When to slow down and when to push...now that's the million-dollar question. The answer that I've come to is that you just plain won't spend 4 years in each. Quite frankly, your child is probably through much of the grammar stage already - they'll pick up the little details WHILE analyzing the application of them. Still do teach them - if she doesn't know what a linking verb is, or how to state a fraction, teach it to them - but don't dwell on them. Once they've got it, go back into teaching at their level. While many elementary-age kids enjoy memorizing random facts, gifted kids tend to shut down at the thought of doing so. To them, it's a useless exercise. Instead, they often need application and analysis, even in elementary...so, it's fine to give it to them. You'll be able to tell when you're pushing too hard and when you're not challenging enough, and you'll kind of end up charting your own path. And that's perfectly ok. WTM is not a manual for teaching a gifted kid, but it is a good tool. There are a lot of great ideas and tips you'll be able to pick up from it, but you'll need to be willing to go your own way when necessary.

Actually, she can. It's not common, but highly advanced kids develop logical and abstract thinking skills years before we think they can. My son was there around age 5, though I didn't understand the levels at the time.

Honestly, I stick with the history time periods, science areas, etc., but not with the grammar/dialectic/rhetoric stages. They just don't apply to highly/exceptionally/profoundly gifted kids. For example, when my child asked me (at age 2, no less), "Who's God and why can't I see him?" I knew I was in trouble ;) At age 6, when he was doing 8-function math problems (with 4+ digit numbers) in his head and taught himself subtraction through algebra, I realized that we weren't in Kansas anymore. And at age 7, when we were studying mummification and he blurted out, "Well, that's stupid - they're dead!!!" we went through the varying religious viewpoints of the region and compared them to Judaism and Christianity...I gave up trying to teach him in grammar-school terms. :D Highly advanced kids often develop abstract thinking skills much earlier than "normal" kids - therefore, the grammar/dialectic/rhetoric age ranges don't apply in the same way. My 13yo is on track with the rotation, but he's been in the rhetoric stage for at least two years. We analyze the literature, he writes full papers, he does analysis and reaction projects, he does the full lab reports, he does the higher math. We talk about not only the who, what, how, and why, but the "so what?" We go through not only the info, but the worldview behind it. There are two schools of thought - compact the info into fewer years, or expand the standards to let them dig deeper in the same amount of time. I tend to go with the 2nd ;) I've found that letting my son dig until he's satisfied, rather than just covering the material and moving on at the speed of light (which is what doing "normal" school feels like at times), is a better option for him. He'll be working on several AP and CLEP level classes for the next few years, and has decided to spend what would normally be his jr. and sr. year working on a distance degree. He'll still enter college as an on-campus student around age 18, but if all goes according to his plan, he'll enter as a junior. Hope that helps?

I teach LfC A-C and Latin Alive in our co op; LfC is good for middle school Latin, but it's not in-depth enough to count for high school credit. Latin Alive is a good, solid program, definitely meaty enough for credit. I would suggest you transcript it as Latin I (otherwise, as another poster said, it looks as though you're doing AP Latin, which it's not) and go from there. Latin Alive already has the first two volumes out and should release LA III sometime in the next year or so. Hope that helps!

I agree - there's much more to LoF than these two books show. Honestly, my 13yo is doing them as review right now, and finished Fractions in 4 days...and is looking to do Decimals & Percents in about a week or so. He went through two other elem/middle school math currics that covered fractions, decimals, percents, and other concepts pretty adequately...but he didn't retain a darn thing. He chose to do these two books as review before starting LoF Advanced Algebra, and all of the info finally makes sense to him. LoF, in my opinion, is comprehensive enough for a stand-alone curric - it just depends on the learning style of your student. Like any curric, some love it and others hate it. Some do fine with it as a supplement, while for others, it's exactly what they need as a full program. :)

We aren't at Chem yet, but ds13 is using it for ICP (Integrated Chem & Physics) right now and will do Bio and ClepPrep Bio through DIVE next year. He's found the material challenging, but the program easy to work with (i.e., user friendly but keeps him on his toes). He is a science kid, so he likes all the info Dr. Shorman explains. His voice is soft, but that's not a big deal - it actually helps him concentrate on what's on the screen. I haven't used the Apologia DVDs, but we really like the DIVE ones.

Have you looked at the different programs from Stobaugh? They're comprehensive, yet written to the student. They do require discussion and grading/editing by the parent, but are pretty self-inclusive.

I think it depends. Are they a magic cure-all to expand your immune system and ward off disease? Personally, I don't think so ;) However, they can really help people with some autoimmune disorders, especially those that affect the GI tract. My son and I are both celiac, and they help us a lot. I know others who take them (who don't have health or digestive issues) and they really can't see much difference.

It may sound weird, but many of my students who are dyslexic (including 13yo ds) have said that Latin made the most sense to them. Dyslexic kids are generally very good at picking up on patterns - better than most - and as Latin is almost completely pattern-based, it "clicks". Many of my dyslexic students have told me that English makes much more sense after taking Latin (since the patterns are easier to discern) and that math became easier as well (since the analytical pathways were there). Just my 2 cents :)

I believe it's $240 - it pays for itself, even full price, within about 4-6 mos. With the first year of membership, you get around $4-500 worth of units, along with all the other goodies :) And, whenever they increase the benefits of membership (which has happened 2-3 times since I bought the lifetime 3 years ago), you get all the goodies grandfathered in. :D No extra charges, no renewals, just access to tons of great stuff.

Their quality is top-notch - I've been using them for 6-7 years now, no complaints. Their customer service is also excellent. For a Super Membership, normal price is $75/year; this gives you 26 free lapbooks (13 lower level, 13 corresponding upper level), 15% off ebooks all year long, access to tons of freebies, special sales for members only, and more. They have two main Yahoo groups...http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lapbooking/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HandsofaChildTalk/ Everything I've bought from them has been WELL worth it...I'm a Lifetime Super Member, which paid for itself within months, and I've used their units either as a main curric or supplement from elementary through (i.e., currently) high school. Hope that helps!

I really wouldn't touch it under 6th grade or so...the stories are very indepth, there are mature themes, and most kids under that age just aren't terribly interested. I would say to stick with things like D'Aulaire's myth books - there's enough there to keep anyone, of any age, interested :) It wasn't written for young children - it was written for adults (which, at that time, included teens). I'd even go with an adapted story (Black Ships Before Troy, for example) for logic stage - save the original for rhetoric. Skip it altogether for grammar.

With gifted kids, perfectionism tends to run rampant...meaning, something is done right the first time, or you've failed. With young gifted kids, this can be especially difficult - they only know the feelings of perfection and failure, rather than being able to determine what's behind them. Yes, her brain needs to be exercised...but it sounds like there's a lot more behind her outburst. That doesn't sound like laziness, it sounds like frustration. In the hands of a perfectionist, ongoing frustration can pretty much cripple the learning process. I had to deal with this with my son when he was younger, and it wasn't an easy process. It took a lot of patience and understanding, as well as knowing how far to push him and when to let up. I would bet just about anything that part of her wants to be challenged, but another part of her just can't process the possibility of failing at something. Hence, she's scared to try something tht doesn't come easily to her. If you recognize the fear and help her work through it (even when it seems silly), she'll come out a lot stronger for it in years to come. If you crack the whip and make her do it no matter what, because it looks like laziness, you'll have a lot to deal with down the line. Not saying to not have her do the work, just to temper it with understanding for where her outburst is coming from. I'm writing this because it's what I wish someone had told me several years ago...ask me how I know all this. ;)

I don't censor nonfiction...if ds is interested, he reads it. We then discuss it, I answer any questions he has. He's pretty open with them, I know exactly what he's reading, and he knows I'll be upfront with my answers. If he's not interested in knowing...well, he doesn't pick up the book. ;) Fiction, I do censor, but it's because he literally picks up on everything - and hyperperceives what's going on with a character, a situation, everything. He's PG, so there are a lot of things that he comprehends but doesn't have the maturity to deal with. If I feel a book might be too much for him to handle, I'll let him know it wouldn't be a good idea for him to read it right now. He trusts my judgement.

My 13yo doesn't have formal chores, I've tried but I'm honestly not structured enough to keep them going... However, he does what is needed to keep the household running, as it needs to be done - the same as dh and I do. He sweeps, vacuums, helps with laundry, does dishes, cooks, brings in groceries, walks the dog, puts away his stuff, etc. whenever he needs to - and whenever he's asked to, same as us. We don't have specific days or times set up for these things, and they're not assigned to anyone in particular, we just plain do them. There are times when our schedule gets crazy and these lag behind, but for the most part, we just all work together to get it done. He does school 6-7 hours daily (on average), as well as 6-10 hours per week on Scouts, a few hours a week for karate, and currently, a community theater play. We just work the other stuff in wherever it fits.

My faves have been from Hands of a Child...there are about 400 to choose from, all really well done. Structured, but flexible enough to fit just about any schedule. :) www.handsofachild.com

I totally agree - many European languages are difficult at best without a solid understanding of grammar. English, on the other hand, is a royal pain in the backside because it's such a conglomeration of languages that the patterns and rules are fairly vague...and a lot of English-speaking kids (at least in America, I can't speak for elsewhere) honestly don't care about learning grammar, since they can at least speak and read easily without it. Learning the grammar in order to learn Latin sets them up well for both learning the basis of English and the basis of many other languages. Since the OP was talking about English, I kept my comments there :) You make a great point though!

I personally can't stand the MP Latin...I actually had to rewrite it in order to teach it. At the time, it was one of the only programs out there, so I didn't have a whole lot of choice. I have several friends who don't have a Latin or languages background who found it difficult to work with. Latin Alive is from Classical Academic Press, it's extremely user friendly and easy to understand. It's challenging, but you can take it at your own pace, and there are good DVD classes available for it. (Several of my former high school level students are actually a bit jealous that my current students are using it...they took Latin before Latin Alive was written, and like it a lot better than what they used.)

Does he write better in cursive than he does with printing? If so, honestly, I'd let him write in cursive for a while. It may make more sense to him somehow - maybe the curve of the letters, or the fact that they all flow together? I wouldn't worry too much about the formation of the letters...some kids just learn them differently. I would make sure they're legible - go over the "guides" - but other than that I wouldn't stress too much about it. If it's dyslexia, he'll have problems actually remembering what the letters are supposed to look like - to the point that he can't get a word from his head to his pencil. He'll likely be able to spell it with magnets or orally, but not be able to write it. It's a perception glitch - sort of like dyslexia, but with handwriting. It really sounds like he's just a bit "out of the box" when it comes to handwriting. It's really nothing to worry about, I'd just say to be patient with him and praise the heck out of whatever he does right. Give gentle correction to keep his confidence up, and you'll likely see him improve. It doesn't come easily to everyone...but that's ok :)

I would also say to work with Latin - Latin Alive would be a good one to use. The grammar with Latin is extremely close to English (it's what our grammar is largely based on), but it's easier to retain because he'll actually be using it for something he doesn't already "know". Grammar is often difficult in you native tongue because you don't actually "need" to learn it in order to speak, read, or write. It's hard to analyze something that you've already learned intuitively. When you apply it to a foreign language, it suddenly becomes more clear. Because Latin is so methodical and pattern-based, it's often the easiest one to start with. I teach Latin on both middle- and high-school levels, and this is what I've seen time and again...that kids with no (or very little) prior grammar understanding suddenly "get it" - because they have a reason to.

Have you tried the Hands of a Child units? You can pick and choose which ones you want to use, they're easy to adapt to youngers, and pretty much all of them come with terrific reading and link lists. They also come with schedules and answer keys (they're now written into the units, for the most part), so they're user friendly. They're also reusable when you get to that part of the history cycle once more.

There's overlap in the actual material - i.e., they both present the same fallacies - but they're presented in completely different ways. I'm using Fallacy Detective to introduce the fallacies and give my son a bit of experience in working with them, after which we'll go through them indepth with the CAP materials. FD is very conversational and light - it's written by teenage boys - while the CAP materials go much more in-depth. Both are great, just different approaches. Hope that helps :)

Yep, LLATL and Writing Strands. Both were epic fails. The Latin stuff from Memoria Press also...I'm a Latin teacher (i.e., I really enjoy Latin), and all the materials practically made my eyes roll back in my head. My son actually cried when I told him he had to listen to the CD - offered to do extra work in return for not having to listen to her.

I agree - Tell Me More is excellent. It's also 40% off right now at https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1091 :)

My son had this...it would take at least 6-9 mos. for each of his teeth to grow in. By the time he was 10, he'd only lost 5-6 and grown in 3. Shortly before he turned 11, he was diagnosed with celiac, which had manifested over 5 years before but no one knew. It was keeping him from absorbing the necessary nutrients to go through the process of growing teeth to the point that they would come in. After we got his diet worked out, he started growing teeth like crazy - literally, they would loosen and fall out within a day or two, and would start growing in immediately. He lost and grew in 11 teeth in less than a year. (Oy!) Anyway - it's something I wouldn't have even thought of, but it turned out it was all dietary. If she shows any other signs of dietary reactions (slow growth, lack of focus at random times, muscle or skin pains that are unexplained, abdominal upset, weak enamel), you might want to check that out. I'm not saying it's because of that, but I can honestly say I wish I'd thought to ask sooner, like when I was wondering why he didn't grow teeth...it would have saved him a lot of medical trouble.