obesity in America...what should/could be done?

[Mrs Mungo]

1. Stop subsidizing soy and corn

 

2. More initiatives to send mobile grocery stores into food deserts

 

3. Initiatives to teach people about food-basic cooking lessons in poor areas

 

4. Sin tax on soda and sugary drinks

 

5. I agree with the long recesses

 

6. I agree with subsidized YMCA type places, maybe they could offer stuff on a sliding scale? They could also offer sports.

 

7. I agree with the idea that current local governments favor the suburbs. Cities with pedestrian areas and parks are better health-wise.

 

8. Encourage restaurants to serve normal portion sizes.

[Avila]

You know, raising the insurance rates to try to force people to make healthier choices is so punitive. I don't think we need to make health care LESS available to people who need it.

[MissKNG]

Should anything be done? .

 

I don't think anything can really be done until PEOPLE change their attitudes/thoughts/behaviors. But I think too many people are too comfortable with the "American lifestyle" to want to change.

[zenjenn]

I'm obese. Only by about 10-15 pounds, but I am obese.

 

The responsibility is mine. There is nothing the government can or should do to change it.

[luvnlattes]

Having lived in China in 1985 and then again from 2004/5, I saw the progression. More people have cars now too, or the money for buses, so there's less walking and cycling.

 

I just finished listening to Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes so I have a question about this. He mentioned that societies often have no obesity issues until the western diet (or things like flour and sugar) are introduced into the culture and then become a main staple. I believe one example he gave was Japan.

 

So my question is regarding these "wealthier Chinese." Could they be gaining because they are using the additional money they have to buy more westernized food rather than sticking to the traditional Chinese diet?

[KungFuPanda]

I would like to see health insurance companies increase rates for obese individuals, even children. For an employer, I'd like to see this rate increase go directly to the responsible employees and their family members.

 

This is a bad, bad, BAD idea. Obesity is often a symptom, not the illness itself. If you use the scale to pass judgement, you end up punishing a lot of sick people and putting a strain on people who are already financially strained.

 

My own family is a prime example. I cook from scratch, we exercise. My daughter and I are dancers and my husband teaches aikido. My son, however is becoming increasingly overweight. He has muscular dystrophy and began taking steroids at age 7, so that his heart will stay healthy a little longer and so he can slow the rate at which his muscles lose strength. The steroids cause weight gain. You can't just say "go play outside" to a child who is wheelchair bound! The weight gain is a side effect we live with to give my so. An improved quality of life. My son's medical expenses are already astronomical. To say that families like mine DESERVE to pay more because of a number on a scale is . . . well, I don't think I can describe how I feel about this opinion without getting banned.

[MamaJo]

Some of the obesity "problem" was cause by the government changing the definition on us. I do think it is an issue but I wonder about he size of the issues. I just don't buy that it is an 'epidemic".

 

(giggling at that unintended pun there.)

[Night Elf]

I haven't read any of the replies, but I am against the government issuing regulations to control it. HOWEVER, I think back to what the government DID do to curb smoking in this country and wonder if the same type of things can be done to help the obesity epidemic. Smoking is still legal, but somehow the mindset of the majority of people changed so that it's no longer socially acceptable. How do you change perceptions? However it's done, that's what we should do for obesity.

 

Some restaurants became no smoking establishments and some places have restrictions about how many feet in distance someone needs to be from the establishment in order to smoke. I'm picturing people choosing unhealthy options, for someone's definition of unhealthy, and being required to sit 20 feet away from restaurants. :tongue_smilie: Would the restaurants have to provide tables and service for outside if they didn't have any kind of outside service before? Would they provide umbrellas in case it rained? Oh my, the uproar that would ensue! :lol:

[Laura Corin]

 

So my question is regarding these "wealthier Chinese." Could they be gaining because they are using the additional money they have to buy more westernized food rather than sticking to the traditional Chinese diet?

 

You can buy hamburgers/KFC in China, but the overwhelming majority of people carry on eating Chinese food. The big difference is the amount of meat. Meat used to be more or less a condiment to accompany large amounts of vegetables cooked in (often copious) vegetable oil, with some soy protein and white rice/noodles. Now, meat is becoming a much larger part of the diet - it's something that people think of as a luxury, so they indulge.

 

Children are fed dairy products, but most adults don't drink milk, and cheese is rare in most areas.

 

Laura

[In The Great White North]

I just finished listening to Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes so I have a question about this. He mentioned that societies often have no obesity issues until the western diet (or things like flour and sugar) are introduced into the culture and then become a main staple. I believe one example he gave was Japan.

Interesting thought. What about sumo wrestlers? Weren't they rather obese before a western diet was introduced to Japan?

 

I'm in the stop subsidizing HFCS camp. It's in everything, where you don't expect it. We get way more HFCS than we think we do, even cooking mostly from scratch

 

European vegies were more expensive than their pasta and bread just like ours. Protein (cheese, meat) was astronomical.

Edited August 18, 2011 by In The Great White North

[LibraryLover]

I disagree with most people about what real food is. Low fat cheese? Take out the milk and add what? Potato starch? Pam spray instead of olive oil. I couldn't .

 

Free Ys would be good, but they might ask us to bring our own tissues and hand sanitizer. Then we could have threads about how much stuff we have to supply the free Y programs. Hee hee.

[LibraryLover]

Some of the obesity "problem" was cause by the government changing the definition on us. I do think it is an issue but I wonder about he size of the issues. I just don't buy that it is an 'epidemic".

 

(giggling at that unintended pun there.)

 

I actually partly agree with this. I do think the morbidly obese population is much greater, but I do wonder if we are overstating some of the dangers of a few extra pounds. Of course, one can't argue with the increase in diabetes. I think that is lifestyle-- HFCS, soda etc.

 

It's a pretty darn complicated issue.

[shinyhappypeople]

Our insurance has always been through dh's employer and the only question asked is about tobacco use. I don't know of any that charge more based on obesity. (and I don't think they should) I know so many people that have been happy about the new healthcare regulations stipulating companies can't deny based on pre-existing conditions so I find it interesting some feel it is ok to raise rates due to size.

 

I was thinking about individual coverage. Group coverage is a whole different ball game.

[In The Great White North]

Some of the obesity "problem" was cause by the government changing the definition on us. I do think it is an issue but I wonder about he size of the issues. I just don't buy that it is an 'epidemic".

 

 

I don't know what the government used to consider obese, but I do know sizes have changed dramatically. Old patterns size 14 would be about a 6 now.

[LibraryLover]

What about free liposuction clinics?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

J/k! We have easy access to cheaper food and we are no longer a nation of physical laborers. Desk jobs and frequent meals have contributed ton our changing bodies. Kids used to get on their bikes and leave the house for the whole day. Did Andy wonder where Opie was all day? Opie was free range, and today some would call that abuse. Did Aunt Bee concern herself with the heat of summer? Call him in to watch a movie mid afternoon?

[4wildberrys]

Get rid of High Fructose Corn Syrup and have Govt quit subsidizing grains and calling them 'healthy' foods. Grains, and everything made from them, are fattening. More so than any other foods that are traditionally blamed for causing obesity, such as dairy or meat fats.

[MIch elle]

Watch the movie "Fat Head" http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/'>http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/'>http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/'>http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/

 

Read his blog - http://www.fathead-movie.com/

[MamaJo]

Watch the movie "Fat Head" http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/'>http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/

 

Read his blog - http://www.fathead-movie.com/

 

 

I saw that and it caused me to reevaluate my thinking.

[phathui5]

If a family is on WIC or welfare, I'd like to see some monetary "incentive" for losing weight there as well.

 

Or maybe being able to they could contract with Weight Watchers to hold meetings at the WIC clinic.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

What do you think could/ought to be done about obesity in the US?

 

Should anything be done? What might it be? Or, is this just a trend that will have to work itself out?

 

The more I read about it, the more alarming the numbers seem (i.e. % of kids with or expected to develop type 2 diabetes), but I don't see how the government could do much about it.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts or reading suggestions on this.

 

When we lived in Germany, road side fruit stands were a common feature. In rural areas, they were independent stands outside the farms. Drop your money in the box and take the eggs or apples. (I saw this a couple times in Japan too.) In residential neighborhoods, it was common to have a stand at the side of the street headed into the neighborhood, where you would naturally WALK past it on your way home from the busstop. These stands were out from early spring until fall with selections that ranged with the seasons. In general, I saw far more appreciation of fresh fruit and vegetables than in the US. (I suspect that there are zoning or regulatory restrictions that prevent a lot of these showing up in the US. We also don't tend to buy food daily, make from scratch or just walk past any place that would have a stand.)

 

Our public transportation is park and ride focused. It could be far more train and bus interrelated. Similarly, I think that parking in downtown European areas was scarer and more expensive, which also encouraged use of public transportation. On the other hand, it was also much simpler (for example, you could buy a monthly pass that was good for unlimited riding), safer and far cleaner. Oh, and did I mention that buses and trains ran on time. I'm still flumoxed by bus stops in my area that have no trash cans, no benches, no sun/rain shelter (because these require a full environmental impact statement as if they were building a building, not a lean to) and no posted map/route identifier/schedule.

 

Get rid of school specific bus transportation. Use the money saved to subsidize student transportation on public transportation (thus helping to make the transport available all the time). Do not allow high school students to drive to school (unless they have after school jobs or are dual enrolled in college). Schools do not need to have huge parking lots.

 

Zone in such a way that encourages mixed use developments. There isn't a reason that a big box store has to be a stand alone building. There could be apartments or offices in a multi story building with the grocery, electronics, department store in the bottom level. This makes public transport work better by keeping city centers smaller.

 

Put recess back in schools. Make school and public playgrounds better by making it harder to sue for playground accidents. It is always a drag to come back to the US and see what passes for a playground here. In Europe and Japan, many more playgrounds were what would be classed as "adventure" playgrounds here, with zip lines, giant moon bounce areas, spider climbing zones and climbing walls. Also, we often saw school groups doing field trips using public transport and walking, rather than being bussed around.

 

School lunches should be made up of real food. Soup, salad, real vegetables, etc. Not hot dogs, burgers, and nachos. It's not that children are physically unable to eat real, healthy food, it is that we train them to prefer (and then to insist upon) junk. If they are going to eat junk, let the families be the ones to pay for it and provide it. If the gov't is going to provide the food via subsidized school lunches, let it be something reasonably healthy.

 

I don't think that we need gov't to dictate what food is sold or eaten. But they should be doing a better job on the gov't functions (like transport) and have a "do no harm" approach to others (like the school lunches).

 

But people also need to be making proper choices in food, exercise, and activity. Let you kids play outside more and allow less time on electronics.

[4wildberrys]

Watch the movie "Fat Head" http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/'>http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/

 

Read his blog - http://www.fathead-movie.com/

 

Yep---eat those 10-12 servings of grains a day, limit your meats and fats and hence, the explosion of obesity! Add to that the zillions of additives and other products made from those subsidized grains grown in ridiculous abundance---and avoiding grains/carbs becomes a full time job. :glare:

[AuntieM]

Two words:

 

personal responsibility

[In The Great White North]

 

When we lived in Germany, road side fruit stands were a common feature. In rural areas, they were independent stands outside the farms. Drop your money in the box and take the eggs or apples.

We have these, up here in the boonies. You have to be near farms to find them. In Europe, farms are 100 feet from cities, not 100 miles, and zoning laws don't prohibit livestock in small towns so you can easily find more farm stands.

[Snickerdoodle]

Two words:

 

personal responsibility

 

:iagree:

[Snickerdoodle]

 

In Europe, farms are 100 feet from cities, not 100 miles, so you can easily find more farm stands.

That's right. We used to ride our bike from the urban area to the farm to pick up goods and chitty chat with the farmers.

[LibraryLover]

On my street alone, there are at least 4 of us selling eggs, fruits, veggies on the honor system-- with jars holding change etc. It's very low volume, but it's quite amazing what's available. There are two larger stands I can vist daily near me as well. There are more if I want to travel a few more minutes. I am so grateful.

 

Winter is emotionally difficult. I have to look at all the sad produce trucked and flown in from far away. Thank goodness for my chickens and eggs. Thank goodness for the CSA grass fed cow in Jan. I 'd rather mostly rely on local 'fats' and whatever we've managed to can and store-- eggs, chicken, beef. To me, that's real food. I am not able to be self -reliant, and I do have to go to the regular market, especially in winter. In summer, it's rare that I do. I wish I could raise my own deli cheese! lol

 

I love summer and the variety of fresh fruits and veggies that are available here. Imagine what people in longer growing seasons (blight, borers, bad weather etc stay away!) could do if they learned more of the skills that were common to our gparents and ggparents. Indo think people are relearning these things. The renaissance of urban gardens and mad city chickens is proof of that.

Edited August 18, 2011 by LibraryLover

[msjones]

Two words:

 

personal responsibility

 

I find myself wondering how many Americans are the personal responsibility types.

[AuntPol]

I don't want more government intervention but if they stopped intervening in the ways that are destructive, it would be nice (subsidies for corn and soy, the ridiculous food/nutrition chart, farm raids, basing nutrition on who can give the biggest political donation...)

 

It's hard to agree on what is healthy and what is not. I have seen people saying they struggle because low-fat cheese, etc is not available. However, I have lost weight since switching from skim milk to 2% (and full cream in my coffee), full fat cheeses, 2% Fage (only because full fat isn't available here), cooking with bacon grease, real butter and coconut oil instead of vegetable oil or margarine, and skipping grains and sugar as much as possible. My fat intake is 50-60% of my daily calories!!! Not only have I lost weight, my cholesterol has lowered, my hair looks better, my skin has cleared up (especially those dry rough elbows), and no more acid reflux. I used to be tempermental and all around not nice if I didn't eat every 3 hours. Now if I skip a meal or am late, I'm okay.

[Jennifer3141]

Get rid of High Fructose Corn Syrup and have Govt quit subsidizing grains and calling them 'healthy' foods. Grains, and everything made from them, are fattening. More so than any other foods that are traditionally blamed for causing obesity, such as dairy or meat fats.

 

End gov't subsidies on soy and corn and have farmers start growing FOOD again.

 

Quit playing with the gene pool of plants. There's a reason why foods have different nutritional requirements. We don't need more "healthy" corn. We need less corn syrup.

 

Bring back sidewalks.

 

Stop worrying about the stupid test taking and have farmers come into classroooms (with the parents of the students - the horror!) and teach people about zucchini, muskmelons, and tomatoes.

 

Tax the crud out of cigarettes. You want to smoke? Then pay an extra $3 a pack for the health consequences of it. And then do the same to Twinkies.

 

Heck, there are days when I want a Twinkie. But a Twinkie should not cost LESS than an organic apple.

 

Quit spraying the crapola out of everything we grow. We find out that those chemicals kill people and the environment more and more every darn day.

 

Pay people a livable wage who pick and grow our food. Make feeding the world decent, real food a priority. Make growing food an honorable task and don't treat farmers like they are dirty.

 

End giant agri-business. They care about profit, not people.

 

In other words, radically attack the way we live and eat. Simple, no?:D

[WeeBeaks]

Stop government subsidies of corn, dairy and meat. Stop GMOs like Europe.

 

I think the above would help on the HFCS and garbage in our food supply. I didn't use to believe that would do much but have been reading extensively on problems in our food supply, and I believe the above contributes to a lot of food allergies and obesity.

 

If subsidies are not a factor, I think the market will equalize where healthy unprocessed stuff might become less expensive, therefore more desirable. I don't know on that though as it seems many people are pretty used to everything in a box. I used to eat more things in a box when I was younger for sure, and my family ate boxed this and that.

 

I think change is already on the way though. More and more people know about problems, and there is a huge surge in backyard farms, urban farms, community agriculture, awareness of food supply issues. I see that gaining momentum.

 

I don't believe in tying weight to insurance premiums at all. My MIL has been tiny tiny her whole life, and all she eats basically is sugar (jelly beans, 1-3 at a time, day and night). Her health is miserable, and she is on a multitude of medications and sees specialists it seems daily. My own mother is obese but I don't think she even goes to the doctor once a year and doesn't complain of much of anything in the way of health. There are too many factors other than weight, and unless we want to base premiums on a very very thorough physical [i don't!], I just don't want to go there.

[justamouse]

Two words:

 

personal responsibility

 

 

How can a person be personally responsible when they live in the inner city, can't afford to get out and don't ahve access to a flipping vegetable?

 

Everyone who DOES have those choices says, "Personal Responsibility" like it's a moral choice, but they've never even been faced with the problems many of these families function under every day.

 

Go be a Big Sister to an inner city kid, look at their life and then decide if it's 'personal responsibility'.

 

Here-for the morally upstanding. Front page of our county paper today, in RURAL NJ, where there are farms everywhere- 1/3 of the county's children live UNDER The poverty level. 1/3. Thier parents are relying on food banks, WIC, and food stamps to feed them. They are commuting, living in one of the most expensive states in the union, and are not making enough to keep afloat. Look them in the face and say Personal Responsibility.

 

They cannot AFFORD the farm produce that may be 1/2 mile from their house. Eggs at the stand are 4 bucks a dozen, farm raised chickens are 16 dollars a bird. Tomatoes (and we live in the tomato state) are over 2 bucks a pound. A cantaloupe is 2.99, milk at Walmart is 3.80. I told everyone in another thread that one parent I know had to spend over 600 in school supplies. HOW do they squeeze that out of 22k a year when RENT is over 1k a month? Car insurance is at least --I don't even know because I'm older and never had a point so mine is 250 a month. Gas to commute is so expensive that many people have seriously considered quitting jobs and all summer they've had to pay for daycare.

 

Personal responsibility-what a high and mighty thing to say.

[4wildberrys]

How can a person be personally responsible when they live in the inner city, can't afford to get out and don't ahve access to a flipping vegetable?

 

Everyone who DOES have those choices says, "Personal Responsibility" like it's a moral choice, but they've never even been faced with the problems many of these families function under every day.

 

Go be a Big Sister to an inner city kid, look at their life and then decide if it's 'personal responsibility'.

 

Here-for the morally upstanding. Front page of our county paper today, in RURAL NJ, where there are farms everywhere- 1/3 of the county's children live UNDER The poverty level. 1/3. Thier parents are relying on food banks, WIC, and food stamps to feed them. They are commuting, living in one of the most expensive states in the union, and are not making enough to keep afloat. Look them in the face and say Personal Responsibility.

 

They cannot AFFORD the farm produce that may be 1/2 mile from their house. Eggs at the stand are 4 bucks a dozen, farm raised chickens are 16 dollars a bird. Tomatoes (and we live in the tomato state) are over 2 bucks a pound. A cantaloupe is 2.99, milk at Walmart is 3.80. I told everyone in another thread that one parent I know had to spend over 600 in school supplies. HOW do they squeeze that out of 22k a year when RENT is over 1k a month? Car insurance is at least --I don't even know because I'm older and never had a point so mine is 250 a month. Gas to commute is so expensive that many people have seriously considered quitting jobs and all summer they've had to pay for daycare.

 

Personal responsibility-what a high and mighty thing to say.

 

:iagree: We see it all the time in our ONE grocery store. We live in the poorest county in our state, which is also VERY remote with a 3 month growing season. EVERYTHING has to be shipped in. Add shipping to that----food is outrageous. We just spent $190 at the store for our family of 4 on JUST fruits, veggies and eggs---no meat. You look at the less healthy, obese people using their SNAP card and see how far just $100 goes for sugar laden, chemical additive laden grain foods. It will buy you twice as much. Why? Govt subsidized grains!!

[Hunter]

Obesity is often a symptom, not the illness itself. If you use the scale to pass judgement, you end up punishing a lot of sick people and putting a strain on people who are already financially strained.

 

 

Steroids, Insulin, psychiatric drugs, insomnia and impaired mobility are leading causes of obesity. Do you really want to limit access to health care, for the people on these drugs and with these conditions?

 

Well...at least that would cut down on the overmedication of psychiatric patients :-0 And they WOULD lose weight :-0 Over medication of psychiatric patients is listed as the biggest mental health care crisis of our time. Many of the common drugs shut off the satiety area of the brain, increase impulsivity, drop blood pressure, and cause fatigue and/or insomnia. They are a recipe for obesity. The drugs are tools that are vastly overused and misused, and the patients are not always legally allowed to stop taking these drugs, even if they understand the side effects.

 

It's not fair to judge PEOPLE by what is in their shopping cart. Some of them are doing the BEST they can. As anyone can see from my avatar, I don't suffer from obesity, but I have friends who do and it's torture for them, especially the ones court ordered to take drugs that cause the condition.

 

Assistance not punishment is the way to attack any health crisis, and obesity is a health crisis. Let's stop judging and punishing. Lets give :grouphug: instead.

[justamouse]

I get what you are saying about the urban wastelands with nothing but a gas station. I agree there is a problem there. Grocery stores are in the business to make money, and urban areas are apparently not profitable places to put grocery stores in poor areas. I don't claim to know the solution to that problem. However, there are plenty of people who have plenty of access to better foods who choose to eat trash and sit on their behinds. I am related to them. The only thing that will improve their lives is personal responsibility. As in, put down the Coke and the doughnut, get off your duff, and exercise. The responsibility to make that choice lies solely with them.

 

I think that amount of people who are obese in that situation is lower than the obese amount that live in the cities.

[LibraryLover]

I'd like to insert a little bit of good news. It's not extraordinary, but it is an illustration of goodness and hope.

 

There are several organic farms/ large gardens in my town donating a good amount of produce to local shelters and food programs. These programs take this abundance of food and distribute it. It doesn't get wasted. People want it. They are excited about it. My mother's church distributes some of this food, and people do not turn up their noses. Everyone, even the poor, like real tomatoes, some fresh green beans etc. I don't like to hear people be so negative and assume anything about anyone. You really don't know what is going on in people's lives, or their history of food or even food prep.

 

My youngest son works at one of these gardens, and is very proud of the amount of food picked. He loves hearing how happy people are to get it. There is also a private school here which produces and amazing amount of donated food.

 

There are many good people doing good things. I think one might be surprised at what could be going on in your area --things you might not know.

Edited August 18, 2011 by LibraryLover

[AuntieM]

How can a person be personally responsible when they live in the inner city, can't afford to get out and don't ahve access to a flipping vegetable?

 

Everyone who DOES have those choices says, "Personal Responsibility" like it's a moral choice, but they've never even been faced with the problems many of these families function under every day.

 

Go be a Big Sister to an inner city kid, look at their life and then decide if it's 'personal responsibility'.

 

Here-for the morally upstanding. Front page of our county paper today, in RURAL NJ, where there are farms everywhere- 1/3 of the county's children live UNDER The poverty level. 1/3. Thier parents are relying on food banks, WIC, and food stamps to feed them. They are commuting, living in one of the most expensive states in the union, and are not making enough to keep afloat. Look them in the face and say Personal Responsibility.

 

They cannot AFFORD the farm produce that may be 1/2 mile from their house. Eggs at the stand are 4 bucks a dozen, farm raised chickens are 16 dollars a bird. Tomatoes (and we live in the tomato state) are over 2 bucks a pound. A cantaloupe is 2.99, milk at Walmart is 3.80. I told everyone in another thread that one parent I know had to spend over 600 in school supplies. HOW do they squeeze that out of 22k a year when RENT is over 1k a month? Car insurance is at least --I don't even know because I'm older and never had a point so mine is 250 a month. Gas to commute is so expensive that many people have seriously considered quitting jobs and all summer they've had to pay for daycare.

 

Personal responsibility-what a high and mighty thing to say.

 

 

Ouch!

 

But I totally get your point.

 

Look, I think this is a complex problem. It's a battle with many fronts. But follow me for a minute....

 

IF those who were able to exercise personal responsibility actually did so, is it possible we might see results like:

 

A decreased demand for junky food products?

 

Lower health care costs all around?

 

Physicians and researchers who had more time to devote to indigent care?

 

A healthier general population that has more energy, time and concern for the welfare of those who genuinely need a hand?

 

Researchers and scientists who - instead of developing new drugs to treat indulgence-induced illness - can devote time to developing healthier low cost food products, farming and distribution methods?

 

My list could get longer, but I am already late for an appointment!

 

I want you to understand that when I use the term "personal responsibility," I do not mean "I-got-mine-you-can-fend-for-yourself" thinking and actions. But if the notion of genuine personal responsibility were widespread, I think that would really change things! I mean, isn't that the whole meaning behind the old give a man a fish versus teach a man to fish cliche?

 

I *wish* there were an easy solution. I am sorry to have come across as high and mighty. (And I would like you to know I have and do work among those entrapped in the urban core who have very limited choices.) But this - the theater of encouraging personal responsibility - is the front where I find myself most able to engage the battle. And I believe it can contribute to making a difference.

 

(I really like you, justamouse, and very much appreciate your POV. Pax?)

[DusksAngel]

How can a person be personally responsible when they live in the inner city, can't afford to get out and don't ahve access to a flipping vegetable?

 

Everyone who DOES have those choices says, "Personal Responsibility" like it's a moral choice, but they've never even been faced with the problems many of these families function under every day.

 

Go be a Big Sister to an inner city kid, look at their life and then decide if it's 'personal responsibility'.

 

Here-for the morally upstanding. Front page of our county paper today, in RURAL NJ, where there are farms everywhere- 1/3 of the county's children live UNDER The poverty level. 1/3. Thier parents are relying on food banks, WIC, and food stamps to feed them. They are commuting, living in one of the most expensive states in the union, and are not making enough to keep afloat. Look them in the face and say Personal Responsibility.

 

They cannot AFFORD the farm produce that may be 1/2 mile from their house. Eggs at the stand are 4 bucks a dozen, farm raised chickens are 16 dollars a bird. Tomatoes (and we live in the tomato state) are over 2 bucks a pound. A cantaloupe is 2.99, milk at Walmart is 3.80. I told everyone in another thread that one parent I know had to spend over 600 in school supplies. HOW do they squeeze that out of 22k a year when RENT is over 1k a month? Car insurance is at least --I don't even know because I'm older and never had a point so mine is 250 a month. Gas to commute is so expensive that many people have seriously considered quitting jobs and all summer they've had to pay for daycare.

 

Personal responsibility-what a high and mighty thing to say.

 

:iagree: But it's not just inner cities. We live in a poor part of the state that is rural. As in the closest grocery store with organic produce is miles away. WIC only allows for the cheapest of brands, Food Stamps don't cover near enough to actually feed a family 3 meals a day, much less healthy ones. Most of the stores here carry what's cheap, because that's all that people can afford. We had a major employeer (for our area) leave, so there are many people out of work who were barely making it on minimum wage.

[Slartibartfast]

[

Ouch!

 

But I totally get your point.

 

Look, I think this is a complex problem. It's a battle with many fronts. But follow me for a minute....

 

IF those who were able to exercise personal responsibility actually did so, is it possible we might see results like:

 

A decreased demand for junky food products?

 

Lower health care costs all around?

 

Physicians and researchers who had more time to devote to indigent care?

 

A healthier general population that has more energy, time and concern for the welfare of those who genuinely need a hand?

 

Researchers and scientists who - instead of developing new drugs to treat indulgence-induced illness - can devote time to developing healthier low cost food products, farming and distribution methods?

 

My list could get longer, but I am already late for an appointment!

 

I want you to understand that when I use the term "personal responsibility," I do not mean "I-got-mine-you-can-fend-for-yourself" thinking and actions. But if the notion of genuine personal responsibility were widespread, I think that would really change things! I mean, isn't that the whole meaning behind the old give a man a fish versus teach a man to fish cliche?

 

I *wish* there were an easy solution. I am sorry to have come across as high and mighty. (And I would like you to know I have and do work among those entrapped in the urban core who have very limited choices.) But this - the theater of encouraging personal responsibility - is the front where I find myself most able to engage the battle. And I believe it can contribute to making a difference.

 

(I really like you, justamouse, and very much appreciate your POV. Pax?)

 

All those things are possible but people do not realize the very real issues the poor faces when preparing meals and the choices they have.

 

We don't live in a bad area but I do live more "in the city" I have to drive twenty minutes to get to a store that sells organic produce. I go there for dairy alternatives since I cannot eat it.

 

One problem is urban sprawl. The nicer areas get further and further away while the inner cities lose choices. There are a lot of boarded up shops in the same town as brand new shopping malls.

 

It has to be more than just personal choices because unempowered people are the ones who are facing this crisis. We as a community need to make better choices.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Sis

[Mynyel]

I see children ages 10-12 on an almost daily basis who weigh as much or more than I do (I'm 5' 5" and weigh 128). I see adults who are so fat they have to ride the carts through the grocery stores, adults who wheeze while waddling down the aisles (take a look in their carts...it's all processed junk food).

 

 

I was 5'3" and 135 pounds when I was 17. I was considered overweight and should have lost about 10-15 pounds. You know what my waist size was? 22 inches. Yes, 22 inches, I had to have my choir dress in school altered because it was to big in the waist.

 

This is a sore subject for me.

 

Although I do not appear so, owing to careful selection of clothing, by technical definition, I am just over the borderline into obesity. I eat carefully, purchase "whole foods", and cook our meals from scratch without resorting to butter, margarine, meatfats, and other standard "try to avoid" ingredients. For nearly 2/3 of the year, we are vegan (from religious parameters).

 

My mind and body shut down nearly completely when the temperature rises above 75 deg., and I'm stuck living in North Texas.

 

Insomnia contributes to weight gain, I have learned. So does stress, which always runs high for several reasons. So does fibromyalgia.

 

Sustained and vigorous exercise is nearly impossible because of a permanently injured leg. Whenever I can, I walk.

 

I do the best that I can within the limitations, but do not enjoy my "physical status" one bit.

 

Hurl all the harsh words you like; they won't change the hand I have been dealt.

 

I don't have an injury but I understand the heat thing. I can't stand walking in the heat, it is physically tiring and basically doesn't do me any good. I have no medical issues, that I am aware of, but I need to lose weight. I have an elliptical I use it, periodically, but to no avail!

 

I am not a fan of government intervention in general, but if I "had" to propose some gov't intervention it would look something like this.

 

Clean, modern, YMCA-type facilities open and free to the public, giving free classes (yoga, swimming, etc). Clean, safe jogging and walking tracks widely available. Free sports leagues.

 

Subsidies given to fruit and veggie production and distribution (as opposed to dairy and corn).

 

Free access to nutritionists, free literature available in libraries.

 

Longer periods of recess in school... when I was a kid we had more than an hour of recess a day.

 

Yes this! I don't know of anyone that would mind tax dollars going to this. Provided they didn't end up like all the other government facilities. Run down, broken and unsafe.

 

I'd like to see sports actually an attainable possibility for the average family.

 

So many sports and rec activities are so expensive that the average family can't afford them, esp if they have more than 1 child.

 

Oh Imp you are so right!!!

 

I saw a woman here locally write check for over $700 (!!!) to have her daughter play soccer. This was the going rate as well, there was another family I know that said it was about $800 for their daughter to play too, same league. It is outrageous that people will pay that amount for the kids to play a sport!

 

When I was in high school in the 80s, we were required to take P.E. every school year. But now? The county we live in requires one year of P.E./Health. The kids take P.E. one semester and Health in the other. So basically, the high schoolers here get 15 weeks of physical education out of 4 years of high school.

 

P.E. in the elementary school is 30 mins. once a week. The most active activity during recess is the swingset. There isn't time for any type of organized games. That is left to the P.E. period each week.

 

I don't know about the middle school because my children didn't attend.

 

When my daughter was in PS it was like this, PE once a week and recess every other day.

 

I had recess 3 times a day growing up. Mid-morning, Lunch and Mid-afternoon. It is appalling that they have taken away recess for kids to try and stuff more into their heads. That doesn't seem to be working either!

 

If by "something should be done" you mean the government should be involved, then, no, I don't think so.

 

Amen, I resent anyone telling me they know better for my family when they don't know my family at all.

 

While I do think that there is a weight problem in N. America (not just the US), I am not compelled to alarm by the statistics. I have long thought that measuring obesity by the BMI was woefully inaccurate. It does not take into account so many factors about a person -- from build to general health.

 

There is a recent study on the Edmonton Obesity Staging System that is very interesting. It talks about measuring a number of factors to determine someone's level of obesity, not just BMI. It then addresses a protocol for doctors to use in treating obesity in patients. It is important to note that this is a Canadian study and is therefore more interested in preventative treatments than conventional US treatments. Average Canadians access their physicians far more frequently than average Americans simply because we can. This means our GPs have the opportunity to offer preventative treatments before a health issue reaches critical status. The average American will wait until a serious issue arises before seeking treatment because they have to deal with things like co-pays and deductibles and possible increases/losses of insurance for having made a claim.

 

I believe that, especially for obesity, prevention is the key to reducing the health risks of obesity. Trying to treat the health complications later is a never-ending battle that consumes far more resources. I believe that access to preventative care will go a long way addressing the issue.

 

But... I realize there are multiple factors contributing to the obesity issue. The health care angle is just one that I find particularly important.

 

Audrey you are so right. Like I said above with a 22" waist I was still considered overweight because I was 135 pounds. Well I also have good German stock in me and I have a very large bone structure.

 

My daughter has inherited that same frame. So if I was to even try to get to where the charts want me I would be starving myself and running 10 miles every day. Even them I might not get there.

 

They need to change the wording of we are an obese country to we are an unhealthy country. You can be stick thin and more unhealthy than someone overweight. We need to focus on health issues and how our bodies feel as opposed to how they look.

 

Yes, I am overweight, By about 40-50 pounds. I don't have high blood pressure. My cholesterol is low. I am not diabetic and have had no diabetic symptoms. I have only had to go to the doctor three times in the last 14 years (besides pregnancies). Once was for a uterine infection after having my daughter, that was not weight related. Once for an ovarian cyst that burst, again not weight related and the last time for kidney stones, which are not weight related.

 

So am I automatically unhealthy because I am overweight? I don't think so. A healthy weight is as individual as a fingerprint. Everyone is different. We may share some swirls but we are all different.

 

I resent anyone who thinks I need to be a certain weight to be healthy or look a certain way to look healthy. It just isn't that simple.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Mynyel
Blasted typos :P

[Orthodox6]

I don't think that I yet have noticed any comments about the strangle-hold grip on Congress by the agribusiness lobbying interests.

 

Whole foods, organic foods, healthy foods can be difficult-to-impossible to locate in rural areas, very small towns, and in inner-city neighborhoods. When they are available, the consumer costs often are astronomically high, owing to "economy of scale" related to lower sales volume.

[JenC3]

I am not a fan of government intervention in general, but if I "had" to propose some gov't intervention it would look something like this.

 

Clean, modern, YMCA-type facilities open and free to the public, giving free classes (yoga, swimming, etc). Clean, safe jogging and walking tracks widely available. Free sports leagues.

 

Subsidies given to fruit and veggie production and distribution (as opposed to dairy and corn).

 

Free access to nutritionists, free literature available in libraries.

 

Longer periods of recess in school... when I was a kid we had more than an hour of recess a day.

:iagree:

[Peela]

I would like to see the government subsidising organic farms, ethical farming techniques, sustainable farming, and farming of a variety of healthy foods - rather than subsidising mass production of wheat, corn, pigs etc.

Its time the whole farming industry changed from the bottom up. They are going broke here anyway, from an unsustainable way of farming for generations. Now the land is full of salt due to too much deforestation and draining the aquifers, the farmers are going bankrupt due to debt, low rainfall and long term misuse of their land.

 

There are no quick fixes. We have an abundance of cheap foods that are not good for us, and its expensive to buy healthy food that is grown ethically. That's a bit crazy especially when the government subsidizes the former, not the latter.

[Annie Laurie]

The best thing our government could do would be to regulate what can be called food. No more genetically modified crops. No more subsidizing corn and soy crops as though they are THE most important thing in our supermarkets.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

Our food system in the U.S. is so corrupt and broken. I'd love to see factory farms go away forever. There is a difference in truly free-range, grass-fed meat and eggs, and the stuff that comes out of factory farms, where the animals get no exercise, are fed corn, they are pumped full of medications, and then the meat is treated with chemicals.

 

I can't say enough about how hard it's been to even find humanely raised, healthy meat, in my area, and how expensive it is. Most Americans don't even realize what's in the animal products they put in their bodies, and most can't afford to do anything about it.

[LisaKinVA]

While I do think that there is a weight problem in N. America (not just the US), I am not compelled to alarm by the statistics. I have long thought that measuring obesity by the BMI was woefully inaccurate. It does not take into account so many factors about a person -- from build to general health.

 

When the government switched to BMI to define "obesity" the country essentially developed an "obesity" problem overnight.

 

I'm one of those muscular builds. At 18% body fat, I'm just barely in the normal range for my height. For my age now, I should be about 23% body fat... numbers which keep me squarely in the "overweight" category. In the military, I would have to be "taped off" in order to get a more accurate reading of my body-fat, because I would fail the BMI test pretty miserably.

 

Apparently, I have passed those genes on to a few of my children.

 

I just took my boys in for their annual check ups. Both of these boys are built like bricks. My older boy does have a little pudge around his middle (which is normal for him right before a growth spurt...), he is considered "obese." He is on the year-round swim team, runs, and does basic calesthenics with mom. He is fit... eats a healthy diet, but just has a little padding that he'll grow out of (probably this fall if old patterns hold true...)

 

My younger son is actually considered MORE overweight than my older son. He weighs more than 70% of boys his age(!), meanwhile, he is in the 45th percentile for height. However, this son loves to go shirtless, as he sports a six-pack. He is lean, lean, lean. He also swims, runs, eats a healthy diet, and can still wear a size 6 blue jean, and is wearing a size 5 swimsuit (he's 8, and average height). He is all muscle (if I had to guess, less than 7% body fat).

 

So, by the BMI statistics, I have overweight/obese children. But, if you actually looked at their body-fat percentages and health profile they would NEVER be considered unhealthy OR overweight.

[MIch elle]

I find myself wondering how many Americans are the personal responsibility types.

 

Children don't have a choice - I didn't when I was young. We were poor and ate poorly. My mother ate lots of sweets. Junk food was normal as was eating vegs out of a can.

[justamouse]

Ouch!

 

But I totally get your point.

 

Look, I think this is a complex problem. It's a battle with many fronts. But follow me for a minute....

 

IF those who were able to exercise personal responsibility actually did so, is it possible we might see results like:

 

A decreased demand for junky food products?

 

Lower health care costs all around?

 

Physicians and researchers who had more time to devote to indigent care?

 

A healthier general population that has more energy, time and concern for the welfare of those who genuinely need a hand?

 

Researchers and scientists who - instead of developing new drugs to treat indulgence-induced illness - can devote time to developing healthier low cost food products, farming and distribution methods?

 

My list could get longer, but I am already late for an appointment!

 

I want you to understand that when I use the term "personal responsibility," I do not mean "I-got-mine-you-can-fend-for-yourself" thinking and actions. But if the notion of genuine personal responsibility were widespread, I think that would really change things! I mean, isn't that the whole meaning behind the old give a man a fish versus teach a man to fish cliche?

 

I *wish* there were an easy solution. I am sorry to have come across as high and mighty. (And I would like you to know I have and do work among those entrapped in the urban core who have very limited choices.) But this - the theater of encouraging personal responsibility - is the front where I find myself most able to engage the battle. And I believe it can contribute to making a difference.

 

(I really like you, justamouse, and very much appreciate your POV. Pax?)

 

I totally get your point, and I'm sorry. I did read your response as one of those, "suck it up and pull up your bootstraps," posts. :grouphug: Pax.

 

I was a Big Sister for years, too, so the underprivledged are something personal to me.

[butterflymommy]

The main problem is people choosing convenience foods over foods they have to cook, and eating too much sugar. There are many, many people who have every opportunity to buy good food and choose not to.

 

In the documentary "Fat Head," didn't he mention that the government did a study to try to figure out how to get people to eat more vegetables-- and they found the only way to do it would be to PAY people to eat them?

 

I am the only person in my house who eats a lot of fruits and veggies. I usually have 4+ servings of greens and 4+ servings of fruit. I eat veggies like they're candy. But even my health conscious husband will only eat beans and drink orange juice when it comes to fruit/ veg. I'm not sure when he last ate something green.

[butterflymommy]

Get rid of High Fructose Corn Syrup and have Govt quit subsidizing grains and calling them 'healthy' foods. Grains, and everything made from them, are fattening. More so than any other foods that are traditionally blamed for causing obesity, such as dairy or meat fats.

 

I have eaten a high-grain diet all my life and have never been overweight. I think it comes down to calories and a person's "trigger" for a sense of fullness (which varies between individuals)... grains are calorie dense which can get people with big appetites in trouble.

 

The "8-11" servings of grain a day on the now defunct food pyramid is another problem because people don't understand what a serving is. By pyramid standards one serving of grain is 1/2 cup cereal, cooked rice or pasta, or one very small slice of bread. But people think a plate of rice or a big bowl of cereal is a "serving" so they essentially are not limiting their intake of grains since they have this idea of "8-11 servings."

[silliness7]

I so don't agree with having it tied to insurance in any way. How would that work? What about all the unhealthy skinny people who don't eat well or exercise? What about those that are obese but healthy?

 

I think many can't afford to eat healthy and many just don't know how. The labeling on foods is terrible and makes many think they're eating healthy and they're not.

 

I'm not picking on you, just responding to your post. I thought the post about tying it to insurance was a brilliant idea. I think it's a fallacy to say that because we can't or don't target every unhealthy lifestyle or choice that we can't target obesity. Smoking has been targeted. Some insurance companies already offer perks and discounts for gym memberships. I don't think it would be hard to do. I also think that if one has a medical condition that precludes them from losing weight I would hope they would be exempt with a doctor's note and would hope that loophole didn't get abused.

 

I also don't think that the lack of eating healthy or the lack of exercise is what is causing people to be obese. We just plain eat TOO MUCH FOOD! Our food tastes too darn good and is too easy to acquire in too large of portions and we have way too much time on our hands to eat it.

 

Losing weight and how you want to go about it are very personal decisions. I wouldn't want that dictated to me. But financial incentives to get the weight off would be wonderful, I think.

[silliness7]

Reduce the price of organic foods, make fruits and veggies available and affordable.

 

.

 

This is a new one to me. But I confess that I really don't keep up on much of the literature regarding this subject. Are pesticides attributing to weight gain? Or are people bummed that they can't afford organic bananas and buying twinkies instead?