AlmiraGulch Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 What do you think about this? http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-general/20110217/US.Girl.Wrestler.Default/ The defaulting wrestler is described as a home schooled (not sure why that's relevant) wrestler strongly favored in his class. He said he made the decision to default because wrestling is a combat sport that can get violent and, as a matter of conscience and faith, believes that it is inappropriate for him to engage with a girl in that manner. I'm torn. On the one hand, I respect the kid for holding his own values higher than those of a sporting event. On the other, I'm ticked. The girl qualified. Girls are not excluded from participation, and he knew that when he decided to participate in the sport. It kind of makes me mad that he denied her the opportunity to earn her win or loss. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I honestly can see his position. Wrestling... would be awkward with someone of the opposite gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I can see how it would be a no-win situation for him. If he plays and he beats her, there's no honor. If he plays and he loses, he's in an equally uncomfortable position. If anyone is hurt, he's either deeply embarrassed or at fault. If he doesn't play, then perhaps he's out-of-touch or chauvinistic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I applaud him. The girl also joined, knowing she was a minority in the sport and that this was a possibility. Personally, I think it is OK to have gender separation on some things. Feminism is carried too far sometimes. If women want to wrestle, then have a women's team. Basketball does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 This topic was brought a while ago. Back then I had one leaning, now I have another. I am still iffy but it could be he didn't want to lose to a girl. I train with men and soooo at first, it's weird (the grappling) because of the close contact but because it's so combative, you get over that real quick. It's a lot less s@xual than you think (actually, it isn't at all but it's hard to believe unless you've done it) There is a lot of good natured joking going on about men vs. women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Brings this to mind http://www.amazon.com/Theres-Girl-Hammerlock-Jerry-Spinelli/dp/1416939377/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1297975485&sr=8-1-catcorr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I see both sides as well. My boys & I take Judo (matwork in Judo is a lot like wrestling). We have one family in our club who will not let their sons fight girls. I totally understand this as a mom of boys, though at this point I still let mine randori with girls, and don't see this changing. However, from the perspective of a competitor, I know that the last thing on my mind when I'm fighting is the fact I'm a female and they're (often) a male. On the third hand, a Dad of a teenage girl in my club told me she might be bringing a friend to try it out, and it was someone she wanted to date, but she couldn't date for another 2.5 months, so to keep an eye on him, so as a coach, I will not be letting those two fight. Edited February 17, 2011 by JudoMom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetBean Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I applaud him. The girl also joined, knowing she was a minority in the sport and that this was a possibility. Personally, I think it is OK to have gender separation on some things. Feminism is carried too far sometimes. If women want to wrestle, then have a women's team. Basketball does that. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I applaud him. The girl also joined, knowing she was a minority in the sport and that this was a possibility. Personally, I think it is OK to have gender separation on some things. Feminism is carried too far sometimes. If women want to wrestle, then have a women's team. Basketball does that. See, I agree and disagree with this. I am fine with gender separation on some things also. Wrestling would be one of those I'd have no issue with, as with many other sports. That said, in the case it is NOT separated. I struggle with thinking you should be able to opt out just because you don't like something about it, as long as you had all the facts going in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I see both sides as well. My boys & I take Judo (matwork in Judo is a lot like wrestling). We have one family in our club who will not let their sons fight girls. I totally understand this as a mom of boys, though at this point I still let mine randori with girls, and don't see this changing. However, from the perspective of a competitor, I know that the last thing on my mind when I'm fighting is the fact I'm a female and they're (often) a male. On the third hand, a Dad of a teenage girl in my club told me she might be bringing a friend to try it out, and it was someone she wanted to date, but she couldn't date for another 2.5 months, so to keep an eye on him. Are you still competing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Are you still competing? I only fight guys in club (Judo tournaments are split male/female). I'm hopeful that my health issues will be solved and I can do a tournament in May, but we'll have to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry gardens Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 What do you think about this? http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-general/20110217/US.Girl.Wrestler.Default/ The defaulting wrestler is described as a home schooled (not sure why that's relevant) wrestler strongly favored in his class. He said he made the decision to default because wrestling is a combat sport that can get violent and, as a matter of conscience and faith, believes that it is inappropriate for him to engage with a girl in that manner. I'm torn. On the one hand, I respect the kid for holding his own values higher than those of a sporting event. On the other, I'm ticked. The girl qualified. Girls are not excluded from participation, and he knew that when he decided to participate in the sport. It kind of makes me mad that he denied her the opportunity to earn her win or loss. Thoughts? Good for him! He shouldn't have to wrestle against a girl just because he wants to wrestle. I hope somewhere there's a males-only wrestling competition for this young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I only fight guys in club (Judo tournaments are split male/female). I'm hopeful that my health issues will be solved and I can do a tournament in May, but we'll have to see. That means you're sparring but not competing? I was just curious because of your health, I didn't know if you were able to train at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I think he was honest and was living according to his conscience. I can't fault him for that. I remember my grandfather telling my brother when he was young "you never, ever hit a girl. EVER." For some people brought up that way, hitting a girl or in this case engaging a girl in a way where she could get hurt, just goes against everything they've ever been taught, kwim? I think it's a good thing that he respects the girl and I think he was being chivalrous. According to their stats, I think he probably would have won the match and I think he knew that too which is why he bowed out gracefully. I think the girls should be able to compete if they want to, but I think wrestling is one of those sports where it's good to have separate teams for men and women. Just my humble opinion for what it's worth. :) Edited February 17, 2011 by Ibbygirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If it were my boy, it would be NO! I've seen this happen around here. The girls go out for the wrestling team and some of them are very, very good. Then they claim "molestation" because he accidently touched something. Sorry ladies, there is no way to do that sport and not end up with contact between him and your lady parts. Can't be done. The schools always, always, always come down on the boys. Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 That means you're sparring but not competing? I was just curious because of your health, I didn't know if you were able to train at all. Yeah, I've been training, just not as hard as I would like. I talked with a friend who is a GI doctor and black belt in Judo, and he felt it was safe for me to continue working out. I just finished my two week trial of prednisone, and it felt so good to be able to get in a few good workouts :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxwife Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 What do you think about this? http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-general/20110217/US.Girl.Wrestler.Default/ The defaulting wrestler is described as a home schooled (not sure why that's relevant) wrestler strongly favored in his class. He said he made the decision to default because wrestling is a combat sport that can get violent and, as a matter of conscience and faith, believes that it is inappropriate for him to engage with a girl in that manner. I'm torn. On the one hand, I respect the kid for holding his own values higher than those of a sporting event. On the other, I'm ticked. The girl qualified. Girls are not excluded from participation, and he knew that when he decided to participate in the sport. It kind of makes me mad that he denied her the opportunity to earn her win or loss. Thoughts? My husband was a wrestler and while he's not home to ask right now, having heard him talk about wrestling, I imagine he would have done the same thing. When he was wrestling he did some wrestling move that ended up cracking another guys rib cage open. While he hasn't done anything wrong, in terms of the sport, he was obviously very upset that it happened. I know he would have been even more upset if he'd been wrestling a girl and something like that had happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 He deserves the right to default. He is making a choice. It is his morals and no one elses. I could see my son taking the same moral choice. Yes, he joined the sport knowing that girls were involved. He probaby made this choice long ago to take a default, and has just now been put in a position to defend it. I applaud him for sticking to his moral grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) My son will face this at some point, and he will forfeit also. One of his teammates (another 8 yo) forfeited a few weeks ago in this same situation. We have been fortunate so far that the one or two girls at each tournament he has been to haven't been in his weight class. Why does he wrestle, knowing he may have to do this? Because wrestling is the sport he has chosen, and this is the way it is right now (no girls' tournaments.) You go into it knowing that. My dh goes to (and sometimes conducts) training for CPI (crisis prevention intervention for severe bahavior situations.) He will not practice the holds and such with female co-workers or employees. Sometimes that is difficult (there are few men in education,) but most women understand his position. Edited February 17, 2011 by angela in ohio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 That said, in the case it is NOT separated. I struggle with thinking you should be able to opt out just because you don't like something about it, as long as you had all the facts going in. He took the consequences -- a loss. I have a hard time telling anyone they HAVE to perform in an activity -- no ifs ands or buts about it. It may be he didn't really know there were girls in wrestling, because there are so few. It may he will change his mind now about participating after the issue actually came up. It may be he does this mostly for fun and doesn't mind losing here and there to keep his princples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If girls have the option to wrestle w/ the boys, why shouldn't the boys have the option to bow out? If he'd been rude about it, that would have been one thing, but I read his response, & it seemed entirely honest & gracious. What else was he supposed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortWorthCookes Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Good for him. :hurray: I would be so proud to see my son take a loss to uphold the standards of gentlemanly behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I think he was honest and was living according to his conscience. I can't fault him for that. I remember my grandfather telling my brother when he was young "you never, ever hit a girl. EVER." For some people brought up that way, hitting a girl or in this case engaging a girl in a way where she could get hurt, just goes against everything they've ever been taught, kwim? I think it's a good thing that he respects the girl and I think he was being chivalrous. According to their stats, I think he probably would have won the match and I think he knew that too which is why he bowed out gracefully. I think the girls should be able to compete if they want to, but I think wrestling is one of those sports where it's good to have separate teams for men and women. Just my humble opinion for what it's worth. :) Not enough competitors otherwise they would I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 He took the consequences -- a loss. Yeah, I agree with this, too. I think somewhere deep down it's my own personal "don't-tell-me-I'm-not-worthy-because-I'm-a-girl" issue that I'm struggling with. I'm not condemning the kid in any way. Something about it is just not sitting well with me, and I think that might be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) What do you think about this? http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-general/20110217/US.Girl.Wrestler.Default/ The defaulting wrestler is described as a home schooled (not sure why that's relevant) wrestler strongly favored in his class. He said he made the decision to default because wrestling is a combat sport that can get violent and, as a matter of conscience and faith, believes that it is inappropriate for him to engage with a girl in that manner. I'm torn. On the one hand, I respect the kid for holding his own values higher than those of a sporting event. On the other, I'm ticked. The girl qualified. Girls are not excluded from participation, and he knew that when he decided to participate in the sport. It kind of makes me mad that he denied her the opportunity to earn her win or loss. Thoughts? I think there should be a separate league for female wrestlers. I played varsity field hockey in college. A guy from England, where it is a male sport as well, tried out for the team. He could cream any of us--just totally superior strength. He ended up being our asst. coach. It would not have been fair to have him on our team against all-female teams. I guess he could have made a stink about it, but he didn't. Furthermore, I loved wrestling neighborhoood boys when I was in 5th grade: I realized later why I loved it so much. It was highly sexual--I just didn't realize what that was. I think it is wrong for the league to make guys with a moral stance against it wrestle girls. If there is enough female interest, they can start their own league; if not, they do another sport. Otherwise, guys should be able to be on any girls' team they want. Fair is fair. I totally applaud the guy for sticking to his morals, whether they are against being violent with girls or against being in a highly sexualized position with girls. He's a winner in a big way. Edited February 17, 2011 by Laurie4b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 He took the consequences -- a loss.I have a hard time telling anyone they HAVE to perform in an activity -- no ifs ands or buts about it. That's, imo, the most important part. I've always told my kids they can take a stand whenever they want as long as they're willing to accept the consequences. He took a stand, he accepted the consequences. Good for him :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I can see how it would be a no-win situation for him. If he plays and he beats her, there's no honor. If he plays and he loses, he's in an equally uncomfortable position. If anyone is hurt, he's either deeply embarrassed or at fault. If he doesn't play, then perhaps he's out-of-touch or chauvinistic... :iagree: What a horrid position to put a young man, or a young woman, in. I applaud him. The girl also joined, knowing she was a minority in the sport and that this was a possibility. Personally, I think it is OK to have gender separation on some things. Feminism is carried too far sometimes. If women want to wrestle, then have a women's team. Basketball does that. :iagree: with this as well. I don't care that the girl qualified. I am not a fan of the idea of opposite sexes going against each other in such sports. I can't imagine a mixed football team. And that is exactly what I told my PE teacher when she decided that boys and girls should play tag football together. It was common knowledge the boys had a bet going that they could "feel up" a certain number of girls during the game. I chose to take the 0 (zero) in the grade book on more than one occasion. I usually got 'C's in class. Editing to add that I took karate several years back and I really hated sparring the men. I felt very uncomfortable. I did find it funny that my youngest daughter, then 5 years old, would chase the boys out of the ring. :) Edited February 17, 2011 by Night Elf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not enough competitors otherwise they would I am sure. Not yet maybe, but if these girls were interested in wrestling, I'm sure there will be others. These girls may even be the pioneers for female wrestling leagues of the future. I think it's great that the girls want to wrestle and participate in the sport of their choice. Hopefully they will have a league of their own someday. I'm sure they will. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lula Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I think he made the right move. I would not like my young son wrestling against a girl. Not because she isn't a worthy opponent at that age or stage of wrestling or even that she may beat him but because I think that a larger life lesson he is in the process of learning at that age is that "Women are not to be treated roughly." I think this is a worthy lesson for boys to have instilled at earlier ages even if those boys have female sparring partners later in life. I like that he didn't make it an issue of being worried about being beaten by a girl. Of course boys don't like being beat by a girl, girls don't like being beat by a boy, it is uncomfortable when the notions of gender come up in situations of winning, nobody wants to win or lose because of their gender. Let's face it in most situations of physical prowess men are going to "beat" women, obviously wrestling/martial arts are not merely physical and involve additional skill but I don't know a single "top of their game" female who could beat a "top of their game" male in either wrestling or martial arts. My sister is a multi-level post black belt in several martial arts and in a very physical area of the military and she backs this statement up even though she has "shown up" several men in spectacular fashion. (obviously women are going to be able to spar with men and vv in situations I am not referring to those cases) If he was older and in a situation that involved sparring with a woman etc I wouldn't have a problem, I would hope at that age this lesson would be well learned and that the sparring was a test of skill for both parties. I have read the book "Playing with the Boys" but didn't find it super convincing for any argument other than girls need to have more sports opportunities, more types of sports opportunities etc. not less. I really enjoyed the parts on female endurance and would love to see track/field/racing events altered to match some of the female physical strengths. I am VERY pro sports for girls and think that girls wrestling should be supported and continued but don't think that his refusing to wrestle with a girl is the same as refusing to wrestle with a boy in his class who is Black/Jewish/Spanish/Gay etc. I think that there are advantages for separate gender sports. I know that this is a topic that has reasonable people on both sides and as a mother of a son and a daughter really enjoy hearing all sides. Edited February 17, 2011 by lula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I think there should be a separate league for female wrestlers. I played varsity field hockey in college. A guy from England, where it is a male sport as well, tried out for the team. He could cream any of us--just totally superior strength. He ended up being our asst. coach. It would not have been fair to have him on our team against all-female teams. I guess he could have made a stink about it, but he didn't. Furthermore, I loved wrestling neighborhoood boys when I was in 5th grade: I realized later why I loved it so much. It was highly sexual--I just didn't realize what that was. I think it is wrong for the league to make guys with a moral stance against it wrestle girls. If there is enough female interest, they can start their own league; if not, they do another sport. Otherwise, guys should be able to be on any girls' team they want. Fair is fair. I totally applaud the guy for sticking to his morals, whether they are against being violent with girls or against being in a highly sexualized position with girls. He's a winner in a big way. Title IX would then require the school then to offer an equivilant sport for women, in the case of field hockey that would involve hiring an additional coach. My husband was a wrestler and wrestled females in school. He didn't think it was a big deal. I don't take issue with boys not wanting to wrestle girls. Sure, it makes sense that some guys would have issues with that due to religious practices. But legally they cannot bar girls from a sport without an equivilant for girls. When I was in school there wasn't a single girl sport that didn't have a male equivilant, we didn't have field hockey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX Edited February 17, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not yet maybe, but if these girls were interested in wrestling, I'm sure there will be others. These girls may even be the pioneers for female wrestling leagues of the future. I think it's great that the girls want to wrestle and participate in the sport of their choice. Hopefully they will have a league of their own someday. I'm sure they will. :) Hmmm, I don't know. It's a very aggressive sport. It requires something else. I would be surprised if they did get a league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I'm really sick about this story today. I was listening to a program this morning where they were talking about this kid. I believe this kid did an honorable thing. People calling into this program and people calling in for others were giving this boy grief. Not just a little grief either. The host wouldn't even use some of the names they were calling this kid. I'm so sick for him. Kelly Edited February 17, 2011 by kwiech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm really sick about this story today. I was listening to a program this morning where they were talking about this kid. I believe this kid did an honorable thing and people calling into this program and people calling in for others were giving this boy grief. Not just a little grief either. The host wouldn't even use some of the names they were calling this kid. I'm so sick for that kid. Kelly That's really sad. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hmmm, I don't know. It's a very aggressive sport. It requires something else. I would be surprised if they did get a league. It is agressive, and yet there are already girls doing it anyway. I think they just might get a league of their own some day. It is an Olympic sport afterall so I think there would be an incentive there even for girls as another option to compete on the Olympic stage at some point IF there were a league. It wouldn't suprise me if one did develop eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm really sick about this story today. I was listening to a program this morning where they were talking about this kid. I believe this kid did an honorable thing. People calling into this program and people calling in for others were giving this boy grief. Not just a little grief either. The host wouldn't even use some of the names they were calling this kid. I'm so sick for him. Kelly That's terrible. Poor kid. He's d@mned if he does and d@mned if he doesn't. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Having been "the girl" I can find fault in this young man's stance. When I was going through the police academy (and to an extent fire fighter training) there was no gender. In the same way this is a wrestling club and the competitors are wrestlers not young men and young women. If I had to wait until there was another girl available to go through take downs and hand-to-hand training I'd have waited up to year, possibly two because women in law enforcement were not as plentiful back then. By the same token this young lady is part of the wrestlying team - apparently this team is the only show in town so she should be thought of as a wrestler not as a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lula Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) My college and high school had girls wrestling. It was pretty awesome. I think the girls were plenty aggressive. It is horrible that girls have a hard time finding wrestling opportunities. I think that should be the focus of this situation, change things have your girls wrestle! ;D (I'm serious but I don't want people to read this as sarcastic, I really mean it!) Edited February 17, 2011 by lula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 My son wrestled for two years. We didn't sign up for wrestling this year due to time constraints but will likely join again. He never had to face a girl, but I'm sure it will happen if he continues. Here's my take. I try very hard to teach my son to respect women. Dh and I want to raise a kind, caring young man who knows how to treat a lady. Part of that is learning that it is never, ever ok to hit a woman or otherwise harm one. I just could not in good conscious allow him to wrestle a girl. Personally, I would feel as though that would be sending a mixed message. I completely understand how others could (and do) feel differently, and that's ok. I want him to be a man of honor, doing what he feels to be the right thing no matter how hard it is. I look at the boy who defaulted and see a boy with honor and courage. That's what I want my son to be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm really sick about this story today. I was listening to a program this morning where they were talking about this kid. I believe this kid did an honorable thing. People calling into this program and people calling in for others were giving this boy grief. Not just a little grief either. The host wouldn't even use some of the names they were calling this kid. I'm so sick for him. Kelly That is just sad. It is one thing to not agree with him. To call him names and use obscenities in relation to his decision is just idiotic behavior. What ever happened to having a bit of breeding and class? And another thing. Who called the media to try to force this guy into wrestling with the other wrestler in question? This should have just stayed in-house and not made part of the 6 o'clock news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 My son wrestled for two years. We didn't sign up for wrestling this year due to time constraints but will likely join again. He never had to face a girl, but I'm sure it will happen if he continues. Here's my take. I try very hard to teach my son to respect women. Dh and I want to raise a kind, caring young man who knows how to treat a lady. Part of that is learning that it is never, ever ok to hit a woman or otherwise harm one. I just could not in good conscious allow him to wrestle a girl. Personally, I would feel as though that would be sending a mixed message. I completely understand how others could (and do) feel differently, and that's ok. I want him to be a man of honor, doing what he feels to be the right thing no matter how hard it is. I look at the boy who defaulted and see a boy with honor and courage. That's what I want my son to be like. Wrestling doesn't involve hitting girls or harming them. My daughter takes karate and I can gaurantee she hits guys all the time. She can hit pretty hard so they should hit her back. She can throw my husband. If someone refused to spar my daughter I would be offended. There is a lot less contact in karate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 A couple posters have written here about refusing to spar with men or boys in martial arts. I have to share my experience with this. I'll preface my story by saying I absolutely respect the integrity shown when a person chooses not to spar with someone of the opposite gender. In no way do I want to criticize that integrity. I do want to ask, though, that safety for women be considered in a slightly different light. I took karate for a few years while in college. Sparring with men didn't bother me, and I found them to be completely respectful. There was one day that I was paired with a man of a higher rank. The maneuver I was attempting required me to start by jabbing him in the throat with two fingers, and then do the maneuver. The first time I did it my partner told me bluntly that the amount of force I was using would never, ever be effective. I protested that we were just practicing and I did not want to hurt him. He pointed out, correctly, that if I got used to doing the moves with minimal force, I would not be able to summon the necessary intensity on the street if attacked. He insisted that I work a LOT harder. This really nice guy coached me through this maneuver repeatedly. I was shocked to learn just how MUCH force was necessary to hurt him just a little--it was so much more than I realized. I have always been grateful to that guy for doing this with me. It completely changed my perspective on attack situations, and on my own defenses in an attack situation. I have no issues with the wrestler choosing not to wrestle a girl. I respect his integrity. However, I do wish that men would spar with women in martial arts situations specifically because women need to understand clearly what it will take to escape or protect themselves in an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Defaulting robbed the young woman of the opportunity she earned to compete. I don't find that to be sporting or gentlemanly behavior in the least. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It is agressive, and yet there are already girls doing it anyway. I think they just might get a league of their own some day. It is an Olympic sport afterall so I think there would be an incentive there even for girls as another option to compete on the Olympic stage at some point IF there were a league. It wouldn't suprise me if one did develop eventually. That's true but what I've seen is that there is usually 1 girl on the whole team or gym. So it does puzzle me on how there are enough women for the Olympic stage. Of course, I haven't seen EVERY team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 That is just sad. It is one thing to not agree with him. To call him names and use obscenities in relation to his decision is just idiotic behavior. What ever happened to having a bit of breeding and class? And another thing. Who called the media to try to force this guy into wrestling with the other wrestler in question? This should have just stayed in-house and not made part of the 6 o'clock news. I was listening to the radio this morning to this program while the state tournaments were going on. Wrestling in Iowa is a big deal so of course this was going to make it on the news and other radio programs today. Also, I believe the girls are the first to go to state and actually wrestle so I think people were waiting to see what was going to happen. Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) A couple posters have written here about refusing to spar with men or boys in martial arts. I have to share my experience with this. I'll preface my story by saying I absolutely respect the integrity shown when a person chooses not to spar with someone of the opposite gender. In no way do I want to criticize that integrity. I do want to ask, though, that safety for women be considered in a slightly different light. I took karate for a few years while in college. Sparring with men didn't bother me, and I found them to be completely respectful. There was one day that I was paired with a man of a higher rank. The maneuver I was attempting required me to start by jabbing him in the throat with two fingers, and then do the maneuver. The first time I did it my partner told me bluntly that the amount of force I was using would never, ever be effective. I protested that we were just practicing and I did not want to hurt him. He pointed out, correctly, that if I got used to doing the moves with minimal force, I would not be able to summon the necessary intensity on the street if attacked. He insisted that I work a LOT harder. This really nice guy coached me through this maneuver repeatedly. I was shocked to learn just how MUCH force was necessary to hurt him just a little--it was so much more than I realized. I have always been grateful to that guy for doing this with me. It completely changed my perspective on attack situations, and on my own defenses in an attack situation. I have no issues with the wrestler choosing not to wrestle a girl. I respect his integrity. However, I do wish that men would spar with women in martial arts situations specifically because women need to understand clearly what it will take to escape or protect themselves in an attack. You've posted that before and I am agreeing with you once again. :001_smile: Edited February 17, 2011 by LG Gone Wild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I was listening to the radio this morning to this program while the state tournaments were going on. Wrestling in Iowa is a big deal so of course this was going to make it on the news and other radio programs today. Also, I believe the girls are the first to go to state and actually wrestle so I think people were waiting to see what was going to happen. Kelly Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Title IX would then require the school then to offer an equivilant sport for women, in the case of field hockey that would involve hiring an additional coach. This is why I'm glad he didn't make a big deal over it. Couldn't he have fought the university to let him play since there was not an equivalent men's team? It would have been more than hiring an additional coach to start a varsity team at a major university. My husband was a wrestler and wrestled females in school. He didn't think it was a big deal. I don't take issue with boys not wanting to wrestle girls. Sure, it makes sense that some guys would have issues with that due to religious practices. But legally they cannot bar girls from a sport without an equivilant for girls. When I was in school there wasn't a single girl sport that didn't have a male equivilant, we didn't have field hockey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX Can they bar men from a women's team without the equivalent for men? At our high school, we had girls' field hockey and lacrosse. There were no equivalent men's teams. There were also boys' teams without the equivalent girls' teams. The girls' teams were very well supported, however. We had great coaches, equipment, shoes, uniforms, etc. and were top in our league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I think it is offensive that a boy would refuse to participate against a girl who is eligible and qualifies for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Wrestling doesn't involve hitting girls or harming them. My daughter takes karate and I can gaurantee she hits guys all the time. She can hit pretty hard and can take my husband down. If someone refused to spar my daughter I would be offended. There is a lot less contact in karate though. Have you seen wrestling matches? They are quite involved. My son was often hurting, and he was a decent wrestler. I'm not saying girls aren't tough enough. Those girl wrestlers were pretty hard-core. I was kinda proud of them. And this is a weird topic for me because both my dd10 and ds7 take Karate. Sometimes ds has to spar (sp?) with a girl. For some reason this doesn't bother me too much, probably because he usually spars with a friend and they giggle the whole time. Wrestling just seems so much more ... personal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Defaulting robbed the young woman of the opportunity she earned to compete. I don't find that to be sporting or gentlemanly behavior in the least. Bill There is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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