Young Life -- what do you think of this kind of Christian outreach?

[msjones]

Young Life is very active around our area. Young adults (usually in their 20s, it seems) get involved volunteering in public high schools (often coaching or tutoring) in order to get to know the students. They then invite students to "club" meetings in order to introduce them to Christianity.

 

What do you think about this approach?

[Skadi]

I don't think any adults to should be actively proselytizing to minors. Particularly without the parents' express permission and full disclosure. And especially not at a public school of any sort.

[MamaAkins]

I became a true Christian as a direct result of Young Life influence in high school. (I had attended church regularly and had been christened as a baby, but never really had a relationship with Christ until then.) I had amazing young life leaders who took the time to reach out to each student....especially to those in difficult situations or times of need. My mom was a single mom and not really a Christian. Attending YoungLife was the only "in" I had to learning about having a relationship with Christ. It was a life-changing experience for me and eventually led to my asking Christ into my life during a weekend retreat. I never found the leaders to be too pushy or overbearing...the leaders that worked directly with the high schoolers were not all that much older than the high school students (maybe 2-3 years older).

[MamaAkins]

I don't think any adults to should be actively proselytizing to minors. Particularly without the parents' express permission and full disclosure. And especially not at a public school of any sort.

 

 

At least in my area, the Young Life meetings (aka "clubs") were held in the evenings and usually away from school grounds (usually meeting at a community building or a local church). Parents were well aware of where they were taking their kids and for what reason. Any weekend trips required parents permission, signed forms and usually money to cover the expense.

[msjones]

I don't think any adults to should be actively proselytizing to minors. Particularly without the parents' express permission and full disclosure. And especially not at a public school of any sort.

 

It appears that the whole goal of Young Life is for adults to do just this -- proselytize to minors.

 

I'm pretty sure they don't set out to do any Christian teaching while on the job at their schools, but the goal is to get to know the students and then invite them to events.

[laundrycrisis]

I don't think any adults to should be actively proselytizing to minors. Particularly without the parents' express permission and full disclosure. And especially not at a public school of any sort.

 

:iagree:

 

Young adults (usually in their 20s, it seems) get involved volunteering in public high schools (often coaching or tutoring) in order to get to know the students. They then invite students to "club" meetings in order to introduce them to Christianity.

 

 

If the entire motivation for the coaching or tutoring is to build relationships with students to eventually invite to a religious program, IMO that is very unethical. I don't care if they aren't talking about religion while at the school or while tutoring/coaching/etc. They are there with a hidden motive.

 

Nobody should be volunteering in a school to serve their own hidden agenda for spreading their religious ideas around. That's disgusting.

 

How would Christian parents feel about atheist/secular humanist folks doing something similar - volunteer for the hidden purpose of cultivating relationships with kids, and then inviting kids to events specifically promoting or teaching secular humanism ? Would this go over well ? Or what if it's a new age type "consciousness raising" group ? Would Christian parents appreciate volunteers at school who are really only there to promote such a group ? Probably not.

 

I respect the right of parents to teach their own beliefs to their own kids. I don't think anyone else should be attempting to reach minors with any "messages" or information regarding religious ideas. Especially not with undercover folks volunteering with kids they will eventually attempt to "reach". Bleh.

Edited February 10, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[RamonaQ]

My sister (in her late 30s) was very involved, seemingly happily, when she was in H.S. and my parents supported this (although were not involved). Now as an adult she is completely separated, and highly skeptical of organized Christian religions. She feels that she was "pressured" by her friend's mom to join and stay part of it. She feels that the theology ultimately was greatly at odds with our mainstream Methodist one in which we were raised (and I, not a part of YL, am still happily connected with).

 

She ended up following the YL path for many years before she was able to truly reconcile what her own life was about. In the end, I personally am sad for her now as she yearns for Christian community but feels so wounded she doesn't attend, and her kids are not being raised with any faith. In the end, YL did not help her deepen her faith, although it connected her to a faith during her teenage years, she is now completely separated from Christianity. It honestly had the opposite effect of what I would imagine a Christian youth group would have...helping a young person grow into their faith.

[msjones]

I became a true Christian as a direct result of Young Life influence in high school. (I had attended church regularly and had been christened as a baby, but never really had a relationship with Christ until then.) I had amazing young life leaders who took the time to reach out to each student....especially to those in difficult situations or times of need. My mom was a single mom and not really a Christian. Attending YoungLife was the only "in" I had to learning about having a relationship with Christ. It was a life-changing experience for me and eventually led to my asking Christ into my life during a weekend retreat. I never found the leaders to be too pushy or overbearing...the leaders that worked directly with the high schoolers were not all that much older than the high school students (maybe 2-3 years older).

 

My husband could have written this. He became a Christian through Young Life. We know a lot of wonderful people who are dedicated Young Life-ers.

 

But I'm not quite comfortable with members of a religious organization deliberately working at public schools in order to invite students to religious events. I was quickly shut down when I recently shared that concern with a group of my friends (most of whom have been involved with YL at one time or another). They were amazed that I had a problem with it.

 

I asked them how they would feel if their child's basketball coach was coaching in order to get to know the kids and invite them to atheist meetings and 'convert' them to atheism. One of them just quickly changed the subject.

 

So, I wondered what folks on this forum would have to say.

 

ETA: Please correct me if I'm wrong about how Young Life works. It is my impression that they work at schools in order to get to know students and invite them to meetings (I've had YL folks tell me as much), but I don't know if that's their 'official' approach.

Edited February 10, 2011 by msjones
one more thing to add...

[Rebecca VA]

There was a Young Life group in my high school, and I loved attending the meetings and activities. That was where the coolest kids spent their time. This was back in the 1970s, so things may have changed since then, but I don't remember adults hanging around my high school trying to recruit students. I think our group might have been started by a Young Life adult sponsored by a local church, and the group grew through word of mouth. There were adult leaders, and the group's meetings were held at students' homes, often with the parents in a nearby room.

 

Young Life gave me an identity and a peer group. It helped me to understand Christ in a more personal way than what I was learning in church. Unless it has degraded somehow since I was in high school, I'll support it enthusiastically.

[Skadi]

At least in my area, the Young Life meetings (aka "clubs") were held in the evenings and usually away from school grounds (usually meeting at a community building or a local church). Parents were well aware of where they were taking their kids and for what reason. Any weekend trips required parents permission, signed forms and usually money to cover the expense.

 

The actual church meetings may be held off campus, but the fact that Young Life sends adults to schools to get the kids to go to those meetings is unethical.

 

At my old high school, it wasn't immediately known that these "free tutors" were there with the motive to "bring students to Christ." I'm sure most parents have no idea. Let me put it to you this way. Let's say that you send your kids to public school, and they mention that there are free tutors in the library they're thinking about seeing. "Great!" you think. It never occurs to you that these tutors aren't officially associated with the school, or that they might have ulterior motives. That is, until you find out that after befriending one of your kids, one of these "tutors" has convinced him to attend several faith meetings at a Mosque or even, say, Scientology meetings. You don't find out about any of this until your kid asks for you to sign a permission slip for a field trip. [Note: I use these two religions as examples not because I want to make sweeping statements that they are "bad" but because I'm trying to counter how you may fail to see how immoral this is because you have normalized their actions since they share your Christian faith.]

 

If you think you might feel angry and that your role as parent had been violated in that situation, you'd be right to feel that way. It is not ethical for an adult to usurp your position in your child's religious education, and it is definitely blurring separation of church and state for adults whose express intent is to convert kids to be allowed into a public school setting.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Skadi

[joannqn]

I loved Young Life as a teen. Meetings were in the evenings and met a kids' homes, varying every week. My parents knew where I was going and what the club was about. My dad was an atheist at the time and told me "just don't bring it home."

 

In my case, a neighbor invited me. After she moved, I had no means of transportation and a leader picked me up every week. He and the other main leader were a huge support for me during a very difficult time in my life. I really appreciated it. Young Life gave me a few hours a week stress free...no difficult school classes and no war-like home environment. Interestingly, though I never knew when I'd be free from my duties at home (ie. doing literally everything (ie. cooking, cleaning, childcare, lawn care) because I sometimes had to continue taking care of my brother even after my father came home, I never missed Young Life. My parents were always home and let me go despite not being believers.

 

They wouldn't pay for trips or camps so I ended up getting a job just to pay for them. My father loaned me the deposit for one of them but I had to pay him back. I still have fond memories of the trips/camps I went on; they were the best times of my teen years. My sophomore year, I was forced to quit work so I could babysit full time without pay, which ended me going on trips. At least I got a few in there my freshman year and the summer after.

 

I obviously loved Young Life and whole-heartedly approve of the group, if they still function in the same manner.

[chiguirre]

YL was actually banned from my highschool in the mid-80s. I thought it was a cult. Obviously this was long before google, so all I knew about it was the scandal it caused at my school.

[alpidarkomama]

I think that method is deceptive. I would be extremely upset if it happened to my child. But that's yet another reason we homeschool! And if we didn't homeschool, they would definitely be in a Jewish day school. Jews believe in inreach - reaching out to fellow Jews and sharing the beauty of torah.

[Chris in VA]

Just want to say I hope no one confuses this with Campus Life/Youth for Christ. They do not volunteer on site, just hold club meetings. Sometimes the leaders do go and meet students for lunch, but it is always with parental permission.

 

I've had people confuse the two, and I just wanted to make sure someone on here didn't.

 

I volunteered with YfC via Campus Life as a college student.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Disgusting.

 

[Allearia]

As a non-Christian I think this is very unethical and do not believe this should happen in the public schools. Just think about Wiccan young adults tutoring in the schools and inviting the students to visit their coven or Muslim young adults or any other religion. Parents would be horrified.

 

And I say this as a person where if my kids were invited by a friend or someone in another situation to visit a Christian event I would have no problem. Or to visit a Pagan, Wiccan, Muslim, Buddhist, or whatever event probably. But this absolutely should NOT occur in the public schools.

[PiCO]

Young Life is very active around our area. Young adults (usually in their 20s, it seems) get involved volunteering in public high schools (often coaching or tutoring) in order to get to know the students. They then invite students to "club" meetings in order to introduce them to Christianity.

 

What do you think about this approach?

 

I have no problem with Young Life members volunteering in public schools.

 

I do have a problem with anyone volunteering for the express purpose of conversion. That's unethical.

[Disney Dreaming]

I was involved in this during my junior and senior years of high school. I don't remember the Young Life volunteers being at the schools, maybe they were and I just don't remember it. We got together at different homes(the students, not volunteers) every week. The parents were very aware of what was going on since there were adults on site. This was a wonderful program that really did help some kids through some difficult times. Thes kids that usually attended were the ones who didn't get into trouble, weren't out partying every weekend, etc...

[Gooblink]

:iagree:

 

 

 

If the entire motivation for the coaching or tutoring is to build relationships with students to eventually invite to a religious program, IMO that is very unethical. I don't care if they aren't talking about religion while at the school or while tutoring/coaching/etc. They are there with a hidden motive.

 

Nobody should be volunteering in a school to serve their own hidden agenda for spreading their religious ideas around. That's disgusting.

 

How would Christian parents feel about atheist/secular humanist folks doing something similar - volunteer for the hidden purpose of cultivating relationships with kids, and then inviting kids to events specifically promoting or teaching secular humanism ? Would this go over well ? Or what if it's a new age type "consciousness raising" group ? Would Christian parents appreciate volunteers at school who are really only there to promote such a group ? Probably not.

 

I respect the right of parents to teach their own beliefs to their own kids. I don't think anyone else should be attempting to reach minors with any "messages" or information regarding religious ideas. Especially not with undercover folks volunteering with kids they will eventually attempt to "reach". Bleh.

 

Exactly why many folks - of different religions - keep their kids out of public school.

[Audrey]

:iagree:

 

 

 

If the entire motivation for the coaching or tutoring is to build relationships with students to eventually invite to a religious program, IMO that is very unethical. I don't care if they aren't talking about religion while at the school or while tutoring/coaching/etc. They are there with a hidden motive.

 

Nobody should be volunteering in a school to serve their own hidden agenda for spreading their religious ideas around. That's disgusting.

 

How would Christian parents feel about atheist/secular humanist folks doing something similar - volunteer for the hidden purpose of cultivating relationships with kids, and then inviting kids to events specifically promoting or teaching secular humanism ? Would this go over well ? Or what if it's a new age type "consciousness raising" group ? Would Christian parents appreciate volunteers at school who are really only there to promote such a group ? Probably not.

 

I respect the right of parents to teach their own beliefs to their own kids. I don't think anyone else should be attempting to reach minors with any "messages" or information regarding religious ideas. Especially not with undercover folks volunteering with kids they will eventually attempt to "reach". Bleh.

 

 

:iagree: Religion doesn't belong in school. IMO that is a parent's priviledge to guide.

[justasque]

Interesting article.

 

Young Life in Stark County is already active at Timken, Jackson and Hoover high schools, and a program is being developed at McKinley High School. “In the near future, we would like to bring it to Alliance and Marlington high schools,” Martin said.

...

 

“Our method is very unconventional; we go and build relationships with the teenagers,” Martin said. “We don’t proselytize in the schools, but we befriend and build relationships with the kids.”

Going into a school “depends on the vision of the staff at the school,” Martin said. “We haven’t had any problems going into schools and eating lunch with students, and going to after-school programs, sporting events or practices,” he added.

 

I'm surprised that the schools would let random young adults who are not enrolled eat lunch with students or visit practices. Religion aside, it screams "liability issue" to me. My local public school wouldn't even let my son do a "family science night" at the school as his Eagle Scout project (and by "science" I mean things like an egg drop, not anything controversial).

[mykdsmomy]

:iagree: Religion doesn't belong in school. IMO that is a parent's priviledge to guide.

 

 

I have to agree with this. I'm a Christian and I think if other Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Hindu, etc want to volunteer in schools for the sole purpose of showing kindness and helping out, then great! However, my belief is that you teach your faith by your walk, not by your talk. Showing Christs loves should shine through your works. Your job is not to convert others. God has that covered (imo). Model your faith, don't shove it down others throats.

[Slartibartfast]

I wouldn't be ok with it. We are Christians but we likely are not the same denomination as them.

[freethinkermama]

I will do my utmost to explain to my children that Evangelical religious groups always have the goal of converting. All the invitations, meetings, and outings, are done for one reason--conversion.

 

I will do all I can to dissuade my children from becoming involved in these groups, though I will not prohibit it.

 

Knowledge is power.

[lmrich]

Let me just say that my best friend in high school was Hindu and came to every Young Life meeting and even to camp with me. She was never pressured to convert. I even talked to the leaders about this, and they told me that if my non Christian friend only takes away that we, as Christians, love her no matter what, that was enough. And to this day she fondly remembers her time in Young Life as a Hindu. I am a fan of Young Life. I am a fan of how our leaders handled the situation. They provided a fun place for kids to hang out and someone to talk to. All of our events were held off campus. The youth leaders came to football games, basketball games and school events open to the public. They were very supportive of all the kids; they never prayed with you on school grounds; they never crossed that line. Young Life was my favorite activity in high school, and I did everything in high school (drama, yearbook, SADD, Spanish club, library helper,etc...)

[nd293]

I read a very unsettling article years ago about "guerilla missionaries" - the general idea was that Christian missionaries went into Muslim countries, mixed with the community, going through the physical motions that accompany Muslim prayer, then telling people they were "Jesus Muslims", and working at converting people.

 

Going into schools claiming to be a tutor when you are actually a missionary is only slightly less distasteful.

 

As others have pointed out, if you are honest with yourself you have to reverse the situation: what if this scenario involved a religion or philosophy with which you were not comfortable?

[freethinkermama]

I read a very unsettling article years ago about "guerilla missionaries" - the general idea was that Christian missionaries went into Muslim countries, mixed with the community, going through the physical motions that accompany Muslim prayer, then telling people they were "Jesus Muslims", and working at converting people.

 

Going into schools claiming to be a tutor when you are actually a missionary is only slightly less distasteful.

 

As others have pointed out, if you are honest with yourself you have to reverse the situation: what if this scenario involved a religion or philosophy with which you were not comfortable?

 

Unfortunately this is not at all uncommon. I was with a Christian missions group that had something like the "Jesus Muslims" approach you mentioned in the world's largest Muslim country.

 

Many of my friends who went into "closed" countries as missionaries went as English teachers.

 

It is not at all unusual, and it's why I'm so very careful.

[susankenny]

Younglife was around in the 80's when I was in high school. We all knew it was Christian...the kum ba ya vibe kind of gave it away. For those of us not interested, there was no boundary pressed. Personally, if a Christian believes people need Jesus (like truly believe I'm going to hell without him), it would be strange for them not to try & reach out to people for Christ. I know that's going to make people here upset, but really.... if that's someone's personal belief that they hold as truth, it only makes sense that they would try and share it.

 

Susan

[tex-mex]

Um. I've never been in YL, but have been a public schoolteacher.

 

Not sure why those who are up in arms over such a club on campus? If it is a student led club, they legally have the right to meet on campus. (If it were teacher led, that would be illegal. ;)) But along with that mindset of the club needing to be student led, it also opens the door to many other faiths or such to start a group on campus be it Pagan, Gaming, WoW, quilting, Muslim, and so on. I would suspect the YL leaders cannot go on campus and witness -- which is why they hold the bible study off campus. I'd also suspect the students gather on campus and recruit their friends to attend. Which is why the club is allowed to function in a public school setting. That is the general rule from my working in the public school system. Some schools do mandate a teacher to co-sponsor a club and be there (on campus) to supervise (but NOT LEAD or run the club) for meetings from a liability POV. I'd assume some teacher volunteered for the slot. HTH.

Edited February 11, 2011 by tex-mex

[sleepymommy]

I read a very unsettling article years ago about "guerilla missionaries" - the general idea was that Christian missionaries went into Muslim countries, mixed with the community, going through the physical motions that accompany Muslim prayer, then telling people they were "Jesus Muslims", and working at converting people.

 

Going into schools claiming to be a tutor when you are actually a missionary is only slightly less distasteful.

 

As others have pointed out, if you are honest with yourself you have to reverse the situation: what if this scenario involved a religion or philosophy with which you were not comfortable?

 

Unfortunately this is not at all uncommon. I was with a Christian missions group that had something like the "Jesus Muslims" approach you mentioned in the world's largest Muslim country.

 

Many of my friends who went into "closed" countries as missionaries went as English teachers.

 

It is not at all unusual, and it's why I'm so very careful.

 

:iagree:

 

This type of thing is rampant in parts of India. Priests dressing in saffron robes, their church bearing names very similar in both style and name to a Hindu temple, going by names similar to the names of Hindu religious guides.

"Isai Baba" is one that has become well known.

 

Although I find it to be an odd practice and do not agree with it, I try to understand where Christians are coming from with this need to convert. But there needs to be some sort of line drawn as to just how far to take it. Are you being true to your faith if your masquerading as another? Are you being true to your faith if you are pretending to come as a friend or tutor, but really have other motives?

 

As far as the Young Life thing goes, it shouldn't be allowed in public schools period. If this would not be allowed with other faiths or lack of then it should not be tolerated.

[mommaduck]

:iagree:

 

This type of thing is rampant in parts of India. Priests dressing in saffron robes, their church bearing names very similar in both style and name to a Hindu temple, going by names similar to the names of Hindu religious guides.

"Isai Baba" is one that has become well known.

 

Although I find it to be an odd practice and do not agree with it, I try to understand where Christians are coming from with this need to convert. But there needs to be some sort of line drawn as to just how far to take it. Are you being true to your faith if your masquerading as another? Are you being true to your faith if you are pretending to come as a friend or tutor, but really have other motives?

 

As far as the Young Life thing goes, it shouldn't be allowed in public schools period. If this would not be allowed with other faiths or lack of then it should not be tolerated.

 

It happens in Orthodox countries as well. There are Baptists that have grown out beards and donned robes identical to priests and headgear identical to bishops...all to convert Eastern Orthodox to their version of Christianity. Honestly, if you are going to dress it all up to be Orthodox, why don't you just convert to Orthodoxy? (funnily enough, I've known Baptist missionaries to Orthodox countries that leave converted to Orthodox ;) )

 

 

Many missionaries go in as themselves though. But the ones that feel they have to "hide" who they really are and then "slip it in" later...that is deceptive and I have a big issue with that.

[SilverMoonlight]

I don't think any adults to should be actively proselytizing to minors.

 

:iagree:

[justasque]

Not sure why those who are up in arms over such a club on campus? If it is a student led club, they legally have the right to meet on campus.

 

I've been to YL. The way I understand it, YL is *not* a school-based club, and generally I don't think they meet as a club on campus.

[tex-mex]

I've been to YL. The way I understand it, YL is *not* a school-based club, and generally I don't think they meet as a club on campus.

 

I think I said that in my earlier post? :confused: But regardless, they can advertise their club meetings on campus according to the "open" door policy public schools have as long it is student led. That was my original point. Whatever the club does off campus is not a liability to the public school if the YL leader leads a Bible study or witnesses. It is illegal if the said adult (or teacher) does it on campus, tho'.

[Gooblink]

It happens in Orthodox countries as well. There are Baptists that have grown out beards and donned robes identical to priests and headgear identical to bishops...all to convert Eastern Orthodox to their version of Christianity. Honestly, if you are going to dress it all up to be Orthodox, why don't you just convert to Orthodoxy? (funnily enough, I've known Baptist missionaries to Orthodox countries that leave converted to Orthodox ;) )

 

 

Many missionaries go in as themselves though. But the ones that feel they have to "hide" who they really are and then "slip it in" later...that is deceptive and I have a big issue with that.

 

Huh. I wonder if that's a take on 1 Corinthians 9:19, where Paul talks about becoming all things to all men?

 

If so, I don't think that verse means what they think it means. :)

[Murphy101]

I'd be angry if a ADULT tutor was inviting my kid to their church.. Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

It seems inappropriate for an adult to be "cultivating a relationship" and "inviting" a teen anywhere. Is it just me or that sounds kinds of icky?:001_huh:

 

Sounds like the same problem as schools in general. A lack of proper priorities.

 

Just teach/tutor the *insert core subject here*. That's the only reason the kid is there, so do it.

[happyWImom]

My dh & I were Young Life leaders in the late 90's, and were very impressed with the group. We never went into the school, and the only leader I know who did, had lunch with the kids, but they were kids who already knew who she was, and wanted her to be there. There was no deception. A few of the leaders were parents of kids who were members, there were a few that were Sunday School teachers-of older kids, etc...

 

The club meetings were held outside of school, and there was live music, games, and fun. The only religious aspect of the actual club meeting was a prayer at the end, and the Christian music. It was meant to be a non-threatening introduction to religion for kids that were searching. They also did have smaller groups that met at various leaders houses, and those groups talked more in depth about spiritual issues. I know that many of the kids found help from these adults during times when they felt they really needed it, and I totally support Young Life. Nothing was ever done with a hidden agenda, and parents were aware of what the group stood for.

[Audrey]

I'd be angry if a ADULT tutor was inviting my kid to their church.. Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

It seems inappropriate for an adult to be "cultivating a relationship" and "inviting" a teen anywhere. Is it just me or that sounds kinds of icky?:001_huh:

 

Sounds like the same problem as schools in general. A lack of proper priorities.

 

Just teach/tutor the *insert core subject here*. That's the only reason the kid is there, so do it.

 

 

:iagree: Potentially, it could be opening the doors to the kind of hell that Creekland recently posted.

[PiCO]

:iagree: Potentially, it could be opening the doors to the kind of hell that Creekland recently posted.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. Get a job or volunteer position with a school/church/sports team and seek out your quarry.

 

I don't mean to equate pedophiles with evangelists, but they do seem to be using similar methods to stalk their prey.

[PiCO]

But regardless, they can advertise their club meetings on campus according to the "open" door policy public schools have as long it is student led. That was my original point. Whatever the club does off campus is not a liability to the public school if the YL leader leads a Bible study or witnesses. It is illegal if the said adult (or teacher) does it on campus, tho'.

 

The OP said that Young Life leaders are volunteering as tutors and assistant coaches at schools, befriending the students, and then inviting them to off-campus events. This is what some people have a problem with, not the student-led clubs.

[Laurie4b]

My husband could have written this. He became a Christian through Young Life. We know a lot of wonderful people who are dedicated Young Life-ers.

 

But I'm not quite comfortable with members of a religious organization deliberately working at public schools in order to invite students to religious events. I was quickly shut down when I recently shared that concern with a group of my friends (most of whom have been involved with YL at one time or another). They were amazed that I had a problem with it.

 

I asked them how they would feel if their child's basketball coach was coaching in order to get to know the kids and invite them to atheist meetings and 'convert' them to atheism. One of them just quickly changed the subject.

 

So, I wondered what folks on this forum would have to say.

 

ETA: Please correct me if I'm wrong about how Young Life works. It is my impression that they work at schools in order to get to know students and invite them to meetings (I've had YL folks tell me as much), but I don't know if that's their 'official' approach.

 

I don't believe that's the way it works in our area (nor the way it worked 40 years ago when I was in high school.) I think that the volunteers going to school events are supporting kids they *already know* who come to YL. YL starts with church kids, who are encouraged to invite their friends to YL events. I have not heard of stealth volunteering.

[happypamama]

I'm not really very familiar with YL, specifically, but I don't really see it as being any different from other sorts of outreaches. Jesus Himself used this method -- he saw that people needed physical healing from illness, or emotional comfort (like the woman at the well), and once people saw that He cared and could do something about the problems they faced, they were more open to His message. I don't really see how tutoring students and then inviting them to an off-campus Bible study or whatever is any different from a team going to a poor country, building a house or helping to heal sick people, and inviting those people to a church service.

 

It does concern me that there could be random adults hanging around with kids though. I think that most of the time, it's probably okay, but I do know that there are sick people even within a church. I think it would need to be handled extremely carefully. And yes, even aside from whether or not the person was evangelizing for my faith, I'd be a bit concerned if my kid came home, told me how cool his new tutor was, and asked to go to some event at a church that wasn't mine.

[PiCO]

I don't really see how tutoring students and then inviting them to an off-campus Bible study or whatever is any different from a team going to a poor country, building a house or helping to heal sick people, and inviting those people to a church service.

 

I don't see the difference either. There's a line that should not be crossed. Go there to help. Inviting them (the students or the poor people) to a church service should be secondary, not the primary goal.

 

I think it's unethical when people volunteer at a school for the sole purpose of recruiting students for their religion. I think it's unethical for people to go to a poor country under the guise of building houses or healing sick people when their real goal is to "save their souls".

[Gooblink]

I don't see the difference either. There's a line that should not be crossed. Go there to help. Inviting them (the students or the poor people) to a church service should be secondary, not the primary goal.

 

I think it's unethical when people volunteer at a school for the sole purpose of recruiting students for their religion. I think it's unethical for people to go to a poor country under the guise of building houses or healing sick people when their real goal is to "save their souls".

 

Really? It's not like anybody's being held at gunpoint (except the missionaries, in many cases). If someone is going to accept "salvation" why would you - or anybody - have a problem with that?

 

Now, I'm not entirely supportive of missions as a business, but the people who truly go to build houses and heal sick people to share the love of Christ...c'mon, what could be offensive about that?

 

The thing about "salvation" for many of us, is that it has nothing to do with what happens after death and everything to do with peace, joy and giving of self in this life. That's what we want to share with others.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Gooblink

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Really? It's not like anybody's being held at gunpoint (except the missionaries, in many cases). If someone is going to accept "salvation" why would you - or anybody - have a problem with that?

 

Now, I'm not entirely supportive of missions as a business, but the people who truly go to build houses and heal sick people to share the love of Christ...c'mon, what could be offensive about that?

 

The thing about "salvation" for many of us, is that it has nothing to do with what happens after death and everything to do with peace, joy and giving of self in this life. That's what we want to share with others.

 

What is offensive is that there is a power differential, even between missionary and potential convert. With JUST GIVING there is no hope, no expectation of conversion, it is simply a true act of giving, but when the giver gives IN HOPE OF RETURN. (conversion, church visit,etc.) it is NOT all that altruistic, after all, there are strings attached.

 

There should be NO strings attached to giving. If there ARE, it becomes a transaction.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

This disgusting description was found on their own website:

 

Young Life is making a difference in the lives of high school and middle school kids in the Greater OKC area. Here's an example: Rob regularly attends practices at the high school where he is a leader. At first Rob, did not know many of the guys on the various teams, but after weeks of watching practice he began to get to know who they were and talk with some of the players. One day, one of the players approached Rob. "You come to watch us practice a lot don't you?" the young man asked Rob. "Yes I do, Rob said. "That's cool," the young mand said. "No one does that."

 

Many of those same guys went to camp with Rob and 5 of those guys came to know Christ. All of this from just being faithful and showing up at practice.

[SilverMoonlight]

What is offensive is that there is a power differential, even between missionary and potential convert.

 

:iagree:

[Murphy101]

The OP said that Young Life leaders are volunteering as tutors and assistant coaches at schools, befriending the students, and then inviting them to off-campus events. This is what some people have a problem with, not the student-led clubs.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm not really very familiar with YL, specifically, but I don't really see it as being any different from other sorts of outreaches. Jesus Himself used this method -- he saw that people needed physical healing from illness, or emotional comfort (like the woman at the well), and once people saw that He cared and could do something about the problems they faced, they were more open to His message.

 

Jesus was always very clear about who he was/is and what his purpose was/is.

 

I don't see Jesus healing someone in order for them to be more open to convert them. In fact, they sought him out specificly bc they already believed he could heal them.

 

The woman at the well was not comforted and then open to his message. He gives his message from the very start. He asks for water, she expresses surprise that a Jew would ask a Samaritan woman for anything. Jesus says that if she understood who he is and what he has to offer, she would and the conversation proceeds from their.

 

I don't really see how tutoring students and then inviting them to an off-campus Bible study or whatever is any different from a team going to a poor country, building a house or helping to heal sick people, and inviting those people to a church service.

 

Really? You don't see a difference between helping adults build a house or giving them medical care and them possibly showing an interest in your church vs an adult who is supposed to be tutoring or teaching inviting some kid?

 

Well I do. For that matter, as an adult, I would be offended if my dr invited me to his church too. I'm not there for invitations. Be professional and just do the job with kindness. What a novel idea.

 

Even when Christians open a school in an impoverished area, it's very up front. This is a Christian school. The parents know this. It's not like they are saying they are a state school and then trying to convert kids. That would be wrong and misleading to the parents. If I send my kid to get tutoring, that's ALL I'm expecting them to get. Not your POV on Christ or recruiting for your cause. Just do the tutoring!

[astrid]

This whole thread has blown me away. You mean a school just allows random "young men" to watch practices every day? Someone who is not a parent or affiliated with the school in any way? He just sits there and watches the boys, none of whom he knew, run around a field? Then slowly gains their trust by initiating small, "I'm just interested in you!" conversations with the boys??? I"m sorry-- that just screams "CREEPER!!!!" to me!

 

I would be very, very uncomfortable with this. Does this not ring alarm bells with anyone else?

 

astrid

[LidiyaDawn]

This whole thread has blown me away. You mean a school just allows random "young men" to watch practices every day? Someone who is not a parent or affiliated with the school in any way? He just sits there and watches the boys, none of whom he knew, run around a field? Then slowly gains their trust by initiating small, "I'm just interested in you!" conversations with the boys??? I"m sorry-- that just screams "CREEPER!!!!" to me!

 

I would be very, very uncomfortable with this. Does this not ring alarm bells with anyone else?

 

astrid

 

See this makes me sad about the world... why is it assumed that someone who shows kindness toward others is "creepy"? (Don't we have a RAOK thread started up here right now? I guess a lot of those - things done out of kindness, caring, etc, could be "creepy" too.)

 

Someone cares - deeply - about other people and wants to share the truth about Jesus with them.... that comes from love, not from 'creepy' things.

 

I get what you're going at, but I just refuse to live under those sorts of assumptions... with that kind of fear....

 

(this was on my mind recently, after reading another thread here with a lot of people going "never trust anyone!" ... I just can't live that way.)

 

/slightly rambling