My run in with the library nazi...

[Stacie Leigh]

I'm taking my 7yo & 5yo for an exciting "downtown library" trip tomorrow - we get to ride the bus (yippee!! sigh), walk under the road in a tunnel (where I go to work - a good walk away from the library, but one of the must-do highlights of the trip, apparently), have lunch, and then walk several blocks to the really nice library.

 

I must say, I WAS looking forward to it... until reading this thread... <g> I haven't gone there in a very long time, but they used to always be very nice - I've got my fingers crossed!! <rofl>

 

 

Oh noooooo, lol! The cranky librarian has struck fear in to library goers everywhere! :lol:

 

 

Have a wonderful adventure!

[Margo out of lurking]

..

[kalanamak]

We've had bizarre..."altercations" with people in the last few years, also. I've noticed that people seem more and more off their rockers. There's a huge lack of etiquette, social skills and professionalism these days. We could make a TV show about some of the bizarre behaviors my husband and I have seen from people lately.

 

Well, this was 1984. I didn't "speak" New York, and she didn't "speak" Kansas/West Coast. It was a cultural misunderstanding. :)

[creekland]

I'll be the dissenter. I'd read this "How to Land Your Child in Therapy" article and not intervene or really care. Kids are FAR more resilient than we give them credit for.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/8555/

 

So they learn that other people have other rules and care about other things. They may have to learn to adapt their behavior. Big deal. Keeping them out of therapy when they are young adults is a SUPER big deal.

 

In our school district there is one super strict librarian - super, super strict. Your experience wouldn't hold a candle to it. To date, no kids have been harmed. They've learned to laugh it off outside of the library.

 

IMO we [universal we] coddle our kids way too much and "protect" them way too much. I can totally understand why so many young adults are in therapy as per the article.

 

If it were me any my kids, we'd discuss the rules prior to going in the library (as you did), allow whatever "happened" there - yelling, books, and all - then discuss it in the car (maybe) and perhaps with a little humor. I would NOT put all the blame on the librarian and make the kids feel like saints, but I would probably say, "Wow, that's one librarian who really insists that the rules are kept, isn't it? We'll have to be very careful to keep the rules if she's there next time." Then we'd continue our day and I doubt I'd share the incident with anyone but hubby.

[Hedgehog]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/8555/

 

Very interesting article. Thanks for posting.

 

I'm not sure that's it's totally applicable to this thread, however - I didn't read the OP as putting the blame on the librarian; simply that it wasn't such an easy situation to deal with.

[plansrme]

Don't get me started on the librarian and her boss who wouldn't let my husband check out my requested book because we "might have been in the middle of a contentious divorce, and he stole the request-is-here card out of my mailbox and was just checking it out to harass me."

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Like divorcing spouses need library books to hurt each other...

 

Terri

[Stacie Leigh]

I'll be the dissenter. I'd read this "How to Land Your Child in Therapy" article and not intervene or really care. Kids are FAR more resilient than we give them credit for.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/8555/

 

So they learn that other people have other rules and care about other things. They may have to learn to adapt their behavior. Big deal. Keeping them out of therapy when they are young adults is a SUPER big deal.

 

In our school district there is one super strict librarian - super, super strict. Your experience wouldn't hold a candle to it. To date, no kids have been harmed. They've learned to laugh it off outside of the library.

 

IMO we [universal we] coddle our kids way too much and "protect" them way too much. I can totally understand why so many young adults are in therapy as per the article.

 

If it were me any my kids, we'd discuss the rules prior to going in the library (as you did), allow whatever "happened" there - yelling, books, and all - then discuss it in the car (maybe) and perhaps with a little humor. I would NOT put all the blame on the librarian and make the kids feel like saints, but I would probably say, "Wow, that's one librarian who really insists that the rules are kept, isn't it? We'll have to be very careful to keep the rules if she's there next time." Then we'd continue our day and I doubt I'd share the incident with anyone but hubby.

 

I addressed this earlier, but my kids had no idea that I spoke to her about it and when I spoke to them about it later, I was clear they had to respect her regardless. In fact, both of us moms literally "laughed it off" as far as our kids were concerned. ;)

 

I am cracking up at the idea of being labeled a coddler. I moved to my neighborhood in March and I already have a reputation with the neighbors because my kids aren't allowed to run around with theirs and do as they please all summer.

 

DH and I are both type A personalities so our kids have to put up with two over the top perfectionists. If our kids receive classroom discipline during childrens' church (ie, sitting our due to misbehavior) they receive home discipline as well... Same applies with the library, so my kids were told, after yesterday, that if they wanted to enjoy the library, they'd have to keep their feet flat on the floor while walking there.

[unsinkable]

I don't know what to think. :confused:

 

The librarian saw 8 kids and 2 adults. In her opinion, she had to tell/yell at some of the kids to stop running from the moment you walked in the door. Then another kid was running (you said jogged). She was checking your books in and yelled at him to stop.

 

At that point, it sounds like you have quite a long conversation/argument with her about how to address your children.

 

Who was watching your kids at this point? Why were they allowed to pull out 30 board books?

 

I would have done 2 things differently.

 

1. The kids would have been by my side/at my feet while I checked in so I knew they were following the rules, especially after the librarian treated you in a way you didn't like as soon as you walked in the door. That way, the 8 y.o. jogger wouldn't have had a chance to jog/run. IOW, the kids wouldn't have given her another chance to yell at them b/c they were right beside me.

 

2. I would not let my kids pull out 30 books. I would have been with them and explained that we needed to get out a few at a time, then put the ones we weren't checking out back where they belonged.

 

I've taken multiple little ones to the library for YEARS. Until they were no longer little, they stayed with me while I checked in and out. (We made a game of it. Sometimes we played hug the wall. Sometimes we played sit like a puppy or frog or whatever on the ground.) They were within arms' length when we were in the kids' section and they were my little ducklings when I *quickly* went to the adult section to pick out my books.

Edited July 20, 2011 by unsinkable

[creekland]

Very interesting article. Thanks for posting.

 

I'm not sure that's it's totally applicable to this thread, however - I didn't read the OP as putting the blame on the librarian; simply that it wasn't such an easy situation to deal with.

 

I don't think it has to do with putting blame anywhere, but rather with whether or not we [universal we again - meaning parents] always feel the need to make the situation our kids are in better. I don't think it matters one iota if the kids know anything is happening or not. Almost everyone suggested taking the issue to a supervisor and trying to get "the behavior" - librarian's behavior - improved. I don't think I would do that. I think it would be better for my kids to learn to deal with different people even from a very young (toddler) age.

 

 

I am cracking up at the idea of being labeled a coddler.

 

By purposely writing in the [universal we] I was trying to make the point that my point was general, not specific.

 

After having read the article and discussing it at length with hubby and my middle son on our way home from a college visit last week, I doubt there are any "good" parents who can't look at things differently - at least for discussion purposes. "Good" is in quotes because I have students in school who have parents who literally don't give a hoot. They need to look at things differently too, but not in the aspect that article brings up! I don't consider them "good" parents. Pretty much anyone on this board would meet my definition of "good" in the aspect that "good" means we want the best for our kids. Granted, we all have different ways of going about that, but I sincerely believe if we're dedicated enough to be on a homeschooling forum, we want the best for our kids.

 

I do think we [universal we] coddle our kids too much. And I do believe the author is correct that it's going to come back and haunt many as adults. I see it with teens at school already (the coddling and the start of the haunting).

[Farrar]

She sounds exactly like one of the children's librarians here. None of us can stand her. My kids know they're not to talk to her. She makes nasty comments about homeschooling too.

 

My last straw with her was that one day I was there without my kids and watched her spend about 20 minutes harassing a poor 10 yo who was sitting and quietly reading - she is handicapped (she walks with a walker) and wouldn't get up from her desk so she spent the whole conversation yelling across the children's room at him and kept saying "SPEAK UP!" to this poor kid. And that was after tearing into a toddler who had tried to use the computer, and whose parent was, as a result of the kid not listening, clearly packing up to leave, yet she inserted herself into it and berated the kid as the parent stood there in shock trying to depart.

 

I wrote a complaint to the central library and spoke with the library community relations person. No clue what the outcome was, but she's been *slightly* less brusque since then.

 

Basically, I would just keep going and ignore her. That's what I've done with my library bully.

[Stacie Leigh]

I don't think it has to do with putting blame anywhere, but rather with whether or not we [universal we again - meaning parents] always feel the need to make the situation our kids are in better. I don't think it matters one iota if the kids know anything is happening or not. Almost everyone suggested taking the issue to a supervisor and trying to get "the behavior" - librarian's behavior - improved. I don't think I would do that. I think it would be better for my kids to learn to deal with different people even from a very young (toddler) age.

 

 

 

By purposely writing in the [universal we] I was trying to make the point that my point was general, not specific.

 

After having read the article and discussing it at length with hubby and my middle son on our way home from a college visit last week, I doubt there are any "good" parents who can't look at things differently - at least for discussion purposes. "Good" is in quotes because I have students in school who have parents who literally don't give a hoot. They need to look at things differently too, but not in the aspect that article brings up! I don't consider them "good" parents. Pretty much anyone on this board would meet my definition of "good" in the aspect that "good" means we want the best for our kids. Granted, we all have different ways of going about that, but I sincerely believe if we're dedicated enough to be on a homeschooling forum, we want the best for our kids.

 

I do think we [universal we] coddle our kids too much. And I do believe the author is correct that it's going to come back and haunt many as adults. I see it with teens at school already (the coddling and the start of the haunting).

 

Well then, we're in agreement!

[ma23peas]

I have not read all the previous pages comments, but I have never allowed my two year olds free reign on the board books...I think that was not very smart, and if I were the librarian I would have had the inking that your children were out of control. It sounds like there was probably more running, you've admitted to three cases...what you consider 'two year old bounding' looks very much like running to someone else. You have all your kids plus five kids from another family...the excitement was probably overwhelming...we've been to libraries with other families, but never have any of my children ever jogged or bundled...I'm just seeing a picture of a family that could have been a bit more respectful of the property...and would have let it go with a polite, "I'm very sorry, we will make sure it won't happen again." And leave it at that.

 

If I had two year olds in the library, they were always on my hip, in a stroller or holding my hand and I would give them ONE book to sit in a chair to read with me next to them, the other kids would come up to me and show me books. If I needed to do a large laundry basket shopping day at the library (I've been there done that) I would go when my husband was at home and bring them all back...

 

I am not excusing her behavior at all, she was harsh, crass and rude....but bottom line is don't give people like that a reason...rationalizing with them almost never works.

[Stacie Leigh]

I have not read all the previous pages comments, but I have never allowed my two year olds free reign on the board books...I think that was not very smart, and if I were the librarian I would have had the inking that your children were out of control. It sounds like there was probably more running, you've admitted to three cases...what you consider 'two year old bounding' looks very much like running to someone else. You have all your kids plus five kids from another family...the excitement was probably overwhelming...we've been to libraries with other families, but never have any of my children ever jogged or bundled...I'm just seeing a picture of a family that could have been a bit more respectful of the property...and would have let it go with a polite, "I'm very sorry, we will make sure it won't happen again." And leave it at that.

 

If I had two year olds in the library, they were always on my hip, in a stroller or holding my hand and I would give them ONE book to sit in a chair to read with me next to them, the other kids would come up to me and show me books. If I needed to do a large laundry basket shopping day at the library (I've been there done that) I would go when my husband was at home and bring them all back...

 

I am not excusing her behavior at all, she was harsh, crass and rude....but bottom line is don't give people like that a reason...rationalizing with them almost never works.

 

 

1. I never said "bounding".

 

2. They didn't have free reign and were within 10 feet of us.

 

3. The librarian insisted that we stand at the desk while she checked in all of my books (so she could check for fines). I felt the board books were more appropriate for them to explore than picture books. (They are 2.5 and nearly 3, so not little babies.)

 

4. I wasn't having a huge book shopping day... I said I was returning a laundry basket full. Checked out by my MIL who went out of town and left me to return them. Lucky you to have a husband who is available during library hours. ;)

 

4. I'm amazed that you are implying that I flat out lied, lol. I didn't know I had anything to hide as far as my failure to "admit" how many times they ran... which I did accurately anyhow. The time she finally yelled out, all of the kids were seated at a table except my 8 year old.

[mommymilkies]

:grouphug: It sounds like one of our librarians. I really can't stand her. She once accused me of sneaking into the library to put a book back onto the shelf instead of admitting to my 5 cent fine. :001_huh:

[amyk]

I believe you, Stacie Leigh!

[Pretty in Pink]

I would just tell my children to avoid her from now on. If she continued to behave in that manner towards my children week after week, then I would go over her head, but not over one time.

 

I think most of us can feel your pain. My local library has a few sour grapes on staff as well. :grouphug: This afternoon one of the staff in the children's department kept reminding my boys to whisper (the children's room is down the hall and closed off from the main library and nobody whispers in there). She then proceeded to carry on a loud conversation with another librarian. :001_huh:

[Pink Fairy]

I believe you, Stacie Leigh!

 

 

:lol: :iagree:

[Journey]

I didn't read all of the posts but I don't think many people will say what I'm going to say. I hope I don't offend as that is not my intent. But I find it really hard to believe that a children's librarian, working during working hours, in the children's department would get SO mad about your kids. Are you certain that your kids were 100% in the right? One hundred percent? Rules are made for a reason and they're made to be followed the way whomever wrote them intended them to. Not for you or me or anyone else to figure out. If your kids weren't following the rules, then they need to be reprimanded, sorry. I just feel like there is something missing here and I'm not sure the children's librarian was totally in the wrong. AND(!) I would have had a F.I.T if you todl me to come out from around my desk to talk to your kids. Oh no you didn't!

[suzybluecheese]

I didn't read all of the posts but I don't think many people will say what I'm going to say. I hope I don't offend as that is not my intent. But I find it really hard to believe that a children's librarian, working during working hours, in the children's department would get SO mad about your kids. Are you certain that your kids were 100% in the right? One hundred percent? Rules are made for a reason and they're made to be followed the way whomever wrote them intended them to. Not for you or me or anyone else to figure out. If your kids weren't following the rules, then they need to be reprimanded, sorry. I just feel like there is something missing here and I'm not sure the children's librarian was totally in the wrong. AND(!) I would have had a F.I.T if you todl me to come out from around my desk to talk to your kids. Oh no you didn't!

 

I don't mean to speak for the OP, but no they probably weren't 100% in the right; they are children. That is why we must have a little patience with them. Kids don't have the self control that adults do because they are not mentally mature enough to have self control.

[WishboneDawn]

I didn't read all of the posts but I don't think many people will say what I'm going to say. I hope I don't offend as that is not my intent. But I find it really hard to believe that a children's librarian, working during working hours, in the children's department would get SO mad about your kids. Are you certain that your kids were 100% in the right? One hundred percent? Rules are made for a reason and they're made to be followed the way whomever wrote them intended them to. Not for you or me or anyone else to figure out. If your kids weren't following the rules, then they need to be reprimanded, sorry. I just feel like there is something missing here and I'm not sure the children's librarian was totally in the wrong. AND(!) I would have had a F.I.T if you todl me to come out from around my desk to talk to your kids. Oh no you didn't!

 

Honestly, I've been surprised by the number of people I've met that work with kids but are bad at relating to them, don't think much of them or even out right hate children.

 

It's baffling and sad but bad behaviour towards children rarely surprises me.

[Ksol]

We just moved this March and we went from the smallest library in the area to a brand new, absolutely gorgeous library. I brought a friend (another WTM boardie) and her 5 kids along with me and my laundry basket of books to return today and I had 3 of my 4 kids with me as well.

 

My kids had been prep'd and know the rules about the library- walking feet and quiet voices.

 

The librarian freaked when we came into the kids section (which is a whole floor, separate from the main library). The two toddlers were scampering along in a very 2-year-old kind of way. They weren't moving fast, just kind of bobbing along, but she immediately raised her voice in their general direction and said "NO running!". We stopped what we were doing, turned around, and reminded all of them not to run. She continued to grouch about them running while she checked the books in.

 

 

While she was at it, my 8 year old jogged around the corner and I immediately gave him the evil eye. Again, he wasn't tearing through the place like a maniac, he just got excited and picked up his feet a little bit. He had already slowed to a walk, but this time, the librarian just lost it and yelled "I said NO RUNNING!"

 

I checked if she was the head childrens' librarian and she wasn't. I told her that we love the library and plan to be there often and that I understand the rules, think they are perfectly reasonable and I will most certainly enforce them with my kids but I would appreciate it if she wouldn't yell at them.

 

She basically said that another kid had fallen while running and she wasn't going to deal with that again and she'd yell if she had to. I explained to her that I understood she needed to enforce the rules, but if she felt the need to address my kids, she'd have to step out from behind the desk and speak to them. She told me if they were running there was no way she'd stop what she was doing to go talk to them and she'd yell if she had to. I reiterated that I simply wasn't going to tolerate someone yelling at my children and that if I needed to speak to a superior until an appropriate procedure was put in place, I would do so.

 

She told me that parents are oblivious and if I would enforce the rules, she wouldn't have to say anything and that would solve the problem. I agreed with her that it was my job and asked her to let me do it but she wasn't having it.

 

By the end of the conversation, I appealed to her, asking her if she had children and remembered when they were small and asked if she'd want someone yelling at them but she was unyielding. The conversation continued to go downhill as she outlined several ridiculous scenarios in which the rules had been broken in the past.

 

We walked away and our kids had several stacks of books out, so my friend and I started carefully refiling the board books since there were 30 or so board books alone out at that point. The other librarian came over and told us to stop it because we'd mess everything up. :001_huh: There is one shelf of board books and they are alphabetized, so not exactly hard to figure out.

 

I went to return the remainder to the book cart and she freaked out again saying that I couldn't put them there. I asked her where they should go and she huffed "Just give them to me and I'll do it myself." She made several more comments about all of the books the kids had out and how she'd have to put them away. :001_huh:

 

*Sigh* I was sooo excited to spend a lot of time there this schoolyear, but honestly, if it's going to be that stressful, we may have to be a drop-off-and-pick-up only family.

 

In any case, if you made it through the novel, how would you have handled the situation?

 

 

I would NOT have approached the librarian and am complete agreement with her that she should not have to stop whatever she is doing to speak with your kids. Your "evil eye" was not the same as telling your son to not run. Was she supposed to interpret that?

 

I would have assumed that she was cranky and left it at that. Kids don't need coddling. Not everyone is warm and fuzzy. It would be nice, in the children's section of the library, especially- but that isn't the real world. It seems this upset you more than the kids, and honestly, from your description, I would have been rolling my eyes at both you and the librarian.

 

I might just be put off from your story because of your title. I think the use of the word Nazi to describe semi-normal human beings is inappropriate.

[Jennifer3141]

We have a library set up exactly like you have described. And we have a marvelous male librarian and a rather jerky female librarian. We found out when the guy works and go there then.

 

I do understand the jerky librarian's mood most of the time. Have you noticed how many parents DUMP their kids and sneak off????

 

But we avoid the woman if we can because it does seem like we can never quite be perfect enough for her and she gets REALLY snotty when we check out the maximum number of books.

[suzybluecheese]

I think the use of the word Nazi to describe semi-normal human beings is inappropriate.

 

I think we can blame Jerry Seinfeld for that.

[8circles]

I'm surprised at some of the comments & how well some of you are able to control your children. Not being snarky, I'm seriously impressed.

 

ETA: Accidentally posted before I was done. Stacie, I feel for you. The librarian wasn't on her own best behavior & I'd expect more self-control from her than from children. Hopefully she was just having a bad day. Aside from the librarian, I'd consider it a successful library trip. I hope you're able to enjoy the new library.

Edited July 20, 2011 by momoflaw

[pqr]

I would NOT have approached the librarian and am complete agreement with her that she should not have to stop whatever she is doing to speak with your kids. Your "evil eye" was not the same as telling your son to not run. Was she supposed to interpret that?

 

I would have assumed that she was cranky and left it at that. Kids don't need coddling. Not everyone is warm and fuzzy. It would be nice, in the children's section of the library, especially- but that isn't the real world. It seems this upset you more than the kids, and honestly, from your description, I would have been rolling my eyes at both you and the librarian.

 

I might just be put off from your story because of your title. I think the use of the word Nazi to describe semi-normal human beings is inappropriate.

 

I am in full agreement.

 

I wish more adults would challenge children when they misbehave and yes "jogging" in the library is misbehaving.

[Lori D.]

Here's a completely difference twist: How about you "kill her with kindness" [insert evil chortle here...]

 

Just before going to the library next time, bake a batch of cookies, package them nicely in a plastic bag and put them in a little gift bag with the recipe (in case she has food allergies, so she'll know what's in them) in a card that says "welcome!". Then, all together as a family go up and gift her, saying something like, "Last week we seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot, and we would really like to have a good working relationship with you since we'll be frequenting this library branch. So, here's a little "welcome" gift, and I'd like to introduce us..." Let each child say their name and name a topic or author they enjoy reading from the library, and then ask her name and what are her favorite things to read from the library, or what is new at the library, or what she recommends. :)

 

 

BEST of luck in converting your "library nazi" into a "library nice lady"! ;) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[unsinkable]

I'm surprised at some of the comments & how well some of you are able to control your children. Not being snarky, I'm seriously impressed.

 

ETA: Accidentally posted before I was done. Stacie, I feel for you. The librarian wasn't on her own best behavior & I'd expect more self-control from her than from children. Hopefully she was just having a bad day. Aside from the librarian, I'd consider it a successful library trip. I hope you're able to enjoy the new library.

 

Which comments in particular are you surprised at?

[5kidsforME]

It sounds like there was probably more running, you've admitted to three cases....

 

:001_huh:

 

What the what?? You admit to not reading the whole thread..what the heck is the above for?

[5kidsforME]

I didn't read all of the posts but I don't think many people will say what I'm going to say. I hope I don't offend as that is not my intent. But I find it really hard to believe that a children's librarian, working during working hours, in the children's department would get SO mad about your kids. Are you certain that your kids were 100% in the right? One hundred percent? Rules are made for a reason and they're made to be followed the way whomever wrote them intended them to. Not for you or me or anyone else to figure out. If your kids weren't following the rules, then they need to be reprimanded, sorry. I just feel like there is something missing here and I'm not sure the children's librarian was totally in the wrong. AND(!) I would have had a F.I.T if you todl me to come out from around my desk to talk to your kids. Oh no you didn't!

 

Please, PLEASE come visit my library. YES, I totally believe her story.

 

I truly am starting to think that to be a librarian, you need to take a nasty-pants class before you start.

[Stacie Leigh]

I believe you, Stacie Leigh!

 

:lol: :iagree:

 

Haha, thanks for the laugh! ;)

 

I didn't read all of the posts but I don't think many people will say what I'm going to say. I hope I don't offend as that is not my intent. But I find it really hard to believe that a children's librarian, working during working hours, in the children's department would get SO mad about your kids. Are you certain that your kids were 100% in the right? One hundred percent? Rules are made for a reason and they're made to be followed the way whomever wrote them intended them to. Not for you or me or anyone else to figure out. If your kids weren't following the rules, then they need to be reprimanded, sorry. I just feel like there is something missing here and I'm not sure the children's librarian was totally in the wrong. AND(!) I would have had a F.I.T if you todl me to come out from around my desk to talk to your kids. Oh no you didn't!

 

Of course they weren't 100% in the right... I said up front that they ran in the library and broke the rules, although the "rules" were not posted and she didn't provide them on paper, just verbally!. If you read back a little you'll see that I'm tough on my kids. I expect them to behave in public (and private) and I even expect them to understand that 4 children cannot get away with what one child might get away with in a public setting.

 

I only brought up her leaving the desk because she seemed to feel the need to scream. She seemed to have trouble figuring out what a reasonable response to children was, so I politely mentioned what I thought was a fair solution.

 

And since when does a child have to be 100% in the right to be treated appropriately by an adult... and one working at a venue specifically for children, nonetheless!?

 

I don't mean to speak for the OP, but no they probably weren't 100% in the right; they are children. That is why we must have a little patience with them. Kids don't have the self control that adults do because they are not mentally mature enough to have self control.

 

You can speak for me anytime, lol! ;) I put a lot of demands on my kids... and that is my choice to make. I'm their mother. I guess the bottom line is that I expected too much of this woman. I'm amazed that I keep hearing that because the same people that keep saying I expected too much from her seem to think I should expect infinitely more from a 2 year old! :lol:

 

 

I would NOT have approached the librarian and am complete agreement with her that she should not have to stop whatever she is doing to speak with your kids. Your "evil eye" was not the same as telling your son to not run. Was she supposed to interpret that?

 

I would have assumed that she was cranky and left it at that. Kids don't need coddling. Not everyone is warm and fuzzy. It would be nice, in the children's section of the library, especially- but that isn't the real world. It seems this upset you more than the kids, and honestly, from your description, I would have been rolling my eyes at both you and the librarian.

 

I might just be put off from your story because of your title. I think the use of the word Nazi to describe semi-normal human beings is inappropriate.

 

Search my posts in this thread... I'm highly anti-coddling. The "evil eye" worked. The kid stopped jogging, running, whatever... before she yelled. I had responded to her previous carryings on by turning and reiterating that they shouldn't run and I made sure she heard me. I did my part to calm her and abide by her demands before addressing the issue.

 

I think it absolutely did upset me more than it upset my kids... I'm the momma. That's my job. The bottom line is not that my kids were scarred for life over a cranky pants (They are just fine.), it's that a person that should be a facilitator and example couldn't control her temper, treated children poorly, and usurped parental authority when there was no serious or immediate risk.

 

Again, read the rest of the thread. I've apologized the reference more than once... The post below describes the reason I ever dared use the term. Soup-n*zi is a common pop culture reference, but again, I understand that it wasn't the best choice of words. That said, I can deal with being left out of the semi-normal population if that suits ya. ;)

 

I think we can blame Jerry Seinfeld for that.

 

Yup. Totally used to the term after that, but I am sorry that anyone was ruffled... honestly.

 

 

I'm surprised at some of the comments & how well some of you are able to control your children. Not being snarky, I'm seriously impressed.

 

ETA: Accidentally posted before I was done. Stacie, I feel for you. The librarian wasn't on her own best behavior & I'd expect more self-control from her than from children. Hopefully she was just having a bad day. Aside from the librarian, I'd consider it a successful library trip. I hope you're able to enjoy the new library.

 

Me too, lol!! I don't know anyone harder on their kids than I am so I'm amazed at all those parents whose children NEVER act up in public! They should let the rest of us in on their secret!

 

 

Here's a completely difference twist: How about you "kill her with kindness" [insert evil chortle here...]

 

Just before going to the library next time, bake a batch of cookies, package them nicely in a plastic bag and put them in a little gift bag with the recipe (in case she has food allergies, so she'll know what's in them) in a card that says "welcome!". Then, all together as a family go up and gift her, saying something like, "Last week we seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot, and we would really like to have a good working relationship with you since we'll be frequenting this library branch. So, here's a little "welcome" gift, and I'd like to introduce us..." Let each child say their name and name a topic or author they enjoy reading from the library, and then ask her name and what are her favorite things to read from the library, or what is new at the library, or what she recommends. :)

 

 

BEST of luck in converting your "library nazi" into a "library nice lady"! ;) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Lori, you're a doll and so right. After the disagreement, I rallied the kids and reminded them to be on their BEST behavior til we were totally out the door and I attempted to clean up so as not to further ruffle her, but it was in vain on this occasion.

 

I'm not the type to blow someone off and assume it won't catch up with me. The world is too small a place, lol... I tried to bring the conversation to a friendly close, but she just kept shaking her head "no", no matter how I tried.

 

If she hasn't calmed down and is still around in the future, we'll have to see what we can do to convince her that these kids aren't rotten, just friendly and eager to learn, lol!

[stripe]

I truly am starting to think that to be a librarian, you need to take a nasty-pants class before you start.

 

No!!! But some people became librarians because they like books and quiet places, when one should become a librarian because they like helping people find books (and other stuff). Most librarians are actually (dare I say) kind of wild.

[Orthodox6]

I truly am starting to think that to be a librarian, you need to take a nasty-pants class before you start.

 

I'm sure you intended some humor, as have others posting to this thread. Nonetheless, this comment bothers me. I was graduated from one of the country's top programs, one fortunate to have a full two-year program required. Our professors underscored professionalism for all types of library work, in all types of libraries. I loved my work. My favorite job throughout the relatively few years that I worked was at a college library. Students would come to my office to hang out at odd moments. I enjoyed friendly relations with the other faculty members, too. I truly believe that the "sour grapes" librarians are very few in number.

[8circles]

Which comments in particular are you surprised at?

 

Don't have time to look back & quote but I was surprised to hear a couple descriptions of going to the library with littles where they never leave your side, only walk, & don't pull-out lots of books. I consider my kids really well behaved but that seems unattainable in my world. I'm impressed that for some of you it's reality.

 

For the walking issue, I think much of it depends on what your library is like. Our library is a newer building with wide isles & the entrance is big & spacious. I don't worry about them bounding/skipping/galloping as long as it isn't wild & they're paying attention. In my parent's library which is in a historic building & no open space whatsoever, that wouldn't be appropriate. IDK. Just thinking.

[Garga]

Once she got her dander up, she wasn't able to back down without feeling belittled. It doesn't mean she was right, but that seems to be what happened.

 

And then she probably told the story to the other librarian, but put her own spin on it. Or, if the other librarian heard it, the other librarian was already loyal to the snarky one and that's why librarian #2 was huffy about the board books.

 

I wouldn't take any action right now. I would go back another day and see what happens again. It could have just been a bad day. Perhaps someone really obnoxious had just left the library and the librarians were extra sensitive.

 

If it happens again, then I would start to take the advice of others.

 

And, (I say this very gently and not directed at you in particular, but just giving general advice), I've learned a bit about peacekeeping, and the first step in any situation is to look at your own actions and determine any mistakes you made. I don't know if you did or not, but just think back carefully from the librarian's point of view and see if anything you did could have escalated the situation. I'm not inferring that it did. I'm just saying that in any confrontation, the appropriate thing to do is for both sides to honestly assess their own behavior and attempt to see the other person's pov.

[Stacie Leigh]

Don't have time to look back & quote but I was surprised to hear a couple descriptions of going to the library with littles where they never leave your side, only walk, & don't pull-out lots of books. I consider my kids really well behaved but that seems unattainable in my world. I'm impressed that for some of you it's reality.

 

For the walking issue, I think much of it depends on what your library is like. Our library is a newer building with wide isles & the entrance is big & spacious. I don't worry about them bounding/skipping/galloping as long as it isn't wild & they're paying attention. In my parent's library which is in a historic building & no open space whatsoever, that wouldn't be appropriate. IDK. Just thinking.

 

 

Yep, ours is brand new and has wide open spaces so to speak. The librarian actually mentioned to me that there were too many "sharp surfaces" around... ie, tables and shelves engineered specifically for children. Um, my home has tables and shelves too and considerably less open space and I'm not fanatical about maintaining a slow pace. I don't let them tear through the house like wild people and I would never let them do it at the library, store, or anywhere other than the back yard or athletic field either.

[unsinkable]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Me too, lol!! I don't know anyone harder on their kids than I am so I'm amazed at all those parents whose children NEVER act up in public! They should let the rest of us in on their secret!

 

 

 

!

 

I am not quite sure how to take this portion of your response.

 

In your first post, you asked how people would have handled the situation.

 

I gave my thoughts, including how I used games to keep my children with me and within arms reach when they were very young.

 

I didn't write that my children NEVER acted up in public. :confused:

 

I did write that my 2 or 3 year olds would not have been allowed to pull out 30 board books. I think that is not appropriate.

[Stacie Leigh]

I am not quite sure how to take this portion of your response.

 

In your first post, you asked how people would have handled the situation.

 

I gave my thoughts, including how I used games to keep my children with me and within arms reach when they were very young.

 

I didn't write that my children NEVER acted up in public. :confused:

 

I did write that my 2 or 3 year olds would not have been allowed to pull out 30 board books. I think that is not appropriate.

 

Didn't say I was referring to you. ;)

 

And it was a combination of two 2 year olds, two 4 year olds and a 5 year old that had 30 ish board books out, so not that shocking, in my opinion, especially considering that we often have 30ish books checked out for my 4 alone.

 

However I do understand 30 books are a pain to refile so I attempted to help with the cleanup, though even the 2 year olds had moved their selections to the reading tables and left little to nothing on the floor.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Stacie Leigh

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I was going to do this privately, but I figured since I seem to have stepped in it publicly, I should acknowledge it the same way.

 

I'm sorry if I came off as harsh or judgmental in my previous post. I had just read the "Is Auschwitz common knowledge?" thread a couple of days ago and, from there, did a LOT more reading about the Holocaust than I had previously and it obviously struck a nerve. Then, there was the genocide thread and I read even more. I took the word you used at face value and way out of context.

 

I apologize if I came across as 'holier-than-thou'. It wasn't intended. It is no excuse, but it has been an interesting week and I must now go make amends to a friend I may have also been harsh to. (To whom I may have been harsh?)

 

And, yes, to answer your question, I WOULD have been really upset if someone had yelled at my kids.

 

I'm gonna take this :chillpill: and go to bed!

[Stacie Leigh]

I was going to do this privately, but I figured since I seem to have stepped in it publicly, I should acknowledge it the same way.

 

I'm sorry if I came off as harsh or judgmental in my previous post. I had just read the "Is Auschwitz common knowledge?" thread a couple of days ago and, from there, did a LOT more reading about the Holocaust than I had previously and it obviously struck a nerve. Then, there was the genocide thread and I read even more. I took the word you used at face value and way out of context.

 

I apologize if I came across as 'holier-than-thou'. It wasn't intended. It is no excuse, but it has been an interesting week and I must now go make amends to a friend I may have also been harsh to. (To whom I may have been harsh?)

 

And, yes, to answer your question, I WOULD have been really upset if someone had yelled at my kids.

 

I'm gonna take this :chillpill: and go to bed!

 

 

No you didn't step in it any more than I did. (Or maybe we just both stepped in it together, lol!)

 

It did take me aback when you suggested that I was telling her how to do her job... I was literally mulling over that one in the shower this morning because it never occurred to me before you mentioned it! It's not totally out the scope of reality either, so you shouldn't apologize over it. I would never presume to butt in over how she checks in books or files them. I guess I more felt that I was telling her that if she wanted to help me do MY job, she'd have to do it closer to my way, hehe!

 

The nazi reference is my fault. When I first read your post I felt your reference was even more callous than mine, but I completely understand where you are coming from now and I truly appreciate you explaining. I've learned my lesson and I won't toss that one around lightly again. I am truly sorry for offending you. I might not have meant it in the way it was taken, but it was unnecessary and insensitive on my part.

 

It's good to know that you can relate to me being upset that my kids were yelled at, lol... I probably came across as snarky, but it was a genuine question and I really appreciate you answering.

 

It's really funny because I posted an update to this thread before I ever read your last post and I mentioned in it that I'm going to have a big ol' chill pill myself, lol! I think we're two people with our hearts in the right place who just ended up on the opposite side of this (very small) issue. I wanted other perspectives, and I got them! :) I imagine, after reading my responses, I've come across as pretty defensive and not particularly open minded. I thought I was posting to get input, but I think I needed to reassure myself, after getting such a poor response from the librarian, that I did the right thing. I won't say I feel justified as much as I feel at peace that I did my best and no permanent harm was done. Hopefully the same is true on the board. I love it here!

 

Good luck with your amends-making... if you're half as eloquent with that person as you've been just now, it should go well. ;)

Edited July 21, 2011 by Stacie Leigh

[Hockey Mom]

Six months ago, I would have been on "your side" and said that the librarian was probably having a bad day, and to shrug it off.

 

However, in the last six months my Dh and I have opened a retail store selling electronic cigarettes. So, it's an 'adult' type of store. We spent a lot of time and money to decorate this store to reflect a more 'high class' establishment (jeweler cases, white furniture, glass bowls with tangerines in them, etc). I am routinely SHOCKED at the complete lack of respect parents have for my store. They think it's cute when little Johnny takes the tangerines out of the glass bowl and throws them all over my store. Or little Suzy's high-pitched screech. Sure, they'll occasionally toss a 'no, no honey' out there, but for the most part, they ignore the behavior.

 

Granted, my store isn't really a place for children (unlike the library). But I can most certainly understand this librarian's frustration. It shouldn't have to be written on a wall somewhere, "NO RUNNING ALLOWED". That's common courtesy in a public building. If your children (generally speaking) haven't mastered that yet, then a stroller is probably in order. JMHO.

[Little Nyssa]

I hope you can talk to the head librarian. I also wanted to add, a friend who is a librarian told me that there are those who become librarians because they prefer books to people, which means that those particular librarians may not have the warm & fuzzy people skills.

[BlsdMama]

(Side note: In my jeans, t shirt and ponytail on Tuesday, I probably looked about 23. I've noticed that people have a lot of assumptions about what that means in terms of my ability, or lack thereof, to parent my kids.

 

 

 

You know out of all of that (my sympathies) THIS is what jumped out at me. I recently had a very unappreciated run with a pediatrician (not my own) and I really, truly feel that my wearing lounge pants, a sweatshirt, and a pony tail and I looked about 10 years younger than *I* am also played a part. Frankly it just irritates me to no end. (And, to be fair, I had just given birth so I DESERVED to wear the sweatshirt, ponytail, and no make-up!!)

 

I'm sorry you had to deal with it. Sounds like sweet little kids being nothing but sweet little kids. I'm a pretty firm disciplinarian, but exuberance under control isn't always a bad thing. Sigh.

[Farrar]

 

 

 

2. Some people expect more of a 2 year old than they do of a 50-something year old librarian.

 

 

Oy. So true.:lol:

 

And nice list of learnings. Well put.

[Stacie Leigh]

You know out of all of that (my sympathies) THIS is what jumped out at me. I recently had a very unappreciated run with a pediatrician (not my own) and I really, truly feel that my wearing lounge pants, a sweatshirt, and a pony tail and I looked about 10 years younger than *I* am also played a part. Frankly it just irritates me to no end. (And, to be fair, I had just given birth so I DESERVED to wear the sweatshirt, ponytail, and no make-up!!)

 

I'm sorry you had to deal with it. Sounds like sweet little kids being nothing but sweet little kids. I'm a pretty firm disciplinarian, but exuberance under control isn't always a bad thing. Sigh.

 

I had a fantastic group of midwives overseen by a world renowned OB and they were so empowering to me even though I was only 19 when DS1 was born. (I had been married for 16 months at that point... not that it should have mattered in the way I was treated anyhow.)

 

Well, with my second pregnancy our insurance carrier was changed by DH's employer and I found the group of midwives in the area that were covered and I was stunned at how I was treated. I was 20 years old with an 18 month old in tow and they acted like that automatically made me an idiot. They let their other patients weigh themselves and test their own urine, but "helped" me. They would take my blood pressure and not tell me what it was. When I asked they'd answer "It's fine, dear." I had a sonogram to determine due date since I got pregnant while nursing and still irregular and when I asked what position the placenta was in, they told me not to worry about it.

 

I was shocked when I received their newsletter full of birth stories that detailed tears of joy over the way these midwives shared information with the patient and treated them like an intelligent person capable of making decisions.

 

I was on time, polite, responsible, ate healthy, never smoked or drank or did anything that would tell them I was anything but very responsible, but even during my delivery, they went over my head with decisions.

 

The only thing that I could figure is that my age played a role?

[Nakia]

Wow, what an interesting thread! I am so blessed that we have the sweetest librarians. The book selection might suck, but the librarians are wonderful!! My oldest daughter wants to be a librarian when she grows up (along with her side job as a horse trainer ;) ).

 

I am certain I would not be able to handle myself well if someone yelled at my kid. Thankfully it's never happened. One time my cousin and I took our 1 year olds into a children's consignment store. Right up front they had a little toddler slide. There was no sign stating that the slide was not to be played on. I had a HUGE pile of stuff to buy, so I thought I would let Anna play on the slide while I checked out. It was about 5 feet from me. Anna has always been a calm and quiet child, so I knew she would be fine. Well, the owner came from behind the counter and bent down very close to Anna's face and said something along the lines of "You are a very bad girl, and your mother needs to make you behave." She didn't even raise her voice, but she said it with such a horrible coldness that it made me FURIOUS! I very calmly looked at her and told her she better back off my baby or else. I dropped my pile where I was and walked out. It was awful. I have no idea why the lady couldn't have just told me that the slide was not to be played on. There was no reason for her to confront my 1 year old. Even babies deserve respect!!

 

OTOH, if my child was running/jogging in the library, I would expect the librarian to call them down. Not yell, but let them know that is unexceptable. I know you said you gave him a look, but maybe she didn't see that.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry you went through that. Maybe things will go better next time.

[FlockOfSillies]

I do wish we could stop using the word so casually.

 

You have Seinfeld to thank for that. And he's... Jewish... hmmm...

[Garga]

You know out of all of that (my sympathies) THIS is what jumped out at me. I recently had a very unappreciated run with a pediatrician (not my own) and I really, truly feel that my wearing lounge pants, a sweatshirt, and a pony tail and I looked about 10 years younger than *I* am also played a part. Frankly it just irritates me to no end.

 

 

This is why I always dress up in business casual when I take my kids to the ped. or when I go to the doctor for myself--even if I'm feeling horribly sick. If you look somewhat professional, people will treat you more professionally. It's unfair and stupid, but it's truth.

[suzybluecheese]

I recently had a very unappreciated run with a pediatrician (not my own) and I really, truly feel that my wearing lounge pants, a sweatshirt, and a pony tail and I looked about 10 years younger than *I* am also played a part.

 

Wait! This is all it takes to look 10 years younger? SWEET!

 

cat