Michael Pearl's Response to his critics today

[Mergath]

What a heartless f***wit. I guess empathy and humility aren't as important to the Pearl clan as obedience and fear. Really, though, I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that he isn't upset about the death of that poor child, given that he seems to equate children to dogs and mules.

[unsinkable]

That man is just horrifying. I would love to leave a comment on his blog but to do so would require becoming a member and that is something I would never do.

 

I find it very telling that Pearl claims that all good children, and all well adjusted adults are his. Pearl does not glorify God in any way nor aknowledge that all good comes from Him. To Mr. Pearl I would like to say;

 

Whenever a mother finds herself going too far in taking your parenting advice and beating her child, may she find a loving counselor to help her do better. That counselor will be one of His.

 

Whenever a parent finds himself in the unthinkable situation of being incarcerated for having murdered a child by following your advice, may they find a forgiving pastor or minister to help him. That pastor will be one of His.

 

Whenever a child grows up to be an adult with an empty hole in his heart where safety, security and love from parents should be, and instead finds only fear and pain because, not only did his parents beat him but expressed their delight in doing so on your advice; may he find a friend to lead him to the healer of all sorrows, the Savior, Jesus Christ. That friend will be one of His.

 

When a young adult finds herself terrified to hold her newborn baby because the only example she has ever seen are those who followed your advice and abused their infants, may she find someone who will show her a better way; the loving way to raise a child. That someone will be one of His.

 

When you pass from this life, Mr. Pearl, do you expect that the Savior will meet you with a whip around his neck to give you what you deserve? No he will meet you with his palms upraised to show the wounds he received in atoning for your sins so you wouldn't have to feel the whip. Then he will ask you why you caused so much pain and suffering, sorrow and heartbreak in His name. I wonder what the answer will be.

 

 

Just my 2 cents,

Amber in SJ

 

Amber, this is beautiful. I am crying. :grouphug:

[LBS]

Reading his rant left me shaken. I particularly was appalled at his need to try to say his children were superior (because he abused them) to your and my children. Is that the way to sell books? Does he think he is clever, by putting our children down, in order to recommend his children's talents or value? That is what struck me, as the unkindest cut of the rant.

 

I agree he is totally whacko: a bully, who teaches perpetuating bullying and falsely uses Scripture to try to justify. Ignorance typifies people who need to use physical force when their intellectual force is too weak or they are too lazy. The real crime is that this guy has a cadre of abusive followers, in fact, an organized group who buy his books and use them to justify laziness in parenting....oh, darn, I'm saying too much, but it just burns me up.

Edited March 4, 2010 by LBS

[KristineinKS]

I believe he is the leader of the pack. I wonder if he is currently shopping for land to house his cult.

 

According to this (from 2006), he's already got the land:

 

There's no sign welcoming visitors to Pearl's Church at Cane Creek. Getting there means driving down a steep ridge where the Tennessee foothills begin fading to plains. Then, it's a left at the hand-painted signs advertising vegetables, crafts and furniture. As the blacktop turns to dirt, a bridge leads to the Pearls' farm.

 

At the foot of a cow pasture, on the bank of a rippling stream, Pearl's loyal base gathers on Sundays. A private property warning is tacked to a sturdy oak at the foot of the church: a weathered red assembly hall perched on 10-foot stilts to survive floods. On a crisp Sunday morning earlier this month, Pearl, in muddy boots and a bright orange shirt, chirped “good morning” to a wobbly toddler as he strode to the front of the drafty room. Debi Pearl, his wife of 35 years, hugged every neck and patted every little head in sight.

 

Three dozen or so locals, a third of them Pearl's kin, settled into plastic garden chairs in the one-room sanctuary. Debi Pearl, perched delicately beside her husband, smiled brightly as her granddaughter fished for a raisin from a snack bag. Older children sat as still as statues.

 

Interesting.

Edited March 4, 2010 by KristineinKS

[hornblower]

So why does he feel that his way of child rearing is so superior and the only correct way to raise a child???

Where is his respect for parents with child rearing ideas that are different than his?? Does he know that not everyone chooses to follow his method?? His opinon on raising children does NOT make him or his family any better than anyone!! We are all equal----we are all born naked, we all die---and we all wipe our butts!!

 

See - I don't understand this question at all. I thought the whole thing with the Pearls was directly linked to certain religious viewpoints which teach that there IS only ONE way. Isn't this all about raising children in a way which pleases God? And his interpretation is that there is one way to please God, one way to interpret scriptures, and that it's HIS way - whether it's regarding raising children or treating wives and whatever else he has decided to tell people how to do. And the people who are not following the teachings in the scripture as he interprets them are doomed. He believes that he is better - in the sense that I think he believes he is pleasing God and that those who do not please God will suffer horribly.

 

I think the guy is a sadist. But I also think sadism, masochism and dominance/submission themes have been present in pretty extreme and perverted forms in many churches throughout time. This is just another variation on a theme.

[mammaruss]

In my opinion, when you bring any "object" into discipline--wooden spoon, belt, tubing, brush, broom, etc.....then it becomes abuse. It is teaching a child to respond from fear-not respect. I come from a very abusive home--it started out with just a spank--and I was not fearful. Once it escalated to correcting me with objects I became extremely fearful and I lost my respect for my parents at a very young age. For many years I smiled dutifully--maybe even laughed--due to fear. If I did not show that I was happy I was physically corrected with the nearest object. I lived my life in fear--every.single.move I made I was constantly in fear.

Fast forward to my children--one ds is 21 and one ds is 10--Neither of them have been raised with any sort of physical correction. They are raised in a home that respects them. They both understand that there is right decisions and wrong decisions. They both understand that there are consequences to face if they chose to make a wrong decision. They respect authority--they do not fear authority. My boys are not perfect and there are days that we do butt heads--is it because dh and I did not chose to "hit" them?? No, it is because we chose to raise them with a mind of their own and in a loving environment that they do not have to fear anything/anyone for voicing their opinions in our home. They show respect, they have manners, they follow rules but then they also like to test and see how close to the boundary that they can get....they are 2 fun, respectful human beings that will make wonderful, loving husbands/fathers and law abiding citizens. We did not raise them to be perfect little robots. Are we perfect parents--NO! No one is perfect. If I am doomed because of the way my boys were raised then I will have to deal with that when I meet my Maker!

 

Michael Pearl says, "Parenting, the most important and demanding job in the world comes on us by default. Ready or not, prepared or ill equipped, all parents produce fruit that lasts throughout eternity. . . . The melody or the dissonance goes on and on from one generation to the next unless someone takes the time to break the cycle and learn the skill…of parenting."

---I am proud to say that I broke an abusive cycle of parenting.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :tongue_smilie:

[SonshineLearner]

Ok... You know what I think after reading this whole thread?? There is no way I'll recommend any parenting book. All of them have something wrong... and you know... the whole Pearl response is what bothers me more. Everyone has a different idea of abuse.... and I guess my wooden spoon swat for my 6 year old... every 2 months or so... screams abuse to some. I consider sending kids to their rooms... over and over .... worse for my son. (we don't really do any punishments, often) Gosh, last time I had him sent to a chair... he screamed as though I had done something horrible. It's those times, from the outside, that someone would think he's being abused.

I think the underlying question, after... what would God have me do? Is... how will my child look at this... when he's an adult? and what would I want my parent to do with me, if I were the child? Those questions call me into a different spot when I'm questioning the best approach, and would take away much of the heaviness from punitive punishments.... (and occasionally, perhaps you'd be more stern??)

 

This whole thread makes me want to pray for my parenting skills, pray for my children, and also to teach my children Logic, which would solve the mindless thinking problem....

 

:-)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean,

 

I just wanted to let you know that when *I* read it, before there were ANY other posts in this thread, I read it like you did. In fact, I've read similar from homeschoolers on MANY comments sections of articles/blogs. So I did think, "waste of a post. We get it; he and his followers agree with his methods."

 

I do agree with the posts here though. His response should have been reverent, serious, concerned, and not nearly so pompous. It is fine to feel his methods are best (don't we all sometimes?), but it's another thing to miss that this is about a child's DEATH.

 

BTW, I got to your next post. I totally agree with: If I disagree with someone I want it to be fair because I don't want to fall into the same rhetorical excesses that they have fallen into.

 

When I read TTUAC (twice, once fairly recently), I agreed with A LOT of what they said. Because I went into it without simply looking at the abuse (and there most certainly is abuse involved), I found plenty to agree with. I believe in strict discipline. I believe in consistency. I believe in immediately handling things. I believe in clear expectations. I believe in high standards. I believe children are much more capable than most people expect of them. I believe in family worship (not shipping kids off to the nursery). I personally used blanket training. And a number of other things. I don't agree with their METHODS. And I WAY don't agree with the one size fits all thing as I have what is probably THE easiest kid in the world who most certainly would have been hurt by such harsh methods. And I have a kiddo who gave new definition to the word challenging who would have been found dead using such methods (esp if I fell for the "possessed damsel" and "wimpy" comments!).

 

And really, there ARE better methods. For example, on a link posted earlier in this thread, the example is given of a woman who switched her 3yo daughter every night for 23 nights to get her to stay in bed. SN has shown that within a couple days of consistent discipline (that I still don't agree with but that is another thread), a family can turn nightmare situation into half decent, including kids going to bed at a decent time and without carrying on. Most people haven't allowed their 3yos to get nearly as out of control as SN's families. Most people could get these results in WAY under 3 weeks. Key is not the switch, but the consistency.

 

Anyway, so like you, I am willing to say there may be a redeeming bit here and there. However, I do agree with others, in other threads, who have pointed out that sometimes we need to get rid of even the good of something because the bad is so bad. I think that probably is the case with MP.

 

I agree totally with what you've written here. But if I were a hard-core or even a soft-core MP follower, I would be totally turned off by some of the over-the-top comments about him and his methods. I would be persuaded to turn away from reading his books by well reasoned comments like yours.

 

I haven't read TTUAC in 10 years, perhaps more. I already believed in consistency, clear expectations, etc. I nodded at some of that, raised my eyebrows way up at some other things (I specifically remember reading aloud some shocking parts to my dh) and then tossed it aside. Later at some point, someone lent me some of the No Greater Joy books. I read them and gave them back. I wasn't in this situation, but I could see someone who is at their rope's end (like many of the people who seem to write to them) wanting a cook-book type list on how to discipline. I think that is a huge mistake in any case, even if the method were perfect (which his isn't) because people's children and circumstances are so different.

 

My dh is a pastor who refuses to give specific application examples in his sermons because people tend to apply them to the wrong situations. Instead he gives general principles and tells people to think for themselves.

[coffeefreak]

Ok... You know what I think after reading this whole thread?? There is no way I'll recommend any parenting book. All of them have something wrong... and you know... the whole Pearl response is what bothers me more. Everyone has a different idea of abuse.... and I guess my wooden spoon swat for my 6 year old... every 2 months or so... screams abuse to some. I consider sending kids to their rooms... over and over .... worse for my son. (we don't really do any punishments, often) Gosh, last time I had him sent to a chair... he screamed as though I had done something horrible. It's those times, from the outside, that someone would think he's being abused.

I think the underlying question, after... what would God have me do? Is... how will my child look at this... when he's an adult? and what would I want my parent to do with me, if I were the child? Those questions call me into a different spot when I'm questioning the best approach, and would take away much of the heaviness from punitive punishments.... (and occasionally, perhaps you'd be more stern??)

 

This whole thread makes me want to pray for my parenting skills, pray for my children, and also to teach my children Logic, which would solve the mindless thinking problem....

 

:-)

 

Not only do I refrain from recommending parenting books, I don't recommend "good wife" books either. I've learned the hard way that people should look to the Lord and their Bibles for help. Our desire to be good wives and mothers can leave us so vulnerable, we are susceptible to false teachers and criticism. From the moment I gave birth to oldest dd, I was subjected to criticism and critique. NOTHING I did was right. We, as a society and as a church tear new mothers down until they are incapacitated and begging for help. For those of us that come from abusive homes, we can become paralyzed, incapable of making decisions for fear of making the wrong one.

 

 

Jean - I understand the point you were trying to make and in no way mean the following to single you out or attack you. However, I wanted to address the idea of objectivity when it comes to Michael Pearl. I wrote it out, and then realized it might offend you and that was not my intention.:001_smile:

 

One of the most difficult things for me as a mother has been, reconciling my love of the Lord, with the false doctrine and teachings that are in the church. I am no longer Objective about Michael Pearl and his teachings because I don't have to be. There are plenty of us on these boards that have the authority to speak out against the Pearls. I have read all his child rearing and "good wife" materials. I used to subscribe to his magazine, and I even offered his wife our church (old church) for a speaking engagement (and then attended the speaking engagement). I have never abused my children (praise God), but I lived with the guilt and the sorrow of "knowing" that I was ruining them by NOT "Biblically Chastising" them. I also lived with the torture of knowing I was a "Horrible Wife." Trust me, plenty of people in our church reinforced those beliefs. I watched my dh read MP's teachings and become more and more discouraged and confused about whether he was doing "the right things" with his family. MP's way is the ONLY way. He has even gone so far to say, if you're not raising your sons to live apart from the world, you're giving them over to Satan. If you don't use the KJV Bible, you're not reading the word of God. If you are questioning your husband, working outside the home, putting your kids in activities with non-believers, or (God-forbid) you quit homeschooling, you are a follower of Satan. If you even think about divorcing your husband, you deserve the abuse and treatment he doles out. He is running a cult. Period. He is the final authority. He is in charge of the family. His interpretation of the Bible is the only interpretation, and that's that. Oh, and BTW, did anyone see they've written a book for young, unmarried women about preparing to be a "good wife?" I am horrified to think about what's in it and what kind of damage it might do to the hundreds of young women who read it.

 

So, I understand how some might feel that we need to be objective and consider his point of view. If I knew nothing about him and had never been in a church that preached his doctrine, I would agree with you. However, since I have lived it first hand, and seen the fallout, I don't think that's necessary. Anyone who has read his magazine knows this is his true character, and is an "authority" that should be listened to. I cringe everytime the boards get into a discussion about "Created to Be His Helpmeet," but then I realize, the women who are FOR the book have not really read anything else by the Pearls. Someone will probably correct me on that, but that's been my observation on these boards. So, I posted the link because, I hope that by speaking out against him, other families will be spared the heartache he has caused.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[Saille]

When you pass from this life, Mr. Pearl, do you expect that the Savior will meet you with a whip around his neck to give you what you deserve? No he will meet you with his palms upraised to show the wounds he received in atoning for your sins so you wouldn't have to feel the whip. Then he will ask you why you caused so much pain and suffering, sorrow and heartbreak in His name. I wonder what the answer will be.

 

This is a great post.

[Saille]

According to this (from 2006), he's already got the land:

 

From this same article:

 

By Pearl's math, one-sixth of the nation's estimated 3 million home-schooling families use his training methods.

 

Um, what?

[lionfamily1999]

Ok... You know what I think after reading this whole thread?? There is no way I'll recommend any parenting book. All of them have something wrong... and you know... the whole Pearl response is what bothers me more. Everyone has a different idea of abuse.... and I guess my wooden spoon swat for my 6 year old... every 2 months or so... screams abuse to some. I consider sending kids to their rooms... over and over .... worse for my son. (we don't really do any punishments, often) Gosh, last time I had him sent to a chair... he screamed as though I had done something horrible. It's those times, from the outside, that someone would think he's being abused.

I think the underlying question, after... what would God have me do? Is... how will my child look at this... when he's an adult? and what would I want my parent to do with me, if I were the child? Those questions call me into a different spot when I'm questioning the best approach, and would take away much of the heaviness from punitive punishments.... (and occasionally, perhaps you'd be more stern??)

 

This whole thread makes me want to pray for my parenting skills, pray for my children, and also to teach my children Logic, which would solve the mindless thinking problem....

 

:-)

Well then the whole wasn't a complete wash was it? ;)

 

:grouphug:

[Pamela H in Texas]

Saille,

 

MP must not have gotten the memo about "new math" :)

[amy g.]

I just want to add that I have 7 dogs who have never been hit, and yet do not kill chickens.

 

This guy is just wrong about everything.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not only do I refrain from recommending parenting books, I don't recommend "good wife" books either. I've learned the hard way that people should look to the Lord and their Bibles for help. Our desire to be good wives and mothers can leave us so vulnerable, we are susceptible to false teachers and criticism. From the moment I gave birth to oldest dd, I was subjected to criticism and critique. NOTHING I did was right. We, as a society and as a church tear new mothers down until they are incapacitated and begging for help. For those of us that come from abusive homes, we can become paralyzed, incapable of making decisions for fear of making the wrong one.

 

 

Jean - I understand the point you were trying to make and in no way mean the following to single you out or attack you. However, I wanted to address the idea of objectivity when it comes to Michael Pearl. I wrote it out, and then realized it might offend you and that was not my intention.:001_smile:

 

One of the most difficult things for me as a mother has been, reconciling my love of the Lord, with the false doctrine and teachings that are in the church. I am no longer Objective about Michael Pearl and his teachings because I don't have to be. There are plenty of us on these boards that have the authority to speak out against the Pearls. I have read all his child rearing and "good wife" materials. I used to subscribe to his magazine, and I even offered his wife our church (old church) for a speaking engagement (and then attended the speaking engagement). I have never abused my children (praise God), but I lived with the guilt and the sorrow of "knowing" that I was ruining them by NOT "Biblically Chastising" them. I also lived with the torture of knowing I was a "Horrible Wife." Trust me, plenty of people in our church reinforced those beliefs. I watched my dh read MP's teachings and become more and more discouraged and confused about whether he was doing "the right things" with his family. MP's way is the ONLY way. He has even gone so far to say, if you're not raising your sons to live apart from the world, you're giving them over to Satan. If you don't use the KJV Bible, you're not reading the word of God. If you are questioning your husband, working outside the home, putting your kids in activities with non-believers, or (God-forbid) you quit homeschooling, you are a follower of Satan. If you even think about divorcing your husband, you deserve the abuse and treatment he doles out. He is running a cult. Period. He is the final authority. He is in charge of the family. His interpretation of the Bible is the only interpretation, and that's that. Oh, and BTW, did anyone see they've written a book for young, unmarried women about preparing to be a "good wife?" I am horrified to think about what's in it and what kind of damage it might do to the hundreds of young women who read it.

 

So, I understand how some might feel that we need to be objective and consider his point of view. If I knew nothing about him and had never been in a church that preached his doctrine, I would agree with you. However, since I have lived it first hand, and seen the fallout, I don't think that's necessary. Anyone who has read his magazine knows this is his true character, and is an "authority" that should be listened to. I cringe everytime the boards get into a discussion about "Created to Be His Helpmeet," but then I realize, the women who are FOR the book have not really read anything else by the Pearls. Someone will probably correct me on that, but that's been my observation on these boards. So, I posted the link because, I hope that by speaking out against him, other families will be spared the heartache he has caused.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

 

Dorinda - You didn't offend me! Actually I think your post is very objective. It lists what he says and why you think it is wrong. It is the one or two liners that are hit and run assaults on his teachings or the Ezzos or . . . . that I don't think are objective. Not because I disagree with their final opinion that his writings are wrong, but because they are simply name-calling. The fact is that there are people both on this board and elsewhere who do follow either whole-heartedly or in part, MP's writings. Calling them names does not help them. But writing out specifics that are based on fact and not conjecture does. Obviously something in the writing resonates with them. If we can find out what it is (for me, even though I can't say that I followed him per se, I did resonate with the basic principle that discipline should be consistent. I also resonated with the idea that we should teach our children how to do the right thing (training) instead of just punishing them for doing it wrong.) I just went with those principles on my own instead of looking for other books that teach those principles but I think some people would benefit from books. Do any of you know of books that teach parenting principles instead of a one-size-fits-all method that is ripe for abuse?

[MelanieM]

Do any of you know of books that teach parenting principles instead of a one-size-fits-all method that is ripe for abuse?

 

The Sears' books are beautifully written and respectful of parents and children. They have a Discipline book -- called The Discipline Book -- that is good. One of the best things about the Sears' is that they recommend parents trust themselves over anyone else or outside advice. They're also Christian.

 

I also think Kids Are Worth It by Barbara Coloroso is brilliant. Again, respectful of people no matter their age or position in the family.

[coffeefreak]

Dorinda - You didn't offend me! Actually I think your post is very objective. It lists what he says and why you think it is wrong. It is the one or two liners that are hit and run assaults on his teachings or the Ezzos or . . . . that I don't think are objective. Not because I disagree with their final opinion that his writings are wrong, but because they are simply name-calling. The fact is that there are people both on this board and elsewhere who do follow either whole-heartedly or in part, MP's writings. Calling them names does not help them. But writing out specifics that are based on fact and not conjecture does. Obviously something in the writing resonates with them. If we can find out what it is (for me, even though I can't say that I followed him per se, I did resonate with the basic principle that discipline should be consistent. I also resonated with the idea that we should teach our children how to do the right thing (training) instead of just punishing them for doing it wrong.) I just went with those principles on my own instead of looking for other books that teach those principles but I think some people would benefit from books. Do any of you know of books that teach parenting principles instead of a one-size-fits-all method that is ripe for abuse?

 

Good! I'm glad you weren't offended! I don't *FEEL* very objective when it comes to the Pearls KWIM? You're right, I still have VERY good friends that read the Pearl's books and it's so hard to hold one's tongue and not just rant. But, I know if I "go off" they'll just shut down and ignore me. They know how I feel about the books and why. None of them abuse their kids, so I don't feel the need to push the issue, but it does come up from time to time and they know my opinion on the matter.

 

I have read a couple of books about specific subjects related to parenting. But what I realized was, the books that help are the ones about ME. Not about how to "fix" or "train" your kids. The one's I've liked are, "Boundaries," by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend, or "The Five Love Languages," by Gary Chapman. I also read, "Good and Angry," by Scott Turansky, which made me see that I had an angry kid because *I* was angry. I got through maybe the first 3 chapters of that book and didn't need it anymore. Just that insight alone helped me to see it wasn't my kids that needed fixing, it was me. I no longer have an "angry" kid!

 

As Christians, we believe that we are born with our personalities/gifts, and the God gave them to us. Most of the Christian "child rearing" books are about changing your children (at least the ones that were recommended to me), and bending them to your will. But it's not MY will! I did not create this child, God did (yes, we had a hand, but I think you know what I mean;)). It is not my job to turn this child into a drone, but to bring out the gifts, and talents and TEACH the child how to get along in society. Isn't it Joanne that says, we are to come alongside our children? I LOVE that statement. It actually makes me sad that there were no "parenting" books 11 years ago, written by Grace-full parents. Maybe there were, and I was just in the wrong circles? I think Joanne has mentioned a few before, I'm not very good at finding old threads though:001_smile:

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[Mrs Mungo]

G"The Five Love Languages," by Gary Chapman.

 

 

I love that book.

 

I also read, "Good and Angry," by Scott Turansky, which made me see that I had an angry kid because *I* was angry.

 

This one too.

[Slartibartfast]

Saille,

 

MP must not have gotten the memo about "new math" :)

 

 

OMG *snort*

 

:lol:

[Slartibartfast]

FWIW I really find this method interesting

 

http://aolff.org/

 

I don't think any way is the RIGHT way for every family.

[Joanne]

FWIW I really find this method interesting

 

http://aolff.org/

 

I don't think any way is the RIGHT way for every family.

 

Crystal is my dear friend. I lived near her for years. She was at my wedding for my remarriage! I am the "Joanne Davidson" (my former married name) published in her first book, Biblical Parenting.

 

We've given parenting classes together.

[Slartibartfast]

Crystal is my dear friend. I lived near her for years. She was at my wedding for my remarriage! I am the "Joanne Davidson" (my former married name) published in her first book, Biblical Parenting.

 

We've given parenting classes together.

 

Awesome, I really love her work. :)

[kalanamak]

 

Three dozen or so locals, a third of them Pearl's kin, settled into plastic garden chairs in the one-room sanctuary.

 

...sounding more like Fred Phelps by the minute.

[Jennifer in MI]

...sounding more like Fred Phelps by the minute.

Ugh. They came and protested our church one morning. They were NOT willing to listen to reason. What did get to them, however, was one woman at our church. She stood out on the steps of our church and laughed at them. They were SOOOOO angry!! We still get a good laugh about that.

[Slartibartfast]

...sounding more like Fred Phelps by the minute.

 

I really believe that some are led to the ministry by Satan seeing how they drive people away from Christianity rather than towards it.

[Miss Sherry]

All I can say is, Mr. Pearl is narcissistic and delusional. How he can be so arrogant and presumptuous as to take credit for millions of children growing up and becoming successful business owners etc. simply because he has sold a lot of terribly junky books is beyond comprehension. Obviously, he is in the habit of lying to himself. Very, very strange. :ohmy:

[kalanamak]

Ugh. They came and protested our church one morning. They were NOT willing to listen to reason. What did get to them, however, was one woman at our church. She stood out on the steps of our church and laughed at them. They were SOOOOO angry!! We still get a good laugh about that.

 

I drove past the funeral of some poor kid killed in Iraq and there was Fred's clan on a major street in Topeka Kansas, with a small child with a sign:

 

"God hates c*cks*ckers"

 

I kid you not.

On the other side of the street was a small group with signs

 

"Honk if you hate Fred" and the horns were going going going.

 

(For those of you who don't know Fred, he protests these funerals because he is opposed to Don't Ask Don't Tell. So, imagine you are the parents, spouse, minor child of someone killed in military service, and you get THIS outside the funeral. I'm actually surprised no one has shot him yet.)

[KnitWit]

I drove past the funeral of some poor kid killed in Iraq and there was Fred's clan on a major street in Topeka Kansas, with a small child with a sign:

 

"God hates c*cks*ckers"

 

I kid you not.

On the other side of the street was a small group with signs

 

"Honk if you hate Fred" and the horns were going going going.

 

(For those of you who don't know Fred, he protests these funerals because he is opposed to Don't Ask Don't Tell. So, imagine you are the parents, spouse, minor child of someone killed in military service, and you get THIS outside the funeral. I'm actually surprised no one has shot him yet.)

 

This is horrid

[OnTheBrink]

Interesting that Phelps and Pearl are being compared. I was thinking the same thing--they're awfully similar.

 

The Phelps Pholks were supposed to come here last November to protest a play being done about Matthew Shepherd (sp?) but they never arrived. I drove through downtown seeing all sorts of people with signs about tolerance, etc, but couldn't figure out what they were there for. I read in the paper later what was going on and that the Phelps' never showed up. It would have been a hot time in this old town that night had they actually made it here!

[Mrs Mungo]

(For those of you who don't know Fred, he protests these funerals because he is opposed to Don't Ask Don't Tell. So, imagine you are the parents, spouse, minor child of someone killed in military service, and you get THIS outside the funeral. I'm actually surprised no one has shot him yet.)

 

Well, he is opposed to all sorts of things. Example:

Military funerals are pagan orgies of idolatrous blasphemy where they pray to the dunghill gods of Sodom and play taps to a fallen fool, 'They shall not lament for him, saying, Ah my brother! or, Ah sister! they shall not lament for him, saying, Ah lord! or, Ah his glory! He shall be buried with the burial of an ass, drawn and cast forth beyond the gates of Jerusalem.' Jer. 22:18&19.

 

Military families are sent specific warnings about engaging him and his clan. They make their money off of suing people who beat the crap out of them. It *has* happened. Now, the Patriot Guard helps escort families. The US has banned protests within 300 feet of national cemeteries for one hour before and after funerals and many states have passed similar laws.

 

Also, some private citizens get together to block the entry of the Phelps clan into town until after they are too late for the funeral.

[momto2Cs]

My son's almost finished reading Dante's Inferno. I had him read some of the infamous Pearl articles, some of the responses here, and Mr Pearl's latest.

Tomorrow his assignment is to decide which level of Dante's Hell is best for Mr Pearl, and why.....

 

 

:lol:

 

Let me know which level!

[swimmermom3]

Well, he is opposed to all sorts of things. Example:

 

 

Military families are sent specific warnings about engaging him and his clan. They make their money off of suing people who beat the crap out of them. It *has* happened. Now, the Patriot Guard helps escort families. The US has banned protests within 300 feet of national cemeteries for one hour before and after funerals and many states have passed similar laws.

 

Also, some private citizens get together to block the entry of the Phelps clan into town until after they are too late for the funeral.

 

My jaw just hit the desk. Nooo.Noooo. Nooo. Reading about the Pearls was bad enough. This? No.words.

[LauraGB]

My jaw just hit the desk. Nooo.Noooo. Nooo. Reading about the Pearls was bad enough. This? No.words.

 

:iagree: I had no idea. I'm so sheltered.

[elizabeth]

Aw where you been living?? Fred and his daughter Shirley just cannot seem to get enough of Iowa, land of the libertines. I think the motorcyclists who literally surround the family as the funeral procession exits for the cemetery with their bikes and prayers are a message from above that God doesn't like ugly. There were in front of my city library we Romans(Catholics) chased their evil souls back to Kansas with our rosaries. Many of us pack them in our handbags since you never know where you might need one. It scares the heck out of them.

[Mrs Mungo]

Aw where you been living?? Fred and his daughter Shirley just cannot seem to get enough of Iowa, land of the libertines. I think the motorcyclists who literally surround the family as the funeral procession exits for the cemetery with their bikes and prayers are a message from above that God doesn't like ugly. There were in front of my city library we Romans(Catholics) chased their evil souls back to Kansas with our rosaries. Many of us pack them in our handbags since you never know where you might need one. It scares the heck out of them.

 

I'm not Catholic but I do have a rosary that I bought at the Vatican. It was blessed by one of the Vatican priests. Maybe I should start carrying it around, just in case.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I find these tags to be disturbing :001_huh:

 

No, not beating a dead horse. Parents taught by Michael Pearl beating a child unto death.

 

No, the horse is not dead. A child is dead, and her sister has kidney damage from being beat with the murder weapon, a plumbing supply line recommended by Michael Pearl.

 

It is fine for this thread to end, of course, and it would also be nice to forget about the death of Lydia Schatz and think about homeschooling instead. On the other hand, the horse will not dead until all homeschooling families have at least been warned. There are things about No Greater Joy Ministries that need brought out into daylight, lest one more inexperienced homeschooling Mama be pressured or tempted to follow without realizing that children have died.

 

Lydia Schatz's parents apparently "disciplined" her with consistency and with a 1/4 inch plumbing supply line, until she had no breath to complain. Michael Pearl never said to beat a child to death, but he did say to consistently "train" a child with a 1/4 inch plumbing supply line, and if she has enough breath to cry "huggie" then you are probably not "spanking" hard enough.

 

(quote from Pearl: "...when you do spank, make sure that it is forceful enough to get her undivided attention. If she can scream "huggie" while you are spanking her, you are probably not spanking hard enough.")

 

=98&tx_ttnews[backPid]=22&cHash=ac6e7bf821"]Read this article at the No Greater Joy website. Pearl critics are not misunderstanding or misrepresenting the teachings. This is an article written by the Pearls.

 

The horse isn't dead. Lydia is dead. Let the conversation about this end here if need be, but face what happened.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Dulcimeramy

[Granny_Weatherwax]

That man is just horrifying. I would love to leave a comment on his blog but to do so would require becoming a member and that is something I would never do.

 

I find it very telling that Pearl claims that all good children, and all well adjusted adults are his. Pearl does not glorify God in any way nor aknowledge that all good comes from Him. To Mr. Pearl I would like to say;

 

Whenever a mother finds herself going too far in taking your parenting advice and beating her child, may she find a loving counselor to help her do better. That counselor will be one of His.

 

Whenever a parent finds himself in the unthinkable situation of being incarcerated for having murdered a child by following your advice, may they find a forgiving pastor or minister to help him. That pastor will be one of His.

 

Whenever a child grows up to be an adult with an empty hole in his heart where safety, security and love from parents should be, and instead finds only fear and pain because, not only did his parents beat him but expressed their delight in doing so on your advice; may he find a friend to lead him to the healer of all sorrows, the Savior, Jesus Christ. That friend will be one of His.

 

When a young adult finds herself terrified to hold her newborn baby because the only example she has ever seen are those who followed your advice and abused their infants, may she find someone who will show her a better way; the loving way to raise a child. That someone will be one of His.

 

When you pass from this life, Mr. Pearl, do you expect that the Savior will meet you with a whip around his neck to give you what you deserve? No he will meet you with his palms upraised to show the wounds he received in atoning for your sins so you wouldn't have to feel the whip. Then he will ask you why you caused so much pain and suffering, sorrow and heartbreak in His name. I wonder what the answer will be.

 

 

Just my 2 cents,

Amber in SJ

 

I like this response. Well written.

[catalinakel]

:iagree: Well said.

 

I find these tags to be disturbing :001_huh:

 

No, not beating a dead horse. Parents taught by Michael Pearl beating a child unto death.

 

No, the horse is not dead. A child is dead, and her sister has kidney damage from being beat with the murder weapon, a plumbing supply line recommended by Michael Pearl.

 

It is fine for this thread to end, of course, and it would also be nice to forget about the death of Lydia Schatz and think about homeschooling instead. On the other hand, the horse will not dead until all homeschooling families have at least been warned. There are things about No Greater Joy Ministries that need brought out into daylight, lest one more inexperienced homeschooling Mama be pressured or tempted to follow without realizing that children have died.

 

Lydia Schatz's parents apparently "disciplined" her with consistency and with a 1/4 inch plumbing supply line, until she had no breath to complain. Michael Pearl never said to beat a child to death, but he did say to consistently "train" a child with a 1/4 inch plumbing supply line, and if she has enough breath to cry "huggie" then you are probably not "spanking" hard enough.

 

(quote from Pearl: "...when you do spank, make sure that it is forceful enough to get her undivided attention. If she can scream "huggie" while you are spanking her, you are probably not spanking hard enough.")

 

=98&tx_ttnews[backPid]=22&cHash=ac6e7bf821"]Read this article at the No Greater Joy website. Pearl critics are not misunderstanding or misrepresenting the teachings. This is an article written by the Pearls.

 

The horse isn't dead. Lydia is dead. Let the conversation about this end here if need be, but face what happened.

[Guest janainaz]

I seriously can't comprehend how anyone with a beating heart or a brain ever found their books and information useful.

[Miss Sherry]

I wasn't going to read it, but I did. That man is not mentally okay. What does he have - delusions of godhood?

I do not believe that man is Okay either. I think he does have delusions of godhood and I think as time goes on he will get worse. As his arrogance and boldness increases, you can expect his inappropriate behavior to increase. I wouldn't be surprised if what is known about his Bible twisting, arrogance, and inappropriate thinking and behavior is just the tip of the ice burg. IMO he is a scary, evil individual.

There are too many "christians" that want some dominant controller to tell them what to do, and I think he will become more controlling if more people continue to look up to him. It's all so twisted.

[RoughCollie]

The man's response horrified me. His methods horrify me, too. I could not, and would not, hit my kids with anything, much less a plumbing supply line.

 

To me, his method of disciplining and training kids is far too authoritarian. I am not in favor of using fear and pain as the prime motivator for making kids behave for many reasons. It is certainly the easy the way to do it, though.

[stripe]

The tone of the article really is disturbing, both for its smugness that his way is right no matter what, despite the clear evidence that it's NOT just fine when a child dies, and for the suggestion that his way is the only way -- the idea that everyone who doesn't raise their children his way are losers, bound to end up on (gasp!) public assistance and troubled. (I don't know what to make of that given the hard times people are in, in this economy. I guess being undisciplined enough to work for a company that goes out of business, is a sign your parent didn't beat you hard enough?) And it really begs the question of how did the world get by before he arrived on the scene? It's a semi-prophetic language (follow my way or be doomed) that I don't find appropriate for a mere mortal, whom I don't consider endowed with any unusual divine relationship.

 

The idea that it's "evidence" that your kids/grandkids are happy because they (maniacally?) laugh while beating/spanking their dolls is not quite how I see the evidence lining up. What about people who laugh while skinning kittens or whatever? Ugh.

[lionfamily1999]

I drove past the funeral of some poor kid killed in Iraq and there was Fred's clan on a major street in Topeka Kansas, with a small child with a sign:

 

"God hates c*cks*ckers"

 

I kid you not.

On the other side of the street was a small group with signs

 

"Honk if you hate Fred" and the horns were going going going.

 

(For those of you who don't know Fred, he protests these funerals because he is opposed to Don't Ask Don't Tell. So, imagine you are the parents, spouse, minor child of someone killed in military service, and you get THIS outside the funeral. I'm actually surprised no one has shot him yet.)

A friend of mine is a VA state trooper and had the honor of keeping Phelps and his "congregation" on the right side of the sidewalk during a funeral. Their morning meeting included warnings from the head that these people should be considered armed (signs with long wooden sticks) and dangerous. The troopers were told to stay on their toes and aware of any possible threats. ;)

 

During the funeral one of the kids started yelling, standing right infront of my favorite trooper. He (the trooper) took a step back and asked the kid if he was threatening an officer of the law, the kid says 'no.' Trooper replies that loud shouting threatens him and he is well within his power as a VA state officer of the law to take down any threat to himself, other officers, or any citizens around. Trooper said, it was one of their quietest protests.

 

:lol:

[Cindy in C-ville]

I wasn't going to read it, but I did. That man is not mentally okay. What does he have - delusions of godhood?

 

Well, this may have already been discussed as I haven't read all the posts, but he does believe that he (and everyone else) can and should live a sinless life.

 

Regardless of some of the "pearls" that may be present in some of his writings, IMHO, he has totally discredited himself. I have never bought his books, but have received the free newsletter and while I have never bought into his over-arching philosophy, I have been intrigued by some of his ideas - never again. Not only has he discredited himself, but he has hurt so many in the process. However, like others, I'm glad that his "true colors" have been revealed through his sarcastic and self-protective stance.

 

With this incident, and his response I will no longer sit quietly when people talk about his teachings, but will warn people against him, particularly impressionable young wives and moms who just want to do it 'right.'

 

What a stench.

[stripe]

Well, this may have already been discussed as I haven't read all the posts, but he does believe that he (and everyone else) can and should live a sinless life.

! Wow.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, this may have already been discussed as I haven't read all the posts, but he does believe that he (and everyone else) can and should live a sinless life.

 

 

Yes, he does believe this. And I don't agree with it Biblically. But to be fair/objective he did not invent this idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement There are denominations that teach this. And yes, it is significant that he believes this and it influences his teaching/practices.

[SproutMamaK]

Yes, he does believe this. And I don't agree with it Biblically. But to be fair/objective he did not invent this idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement There are denominations that teach this. And yes, it is significant that he believes this and it influences his teaching/practices.

 

As such, I would also think that he does LITERALLY think that he is God. He seems to think that he is one of those people who have managed to remove sin from their lives entirely- and that thus, he IS a god.

[Caribbean Queen]

I expected him to say, "I never told anyone to beat their child to death." He didn't say anything like that, which makes me wonder if that was an old post to his critics in general - not a recent response to the horrible death of a child.

[Jean in Newcastle]

As such, I would also think that he does LITERALLY think that he is God. He seems to think that he is one of those people who have managed to remove sin from their lives entirely- and that thus, he IS a god.

 

Well, no. You might be able to argue that he thinks he has apostolic type authority over his followers. But this doctrine argues that the complete sanctification that most believers (including myself) believes will happen in heaven (without becoming a god, btw) happens here on earth. Now I do have a hard time understanding how people can mesh that belief with the sins that all people do daily. I've asked people who believe this way (my university religion teacher was one and I sincerely doubt he had ever even heard of Michael Pearl) and was told that what we would call sins are just "mistakes".

[SonshineLearner]

and was told that what we would call sins are just "mistakes".

 

Then none of these little kids who are just making mistakes... (because their parents are Christians, and so we want to believe our children will remain "in the faith") would need spanked... You only spank for heart issues... which would be sin... so.... the whole spanking issue would not be something Michael Pearl would believe in for children of Christians, right??

 

Mistakes... hmmm I was taught that when we become Christians, we are no longer Sinners... but rather Saints.. (of Christ) and that we can sin... but once "redeemed" we won't be "sinners" like before Salvation... hmmm