Homeschooling seems pointless to me lately.

[Wee Pip]

I know this is WTM and we’re all aiming to give our dc the best ed possible – so be gentle, please. I really am asking for help. Most subjects seem completely pointless to me and I wonder why we’re even spending the time on them. Most subjects fall into the same govt school trap: learn ‘em, forget ‘em, learn ‘em again the next year. There is no interest in learning it, and if there is no interest, there is no relevance. If there is no relevance, then it gets forgotten. It seems that if it was something that interested us, we’d want to learn it, we’d use it, apply it, and see the relevance in it. Because there is no relevance, there isn’t any real learning. Most topics would have relevance if we really desired to go in a certain direction (ex: I'm trying to learn computer programming because there are things I really desire to do with that knowledge). If we really liked a Science topic, we’d learn it and it would stick with us, and it would have relevance. Same with History. Spelling has always seemed counter-productive to me: memorize some words, pass the test, and then forget the words. Math is the only subject that I can see forcing it upon my dc knowing that someday it *will* have relevance (baking, shopping, etc.). There are a few other skills that seem important and relevant to teach, but those are the things dc really struggle and fight about: Writing, Typing, Math. (Both kids can read well and read for fun, so teaching reading also seems futile). For the past 2 years, we’ve just been going thru the motions of school, with me forcing these subjects on my kids and failing to see the relevance. I see the whole “learn, forget, relearn†process and wonder why we’re doing it. I feel like I’m just repeating the govt school experiment at home. I’ve tried implementing fun ways of learning these things – but the kids would rather have their workbooks so they can *just get it done* I only require about 2 hrs of school from each dc; anything after that feels too long. My almost-10yo prefers a list of things to do and wants to get up early and just get it done. The almost-8yo prefers to sleep in and drag things out as long as possible. Combining subjects with these 2 dynamics is impossible (oldest can finish everything before younger even finishes her breakfast, and she hates having to wait on anybody). So do I just keep going thru the motions – teaching these subjects that have no interest, no relevance, and hope that it all pays off someday? Or do I turn unschooler or something??? It seems like we need some structure for the day. That has been my #1 reason in teaching grammar, spelling, science, history, etc. is simply to keep some structure and give the kids busy-work. But it just seems like such a wasted reason. I could structure our day by having everyone clean the house, and then our house would be clean instead…LOL.

College - yes it is my goal for the kids. We are planning on starting with community college. I've seen unschoolers with less education than my kids get into comm college and do excellent. So why bother with academics, anyway? Every day I'm asking myself, why are we doing this?

Sigh. It's like I'm going thru a homeschool mid-life crisis. Help me?

[KrissiK]

First off...:grouphug: I'm sorry! You seem a little burned out. Secondly, I think it depends on how you view the purpose of education. Do we educate our children strictly for utilitarian purposes - so they have the tools to get by in this world? If so, then everything must be obviously relevant. But, if our purpose is to train the mind... then everything changes. Remember "Karate Kid"? The original? Poor kid had no idea why he had to wash and wax all those cars and paint that fence, but in the end, he was trained, not only in body but in mind and spirit, which is what his counterparts in that karate school were not. Kids in PS are trained to be good citizens, but me thinks the purpose of a Classical Education is to train our children to think - to give them a breadth and depth of education, an understanding of the human condition, how people acted and thought thousands of years ago and how that impacts us today. Because it does impact us today. The Magna Carta has relevance today, as does the reasons for the fall of Rome. What do they say, Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[mommyagain]

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm so sorry!:grouphug::grouphug:

Your kids are still young. Unschooling seems like an extreme response, but how about taking a year and do some interest-led unit studies? Let the kids choose what they are interested in and follow some rabbit trails. They'll retain more and then if you want you could always return to WTM recommendations and it will not damage your kids :)!

 

Praying you'll find some peace and inspiration!!!

[dhudson]

Your kids are still fairly young and still in the "grammar" stage where information is often just that, information or data. I have seen that switch as my kids are getting into more of the logic stage where they are starting to make major connections with that data. For instance, my dd made the connection recently that one of the reasons the American revolution worked was because of the extraordinary way George Washington gave up power. We had finished SOTW4 and had seen how many Revolutions failed over and over again and became dictatorships. This led to a great discussion on leadership and the quote "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." which then led to a discussion on how we could handle power and leadership like George Washington. All 3 of my kids were fully involved in this discussion and we talked about character, true leadership and our role in government. It was great! But it only happened because we plugged in the data during the grammar stage.

 

Stay the course! It will work out but in the meantime maybe take a good, long break and just play. We all need that now and again.

[claire up north]

I only have time for a quick reply, but let me start off by reassuring you that the feelings you have are actually positive in that they are forcing you to assess your educational approach and see how that fits in with your goals. This is something that is sometimes overlooked in the desire to "get through the book," and is a very worthwhile topic to spend some time considering.

 

I have several thoughts (again, quickly):

 

1. Your kids are very young. The oldest is in 3rd grade, right? That means that they aren't really learning much "meaty" stuff yet; they're still focusing on the basics. It's hard to see how learning a smidge of this and a smattering of that adds up to learning that's worthwhile, but it does. You are laying the foundation now for all the connections that your children will make as they get older.

 

2. You might want to try some project based goals. I did this with my boys recently. I sat down with them and had them come up with a few goals that they'd like to accomplish by Christmas. They included things like Learn to Mow the Lawn; Complete 5 whittling projects; Watch West Side Story; memorize 3 speeches; etc. Some goals were "academic," but some were more "enrichment" (just as important, IMHO.)

 

3. You might want to let your kids pick a topic and then just study the heck out of it for a few weeks or months. Bonsai trees? Native Americans? Ancient Egypt? Abstract art? Ecosystem of a lake? Organic farming? Home maintenance? Study it from different angles: projects, books, movies, field trips, etc.

 

Last thought before I run: I would be concerned by the preference for workbooks and the "just getting it done" mentality. This does not sound like your children are loving learning. It sounds like they are rushing through school to get on with the rest of their lives. To me, this would cause me to consider if (1) the work is way too easy or (2) the work is Boring with a capital B.

 

Sorry I can't stay and write more, but I will check back in on this thread this afternoon.

 

good luck!

[Kathie in VA]

I think I'm going to work on answering your post to help myself as well as you. I too find myself telling them to 'get it done'. But then again my kids are VERY spacy and can take forever to get work done that they DO understand. So now I have 2 in high school and 'getting it done' is VERY important... thus my move to outside classes. For some reason they 'get done' work for others but work for mom tends to slack.

 

Now wanting the interest to show in their work.... that does seem to come and go and go and peak in and go. Working just from their interest doesn't work so well either because if I find a great book on something they like (biology, inventions, dragons, etc) will only temp me to incorporate the other subjects like writing, outlining, grammar, math. Yep it's on a topic of interest but it also kills the fun.

 

So where's the balance? Not sure. So far here's what's helping here. Some of my kids know what they want to major in at College so we look at what it will take to get there. When they see that they won't get what they want at their current path, it helps. Now I'm working on showing the connections with their other subjects to their interest to help spread that interest. Teens seem to have lots of opinions. So for the one interested in Biology I should find articles on biology that might spike my dc's justice radar and then perhaps she'll be interested in researching a response, outlining data, discussing issues and perhaps writing about her findings/opinions.

 

Younger kids are easier. I'm re-considering RightStart math for my 5yog as that has less worksheets to 'get done' and more games used to re-inforce learning the facts. I'm going to look into lapbooks because my 10yo 5th grader might really like that instead of just narrations.

 

Thanks for your post, responding is helping me to set up next year in a better way. Hopefully I too will get to back off the, "just get it done" comments!

[specialmama]

Unschooling seems like a good fit for you. Mary Pride did this with her kids and wrote several books about it. I always loved her approach, sigh. I have one kid that would have been okay with unschooling. The other would never pick up a book or write anything.

 

:iagree: Don't feel guilty! There are different learning styles, teaching styles and philosophies of education for a reason! Even though this is a WTM forum, most of us here are eclectic to some degree. I have a strong bent toward unschooling and unit studies, but a very deep respect for classical ed. So I march to the tune of my own drummer: we do grammar and logic and socratic discussions (just beginning) but it is SO easy for me to unschool science and art and even take a few weeks off to follow our interests. Please don't feel bad! I think the first goal of any homeschool should be family unity and good character. If that's not happening, then IMO there is no use in opening a book at all until it's all sorted out; and you can't rush that, so be ready to take months off just exploring your relationships and developing unity and character. It is time not wasted! However, I have a strong feeling that you are going through this not because of lack of unity, but because you are truly feeling called to your own philosophy of education. Have you done the survey in Cathy Duffy's book, 100 Top Picks? It helps you figure out your style, philosophy, kids' learning styles, etc. I guess after all my rambling (sorry!) my words to you are: step out there, don't be afraid to be the leader in your homeschool, be the mother you should be, teaching what you should teach, with no remorse, and only the Lord to be accountable to. I'm rooting for you!

[Mynyel]

It sounds like you need a small break to recoup.

 

After that perhaps a objective review of what you are using and see if it fits your needs. Although I am a curriculum junkie by trade :) However it can be helpful in determining what your kids like!

 

We went through a period where my kids (esp. dd12) fought me on math and Language Arts. Just fought me! It was despised! I have switched programs and it has gone a lot more smoothly.

 

If they like to read then get them books on things that interest them and have some educational value. I had a recent thread about book ideas and there are a lot out there!

 

One way to get them to do some things is to make a point of teaching them why they need it.

 

For instance have them write a letter to the President or the Govenor of your state. Then after they are done writing, read it out load to them. Ask them if it makes sense. When they say no you can explain that is why we need grammar and language arts, so that you can make things that make sense. It worked for my kids :)

[brownie]

If your kids were in ps they would have to learn all these subjects. Since you're homeschooling why not use the freedom to drop the 'pointless subjects'.

 

I often wonder why I bother to teach grammar, spelling and vocab in isolation. If your kids read, drop grammar and vocab for awhile and only require spelling for words they miss in their writing. I haven't quite got up the confidence to do this myself :)

 

History could become entirely reading since you say they like to read, as could science for now, or even videos. They are still young. My kids love listening to SOTW so personally we just do that and the mapwork.

 

That pretty much leaves math and writing and I don't worry about actually writing anything until 4th grade. I use WWE before then. Math - well they just have to do it. Practice makes perfect and it is a springboard to a profitable career in science or engineering later. But dh shows them how important math is everyday by having them calculate things in 'real life'. Hopefully someday the message will sink in! Brownie

[JennW in SoCal]

I hope you are taking a long summer off from anything that resembles school. You certainly deserve a break and have earned time to explore your own interests and to have fun just being mom.

 

I have a couple of ideas that might help you. I totally agree with you that it is ridiculous for us homeschoolers to fall into that traditional school trap of learn and forget. There is a middle ground between unschooling and the WTM, it is a happy place and can work quite well -- I've been hanging out in that middle ground for 11 years now :D

 

To me, there are two parts to an education. There are the skills -- math, writing, and eventually logical thinking, and there is the broad undefinable swath of general knowledge. Until my kids were middle schoolers, even high schoolers, literature, history and science were subjects which we basically unschooled. Since we all enjoyed reading, watching documentaries, and visiting museums, my kids just absorbed all kinds of information. If a subject really interested them, they could go as deeply as they wanted. They made connections, put events into chronological order with having been introduced to it in a purely linear fashion. It has made for 2 very well rounded and interesting young men.

 

For the skills, I followed the ideas of the WTM for writing with dictation, copywork, and narrations. Grammar and spelling wound up mostly being tackled through writing. It is nuts that they'd do perfectly on their worksheets but not apply those lessons to their writing, so I'd rather address the issues in their writing. I would use their reading material for these writing assignments, and even through high school I endeavor to organize their courses around their interests.

 

Math was just math, although I kept them interested with games whether computer games or those fun math workbooks from the Highlights company. We also did math on a giant white board -- those colorful markers made it stick better for some reason.

 

As to scheduling the day. I'd do a checklist of the skills part of schooling for each day, then made a point of having a read aloud time. This is basically how I do high school!

 

One final idea. After you've had a chance to "detox" from being so burned out, think about what your ultimate goal is and think about what your philosophy of education is. I wrote mine out back when my kids were little, and it was what I just described -- the unschooly part that learning happens all the time (and happens best when you are interested) but that there are necessary skills to master.

 

Hope something here helps, and I hope you do get to recharge over the summer.

[coffeefreak]

Time to UNSCHOOL!!!!

:grouphug:

 

Seriously, we've dipped our toes in unschooling and loved it. Take your kids to the library and let them check out books on whatever subject they want. Go to museums, the zoo etc. If you feel you need a curriculum, look at FIAR or something like it where you read good literature, and incorporate all the subjects into that one book. Do a unit study on a topic your children love! Ask them what they want to study, and have them help you plan it!:001_smile:

 

Another thing that might lift your spirits is to read Susan Schaffer McCauley's "For the Children's Sake." When I get too regimented, or textbooky, I recall her book and it relaxes me.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[catz]

:iagree: Don't feel guilty! There are different learning styles, teaching styles and philosophies of education for a reason! Even though this is a WTM forum, most of us here are eclectic to some degree. I have a strong bent toward unschooling and unit studies, but a very deep respect for classical ed. So I march to the tune of my own drummer: we do grammar and logic and socratic discussions (just beginning) but it is SO easy for me to unschool science and art and even take a few weeks off to follow our interests. Please don't feel bad! I think the first goal of any homeschool should be family unity and good character. If that's not happening, then IMO there is no use in opening a book at all until it's all sorted out; and you can't rush that, so be ready to take months off just exploring your relationships and developing unity and character. It is time not wasted!

 

:iagree: We have and own plenty of curriculum and just lots and lots of books over here. But our first priority is love of learning. If the curric hits a lull or if there is good weather or fun field trips available, we jump on that. I shoot to do some exposure for history or science 1-2X per week. If that's in the form of reading a library book or visiting our history museum, I'm fine with that! It's about creating excited learners and not just getting through a particular curriculum! I do have my kids read and write every school day. But that can be in any form at all. The only thing we do with regularity is math. And if we switch to games for a few days, well that's all good too.

 

If it isn't working for you, don't be afraid to just take some time off to re-evaluate. We take the summer off from any regular curric just to read, be outside, and learn holistically. Sometimes big leaps take place during these periods too.

[bugs]

After you've taken your much needed break :D it sounds to me that you should re-assess your educational goals. What attracted you to TWTM? Are those points still valid? If not, look into other methods. Right now it seems you are attracted to the unschooling philosophy. As other posters advised, why not give it a try?

 

Something else to consider: if mom isn't "digging it" I doubt the kids will. Children pick up on our feeling quite well.

[Karen in CO]

:grouphug: Oh dearie. You sound burned out. I'd prescribe you take some serious time off. Enjoy your kids for a while. Spend some time doing nature studies and natural learning. Reconnect with that love of learning. Play some board games. Read some stories. Relax. I really advocate relaxing with young children. They have such a natural love of learning that they can sponge up so much from great stories, imaginative play and experiences.

 

I've been where you are - several times even though I've graduated one. Right now, I'm trying to figure out what education means to me. What are my goals? Why am I doing this? What does it mean to be an eduated person? These are my questions and challenges now. I seem to loose my way every year or so.

 

Right now I am working on my kids having good habits, good imaginations and being able to enjoy and tell good stories. It is the best I can do right now.

 

We are doing daily math and daily Japanese. We are reading fairy tales and hero stories. They spend the rest of the day finding ways to entertain themselves - boredom is great for their imagination. They play outside, do lots of art and create elaborate games. We go for long walks in the evening. This is my plan for the rest of summer.

 

For school next year, I sat down with each of them and asked them what they most want to know about or spend time with then created a year based on that then reviewed the plans with them before buying the material. The older wants to spend the year learning as a Roman girl would so she is going to focus on art, music, handcrafts and poetry just like a Roman girl would. We are studying math and using Classical Writing but she agreed that Roman girls would need to know those things. We're also adding in some Roman history, art and science. I left out everything else. Who says that learning to spin and weave is not the best way to spend the fourth grade year? I think our priorities are just right. The younger wanted to learn to read and learn about animals and do lots of art. So we are reading lots of stories, studying animals and art. On top of that, we're continuing math and I used her favorite chapter book for copywork.

 

I remember reading an essay by some mathematician discussing the importance of imagination. He said essentailly that if an adult has no imagination, he cannot invent solutions to problems that haven't been solved before or invent problems that haven't been thought of before because it takes an imagination to think outside of the known limitations. I want my children to grow into people that have the ability to not only reason logically, but to reason outside of the limits that constrain others.

 

I'll leave you with a few of my favorite quotes about fairy tales to inspire you.

 

 

"Think what you would have been now, if instead of being fed with tales and old wives' fables in childhood, you had been crammed with geography and natural history!"

Charles Lamb to Samuel Coleridge

October 23, 1802

 

 

 

 

"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales."

 

 

 

 

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking."

~Albert Einstein~

Scientist

(1879-1955)

 

 

Edited July 1, 2010 by Karen in CO

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

:iagree: Don't feel guilty! There are different learning styles, teaching styles and philosophies of education for a reason! Even though this is a WTM forum, most of us here are eclectic to some degree. I have a strong bent toward unschooling and unit studies, but a very deep respect for classical ed. So I march to the tune of my own drummer: we do grammar and logic and socratic discussions (just beginning) but it is SO easy for me to unschool science and art and even take a few weeks off to follow our interests. Please don't feel bad! I think the first goal of any homeschool should be family unity and good character. If that's not happening, then IMO there is no use in opening a book at all until it's all sorted out; and you can't rush that, so be ready to take months off just exploring your relationships and developing unity and character. It is time not wasted! However, I have a strong feeling that you are going through this not because of lack of unity, but because you are truly feeling called to your own philosophy of education. Have you done the survey in Cathy Duffy's book, 100 Top Picks? It helps you figure out your style, philosophy, kids' learning styles, etc. I guess after all my rambling (sorry!) my words to you are: step out there, don't be afraid to be the leader in your homeschool, be the mother you should be, teaching what you should teach, with no remorse, and only the Lord to be accountable to. I'm rooting for you!

 

:iagree:

[momto2Cs]

Right now I am working on my kids having good habits, good imaginations and being able to enjoy and tell good stories. It is the best I can do right now.

 

We are doing daily math and daily Japanese. We are reading fairy tales and hero stories. They spend the rest of the day finding ways to entertain themselves - boredom is great for their imagination. They play outside, do lots of art and create elaborate games. We go for long walks in the evening. This is my plan for the rest of summer.

 

For school next year, I sat down with each of them and asked them what they most want to know about or spend time with then created a year based on that then reviewed the plans with them before buying the material.

 

What a great idea! I too find myself leaning toward a more child-led education, and that sounds like an excellent compromise between "schooling" and allowing them to form their own educations. I also think your summer seems very balanced!

 

I wonder what my rising 4th grader would choose for a year of study....:001_huh:

 

To the original poster, I think a lot of the people here are right on. Take a break. Breathe. Refocus and decide what you want for your children, and how to include their interests in that. What is working about your current approach, and what isn't? How do you envision homeschooling for your family, and what goals can you set to get there?

 

I think sometimes about homeschooling year round, but then I realize I need the break as much as they do, so I can step back and look at where I want to go.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Take a step back, all of you, and find the spirit of these subjects. Dump the texts; find some living books. Laugh at funny grammar errors. Gasp at amazing math ideas. There is a joy to studying, a pleasure in learning for it's own sake, a value to math and English that we can access every moment we are solving problems or writing sentences. If you're not feeling it, find books by someone who is, and read them.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's great that you're thinking about this. I think you need to consider what the big picture is, and whether it's the big picture that you want. Is there really a good reason to be trying to teach all this little stuff? Only if it's going to lay a foundation for where you want to end up--having a well-educated child.

 

The early years are for exploration and familiarity, and for laying the groundwork for later, more sophisticated learning. WTM does this by teaching rules and memorization at an age where kids are uniquely capable of learning that way. Another approach might be to cover a lot of subject areas in considerable experiences--unit studies about science, natural history, archeology, or history, that include writing, drawing, experiences, crafts, art, field trips, hands on work of many kinds, etc. That approach uses multiple modalities to improve retention. Another approach might be to let the children's interests guide your studies--that's more like unschooling, and postulates that retention is improved by fascination.

 

This is your chance to consider whether the WTM approach is the best one for your family, bearing in mind that the groundwork that is being laid is in support of the same goal no matter which of these approaches you use.

 

I, personally, came down in favor of WTM because I distinctly remember losing my ability to memorize effectively around 6th grade, and picking up the ability to remember logic patterns very well at that same time. I wanted DD to learn by memorization before she lost that easy capability. I also chose WTM because I love literature and history, and organizing them together while teaching history like a story and from an early age was what I wanted to do anyway. And lastly, I chose WTM because I happen to have a child who would NEVER have learned any skills content if I had not forced the issue; unschooling theory notwithstanding, she would have resisted that learning and then concluded that she was dumb because she didn't know math or writing or reading. This one really did NEED to be taught.

 

But I also know that there are other kinds of children out there, and that unschooling and unit studies work great for some. And we did some great unit studies along the way, more as dessert, though, than as our primary dinner. And when DD developed a strong interest in anything I supported her and looked for opportunities to deepen that learning for her as well.

 

You have an opportunity to develop your own philosophy of homeschooling for your particular family. This is very exciting! My advice to you is to develop your own vision, and then decide how to accomplish it. Go for it!

[homeschoolally]

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm so sorry!:grouphug::grouphug:

Your kids are still young. Unschooling seems like an extreme response, but how about taking a year and do some interest-led unit studies? Let the kids choose what they are interested in and follow some rabbit trails. They'll retain more and then if you want you could always return to WTM recommendations and it will not damage your kids :)!

 

Praying you'll find some peace and inspiration!!!

 

:iagree: Your kids are young enough that you can afford to take break! Have you read The Successful Homeschool Family Handbook by the Moores? That might be a good one to look at in your situation. It encourages families to relax in the early years. You can always pick up WTM later!

[Plink]

You may want to look into some other styles of homeschooling. It isn't all or nothing - there are many styles that fit between the unschooling and classical ends of the spectrum. Unit studies, for example, may be a good fit for your family, and you could retain your classical approach to math. (or your choice could be the exact opposite) There are lots of combinations and options.

 

Try listening to some of the podcasts listed under the "homeschool styles" heading at this site. You may just discover a perfect fit.

[Penny]

Math is the only subject that I can see forcing it upon my dc knowing that someday it *will* have relevance (baking, shopping, etc.). There are a few other skills that seem important and relevant to teach, but those are the things dc really struggle and fight about: Writing, Typing, Math.

 

 

Do we want to limit our children to the limitations we have put on ourself? For example, because I don't know enough about history and science to be able to contribute to relavent issues, do I want my children to be so limited? Because I don't know science in a meaningful way, do I want that for my children? If all I use math for is baking and shopping, does that mean my children only need to go through arithmetic? I personally feel very cheated with regards to my own education, yet I'm only a stay at home mom who does the cooking and the laundry. My ps education more than adequately prepared me for that!

 

If we know exactly what are children are going to do with their lives, exactly what they want as hobbies, exactly what reading level/vocabulary they will need to read what they want/need, exactly how deeply they will investigate spirituality (many diciplines are needed here including history, science, high level reading/vocabulary), then we could limit their education without future regrets. There are homeschooled children who are very angry with their parents for not educating them and limiting their options. My children do like certain subjects and gravitate towards those. However, even with these, and in all the other subjects, when it comes down to hard work, they don't want to do it. I make them because I believe if they do not do the work, they will regret it later. How many people have you met who wished they had not been so well educated?

[Barry Goldwater]

Most subjects fall into the same govt school trap: learn ‘em, forget ‘em, learn ‘em again the next year. There is no interest in learning it, and if there is no interest, there is no relevance. If there is no relevance, then it gets forgotten. It seems that if it was something that interested us, we’d want to learn it, we’d use it, apply it, and see the relevance in it. Because there is no relevance, there isn’t any real learning. Most topics would have relevance if we really desired to go in a certain direction

:iagree:

 

IMHO and based on some historical reading I've done, PS / Statist schools are DESIGNED to do this...so break the mold!!

 

I like the 'unschooling' approach suggested above, for a sustained period of time. I would take a 6-month break from any formalized curricula.

 

I would look at 5 in a row. We used very successfully at that age group.

http://www.fiarhq.com/

 

Or design your own curriculum...for example, as Columbus Day approaches, do a history study on the spice trade between Europe and India, lead into a bit on oceanic navigation, geography, nutritional issues (scurvey anyone?), maritime law, geopolitical issues of that era...you can blend subjects around relevant and interesting topics. This is especially valuable with math...how much more interesting could calculus be, once you recognize that it's the math we used to get to the moon, or to fire a projectile 1000 yards or more (pumpkin trebuchet!)

 

Also, I've heard more than one homeschool veteran say, "if I did it over again, all I'd do is read, play games and do puzzles with my DCs till they were at least 8 years old." I think there is a lot of wisdom in this.

 

Your kids are plenty young to play around with this...I'm sure you can discover/re-discover a love for learning and develop a means to make things relevant again.

 

Kudos to you for recognizing and desiring to fix this issue!!!!!!!!!:)

[SophiaH]

Have you looked into The Latin Centered Curriculum? In reading your post, that's the first thing that popped into my mind. If you are not comfortable with jumping directly into something like unschooling, I think the approach of LCC might address many of your issues. The whole idea of "multum non multa"--much not many--does a lot to take off the burden of many extraneous subjects. Here's an article entitled, "Multum Non Multa" written by Drew Campbell, the author of LCC (and one-time WTM frequenter). In short, daily you're doing skill subjects--Latin, math, composition. Once a week, you're doing content subjects--Religion, History, Lit, Science, Geography. Even if you don't implement LCC totally, reading the book might give you the freedom to drop some things.

 

Another idea is using a loop schedule. I switched to a loop schedule for the last nine weeks of our year and it really helped to prioritize my subjects (I had three tiers of importance, with two loops). You can read about how I did it here, if you're interested. It allowed all those little subjects to still get done, but in their place.

 

Good luck! :grouphug:

Edited July 2, 2010 by mommahawk

[Just Robyn]

I have to say I completely agree with you. For me, though, those subjects that are really important, like language arts and math, are enough for me to see the value of homeschooling. I feel that a really good math and language arts education is enough to enable a child to learn anything they want in other areas as soon as they want to. I went to school k-12 here where we live now, and so I know first hand what the language arts is like in my area, and it isn't even close to what I want for my children. The math is fine, but I still believe I can give my children more than they would get in the public schools.

 

To me, especially at young ages, history and science should be fun - plenty of projects, experiments, games etc. If they don't remember most of what we go over then I don't see that as a problem. It was fun and they were exposed to it. If it interests them they will read more about it and then they will probably retain more. If it doesn't interest them enough for them to do more on their own... oh well, again, it was fun and they were exposed to it. This is in contrast to the public schools where they may get exposure, but it is much less fun and they are never given any choices in what they learn and never allowed to continue studying something they found interesting. When the class moves on, so do they.

[NanceXToo]

I agree with a lot of what you say!

 

Go ahead and unschool- seems like it would be a perfect fit for your family, and there are plenty of "successful" happy unschoolers out there!

[thowell]

Do we want to limit our children to the limitations we have put on ourself? For example, because I don't know enough about history and science to be able to contribute to relavent issues, do I want my children to be so limited? Because I don't know science in a meaningful way, do I want that for my children? If all I use math for is baking and shopping, does that mean my children only need to go through arithmetic? I personally feel very cheated with regards to my own education, yet I'm only a stay at home mom who does the cooking and the laundry. My ps education more than adequately prepared me for that!

 

If we know exactly what are children are going to do with their lives, exactly what they want as hobbies, exactly what reading level/vocabulary they will need to read what they want/need, exactly how deeply they will investigate spirituality (many diciplines are needed here including history, science, high level reading/vocabulary), then we could limit their education without future regrets. There are homeschooled children who are very angry with their parents for not educating them and limiting their options. My children do like certain subjects and gravitate towards those. However, even with these, and in all the other subjects, when it comes down to hard work, they don't want to do it. I make them because I believe if they do not do the work, they will regret it later. How many people have you met who wished they had not been so well educated?

 

 

I think that this is exactly how I do not want my children to feel. I am a stay at home mom with a PS education but I also have created a love for learning within myself and have read read read and read some more just so I could have the desired knowledge that I want. I am concerned with my children learning their math and other skill areas but I am more concerned with them developing a love for learning. I think when we love to learn we do retain information. Within our time of HS I am always looking for a way to create this love of learning in my children. We do not unschool but they do have a lot of say. I am using Konos and we have a plan BUT if they come across something that they are interested in we stay there until they have learned all they want. It is our responsibility as parents to educate our children even when they don't want to but I would like to think there is always a way to help them want to.

[woolybear]

I haven't read all the responses, so if I'm repeating, excuse me. The ones I did read were quite helpful. What I'm going to say may not directly speak to what you are saying, but I do think it's relevant.

 

It is about perspective. And goals. I have several goals for my dc education.

1) I want them to see learning as part of life, not something that just happens during certain times of the day or in "school."

 

2) I want them to want to learn things. Not always because it is fun, but because they are driven to by their own interests.

 

3) I want them to understand there are many ways to learn: through doing things, watching (either a live event or on dvd), by talking to someone who knows about it, by reading, in classes, by just jumping in and trying things, through the arts (not just learning about art through art, but many other subjects as well), etc. And I want them to be willing to go at a subject from many different approaches if possible.

 

4) I want them to start to take ownership of their learning and education. To make decisions about what to learn and then how to go about learning it. This is a long term goal. I do not ask them now, "What do you want to learn?" Though we have had similiar talks. But what I am talking about is a very gradual progression of my being in control of these things to their taking over.

 

5) I want them to know that learning can and should always be a part of life.

 

6) I want them to feel that school isn't all drudgery, but that there are some tasks we have to do for a long term goal. Knowing multiplication tables may not be fun, but it is SO useful.

 

I guess my point here is that whatever approach you are taking, perhaps you could look at this from another perspective. Not MY perspective, but think beyond just the goal of college and skills. Consider setting up "learning centers". Create a wonderful art/craft area. Set up a cozy reading nook. Buy cool science supplies. Maybe stick with the three Rs but then do fun stuff too. Tell them it's school, so they know. Then step back and let them use test tubes, scales, whatever, however they want without textbooks and see it as educational too(and don't tell them it's school.Tell them nothing. Or, it's just Life.) You can continue to do what you are doing, but learn from the unschoolers too. It can permeate your home and I bet the blend of structure and unschooling can create something new and wonderful.

 

Sorry for the long, long ramble. I am also sorry you are sounding burnt out. I have been there. I have also given my dc work that I felt like "what is the point?" Some of it may have a long term point. But some of it may not. Hey, what about considering Charlotte Mason? Short lessons, living books. I highly recommend this approach.

 

Hope some of this may be helpful. Homeschooling *should* have a point. I hope you can figure out what the point is for your family.:grouphug:

[In2why]

I am eclectic and a lot more relaxed than the studies outlined in TWTM. But I can't imagine unschooling while they are this young either. (although the option is there once they are older)

I think the best reason for "getting it done" is about making the connections. Like when you buy a certain car and all the sudden you see them everywhere, or find a new author and then notice that author on the shelves of the thrift shop. What you learn and experience might not always sink in at a bone level, but it is there enough that when they come across it again there is recognition and they can build on that.

[PeterPan]

Few things. One, you have a baby, had a challenging year, and are now burnt out. You should totally stop school for 3 months. Just totally stop. I know fall is coming in a few months. Stop anyway.

 

Two, you're confusing what you're doing with what WTM says. WTM never said to shove a LA curriculum whole down the throats of kids who don't need it. WTM never said every kid has to do spelling or else. OK, you could interpret it that way, but that's NOT what they mean, which anyone here will tell you.

 

Three, I think you're hitting a common wall in 4th grade, where The Dream and Reality collide. Your dream of homeschool was different from how it's turning out to be. You need to stop doing any form of school at all, stop researching, and stop overthinking for a bit, even just a week or two, so you can dissociate yourself from this. Then step back and ask who YOUR kids are. Stop being prejudiced about what you think you're supposed to be doing or how you THINK they're supposed to be doing things. Right now you're frustrated that you have a cd who wants to be efficient and independent. You need to shift your viewpoint and EMBRACE her for exactly who she is. Give the dc what she wants, let her get her work done, and get out of the way. That's the difference between your preconceived notion of what homeschooling was supposed to be and reality. And if the two kids are different, well you let them be different.

 

Four, you need to stop doing subjects your kids don't need. If you don't want to do typing now and they hate it, then why are you doing it??? If they don't need spelling, why are you doing it??? If you hate the BJU math (which I've used myself and can understand your feelings toward, both of love and hate at the same time), then DITCH IT!!! You sure have given yourself a complex about ditching things, a compulsion about some list you need to create. You don't HAVE to do any of those things. WTM doesn't say to, and none of us here say you have to. Your kids should read something, write something, and do some form of math. Doesn't matter how you accomplish any of those, and personally I'd pick methods that fit the kid, rather than trying so hard to integrate them or fit WTM. ;)

 

So take a break. Go to the park each day. Hire someone to clean your house. Drive to the beach, even if it's way far away, and don't come back for 3 or 4 days. Just disappear and ditch everything for a while. You'll feel much better, and then you can reapproach this stuff sanely. Personally, I didn't even feel human enough to tackle a decent amount of schoolwork till my ds was almost a year. I think you've guilt-tripped yourself quite a bit this year or felt guilty about not accomplishing as much as you wanted, and it has piled up. When you have a big gap between babies, it really messes with your routine and what you can accomplish. Nothing is the same, lol. Your kids are getting older in the meantime. Just accept them for where they are and start with a blank slate. Figure out how they each work best and what they would like to cover plus what you think they NEED to cover. It doesn't have to be more than that, honest. :)

[4littleones]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Don't be so hard on yourself. You said that the last two years you have been going through the motions. Well, correct me if I am wrong, but those two years you went through an eventful pregnancy and taking care of a precious baby. These were hard times for you emotionally and physically, don't discount their role and influence on your household.

 

You are probably divided in looking after the baby and the house and keeping your family going and being a teacher. It is really, a tall order.

 

I would say cut yourself some slack and chill out for a while until the baby is a bit older and you can flush the hormones out...

 

Until then, focus on the children as a mother, nurture them instead of trying to both nurture and teach... Focus on good attitude and obedience and character training in the context of everyday living without having the burden of school on top of that. There is plenty of time to focus on academics...

 

:grouphug: Hugs again. What I am saying comes from being a mom to 4 children in 6 years. These years were not easy... my youngest is 2 now and we can just starting to regroup and do some school. Before that was the 3Rs in the most haphazard way.

 

All the best!

[WishboneDawn]

Sigh. It's like I'm going thru a homeschool mid-life crisis. Help me?

 

Could it be you need a change in style? There have been times when my approach had to change. When radical unschooling seemed to lose it's relevence and I switched to an eclectic approach or when I needed to revisit unschooling.

 

I'll admit I'm not a WTM follower or an all-out classical homeschooler but could it be you just need to set WTM aside for awhile and explore a different way of homeschooling? Go read some John Holt and past issues of Life Learning magazine (free pdfs at their site) and get away from what you've been doing for awhile.

 

You may find you adopt some more unschooly methods and/or you come back to classical or more formal schooling more refreshed.

 

Bottom line, wonderful knowledgeable intelligent kids come from ALL kinds of homeschooling and as long as you keep passionate about it, whatever road you take, you won't ruin or shortchange your kids. You'll be ensuring that they are wonderful, knowledgable and intelligent as well. :)

[poodlemama]

You may want to take a look at URthemom.com --self-taught homeschool ideas using any curriculum.

[ourjourneys]

While you are not feeling well, take a rest... Take the children to the library to load up on their books. Write letters to friends and family. Just ditch the 'schooling' for a few weeks until you have a new perspective. I am wishing you the best.

[angela in ohio]

Sarah, You are soooo close to rounding the corner. Don't give up now. In a year or two, it will start coming together for your 9 yo. Connections will be made with all of the foundation that has been put down. You are entering an amazing, exhausting, exhilirating time in your homeschool! Don't let go now! :D That 9 yo, in just a few yars, will be the most interesting, fun, thought-provoking person you know!

 

If you want to explore more interest-led, relaxed learning, do it in history and science, but leave the core subjects as they are. That's how we do it for the elementary years, and it creates a nice blend.

[ourjourneys]

I agree with a lot of what you say!

 

Go ahead and unschool- seems like it would be a perfect fit for your family, and there are plenty of "successful" happy unschoolers out there!

 

You could at least just unschool for a few months so you can take care of yourself and the baby. I think the kids will remember this special time better...

[stripe]

I agree that you need a change of focus. Memorized things may be easily forgotten, but then they shouldn't be the cornerstone of the educational experience. I think it would be helpful to put things in context -- for example, bring history, science, and math "to life" instead of confining them to a dry workbook.

[EKS]

I know this is WTM and we’re all aiming to give our dc the best ed possible – so be gentle, please. I really am asking for help. Most subjects seem completely pointless to me and I wonder why we’re even spending the time on them. Most subjects fall into the same govt school trap: learn ‘em, forget ‘em, learn ‘em again the next year. There is no interest in learning it, and if there is no interest, there is no relevance. If there is no relevance, then it gets forgotten. It seems that if it was something that interested us, we’d want to learn it, we’d use it, apply it, and see the relevance in it. Because there is no relevance, there isn’t any real learning. Most topics would have relevance if we really desired to go in a certain direction (ex: I'm trying to learn computer programming because there are things I really desire to do with that knowledge). If we really liked a Science topic, we’d learn it and it would stick with us, and it would have relevance. Same with History. Spelling has always seemed counter-productive to me: memorize some words, pass the test, and then forget the words. Math is the only subject that I can see forcing it upon my dc knowing that someday it *will* have relevance (baking, shopping, etc.). There are a few other skills that seem important and relevant to teach, but those are the things dc really struggle and fight about: Writing, Typing, Math. (Both kids can read well and read for fun, so teaching reading also seems futile). For the past 2 years, we’ve just been going thru the motions of school, with me forcing these subjects on my kids and failing to see the relevance. I see the whole “learn, forget, relearn†process and wonder why we’re doing it. I feel like I’m just repeating the govt school experiment at home. I’ve tried implementing fun ways of learning these things – but the kids would rather have their workbooks so they can *just get it done* I only require about 2 hrs of school from each dc; anything after that feels too long. My almost-10yo prefers a list of things to do and wants to get up early and just get it done. The almost-8yo prefers to sleep in and drag things out as long as possible. Combining subjects with these 2 dynamics is impossible (oldest can finish everything before younger even finishes her breakfast, and she hates having to wait on anybody). So do I just keep going thru the motions – teaching these subjects that have no interest, no relevance, and hope that it all pays off someday? Or do I turn unschooler or something??? It seems like we need some structure for the day. That has been my #1 reason in teaching grammar, spelling, science, history, etc. is simply to keep some structure and give the kids busy-work. But it just seems like such a wasted reason. I could structure our day by having everyone clean the house, and then our house would be clean instead…LOL.

College - yes it is my goal for the kids. We are planning on starting with community college. I've seen unschoolers with less education than my kids get into comm college and do excellent. So why bother with academics, anyway? Every day I'm asking myself, why are we doing this?

Sigh. It's like I'm going thru a homeschool mid-life crisis. Help me?

 

A few things.

 

First, like other posters have mentioned, your children are young and so now would be a great time to experiment with other ways to homeschool (unschooling, unit studies, etc).

 

However, I do have a few observations, things that I've noticed about my own attitudes towards various topics or aspects of schooling that I thought I'd pass on.

 

In our homeschool, I believe that as the teacher/leader/adult that it is my job to impose my vision and understanding of what is important academically onto my children. I don't place much stock in a child's belief that a particular topic has no relevance because, frankly, a child has no real frame of reference from which to develop such a belief.

 

However, the question becomes: what is *my* frame of reference for the development of my beliefs about what is academically relevant or important? When I'm being honest with myself, I've discovered that the knowledge *I* bring with me has a lot to do with it. And I've found that the knowledge I possess, and therefore what I think is important, changes as I continue to homeschool.

 

Some examples:

 

When I was in high school I thought that all math was irrelevant and tried to learn as little math as possible. I was convinced that I would never go into a field that would require any math; I wanted to be an artist after all. Two years later, I decided to major in biochemistry and needed to take three semesters of calculus, three semesters of calculus-based physics, and two semesters of physical chemistry, all of which were very math intensive. I was at a *huge* disadvantage in all of these courses due to my weak math background, and this weakness extended all the way back to third grade math, with my lack of knowledge of math facts!

 

The above example is pretty straightforward, and that experience has kept me alert to my own attitudes about various subjects. However, I've noticed recently that there is another more insidious form of the same thing that I am struggling with to this day.

 

This past year my older son was taking high school chemistry. Keep in mind that my background is in biochemistry and so I have taken *lots* of chemistry in college and then used *lots* of chemistry working in a lab after graduation. However, that first year I took general chemistry, I wasn't the best student, and many things slipped past me. I ended up learning some of those things later, in higher level coursework when I *was* a good student or later at work in the lab. But a few topics remained elusive.

 

I noticed that whenever one of these elusive topics came up, I would downplay that topic. I wouldn't assign problems on it and wouldn't test on it. It wasn't important, right? Well, about halfway through the year, I noticed this: "not important" was actually a proxy for "Mom doesn't really understand." Pretty scary, really.

 

This has also happened in topics like history, but in that case "not important" seems to mean "Mom doesn't find this interesting."

 

Another thing I've noticed about math in particular after homeschooling my older son from kindergarten-level math through geometry is that I have a much more solid perspective of what in arithmetic is important to success in high school math than I did going into it. While my older son suffered through my lack of perspective (one symptom of my lack of perspective was using multiple math programs), my younger son is reaping the benefits of perspective gained. I truly believe that many of the troubles plaguing elementary math education could be alleviated by requiring elementary math teachers to first take, then teach, kindergarten math through geometry.

 

What we don't know is, by definition, unimportant to us. What is difficult is frequently uninteresting to us. While homeschooling I've found that I had deep and vast holes in my knowledge of many topics, and one that stands out is history. Many years ago I thought that knowledge of history was unimportant; after learning history through homeschooling, I've found that history is everywhere. How could I have existed without this knowledge? As a result, the world has sprung into vivid relief.

 

While many things in early elementary education seem ridiculous--and some of them are--many others are laying a foundation in some way for future studies. Sometimes this is a foundation of familiarity: we tend to find interesting what is familiar to us. Other times we are building a foundation for something we do not yet anticipate because we haven't yet taught it. For me, I only realized what certain math concepts were *really* useful for when I taught algebra.

 

All of that said, if you don't want to go the unschooling route, there are things you can do to make your homeschooling experience more satisfying. For example, spelling doesn't have to be a study, test, forget experience. Programs like Sequential Spelling don't work that way at all, and programs like AAS teach rules and incorporate continual review so that the forgetting issue is minimized.

 

Your discomfort with what you're doing now indicates that something needs to change, but it does not necessarily indicate that what you're studying is unimportant or irrelevant.

[Corraleno]

So do I just keep going thru the motions – teaching these subjects that have no interest, no relevance, and hope that it all pays off someday? Or do I turn unschooler or something??? It seems like we need some structure for the day. That has been my #1 reason in teaching grammar, spelling, science, history, etc. is simply to keep some structure and give the kids busy-work. But it just seems like such a wasted reason. I could structure our day by having everyone clean the house, and then our house would be clean instead…LOL.

Actually, I think having chores provide the structure/routine is an excellent idea, especially right now with a little one under foot. Then the chores/housekeeping become the thing they want to do quickly to "just get it out of the way" (a wonderful habit that will serve them well as adults!) and learning can be the fun, spontaneous stuff they do afterwards. There are a lot of ways to do "school" without doing school. Here are some suggestions:

 

Grammar: Madlibs (teaches parts of speech as well as any grammar program but a lot more fun)

 

Spelling: Bananagrams

 

Reading: get some audiobooks and let the kids read along in the book with the audio book. (Tale of Desperaux is the best audiobook I've ever heard, the British actor who reads it is a genius. Excellent vocabulary and great moral lessons, too.)

 

Math: The Family Math book has lots of ideas for games and everyday activities that incorporate math. There are also lots of card games and dice games that are math based. Look at some of the games at Muggins Math.

 

History & Science: Do you have Netflix? There are a TON of documentaries, many of them available for instant streaming. Let the kids vote on a topic and queue up a bunch of videos on that topic, whether it's birds, volcanoes, the Revolutionary war, Pyramids, whatever. Curl up on the sofa together with the baby in your lap and watch & discuss. Go for nature walks, buy some beautiful art supplies and start nature journals. For experiments, I highly recommend Creepy Crawlies and the Scientific Method (100 experiments with bugs and critters — perfect for summer!) as well as this free online program, which has very cool experiments using everyday household materials (much better than the usual experiments-for-kids books). Let the kids flip through them and choose what they want to do. Let them use the worksheets if they want, or skip them if they're only interested in the hands-on stuff.

 

It sounds to me as if your family isn't burned out on the input side of things so much as on the output — having to write or test or do worksheets. I'd totally forget about measuring and output for a while and just do stuff. Forget about a schedule — if the kids want to watch Life of Birds and go birdwatching and not play any math games that day, fine. If they want to lie in a hammock and read all day, fine. Think about stuff, talk about stuff, and forget about the worksheets and busywork. See if that will rekindle their (and your!) love of learning.

 

Jackie