Is there anything immoral about teaching to the test a bit...?

[NanceXToo]

So, this is a required standardized testing year for my daughter (5th grade).

 

If I buy the test later in the year, receive it, look it over, and see that certain things are on it that we either haven't covered yet or that she is weak on, and then I spent some time teaching that and/or having her practice similar types of problems, for a couple of weeks before she takes the actual test...

 

...is there anything wrong with that?

 

I mean, it's kind of what they do in public school all year long, teach what's going to be on the tests, right?

 

Part of me wants to just let her take it cold to see how she does. And part of me thinks since I HAVE to submit those scores to the school district, I should give her every possible opportunity to do as well as she can, and if that means taking some time to specifically teach/review the things that are on it, that that's what we should do.

 

What do you guys think?

[Stacy in NJ]

No, it's fine. DS13 will be taking the NJASK8 test and the EOC Algebra I test this spring. I intend on doing some prep and practice tests with him.

[QuirkyKapers]

I agree, public schools spend a lot of time teaching to the test. I wouldn't feel bad about looking through it to see if your curriculum or if what you taught basically was similiar to what would be on the test.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Do they offer any practice tests? They do offer that in many cases.

[NanceXToo]

Do they offer any practice tests? They do offer that in many cases.

 

hm, yeah, they do offer a "spectrum test booklet" for $10.00. But it seems sort of like a waste of $10.00? I mean, I can order the regular test which I have to buy anyway, see what's on it, and devise my own practice lessons at no extra charge, so I'm not sure if I see the point to a practice test booklet (or am I missing something? Not being sarcastic lol- I've never seen one of those practice things and I'm not sure if there's a reason why it would be worth the extra $10.00 as opposed to just working with her on my own on whatever areas I feel could use strengthening before taking the test).

[kalanamak]

 

...is there anything wrong with that?

 

 

 

I think it is wrong to blind-side a kid. Making sure the topics have been covered and kiddo is familiar with the format is good and kind.

[texasmama]

I would do it (teach to the test).

[Miss Sherry]

Well, I doubt the results of the test are going to tell you much of anything anyway that you won't already know about your child's academic skills and knowledge. One of the things about these goofy tests is that the results are compared to the test scores of other children who have been "taught to the test". Unless the test you are using is much different than any of the tests we have used. :tongue_smilie:

[Jean in Newcastle]

hm, yeah, they do offer a "spectrum test booklet" for $10.00. But it seems sort of like a waste of $10.00? I mean, I can order the regular test which I have to buy anyway, see what's on it, and devise my own practice lessons at no extra charge, so I'm not sure if I see the point to a practice test booklet (or am I missing something? Not being sarcastic lol- I've never seen one of those practice things and I'm not sure if there's a reason why it would be worth the extra $10.00 as opposed to just working with her on my own on whatever areas I feel could use strengthening before taking the test).

 

The test we take will not let a parent buy it directly. It has to be administered by a test giver that has been trained. They sign an agreement that the test will not be looked at prior to giving it. If your test does not have such a stipulation then I would see nothing wrong with what you're proposing. We use the Spectrum test booklet.

[Miss Sherry]

I think it is wrong to blind-side a kid. Making sure the topics have been covered and kiddo is familiar with the format is good and kind.

:iagree:

[Kates]

I wouldn't say to structure your year around it, but there's nothing wrong with prepping her for what's on the test. She probably already has the basic skills that will be tested...there's no problem with spending a few weeks prior to the test just going over the specific content areas that you're not covering in-depth this year.

 

Not doing so, IMO, would be blind-siding her...and would skew her score to not show what she's capable of skills-wise.

[Sahamamama]

I mean, it's kind of what they do in public school all year long, teach what's going to be on the tests, right?

 

 

I would teach her what is on the test, as well as have her practice the format of the test.

[justasque]

The main advantage to the test prep booklet is to give her a sense of the format of the test. You can probably get one cheaper at Borders/B&N, or even cheaper through Amazon, or see if an IRL friend has one you can look at. I did a quick Google but didn't find anything interesting - there's got to be something out there, though. You might find something at the library. You don't really need test-specific materials, just some multiple-choice type worksheets on similar topics. The main thing is, if you have bright kids, you have to teach them how to "dumb it down" to the level of the test. They need to choose the answer the test-maker thinks is the right answer, which is sometimes based on a simplistic understanding of the material. If you prep, do it with an eye towards making your dd comfortable with the test. At age 10, in our state, that's way more important than how she scores.

Edited October 15, 2010 by askPauline

[Crimson Wife]

It is unethical to look at the specific version of the test you will be giving and prep directly from that.

 

It is ethical to prep from previously released versions of the test and/or test prep booklets since those will not have the exact same questions.

 

It's a fine line but we homeschoolers need to follow the rules if we want to have the privilege of administering standardized tests to our children at home rather than having to pay an outsider to do it.

[Unicorn.]

It is unethical to look at the specific version of the test you will be giving and prep directly from that.

 

It is ethical to prep from previously released versions of the test and/or test prep booklets since those will not have the exact same questions.

 

It's a fine line but we homeschoolers need to follow the rules if we want to have the privilege of administering standardized tests to our children at home rather than having to pay an outsider to do it.

 

:iagree: I think it's cheating. When ps teachers "teach to the test" they are teaching subject matter, they don't know the specific test questions ahead of time. I would spend the $10, and call it money well spent. Besides, letting her go in a little blind, will help you determine if there are any holes that you need to fill.

[Miss Sherry]

:iagree: I think it's cheating. When ps teachers "teach to the test" they are teaching subject matter, they don't know the specific test questions ahead of time. I would spend the $10, and call it money well spent. Besides, letting her go in a little blind, will help you determine if there are any holes that you need to fill.

I was assuming that is what she would do - teach the subject matter, not specific questions.

[Luckymama]

Definitely use a practice test :)

[Osmosis Mom]

:iagree: I think it's cheating. When ps teachers "teach to the test" they are teaching subject matter, they don't know the specific test questions ahead of time. I would spend the $10, and call it money well spent. Besides, letting her go in a little blind, will help you determine if there are any holes that you need to fill.

 

This is not correct. A public school teacher would give the same test year after year and the same tests are used again -at least if it is a CAT-test as we have used over the past 12 years.

 

As a homeschooler then I pay good money for the test (!). I actually just bought the test-booklets which give specific information as to what would be on each test so I make sure the child has covered fx. the specific social studies area. I am not sure I'd teach directly from the test, but in our case with the CAT-tests then it has been the very same test over the years.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Osmosis Mom

[Caroline]

This i snot correct. A public school teacher would give the same test year after year and the same tests are used again -at least if it is a CAT-test as we have used over the past 12 years.

 

As a homeschooler then I pay good money for the test (!). I actually just bought the test-booklets which give specific information as to what would be on each test so I make sure the child has covered fx. the specific social studies area. I am not sure I'd teach directly from the test, but in our case with the CAT-tests then it has been the very same test over the years.

 

You are incorrect about ps standardized tests. We pay a lot of money to have new tests every year.

[Osmosis Mom]

What I meant, Caroline, was that the CAT-tests (which I use and which were used in dd's former school) are not changed year by year. The 1st grade test used 12 years ago is the very same one used now. And that since I am paying for my own homeschooled students' tests, then it makes sense that they have covered the subjects on the test, right?

[Mom0012]

I don't feel as though it's right to look at the actual test that is going to be administered and then teach whatever hasn't been taught. One of the tests I administered to my kids specifically stated that was not allowed.

 

My understanding of what public school teachers do is use tests from prior years that are no longer being administered to practice with their students. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem possible to get copies of those tests as a homeschooler unless you think ahead and order the test just to have it on hand when your child gets to that grade. I'm also not sure how often tests like the IOWA and the Stanford are updated. I've done searches online and old copies of those tests aren't available anywhere that I can find.

 

Lisa

[NanceXToo]

OK I get what some of you are saying, that some people might consider it "cheating" to look at the test and then teach/practice problems that are on that test (although we would not practice the exact problems, I'd devise similar ones. And I wouldn't do it for every single thing on the test, or for the whole year, I'd use looking at it to determine whether they expected her to have covered say a certain math concept, and if we HAVEN'T yet covered it or I know she's really weak at it, we'd spend some practice time reinforcing that concept).

 

I guess I thought public schools DO know, from years of experience, what concepts are on the tests they use and that they make sure they teach it. All year. We don't have that advantage at home, you know what I mean? Or am I way off on that?

 

I'm not worried about her needing practice with the format of the testing or anything, she's taken standardized tests before (including the horrid PSSA's in third grade just before I finally pulled her out of public school to begin homeschooling).

 

This time around, I'd be getting the CAT from Seton.

 

Anyway, lots to consider here, thanks for the replies so far!

[angela in ohio]

It's wrong to look at the test before you give it.

 

No, the teachers don't see the actual test before it is given to the students. The testing companies and schools hire companies to test for that, even. They run statistical analysis on the test results to check for teachers who are peeking.

 

Public schools do not give the same test over and over. If you order the CAT from places that sell to homeschoolers, they just keep using the same test every year. That is why I don't use the CAT.

 

IMHO, things like this give homeschoolers a bad name. It wasn't so long ago that we couldn't give our own dc the Stanford and ITBS, and this is exactly why the testing companies were hesitant. It is a trust issue.

 

There is nothing wrong with general test prep; it's the act of looking at the specific test ahead of time that is wrong.

Edited October 15, 2010 by angela in ohio

[Chris in VA]

It is unethical to look at the specific version of the test you will be giving and prep directly from that.

 

It is ethical to prep from previously released versions of the test and/or test prep booklets since those will not have the exact same questions.

 

It's a fine line but we homeschoolers need to follow the rules if we want to have the privilege of administering standardized tests to our children at home rather than having to pay an outsider to do it.

 

:iagree: 100%

 

I know someone who gives her kids, in advance, the actual ITBS spelling words on the actual test she will be using. Always bothered me a lot.

 

I would be tempted to make up test prep questions that just substitued values and kept the exact wording, situation, etc. I don't find that completely ethical.

 

Wanted to add that I don't get the whole teaching to the test critique of schools, anyway. I don't mean the state tests, like Virginia's SOL or the Texas TAAS test--that, they definitely practically drill. I mean the ITBS or Stanford.

 

I don't have a problem so much with the state tests, because the curriculum comes first, then they are tested on it. The TEST is built around the objectives for the year. OTOH, the Stanford and ITBS-type tests are designed as rather hit or miss summaries of the year they test. Where they get that info, the scope and sequence info, I mean, IDK. It is not specific to a school or a state. I can see attempting to make sure school kids have the skills on the that sort of test, since some may not be in the scope and sequence of that particular school (much like Nance and other homeschoolers) and to do so, they teach to the test.

 

So, does the use of standardized testing of the national sort mean that there really IS a National Curriculum of sorts already in place?

Edited October 15, 2010 by Chris in VA

[kewb]

I see nothing wrong with 10 minutes of test prep a day using practice materials. Teaching them some tools (such as reading the answers first and then reading the paragraph so you know what you are looking for) and having them be familiar with the testing procedure.

 

I gave my kids a standardized this past year and I kind of blindsided them with it. I told them when the tests arrived they would be taking it in a couple of days. Then I told them there was going to be stuff on the test that they may not know because we have not covered it yet and that it was okay. After that I let them know the test was for me. I needed to know what areas I was weak in teaching so we could work on them the following year.

 

Both of my kids did fine. My dh thought their tests scores were not high enough. I told him that these were their scores with zero test prep and if he would like I could teach the test next year and get their scores higher. He declined that offer.

[NanceXToo]

Wanted to add that I don't get the whole teaching to the test critique of schools, anyway. I don't mean the state tests, like Virginia's SOL or the Texas TAAS test--that, they definitely practically drill. I mean the ITBS or Stanford.

 

I don't have a problem so much with the state tests, because the curriculum comes first, then they are tested on it. The TEST is built around the objectives for the year. OTOH, the Stanford and ITBS-type tests are designed as rather hit or miss summaries of the year they test. Where they get that info, the scope and sequence info, I mean, IDK. It is not specific to a school or a state. I can see attempting to make sure school kids have the skills on the that sort of test, since some may not be in the scope and sequence of that particular school (much like Nance and other homeschoolers) and to do so, they teach to the test.

 

Yeah, here where I live they use PSSA's in public schools- Pennsylvania System of School Assessment tests.

 

Interestingly enough, I had to look up "PSSA" to remind myself of what it actually stood for, I couldn't remember.

 

I found a few articles while browsing.

 

One online newspaper article talked about how "Students across Pennsylvania will soon face new state tests that could determine whether they graduate high school.

 

The Keystone Exams, which the state started phasing in this month, will require students starting in the class of 2015 to pass a series of exams that are taken at the end of courses."

 

It goes on to talk about what some of the requirements will be and so on.

 

And then it says... get this:

 

"Starting in the 2010-11 school year, the Department of Education will make a model voluntary curriculum available so that students learn the state-mandated content. Also in the next two years, the state will start offering diagnostic tools and supports to assist struggling students."

 

http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/pennsylvania-students-will-face-new-test-for-high-school-graduation-1.567718

 

Another article about how some private schools here in PA are "saying no" to standardized testing (apparently they are allowed to?!) says:

 

"The private schools that eschew the PSSAs have a number of reasons for doing so, many of which resemble criticisms public school administrators have leveled at the standardized tests.

 

 

They take up too much class time; they're not efficient at measuring student achievement; they encourage educators to teach to the test."

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39494552/ns/local_news-delaware_valley_panj/

 

A website I came across says, in part,:

 

"Testing

PAC-TE is concerned about the recent testing fetish that characterizes American Education. So much energy and attention currently is devoted to meeting what are at times limited and artificial testing standards that students are getting very limited assistance in more important skills such as learning to solve problems, learning to make good decisions, learning to learn, and clarifying and understanding important values. Other important, but untested curriculum areas also are being ignored to "teach for the test(s.)."

 

http://www.briarwoodgroup.com/Pennsylvania_association_of_coll.htm

[Chris in VA]

"Starting in the 2010-11 school year, the Department of Education will make a model voluntary curriculum available so that students learn the state-mandated content.

 

Oh, wow.

[NanceXToo]

I know, right?! LOL. So if it's good for the goose....?!

[EKS]

I think it is unethical.

 

Doing a general review wouldn't be though. And doing a test prep book wouldn't be either.

 

I am grateful that the testing company for the test we use (ITBS) allows us homeschooling parents to administer the test ourselves. Since they are treating us as professionals (of sorts) I think it's important to respond in kind and behave in an ethical manner when administering the test.

Edited October 15, 2010 by EKS

[Tidbits of Learning]

OK I get what some of you are saying, that some people might consider it "cheating" to look at the test and then teach/practice problems that are on that test (although we would not practice the exact problems, I'd devise similar ones. And I wouldn't do it for every single thing on the test, or for the whole year, I'd use looking at it to determine whether they expected her to have covered say a certain math concept, and if we HAVEN'T yet covered it or I know she's really weak at it, we'd spend some practice time reinforcing that concept).

 

I guess I thought public schools DO know, from years of experience, what concepts are on the tests they use and that they make sure they teach it. All year. We don't have that advantage at home, you know what I mean? Or am I way off on that?

 

I'm not worried about her needing practice with the format of the testing or anything, she's taken standardized tests before (including the horrid PSSA's in third grade just before I finally pulled her out of public school to begin homeschooling).

 

This time around, I'd be getting the CAT from Seton.

 

Anyway, lots to consider here, thanks for the replies so far!

 

My advise is to buy the $10 test prep book. It is worth it. It gives them the feel of the test. My dd9 (third grade last year) really benefitted from having practiced with the time limit and such. With Seton, you aren't supposed to look at the book before time to test I believe. It is a good faith promise you make when you purchase tests. The CAT is about the only achievement test that a hs parent can proctor without a degree as well.

Public schools have test prep built into their curriculum now. I am using a Zaner Bloser GUM Grammar book which is meant for public schools and every unit we have a standardized test practice section where it is timed and they fill in a bubble sheet. Houghton Mifflin Math does this as well. Not many homeschool curriculum is set up this way. Christian Liberty Press does have all bubble in tests but it still isn't standardized test prep.

If you haven't used Seton's CAT before, be aware that it only gives you a percentile and a stanine it doesn't give an in-depth your child's language comprehension is 4.1 (fourth grade-1st month). I was a bit dissapointed when I got our result sheet because of the lack of grade level equivalent assessment.

It was a decent achievement test. I was just disappointed by the assessment results that they show. I did not find them as informative as I would have liked.

[NanceXToo]

I think it is unethical.

 

Doing a general review wouldn't be though. And doing a test prep book wouldn't be either.

 

I do understand (and I swear, I'm not trying to be contrary or trying to just get people to agree with me, I'm just sort of responding to things that come up and also sort of "thinking aloud" here so to speak).

 

I guess I'm seeing it like this: In the schools here in PA, they are taking a state-wide test, and the administrators are familiar with the type of content that is going to be on the test because they issue it year after year after year (if not the same exact test content-wise, CERTAINLY a similar test concept-wise), and they are making curriculum decisions based on it, and the teachers are teaching to it and so on.

 

Here at home, I'm using a totally different curriculum that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with what's going to be on those tests.

 

And my kid's scores are going to be compared to everyone else in PA public schools (not nation-wide) whose entire school year has focused on learning the material (or at least the type of material) that will be on those tests.

 

And I have no idea if or how my superintendent (who already thinks he can make up his own rules as he goes along in regard to what is required of me as a homeschooler and has more than once asked for things he had no right to ask for) is going to pick apart our test scores. But he'll certainly be examining them and making his little judgments.

 

The schools are familiar with the type of material that will be on that test for 5th grade. And they make sure they cover it with their students.

 

I am not familiar with the type of material that will be on a 5th grade test. So I have no chance to make sure I cover it with my student, unless I've seen the test first.

 

So I guess it just doesn't seem fair to me, and it is a little bit nerve-wracking, having to issue some pointless standardized test and then submit it to a not particularly homeschool friendly superintendent for his perusal.

 

But if the test prep booklet is basically going to accomplish the same thing- pose similar types of problems, and that would not be "cheating" then I guess I could do that.

 

DO the CAT test practice booklets pose similar types of problems to what will be in the actual test? Or are they more for formatting? I wish I knew!

Edited October 15, 2010 by NanceXToo

[Ester Maria]

It is unethical to look at the specific version of the test you will be giving and prep directly from that.

 

It is ethical to prep from previously released versions of the test and/or test prep booklets since those will not have the exact same questions.

I agree with this position.

[DarlaS]

So, this is a required standardized testing year for my daughter (5th grade).

 

If I buy the test later in the year, receive it, look it over, and see that certain things are on it that we either haven't covered yet or that she is weak on, and then I spent some time teaching that and/or having her practice similar types of problems, for a couple of weeks before she takes the actual test...

 

...is there anything wrong with that?

 

I mean, it's kind of what they do in public school all year long, teach what's going to be on the tests, right?

 

Part of me wants to just let her take it cold to see how she does. And part of me thinks since I HAVE to submit those scores to the school district, I should give her every possible opportunity to do as well as she can, and if that means taking some time to specifically teach/review the things that are on it, that that's what we should do.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Here's another idea: Can you buy two copies and have her take the test twice; first for a diagnostic tool, then again later (months later if possible) for official scores? Maybe to avoid some idea that it might be cheating, the first test could be last year's version.

[angela in ohio]

The state teaching to the test could be a thread of its own. :001_smile: That is a different issue than actually looking at the specific test to be given, which will (and has) get a teacher fired. That is not common practice.

 

The inside scoop on "teaching to the test": Schools have been, on average, doing a poor job of teaching basic skills for many years. We all know that. Many teachers are poorly trained in teaching reading and math by the teacher colleges. Every new theory has been forced on the schools. Kids aren't learning. The only way the state departments of ed can work around the current structure is to impose to-down policies. The idea is precisely to get the schools to teach to the test. It's what every child should have been taught all along, the basic skills that children should acquire at a minimum, but fell by the wayside amid creative projects and lighter subjects that were easier for teachers to teach. It's also a way for the state to check up on schools that let many of their students (often the racial or socioeconomic minority) down. The fact that schools are having to change their curriculum so that students can do basic math and reading comprehension tasks on state tests should tell us all something about the sorry state they are in.

 

Schools are failing at-risk kids (and even kids who aren't at-risk.) The state tests are the only way right now to work on that. It's not the best model, but it's what they can do.

 

Private schools should opt out of the tests. They generally are already doing a good job of teaching basic skills. They don't need the state tests, because they already have accountability (paying parents.)

 

Of course PAC-TE is against this. They want to spend time "clarifying and understanding important values" rather than teaching students to read. They obviously haven't been teaching students how to problem solve and learn to learn up this point. :001_huh:

[Chris in VA]

Nance, you know what I'd do? I'd call the school your kids would ordinarily go to, and tell them you are a homeschooler who would be assigned to that school. Ask if they have copies of the previous state tests posted on Blackboard (or ask if the parents have access to those copies somewhere else). See if you can get access, print them off, and use them for more specific test prep. You can give your child those tests, see how they do, remediate a bit if needed, and then give them the "real" test. I don't have a problem with that at all. On a personal note, I'd feel bad if prepping took the place of the fun stuff that we planned, but I wouldn't worry about slipping in 30 minutes of practice a couple of weeks before the test, or something like that.

 

I TOTALLY get what you are saying now--your scope and sequence is not the same, and you want your kids to have that info. It comes up around here with our history--no ps kid is doing Ancients in first grade, for example, and so the social studies part of the tests is totally different. The same can happen in science.

 

I also agree with the PP that many of the state tests just test what a kids "should" know, anyway--really basic skills that are most likely covered, like math facts and basic English. In those particular areas, you probably have nothing to worry about.

 

Wanted to add that, here in VA, the option we use for homeschooling allows us to take a standardized, national test (we do the ITBS) at the end of the year. We only have to score above the 25th percentile in order to keep homeschooling, and, if we do score below, we still have a whole year to bring it up to that percentile, so the impact is minimal.

 

What is the impact on your ability to keep homeschooling your kids if they score poorly? I really couldn't give a flying flip if someone thinks my kids are "dumb" if they did score poorly. It would have absolutely no bearing on their education, their college acceptance, etc. Are you uncomfortable with the idea of the Super's disdain or something? To that I say, WHO CARES. You know what's best for your kids.

The scores for elementary and JR Hi don't follow them anywhere.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Chris in VA

[Mejane]

:iagree: I think it's cheating. When ps teachers "teach to the test" they are teaching subject matter, they don't know the specific test questions ahead of time.

 

Strongly disagree here. At least in our district, the questions taught are almost exactly the same as those that show up on the test. The teachers do not teach the subject matter; they teach the test. When we praised my then-ps'd 10yo daughter for her exceptionally high score, she rolled her eyes and told us "I don't know how to do that stuff; they give us the answers. I'm just a good memorizer." :glare:

Edited October 15, 2010 by Mejane

[Farrar]

When people talk about how "teaching to the test" is bad, I feel like a huge component to that is that instead of spending time learning content, kids are practicing the same type of questions over and over so they can get better at gaming out answers instead of actually *knowing* the answer. I don't find it unethical, just pathetic.

 

Also, I don't think it's wrong to properly prepare for a good, well-constructed test. That's just sensible. I think part of the problem that people mean when they talk about "teaching to the test" is that some of the tests the school districts use aren't quality measures of student learning, making all that preparation a waste of time for real learning since it doesn't reflect actual skills or essential knowledge.

[Krista in LA]

It is unethical to look at the specific version of the test you will be giving and prep directly from that.

 

It is ethical to prep from previously released versions of the test and/or test prep booklets since those will not have the exact same questions.

 

It's a fine line but we homeschoolers need to follow the rules if we want to have the privilege of administering standardized tests to our children at home rather than having to pay an outsider to do it.

 

:iagree:

[Gwenhwyfar]

if my kids were being FORCED to take standardized tests (which i don't believe in anyway) and there was a possibility that our homeschooling could be THREATENED if they didn't achieve a certain score - heck yeah i'd get the test and find out what was on it. (since it sounds like you can just order these?)

[La Condessa]

If I buy the test later in the year, receive it, look it over, and see that certain things are on it that we either haven't covered yet or that she is weak on, and then I spent some time teaching that and/or having her practice similar types of problems, for a couple of weeks before she takes the actual test... is there anything wrong with that?

 

I mean, it's kind of what they do in public school all year long, teach what's going to be on the tests, right?

 

 

Yes, there is something wrong with that. The 'teaching to the test' that is done in schools is where the teachers specifically teach the kinds of problems that generally appear on the tests. They do not read the actual test they are going to issue to the students and then teach to those problems. That is dishonest.

 

That would not be the same thing, though, as looking up what areas are covered on the standardized tests and making sure to go over those with your daughter.

[TravelingChris]

There are two different issues here. One is making sure your curriculum coincides with the test. For example, with the Iowa test, it decides that year X is American History year but your year x was Ancient History. I don't see anything wrong with taking a week and going over American History. That is very different from teaching the spelling words on the test or going over specific questions or almost the same specific question.

[EKS]

There are two different issues here. One is making sure your curriculum coincides with the test. For example, with the Iowa test, it decides that year X is American History year but your year x was Ancient History. I don't see anything wrong with taking a week and going over American History. That is very different from teaching the spelling words on the test or going over specific questions or almost the same specific question.

 

I have given the ITBS for grades 1-10 and have never found the year that ancient history was covered. Must be in either K or 11/12.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you don't want to pay the $10 for the practice test booklets, all you have to do is to sit down for 20 min. in Barnes and Noble. Look through the practice book at the skills taught in each subject area. If, for example, the math has decimals and you haven't done decimals yet, then jot that down on your notepad. Or if Social studies has stuff on the branches of govt. do the same. Of course there are some ethical considerations for doing that and not spending the money to buy the book.

[Amy loves Bud]

It is unethical to look at the specific version of the test you will be giving and prep directly from that.

 

It is ethical to prep from previously released versions of the test and/or test prep booklets since those will not have the exact same questions.

 

It's a fine line but we homeschoolers need to follow the rules if we want to have the privilege of administering standardized tests to our children at home rather than having to pay an outsider to do it.

 

This is exactly how I feel about it.

[justasque]

Nance, you know what I'd do? I'd call the school your kids would ordinarily go to, and tell them you are a homeschooler who would be assigned to that school. Ask if they have copies of the previous state tests posted on Blackboard (or ask if the parents have access to those copies somewhere else). See if you can get access, print them off, and use them for more specific test prep.

 

It's most likely that the test Nance chooses is not the same test the school kids will be taking. Although in PA we have the option of using the school test, generally home educators choose a different one that is privately given and takes much less time.

 

Spectrum test prep books will give a general sense of standardized testing, but are generally not test-specific.

 

Nance's dd does not have to meet a minimum score, though there can be some unpleasantness (or worse) if the superintendent believes she is not making progress in her home education program based on her test scores (and portfolio and evaluator's report).

 

Nance, if you have ethical concerns, another option is to give your dd the test, have it scored, and if you don't like the scores, toss the first set of results and test again. If your dd is an avid reader and is doing more-or-less grade-level math, you most likely have nothing to worry about, whether you prep or not.

 

Have you tried Googling test prep worksheets? I didn't get far with it, but I'm guessing there are school districts out there who have test prep stuff on their web sites for their own kids to use.

[Tidbits of Learning]

You can almost always find older editions of your state test on the board of education site for your state. In my opinion though, by the time you print a 30-60 page practice test you have used enough ink and paper and time to justify buying the test prep book.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: And a number of the proctor agreements require you to follow strict testing procedures.

 

Teaching your student how to take the test is important as well as dealing with not knowing everything on it. It's just one measure and a tool for teachers and parents to see what they need to learn. Read each question, fill in the bubble, and don't stress over the time or ones you miss. It's just a test.

 

It is unethical to look at the specific version of the test you will be giving and prep directly from that.

 

It is ethical to prep from previously released versions of the test and/or test prep booklets since those will not have the exact same questions.

 

It's a fine line but we homeschoolers need to follow the rules if we want to have the privilege of administering standardized tests to our children at home rather than having to pay an outsider to do it.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Tammyla

[rafiki]

.

[NanceXToo]

Are you uncomfortable with the idea of the Super's disdain or something? To that I say, WHO CARES. You know what's best for your kids.

 

No, it's not that, it's more that I'm a little worried that if he thinks her results should have shown something different, that he might use that (even if he is not supposed to) to start giving me a hard time about other things- trying to demand more out of the portfolios, "watching" our portfolios more closely, asking for more things he's not necessarily entitled to have and so on.

 

On at least two different occasions so far he's asked me for things that he has no business asking for pursuant to PA home ed. law.

 

It's not that I don't think my daughter is smart. It's not that I don't think she'll do at least pretty well on testing (she took a 4th grade CAT test 'just for fun' and scored right where she was supposed to, but I didn't have to submit those scores).

 

It's that I don't know what will be on the 5th grade test and as it is a required testing year, if there's anything on it that we haven't yet introduced, I want to know about it, so she doesn't get unfairly judged (and I don't get unfairly monitored by the superintendent) on something that's no fault of her own but just pertains to us using a different curriculum that might not introduce the same things at the same time or in the same way or whatever.

 

If we are learning A, B and C and then she gets the test and they care more about D and E and I'm going oh man, we didn't cover those yet while the public school has been focusing on D and E all year because they knew D and E would be on the test, that's going to unnecessarily stress my daughter out when she gets the test (maybe) and be something I don't necessarily want the Superintendent judging us for.

 

But if I get the test beforehand and go "Okay, they're going to ask her about D. I wasn't going to teach her that til next year, but we may as well work on it somewhat now"- that's where my thought process lies in all of this.

 

P.S. and by the same token, I don't want to start doing D, E, F, G and H sooner than I otherwise might have just in case some or all of those are on the test (without actually knowing that to be true)- because I don't want to spend more time worrying about standardized test prep than necessary, as I DEFINITELY don't want the focus of my child's education to be about test scores.

 

Anyway, it's been interesting hearing all of the responses and thought processes and there have been some good ideas and things to consider here, so thanks for all of the replies!

[Tidbits of Learning]

It depends on the purpose of your testing. I do not do "test prep" as I like to see where my kids are based upon the curriculum we've used. Where their may be gaps, their weaker areas, strengths, etc. We also have to send our scores to the local district.

 

:iagree:Testing last year helped me to see our math curriculum wasn't preparing them for the math computation part of the test. They understood math concepts, but didn't have their facts down. It made a huge difference in their scores.

I think you can either fear the test or you can learn from the test. It makes more sense to get an accurate scoring and see where your curriculum may leave gaps and fill in those gaps after you get your results than to try and prep for the exact test when you are just guessing at what your child may or may not have difficulty with on the test.