Iowa Wrestler Defaults Rather Than Face a Girl

[JFSinIL]

Not wrestling, but in my dd's martial arts classes the do work in floor work, and the instructor has told the kids it is important for the girls to get to practice with the boys, too - they need to know how to defend themselves from a real attacker, which would NOT be another female, probably.

 

I think as long as the kids are padded/protected appropriately, if a girl wrestles well enough to qualify to fight a boy at her level, then she should be allowed to do so.

 

(I might add, when sparring, there are a few adult males who have made the mistake of trying to "go easy" on my 5'2", 99lb dd. They don't make that mistake a second time! :-) Little Black Belt Miss is TOUGH!!!)

Edited February 18, 2011 by JFSinIL

[Renee in NC]

There was one little boy who cheered in my DD's rec cheer league last year. Apparently, his older brother is a college cheerleader, and he wanted to cheer, too. I do wonder how this will play out when he gets to a level where stunting is part of competition, since that requires physical contact.

 

My oldest son's high school has a male cheerleader. He became a cheerleader because, well, that's where the girls are!:lol: As far as I know, he has no problem with the physical contact.:tongue_smilie: That *does* make me want to make sure that my dd does not cheerlead with boys.;)

 

(And yes, I do know this - my Dad talked to his Mom because he is the younger brother of one of my brother's good friends from high school.)

[LG Gone Wild]

Except for that there is a lack of female competitors which is why the girls are up against the boys.

 

It would be segregated, I am sure, if there was an actual female team for the girls to join.

 

This non segregated thing will be probably be short-term (in the grande scheme of things) IF it gains popularity among the girls.

[AlmiraGulch]

No, not blaming the girl. If the rules state she can play, then she can play. HOWEVER, I don't think they should be allowed to play in the first place. I don't think my son should have to potentially touch a girl in a way that makes him feel uncomfortable. It's a high contact sport and I just don't think it's appropriate. I think if girls want to wrestle, then they should find an all girl wrestling team.

 

I see your point. I really do. I just completely disagree. It's a sport. It's not a game of grab-a$$ between teens. If they're able to compete at that level they should have the maturity to do so.

 

I'm not at all opposed to an all girls team. But if there isn't one, the girl shouldn't be prohibited from participating because your son (or anyone's....I'm not picking on your son here) may feel uncomfortable.

[MyBlueLobsters]

Except for that there is a lack of female competitors which is why the girls are up against the boys.

 

It would be segregated, I am sure, if there was an actual female team for the girls to join.

 

This non segregated thing will be probably be short-term (in the grande scheme of things) IF it gains popularity among the girls.

 

Do you think there would be more interest if they offered an all female team? I certainly wouldn't have wanted to join a boys team (or an all girls team for that matter, LOL) It may take some time, but I'll bet the interest among the girls would increase if they started all female teams.

[LG Gone Wild]

Do you think there would be more interest if they offered an all female team? I certainly wouldn't have wanted to join a boys team (or an all girls team for that matter, LOL) It may take some time, but I'll bet the interest among the girls would increase if they started all female teams.

 

How it works is that a few lonesome girls have go out and get mat burn with the boys. There will be witnesses. Some will decide that they could do that too. Then when enough girls have signed up on the squad, a new team will for them will be established.

[AlmiraGulch]

Do you think there would be more interest if they offered an all female team? I certainly wouldn't have wanted to join a boys team (or an all girls team for that matter, LOL) It may take some time, but I'll bet the interest among the girls would increase if they started all female teams.

 

There might be. I think we'll find out one day.

 

And for the record, you can leave me off either team, too! :D

[DarcyB]

I think as long as the kids are padded/protected appropriately, if a girl wrestles well enough to qualify to fight a boy at her level, then she should be allowed to do so./QUOTE]

 

She isn't being denied the right to do so. She can still wrestle with other wrestlers who don't hold the same beliefs as this young man. No one is saying she can't. He's just saying he won't. Nothing is being taken away from her.

[Donna]

I can definitely see and understand the boy's reasons. My son is a wrestler and my brother was a wrestler. We have had discussions about the "no possible way to win" scenario for the boy...you win "so what it's a girl" but you lose and "you lost to a girl."

 

My boys and I all have black belts in taekwondo and participated in sparring each gender and also doing aikido, judo, and self defense techniques. There is a huge difference. Many wrestling moves require one to grab places that a boy might not feel comfortable grabbing a girl and vice versa...such as a crotch lock, claw and spiral which requires one to hold across the chest, etc....

 

Female wrestling is in the Olympics and there are places for girls to compete against other girls though it is not all that popular yet. If my son to come up against a girl and he has once or twice in midget wrestling (not yet as a high school wrestler), he would treat her the same as any boy he wrestled since she made the choice to compete.

[Joker]

I see your point. I really do. I just completely disagree. It's a sport. It's not a game of grab-a$$ between teens. If they're able to compete at that level they should have the maturity to do so.

 

Just being involved with a team doesn't make one mature. I knew plenty of extremely immature boys that played football, baseball, basketball... Many articles I read said he was a favorite to win and now he can only hope for third. I think he showed great maturity by sticking to his convictions and taking the loss.

[pqr]

Just being involved with a team doesn't make one mature. I knew plenty of extremely immature boys that played football, baseball, basketball... Many articles I read said he was a favorite to win and now he can only hope for third. I think he showed great maturity by sticking to his convictions and taking the loss.

 

A young man of character and conviction.......my bet is that he will grow into a man of character, something that is all too rare these days.

 

Bravo.

[AlmiraGulch]

Just being involved with a team doesn't make one mature. I knew plenty of extremely immature boys that played football, baseball, basketball... Many articles I read said he was a favorite to win and now he can only hope for third. I think he showed great maturity by sticking to his convictions and taking the loss.

 

Except I'm not talking about that specific boy's level of maturity or immaturity. I think the issue with him was entirely different that what this person was talking about.

 

And yes, there is no guarantee of maturity, but some people here seem to be saying that any time boys and girls are in close contact there is going to be a sexual undertone. I say that's absolutely not necessarily the case. They should be expected to be focused on their sport if they're playing high school sports. And honestly, I think most would be.

[Aubrey]

I see your point. I really do. I just completely disagree. It's a sport. It's not a game of grab-a$$ between teens. If they're able to compete at that level they should have the maturity to do so.

 

I'm not at all opposed to an all girls team. But if there isn't one, the girl shouldn't be prohibited from participating because your son (or anyone's....I'm not picking on your son here) may feel uncomfortable.

 

But it's ok to ban boys from playing the sport if they feel uncomfortable wrestling girls?

 

I'm not sure that's what you're saying, but Bill definitely is.

 

If the boy is a dishonorable thief, then the girl is a floozy. (I think neither, but if it's fair to apply one side's standards to the other side, then I think reciprocity should surely bring reason to the argument. Surely.)

 

And, Bill, he didn't "break the rules"--it's completely legal to forfeit. :confused:

[LisaKinVA]

The only time I wrestled with boys...and even when it started out completely innocent and it didn't wind up with a sexual undertone was when I was wrestling my brothers. I had 3. I learned to wrestle pretty darn well.

 

However, if I had been in a competitive sport, from my perspective, it's all about winning... it would have changed my entire perspective... but I'm very focused that way (just ask my dh).

 

I probably would raise my son to attempt to think of her as just another competitor. However, in the end, it would be his call. I think it IS possible to separate how you would treat a woman every day, and in a competitive environment.

 

Although, if anyone watched this week's Chuck... I had to say, thought he's still REALLY cute about not wanting to fight a girl. BUT, part of me thinks it's a bit dumb too.

 

As a girl wrestler, I'd probably be dissapointed, but take the win and move on, it would give me more time to focus and prepare for the next match. I can't say I would have felt "cheated."

 

As a debater, I certainly didn't quibble with getting a bye and advancing without debating... or having a team I was scheduled to debate get sick and not be able to compete... or the team that didn't think they could win with the judge they had, so they threw the debate on purpose. I took the win and went on.

 

IME, it was their loss... not mine.

 

I don't think the boy was wrong for standing on his convictions. And I do think it's possible for girls/boys to compete in agressive, competitive environments without sexual inuendo. At some point, in some careers, it will be not only expected, but necessary.

 

As a side note, I *do* think that there needs to be EXPLICIT legal/non-punitive procedures for dealing with girls who enter a boys arena. A legal move is a legal move regardless of whether performed on a boy or a girl. You can't have that cake and eat it too. A claim should not receive any merit until after the hearing... and if found to be falsely laid... the girl banned from the activity OR ANY male-dominated activity for at least a year (if not more).

[pqr]

Come on Faith, this is a total straw man argument. A boy wrestling a girl in front of a huge crowd at a state wrestling championship is in danger of being charged with molestation???

 

Really?

 

Bill

 

 

No of course not, such a thing would never happen; charges of sexual assault would never come from the mat. What were people thinking?

 

Oh maybe this.....

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19wrestler.html?pagewanted=all

[lionfamily1999]

 

But it's ok to ban boys from playing the sport if they feel uncomfortable wrestling girls?

That's what I was wondering. For the people that believe he cheated, what should his punishment have been?

[Murphy101]

I applaud him. The girl also joined, knowing she was a minority in the sport and that this was a possibility.

 

Personally, I think it is OK to have gender separation on some things. Feminism is carried too far sometimes. If women want to wrestle, then have a women's team. Basketball does that.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't think this has anything to do with sex, maturity, or ability.

 

I think there are some men, heaven knows only a few these days, who strongly believe (tho religion might have nothing to do with it at all) that women are to be elevated to ladies and treated as ladies, not as men.

 

He didn't cheat of her of anything by insisting on treating her as a lady. (forfeit is entirely within the scope of the rules)

 

It doesn't matter if he is the last male on earth to view women that way.

It doesn't matter if all the women in the world want to be treated like men.

 

I applaud him for doing so and managing to do so respectfully.

 

This is not self defense training. This is not training for life or death (such as police/fire). I'm not seeing a higher purpose to a boy wrestling a girl.

[AlmiraGulch]

But it's ok to ban boys from playing the sport if they feel uncomfortable wrestling girls?

 

I'm not sure that's what you're saying, but Bill definitely is.

 

If the boy is a dishonorable thief, then the girl is a floozy. (I think neither, but if it's fair to apply one side's standards to the other side, then I think reciprocity should surely bring reason to the argument. Surely.)

 

And, Bill, he didn't "break the rules"--it's completely legal to forfeit. :confused:

 

I don't think the boy is necessarily dishonorable. In fact, I think he probably did what he thought was the honorable thing to do. And I certainly don't think the girl is a floozy (actually can't see how that even applies here, but I'll go with it...)

 

I also know that it's legal for him to forfeit. But I also think that if he forfeited because (as someone else brought up) his opponent was some other protected class there would be quite an uproar.

 

What if all the boys decided to forfeit because they didn't want to wrestle perfectly qualified girls? It's just a slippery slope for me. And I get his reasons, and that it's allowed. I'm just not sure it should be.

[Murphy101]

What if all the boys decided to forfeit because they didn't want to wrestle perfectly qualified girls?

 

I'd be absolutely estatic to see that many courageous young men.

[zaichiki]

I think he was honest and was living according to his conscience. I can't fault him for that. I remember my grandfather telling my brother when he was young "you never, ever hit a girl. EVER." For some people brought up that way, hitting a girl or in this case engaging a girl in a way where she could get hurt, just goes against everything they've ever been taught, kwim? I think it's a good thing that he respects the girl and I think he was being chivalrous. According to their stats, I think he probably would have won the match and I think he knew that too which is why he bowed out gracefully. I think the girls should be able to compete if they want to, but I think wrestling is one of those sports where it's good to have separate teams for men and women. Just my humble opinion for what it's worth. :)

:iagree: in a nutshell

[jenn1129]

I'd be absolutely estatic to see that many courageous young men.

 

 

:iagree:

[AlmiraGulch]

I'd be absolutely estatic to see that many courageous young men.

 

What makes that courageous? Serious question.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I'm wearing the other shoe here.. I have a boy in an all-girls sport. My son does synchronized swimming. He's on a team. He's the only boy. In fact, last year, in the whole province, they were only two boys who competed, and they were in different age groups and different categories.

 

Synchronized swimming is also a "contact" sport. If you're going to boost someone out of the water, you will get your hands on her butt to boost her. Or inside her thigh, close to the crutch. It's just part of the sport. As a boy he is called to do this just as much as a girl would.

 

My son once explained to me that, when you're underwater, unable to breathe, you just want to get the boost done as quickly as possible, while keeping to the music, you're concentrating on counting, and egg beating, and who cares where the hand lands!! There's no sexual thoughts going on.

 

I'm just glad the team accepted a boy, and that my son can do the sport he enjoys.

[FriedClams]

This is why girls shouldn't be allowed in these types of sports. There are some things they just need to leave to the boys. OR form a 'girls only' wrestling team.

 

*ducking*

:iagree:

Completely.

[QueenCat]

I train with men and soooo at first, it's weird (the grappling) because of the close contact but because it's so combative, you get over that real quick. It's a lot less s@xual than you think (actually, it isn't at all but it's hard to believe unless you've done it)

 

 

Perhaps for adults, but for a teenage boy, it could be very different.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm wearing the other shoe here.. I have a boy in an all-girls sport. My son does synchronized swimming. He's on a team. He's the only boy. In fact, last year, in the whole province, they were only two boys who competed, and they were in different age groups and different categories.

 

Synchronized swimming is also a "contact" sport. If you're going to boost someone out of the water, you will get your hands on her butt to boost her. Or inside her thigh, close to the crutch. It's just part of the sport. As a boy he is called to do this just as much as a girl would.

 

My son once explained to me that, when you're underwater, unable to breathe, you just want to get the boost done as quickly as possible, while keeping to the music, you're concentrating on counting, and egg beating, and who cares where the hand lands!! There's no sexual thoughts going on.

 

I'm just glad the team accepted a boy, and that my son can do the sport he enjoys.

 

That's awesome! Thank you for sharing your story.

[Lady Florida.]

Defaulting robbed the young woman of the opportunity she earned to compete. I don't find that to be sporting or gentlemanly behavior in the least.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:This is what I think. I had to go 5 pages into this thread before I found anyone who considered how the girl felt about it.

 

ETA: I apologize Chucki, I missed your post on it. Still, 4 pages of no one considering the girl...

Edited February 18, 2011 by floridamom

[RanchGirl]

I applaud him. The girl also joined, knowing she was a minority in the sport and that this was a possibility.

 

Personally, I think it is OK to have gender separation on some things. Feminism is carried too far sometimes. If women want to wrestle, then have a women's team. Basketball does that.

 

:iagree: It's silly to say he robbed her of anything. She basically received a bye and continues on to the next level of competition. For her (or others on her behalf) to complain to the press is ridiculous. This young man made a great personal sacrifice in order to stay true to his conscience and ethics. As a society, we need more of that type of behavior, and less "you have to let me _______ or I'll cry victim."

[LG Gone Wild]

Perhaps for adults, but for a teenage boy, it could be very different.

 

It's fighting. I don't know how to explain it except that it's hard to have s@xual thoughts when fighting off submissions and chokes and throws and takedowns (submission grappling).

[katemary63]

But really, he sees men & women as different. She sees them as the same. W/out making a moral judgement, both perspectives are equally valid.

 

:confused: Huh?? Is it really a valid perspective to see men and women as "the same?" (I agree with most everything else in your post.) But here lies the crux of the problem. Men and women are not the same. It is unreasonable to even say so. Why is that a bad thing? Why is "exactly the same" something we even want? I, for one, am glad I'm not a man and not at all like a man. All this everything has to be equal and exactly the same for everybody crap is rediculous. Men are not women and women are not men. There is such a thing as inequality that is fair and reasonable - such as requiring firefighters to possess a certain strength level and the fact that most women can not meet the requirement. And then there is inequality that is unfair and unreasonable - such as paying a man a higher wage then a woman doing the exact same work or visa versa. There is nothing automatically wrong with inequality between men and women in and of itself outside of a context. Seperating men and women for the purpose of contact sports falls into this category as far as I'm concerned. It's isn't "unfair." It's reasonable based on inherent differences. Why are we trying to eliminate all the differences between us? Pretty soon seperate bathrooms will be illegal, for goodness sakes. I for one, don't like the direction this is taking at all and don't mind saying so. It's delusional.

Edited February 18, 2011 by katemary63

[Lady Florida.]

He has been taught from the cradle up to not act in an aggressive manner towards females. Period.

 

My son has been taught not to be aggressive towards anyone. Period. But wrestling is a sport, with rules, and the match can be stopped if the official deems it necessary. Apples and oranges.

[Cricket]

:iagree:

 

I don't think this has anything to do with sex, maturity, or ability.

 

I think there are some men, heaven knows only a few these days, who strongly believe (tho religion might have nothing to do with it at all) that women are to be elevated to ladies and treated as ladies, not as men.

 

He didn't cheat of her of anything by insisting on treating her as a lady. (forfeit is entirely within the scope of the rules)

 

It doesn't matter if he is the last male on earth to view women that way.

It doesn't matter if all the women in the world want to be treated like men.

 

I applaud him for doing so and managing to do so respectfully.

 

This is not self defense training. This is not training for life or death (such as police/fire). I'm not seeing a higher purpose to a boy wrestling a girl.

 

I'll just stick with :iagree:

[elizabeth]

I think his reasoning is specious. A gentleman knows what he is signing on for and sticks to the commitment made. Poorly thought out and gets no points from this old battle ax. He never should have gone out for wrestling knowing he might have to compete against a female if that is not permitted by his patriarchal religious beliefs. I also believe that if you decide to home educate you opt out of the entire enchilada of public education. Not just when it dam* well suits you. You want independence in curricula, the ability to teach religion as science or teach Latin instead of French etc. that is fine but do not complain about competing in sports in the public school setting. You cannot have it all.That said, I do not think it is physiogically fair for men to wrestle women due to the density and type of muscle mass differential. I cannot imagine that difference being made equal in such a way that they could compete on equal footing without this whole mess. Why not have wrestling competitions aligned along gender??

[simka2]

No of course not, such a thing would never happen; charges of sexual assault would never come from the mat. What were people thinking?

 

Oh maybe this.....

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19wrestler.html?pagewanted=all

 

This was my favorite quote from the article ;).

 

Katy Tudor, a friend of Preston’s and a wrestler, was more blunt. “You have to expect that things are going to happen that you don’t like; you’re going to get hurt,†she said. “If you don’t like it, go play basketball.â€

[LG Gone Wild]

I think his reasoning is specious. A gentleman knows what he is signing on for and sticks to the commitment made. Poorly thought out and gets no points from this old battle ax. He never should have gone out for wrestling knowing he might have to compete against a female if that is not permitted by his patriarchal religious beliefs. I also believe that if you decide to home educate you opt out of the entire enchilada of public education. Not just when it dam* well suits you. You want independence in curricula, the ability to teach religion as science or teach Latin instead of French etc. that is fine but do not complain about competing in sports in the public school setting. You cannot have it all.That said, I do not think it is physiogically fair for men to wrestle women due to the density and type of muscle mass differential. I cannot imagine that difference being made equal in such a way that they could compete on equal footing without this whole mess. Why not have wrestling competitions aligned along gender??

 

They would but not enough girls in the sport. And true, there is no comparison between man and woman.

[pqr]

I think his reasoning is specious. A gentleman knows what he is signing on for and sticks to the commitment made. Poorly thought out and gets no points from this old battle ax. He never should have gone out for wrestling knowing he might have to compete against a female if that is not permitted by his patriarchal religious beliefs.

 

So in your view this man was no gentleman? Should he never have run, knowing that he might have to compete on Sunday?

 

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b3liddell10lu.htm

 

From the site "But when he got to Paris, and the Olympics, his 100 meter race was going to be run on a Sunday. Eric refused to run on Sunday since it was the Sabbath. So he disqualified himself.....Eric Liddell had kept his commitment to his convictions of faith. "

 

I would argue that he defined the term and am glad to see a young man in this nation also stand up for his beliefs. Character still lives, it appears.

Edited February 18, 2011 by pqr

[akmommy]

While I applaud this boy for standing up for his beliefs I think the time to make a stand would have been when he was told it was a co-ed league. At that time he made a choice to join anyway and therefore should have wrestled.

 

JMO

[Heather in Neverland]

Wrestling is not aggression, it is sport.

 

Bill

 

It is a sport that includes physically aggressive behavior. If they were running track against each other or playing tennis against each other, etc., then fine. But if it involves aggressive physical contact between a boy and a girl then it violates OUR family values and NO SPORT is worth giving up our family values. YMMV.

[elizabeth]

So in your view this man was no gentleman?

 

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b3liddell10lu.htm

 

From the site "But when he got to Paris, and the Olympics, his 100 meter race was going to be run on a Sunday. Eric refused to run on Sunday since it was the Sabbath. So he disqualified himself.....Eric Liddell had kept his commitment to his convictions of faith. "

 

I would argue that he defined the term and am glad to see a young man in this nation also stand up for his beliefs. Character still lives, it appears.[/quote

Obviously our definitons of gentleman differ significantly and I intend to leave it at that.

[pqr]

Obviously our definitons of gentleman differ significantly.....

 

If you do not define Liddell as a gentleman then I might have to ask why not?....as I have never met anybody who does not hold him in the highest esteem.

Edited February 18, 2011 by pqr

[Surfside Academy]

It is a sport that includes physically aggressive behavior. If they were running track against each other or playing tennis against each other, etc., then fine. But if it involves aggressive physical contact between a boy and a girl then it violates OUR family values and NO SPORT is worth giving up our family values. YMMV.

 

Well said. Would anyone be questioning his decision to forfeit if he did it to observe the sabbath? Probably not...

 

Sorry Elizabeth...I didn't see your post!

Edited February 18, 2011 by Surfside Academy

[LG Gone Wild]

The way you phrase this, is to me very demeaning. "So what it's a girl". As if the fact the persons gender makes them less worthy.

 

Separate is not equal. Do you (a collective you) have any idea how many sports are made separate, so no one can possibly compare a man to a woman, because so many people feel that girls just can't compete with boys. I mean totally non contact sports. I can't remember the name of the sport, but shooting guns. One year a male and female team won. The male member of the team was the only one invited on the podium. After that the gun shooting sport was separated into male and female. Also the events were made so no compares could be made. The males shot at slightly longer distances. So no male would ever again have to suffer the disappointment of "losing to a girl".

 

I personally look forward to the time when everyone things of us as people first. No male, female, ... But above all else a person.

 

... And for those who want boys and girls sports for everything. What about people who are not quite one or the other? What criteria will you have to determine who is male and who is female. And what about those who do not belong to either group?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sports

 

So what will happen to any intersexperson. Will you ban anyone who is born that way from every competing in anything? Will you insist on anyone wanting to compete in a sport being tested for gender, and if they aren't 100% one or the other disallowing them the chance to participate.

 

And if you don't think inter sex people are uncommon, here is a wiki quote: (you are perfectly welcome to debate this, after all it is wiki)

 

According to the ISNA definition above, 1 percent of live births exhibit some degree of sexual ambiguity.[78] Between 0.1% and 0.2% of live births are ambiguous enough to become the subject of specialist medical attention, including surgery to disguise their sexual ambiguity.

 

... Okay this post is long enough, especially considering my iPad wouldn't let me scroll up and reread it.

 

In contact sports, gender makes all the difference. It doesn't mean much to outwrestle a girl. It's hard to imagine that you have any experience with combat for such a reaction (may be you do but hard to imagine).

[Kate CA]

I am quite willing to wager that you cannot provide a single example of this actually happening outside of your own mind.

 

Above in this very thread pqr already has:

 

No of course not, such a thing would never happen; charges of sexual assault would never come from the mat. What were people thinking?

 

Oh maybe this.....

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19wrestler.html?pagewanted=all

[Slartibartfast]

I can definitely see and understand the boy's reasons. My son is a wrestler and my brother was a wrestler. We have had discussions about the "no possible way to win" scenario for the boy...you win "so what it's a girl" but you lose and "you lost to a girl."

 

 

 

There are plenty of guys who have "lost to girls" or "beaten a girl" in one thing or another.

 

They learn to cope.

 

It isn't valid in wrestling anymore than it is in anything else in the world.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Sis

[lula]

I don't see why this argument is about sexuality at all. If a young gay man was in wrestling I would expect my son to wrestle him regardless of any potential sexual feelings that may or may not occur.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't see why this argument is about sexuality at all. If a young gay man was in wrestling I would expect my son to wrestle him regardless of any potential sexual feelings that may or may not occur.

 

Oh...that is a really good point.

[MyBlueLobsters]

I don't see why this argument is about sexuality at all. If a young gay man was in wrestling I would expect my son to wrestle him regardless of any potential sexual feelings that may or may not occur.

 

But it's still a boy.

[lula]

But it's still a boy.

 

I agree, earlier I stated that I wouldn't want my son wrestling a girl but to me sexuality isn't a part of this decision. If this was about potential sexuality it would be an insane mess. Gay boys could wrestle who exactly? To me this is NOT a sexuality issue. Persons who are intersex do have an intricate process in sports to determine where exactly they should compete, none of it is based on the sexuality of the individual. Erik Schinegger is a really interesting example and the documentary on his life is fascinating.

[zaichiki]

There are plenty of guys who have "lost to girls" or "beaten a girl" in one thing or another.

 

They learn to cope.

 

It isn't valid in wrestling anymore than it is in anything else in the world.

 

Hmmm... I dunno, Sis. I have to agree with Donna on this one. Socially, a boy can't win (win or lose). Regardless of how it "should" be or whether or not he can learn to cope, it's what a guy is gonna have to deal with in this situation.

 

I'm one who agrees that boys and girls should be on separate teams for contact sports. I grew up playing basketball, volleyball, and running track. I also studied Martial Arts. I have to admit that I had "something to prove" as a teenage martial artist and was thrilled when I beat the guys. (Honestly, most of them were "going easy" on me. They didn't really want to spar a girl.) But I also felt much more comfortable sparring against other girls (especially those who were serious).

 

Now I have boys and girls and I can see the flack boys give each other bout the competition/the gender issue. It's really out there. A boy just can't win for losing.

[Spy Car]

It is a sport that includes physically aggressive behavior. If they were running track against each other or playing tennis against each other, etc., then fine. But if it involves aggressive physical contact between a boy and a girl then it violates OUR family values and NO SPORT is worth giving up our family values. YMMV.

 

Never mind

 

Bill