WWYD? Dog nipped at Baby

[KellyGirl]

I mostly lurk around here, but I need some objective input on this.:bigear:

 

First, a little history. We got our beagle 3 years ago, when she was 3 years old and had already been through 2 other owners. We were told they were getting rid of her because they had to move, but she had such a bad reaction to flea bites that she had no hair on her hind quarters. She was uninterested in being house broken and ran away from home like it was her job (we found these last two out on our own:angry

 

Her redeeming feature was how good she was with the kids. She didn't mind my toddlers at all - even if they got in her face while she was eating. Over the years we have slowly conquered the behavior issues, but I kind of resent the dog because she wasn't what I bargained for.

 

When ds9mo started crawling a month or two ago, the dog was growling and showing her teeth every time the baby came near. We were tempted to drop the dog off at the shelter the next morning. But we yelled at her, locked her up for the night and watched. She never did it again. In fact, she became very friendly with the baby.

 

Last night I gave the dog a rawhide bone. When the baby got near her she growled. When I stood up and took the bone away she was fine (just like she always was). Then I stood over the baby while he came near and she was fine. I sat back down (2 feet away) and she nipped at the baby.

 

The only thing holding back from getting rid of the dog now is ds11. The dog is his responsibility and he has been doing a great job taking care of her. He will be really upset if we get rid of her, but we will all be really upset if the baby gets hurt.

 

So, what should we do? Do we give the dog ANOTHER chance? My fear is that she will be great when we're watching, but that we can't trust her when we're not. And there is no way we can be watching every second.

[ChristusG]

I have found that dogs are VERY possessive of bones and treats.....even more so than their regular food. I make sure that whenever I give our dogs a bone or treat, they are away from the kids and the other dog.

 

My sister has a great dog too.....but that dog will even show her teeth at my sister when it comes to a bone.

 

My dog has bitten the air before at my children. Not bit them, just nipped the air as a warning. Did the dog actually nip the child? Or the air? I feel that growling (to a certain degree) is okay. They are warning the child that they do not want to be bothered then. I tell my kids that if the dog ever growls (which, honestly, has only been like twice when my kids were "in their space") then they need to take that as a warning and leave him alone for the time being.

 

I am VERY cautious with dogs and children though. If I EVER felt, for the slightest second, that my dog has become aggressive with the children (as opposed to the children invading his space and him feeling like he needs to give a warning), then the dog would be gone in a heartbeat.

 

And as far as watching every second......I'm sorry, but that's what I do with young children and dogs until I know that the child is old enough to respect the dogs space. Even if I have to seperate with a baby gate when I can't be watching, that's what I do. That being said, our dog does tend to stay to himself and find his own place to be, usually away from the kids.

Edited August 11, 2010 by ChristusG
added something

[Carrie12345]

I can't tell you whether to keep the dog or get rid of it. Personally, I don't trust dogs with babies or babies with dogs, and we do not let the two (well, 3... I have 2 dogs) mix unless our hands are right on one or the other until the babies are old enough to understand the rules and warning signs. That seems to be around age 2 in our house.

 

Growling definitely is not a good sign. However, I'd never expect a dog to willingly accept a baby's interference with food or toys. It's an unfair expectation. If you truly can't separate the two, then your baby's safety certainly has to come first in your decision.

[Teachin'Mine]

That's scary. It may be that with the baby crawling around, your dog is viewing him as more of a threat than the others who are walking, or he may see himself as dominant over the baby and be asserting that dominance. If you can afford to do it, I'd suggest getting a good trainer to work with you, your dog, and your family. I'd also suggest using a crate and never leaving the baby alone with the dog. Maybe a gate in the kitchen might help. I would only give the dog rawhide or other protective treats in his crate so your baby wouldn't be in harms way.

 

But Hornblower will probably have some excellent advice, and follow that instead of this!!!! :D

[leighp]

I don't trust dogs and babies. Period. Our dog bite my oldest dd when she was a baby. On the cheek. I was ready to get rid of the dog right that second. My husband had the dog longer than he had me, so he wouldn't agree. The dog never bite her again. Never even growled at her. But he was old and grouchy and I left them unattended together for just a minute. I suspect she poked him in the eye. ;) Our other dog is such a good dog that she would let her poke her in the eye. I didn't let her do it again after I saw her the first time.

 

I would probably give the dog another chance and not let her have food or treats when the baby is around. And don't let the baby bother the dog. I personally, don't think the dog is going to seek out the baby to do it harm. Try keeping the dog sectioned off when the baby is playing on the floor. Can you put a gate up to the living room and that keep the dog out?

 

Good luck! I hope you are able to keep your dog, but I understand the baby needs to come first.

[Journey]

It sounds like (and I don't mean to be mean) you don't like the dog, never have and are just looking for a reason to get rid of her. I think that if the dog could talk she would tell your child not to go near her while she has her chewy but since she obviously can't talk, she is telling him in the only way she knows how. It's not your son's fault that he can't understand what the dog is trying to "tell" him so ultimately it's your responsibility to keep the dog and child separate either all of the time or when she has food around her. I work at a kennel and beagles are known to be food aggressive in the kennel and their food is also very important to them. So please, don't blame the dog for something that isn't her fault and don't break your older son's heart by getting rid of her for really not doing anything wrong. Praise the Lord that the baby didn't get her and use this as a warning that the dog doesn't want to share her food or chewys with anyone and....just remember to never let your baby be alone around the beagle.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

When I was a kid, we had a dog that was cute, friendly, good with all of us kids, etc. Then as he got older, he started getting mean, would bark and nip, etc. He got off his lead and bit the mailman. The vet told my mom that a dog can develop a problem, perhaps a brain tumor, or some other factor that will change their behavior or disposition. When he started growling and snarling frequently, we had to put him to sleep. I was in college when he was put down, but I still cried like a baby about it. But, your ds will eventually understand if you give the dog away. He certainly wouldn't want something worse to happen to the baby.

[StephanieZ]

Nipping is not biting. Nipping is a warning. The dog is doing a lot of warning.

 

Call your vet and ask for a referral to a behaviorist (NOT A TRAINER) and within one or two meetings and some simple behavior modification at home, your dog will be just fine.

 

Meanwhile, you can keep your dog crated or in the yard or whatever when your toddler is loose and you are not on hand to immediatel supervise.

 

HTH

[I talk to the trees]

I may be oversimplifying the situation here, but I think the best thing to do is keep the dog and the baby apart. If you want to let the dog romp around the house, make sure the baby is in a crib/highchair/playpen. If baby is on the floor, make sure the dog is crated/gated off/ outside. Dogs are possessive when it comes to food and toys. *You* may be able to take those things away from her without incident because you are the boss. (Mommy giveth, and Mommy taketh away.) But in her eyes, the baby is nothing more than a food-stealing, toy-snatching, attention-grabbing rival. As the baby grows, and behaves more like the humans your pup is used to, she will accept baby as one of the human bosses. For now, keep them apart. Bless this poor dog's heart, she's already been through enough! The growling was just her way of telling you she's uncomfortable around the baby. Please don't discard her over a problem that is solvable!

[KellyGirl]

It sounds like (and I don't mean to be mean) you don't like the dog, never have and are just looking for a reason to get rid of her. .

 

Well, you're right...I don't really like the dog. I did at first (despite her behavior issues) but I got sick of her before she got sick of pooping in my house. My other issue here is that no one else really likes her either. While my oldest is getting to be pretty responsible with her, he would much rather play with the baby than the dog. I often say "Put your brother down and go play with dog."

 

And someone asked specifically where the dog nipped...it was at the air I think, not the baby - just really near the baby. I was not aware that beagles are food aggressive.

 

We did discuss only letting her have bones outside, but she really doesn't like to be outside. Toys are not an issue, she wouldn't play with a toy if her life depended on it.

 

I agree that the dog wouldn't seek out the baby, but the baby moves fast and that is my concern. Not that I'm going to leave the two of them in a room and walk away but that the baby could get in the dogs space pretty quickly. Hmm, lots to think about...Thanks for the input so far!

[WTMindy]

I'd get rid of the dog in a heartbeat. But, I'm not a dog person, so take it with a grain of salt.

[MamaChristina]

I agree with WTMindy. If a dog were to growl or nip at one of my children it would be gone SO fast it's head would spin weather it had a treat or not at the time.

 

We have a great pyrenees which are very food possessive. Ours has never growled or nipped at the kids even when it's eating. If she ever did, I'd get rid of her right away because you are right, they can't be watched every second. I don't take risks with my children.

[smrtmama]

I agree with WTMindy. If a dog were to growl or nip at one of my children it would be gone SO fast it's head would spin weather it had a treat or not at the time.

 

 

 

 

And that is exactly why there are so many dogs in shelters or rescues, because instead of addressing behavior issues with the dog OR the people (and frankly, this sounds like a people behavior issue, not a dog issue) the people ditch the dog.

[KellyGirl]

And that is exactly why there are so many dogs in shelters or rescues, because instead of addressing behavior issues with the dog OR the people (and frankly, this sounds like a people behavior issue, not a dog issue) the people ditch the dog.

 

Can you unpack that for me? What do you mean by people issue? I am really seeking to do best thing as a responsible dog owner and responsible parent...and of course getting rid of the baby isn't an option:tongue_smilie:

[Hockey Mom]

And that is exactly why there are so many dogs in shelters or rescues, because instead of addressing behavior issues with the dog OR the people (and frankly, this sounds like a people behavior issue, not a dog issue) the people ditch the dog.

:iagree:

 

OP, do you have a crate or kennel for the dog? For the immediate situation, I would suggest putting the dog in its "den" to eat. Give treats after baby has gone to bed for the night. In the meantime, work on establishing baby's order in your 'pack'.

 

We have a command for our mastiff that we use whenever he starts to get excited around people. It's "belly". As soon as he hears that, he immediately drops to the ground and shows his belly. That is a submissive position for a dog, and it also snaps the dog out of being aggressive/excited.

 

My mastiff is a big baby, but I still don't allow the kids around him unsupervised or while he's eating.

[Lolly]

I am a dog person. Very much so. Dog would be gone.

[ktgrok]

um...I hate to say this, but NO dog should be left unattended with a 9 month old. If you aren't watching and closely supervising then they are separate. Perod. And I'd say that if your dog was Lassie and Rin Tin Tin all rolled in one. Also, no rawhides when not supervised.

[ktgrok]

So the baby is trying to get to the dog while it eats a bone and the dog, rather than biting nipped the air? Sounds like a good dog. That we expect dogs to allow babies to get in their face while they are chewing a bone is unrealistic. Doggy needs a different spot to chew his bones, maybe behind a baby gate?

[Harriet Vane]

I would get rid of the dog, pronto. Trying to coach your dog to not establish dominance over your baby is foolhardy.

[Lolly]

misplaced.

[Once Again]

My opinion: dog nips kid, dog is GONE.

 

(and I say this as a person who loves dogs)

Edited August 11, 2010 by Once Again

[KellyGirl]

She does have a crate, and throwing the bone in there during the day is an option.

 

I can't even get my dog to lay down...she knows the command, she's just not interested.

 

And I don't leave the dog around the baby unsupervised...it just that we have 350 square feet of shared living space (kitchen, dining room and living room) so we are all in each others space all the time. The baby can quickly end up next to the dog...and being within arm's length might not be good enough.

 

A few people have suggested a trainer. That's not an option b/c of money. So how do I establish the baby's order in the pack?

[Lolly]

So the baby is trying to get to the dog while it eats a bone and the dog, rather than biting nipped the air? Sounds like a good dog. That we expect dogs to allow babies to get in their face while they are chewing a bone is unrealistic. Doggy needs a different spot to chew his bones, maybe behind a baby gate?

 

I believe the bone had already been taken from the dog. Dog nipped at baby while there was no bone around.

[KellyGirl]

I am a dog person. Very much so. Dog would be gone.

 

Thanks for putting it that way - thus far the answers seem divided into two categories - dog people saying give the dog a chance and non-dog people saying protect the baby. I was going to ask when do the dog people feel a line has been crossed...

[Carrie12345]

Thanks for putting it that way - thus far the answers seem divided into two categories - dog people saying give the dog a chance and non-dog people saying protect the baby. I was going to ask when do the dog people feel a line has been crossed...

 

I don't see it as that cut and dry. I can't imagine anyone would vote AGAINST protecting the baby! It's a matter of whether you're willing to protect the baby AND the dog, or would rather just get rid of the dog.

 

We've never done anything to establish any kind of "order" in our home. We've just waited until our kids were old enough to handle themselves appropriately.

[Mom0012]

I would get rid of the dog, but then I would never have a dog around a baby anyway. I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it.

 

Lisa

[Lolly]

Thanks for putting it that way - thus far the answers seem divided into two categories - dog people saying give the dog a chance and non-dog people saying protect the baby. I was going to ask when do the dog people feel a line has been crossed...

 

I've btdt and tried to keep the dog. I wouldn't do it again. We did have the dog put down before anything horrid happened. In our case, the dog was older. The vet said there was a tumor that was causing the dog pain which probably caused the aggression.

[Cheryl in NM]

I mostly lurk around here, but I need some objective input on this.:bigear:

 

First, a little history. We got our beagle 3 years ago, when she was 3 years old and had already been through 2 other owners. We were told they were getting rid of her because they had to move, but she had such a bad reaction to flea bites that she had no hair on her hind quarters. She was uninterested in being house broken and ran away from home like it was her job (we found these last two out on our own:angry

 

Her redeeming feature was how good she was with the kids. She didn't mind my toddlers at all - even if they got in her face while she was eating. Over the years we have slowly conquered the behavior issues, but I kind of resent the dog because she wasn't what I bargained for.

 

When ds9mo started crawling a month or two ago, the dog was growling and showing her teeth every time the baby came near. We were tempted to drop the dog off at the shelter the next morning. But we yelled at her, locked her up for the night and watched. She never did it again. In fact, she became very friendly with the baby.

 

ETA: I love dogs, was raised in a dog home and have had at least 1 dog the whole time ds was growing up. I understand the emotions of this situation.

 

Last night I gave the dog a rawhide bone. When the baby got near her she growled. When I stood up and took the bone away she was fine (just like she always was). Then I stood over the baby while he came near and she was fine. I sat back down (2 feet away) and she nipped at the baby.

 

The only thing holding back from getting rid of the dog now is ds11. The dog is his responsibility and he has been doing a great job taking care of her. He will be really upset if we get rid of her, but we will all be really upset if the baby gets hurt.

 

So, what should we do? Do we give the dog ANOTHER chance? My fear is that she will be great when we're watching, but that we can't trust her when we're not. And there is no way we can be watching every second.

 

My opinion is either very strict supervision of the dog/baby interaction or find the dog a new home. One more baby just might be more than the dog is willing to deal with. The dog just might not "like" this particular child. In either case, you will not be able to remedy the situation. It sounds like the dog escalated behavior toward the baby and I would expect that to continue.

 

You could make the situation work by being rigorous with supervision. Teach baby to stay away from dog when eating/chewing bones, etc and to generally ignore the dog. Keep a close eye on the dog and make sure it doesn't advance on baby.

 

This is great point to make with ds11 that people come before animals. Pets are ours to take care of; including when they become uncomfortable in their surroundings and we have to find them a new home. It's a painful lesson, but one he will learn sometime in his life if he continues to live with pets.

[bzymom]

I love dogs. We have always had dogs. Aggression towards children (or adults) is not something I would work on or around. I have seen too many kids bitten by family dogs. My neighbor just gave up her beloved yellow lab because it bit her daughter in the face. The behavior started with growling & nipping when the kids annoyed the dog, and they did everything they could to address it.

 

If my dog has a toy or a treat, we can take it any time. Sometimes I trip over her, sometimes her tail is accidentally stepped on as she sprawls across the room. These things happen. If she were to start growling or nipping or threatening, I would address it, but I could not tolerate it continuing.

 

I hope you find the solution that works for your family.

[hornblower]

Can you unpack that for me? What do you mean by people issue? I am really seeking to do best thing as a responsible dog owner and responsible parent...and of course getting rid of the baby isn't an option:tongue_smilie:

 

Oh - glad you mentioned that. It was going to be my suggestion.

 

Highly unlikely a baby would get euthenized...esp if the baby is cute.

[KellyGirl]

I don't see it as that cut and dry. I can't imagine anyone would vote AGAINST protecting the baby! It's a matter of whether you're willing to protect the baby AND the dog, or would rather just get rid of the dog.

 

We've never done anything to establish any kind of "order" in our home. We've just waited until our kids were old enough to handle themselves appropriately.

 

Right, I didn't mean to say "some people are choosing the dog over the baby."

What I meant was more along the lines of the dog people are saying "watch the baby, watch the dog, give it a chance."

 

My concern in such close quarters, with a dog that doesn't like to be outside or locked away from the family is - can I keep a handle on things? I think for my dog, it would be cruel to lock her up when the baby is free. And while it is possible that she will never look crossly at the baby again, it is also possible that it will go the other way. What would it take for you to say "This situation is too risky?" Maybe that is what I want to know...

[KellyGirl]

Oh - glad you mentioned that. It was going to be my suggestion.

 

Highly unlikely a baby would get euthenized...esp if the baby is cute.

 

:lol::lol::lol: Is that all you've got hornblower? And, yes...of course he is super cute!

[MyBlueLobsters]

I know 2 little girls (different times, different dogs) who were playing with a 'very friendly dog' who ended up in the ER with many stitches and a life long scarred face. I'd get rid of the dog.

[FriedClams]

We had the same thing happen. Dog was fine with Baby 1, then growled and disliked Baby 2. The dog was sequestered away from the kids and then left for it's new home the same week. I could not have lived with myself if anything had happened to the kids. I do not regret the decision at all.

[DarlaS]

Some dogs don't like babies. Some people don't either. It's part of their personality. I'm not sure something like that is safe to try and manipulate. People who don't like babies or children can choose to avoid situations (like working in a daycare) where they will be around a lot of babies. A dog cannot. (Yes, I know that sounds kind of odd--I'm very sleep deprived right now...)

 

Would this dog be happier elsewhere? If it were a male, and you lived near me, I'd take him! I don't have a baby (and my female husky would pretty quickly de-alpha him! :D). I take it the dog is female though.

 

I hope you find something that works for your family.

[Nakia]

I am definitely an animal person, and we have three dogs. I just can't see keeping a nipping/growling/biting dog around children at all. I actually wouldn't be concerned with a growl as a warning because that's the way dogs say "enough", but the escalating aggression is worrisome. I know dogs can not ever be 100% trusted because they are animals, but our three dogs, even the diva dog (chihuahua), are so gentle and patient with kids. My mother has a 15 year old dog that will growl if you look at her and leave a stub if you touch her, and that dog needs to be euthanized, like yesterday. Instead, my mother just leaves her alone, and she is locked up in the bathroom when my kids are there.

 

I don't know that you are going to find someone who is willing to take the dog though. If you decide to re-home her, make sure you are 100% honest with the new owners about her issues.

:grouphug: I know it's a hard decision that only you and your husband can make.

[Whereneverever]

I love dogs. We have always had dogs. Aggression towards children (or adults) is not something I would work on or around. I have seen too many kids bitten by family dogs. My neighbor just gave up her beloved yellow lab because it bit her daughter in the face. The behavior started with growling & nipping when the kids annoyed the dog, and they did everything they could to address it.

 

If my dog has a toy or a treat, we can take it any time. Sometimes I trip over her, sometimes her tail is accidentally stepped on as she sprawls across the room. These things happen. If she were to start growling or nipping or threatening, I would address it, but I could not tolerate it continuing.

 

I hope you find the solution that works for your family.

:iagree: We did a lot of work with our dog when we first got her as a puppy to baby proof her. I think you can work through this issue if you start now, before it escalates further. If not, you will probably have to re-home the dog.

[Cheryl in NM]

Cesar Milan has excellent tips about establishing pack order for your dog and dominance over your dog. He has written books and his tv shows (by National Geographic) can be ordered from Netflix and are at the library.

 

If you are interested in keeping the dog you should check out his materials. If you decide to get rid of the dog please don't take him to a shelter; he will be killed. Try to find a home through message boards and craigslist. Just make sure to disclose the problems you've had. Since he's pure bred there is probably a rescue in your area that you could contact.

 

You've mentioned that the dog doesn't like being away from the family or outside. If he's snapping at your baby he doesn't like being with the family either. He's not snapping because he's mean; he's snapping because he's threatened.

 

I am a dog lover. I was raised with an inside "big" dog and I've always had at least 1 dog while ds was growing up. I know this is emotional, but emotions really don't make good decisions. KWIM? I suggest you calmly and rationally weigh what you've learned on this board and move forward accordingly. Of course, that's why you posted here, right?:D

 

ETA: We currently have 3 dogs. One will try her best to stay away from toddlers; if they get her cornered she will growl and move away. We usually keep her away from toddlers or teach them to throw her toy for her. The other 2 dogs are fine. You can pull their ears & tail, step on them. They have never growled or nipped at any person ever. The first is purebred and the others are muts. In my opinion, pure breds are just too temperamental!

Edited August 11, 2010 by Cheryl in NM

[mo2]

And someone asked specifically where the dog nipped...it was at the air I think, not the baby - just really near the baby. I was not aware that beagles are food aggressive.

 

 

 

I didn't read through all the responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating something that has already been said.

 

ALL animals have the potential to be food aggressive. Heck, I don't like it when the kids stick their hands in my food. :D

 

Also, I can't tell you how many times I have told my children, "You know, the dog could have easily bitten you (or the cat scratched you, whatever). He CHOSE not to." An air-nip is a warning. Of course the baby does not know enough to heed that warning. So your best bet is to keep the two apart until the baby is old enough to respect the dog's boundaries. If you don't think you can do this, then I would get rid of the dog. We love our pets, but not as much as we love our children.

[hornblower]

And your dog did not nip. He air snapped. If he had bitten, there would have been contact with skin. Your dog showed amazing SELF control. Good boy!

 

 

Dogs are not all Lassie.

 

Dogs growl, and dogs air snap & sometimes, dogs bite. A dog bite =/= aggressive dog.

 

Let me repeat - a dog bite =/= aggressive dog

 

A dog who growls or air snaps is not an aggressive dog - not on the basis of that evidence alone. You need to look at a much, much larger picture.

 

 

That's like saying the 3yo who pushed her brother & he fell down & sprained his wrist is aggressive. Or the 2yo who repeatedly bit one of my toddlers on playdates. Also not an aggressive child.

 

These kids were communicating something & where things went wrong is

a) kids don't fully understand yet that this is not the preferred communication method

b) kids were so frustrated with other communication methods not working that they resorted to the one that does sort of work.

 

I'm framing this in the context of toddlers b/e most dogs are pretty much like toddlers & we seem to be better at understanding toddlers & not labelling them.

 

 

I grew up with dogs, & yeah, I've been bitten. Our foxterrier bit everyone in our family several times. Nobody ever said get rid of the dog. The question was: what did you do to the dog? And then the answer came. And then the response was: well, I guess that was a stupid thing to do. And it pretty much always was. The dog was not aggressive. She was being pushed beyond what was reasonable (& we just did not know any better but at least we did not ever threaten to get rid of her)

 

 

 

Your dog is resource guarding & he's unhappy about the crawling baby.

 

Supervise.

 

Only give food to the dog when he's in a crate or safely behind a baby gate in another room.

 

This has nothing with pack order or domainance.

 

American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) position statement on dominance:

 

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf

 

"Despite the fact that advances in behavior research have modified our understanding of social hierarchies in wolves, many animal trainers continue to base their training methods on outdated perceptions of dominance theory."

 

This pdf statement includes a good discussion of common dominance myths, and wolf & dog behaviour. It's a myth - this stuff. As I said in a previous thread, it's like the old belief that medical problems were caused by imbalance of the 4 humors and that leeches & cupping & blood letting were how you cured disease. It's the same level of misunderstanding.

 

 

You are dealing with a resource guarder.

 

Let me ask you this:

-is this dog walked on leash 2-3 times a day?

-have you been training this dog on your own or taking him to an obedience class?

-have you taught him any tricks?

-have you got him involved in tracking?

-does he got to parks & play with other dogs?

 

IOW - how rich is his life?

 

I suspect he's bored out of his mind. The chew treats become the only important thing in your life when you have little else to look forward to.

 

Here's what you need:

 

MINE! A practical guide to resource guarding in dogs by Jean Donaldson

http://www.amazon.com/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281537874&sr=8-1

 

& here is an article which explains how a dog owner overcame resource guarding with her golden (a golden who growls??? Kill it shrieks the chorus! :glare:)

 

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002b/objectguarding.htm

 

The MINE! book is $10 and obviously goes into much more detail than this article but this is the same idea.

 

Is your dog worth $10 and some time to fix or are you going to dump or euthenize?

 

The phrase - 'the dog will be gone' or 'we had to get rid of' are such vague terms.

 

Let's talk reality: either you arrange to have the dog killed, or the shelter will kill it for you, OR - small chance a private adopter will take the dog off your hands, OR a broker posing as a private adopter will take it off your hands & sell it to a testing lab (they LOVE beagles in animal testing labs!) OR......& it's a very small tiny chance 'or', a rescue will step forward and someone will foster the dog & rehab it & spend a lot of time and our own money to repair YOUR dog & give it a "happy ever after" home. But that's a very small OR. There are plenty of dogs for rescues to work with, they don't need another one with issues.

 

This very tired foster & rehabber hopes that YOU will deal with it. Do the right thing.

 

 

[I talk to the trees]

She does have a crate, and throwing the bone in there during the day is an option. Then do it.

 

I can't even get my dog to lay down...she knows the command, she's just not interested. "Not interested" is not an option when training dogs. Sounds to me like you're not interested in putting forth the effort to train her.

 

The baby can quickly end up next to the dog...Not if one or the other is "contained" in a crate or gated room or playpen.

 

A few people have suggested a trainer. That's not an option b/c of money.There are plenty of books at your local library on dog training to check out free of charge.

 

So how do I establish the baby's order in the pack? You don't. You have to be willing to keep them apart until baby is past the spastic, dog-frightening age (really until they are old enough to command the dog).

 

It seems to me that what you are looking for is the go-ahead to get rid of the animal. (You did mention that you don't like the dog.) If you truly aren't willing to take the time and effort to make the situation work, at least contact a beagle rescue. It would be a shame for her to be put down when she could make someone a good companion.

 

 

Ah.....looks like while I was typing, Hornblower finally chimed in. Ditto what she said.

[smrtmama]

And your dog did not nip. He air snapped. If he had bitten, there would have been contact with skin. Your dog showed amazing SELF control. Good boy!

 

 

Dogs are not all Lassie.

 

Dogs growl, and dogs air snap & sometimes, dogs bite. A dog bite =/= aggressive dog.

 

Let me repeat - a dog bite =/= aggressive dog

 

A dog who growls or air snaps is not an aggressive dog - not on the basis of that evidence alone. You need to look at a much, much larger picture.

 

 

That's like saying the 3yo who pushed her brother & he fell down & sprained his wrist is aggressive. Or the 2yo who repeatedly bit one of my toddlers on playdates. Also not an aggressive child.

 

These kids were communicating something & where things went wrong is

a) kids don't fully understand yet that this is not the preferred communication method

b) kids were so frustrated with other communication methods not working that they resorted to the one that does sort of work.

 

I'm framing this in the context of toddlers b/e most dogs are pretty much like toddlers & we seem to be better at understanding toddlers & not labelling them.

 

 

I grew up with dogs, & yeah, I've been bitten. Our foxterrier bit everyone in our family several times. Nobody ever said get rid of the dog. The question was: what did you do to the dog? And then the answer came. And then the response was: well, I guess that was a stupid thing to do. And it pretty much always was. The dog was not aggressive. She was being pushed beyond what was reasonable (& we just did not know any better but at least we did not ever threaten to get rid of her)

 

 

 

Your dog is resource guarding & he's unhappy about the crawling baby.

 

Supervise.

 

Only give food to the dog when he's in a crate or safely behind a baby gate in another room.

 

This has nothing with pack order or domainance.

 

American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) position statement on dominance:

 

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf

 

"Despite the fact that advances in behavior research have modified our understanding of social hierarchies in wolves, many animal trainers continue to base their training methods on outdated perceptions of dominance theory."

 

This pdf statement includes a good discussion of common dominance myths, and wolf & dog behaviour. It's a myth - this stuff. As I said in a previous thread, it's like the old belief that medical problems were caused by imbalance of the 4 humors and that leeches & cupping & blood letting were how you cured disease. It's the same level of misunderstanding.

 

 

You are dealing with a resource guarder.

 

Let me ask you this:

-is this dog walked on leash 2-3 times a day?

-have you been training this dog on your own or taking him to an obedience class?

-have you taught him any tricks?

-have you got him involved in tracking?

-does he got to parks & play with other dogs?

 

IOW - how rich is his life?

 

I suspect he's bored out of his mind. The chew treats become the only important thing in your life when you have little else to look forward to.

 

Here's what you need:

 

MINE! A practical guide to resource guarding in dogs by Jean Donaldson

http://www.amazon.com/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281537874&sr=8-1

 

& here is an article which explains how a dog owner overcame resource guarding with her golden (a golden who growls??? Kill it shrieks the chorus! :glare:)

 

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002b/objectguarding.htm

 

The MINE! book is $10 and obviously goes into much more detail than this article but this is the same idea.

 

Is your dog worth $10 and some time to fix or are you going to dump or euthenize?

 

The phrase - 'the dog will be gone' or 'we had to get rid of' are such vague terms.

 

Let's talk reality: either you arrange to have the dog killed, or the shelter will kill it for you, OR - small chance a private adopter will take the dog off your hands, OR a broker posing as a private adopter will take it off your hands & sell it to a testing lab (they LOVE beagles in animal testing labs!) OR......& it's a very small tiny chance 'or', a rescue will step forward and someone will foster the dog & rehab it & spend a lot of time and our own money to repair YOUR dog & give it a "happy ever after" home. But that's a very small OR. There are plenty of dogs for rescues to work with, they don't need another one with issues.

 

This very tired foster & rehabber hopes that YOU will deal with it. Do the right thing.

 

 

 

Thank you! I was going to "unpack" my comment as the OP requested, but then I realized you could do it much more neatly and precisely than I could!

[Lolly]

I grew up with dogs, & yeah, I've been bitten. Our foxterrier bit everyone in our family several times. Nobody ever said get rid of the dog. The question was: what did you do to the dog? And then the answer came. And then the response was: well, I guess that was a stupid thing to do. [/left]

 

Got to disagree here. A dog who thinks it is okay, and multiple bites indicates this, to bite humans should be put down. Just because your family found this to be an acceptable behavior does NOT make it so. A dog that you have to constantly be on guard with your behavior is not a dog that should be in a human family situation. While I love dogs, I would never endanger a human in favor of a dog.

[gingersmom]

Got to disagree here. A dog who thinks it is okay, and multiple bites indicates this, to bite humans should be put down. Just because your family found this to be an acceptable behavior does NOT make it so. A dog that you have to constantly be on guard with your behavior is not a dog that should be in a human family situation. While I love dogs, I would never endanger a human in favor of a dog.

 

:iagree:

[hornblower]

Got to disagree here. A dog who thinks it is okay, and multiple bites indicates this, to bite humans should be put down. Just because your family found this to be an acceptable behavior does NOT make it so. A dog that you have to constantly be on guard with your behavior is not a dog that should be in a human family situation. While I love dogs, I would never endanger a human in favor of a dog.

 

Lolly - I don't really find it acceptable behaviour, any more than I found the 2yo who bit my kid over & over & over again behaving acceptably.

 

IF I had known then what I know now, our foxie would not have bitten any of us. But I was a little kid. She was always provoked, and always seriously provoked before she bit. It was really our behaviour which was unacceptable.

 

I think these zero tolerance policies are misguided and are really hurting dogs. People are now expecting every pet to be a mix of Lassie & mellow labrador guide dog & some cartoon creation that totally belies what dogs ARE.

 

I would not tolerate a truly aggressive dog. Let me be clear on this. And I work with a rescue who has made the decision (after assessments by certified animal behaviorists) to put dogs to sleep because their brain wiring was just wrong & they were large & unamanageable & dangerous.

 

 

But there was a time when people accepted that dogs sometimes bit, and certainly might growl or air snap & if the reason was pretty clear, it was not a big deal. Out of the blue, psychotic fits are a problem, but a dog who bit me while I was in its yard? Well, what the heck was I expecting - would be the comment from both my parents & the dog owner. Yes, I was not only bit by my own dog but by someone else's dog too.... :) that one was a serial biter too & nailed me in the back of the calf. I was about 6?

 

Our biting foxie lived until she was 15 & blind & deaf and still feisty. She was a true terrier, that gal.

 

It does make a difference too what size the dog is. It is not fair but I have much lower tolerances for posturing in large dogs than small dogs because obviously even a small snap can do more damage.

 

Btw, I was also bit by our old GSD when I was a teen when his back gave out & I needed to carry him to the car. He was in such pain & he lashed out & bit & he felt awful; you could tell he was appalled at what he'd done, poor guy. I still have that scar on my finger . He didn't last long, not because of biting but because his spine was broken.

[mo2]

Got to disagree here. A dog who thinks it is okay, and multiple bites indicates this, to bite humans should be put down. Just because your family found this to be an acceptable behavior does NOT make it so. A dog that you have to constantly be on guard with your behavior is not a dog that should be in a human family situation. While I love dogs, I would never endanger a human in favor of a dog.

 

And I have to disagree here. Dogs have limited ways to communicate. If someone cannot understand their communication (in the case of babies) or does not respect their communication (in the case of older children and adults), dogs resort to biting, which everyone can understand.

 

I think that, if one is willing to put forth the effort, the OP's situation can be dealt with. The problem is going to be if she is not willing to put in the effort, in which case, perhaps a new home should be found for the dog.

[cin]

I know 2 little girls (different times, different dogs) who were playing with a 'very friendly dog' who ended up in the ER with many stitches and a life long scarred face. I'd get rid of the dog.

 

This is my concern. Who knows when the dog will 'snap' or if it ever will? Who wants to take that chance with a baby. Most little girls (and I don't know the exact age or size) are MUCH bigger than a baby. And much more damage can be done to a baby.

 

For the record, I am a diehard dog person. My dog snapped at our 2nd daughter 2 times. Daughter was almost 2 yrs old, dog was 10. Dog was GONE. Our daughter was maybe 20 lbs, (at 6 yrs, she's only 40 lbs!) Dog was 50+ lbs. *IF* the dog had decided that snapping was not enough, she could easily have ripped the baby apart. And while I loved my dog, that was a chance I was just not willing to take. (Aside from the legal ramification, child endangerment, etc) I love my children more than my dog. And I AM a dog person. I cry when I see pictures of her, I am the weirdo who will stop you in the park while you're walking your dog and pet them, etc. But for me, it was a decision that took little thought.

[hornblower]

And I have to disagree here. Dogs have limited ways to communicate. If someone cannot understand their communication (in the case of babies) or does not respect their communication (in the case of older children and adults), dogs resort to biting, which everyone can understand.

 

Oh gad, to write so succinctly!

 

Bravo. ITA.

[Beth in OH]

 

Dogs are not all Lassie.

 

[/left]

 

"Lassie, Cleo, Rin Tin Tin and Toto don't show up in rescue. We don't get the elegantly coiffed, classically beautiful, completely trained, perfectly behaved dog. We get the leftovers. Dogs that other people have incompetently bred, inadequately socialized, ineffectively "trained," and badly treated."

 

This is a quote (original source unknown) from the site of the organization I foster for. I thought it might be relevant, not so much related to the original post topic, but because I suspect a lot of people might be following this conversation and might choose to adopt a dog in the future. It's just a reminder that when you take in a rehomed dog--whether from an owner or from a rescue, that dog comes with a history. There is a reason the dog needs a new home. Lassie's owners are probably not going to give her away because they are moving. When Lassie gets loose, she is returned because her owners had her microchipped or because they relentlessly check the local shelters, etc.

 

It is incredibly rewarding to take in a rescue dog. I am a complete advocate! Nonetheless, do so with your eyes open. Do your best to discover the dog's issues before you bring him home, and make sure they are things you are willing to work with. Even dogs from "nice" or "easy" breeds have issues. They are individuals with a past. Educate yourself and strategize ways to help your dog overcome his weaknesses. As hs'ers, we're generally pretty good at this kind of strategizing--we do it for our kids all the time.

 

Anyhow, thanks for indulging me in my unsolicited $.02. I've been a dog owner for a long time, but a foster for only a year. I have learned so much and found that I really enjoy helping these dogs prepare for their forever homes.

 

Beth

[sheryl]

Kelly, That's a tough one. But, your love and concern for your baby is more than the dog is the bottomline.

 

We've had 2 full blooded female yellow labs. The first one was our first baby and she was very gentle and lovey. I trained our first lab. I'd play with her, etc. I also would give her a bone and after a time take it from her. That may seem cruel, but I wanted to teach her that WE are in control, not her. She was the best lab ever. She complied.

 

 

Our 2nd lab is different. She's very smart, and loving in her own way. However, we didn't know, weren't told, until several years later that she was born alpha female. She has control issues. Last week our lab got an empty can of tuna out of the trash and took it downstairs to continue to gain from it what she could. She took it under my dd's play table. I went to get it and scold her and she "bore" teeth at me and growled.

 

So, all of this to say, that it "may" not be b/c your baby is a baby. I'd ask Soph the Vet what she thinks. I believe it may be their instinct kicking in combined with lack of attention or whatever else. I was actually afraid of my lab. That upset me that she would do that. She'll turn 7 years old this Oct and both labs we brought home from their dog-mom at 7 1/2 weeks of age.

 

Still I don't know fully what to make of it. You certainly don't want to give up too early on the dog, but your baby is more important and you wouldn't want him/her (don't remember) to incur a more serious wound.

 

Hard call...try Soph.