A holiday WWYD?

[fhjmom]

I *really* do not feel like going to our traditional family Thanksgiving. My mom is one of ten very close siblings; they and all their multiple generations - everyone has grandkids and some great grandkids - gather at one of my uncle's house for Thanksgiving. It usually ends up being around 80 people. We do similar gatherings for Christmas and Easter but different locations. Last Christmas, one of my aunts (Mom's sister) approached me and caused a huge altercation. When I realized she was not willing to listen to anything I had to say in response, I just tried to get away from her (partly related to our decision to begin homeschooling last year, but that was only the tip of the iceberg). It got really ugly (cuss words, name calling, shoving) and honestly all I was doing was walking away. Our step-DD (now 19) was living with the aunt & uncle (Mom's brother) who hosts Thanksgiving for a while. That whole scenario did do go like I hoped. Part of this situation was just one other thing that other aunt attacked me about.

 

Basically over the last year and a half, my whole view of what my family was like has drastically changed for the worse. I feel like several family members heard very small bits of information and immediately assumed the worst of me, then attacked. No one ever came to me and asked to hear our part of the story. No one ever was interested in truly helping, only judging. I know I have not been perfect but before I always felt like family was about unconditional love; I always thought that family would truly be there if I needed them; not feeling that way so much any more.

 

So I feel like every time I walk into a family function I am either a target, or I have to carefully guard anything I say because certain people will twist any information. I feel uncomfortable and fake. I honestly have no desire to have any relationship with that particular aunt again. I will be polite to her if in the same room and walk away from any confrontation if she tries to start one again, but beyond that I have nothing. The sad thing is the two aunts & uncles that have caused me so much hurt were the ones in the family I was really closest to. I never expected them to do this to me. I love the rest of my family but am not particularly close to any of them. They all talk so much that I am not even comfortable sharing anything with those not responsible for hurting me because I know they will talk with the ones that were.

 

I wish I could just do our own family thing and start our own traditions, yada, yada, yada, but...

 

My mother will not let me out of it. I tried to skip Easter (it was at the confrontational aunt's house) and it turned into WW III with my mom. Nothing short of "making nice" with her family is going to make my mom happy (just going and being polite is not enough for her). I honestly don't know how to "make nice" - they attacked me. I did actually try to talk to the aunt and uncle that DD lived with about it once and he said "It's in the past," and wouldn't discuss it - ummmmm, that's my biggest problem, you won't discuss it with us so it's not in the past for me. I offered to write a letter to the other aunt and even gave my mom a copy of a draft and that upset her even more. I can't pretend like nothing ever happened, I have been hurt too badly; but that is in essence what my mom wants me to do. Things will never be the same between my family and me. It also hurts that I don't think my mother realizes how badly her brother and sister have hurt me and she won't stick up for me (she is the ultimate peace-keeper).

 

If I thought there was anything I could do to make it better, I would. I just have completely changed how I feel about them because of how they treated me. I do not wish them ill, I just have no desire to seek out a relationship. I don't know why my mom can't accept that. My mom and I are *very* close, we talk almost every day and I see her and my dad several times a week. She really is not the manipulative kind, she just wants everyone to get along (but by her definition of "get along"). She also has gone through cancer treatment during all this and that has had a huge toll on her so I don't want to upset her, it just seems like every time something about a holiday family gathering comes up, she ends up upset at me all over again. I am sick of feeling this way about the holidays. I have offered to do the best I can and that isn't enough. I have told my mother very frankly how I feel and that hurts her that I don't want to try to restore a relationship with her siblings.

 

Anyway, sorry for the book; I really tried to be brief, LOL!. My DH supports me in whatever I decide to do, he just hates seeing me so upset. None of his family is not close at all so family dynamics is lost to him. I guess it is more of a vent and need for hugs, but I am willing to listen to any ideas.

[Night Elf]

Basically over the last year and a half, my whole view of what my family was like has drastically changed for the worse. I feel like several family members heard very small bits of information and immediately assumed the worst of me, then attacked. No one ever came to me and asked to hear our part of the story. No one ever was interested in truly helping, only judging.

 

For anyone who asked, this is exactly what I would tell them. I'd also ask if they aren't willing to walk into a pit of viper snakes, why should you.

 

I wish I could just do our own family thing and start our own traditions, yada, yada, yada, but... My mother will not let me out of it.

 

Yeah, well, this doesn't fly with me at all. It does for some people, but when I married, I immediately had my OWN family to think about. My DH always comes before anyone else. So if my mother acted like that, I'd tell her it was time for her to grow up and wear her big girl underpants and get over it. And I wouldn't entertain any mean words. I went through something similar and I'd very politely tell my mom that when she was interested in talking to me nicely, I would be glad to have a conversation with her, and I would hang up. But that's just me. Holidays shouldn't suck, especially for my children who are forming memories that will last them the rest of their lives.

[Chris in VA]

It also hurts that I don't think my mother realizes how badly her brother and sister have hurt me and she won't stick up for me (she is the ultimate peace-keeper).

 

I would think that this would hurt most of all.

 

I'm sorry. :grouphug:

 

I'd probably put in an appearance, then leave early. Be as kind as you can be.

 

As far as this goes:

 

Things will never be the same between my family and me.

 

You are right, things will be different.

That doesn't mean they can't be good, tho.

 

I challenge you to give to them that unconditional love that is not based on behavior that you thought they'd give to you. I hate to say "suck it up for Christ," but maybe you can show them how to love by loving them.

 

Again, I'm sorry you have to deal with hurtful people who just don't seem to have a clue.

 

ETA: And I just read Night Elf's reply, and have to say that I agree about starting your own traditions--but still hold out hope that your large family gathering could be part of it. As long as THEY aren't attacked and don't see you getting attacked, I think it'd be ok.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Chris in VA

[Rosie_0801]

Don't go.

 

Life has enough problems without deliberately going to visit them. What it comes down to is they don't like you and you don't like them anymore either.

 

It sucks when people who are supposed to care won't stick up for you. I've been, uh, blessed with relatives like that too. Your mum will just have to deal.

 

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[fairfarmhand]

Don't go.

 

Life has enough problems without deliberately going to visit them. What it comes down to is they don't like you and you don't like them anymore either.

 

It sucks when people who are supposed to care won't stick up for you. I've been, uh, blessed with relatives like that too. Your mum will just have to deal.

 

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

 

:iagree:

I wouldn't go at all.

 

 

If mom wants to get all crazy she should get all crazy on those nutty relative of yours.

[Pam Wilhelm]

After enduring family get togethers with my family or my husband's family for 8 years before we had kids my husband said that once we had kids we were going to stay home and do our own thing. Boy howdy!! We sure made a lot of people mad!!! LOL Now our oldest is 12 and we have continued to do our own thing..... and we really enjoy it. We have always had our home open for company...should they decide to come out.... but only my parents and a sister would visit. So, I guess the ones with the loudest mouth to complain really didn't miss us THAT much. :D Now we are 1600 miles away from family and it is no longer an issue...............

 

........and don't even ask what hubby's family thought when we stopped exchanging presents ( my family stopped giving presents decades ago)! You would have thought that we had single handedly killed Santa on the front lawn. :lol: Stupid. They're idea of Christmas was to try and out buy everyone else in the family and then brag about it. We couldn't and wouldn't keep up.

 

I love our holidays....we do what we want, give what we want to whomever we want.... donating to various charities instead of spending the money on family that only sneers at what we give and throws our gifts in a corner (no joke).

[delaney]

I say don't go. I may conveniently have the flu on Thanksgiving Day and need to be up in my room the whole day-lol. You are an adult and if they care to call and see where you are tell them!

[Jean in Newcastle]

It sounds like the crux of it is that your mom is hanging her happiness on what you do. And that is not only unfair but is impossible to deliver on. You can't change the past or your feelings of hurt or wanting to protect yourself from more hurt and I don't think you need to. You need to either go on your own terms (polite but distant) or don't go and do the holidays with your immediate family. :grouphug:

[Danestress]

But I also would not go if they were the nicest people in the universe, because I would not spend my holidays with a crowd of 80 unless under extreme duress. And then they really would have to be ultra-great people.

 

I would just tell Mom "no." The way to do this is to just tell her, "We already decided" and just stick to it. "Sorry, Mom, we already decided." I would not make it about people in who have been rude or about your negative feelings. I would just tell her, "We want to have a smaller, quieter Thanksgiving with just our immediate family this year." And I would invite her. I consider my mother ( and MIL) part of our closest circle. But I would NOT attend, and I would not argue with her, and I would not justify it. You don't have to. You are the Mom now. You can just make plans!

[BigMamaBird]

But I also would not go if they were the nicest people in the universe, because I would not spend my holidays with a crowd of 80 unless under extreme duress. And then they really would have to be ultra-great people.

 

I would just tell Mom "no." The way to do this is to just tell her, "We already decided" and just stick to it. "Sorry, Mom, we already decided." I would not make it about people in who have been rude or about your negative feelings. I would just tell her, "We want to have a smaller, quieter Thanksgiving with just our immediate family this year." And I would invite her. I consider my mother ( and MIL) part of our closest circle. But I would NOT attend, and I would not argue with her, and I would not justify it. You don't have to. You are the Mom now. You can just make plans!

 

:iagree: What she said!

[Forget-Me-Not]

My mother will not let me out of it. I tried to skip Easter (it was at the confrontational aunt's house) and it turned into WW III with my mom. Nothing short of "making nice" with her family is going to make my mom happy (just going and being polite is not enough for her).

 

Let her wage WWIII. She's every bit abusive as your aunt, just in a different way. You're not required to engage in her drama. Tell her calmly, ONCE, that you will not be attending and that it is not up for further discussion. When she starts to scream and carry on, hang up the phone. When she sends you nasty emails, delete them without responding. If you're in the room with her and she starts up, walk out or escort her out of your home. It will probably be ugly for a time while you enforce your boundaries and she ups the ante on the drama and guilt to try to get you to back down. Prepare yourself for it, then hold your ground and DO NOT ENGAGE.

 

Your mom can't make you attend. Can she scream and yell and call names and leave nasty messages and write nasty emails? Yes. Can she FORCE you go to Thanksgiving? No.

 

Stay home, with the ringer off, and enjoy making traditions with your own family. Your husband and kids are your *immediate* family, and your mother and everyone else has been relegated to extended family.

Edited November 15, 2010 by LemonPie

[tex-mex]

I have yet to read beyond the first post... so forgive me. You are in between a rock and a hard place. :grouphug:

 

You don't have much of a choice -- if you wish to honor your mom, you bite the bullet and do your duty and enter the viper's pit. You lose any hope of a true reconciliation with relatives as it sounds like the family dysfunction is to shove all past hurt under the carpet, kwim? No one talks. No one forgives. That may be why your aunt has rage issues and your mom is the peacemaker. This is one battle you will never win and will always be the black sheep. Only time will reveal your innocence and by then, the aunt will have passed on and none of the remaining relatives will care. But the damage is done.

 

Next option is to hold on to your dignity and remove yourself from any future family function or gathering. By doing so, you will have created a safe boundary of being hurt in the future. The loss is obvious by your mother's side of the family you come across as a terrible ds and rumors fly. This brings heartache to your mom. But what choice do you have? Again, you lose emotionally as you can not bring up the past hurt as no one will offer you a peace offering. But you do have your family new traditions to celebrate. DH sounds supportive too.

 

You may need to talk about this to a therapist or someone in confidence. At this point, you need to let go of the toxicity, pain and forgive. Move on.

[Rosie_0801]

If a mother requires you to paint "kick me" on your forehead, then place yourself in the best kicking position, she has funny ideas on what honouring her means.

[tex-mex]

If a mother requires you to paint "kick me" on your forehead, then place yourself in the best kicking position, she has funny ideas on what honouring her means.

:iagree:

[2cents]

Having BTDT, I finally learned to say NO. Life is too short to spend the holidays enduring anxiety and torture. Stay home and make your own pleasant traditions. :)

[kalanamak]

 

My mother will not let me out of it. I tried to skip Easter (it was at the confrontational aunt's house) and it turned into WW III with my mom. Nothing short of "making nice" with her family is going to make my mom happy (just going and being polite is not enough for her).

 

Don't go. It is your mom's job to make herself happy. If she started WWIII over this, she is, I'm sorry to tell you, cut of the same cloth as her sister.

 

If you can't stand the pre-TGing drama, just don't show. If there are 80 people all the food will be eaten. This may seem backhanded, but if people are unreasonable (WWIII is unreasonable), you have to shield what you can. If you think Mom will panic, call her when she is there and reassure her you are fine, but won't be there.

 

I left town for a couple years after the "bad" Thanksgiving (the third instance in a row where it was clear hubby's family only came over and were pleasant when they were trying to gain a financial advantage), and by now they have caught on I'm not making a feast again, nor showing up for the Christmas party at the house of the nephew-in-law who no longer speaks to us. So I don't have to leave town this year, yea!

 

I'd be very warm and friendly to mom ("reward") when she is being pleasant, and ignore/avoid/hang-up on the WWIII ("extinction") behavior.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I hated this with my ILs. It is worse, I'm sure, with a mom. But really......rude behavior at a family party, confrontation? Simply infra-dig!

[Mejane]

My mother will not let me out of it. I tried to skip Easter (it was at the confrontational aunt's house) and it turned into WW III with my mom.

 

Sorry, but you're going to have to be a grownup and just say no to toxic relatives. Your mom will have to do her own growing up and realize you're now a big girl who can make her own holiday plans. Tell her she's welcome to join you if she likes, but you won't be listening to any lectures about what she thinks you should have done.

 

If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids who have to watch the drama unfold. They deserve happy holidays with a loving family and their own traditions, right? :)

[GWOB]

Are we related? This type of incident happens every time my dad's family gets together, and they do it every stinking year! I just moved far away.

 

Listen, your mom's job is to protect you first and foremost. Unless you killed someone, it is her job to stick up for you and take your side, at least in front of her siblings. Now, if you really did something foolish, she can confront you on that in private. Instead of defending you, protecting you, and sticking up for you, she is using you to keep the peace. You are not a pawn. You are under no obligation to go there with your tail between your legs to placate your mother.

 

I understand how mothers can make it seem like the world is ending if you do not bend to their desires. After we got out of the Navy, we decided not to move to where my parents live. My parents pulled out every guilt trip trick in the book. "What about your grandma/aunts/unlces/cousins?" What about them? In the 12 years since I've lived near family, my grandma has visited me once. Not a single aunt, uncle, or cousin has ever visited me or even called me. I think everyone gets together so often because it is convenient.

 

We have made our own special traditions for the Holidays. My husband and kids are my family, my priority. Everyone else is just related to me.

[WTMCassandra]

Sorry, but you're going to have to be a grownup and just say no to toxic relatives. Your mom will have to do her own growing up and realize you're now a big girl who can make her own holiday plans. Tell her she's welcome to join you if she likes, but you won't be listening to any lectures about what she thinks you should have done.

 

If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids who have to watch the drama unfold. They deserve happy holidays with a loving family and their own traditions, right? :)

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I agree with her, and with all of the other posters that said that your Mom will have to put on her big-girl panties. Let WWIII happen--just duck. Hang up, escort your Mom to the door, whatever you have to do to weather the storm.

 

Kalanamak was absolutely right--your mother is cut from the same cloth. The enabler/peacemaker is vital in a toxic system to keep more malleable family members in line (that's you) to placate the toxic person. She is throwing you under the bus. This is WRONG.

 

Please don't sacrifice your own family's holiday on the altar of placating toxic relatives. Life's too short.

[Hedgehog]

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this situation. :grouphug: My family are rather similar, so I think I know where you are coming from.

 

Last Christmas, one of my aunts (Mom's sister) approached me and caused a huge altercation. When I realized she was not willing to listen to anything I had to say in response, I just tried to get away from her (partly related to our decision to begin homeschooling last year, but that was only the tip of the iceberg). It got really ugly (cuss words, name calling, shoving) and honestly all I was doing was walking away. Our step-DD (now 19) was living with the aunt & uncle (Mom's brother) who hosts Thanksgiving for a while. That whole scenario did do go like I hoped. Part of this situation was just one other thing that other aunt attacked me about.

 

Your decisions are just that - yours. It's not for anyone to tell you how to go on, especially not accompanied by verbal and physical aggression. Your aunt sounds like she was behaving like a toddler!

 

Basically over the last year and a half, my whole view of what my family was like has drastically changed for the worse. I feel like several family members heard very small bits of information and immediately assumed the worst of me, then attacked. No one ever came to me and asked to hear our part of the story. No one ever was interested in truly helping, only judging. I know I have not been perfect but before I always felt like family was about unconditional love; I always thought that family would truly be there if I needed them; not feeling that way so much any more.

 

I totally understand how you feel. We recently had a situation where my whole family simply assumed the worst without asking us anything. We had emails and phone calls which were full of judgement and there were no questions asked about why we had made the decision. I, too, believe that family should be about unconditional love, but I think it must mean different things to different people.

 

The sad thing is the two aunts & uncles that have caused me so much hurt were the ones in the family I was really closest to. I never expected them to do this to me. I love the rest of my family but am not particularly close to any of them. They all talk so much that I am not even comfortable sharing anything with those not responsible for hurting me because I know they will talk with the ones that were.

 

I hear you. I think that some of those who are closest to us believe themselves to be entitled freely and dogmatically expressing their opinions to us, and to some control over what we do. And gossip is so damaging. But love isn't about making people do what you think is best for them, it's about listening to what they want for themselves, and encouraging and helping them to achieve it.

 

I wish I could just do our own family thing and start our own traditions, yada, yada, yada, but...

 

My mother will not let me out of it. I tried to skip Easter (it was at the confrontational aunt's house) and it turned into WW III with my mom. Nothing short of "making nice" with her family is going to make my mom happy (just going and being polite is not enough for her).

 

I totally understand. It is so very difficult to break out of the way things have always been, especially with family. In a funny way I can see why your mom sees no reason why you can't make nice, smooth things over and carry on as before, but it won't change anything for you. You'll have to deal with the uncomfortableness of what's gone before in addition to their usual toxicity. It's stressful and tiring and not what you want for a holiday season but I am thinking that one big WW III might be better than this ongoing, year after year stress.

 

If I thought there was anything I could do to make it better, I would. I just have completely changed how I feel about them because of how they treated me. I do not wish them ill, I just have no desire to seek out a relationship. I don't know why my mom can't accept that.

 

Because she can't see through your eyes, or feel your hurt, if she has never experienced anything like it. She has probably avoided it all her life by being "the ultimate peacekeeper".

 

My mom and I are *very* close, we talk almost every day and I see her and my dad several times a week. She really is not the manipulative kind, she just wants everyone to get along (but by her definition of "get along"). She also has gone through cancer treatment during all this and that has had a huge toll on her so I don't want to upset her, it just seems like every time something about a holiday family gathering comes up, she ends up upset at me all over again. I am sick of feeling this way about the holidays. I have offered to do the best I can and that isn't enough. I have told my mother very frankly how I feel and that hurts her that I don't want to try to restore a relationship with her siblings.

 

You say that your mom isn't the manipulative kind, but is that really true? I'm only questioning that because I don't think unmanipulative people try to persuade someone to do something they don't want to do, but your mom IS doing that. You have told her how you feel, but she is hurt and therefore in order to stop her hurt she wants you to change your mind. Isn't that trying to manipulate someone, even if it's done gently and almost passively?

 

I'm truly sorry that she's been poorly and I understand that you would feel bad about opposing her at the moment. But she needs to own her feelings. You have not made her upset, she has become upset due to her response to your action or speech; she cannot blame you for the way she is choosing to feel. So don't feel guilty for her hurt. As another poster said, she is a big girl now.

 

I hope you can find a solution. It would be easy for me to say, don't go, but I know that I probably wouldn't be able to follow this good advice myself, as my sense of duty to my extended family is very strong (too much so I think, something I am giving a lot of thought to). I suppose you could agree to go, but resolve (with your dh's support) to leave immediately if anything untoward occurred. And plan from the start to make your visit as short as possible.

 

:grouphug: to you. It'll work out. :001_smile:

[Guest]

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

With everyone. It will be hard and you will experience a little grieving time but you must do this if only to be an example to your children of how healthy adults have relationships.

[Catwoman]

Listen, your mom's job is to protect you first and foremost. Unless you killed someone, it is her job to stick up for you and take your side, at least in front of her siblings. Now, if you really did something foolish, she can confront you on that in private. Instead of defending you, protecting you, and sticking up for you, she is using you to keep the peace. You are not a pawn. You are under no obligation to go there with your tail between your legs to placate your mother.

 

:iagree:

 

I realize that the situation is more difficult for you because of your mom's illness. I'm sure you're feeling guilty at the thought of upsetting her, and I can't say that I blame you for that.

 

My mom always stood up for me and no one ever dared to make even the slightest disparaging comment about me, because, well, no one messed with my mom. She never yelled or even raised her voice, but she was a force to be reckoned with! I wish your mom was more like that, because by allowing the relatives to be mean to you, she is giving her approval to their terrible behavior, and that's just plain wrong.

 

Have you explained all of this to your mom, and told her how disappointed you are that she doesn't have your back in these family situations? It must really hurt your feelings.

 

Also, if your mom will be upset if you don't go to the family holidays, let her know that she'll be even more upset if you do go, because this time around, you're not going to put up with anyone's nastiness, and that you fully intend to defend yourself. Additionally, shouldn't she care more about your feelings than about what the relatives will think if you don't show up?

 

And if you're feeling particularly cowardly, tell her that your dh won't go, because he's angry at the way you've been treated, and let him take the heat from your mom. :tongue_smilie:

 

By the way, how did your dh react when your relatives turned on you the last time? My dh would have stepped right in and put a stop to it if he thought I needed help. Of course, I'm just like my mom, so I probably wouldn't have needed any backup.... ;) :001_cool:

Edited November 16, 2010 by Catwoman
typos, as usual!

[RoughCollie]

I Last Christmas, one of my aunts (Mom's sister) approached me and caused a huge altercation. When I realized she was not willing to listen to anything I had to say in response, I just tried to get away from her (partly related to our decision to begin homeschooling last year, but that was only the tip of the iceberg). It got really ugly (cuss words, name calling, shoving) and honestly all I was doing was walking away.

 

You have made other plans. Stay home!

[JVA]

Having BTDT, I finally learned to say NO. Life is too short to spend the holidays enduring anxiety and torture. Stay home and make your own pleasant traditions. :)

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

This is what we've done with the only family nearby. The sil has NPD,is toxic & bil is an enabler and spineless. I was tired of crummy holidays and my dh FINALLY has cut contact - it's his brother. My attitude about the holidays has been improving over the last few years and I wish I knew THEN what I know NOW. Take care of yourself and give your children a holiday that is just for them. Blessings on you.

[bettyandbob]

You have your own family. It is your responsibility to develop positive traditions your dc look forward to.

 

You didn't say anything about how your dc feel about these events, but it can't be good for them to see you stressed out every holiday.

 

Plan your Thanksgiving now. Have something with just your kids and plan a special outing together (iceskating) or invite a neighbor family who also isn't visiting relatives. One year my family went to Great Wolf Lodge for Thanksgiving because our house was in the process of major reconstruction after a flood. The place was fully booked and most of the moms I talked to at the pool were there to avoid an extended family gathering.

 

Start figuring out Christmas now. What would be a really nice way for your family to spend that day.

 

You will hear from your mom about this. If you have siblings you will hear from this too. You may have to block or hide messages on facebook. You may want to screen phone calls. It will be a bummer that the rumor mill will churn about you. You will need to develop a way to handle that stress. But you need the strength to stand up for yourself and to develop good family traditions for your family.

[RanchGirl]

'Mom, I love you and I have too much respect for you to fight with you. Nor do I wish to cause you any additional stress. But I have too much respect for myself to allow you to make my decisions for me. Dh and I have decided to have Thanksgiving here and that decision is final. You are welcome to join us, dinner is at 4:00. If you can't make it then, how about we get together for lunch or a movie the weekend after? I'd love to try out XYZ restaurant...'

 

In my book, honoring your parents does not mean allowing them to control you. It means treating them with courtesy and respect. If you can't say it on the phone without it erupting into excessive drama, then email might be better, to keep things polite and give her time to calm down before reacting.

 

Also just so you know, it sounds like you have a great reason not to go to your Aunt's, but even if they hadn't treated you badly, and you just didn't feel like going this year, that's totally ok too. Cuz you're a grown up, so you get to decide for yourself. So put on the bgp's my friend! :)

[Kate CA]

My mother will not let me out of it. I tried to skip Easter (it was at the confrontational aunt's house) and it turned into WW III with my mom.

 

I notice a lot of people are commenting on this particular phrase and I think with good reason. No one can make you do anything you do not wish to do. I love my family, and respect them and enjoy their company, but no one *controls* me that way.

 

No one controls you either, unless you let them. If your dh does not care and you want to start your own traditions, do so. If you mother doesn't like it then it sounds like a) you need to have an honest conversation with your mother wherein you tell her she doesn't get to make your life choices for you or; b) you let her control you. It is still your choice. What do you want to do for Thanksgiving?

[OrganicAnn]

I agree with all the pp who said do your own Thanksgiving. If you feel that you can't talk to your mom and not have it turn into WWIII, maybe you could talk to a counselor to help you.

 

It sounds like you have a very close relationship with your parents, which is fine as long as it is a healthy relationship.

[gaillardia]

I haven't read all the other posts yet, but wanted to tell you before I forget: You will be amazed at how liberating it will be when you fly your own flag and declare your independence! You will feel free and happy.:001_smile:

It's funny but it seemed like sometimes on the holidays when I really did not want to be involved with one family or another, we would get really sick. I mean high fevers, puking, etc. or the other flu with cough, headache, fever. Sometimes we were not thought of highly for it, but it seemed like I didn't score any points on one side ever anyway.

 

I would almost suggest you start camping on holidays. Or going to the movies, eating out, picnic. It is time to start new traditions.:grouphug:

[RanchGirl]

It's funny but it seemed like sometimes on the holidays when I really did not want to be involved with one family or another, we would get really sick. I mean high fevers, puking, etc. or the other flu with cough, headache, fever. Sometimes we were not thought of highly for it, but it seemed like I didn't score any points on one side ever anyway.

 

 

oh my goodness yes. This has happened to us multiple times with both dh's family and my dads and I never put it together. Very severe flus seem to run rampant through our family a few days after we have sacrificed our own family time be with unpleasant people who really don't want to spend time with us on the holidays (or any other time); they just think we should be there for show so it doesn't look bad to so and so. And let me tell you, not a one of them lifted a finger to help us through the illnesses either.

 

And yes, it has been extremely liberating to start making our own plans based on what dh and I actually want to do.

[eternalknot]

My mom is one of ten very close siblings; they and all their multiple generations - everyone has grandkids and some great grandkids - gather at one of my uncle's house for Thanksgiving.

 

My mother comes from a family of the same size; she also had a family about the same size, as have some of her siblings. My father has no living family, so holidays are - and always have been - with mom's side. We are an incredibly close-knit extended family, and I relate well to your situation. Our holidays involve over 100 people, easily.

 

Last Christmas, one of my aunts (Mom's sister) approached me and caused a huge altercation.

 

Seven years ago, I had a nearly identical experience with my mom's sister. This particular aunt was mom's best friend and a second mother to me (she lived with us my entire life). She was also the family pot-stirrer in general. Very hard to love sometimes, even according to her own mother. But I did. Wholly.

 

Our disagreement was about another relative's personal situation and had nothing to do with either of us directly. My aunt verbally assaulted me at a gathering, and it devestated me. She has ignored me ever since, refusing to even look at me or answer me when I speak directly to her. It took me three years to finally get over it, move on, and feel at peace with the 180 our relationship had taken. Those three years were particularly tough for our family, but especially for my mother who felt stuck between us. She neither defended nor excused either of us, and other relatives railed us about the position our respective prides had put my mother in.

 

It's been eight years and she still won't make eye-contact with me, or speak to me -- not even indirectly. To her credit, she has never taken our disagreement beyond us. She is still a very much loving and attentive aunt to my children, even to the one born after our incident (as much as one can be while ignoring the child's mother, anyhow).

 

All that to say that I've been in a similar situation.

 

Basically over the last year and a half, my whole view of what my family was like has drastically changed for the worse.

 

:grouphug: I have BTDT. I think it's something many people experience at some point in their adult lives, whether instigated by a specific incident - or not. When you have a specific situation to "credit" with the realization that you're family is flawed, you feel even more blind-sided. Hurt.

 

Families are no more than the individuals that comprise them. We sometimes hold families to a higher standard than we do individual relatives. Unconditional love is the goal, but not the guarantee. And it's not even that the guarantee was intentionally left unmet, you know? It may just have been too high a standard for the time being. And I know how depressing that is -- to think that unconditional love is too high a standard to be met -- but for some, it is. I know that as a parent, wife, daughter, sister, and inlaw I'm guilty of not always living up to it (even if my heart is there, maybe my actions are not).

 

I know that if something horrible were to happen, my aunt would pull through and be there for me. It's sad to know that it would take something drastic, but I'm certain of it. I can't explain how. My husband doesn't believe me, nor does my brother. But I know. Given what you've described of your family in the first part of your original post, I sense that your family would do the same for you. It's not always easy to see that when we're hurting, though. I know that, too.

 

So I feel like every time I walk into a family function I am either a target, or I have to carefully guard anything I say because certain people will twist any information. I feel uncomfortable and fake.

 

And maybe right now you are a target, and do have to guard what you say. It's unfair. It's not relaxing or fun at all to spend a holiday feeling uncomfortable and fake. Why bother, right? Because you want to practice the same unconditional love for your family that you're looking for. It won't always feel like this, be like this. It's awkwardness will pass, especially if you face it head on; left to fester, it will only exacerbate and grow.

 

I honestly have no desire to have any relationship with that particular aunt again. I will be polite to her if in the same room and walk away from any confrontation if she tries to start one again, but beyond that I have nothing. The sad thing is the two aunts & uncles that have caused me so much hurt were the ones in the family I was really closest to.

 

Again, this sounds exactly like my situation. I'm cordial to her, despite her continued silent treatment. I'm doing all I can; demonstrating to my kids an example I hope they follow; showing my mom and the rest of our family that they mean more to me than anything else, by grunting through the discomfort. In time, the family has come around to see that it's been my aunt all along - not me. That was just a side benefit, and it feels horribly shallow to admit but there it is.

 

I can't pretend like nothing ever happened, I have been hurt too badly; but that is in essence what my mom wants me to do.

 

And you shouldn't have to. Needn't to. She's a peace-keeper, so her way of handling this might look like thaat she advocates that but I bet her heart hurts for you (and her sister, etc.) But this isn't about her, it's about you. I had several uncomfortable discussions with my mother, many of them through tears, about the Situation with my aunt. Heck, we were all living under the same roof still. For so long I felt like she wasn't acknowledging my feelings and ME. I wanted validation. From her.

 

I had to give up that dream. It wasn't going to happen. It's not her M.O. Just like I couldn't be the peace-keeper she is and stuff it all inside, nor could she understand my need to talk and process this -- with her. SHe's a bury your head, sweep it under the rug person; I'm a let's beat this horse past dead kind of gal. We had to respect each other where the other was, while still being true to our own needs. It wasn't easy, but we did it. You can, too, if you decide it means that much to you. "It" being her, family, peace of mind ...

 

She also has gone through cancer treatment during all this and that has had a huge toll on her so I don't want to upset her, it just seems like every time something about a holiday family gathering comes up, she ends up upset at me all over again. I have told my mother very frankly how I feel and that hurts her that I don't want to try to restore a relationship with her siblings.

 

This is worth examining further. I'm not sure what her cancer status is, but having just walked a different aunt through this I do know that while her diagnosis was never terminal -- she internalized it as though it was. Cancer, to her, was always a death sentence. Things that appeared minor to me, appeared larger through her mirror IYKWIM. This would especially be true of issues relating to family.

 

:grouphug:

 

You have to stay true to your own needs but here's my bias: I come from a culture where one's own needs are always secondary to the family's. There are times I've embraced it and times I've rebelled against it. Ultimately, I keep coming back around to that place where I can take the best of it and leave the rest of it. For me that meant hard conversations with my mom and sucking it up to attend family functions where I know I'm going to be ignored. It's a beating to my psyche sometimes, but the trade-off is that I know it's all about my aunt - and not about me any more. I know that for every hurtful encounter with her at any given gathering, I'll earn twofold in happier encounters with another relative at the same gathering. As will my kids, who I've tried not to drag into the drama with my aunt by allowing them their own relationship with her and with our extended family (by virtue of showing up to holidays). Not easy. SO worthwhile, though.

[Mom in High Heels]

Your mom can't make you go. Tell her you won't be there and let the chips fall where they may. She'll get over it or not. You are a grown woman and can make your own decisions. 80+ people does not sound like my idea of fun anyway.

Stay home and have a relaxing family holiday. Start your own traditions. Watch the T-giving parade, write down what you're thankful for and read it out loud to each other, play board games, whatever.

[Alphabetika]

You say that your mom isn't manipulative, but, honestly, from your description of her tactics, I think she is. I think you and your own family would be so much happier at home. I hope you come to a peaceful resolution.

[asta]

 

My mother will not let me out of it.

 

You're an adult: Let yourself out of it.

 

 

asta

[mysticamethyst]

You have gotten some great advice just wanted to give you some :grouphug::grouphug:. It really stinks when its your family causing stress when there are so many other things you have to worry about.

[Jennifer3141]

You're an adult with a family of your own. Your mother cannot make you do anything you don't want to do or think itsn't best for your family.

 

And surprise! YOU are part of your family too! If you truly are dreading this, do not go. How happy is it for your kids to be around a mom who is dreading the holidays?

 

Tell your mother you are going to try this this year to see how it makes you feel. Who knows? You may find yourself missing the family. It would be hard to be used to having 80 people around and then just be fewer than 10.

 

Maybe you won't miss it and you and your family can have some fun discussions about what traditions you want to have as a family! Starting from scratch would be kind of exciting!! :D

[Trish]

Shoving? And mom won't let you out of it? Well, will she agree to be your bodyguard so no more shoving occurs?

 

Eek.

 

It wouldn't be difficult for me to skip a party for 80 in favor of a small family gathering on your own.

[sweetTN]

Don't go.

 

Life has enough problems without deliberately going to visit them. What it comes down to is they don't like you and you don't like them anymore either.

 

It sucks when people who are supposed to care won't stick up for you. I've been, uh, blessed with relatives like that too. Your mum will just have to deal.

 

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

 

:iagree:

 

Your mother may suggest, request, or ask you to attend, but you get to decide for yourself. You're a grown woman and you have the support of your husband. Forget about what 'the family' expects and do what you feel is right for your family.

[fhjmom]

Thank you so much for all the thoughts and insight! Several posts said what I was feeling so succinctly. It has given me a lot to think about. I know many said that such a large gather would not be enjoyable for them, but that too is part of my struggle - I have always *loved* being part of such a large family. Before last Christmas, these gatherings were truly the highlight of my whole year. I was the one in the family that organized the weekend long reunion in the summer.

 

I could go and handle being superficial and fake for a while if my mom would just let it go at that. There are other "black-sheep" cousins that I suddenly feel much closer to now, LOL! I am trying to honor my mother and I do know it truly hurts her to have this happen in her family. I am trying to not hurt her anymore, but I don't see a way around that and the posts here helped me think all that through.

 

I have tried very hard to keep the conflict away from my kids. I want them to enjoy family.

 

Someone asked how DH reacted - he didn't know what was going on. When aunt first approached me - in a noisy meeting room surrounded by other people - and asked to talk to me, I suggested we go into a back foyer area so I could hear. (A minor thing that really irritated me at the time - she also doesn't understand how bad my hearing is and has never tried to accommodate me there either.) Since the majority of the confrontation happened out of the view of others, no one knew why I came back in and asked DH to get the kids so we could leave. I was walking away and the aunt was following me screaming and calling me names, then when she got in my face (I was trying not to even look at her and she got between DH and me), her son got between us and pushed me. Poor DH was so confused and didn't have a clue about what was happening until we got in the car and I calmed down enough to explain. *Then* he was ready to go back in and give my aunt and her son what for, but I wouldn't let him. Looking back it was all so surreal I still have a hard time believing it actually happened that way, and I was in the middle of it.

 

I think what I have decided to do is tell my mother that we will attend on my terms - we will make a brief appearance, be polite, walk away from confrontation, and not cause any conflict. If she can live with that, okay. If she continues to push me for more, we will no longer attend any family gatherings because it is just not worth it to me for it to cause problems with her.

 

Thanks again!

[UnsinkableKristen]

ETA: Just saw that you posted and I think you're making a good choice.

 

 

You have to stay true to your own needs but here's my bias: I come from a culture where one's own needs are always secondary to the family's. There are times I've embraced it and times I've rebelled against it. Ultimately, I keep coming back around to that place where I can take the best of it and leave the rest of it. For me that meant hard conversations with my mom and sucking it up to attend family functions where I know I'm going to be ignored. It's a beating to my psyche sometimes, but the trade-off is that I know it's all about my aunt - and not about me any more. I know that for every hurtful encounter with her at any given gathering, I'll earn twofold in happier encounters with another relative at the same gathering. As will my kids, who I've tried not to drag into the drama with my aunt by allowing them their own relationship with her and with our extended family (by virtue of showing up to holidays). Not easy. SO worthwhile, though.

:iagree:

 

I know that I'm not saying the same thing as everyone else, but I think it really depends on how you view family. We have a larger family (I'm in the grandchild generation, though, of the family with 15 siblings) and there are always in and outs and fights and arguments. There are people that don't get along and feelings that get hurt. But there is a different dynamic there than smaller families. And I think you have to decide what is important to you.

 

Do you really want to be your very own independent family? Is that something you actually want? Because if it is, then yes, you should stay home and do your own thing. But if what you actually want is your big, messy family to work though this big, messy problem - then you may have to push through a few uncomfortable holidays with your head held high and your "grace and peace" hat on till people realize that you aren't the one perpetuating the problem.

 

Also, I really hope that your Mom continues to feel better after her illness.

[Garga]

As I was reading I was going to say, "Since they haven't asked your side and are judging you, go and TELL them your side and clear the air."

 

But then I got to the part where you've tried that. So now, I don't know what to tell you other than :grouphug:.

 

This is a tough one. Giving up an entire family is a big decision and not one to be made lightly. It will impact you and your children.

 

As a child who had NO family (just my mom and dad. That was IT), I yearned for uncles and aunts and cousins and grandparents. To me, the idea of having family and then just giving it all away breaks my heart. But since I don't have a big family, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. (My "family" lived on the west coast and we were on the east coast--they were alive, but strangers.)

 

As a kid, EVERY Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving was just me and my mom and dad. It was really lonely. I mean--reeeally lonely. I have NO memories of aunts and uncles or cousins. I met my paternal grandparents once and my maternal grandparents about 4 times growing up. They didn't call on holidays and were complete strangers.

 

You are in a tough spot. With my background, I wouldn't lightly give up an entire family, but you know best how hard you've tried to reconcile.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Garga

[StephanieZ]

A few thoughts from someone with messy family issues. . .

 

1) You have a huge family. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Don't allow *some* bad relatives/relationships to sour all those others. . .

 

2) Time heals. A Lot. If you can buy time, it will be less painful. In all likelihood, 5 or 10 years from now, you will even forgive the really hateful behaviors b/c they just won't matter much to you any longer. Really. Ways to buy time from your mom: give as good an excuse as you can for opting out (dh's family? church commitment (volunteer for one!) illness (real or imagined, lol)). . . sth that gives your mom a reason to believe this is temporary will give her a reason not to completely freak out. That will also save face for your mom, who'll be in the position to explain your absence. . .

 

(I do understand your situation. Totally. . . . BTDT! The WORST thing by far was how upset my mom was every holiday!)

 

3) You & your nuclear family come first. . . But, do consider all aspects. All relationships. . . What the future might hold. . . Etc.

 

4) Can you go for a very short period of time? Say 2 hours? Then skedaddle?

 

((hugs))

[Mama2Many4]

If you want to start your own family traditions, then do it. My family still meets for Christmas Eve, but my DH and I carry on our own traditions here at home with OUR family. Do what feels right to you.

[holdoll]

It sounds like the crux of it is that your mom is hanging her happiness on what you do. And that is not only unfair but is impossible to deliver on. You can't change the past or your feelings of hurt or wanting to protect yourself from more hurt and I don't think you need to. You need to either go on your own terms (polite but distant) or don't go and do the holidays with your immediate family. :grouphug:

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Jean, I always love reading your responses. You are the voice of reason.

 

OP, life is too short to struggle through all the crud of family dynamics at holiday time. Sounds like you need to learn how to say "no" to your mom and mean it? I know it's hard, but you are a grown woman with a family of your own. Set some boundaries with her and the rest of the relatives. Then stick by them. People hate change and some will throw fits when you change things. They eventually calm down and, if you stand by your convictions, will respect you for them. Otherwise, they will keep trampling your feelings and who will stop them?

[elfgivas]

Don't go.

 

Life has enough problems without deliberately going to visit them. What it comes down to is they don't like you and you don't like them anymore either.

 

It sucks when people who are supposed to care won't stick up for you. I've been, uh, blessed with relatives like that too. Your mum will just have to deal.

 

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

 

:iagree: wholeheartedly.

[Heatherwith4]

Just don't go.