Hazing

[asta]

This will probably devolve (which, frankly, I've never understood, as this board is supposedly so... eh), and I'll probably end up banned, but here goes:

 

There is a story on the blog site "The Smoking Gun" about a woman who was hazed by a sorority in 2008, brought her perpetrators to justice, and won the case. I'll link it below. But what caught my eye was this bit from the comments section:

 

Submitted by Darrell on Fri, 2010-09-03 00:16.

 

You see I was abused as a child and into adulthood. In the 60's the school principle didn’t recognize child abuse. Frankly his idea of my behavior problem was to haul me in everyday and give me licks, I recall praying that God would kill him. He would hit me hard and leave bruises, I was 13 and 6’4†he didn’t like me because I didn’t want to play football. The football coach once sent 15 members of the football team out of the gym to beat me because I was smoking a cigarette after lunch out by a tree. I dropped out when I went to another school. The coach came in to give everybody licks when he came to me I turned and walked out of the locker room, never went back.

 

As I became increasingly more violent the adults thought increased beatings would work. One night I stole some cigarettes and got caught. My grandfather had no idea of the abuse; he told my father “beat him with a 2x4.†That night, that is what my Father did. Years later as an adult I revealed what happened that night to my Grandfather; he cried, as I am now at this writing, I’m 56. I was in prison and 41 years old before I was able to stop the abuse. I forgave my Father before he died, but not that principle. I’m a self educated engineer, but I have to be careful I almost killed the last guy that threatened me. I don’t understand humans that abuse other humans. I would be writing this from prison if this incident had happened to me.

 

This man had it happen in the 60s. I had it happen from school mates in the 70s. Some of my schoolmates had it happen both at school AND at home. Apparently, it's still cool to behave like an @sshole at college.

 

I'm relatively certain that these young women weren't brought up in bad homes - sorority life is not inexpensive. Nor would have being brought up in a "bad environment" necessarily prompted such abhorrent behavior.

 

I know I'm a literalist. I guess what I'm trying to wrap my mind around is, where does it stop? Why are 18 and 19 year old young men and women doing this kind of thing?

 

 

asta

[Perry]

I'm relatively certain that these young women weren't brought up in bad homes - sorority life is not inexpensive. Nor would have being brought up in a "bad environment" necessarily prompted such abhorrent behavior.

 

asta

I wouldn't make that assumption. I'd be willing to bet there was plenty of abuse in their homes.

[unsinkable]

This will probably devolve (which, frankly, I've never understood, as this board is supposedly so... eh), and I'll probably end up banned, but here goes:

 

There is a story on the blog site "The Smoking Gun" about a woman who was hazed by a sorority in 2008, brought her perpetrators to justice, and won the case. I'll link it below. But what caught my eye was this bit from the comments section:

 

 

 

This man had it happen in the 60s. I had it happen from school mates in the 70s. Some of my schoolmates had it happen both at school AND at home. Apparently, it's still cool to behave like an @sshole at college.

 

I'm relatively certain that these young women weren't brought up in bad homes - sorority life is not inexpensive. Nor would have being brought up in a "bad environment" necessarily prompted such abhorrent behavior.

 

I know I'm a literalist. I guess what I'm trying to wrap my mind around is, where does it stop? Why are 18 and 19 year old young men and women doing this kind of thing?

 

 

asta

 

asta,

 

there are people on this board who think it's funny to talk about being violent when they come across people or situations they don't like. It's bizarre to me. And they aren't talking about self-defense issues.

 

It doesn't stop. It is a mindset that is everywhere. I'm convinced.

[Lolosoli]

asta,

 

there are people on this board who think it's funny to talk about being violent when they come across people or situations they don't like. It's bizarre to me. And they aren't talking about self-defense issues.

 

It doesn't stop. It is a mindset that is everywhere. I'm convinced.

 

 

I agree and that goes for parenting as well, IMO.

 

All forms of violence against children/people is either seen as wrong or not...there isn't a middle ground as far as I'm concerned.

 

Those sorority girls seem to like spankings a punishments...that definitely stuck out in my mind.

[unsinkable]

I agree and that goes for parenting as well, IMO.

 

All forms of violence against children/people is either seen as wrong or not...there isn't a middle ground as far as I'm concerned.

 

Those sorority girls seem to like spankings a punishments...that definitely stuck out in my mind.

 

Yeah, and I bet they weren't done lovingly and follow by a calm discussion and a hug.

[smrtmama]

 

I'm relatively certain that these young women weren't brought up in bad homes - sorority life is not inexpensive. Nor would have being brought up in a "bad environment" necessarily prompted such abhorrent behavior.

 

 

DV/abuse happens fairly equally across all socioeconomic statuses. Don't assume these girls, or the girls who are leading them in this, didn't experience it.

[RegGuheert]

 

Why are 18 and 19 year old young men and women doing this kind of thing?

When I read something like this I always think of the famous Zimbardo experiment at Stanford in 1971 in which college students who knew they were only "playing" prisoners and prison guards quickly took on their roles in a personal way. The experiment had to be ended after only a few days since the guards had become abusive of the prisoners (but not physically, since that was not allowed). I definitely think there is a sort of gang or pack or mob mentality that occurs in many larger groups. I'm not sure this is the same as an individual taking their child into a room alone and beating them. Edited September 3, 2010 by RegGuheert
Changed link to a better one.

[asta]

When I read something like this I always think of the famous Zimbardo experiment at Stanford in 1971

 

:: facepalm ::

 

I've actually read that study. It didn't even come to mind.

 

 

a

[TravelingChris]

I have noticed that the reports of this kind of hazing has been reported in black Greek groups. I have no idea whether it is due to reporting or whether there really is more of this kind of problem with them. If it is true, then I think background may have a lot to do with it. There certainly is a lot more violence occurring in predominately black neighborhoods.

 

The kind of horrible hazing I have heard about in white Greek groups is alcohol related and also sometimes physical conditions (like making people walk a long way in wet clothing on a cold day). Unlike this report, most of those reports involve death or serious injuries.

 

I also think these stories are widely reported and make it seem much more common. The thousands of Greek houses that have nothing like these things going on don't get national exposure. Only when something dramatic happens does anyone here anything. I suspect that most groups don't do anything like this, white or black Greek societies.

[asta]

When I was living in Atlanta - I'm trying to think of how many colleges were there... GA Tech, U of GA, Morehouse, Spelman, Emory, Clark Atlanta, Atlanta Baptist, Morris Brown - there were a ton, and I don't know how many had a Greek presence, I know that there were some odd "identification" things that happened. There was similar dressing (I assume that is a very old custom), tattooing (which was rather easy, as it "blended in" to the whole young adult culture), and then branding.

 

Branding? I never understood this one. Why would any person willingly brand themselves like a head of cattle?

 

Then again, I'm a bit of a prude about body modification, so...

 

a

[QueenCat]

 

I'm relatively certain that these young women weren't brought up in bad homes - sorority life is not inexpensive. Nor would have being brought up in a "bad environment" necessarily prompted such abhorrent behavior.

 

Bad homes can still be wealthy homes. There are plenty of great parents who don't have money. And plenty of bad parents with money.

[LG Gone Wild]

I don't think it is because of parental abuse the way you guys think. I think it has to do with a culture that has no respect for life or dignity (not talking abortion): ours is a pleasure seeking, selfish, indulgent culture.

[jewellsmommy]

I think it has a lot to do with mob mentality. If they were one on one I doubt these girls would be beating each other up for fun. As far as the poster goes, he obviously had abuse growing up and that is different.

 

The whole hazing thing kind of reminds me of watching animals, like puppies, establish a type of hierarchy based on their rough play. They bite and jump and make each other squeal. I always found it somewhat disturbing and want to rescue the "runt" animal that is getting the worst of it. Some people raise their kids, particularly boys, this way. I have been around a family who let their boys practically beat the snot out of each other. The 'winner' (bigger boy) got more respect and first grabs at the dinner :glare:. Just like the puppies.

[Stacy in NJ]

Folks that involve themselves in Greek life do it voluntarily. It is a terrible shame that young men or women would behave in this way, but hazing wouldn't happen if more pledges would just walk away when the hazing began. Hazing happens because people tolerate it.

 

Darrell the person who commented was in a entirely different situation than the college girl, and while we can all abhor violence, his situation really isn't germain to the other.

[Chris in VA]

Ime, hazing is meant to be a bonding experience--no, really!

It's a sort of, "We are sisters because we have a shared experience."

Why a violent, degrading experience is seen as more powerful than an uplifting, positive one is a question no one has been able to answer for me.

[forevergrace]

I totally agree w/abuse often starting in the home of the child who now is the adult. To a degree; I was raised in an extremely violent home and suffered the rage of a bipolar mother. Years later, the slightest noise would make me jump. Still does to this day. However, through the Grace of God and my loving husband I'm much more calmer person.

 

At one point I remember someone (a friend) surprising me from behind at the market. DD was 18 months old, and she was in her little seat giggling, and I was giggling at just how remarkably adorable she was and is. I tell you for that split instant; I can only say it was like a blanket of blackness falling over me, that quickly! I turned around and instinctively punched her in the face. God, did I feel awful, and I can remember crying w/her, in the middle of the market, and knowing that I needed help.

 

I won't get into the details of my childhood, but it does cause an impact. However, I also know for a fact that some children are never abused and become abusive adults. Then there are abused children that become functioning adults. Genetics is the only thing I can think of for the reasoning of the non-abused children, and I don't say this lightly. We all see the difference in our children, (at least I do) and wonder at some point where did that behaviour come from?

 

One mom mentioned mob mentality, and she is definitely right. Something evolves between groups of people, and very often the shy, or the child that doesn't fit in is targeted. Without any main reason, they all could of been getting along for sometime and then the dynamics shift. I see it at our hs group, and I see it among some of the mothers of the group. I'm not saying that it is done to the degree that is being discussed, but it does occur in various ways. It is pack behaviour, animalistic in it's very origins.

 

I think I'm rambling at this point, I don't want to do work today!!!

Forevergrace

[happi duck]

The show "What would you do?" featured hazing recently. The first link is boys the second link is girls. Some of the reactions of bystanders make me so sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcsj_Z8Zyl0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tys1veudsGU&feature=related

[Dmmetler]

http://www.amazon.com/Pledged-Secret-Sororities-Alexandra-Robbins/dp/B000FDFWP0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283545564&sr=8-1

 

I found the above book quite interesting, especially with regards to the difference between traditionally White, Black, and Hispanic sororities.

 

 

I'm an Alpha Phi Omega (service fraternity that was created by former Boy Scouts who wanted to continue a similar experience into the college level, co-ed since the 1960s). About as innocuous as you can get as far as a fraternity goes. However, one of our chapter traditions was that, at some point (always a weekend), the pledges would be awakened early in the morning, "kidnapped", and served breakfast by the brothers. We all knew it was coming (as did the various housing and residence life staff), and it was a campus tradition that didn't come as a surprise to ANYONE-even if they were a first semester freshman, because they would have been told about it by dozens of people as soon as the pledge pin went on.

 

Imagine our surprise when we were told, when a regional person was visiting the chapter, that this was hazing, and that you could do nothing to separate pledges and actives beyond the once a week special membership class. No Pledges vs Brothers softball games, no requiring the pledge class to come up with their own service project and coordinate it (with the actives participating in it), no giving the pledges a list of trivia about the brothers, requiring them to talk to each member and get to know them...nothing that really HAD helped to cement the new members into the group.

 

One of our faculty advisers was in charge of the Newman Center on campus, and commented that by that definition, the Catholic church hazed prospective members by not allowing them to take communion.

[asta]

The show "What would you do?" featured hazing recently. The first link is boys the second link is girls. Some of the reactions of bystanders make me so sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcsj_Z8Zyl0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tys1veudsGU&feature=related

 

I found the disinterest in helping the women (but instead sitting around and watching them as sex objects) absolutely horrifying.

 

 

a

[Chris in VA]

I was stunned by this program--I only saw the part where the girls were making another girl drink alcohol (fake, of course, but none of the bystanders knew that).

I turned it off after that b/c I couldn't stomach it.

 

I know my brother joined Lambda Chi Alpha at Univ of Miami specifically b/c they did not haze (this was 1977 or 8). Do you know of any other Greeks who don't--not those who don't because they can't, but those who don't and never did? Just curious.

[gingersmom]

I didn't find it so shocking that these women would be hazing one another.

 

I have no doubt that these girls were "spanked" as children. Now they are grown up and just repeating what they had been brought up with.

[kalanamak]

I think it has a lot to do with mob mentality.

 

:iagree:

[OrganicAnn]

I went to a college that was 80% or more Greek. None of the sororities hazed. About 1/2 the fraternities did not haze at all. The other 1/2 the fraternities either lightly haze or more seriously.

 

They usually justify it as a way to bond the members together (like the hazing that happens in the military for the same purpose).

[pqr]

I didn't find it so shocking that these women would be hazing one another.

 

I have no doubt that these girls were "spanked" as children. Now they are grown up and just repeating what they had been brought up with.

 

 

Just what does spanking have to do with the behavior on the links? To equate the two simply does not make sense.

 

I know plenty of parents who spank and in no way can what they do be compared to hazing or bullying. You are comparing apples and lawn chairs.

[hillfarm]

For starters, create a community during the high school years that values self esteem and individuality, not mindless pursuit of that deemed "cool" or "popular". Give kids enough of a self image and self pride to develop boundaries regarding that which crosses the line, which they will not do to themselves or permit others to do.

 

Then reward appropriate behavior during the college years: academic excellence, service to others, innovation, etc. with great adventure trips or fantastic internship opportunities. Make it much more fun to achieve rather than spend 4 years in a drunken stupor.

 

Create wonderful social opportunities for the entire student body, not leaving it in the hands of the Greek community alone. Typical things like parties and concerts, but also service opportunities such as disaster relief. Develop a strong sense of pride in self and school. Don't leave a hole in the students' social lives that only the Greeks can fill.

 

Facilitate a strong mentorship and networking system that provides a hand up for all graduates, not just those who can call on Greek buddies.

 

IMO, by helping kids establish boundaries and removing the exclusive benefits of the Greek system, much of the "price of belonging" would be seen as ridiculously high and kids just wouldn't join. Regarding whether prior abuse conditions one to continue to accept it, the answer is probably yes. However, appropriate screening and counseling might be able to help these students see that they can finally end the abuse.

 

BTW, I was in a sorority in the early 80's and while there was encouragement to do the drinking/hazing rituals, we definitely had the right to opt out, and most of us did during certain portions. Others however, wallowed in the drama and attention and did things for which they were later sorry. The perpetrators, I feel compelled to mention, were not the most mature or intelligent people around and only a fool would have allowed them control over their lives. We all knew that, and yet some still went for it.

[mcconnellboys]

Why are they doing this kind of thing? I think in many instances simply because there's precedent for it; a tradition of it; it's accepted practice.

 

If schools insist that hazings will not be tolerated, getting around the rules is all the more reason to continue it.

 

What's the point? I think it's a power rush for those doing it. The perpetrators were once victims themselves and now they want their chance at power.

 

Why do it at all? I have no idea. Why do we ever act in violent ways toward one another?

[happi duck]

I found the disinterest in helping the women (but instead sitting around and watching them as sex objects) absolutely horrifying.

 

 

a

:iagree::iagree:

[pqr]

I found the disinterest in helping the women (but instead sitting around and watching them as sex objects) absolutely horrifying.

 

I agree. What has become of men in today's world?

 

...though also of great concern was the behavior of the other females in objectifying women as sex objects. Then again the mode of dress that one sees on the streets of many US cities indicates that this is how some females view themselves as well.

Edited September 4, 2010 by pqr

[Pam Wilhelm]

It makes me cry..... it is all so sad.

 

...and I was spanked as a child...it has never made me want to go out and torture anyone...

 

Hazing is all too prevalent...... how about the military?? It's just commonplace there....

 

:crying:

[Sophia]

 

I guess what I'm trying to wrap my mind around is, where does it stop? Why are 18 and 19 year old young men and women doing this kind of thing?

 

 

asta

 

Great question. It seems overall there is more room for what is acceptable.

 

A few years ago, I went to a wedding where the bride and groom were the brainy nerdy type. Guests were family and their brainy nerdy friends from college. So the dancing starts (rap, no less), and to my surprise I see several young women bend over with their partners gyrating behind them, spanking them. :001_huh: I asked my neice about it and she looks at me like I'm an old fogey and says "that's the way we dance."

Ok, so it's been over 20 years since I went clubbing, but I don't recall anyone spanking anyone...and I think these kids took dirty dancing to a whole new level.

I would personally find being spanked on the dance floor to be demeaning, (duh!) but those women didn't~so if that's what's happening on the dance floors, it's just not too surprising to me that they would also subject themselves to hazing that gets carried away.

 

?? Or maybe I'm way off...

[pqr]

I see several young women bend over with their partners gyrating behind them, spanking them.

 

That would never have even entered my mind while dancing, but then again the type of young ladies I dated would have taken my head clean off had I tried a stunt like that.

 

Had I done that with my bride at our wedding I would have had the world's shortest marriage.

[asta]

It makes me cry..... it is all so sad.

 

...and I was spanked as a child...it has never made me want to go out and torture anyone...

 

Hazing is all too prevalent...... how about the military?? It's just commonplace there....

 

:crying:

 

It used to be. Then it was pretty much banned. Literally banned. As in, go to jail banned (hence the shock of Abu Gharab - the majority of the military thought that crap was long gone; I guess some sections didn't get the message...).

 

Not to defend it (or maybe to defend it), it wasn't the crap you were seeing in those videos.

 

It's kind of hard to explain to anyone who has never been in a military unit, but there are several here that have been, so... when you're in a unit, you have to know that everyone in it is "on the same page". That everyone is doing their job, that everyone is pulling their load. People who go hide when there is work to be done not only damage the cohesiveness of the unit, they can potentially get the entire unit killed. It isn't like the slacker at the office that everyone can't stand - it is literally life and death.

 

Up until the 80s, there used to be something called "blanket parties" in the barracks (these have been officially banned and resolutely eliminated - trust me - there was a person we most definitely would have used it on). They went like this: after lights out (completely dark except an exit sign), everyone took their blanket off their bed, put a new bar of soap into it (still wrapped, wouldn't leave a mark on the wool), twisted it up into a type of swingable... bludgeon? and proceeded to whomp the person who refused to do any work. Then they all went back to their bunks, remade their bed, and went to sleep.

 

The next morning, there were no weapons to be found, no faces to be identified, and no cuts on the person who was whomped. But the message was clear: straighten up, or it would continue. I never heard of anyone getting it done more than once.

 

The other things people associate with hazing in the military are drill sergeants yelling at recruits (also eliminated in favor of "respecting their feelings" - yeah, that worked out real well for the "new Army"), and something called "dining-ins" which were alcohol filled parties segregated by rank: one for senior non-commissioned officers and one for commissioned officers. Neither was technically "optional". They included things such as drinking from a "punch" bowl that was made of every alcohol known to man (ewww) and sliding down conference tables covered in whipped cream while in full dress uniform. Basic drunken debauchery, but no strippers. Those were also eliminated (the event I mean - strippers left in the 70s). Not much time with 2, 3, how many wars do we have going now? Don't much need bonding activities in garrison when you have wars.

 

Much of what is reported as hazing about the military in the popular press is simply a loss of civilian life. And, as civilian life for 18-21 year olds has become increasingly "soft" for many of them (a higher percentage is overweight and out of shape, has spent more time indoors on video games and less time out of doors simply doing things, is accustomed to immediate gratification and many electronic devices) - military life is an incredible shock. Especially initial training, with a huge amount of physical activity, all out of doors, no electronics, no "personal space", etc. I imagine it would feel quite abusive to today's generation. Twenty years ago, it just felt "different."

 

 

a

[forevergrace]

Call me crazy, but I think the main point has been lost. We preach what we teach, I know this sounds right-winged, perhaps to some fanatical. However, we can not condemn on the falsehoods of pretentious thoughts of make-believe (spankings) nor can we change them in one fleeting moment of recognition. This is not a new issue, and truly I feel sorry for those who believe in their innocence state of being; that this is a new thing. It is not by any stretch new, I repeat: It is not by any stretch new. What frightens us most is the things we have ignored. Now, that some of our children are coming of age (young adults), the fears becomes all to real. If you have "walked the talk" that has been expressed in so posts, why are you so frightened? Kahlil Gibran once stated: "Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you."

Forevergrace

[LG Gone Wild]

Great question. It seems overall there is more room for what is acceptable.

 

A few years ago, I went to a wedding where the bride and groom were the brainy nerdy type. Guests were family and their brainy nerdy friends from college. So the dancing starts (rap, no less), and to my surprise I see several young women bend over with their partners gyrating behind them, spanking them. :001_huh: I asked my neice about it and she looks at me like I'm an old fogey and says "that's the way we dance."

Ok, so it's been over 20 years since I went clubbing, but I don't recall anyone spanking anyone...and I think these kids took dirty dancing to a whole new level.

I would personally find being spanked on the dance floor to be demeaning, (duh!) but those women didn't~so if that's what's happening on the dance floors, it's just not too surprising to me that they would also subject themselves to hazing that gets carried away.

 

?? Or maybe I'm way off...

 

Barf. And I am not a prude or fuddy duddy.

 

Hence my comment about nobody (present company excluded of course :tongue_smilie:) teaching their children the importance of human dignity.

[Renee in NC]

Call me crazy, but I think the main point has been lost. We preach what we teach, I know this sounds right-winged, perhaps to some fanatical. However, we can not condemn on the falsehoods of pretentious thoughts of make-believe (spankings) nor can we change them in one fleeting moment of recognition. This is not a new issue, and truly I feel sorry for those who believe in their innocence state of being; that this is a new thing. It is not by any stretch new, I repeat: It is not by any stretch new. What frightens us most is the things we have ignored. Now, that some of our children are coming of age (young adults), the fears becomes all to real. If you have "walked the talk" that has been expressed in so posts, why are you so frightened? Kahlil Gibran once stated: "Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you."

Forevergrace

 

:confused::confused: I have no idea what you mean here.

[DarlaS]

:confused::confused: I have no idea what you mean here.

 

I understood the first three words...

[Miss Sherry]

Great question. It seems overall there is more room for what is acceptable.

 

A few years ago, I went to a wedding where the bride and groom were the brainy nerdy type. Guests were family and their brainy nerdy friends from college. So the dancing starts (rap, no less), and to my surprise I see several young women bend over with their partners gyrating behind them, spanking them. :001_huh: I asked my neice about it and she looks at me like I'm an old fogey and says "that's the way we dance."

Ok, so it's been over 20 years since I went clubbing, but I don't recall anyone spanking anyone...and I think these kids took dirty dancing to a whole new level.

I would personally find being spanked on the dance floor to be demeaning, (duh!) but those women didn't~so if that's what's happening on the dance floors, it's just not too surprising to me that they would also subject themselves to hazing that gets carried away.

 

?? Or maybe I'm way off...

No way are you way off. So many young people have become extremely desensitized to vulgar behavior, it's shocking.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I understood the first three words...

 

 

I once received an email that was worded much like that post. The nice thing about it, though was that I ended up winning a foreign lottery. :D

[Heatherwith4]

I once received an email that was worded much like that post. The nice thing about it, though was that I ended up winning a foreign lottery. :D

 

:lol: I am so glad I am not the only one who didn't understand...I was feeling a little dumb.

 

I can't really comment on hazing. I have never been cool, and I was never close to being cool, so I can't begin to understand why people want to act the way they do. It makes me sad, though.

[Miss Sherry]

Call me crazy, but I think the main point has been lost. We preach what we teach, I know this sounds right-winged, perhaps to some fanatical. However, we can not condemn on the falsehoods of pretentious thoughts of make-believe (spankings) nor can we change them in one fleeting moment of recognition. This is not a new issue, and truly I feel sorry for those who believe in their innocence state of being; that this is a new thing. It is not by any stretch new, I repeat: It is not by any stretch new. What frightens us most is the things we have ignored. Now, that some of our children are coming of age (young adults), the fears becomes all to real. If you have "walked the talk" that has been expressed in so posts, why are you so frightened? Kahlil Gibran once stated: "Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you."

Forevergrace

I do not understand what this person is saying. Am I just dense or what ?

[jewellsmommy]

I understood the first three words...

 

:lol: Hey, I understood the last 3 words. We're 1/100th the way to understanding!

[Trish]

When I read something like this I always think of the famous Zimbardo experiment at Stanford in 1971 in which college students who knew they were only "playing" prisoners and prison guards quickly took on their roles in a personal way. The experiment had to be ended after only a few days since the guards had become abusive of the prisoners (but not physically, since that was not allowed). I definitely think there is a sort of gang or pack or mob mentality that occurs in many larger groups. I'm not sure this is the same as an individual taking their child into a room alone and beating them.

 

Having gone to college on a campus where fraternity/sorority life was widespread, I would say the abuse has more to do with this "group mentality" than any particular abuse experienced by individual members. Some fraternities and sororities were known to have abusive types of rituals, and attracted certain types of students, others did not.

[Trish]

I didn't find it so shocking that these women would be hazing one another.

 

I have no doubt that these girls were "spanked" as children. Now they are grown up and just repeating what they had been brought up with.

 

Unless you were part of the Greek System you really can't make that call. I doubt that played any role.

[pqr]

Originally Posted by gingersmom

I didn't find it so shocking that these women would be hazing one another.

 

I have no doubt that these girls were "spanked" as children. Now they are grown up and just repeating what they had been brought up with.

 

Unless you were part of the Greek System you really can't make that call. I doubt that played any role.

 

I agree, an attempt to swing this discussion into one on spanking.

Edited September 5, 2010 by pqr