How Do You Respond...

[kalphs]

Over the past year Dh and I have received criticism from individuals (within and outside the homeschooling community) for providing a "classical education" for Dd.

These individuals feel it is "wrong" to expose Dd to great works of literature, poetry, history, science, math, foreign language, famous artists/composers. It is "bad" to teach Dd logic and critical thinking skills.

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

Dh and I stand firm in our decision in how to home educate our child.

We want Dd to thrive as the curious, intelligent individual she was created to be.

We want Dd to become a productive member of society not just merely a consumer.

So out of curiosity how would you respond to these individuals remarks?

Has anyone else out there in WTM Forums Land dealt with this type of situation?

Edited October 2, 2010 by kalphs

[livingnlearning]

A brief head shake no and change of subject should work. If not, rethink your assertiveness and/or your reason for being around these folks. If you haven't asked for their opinion you don't have to listen to it.

[Wish]

I've learned to only listen to people's opinions about me if they know me or my family very well. Otherwise, they're probably not worth listening to, since they don't know you all that well anyway, right?

 

As far as things like critical thinking, you'd be a bad teacher to NOT teach your children that. If people talk to you about it, just change the subject or ignore them; it's obviously horrible advice, so why even think about taking it?

[sparrow]

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

 

 

 

Seriously?

 

 

That would just get one of my rarely used, "All righty then" responses and yeah, pass the bean dip.

Edited October 2, 2010 by sparrow

[Heatherwith4]

Google 'pass the bean dip.' There's an article written by Joanne, (one of the board members) regarding what to do/say when people won't mind their own business.

 

ETA: I'm not sure where I got the idea that Joanne wrote this. Maybe someone else will know if I'm right about that or not. :)

Edited October 2, 2010 by heatherwith3

[Pink Fairy]

I don't invite people to critique my homeschool methods, and no one I know has been rude enough to offer an unrequested opinion. I think you should deal with it the way you do anytime someone exhibits bad manners, and don't defend yourself. You can say "Dh and I are happy with what we are doing. So how is so-and-so doing these days?/Did you see the big sale they are having at Macy's?/My cousin is getting married in Hawaii, have you ever been there?/etc."

[Mejane]

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

 

 

"Yes, wouldn't it be just awful if she grew up with the ability to think for herself?"... with the biggest eye roll I could manage.

[kalphs]

Seriously?

 

 

That would just get one of my rarely used, "All righty then" responses and yeah, pass the bean dip.

Yes.

You sound like my Dh. :D

[kalphs]

Google 'pass the bean dip.' There's an article written by Joanne, (one of the board members) regarding what to do/say when people won't mind their own business.

How can I locate the article to read?

[Elizabeth in MN]

I would have problems not laughing my way into an asthma attack. God gave us brains in order to use them, IMO.

[amey311]

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

 

 

I'm agnostic, so if someone said this to me I'd probably say "woohoo!" :lol:

 

If you don't think that's an acceptable response, the old standby "Okay. I'll give that some thought" or "Thanks for letting me know your opinion" might work. Or not.

 

Honestly, the people on this board clearly don't think that a Classical Education is going to lead their children down a path of sin and degradation, and there are many actively practicing religious members. So, I think it's safe to say that learning logic doesn't make you grow into a horrible sinner. There were some great religious people who had classical educations (often before it was "Classical" ;) ). One might argue that learning logic will help your daughter be a stronger defender of her faith. Being well read will allow her to develop the vocabulary necessary to be a highly functioning member of society and to grow to be an excellent witness.

 

And at the end of the day - those people aren't living in your house, with your daughter, so poo on them!

[Heatherwith4]

How can I locate the article to read?

Here ya go:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?p=58

[kalphs]

I would have problems not laughing my way into an asthma attack. God gave us brains in order to use them, IMO.

:iagree:

[mcconnellboys]

I think I'd have to respond to the first person who said this by stating that I was flabberghasted, as indeed I would be. I believe that after I finished with them word would get round and no one else would ask me such a ridiculous thing nor make comments that might elicit my wrath.....

[TechWife]

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking...

So out of curiosity how would you respond to these individuals remarks?

Has anyone else out there in WTM Forums Land dealt with this type of situation?

 

I think the 12 disciples had to be free thinkers in order to follow Jesus, bucking the system of their day, don't you?

 

Paul worked extensively with the educated people he came in contact with. If we can't communicate with people who don' agree with us, then we are missing out on an opportunity to both learn and teach.

 

How would I respond? Honestly, I think my mouth would drop open and I would shake my head in disbelief. Unless they were willing to sit down with me and learn more about how I am teaching and not how they think I am teaching, the topic would be off limits from there on out. After all, I'd never pick apart how they are educating their children.

[regentrude]

I have never had a comment like this. But it helps that our friends and acquaintances also value the ability to be critical thinkers.

[DesertDweller]

I would stop discussing it with them.

 

If that didn't work, my response would be to directly tell them to MYOB. I don't tell people how to run their lives. I sure don't expect someone to tell me how to run mine. I have no patience for people telling me what they think I should or shouldn't be doing.

[Jean in Newcastle]

There is a subset of Christians who are suspicious of education. Usually it does no good to try to convince them otherwise but I've told people in that camp that "God is not afraid of being questioned." (There are passages which illustrate this but I'm too lazy to look them up right now.) I've also told them that God wants us to love Him with our whole heart and mind. It does well to cultivate our mind so that we can do so.

 

I think the fear behind this (and it is motivated by fear) is that many people who go into higher education do leave their faith. The problem is not that they've been introduced to higher thinking but that they haven't been taught how to think through things so that when they are introduced to different worldviews and opinions, they are easily swayed by them instead of looking at them seriously in view of what the Bible says.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'd question how free thinking v. group think leads to sin and degradation.

[Aubrey]

There is a subset of Christians who are suspicious of education. Usually it does no good to try to convince them otherwise but I've told people in that camp that "God is not afraid of being questioned." (There are passages which illustrate this but I'm too lazy to look them up right now.) I've also told them that God wants us to love Him with our whole heart and mind. It does well to cultivate our mind so that we can do so.

 

I think the fear behind this (and it is motivated by fear) is that many people who go into higher education do leave their faith. The problem is not that they've been introduced to higher thinking but that they haven't been taught how to think through things so that when they are introduced to different worldviews and opinions, they are easily swayed by them instead of looking at them seriously in view of what the Bible says.

 

:iagree:

 

In the end, I consider these types of people just too toxic to be around. And I don't think I've ever actually said that about anybody. It's probably just that I've had a particularly large dose of these people in my life & have come to a point that I don't want to put up w/ it any more.

 

Find a new circle.

[Starr]

I was thinking along Aubrey's line. If most of the people you are around think this way are they who you want your daughter raised with?

[Heatherwith4]

There is a subset of Christians who are suspicious of education. Usually it does no good to try to convince them otherwise but I've told people in that camp that "God is not afraid of being questioned." (There are passages which illustrate this but I'm too lazy to look them up right now.) I've also told them that God wants us to love Him with our whole heart and mind. It does well to cultivate our mind so that we can do so.

 

I think the fear behind this (and it is motivated by fear) is that many people who go into higher education do leave their faith. The problem is not that they've been introduced to higher thinking but that they haven't been taught how to think through things so that when they are introduced to different worldviews and opinions, they are easily swayed by them instead of looking at them seriously in view of what the Bible says.

:iagree:

[6packofun]

Is this during a conversation started by them or you and do you usually include everything you said here? Sometimes people don't want or need THAT much info, honestly, and it scares the pants off of them for many different reasons. When people ask about our home school, I let them lead the discussion, don't offer too much and try to feel out the conversation before providing our views on education.

 

If the opinions you mentioned here were given to me, I'd pretty much blow it off. Something like, "Huh. Well I'm thankful for the freedom we all have to give and receive the educations WE value. Nice talking to you." Adios! lol

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I wouldn't respond. People who think like that are too small minded to understand my response anyway and it would seem like a waste of my time. I've run into a lot of those and they are always right. Period. No sense in wasting my energy trying to convince them otherwise.

[SonshineLearner]

I might be curious to ask them what philosophy of education the adhere to... and how they obtain that for their children. Then, as soon as they answer... or perhaps stumble... I'd ask them about something else.... People usually love to either try to make you feel stupid... or talk about themselves :)

[angela in ohio]

Over the past year Dh and I have received criticism from individuals (within and outside the homeschooling community) for providing a "classical education" for Dd.

These individuals feel it is "wrong" to expose Dd to great works of literature, poetry, history, science, math, foreign language, famous artists/composers. It is "bad" to teach Dd logic and critical thinking skills.

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

Dh and I stand firm in our decision in how to home educate our child.

We want Dd to thrive as the curious, intelligent individual she was created to be.

We want Dd to become a productive member of society not just merely a consumer.

So out of curiosity how would you respond to these individuals remarks?

Has anyone else out there in WTM Forums Land dealt with this type of situation?

 

Over and over. People tell me they want their child to be Godly instead of educated. :001_huh:

 

Jean said it so well. :001_smile:

[angela in ohio]

I wouldn't respond. People who think like that are too small minded to understand my response anyway and it would seem like a waste of my time. I've run into a lot of those and they are always right. Period. No sense in wasting my energy trying to convince them otherwise.

 

:iagree:

[gpsings]

*silently* wonders how these people feel about apologetics?

I wouldn't even respond. I'd ignore them and if they pressed on, I'd say "I don't know if there really is a response to such an ignorant argument"

Of course...that's me. I'm always antagonizing...

[Garga]

I think the fear behind this (and it is motivated by fear) is that many people who go into higher education do leave their faith. The problem is not that they've been introduced to higher thinking but that they haven't been taught how to think through things so that when they are introduced to different worldviews and opinions, they are easily swayed by them instead of looking at them seriously in view of what the Bible says.

 

Bingo. That's exactly what I was going to say. When kids grow up who don't know ALL the different points of view...it shakes them to their core to find out that there are other thoughts out there.

 

I was in my mid-twenties before I found out that not everyone thought that humans had been around for only 6000 years. I felt like a fool for not knowing what was common knowledge to everyone else. And I was ill-prepared to defend why I believed what I believed, since I was broad-sided with a point of view that I didn't know existed. (That's just an example.)

 

If you don't know what's out there, you can't fully understand or defend your own beliefs.

[Tiberia]

Jean in Newcastle said it more eloquently than I could have. I totally agree.

 

I believe you can have a strong personal faith without much "education," but that doesn't mean education is bad.

 

Christianity (I'm assuming they're Christians) didn't form in a vacuum. To really understand the Old Testament and the New Testament and the life and impact of Jesus and the Gospel, I believe you need a good grasp of ancient and modern history, literature, philosophy, religion, etc.

 

If I believe in Truth, that truth will shine through all cultures and histories. I don't need to be afraid of my 6 year-old daughter learning about the Egyptian or Greek gods. The stories are fun and interesting, and they shed light on the age-old search for meaning and the supernatural. If and when she goes to college, she won't be blind-sided by different ideas. She'll know her faith and be able to articulate it.

 

I say if these people are open to discussion, talk to them. If their minds are closed, just be polite.

Edited October 2, 2010 by JoMama

[kalphs]

There is a subset of Christians who are suspicious of education. Usually it does no good to try to convince them otherwise but I've told people in that camp that "God is not afraid of being questioned." (There are passages which illustrate this but I'm too lazy to look them up right now.) I've also told them that God wants us to love Him with our whole heart and mind. It does well to cultivate our mind so that we can do so.

 

I think the fear behind this (and it is motivated by fear) is that many people who go into higher education do leave their faith. The problem is not that they've been introduced to higher thinking but that they haven't been taught how to think through things so that when they are introduced to different worldviews and opinions, they are easily swayed by them instead of looking at them seriously in view of what the Bible says.

Bravo!

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

[kalphs]

Over and over. People tell me they want their child to be Godly instead of educated. :001_huh:

 

Jean said it so well. :001_smile:

:iagree:

[LauraGB]

I wouldn't respond. People who think like that are too small minded to understand my response anyway and it would seem like a waste of my time. I've run into a lot of those and they are always right. Period. No sense in wasting my energy trying to convince them otherwise.

 

Go Dayle!

 

:iagree: Don't respond. It's none of their business. Especially if they feel you are leading your dd down the sinful path of free thinking - good grief.

[Melissa in Australia]

There is a subset of Christians who are suspicious of education.

I think the fear behind this (and it is motivated by fear) is that many people who go into higher education do leave their faith. The problem is not that they've been introduced to higher thinking but that they haven't been taught how to think through things so that when they are introduced to different worldviews and opinions, they are easily swayed by them instead of looking at them seriously in view of what the Bible says.

:iagree:

I was brought up in a religion like this. Education was looked on unfavourably, I was basically brainwashed into leaving school at 16. and going preaching instead.

 

I personally had a lot of personal conflict within myself when I started giving my children a classical education. (here I was reading myths of 'pagans' WHAT WAS I DOING!!!)

It has taken me years to get over this brainwashing I received as a youth.

I think your friends are speaking from a real fear that they have.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

:iagree:

 

In the end, I consider these types of people just too toxic to be around. And I don't think I've ever actually said that about anybody. It's probably just that I've had a particularly large dose of these people in my life & have come to a point that I don't want to put up w/ it any more.

 

Find a new circle.

 

:iagree:

I've not had anyone come out to my face and tell me they feared for my kids' souls. I have had other homeschoolers denigrate the books used by programs I'm fond of with a dismissive comment like, "No one I know uses that after 6th grade. I mean have you seen the books they use?"

 

I decided with that comment that I didn't really need to continue listening seriously to anything else the woman said. And I'm glad, because other statements in other areas were equally unfounded in reality.

[May]

Find new people to hang out with:)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Over and over. People tell me they want their child to be Godly instead of educated. :001_huh:

 

Jean said it so well. :001_smile:

 

There is a line in a book I read a few years back where the author (a pro-homeschooling guy) says that while he'd like his kids to be well educated and strong in their faith, he'd rather they were godly plumbers than astrophysicists who had abandoned their faith.

 

I can see what he's saying. On the other hand I don't think that teaching my kids about fluid dynamics, pipe brazing and how to remount a toilet will create a desire for God in their hearts any more than studying the wonders of creation in all its facets from plants and animals to atoms and stellar distances has to foster skepticism in God.

 

What a wider and deeper education does often expose are the cultural presumptions that have been fused onto faith.

[Cindyz]

Here's a link to the article. :)

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=28

 

Oh! It was already posted. That's what happens when you leave the browser window open and walk away. :D :D

[Carol in Cal.]

There is an idea that floats around in extremely conservative Christian circles that classical ed teaches people to think like pagan ancient Greeks, and that instead we should teach our kids an Israelite worldview. David Quine is quite a proponent of that view--he publishes pretty radical worldview stuff for Christian homeschoolers, some of which I love and some of which I find way too biased for my taste. (I have seen his view from others as well.) He has claimed that Francis Schaeffer was a proponent of the same view, but I need to go back and read him to see whether I agree or not. It has been years since I read Francis Schaeffer, but I don't recall his theories to be easily netted out like that. My suspician is that DQ has over-simplified them, but again, I have to go back and read FS to make sure.

 

Anyway, I disagree. I think that ancient Greek thought is foundational to Western and American history and is crucial to understand, Christian or not. Furthermore, there is no reason to study Greek thought, or any other thought, uncritically. There is much to admire in Greek plays, for instance, but fatalistic view that the gods determine everything is not something that I teach as true, but rather as tragically false. (Give me a break.) Contrasting Greek myths with Bible truth is something I have always done with my child. That is part of my job as a parent. Frankly, learning the Greek and Roman gods' stories just makes the Bible look more impressive. Which leads me to another point--learning Greek thought does not preclude learning an Israelite/Christian worldview--in fact, it can be helpful in that endeavor.

 

And, in everything that could shake my DD's faith, I want to get there first with my version to arm her for when she hears that stuff later. Far better that she hears it from me when we can discuss it than if she hears it for the first time at 19 in a university where her beliefs are mocked and attempts are made to debunk them. As for critical thinking, has anyone read any Craig Parton lately? Critical thinking serves Biblical credibility.

 

As a Christian, I love and do not fear the truth.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Carol in Cal.

[mommaduck]

Over the past year Dh and I have received criticism from individuals (within and outside the homeschooling community) for providing a "classical education" for Dd.

These individuals feel it is "wrong" to expose Dd to great works of literature, poetry, history, science, math, foreign language, famous artists/composers. It is "bad" to teach Dd logic and critical thinking skills.

Apparently according to these individuals by exposing Dd to "classical education" we are leading her down the path of sin/degradation and into the land of free thinking.

Dh and I stand firm in our decision in how to home educate our child.

We want Dd to thrive as the curious, intelligent individual she was created to be.

We want Dd to become a productive member of society not just merely a consumer.

So out of curiosity how would you respond to these individuals remarks?

Has anyone else out there in WTM Forums Land dealt with this type of situation?

I have a BIL/SIL that think this way. It's due to several reasons with them. Extreme forms of fundamentalism typically think this way.

[kalphs]

I have a BIL/SIL that think this way. It's due to several reasons with them. Extreme forms of fundamentalism typically think this way.

The individuals who have provided the criticism are either new families to our local homeschooling group or my inlaws.

The common denominator is both groups have the extreme fundamentalist mentality.

I have had to bite the inside of my mouth not to laugh at their comments.

After they make critical comments Dh and I proceed to explain what classical education is and what it is not.

We refute their comments using logic and critical thinking skills.

It is simply amazing how quickly they will zip it.

Yes, you can be godly and be educated just take a look at J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Dorothy Sayers.

[mommaduck]

The individuals who have provided the criticism are either new families to our local homeschooling group or my inlaws. The common denominator is both groups have the extreme fundamentalist mentality.

I have had to bite the inside of my mouth not to laugh at their comments.

After they make critical comments Dh and I proceed to explain what classical education is and what it is not.

We refute their comments using logic and critical thinking skills.

It is simply amazing how quickly they will zip it. :D

:001_smile: Yep, and sometimes those conversations can be quite frustrating as they try to make you think that you are the one that's lost it.

[kalphs]

:001_smile: Yep, and sometimes those conversations can be quite frustrating as they try to make you think that you are the one that's lost it.

Isn't that the truth! :D

[LibraryLover]

That's crazy talk.

Edited October 3, 2010 by LibraryLover

[FO4UR]

Wise as a serpent, innocent as a dove...Matt 10:16

[angela in ohio]

There is an idea that floats around in extremely conservative Christian circles that classical ed teaches people to think like pagan ancient Greeks, and that instead we should teach our kids an Israelite worldview.

 

Ironically, it is another conservative Christian circle that is largely responsible for the growth of classical education in schools and homeschooling circles in this country (Doug Wilson, Veritas Press, etc.)

 

That's my conservative Christian circle (though I have found pockets of anti-classical within it.) :001_smile:

 

There was a great speaker at the Midwest Convention for the past few years. His name is Dr. Jonathan Pennington. He did a few talks about anti-intellectualism and raising thinking Christian children. Good stuff!!

[Carol in Cal.]

Ironically, it is another conservative Christian circle that is largely responsible for the growth of classical education in schools and homeschooling circles in this country (Doug Wilson, Veritas Press, etc.)

 

That's my conservative Christian circle (though I have found pockets of anti-classical within it.) :001_smile:

 

There was a great speaker at the Midwest Convention for the past few years. His name is Dr. Jonathan Pennington. He did a few talks about anti-intellectualism and raising thinking Christian children. Good stuff!!

 

Good point. In my faith tradition, Gene Vieth is another who encourages the revival of Christian classical education, and his theology is quite conservative (as mine is as well).

[Pretty in Pink]

LOLOL @ the original post...seriously? Because free thinking is such an awful thing. Uh...I would probably laugh out loud. :001_huh:

[kalphs]

Ironically, it is another conservative Christian circle that is largely responsible for the growth of classical education in schools and homeschooling circles in this country (Doug Wilson, Veritas Press, etc.)

:iagree:

[kalphs]

LOLOL @ the original post...seriously? Because free thinking is such an awful thing. Uh...I would probably laugh out loud. :001_huh:

It's funny but at the same time it's not because these people truly believe what they are saying.