s/o: college-uni attendance

[Ester Maria]

This is a spin-off from the thread about curriculum developers without college education, which meanwhile turned into a discussion about poor students, grade inflation and... those students having a lot of absences.

 

I have a question about that, as this is something I often tend to overlook. What were your experiences, whether as a student or as a professor, regarding attendance rules and expectations, i.e. the amount of absences allowed? What were you preferences, too?

 

Do you think persons of age (and most college and university students are) should even be required to attend in the first place (let us assume we speak of lectures here, not exercise-type of classes, such as in sciences, or seminars where presence is needed, but "only" regular lessons), and if so, which amount of absences was / is / should be allowed in your case? Any absences, or just "excused" / preannounced / medical ones?

 

I know this varies greatly from institution to institution and from professor to professor, but I am curious in your experiences. Thank you in advance.

[stripe]

I think it's interesting if a student could easily pass a class without attending the lectures. To me, that shows rather a failure on the part of the professor's planning.

 

If a student already knows the material (prior to enrolling in the class), s/he should be allowed to test out of it and proceed to a higher level.

 

I have observed different attitudes to this. I think people outside the US often share notes and many students just take the tests.

 

As an aside, I hate Power Point.

[Cera]

I don't think attendance should be mandatory in college lecture classes. I feel differently about labs and such because obviously the work can't be done outside of class.

 

I don't think students who fail classes should be eligible for federal grant money or deferred interest loans (so if you are going to fail because you don't show up it should be on your own dime).

[athena1277]

I went to a small Christian university. Were were only allowed to miss a certain amount of classes, like maybe 3 absences per class/semester. The vast majority of the classes met 2 days/week. You could not pass if you missed too much.

 

It does seem rather ridiculous to take attendance in a college class, but honestly there are a lot of young people who would not go to class if they didn't have to. I was the nerd who never missed class unless I was deathly ill, but I had many friends who were the exact opposite.

[Photo Ninja]

I am not a college professor, but if a student can compete the assignments and take the tests and pass the course without attending class, then the student should be allowed to do so. I don't think attendance needs to be taken. Obviously labs need to be completed, so a student would attend, but often there is no need to attend classes that are lecture based when the entire lecture is available online. (And to be clear, I appreciate when teachers have their lecture notes available online so students can download them.)

 

My college dc have taken courses where the entire lecture is available online. There is very little, if anything, discussed during class that is not already on the power point slides. My dc usually download the lecture before class so they can take notes next to the lecture info. But my dc have commented that they really don't need to go to class because they don't need to take notes, they are capable of reading the lectures on their own and the teacher doesn't discuss anything not on the slides. They think attending these classes is a waste of time, and I am sure they would be able to pass tests in these classes without ever attending.

 

Not all classes would fall into this category, and I realize that. But I think students should have the opportunity to make the decision for themselves.

[Mejane]

I rarely attended class unless it was a) mandatory, or b) so interesting I couldn't stay away. (Option "b" was extremely rare.) I'm a visual learner, and it was torture for me to listen to a prof drone on and on when I could read the info in a book and retain it so much better.

 

I graduated cum laude so I don't think missing class hurt me too much. Or maybe I'd have been magna or summa had I attended. I guess we'll never know. ;)

[Pretty in Pink]

My experience, and that of my dh, is that most of our professors have kept tabs on attendance and base a percentage of your grade on attendance (something like 10%).

 

I did have a professor once who said up front that he wasn't keeping attendance records, that our grade was primarily our own responsibility and he expected us to take it seriously. He was a lot more helpful to students who did show up regularly though.

 

My opinion is that the professor's approach really doesn't matter much in terms of attendance or achievement. Studious individuals will generally show up, and by the end of the semester less-dedicated students have quit coming regularly regardless of the instructor's policy, because their grades are such that the 10% either way doesn't really matter at that point.

[Momling]

When I was an undergrad at a very good small private liberal arts college, attendance was not taken -- but since most classes were around a large table, it was pretty obvious who wasn't there! It was also obvious who hadn't done the reading...

 

I also took a year at a university in the UK. I was really surprised that many students didn't attend the lectures, and many didn't do the assigned readings... in fact, I was surprised that we were just given a gigantic book list and told to read whatever we wanted, rather than a model where students were told to read a certain book and then we got together to discuss it or listen to a lecture about it.

 

At a low quality state university teacher ed program, it was more like high school. Attendance was taken.

 

For grad school (ivy league), it was like my undergrad... a few lectures, but mostly classes seated around a table... though I think professors might have taken attendance. I'm not sure.

 

When I taught in community colleges, I did take attendance. It was pretty much like high school... I would like to have assumed that students were responsible adults who could manage their own attendance, but they really couldn't. I was teaching remedial reading and writing classes and the kids were 18 and 19 year olds with pretty low skills and generally disenfranchised by the entire educational system at this point. If nothing else, taking attendance allowed me to field questions like "Why did I fail?" with answers like "We met 33 times for class. You were there for 6 lessons. You didn't turn in any paper or assignment. And you missed the exam." "Can I make it up?" "No."

[Mrs Mungo]

This is a spin-off from the thread about curriculum developers without college education, which meanwhile turned into a discussion about poor students, grade inflation and... those students having a lot of absences.

 

I have a question about that, as this is something I often tend to overlook. What were your experiences, whether as a student or as a professor, regarding attendance rules and expectations, i.e. the amount of absences allowed? What were you preferences, too?

 

My dh and I both attended the same university. Our experiences were varied.

 

I had maybe 4 or 5 professors who actually took attendance (aside from labs or language classes). However, I was a literature major. Class participation was part of your grade in most of my classes. Also, most of our test questions came directly from class discussion. Therefore, regular attendance was both expected and required by default. I had classes in which I had perfect attendance.

 

DH majored in political science. He intentionally took classes that he would not have to attend, where grades were strictly from tests and/or papers. He had classes where the professor read straight out of a book and did not actually give a separate lecture.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[LAS in LA]

. . . but you can't make him drink. Taking attendance is pretty meaningless if half the "students" spend the lecture time texting their friends. :glare:

 

I would rather see professors (like dh) put responsibility squarely in the lap of students and help them see that learning is their job, not the professor's job.

[G5052]

But the two community colleges where I've taught over the last 12 years require that we take attendance for legal reasons and because many forms of financial aid require it. I have reports that I have to fill out for students on financial aid at several points in the semester to verify that they are still actively involved, but with so many classes being online or hybrid (online and in person), the definition is now "contact" meaning that we can also count if the student has turned in work or contacted us via email.

 

I personally don't require attendance. I teach a core class that everybody takes, and I assign a lot of homework. Every assignment and all of my lecture Powerpoints are online because I used to teach this as an 100% online class, so if they miss, it is reasonable for them to catch up on their own. That said, I only accept late work on a few of the larger assignments, and if they have trouble with assignments because they haven't attended in weeks, they have to figure out themselves.

 

In some programs (nursing for example), accreditation sets the attendance policies, not the professor.

[kiana]

This semester I'm teaching remedial math ... I have to say that, although I would prefer to say "Your attendance is up to you. You are an adult," if I did so, approximately 2/3 of the class would be in the failing range. The push to pass students does not come from the departments, but rather from the higher-ups who control funding. If the pass rates are too low (across the whole department), the higher-ups will call and ask why we are so inadequate at instructing, etc.

 

Therefore, I'm left with two options -- bribe students to attend and work, or pass students who have not learned the course material due to non-attendance. I choose the first. They get 1 point per day for attending and participating in in-class activities (the total number of points is such that this is approximately 3% of the grade.)

 

The number of students who have the self-discipline to study independently is far lower than the number who *think* they have the self-discipline.

 

ETA: I also mark them as non-attending if they're texting, and tell them that attendance includes mental as well as physical. They really don't like this policy, but it has greatly reduced the amount of cell-phone usage.

[Murphy101]

I think it's interesting if a student could easily pass a class without attending the lectures. To me, that shows rather a failure on the part of the professor's planning.

 

If a student already knows the material (prior to enrolling in the class), s/he should be allowed to test out of it and proceed to a higher level.

 

I have observed different attitudes to this. I think people outside the US often share notes and many students just take the tests.

 

As an aside, I hate Power Point.

 

 

My dh calls that "Death by Power Point":tongue_smilie:

 

I think grades should be based on knowledge, not attendance. If the work is done and the exams passed - that is what really matters.

 

It also really depends on the teacher. Some classes ARE a waste of time for some students. Not all teachers are created the same.;)

 

Aside from that, it allows adults to use their time wisely. If they don't feel they need to sit in a class they are doing well in, then that is time they can use to study or seek help for other classes.

[Hannah C.]

At the small, private, Catholic liberal arts college I attended, the policy is that if you miss four classes, the professor can drop you from the class. Some professors were more strict about this than others - and I believe all of the professors would make an exception if you were extremely sick. The ones that simply ignored this policy were very much few and far between.

 

Also, the "four classes" applied to hour-long classes. So, if you had a three-hour class once a week, you could only miss one class.

 

I would have been in class anyway - I wasn't about to waste that opportunity! That being said, I had to miss two or three classes in each of my classes my sophomore year because of family stuff, and I ended up dropping a class because I knew I wasn't going to be able to catch up in it and all my other classes too. That's how tough the classes are. You really do need to be in them, for the most part.

 

ETA: I took a couple of upper level history classes where I could have passed the class without attending, if I'd been able to turn in my work outside of class. The reason for this, however, is because those classes required only papers, which were only based on the books we read, and the professor had a habit of getting rather off topic during the classes. Her rambles were fascinating, however, so I didn't mind too much. :D

Edited May 1, 2011 by Hannah C.

[1Togo]

When our son attended a local university, there was an attendance policy w/students dropped for too many no shows, no cell phone/texting in class, etc. Most of the professors put together the tests with a percentage coming from readings and a percentage from lectures. Strong students could get good grades without attending class, but regular students needed to be in class, or they couldn't pull A's. In addition, professors gave bonus points for class participation. We thought it was a good system. In any event, showing up for class is somewhat like showing up for work -- good and bad days, but you still need to be there.

 

Btw, our son attended every lecture, and he was bombarded with pleas for his notes, and a stream of questions around exam time, including dozens of "What's on the test?" and "When is the quiz/test/exam?" This slacked off by the end of the sophomore year.

Edited May 1, 2011 by 1Togo

[tearose]

My undergrad experience was like Momling's--small LAC, mostly seminar-type classes where it was obvious if you weren't there or hadn't done the reading.

 

As a graduate student, I went to every class unless I was really sick. My classes were even smaller (often half a dozen people or less), and we were expected to contribute a lot to the discussion. Grades, though, were based only on a final research paper, but it made you look really bad to the faculty if you missed a lot of classes.

 

As a teaching asst. in grad school, it depended on the professor; some wanted me to take attendance, others didn't care. However, the classes still weren't that large, and the students who did best by and large were ones who missed only a few classes. The readings were usually a springboard for the lectures, so it would be hard to pass the classes just through reading. I usually graded papers and exams and had no problems giving out low grades, though I usually ran the final grade distribution by the professor before returning the graded things. I also had office hours and was available to comment on drafts. After my first class, though, I amended my policy to exclude the day before the due date because (surprise!) that was when everyone wanted to see/email me. Overall, I had very few students actually take advantage of my offer, regardless of the class.

 

Teaching on my own, my attendance policy depended on the type of class. For freshmen seminar-style class, I wanted to emphasize the discussion aspect, so participation was a good chunk of the grade. I also made papers due in class each week with no exceptions, since I formulated the paper topics to help get the discussion going (they had to write ten of thirteen topics given, so I think it was reasonable). Teaching more advanced students, I figured that they knew what to expect, so I didn't micro-manage as much, and I didn't have a problem with attendance. As when I was an assistant, few students used my office hours or had me look at drafts.

[Laura Corin]

I don't think that lectures were compulsory when I was at university. Tutorials, seminars, language classes, etc. were. I always used to attend everything, but I know that some people didn't.

 

Laura

[cathmom]

I usually always went to class. I had one guy say to me when I was an undergraduate, "You're always going to class!" in shock and disbelief. I could not have missed my classes without being noticed because I was mainly in tiny foreign language classes, and I wouldn't have wanted to miss because I wanted to practice. I did have to take one gen. ed. lit class that only like a third of the students came to class except on test days. The professor was boring, but he would say things like, "Hmm, the name of Odysseus' dog is interesting. Something like that could appear on the test." He would give out 5-10 of these little gems as rewards for attending class and they always appeared on the test. I'd be taking the test and hear somebody mutter, "The dog! How am I supposed to remember the name of the dog!?"

 

In grad school, we were generally allowed 3 misses, and anything else you discussed with the professor.

[Murphy101]

From a penny pincher perspective, it honestly never occurred to me to NOT go to a class I paid a small fortune to be able to attend. In fact, I tended to be royal ticked if the professor didn't show up on time or cut out early.

 

So I would be there baring sickness.

 

I'm just saying I don't think it should have anything to do with the grade.:)

[Teachaheart]

This is a spin-off from the thread about curriculum developers without college education, which meanwhile turned into a discussion about poor students, grade inflation and... those students having a lot of absences.

 

I have a question about that, as this is something I often tend to overlook. What were your experiences, whether as a student or as a professor, regarding attendance rules and expectations, i.e. the amount of absences allowed? What were you preferences, too?

 

Do you think persons of age (and most college and university students are) should even be required to attend in the first place (let us assume we speak of lectures here, not exercise-type of classes, such as in sciences, or seminars where presence is needed, but "only" regular lessons), and if so, which amount of absences was / is / should be allowed in your case? Any absences, or just "excused" / preannounced / medical ones?

 

I know this varies greatly from institution to institution and from professor to professor, but I am curious in your experiences. Thank you in advance.

 

I went to a small liberal arts college for undergrad where most of my professors took attendance. I never had any classes that consisted only of lectures. Discussion of reading assignments and other interactive exercises were a part of every class period. In most classes, students with poor attendance did not do well. My Russian prof was known for calling students who missed her class and even had me leave class a few times to go call a student who frequently overslept.

 

I attended the Graduate Institute at St. John's College, which, as a previous poster described, holds classes around a large table. It was obvious who was absent and who had not done the reading.

 

I just finished my first semester teaching composition at a local community college. This class met from 7:45-noon once a week, and I marked attendance and tardies for every class. One absence was the equivalent of missing four hours of class. Each class consisted of various writing and grammar exercises, peer reviews, paper presentations, individual conferences with me, and in the last month library research sessions. It was a remedial class with a mix of lower-level recent high school graduates and adults returning to school after some time in the work force. I began the semester with 22 students enrolled, the maximum for this course, and by the end of the semester attendance averaged 12 students, with only 6 or 7 of those being on time to class. The students who were in class and on time each week were the ones who made the most improvements and who passed the class.

 

I gave a participation grade for each class period which took into account attendance, being on time, having homework complete and ready to turn in, quality of in-class work, willingness to participate in various activities, and use of forbidden electronic devices. Yes, contrary to the policy in my syllabus banning the use of cell phones and such during class and my frequent reminders to that effect, I still had students texting their way through class on a regular basis. I do think I was very reasonable, even generous in some cases, in assigning those participation grades. For example, I exempted some students from a participation grade or two when they communicated ahead of time a valid need to miss class and made arrangements to turn in their essays early.

 

As a previous poster mentioned, keeping track of attendance and tardies has been very useful in dealing with one particularly difficult student. I can fully justify his failing grade knowing that he was absent 3 times, tardy (by 30-45 minutes at least) 8 times, and on time 3 times all semester and that he did not turn in one essay or complete several other assignments, including 3/4 of the final paper requirements.

 

I am still trying to decide how to approach attendance in future classes. I think I will always mark absences and tardies, but I am not sure how much of a role it will play in assigning final grades. For the remedial classes, I think I will continue with my current policy with some modifications. For higher level classes, I am undecided. The college where I teach is working to make all classes interactive with a lot of technology use and group work. In that kind of setting, I would think attendance might be more important than in a lecture-based class.

 

I know this is a little off topic of the OP, but I am also trying to decided how much course material to make available online. This semester I posted my syllabus, all homework assignments, and all the essay rubrics. I did not post any of the in-class assignments. Next semester I will be incorporating more technology in class and am wondering if making that available online will only encourage students to skip class more often. I don't know how I feel about that.

[cathmom]

From a penny pincher perspective, it honestly never occurred to me to NOT go to a class I paid a small fortune to be able to attend. In fact, I tended to be royal ticked if the professor didn't show up on time or cut out early.

 

So I would be there baring sickness.

 

I'm just saying I don't think it should have anything to do with the grade.:)

 

One of my graduate school professors said that college was the only place where people were happy NOT to get their money's worth! This professor also forgot our class one day, and the next time he had made up a list "Top Ten Reasons I Missed Class" which was hysterical!

[happypamama]

I went to a huge university, where most low-level gen ed classes had 200-300, and I had one gen ed class that had about 1,000 students in it. No way did the professors take attendance for those classes, and even when students were in class, half of them were doing something other than actually listening and taking notes (this was before texting). It was generally fairly easy to skip a lot of classes and still pass, if you had access to good notes. I kind of think gen ed requirements are a little silly (I think it's rather pointless to insist that people be "well-rounded," because in reality, they're not going to be that way as adults, unless they choose to be), so while I did go to class most of the time, I also didn't worry about skipping a few now and then.

 

Otoh, I was in the honors program and also part of a very small major (we graduated 3 the year I graduated, and that was a lot for one year), and along with my gen eds, I had some very high quality honors and major classes. Attendance wasn't mandatory, exactly, and I agree with that (I think it should still be the student's responsibility to choose to go or not go), but many of the teachers did count participation as a large portion of the grade. The professors also knew if you weren't there often, and that probably counted when you looked for recommendations and such. If you were struggling, your visible efforts, like attending and participating, counted for a lot. I thought long and hard before skipping any of those classes and rarely did. I still don't think attendance should be mandatory, and I'm not sure I agree with participating being part of the grade, but I can see why it would be just one facet -- perhaps someone who isn't a strong writer or a strong test-taker would be good at participating in discussions, for instance.

[BamaTanya]

I'm pretty sure some departments don't have one. I instruct Teacher Education classes, and I have heard the rationale that we are preparing TEACHERS who will be expected to be punctual and dependable on the job. That makes sense to me. Students who miss 4 class meetings have their grade dropped one letter, and students who miss more will have to repeat the course. (A 'D' won't count toward TE requirements.)

I'd prefer not to worry with attendance, so I assign a written response question at the beginning of each meeting that counts toward the students' grade. That way I have hard evidence of a student's presence.

If a student fails, I have to note the last date of attendance for financial aid records.

It amuses me that students will write on their course evaluations: "Don't have the class at 8 a.m." What time do they think they'll have to show up to teach school???

[bettyandbob]

I think in the 4 year I attended a "public ivy", I missed class 5 times. I was keenly aware of the cost of my education and felt obligated to attend all classes. This was back when there was no powerpoint and a recording of a lecture was done by setting a cassette player near the podium before class started. If changes were made to class schedule, syllabus, exams, it was posted on a black board behind a podium during class one day. Unless your were there to see it or a classmate told you, you wouldn't know. I majored in Chemistry, and I think science and math classes tend to need a student attend more because professors tend to solve a few problems from problem sets as well as lecture. It helps to see someone work the problem when you are stuck.

 

Despite my regular attendance, I think attendance only need to count for small classes that thrive on discussion, or laboratory work. If a person can appropriately finish assignments on time and perform well on exams without attending class, that person should still be graded on his/her performance, not attendance.

 

I think I would have loved to have the professor's powerpoint slides or even an outline of his lecture before each class--to take to class and add to.

Edited May 1, 2011 by betty

[Night Elf]

I'm in college right now and most classes take attendance. Sometimes they leave after class has started.

 

When I took a freshman level ECON class, the professor didn't require attendance. She also put powerpoints and test study questions online. But her powerpoints were more like bulleted points and her lectures filled in the rest of the material. Still, I felt bad for her because we never had more than a dozen students show up each class, and there were 36 students enrolled. She often commented that she didn't understand how people passed her class if they never attended. The week of an exam, there were multiple requests on the discussion board for missing notes. I only shared my notes one time with a girl who was in every class but one. I knew she wasn't just being lazy.

 

I guess I look at attendance in another way, from the MOM perspective. I see these college students and I always wonder if their parents would care how the kids were blowing off class and doing the minimal amount of work to pass the class. I also see obvious cheating. These attitudes are quite prevalent even in my education classes. It's nice to know these young people are going to graduate and teach children. There were several in my science class last semester who actually teased me for always being prepared.

 

Of course there are students that don't have parents financing their education, but I don't think that excuses them from lazy behavior. I won't be paying for my kids' college tuitions but I sure hope they take their classes more seriously than many of the young people I'm in class with.

[twoforjoy]

I have a question about that, as this is something I often tend to overlook. What were your experiences, whether as a student or as a professor, regarding attendance rules and expectations, i.e. the amount of absences allowed? What were you preferences, too?

 

I teach introductory composition courses, and there is a lot of small group discussions and exercises and peer workshopping, so it's important to me that as many students show up at any given class as possible. I tend to not be as strict with my attendance policy as I should. Every semester I say that this time I'm really going to crack down and deduct points for every absence after the third unexcused one, but then I back down.

 

Partly it's because it is a huge PITA to deal with the excused vs. unexcused issue. Partly it's because every semester I have a couple of students who really do have extraordinary circumstances that warrant special consideration. Partly it's because in the end most (though not all) of the students who don't show up regularly end up doing poorly anyway.

 

My main issue, as an instructor, is with students who routinely miss class, hand in work late, skip handing in drafts, etc., but then expect private tutorials via e-mail and during office hours and after class. It drives me crazy when students expect me to catch them up via e-mail with everything they missed in class, or to sit down and review a draft with them that they submitted too late for me to comment on when I responded to all the other drafts. If a student doesn't come to class but submits work on time, does a good job with it, and manages to keep up with what's going on, then I can't say it bothers me all that much. That rarely happens, though. Usually the students who miss a lot of classes end up having a lot of difficulty keeping up and dealing with them ends up taking up a lot of my outside-of-class work time. It's very frustrating, and something I need to get stricter about.

 

I do take attendance into consideration when grading. I do think, personally, that effort matters and should factor into a grade. I work at a university that has both a very good honors and scholarship program that attracts some great students, as well as an open admission policy for anybody who graduated from a high school in the city where we're located. That means I get an enormous range of skills when I'm teaching the introductory comp course (which everybody needs to take), ranging from students who are already writing strong academic prose to students who are unable to construct a sentence in standard written English. If I didn't take effort into consideration, I'd pretty much need to write off about 1/4 of my class based on their diagnostic essay; instead, if a student works hard, shows improvement, and seems like they are moving in the right direction, they can pass, even if their skills are still much, much weaker than many of their classmates.

 

I have a student this term who attended one--yes, one--class the entire semester, and seems to think he can pass the class. He is delusional.

Edited May 1, 2011 by twoforjoy

[G5052]

Still, I, felt bad for her because we never had more than a dozen students show up each class, and there were 36 students enrolled. She often commented that she didn't understand how people passed her class if they never attended.

 

The reality is that very few pass my class without attending at least 80% of the classes, but I've fought the attendance battle and I decided that we're all adults and can choose for ourselves. And I've never had a student who claimed to know it "all" on Day 1 finish with an "A," and many of those actually fail. I have one now who is constantly emailing me with descriptions of all of his/her professional qualifications and reasons why he/she shouldn't be failing, even though he/she is failing because he/she hasn't bothered to turn in a significant number of assignments.

 

Mean old professor, I am.

[Murphy101]

It amuses me that students will write on their course evaluations: "Don't have the class at 8 a.m." What time do they think they'll have to show up to teach school???

 

The last college class I took waswhilepregnant with my 5th dc.

So there is the usual intro stuff going on.

Two girls in front of me have declared they are seeking a degree to be elementary teachers.

Then my turn comes. I'm a home schooling mom of almost 5.

The two girls gasp and exclaim, "OMG! I could never do that. FIVE kids and homeschooling them all day?!"

 

A rather perplexed me asks if they do know what their degree work will entail?

 

Their reply?

 

Yeah, but that is way different. We won't be dealing with our own kids.

 

:001_huh: uhhuh. Yes. Well. Um. Thank goodness?:confused:

[regentrude]

My grade structure is set up in such a way that students can earn points not only for the three exams, but also for homework and in-class quizzes. This is to encourage homework completion and reading of the reading assignment before class.

Honestly, I think I should not have to "encourage" university students to read the text and do the homework and would much prefer just to give exams - it is, however, general policy and expected by the university to implement measures like this. We are supposed to hold students' hands and teach them the study skills they should have been taught in high school. So, students need to submit homework and need to take pop quizzes in class. Beyond that, I do not take attendance - but homework, quizzes, and some in-class group work count towards the grade.

My students know at the beginning of the semester that these add up to a third of the available points in the class. The tests are of such a difficulty that diligent students appreciate having the opportunity to earn a part of their credit through sheer diligence (homework and attendance).

I announce that there will be at least two more assignments that I am counting towards the grade, so that each student can miss at least two things without penalty. (In reality, I give 5-7 more quizzes/homeworks than needed for the grade.) The students who fail will typically have done less than half of the available quizzes and homeworks. I also allow students to submit homework without being present in class - they can have a friend turn it in.

 

In my own university education in Germany, the course grade was completely determined by one written exam and one oral Final. Attendance and homework were tools for the student to achieve success in these exams and did not have to be rewarded by giving points. I would prefer it this way.

 

ETA: The large courses in our department operate on a 2 lecture/2 recitations format. there are occasional pop quizzes in lecture; in recitation, students are called at random to put their previously completed homework problems on the board without using their notes. this boardwork is part of their grade. A student who is not present receives a grade of zero.

Edited May 1, 2011 by regentrude

[Mejane]

In my own university education in Germany, the course grade was completely determined by one written exam and one oral Final. Attendance and homework were tools for the student to achieve success in these exams and did not have to be rewarded by giving points. I would prefer it this way.

 

:iagree: I don't feel I missed anything because I knew the material and did well on tests. If one's learning style is geared differently, one should have that option, imo. Of course one must attend labs and discussion groups, etc. Attendance for its own sake? Meh.

[regentrude]

:iagree: I don't feel I missed anything because I knew the material and did well on tests. If one's learning style is geared differently, one should have that option, imo. Of course one must attend labs and discussion groups, etc. Attendance for its own sake? Meh.

 

In that case, the student should approach the professor and ask to be allowed to take the class as an Independent Study course. The professor might be OK with it and might have a setup for grade calculation based only on exams.

I have, this year, two students in a class who can not make the class time but must take the course - they are taking it independent study. they both prefer to still turn in their homework and take the option of having homework count part of the grade - which is rather smart of them because doing homework is much easier than succeeding on the exam ;-)

 

For the student who "knows it all", credit by examination is another route to go. Depending on the school, he may not even have to pay for the course and can earn credit for free.

[tex-mex]

I went to a small Christian university. Were were only allowed to miss a certain amount of classes, like maybe 3 absences per class/semester. The vast majority of the classes met 2 days/week. You could not pass if you missed too much.

 

:iagree: I also attended a small liberal arts Christian college with this same policy. In the days before Powerpoint or technology. Whiteboards were new in the 1980's, for example.

[tex-mex]

From a penny pincher perspective, it honestly never occurred to me to NOT go to a class I paid a small fortune to be able to attend. In fact, I tended to be royal ticked if the professor didn't show up on time or cut out early.

 

So I would be there baring sickness.

 

I'm just saying I don't think it should have anything to do with the grade.:)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I still recall one class where all of us were waiting on the professor. He was late. Someone finally declared it was 15 minutes and they were leaving. Some of us stayed and the prof showed up 30 min late. He apologized and said we could leave. My attitude was I was paying $$$ for this class, dude. :glare:

[Mergath]

I'm not a big fan of attendance policies. I understand the reasoning behind them, because when I was in college I saw many, many students who never showed up for class and then promptly failed.

 

However, I went to the U of MN, and attendance requirements would have driven me insane. A few of the classes I took were nothing more than the prof reading excerpts directly from the book displayed via PP. I had one astronomy class like that. I went three times- the first day, midterms, and finals- and got an A. If I'd had to go to every class to listen to someone read the book aloud, I'd have gone insane.

 

Also, there are times when you can't get into a required class for several years, and by that time, the class mind-numbingly boring because it's three years below your level. Had that happen a couple times too. Luckily, there was no attendance policy, so I skipped a lot and got As.

 

What I WOULD like to see is more schools institute a no-cell phone policy for all classes. Sitting in class texting is unbelievably rude.

[Amira]

It's very common in the country I live in to have students miss many, many classes. Sometimes it's hard not to because nearly all of the universities don't allow students to plan their own courses or schedules, and the schedule changes throughout the semester. That obviously makes it difficult to attend your classes every day. It also makes it difficult to get a decent education.

 

As a result (at least, as one contributing factor), there is a huge problem with corruption in universities here. My husband taught at one university and had students who had never attended any classes all semester expect to be passed, either because their parents were influential or because they paid a bribe. I don't believe he had any students with awful attendence who were able to pass the final exam.

 

Personally, I did find it was worth attending classes when I was in college because most professors tended to test students on what was said in class, not on what we read in our textbooks.

[Penelope]

I don't think attendance should be taken for the larger, intro-level lecture classes. Students quickly learn which classes they need to attend for content reasons, and which they don't.

 

I would hope that in the course of obtaining an undergraduate degree, at least a fair number of upper level courses would be of quality such that a student couldn't get by without attending. Many of my college courses were smaller seminars that required extensive reading and involved class discussion. There is no way I could have skipped classes and gotten even a barely-passing grade. Isn't that one of the reasons someone goes to college in the first place? To discuss ideas with professors and fellow learners and develop his own thinking?

[Night Elf]

What I WOULD like to see is more schools institute a no-cell phone policy for all classes. Sitting in class texting is unbelievably rude.

 

I've seen more people on their laptops than texting. I've been known to do that during exceptionally boring lectures. :)

[DianeW88]

Only a handful of university classes that I attended cared whether or not you showed up. Smaller classes, pertinent to my major, did require attendance and you failed if you weren't there. In lecture classes, you were only graded on test scores and you never had to attend any of the lectures if you chose not to. Of course, these were large, "101" level, general requirement classes with as much as 900 students in each lecture. Taking attendance wasn't even a possibility.

[Amirah]

i was a student and when i was in undergrad i attended depending on the class. labs i always attended class and foreign language classes were mandatory. but lecture classes sometimes. i was taking british lit and it was a small class of 30 people and i did attend but i had a biology class that had 150 people in the class and the teacher put all of the notes online. it was also an 8am class. i didnt make it alot of time because it so big i really couldn't learn in that huge of a class(i had taken biology the previous year and it only had about 15 ppl in the class.) so i went once a week and the other time i did my own notes from the materials she provided.

 

i don't think they should make attendance mandatory. At some point people have to decide for themselves am i going to get up or stop what i'm doing and go to class or am i going to be a slacker and possibly fail. making it mandatory is like holding their hand and it doesn't give them the opportunity to make it on their own if that makes sense.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do not remember if there was an attendance policy. I do know that I would not have even considered skipping a class. Of course the fact that I was a paid note-taker and was paid to tutor others in all my major classes might have had something to do with that.;) But even without that incentive, I honestly would not have considered skipping. Many of my classes did have a significant portion of the grade dependent on class participation so I don't know how you could get a good grade otherwise.

[KidsHappen]

I went to one of the larger state universities. I don't specifically recall attendence being mandatory but I do remember that a great deal of test material came directly from lectures so you either needed to be there or get your notes from someone you trusted to take good notes. Some of the smaller classroom size classes graded for particiation which I always maxed out on. I was the kind of student that if I wasn't there, everyone missed me. I am not saying that everyone loved me just that I participated in discussions a lot. Lecture hall size class were rarely graded on participation because there rarely was any. The professor lectured, you took notes. Of course, labs were required. I personally felt like if the professor knew your name in a positive it probably positively influenced your grades and I would hazzard to guess that some of my professors would probably still recognize my name. Can you say Hermione Granger? :D

[Rosie_0801]

Funnily enough here, a huge drop in attendance occurred when the government fiddled around with the student social security payment so it was almost impossible to live on it unless you still lived at home and didn't have to pay board.

 

Rosie