I don't understand this punishment for kids...

[Pink and Green Mom]

When my husband coached an all-star 11/12 year old little league team one year, he had the parents run a lap around the field if they brought their kid late. Everyone would get a good chuckle, including the parent running. I remember one guy, the managing partner at a huge law firm in DC, running a lap in his business suit...It was all done in fun and no one seemed to mind.

[Laurie4b]

What are the other options for children who are late?

 

My thoughts:

 

1. Punish all lateness with age-appropriate consequences.

2. Let everyone be late with no consequences.

3. Decide on a case-by-case basis which late player should be punished for lateness.

 

Picking #2 is out, IMO.

#3 has logistical problems and would be difficult for coaches to deal with in the chaos before practices and games...so that is why they (coaches) pick #1.

 

We have participated in MANY team sports. (I've raised 4 sons who all participated) Not ONCE has any coach *punished* any player for being late. The coaches are aware that parents have varying schedules, etc. And being accepting of lateness did not kill anyone, nor did it significantly interfere with practice, nor did it create a rash of lateness. I was a varsity athlete in a large university. I understand the demands of athletics. If this was a team that was at an ultra-competitive level, the expectations would be different. But community league play? Totally unnnecessary. Punishing a 5 year old in a community rec team for being late... no words.

[Laurie4b]

Can you complain to the league anonymously that you were offended to witness this? I think that coach desparately needs to learn the meaning of age appropriate and to be taken down many notches. I would not want such a person(although I am not altogether certain he deserves such a respectful designation) to have acess to my child(ren). I am very strict with my child but that is over the top to the point of abusive!

 

I would complain using my name. A complaint from a bystander (as opposed to the victim) has even higher impact.

[Laurie4b]

Being the parent of kids who play sports and don't drive yet, I have to say that when they get there is not totally dependent on me. They also sometimes dawdle, don't get ready in time, or sometimes just cause a problem before heading out the door. I'm not directly saying whether I agree with this coach, but just pointing out that even a five year old can help or hinder being on time.

 

And the OP said the grandmother got off work late.

[unsinkable]

We have participated in MANY team sports. (I've raised 4 sons who all participated) Not ONCE has any coach *punished* any player for being late. The coaches are aware that parents have varying schedules, etc. And being accepting of lateness did not kill anyone, nor did it significantly interfere with practice, nor did it create a rash of lateness. I was a varsity athlete in a large university. I understand the demands of athletics. If this was a team that was at an ultra-competitive level, the expectations would be different. But community league play? Totally unnnecessary. Punishing a 5 year old in a community rec team for being late... no words.

 

Omgoodness...I am saying what most coaches think, not what I think.

 

It's great that you and yours have had such wonderful experiences. Awesome. I'm thrilled and wish it could be like that for every athlete.

 

ETA: I had said in previous posts that what the coach did to the 5 yo seems excessive. The post you quoted did say "my thoughts" on the top but I meant my thougths on what goes thru coaches' heads.

Edited September 9, 2011 by unsinkable

[In The Great White North]

Obviously, if they work something out with you, that's different than random lateness.

 

That's why the coach has to call and talk to the adult. Some people have no experience with sports teams (especially grandmas, who had precious few sports opportunities as girls) and don't realize how far a simple discussion would go in solving the problem.

[Mom0012]

What are the other options for children who are late?

 

My thoughts:

1. Punish all lateness with age-appropriate consequences.

2. Let everyone be late with no consequences.

3. Decide on a case-by-case basis which late player should be punished for lateness.

 

Picking #2 is out, IMO.

#3 has logistical problems and would be difficult for coaches to deal with in the chaos before practices and games...so that is why they (coaches) pick #1.

 

I agree with this for older kids who have some control over their timeliness. For 5 and 6 year olds, I would pick #2 since whether they are on time or not is totally out of their hands.

 

Lisa

[Stacia]

This is one of the things I hate about organized sports: the idea that they are somehow the most important thing going and life should revolve around them.

 

BINGO!

 

Ultimately, sports like that are a game (and, yes, I'm including professional team sports in this category too) -- a form of entertainment, not necessity. (I realize being physically fit is critical, but that can be achieved w/out team sports.) They're not out curing cancer, preventing nuclear meltdowns, providing organs for transplant, stopping raging fires, etc....

 

It's a game & should be thought of as such.

 

I think the coach should have dropped & done 50 push-ups for having his priorities out of whack.

[Mom0012]

Being the parent of kids who play sports and don't drive yet, I have to say that when they get there is not totally dependent on me. They also sometimes dawdle, don't get ready in time, or sometimes just cause a problem before heading out the door. I'm not directly saying whether I agree with this coach, but just pointing out that even a five year old can help or hinder being on time.

 

I agree with this, but if I had a kid that was routinely causing himself to be late to practice, I would let the coach know so there would be a consequence.

 

In a case where it is the parent who is unable to get the child there for any reason (legitimate or illegitimate), I would not want the child punished.

 

Lisa

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I get that. But 50 pushups? A 5 year old? Overkill. You know what my daughter's sensei does if a kid is late? He tells them they have to stand to the side and not participate in the class for the same number of minutes they were late, and that they can't "blame" their parents...those kids are mostly 8 and up, he's not telling them to do something they're not physically incapable of doing, he's teaching them responsibility even though we the parents ARE the ones who have to get them there, and I'm okay with it. But my 5 y/o would not be able to do 50 pushups. I would not be able to do 50 pushups. I think he's being too harsh.

 

 

Wow! What a fantastic way to illustrate to a kid, "Hey, you know how you just don't have much control over your life? Now you get to be punished for that lack of control! Isn't your life just GREAT?!" :001_huh:

 

I was punished repeatedly for tardiness in middle school (You just gotta love those beatings that leave marks for days, ya know, the kind that beat the Jesus right outta' ya?!). I was in a carpool with other kids. I had ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over getting there on time, but they considered it 'rebellion' on my part. :confused:

[Daisy]

I was punished for being late to school and it was never my fault. It was the fault of the neighbor who drove us. I hated sitting in detention but I learned punctuality. It didn't kill me. LOL.

 

I don't have a problem with making the 5yo do push-ups, but 50 seems like overkill to me.

 

Having the kid sit on the sidelines and miss practice seems WORSE than having him do push-ups.

 

This is probably the ONLY thing I do like about sports. It still believes people should be where they say they are going to be by a specific time. That's called commitment and reliability in my book and is a trait sorely missing in most of society.

[Kalypso]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

 

For a 5 year old? :confused:

 

I think that coach was out of line.

[Heather in Neverland]

Wow! What a fantastic way to illustrate to a kid, "Hey, you know how you just don't have much control over your life? Now you get to be punished for that lack of control! Isn't your life just GREAT?!" :001_huh:

 

I was punished repeatedly for tardiness in middle school (You just gotta love those beatings that leave marks for days, ya know, the kind that beat the Jesus right outta' ya?!). I was in a carpool with other kids. I had ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over getting there on time, but they considered it 'rebellion' on my part. :confused:

 

:iagree:

 

As a principal, I do not punish my elementary students for being tardy. I will, however, call their parents on the carpet for repeated instances. I told one parent if they can't get their kid to school on time then they should find another school. Maybe coaches should do the same.

[SpiritCatcher]

50 does seem like overkill! I doubt the kid was 5/6 if he had to wear pads. In our area that age would be playing flag football. My DS is eight and wears pads this year to play tackle football.

[Runningmom80]

Is that really what organized sports is like at that age? I'm glad we aren't a part of them!

[Sukale]

Overkill for the little guy. I would hope the if the coach is ever late he would do 150 push ups to show the team that he is a fair coach. He would be about 3 times their size so he should do 3 times the push ups right?

[Mama Geek]

50 seems like overkill, but the kid should be able to do it. I was in a beginning karate class about 10 years ago that had all ages in it. There was a kid about that age or maybe a year older in it who was able to do pushups much easier than the adults were. I think we were doing about 20 at a time, but it was easy for him.

[woolybear]

I agree with this, but if I had a kid that was routinely causing himself to be late to practice, I would let the coach know so there would be a consequence.

 

In a case where it is the parent who is unable to get the child there for any reason (legitimate or illegitimate), I would not want the child punished.

 

Lisa

:iagree: I think you're right. If the child routinely caused himself to be late, there should be a consequence or perhaps it would be a sign he/she didn't want to do that sport. If the consequence came from the coach, I think it would be even more effective in getting the message across about the importance (to the team) of being on time.

 

And, yes, if it is the parent who is at fault, that should be handled differently.

 

Honestly, though, I don't think anything should be done if it is a first offense, other than saying a general, "Let's try to be on time."

[Belacqua]

Another concern might be the use of pushups as punishment in the first place.

 

I know it's tradition and even a source of bragging rights. I understand it won't (within reason) harm anybody. But at a time when we're trying to instill a love of exercise and movement in kids, making physical exercise a punishment seems like a questionable idea.

 

There's a volunteer sports coach around here who refuses to use exercise as a correction. He coaches high school age girls, and if somebody is late or lazy or mouthy, he comes up with other punishments. Show up early for the game and line the field. Handle the boring administrative stuff for the next tournament. Clean up the cones after practice.

 

I know Drop and Give Me 20 isn't going anywhere, and we have far greater issues in youth sports, but it still nags at me.

[RanchGirl]

If this were a slightly older child, I might wonder if he ran from the car to the practice, or if he sauntered over like he hadn't a care in the world. That is very rude to the coach and the whole team and is easily within the child's control.

 

I would have no problem with a tardy child around age 10 getting 20 pushups or running the length of the field or something like that. They missed warm ups and need to warm up anyway. And there's no shame in it IMO... coaches who do that will also give assignments like that to the whole team when they aren't paying attention or playing hard or whatever. So all the kids have been through it even if they've never been late.

 

But punishing a 5 year old? With 50 pushups? That's too extreme for me.

 

Furthermore, where do 5 year olds play football? I hope it's flag football! We don't start contact football here until 3rd grade.

[SailorMom]

Re: kid nagging parents:

 

Nagging is probably the wrong word - more like reminding. Parent of busy kids can lose track of all the different schedules - and while it really hasn't been an issue, I expect my kids to remind ME of when we need to leave for activities they chose to do, rather than me having to remind them (obviously not when they were 5 :) )

 

Personally, I've never had a kid late to practice because I'm a bit neurotic and we're always about 10 minutes early. We are not the type of people to be on "homeschool standard time" (someone here made that term up - I love it!)

[Haiku]

This is probably the ONLY thing I do like about sports. It still believes people should be where they say they are going to be by a specific time. That's called commitment and reliability in my book and is a trait sorely missing in most of society.

 

If a five year old is on a team, is the five year old really making a commitment to be somewhere at a certain time? Or is it the parent? Many five year olds can't even tell time. Holding them responsible for getting to practice on time is inappropriate, imo. It's really the parent saying they will get the kid there on time. I seriously doubt that parents whose kids are once or infrequently late to practice are lacking commitment and responsibility. And if they are, how is punishing the child for the parent not living up to their word accomplishing ANYTHING?

 

When my dd17 was in middle school, the bus driver was pissy because she had to drive way out of her way to pick up dd. Many mornings she didn't show up at all. Once she drive right past dd standing there at the bus stop. Each time this occurred, I would call the bus control and they would send another bus to pick up dd. Dd's school would then try to mark her tardy and issue her a tardy slip (three of which would result in detention). They got an earful from me each time, and I finally ripped the principal a new one because the office ladies wouldn't stop harassing my dd. My dd was not responsible for the adult in charge of transportation's problems.

 

If my kids' coach punished my child because I worked late, I would have PLENTY of words for that coach and his superiors.

 

Tara

Edited September 9, 2011 by TaraTheLiberator

[Haiku]

I told my dh, who has been both a soccer and a hockey coach, about this thread, and what he said is, "So ... the lesson they are teaching here is that a game is more important than a family's well-being?" :001_huh:

 

Tara

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I told my dh, who has been both a soccer and a hockey coach, about this thread, and what he said is, "So ... the lesson they are teaching here is that a game is more important than a family's well-being?" :001_huh:

 

Tara

 

 

:iagree: Yes, because if a 5 year old can't get it into his thick skull that athletic practice is more important than Grandma's work schedule then he is clearly headed down a road of ruin. Best to either punish that attitude out of him or get him off the team! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:001_huh:

[Medieval Mom]

I think there's something different about the way men interact with boys. I'm always careful not to let my girly self jump in and save my boys from it. Chickification and all that.

 

I truly hope you're joking. :confused:

 

I can only say that if such a thing happened with my ds, we'd drop the team altogether. Call it bad team spirit if you will, but we have FAR higher priorities than sports. It IS just supposed to be FUN at this age, isn't it?

[Medieval Mom]

I told my dh, who has been both a soccer and a hockey coach, about this thread, and what he said is, "So ... the lesson they are teaching here is that a game is more important than a family's well-being?" :001_huh:

 

Tara

 

:iagree: Smart man. :)

[seraphina]

My dh is a soccer coach and he goes out of his way to help his kids get to practices and games. Sometimes it drives me nuts especially since I end up being a taxi service or end up having extra kids at the house but 99% of the time I am fine with it. He does it because he understands that everyone has other things going on in their lives such as single moms having to work during practice, or evening jobs or whatnot. I think the best coaches are the ones that try to be concerned with their kids not just on the field but off the field.

 

As for a five or a six year old being punished for tardiness, it's a bit extreme. At that age they most likely have little understand of the commitment of team sports. Someone needs to chill and let the kids have fun, that is what team sports should be about at that age.

[justasque]

Another perspective - often the coaches at this level are ordinary dads who somehow got roped into volunteering. They may or may not have *any* clue about kids, age-appropriate expectations, etc. They may or may not have gotten any training before showing up for the first practice. Their only "training" may be 40-year-old memories of their own former high school football practices - not a great model for practice for 5-year-olds.

 

There are fewer and fewer dads who are able to do this community work. Rather than slam, educate and nurture. I think the best way to go is a gentle discussion with the coach which includes:

1: A sincere thanks for volunteering to coach,

2: A positive comment about something (anything!) the coach did well,

3: A gentle thought about 5 year olds, lateness, push-ups, etc.

4: Another sincere expression of thanks and appreciation.

5: All delivered with gentleness and a smile and maybe even cookies.

[Donna]

Another perspective - often the coaches at this level are ordinary dads who somehow got roped into volunteering. They may or may not have *any* clue about kids, age-appropriate expectations, etc. They may or may not have gotten any training before showing up for the first practice. Their only "training" may be 40-year-old memories of their own former high school football practices - not a great model for practice for 5-year-olds. .

 

I think this is definitely the case in this instance.

 

Yes, the tiny little guys here play with pads. My dd is a small just turned 9yo and these kids are way tinier than her.

 

The poor kid was begging his grandmom to hurry when doing up his pads and then ran over to the practice field. No sauntering. It was really sad how worried he was that he was late.

[Barb_]

I think this is definitely the case in this instance.

 

Yes, the tiny little guys here play with pads. My dd is a small just turned 9yo and these kids are way tinier than her.

 

The poor kid was begging his grandmom to hurry when doing up his pads and then ran over to the practice field. No sauntering. It was really sad how worried he was that he was late.

 

Poor baby :sad:

[catz]

Coach sounds like an idiot on a power trip. For a 5 or 6 year old? Really? Ridiculous.

 

:iagree: I think I'd pull my child immediately and find a more "fun" based activity for them. How could it possibly be the 5 year old's fault he was late?

[MamaBearMO]

I'll play devil's advocate, but will first say I do think 50 push-ups is excessive, especially for a 5-year old.

 

My son just turned seven and has, on occasion, been late to karate.

 

His sensei, on the first class explained to all the importance of being on time and that when you're late, you will do "overtime" for the time late, and in that time do push-ups, jumping jacks, etc. for the time you owe him.

 

My son started karate when he was six, and for weeks was not late. Then, one afternoon, he was dilly-dallying and wound up 10-minutes late to the class.

 

I'm pretty sure I looked harried walking in, but he was not late because I made him late, he made himself late. So, not all instances of late are the adults fault. And on that occasion, yes, he did 20 push-ups, 30 jumping jacks, 10 squats and some other stuff that took ten minutes.

 

The second time he dilly-dallied and was six minutes late, same thing, he did his overtime.

 

It only took his sensei two times to reinforce the rule to be on time, my son has never been late since from his own actions. The one time since that he was late and it was my fault, he was five minutes late and I let his sensei know it was my fault and guess what? His sensei wanted me to do push-ups and jumping jacks...and, ya know what? I did do it, to show my son why, barring an emergency, it is important to plan in advance and manage time so you're not late.

 

That's just me though.

[momofkhm]

I have been at baseball practice where the coach tried to make a fool out of a child who showed up late. The dad spoke up and said, "It is my fault, you see, he does not drive. This is the earliest I could get here from work and we can just leave if you'd like." It shut the coach up pretty quickly.:tongue_smilie:

 

Love this one!!!

[Jennifer3141]

:iagree: Yes, because if a 5 year old can't get it into his thick skull that athletic practice is more important than Grandma's work schedule then he is clearly headed down a road of ruin. Best to either punish that attitude out of him or get him off the team! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:001_huh:

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And I hope the grandmother dumps this team because the coach is.such.an.idiot.

[Leav97]

I get that. But 50 pushups? A 5 year old? Overkill. You know what my daughter's sensei does if a kid is late? He tells them they have to stand to the side and not participate in the class for the same number of minutes they were late, and that they can't "blame" their parents...those kids are mostly 8 and up, he's not telling them to do something they're not physically incapable of doing, he's teaching them responsibility even though we the parents ARE the ones who have to get them there, and I'm okay with it. But my 5 y/o would not be able to do 50 pushups. I would not be able to do 50 pushups. I think he's being too harsh.

 

So if a kid is 10 min late to class they learn the importance of being on time by missing more class time. :001_huh:

[*lifeoftheparty*]

This is why we dropped football after Flag. I saw coaches treat little boys like that AND they start practicing in JULY!!!! NO thanks!!

 

And btw, in the Army, for my age range at the time (18-22 years) doing 44 push-ups was "maxing out". Meaning if you managed to do 44 push-ups in two minutes, you got a perfect score for push-ups on your PT test. This was NOT easily accomplished.... I was in the Army for a whole year before I could do it!! That's ridiculous.

[tiredmommyof8]

Coach sounds like an idiot on a power trip. For a 5 or 6 year old? Really? Ridiculous.

 

:iagree: and I am so glad my kids aren't into organized sports because if a coach tried to do that to one of my children because I was running late I'd have him eating the grass :D.

Edited September 10, 2011 by tiredmommyof8
came back to add organized before sports

[blessed2fosteradopt]

Completely inappropriate for a child that age. I would not be happy. :glare:

[Soror]

That makes no sense. A 5 yo cannot tell time and cannot even do 50 pushups, most cannot even do any proper form. I could see if it was an older child but not at that age.

[AngelBee]

 

Yes, kids can't drive themselves to practice but parents do have other options if they are going to be late:

 

1. Carpool.

2. Call the coach and warn him/her the child will be late.

3. Skip practice.

4. Join a different league with different times and expectations.

 

:iagree:

[Danestress]

My boys would have probably come home crowing about their pushups. Making the kid sit out the practice would be a devastating punishment. 50 push ups? Fund and games for my boys.

[Murphy101]

I think the goal of the coach is to get the parents to take the sport serious or drop it. IOW, if Johnny complains about being late to it, mom will either make being late a rarer occurrence bc she doesn't want Johnny to suffer or she will drop it. Either way the coach gets what he wants: kids who show up and parents who can commit to it. IOW, the coach is weeding the team to those who can both commit to making it and those who want to take it serious.

 

Not saying I agree with his methods, just saying I've seen that tactic used plenty of times.

 

Personally, I have never understood the allure of sports so it's all moot to me.

 

That said, no, I don't think the point of something is for it to be fun just because the kid is 5. If I wanted a fun playdate, there are plenty of other such options that are much cheaper for a 5 year old to participate in doing. Sports are competitive by nature and that is how they should be for them to have any purpose. If it isn't a race, then why bother to run? Most people who play want to win. Even 5 year olds know that.

 

I think if the grandma didn't say anything, then I would stay out of it bc it isn't any of my business. *shrug*