Curious question for the ultra secular people ...

[Luanne]

I've noticed that a few people on this board are very against anything that has to do with God or Christianity. Why then do you choose to post on and read a board that was started by an author who says in an article she resently wrote "It's true that as parents we are made in the image of God..."? Isn't this board going against something you very strongly believe?

 

I seriously am just curious. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have nothing against people who aren't Christians being here. I just wonder why the adamantly anti-Christian people come here at all.

[JenneinCA]

At a guess for the same reason that people who don't follow the Well Trained Mind come here. To talk about homeschooling.

[mommaduck]

At a guess for the same reason that people who don't follow the Well Trained Mind come here. To talk about homeschooling.

 

There are people here that are adamantly against TWTM? :001_huh: I must be hiding under a rock then.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Why then do you choose to post on and read a board that was started by an author who says in an article she resently wrote "It's true that as parents we are made in the image of God..."?

 

It's because there are no other homeschool forums online that move as quick or are as devoted to choosing books and programs. There are no other forums where non-unschoolers will never hear, "That's why I unschool! Maybe you'd like to try it?"

 

I seriously am just curious.

 

I believe you, Luanne. But every time I see this qualifier, I think some archaeologist decoding this message board in 500 years is going to believe it's code for, "Wear your flame retardant suit! Topic war ahoy!"

[Karen in CO]

To talk about homeschooling.

And to talk to homeschoolers. Besides, I don't discriminate based on religion and neither does this board. You know, we even let people come here who don't homeschool and people whose kids have all graduated and people whose kids are too young to homeschool. Diversity.

 

btw - Did I miss the statement of faith requirement for joining the board?

[mommaduck]

I do know of a very secular homeschooling board. But last I knew, it was small and definitely didn't get the amount of conversation as we get here. And heavens, who wants everyone to always agree with them? That would make life very boring.

[Karen in CO]

 

"Wear your flame retardant suit! Topic war ahoy!"

:lol:

[Karen sn]

There are people here that are adamantly against TWTM? :001_huh: I must be hiding under a rock then.

 

"Not following" and "being against" are two very different things.

[KidsHappen]

I am pretty sure that SWB herself has said that this is not a Christian board but instead a WTM board. Lots of secular people use and would like to discuss TWTM and classical education. I don't consider people's religion to be a significant factor in whether I wish to socialize with them or be part of their community or have them be part of mine. I try to concentrate of our similarities not our differences but I also enjoy that I have had the opportunity to learn about so many POVs different than mine own and ones that I may not be exposed to IRL.

[OrganicAnn]

Secular doesn't mean anti-Christian. There are lots of Christians that choose secular material, because they don't want someone else's ideas of religion. Secular generally means without religious references.

[Luanne]

["I believe you, Luanne. But every time I see this qualifier, I think some archaeologist decoding this message board in 500 years is going to believe it's code for, "Wear your flame retardant suit! Topic war ahoy!" "]

 

I understand 100% why you feel that way. I do too at times when it comes to other people's posts ... particularly if I don't know that person at all.

[chiguirre]

I've noticed that a few people on this board are very against anything that has to do with God or Christianity. Why then do you choose to post on and read a board that was started by an author who says in an article she resently wrote "It's true that as parents we are made in the image of God..."? Isn't this board going against something you very strongly believe?

 

Because while SWB is a Christian, the WTM boards are not. There is no SOF required and non-Christians are welcome to post. We're not the majority, but we're not unwelcome (at least by the host).

 

Thank you SWB for sponsoring this resource!

[Karen sn]

I've noticed that a few people on this board are very against anything that has to do with God or Christianity. Why then do you choose to post on and read a board that was started by an author who says in an article she resently wrote "It's true that as parents we are made in the image of God..."? Isn't this board going against something you very strongly believe?

 

I seriously am just curious. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have nothing against people who aren't Christians being here. I just wonder why the adamantly anti-Christian people come here at all.

 

Adamantly anti-Christian?

I have yet to see anyone anti-Christian.

I am a non-Christian and my best friend is a Christian.

It does not mean AT ALL that I am against her or her beliefs. I just follow a different code. That's all it means.

 

Are you saying that you have actually noticed anti-Christian sentiment here?

[Luanne]

btw - Did I miss the statement of faith requirement for joining the board?

 

 

I was just thinking about this due to a recent thread that became an argument and one person was very adamantly against anything or anyone Christian (or at least it seemed that way to me) and I wondered how they could feel that strongly and still come here. I guess it made me wonder if they weren't here mainly to try to stir up stuff. Just my perception.

[Jenny in Atl]

I don't think most of the secular posters here are against anything related to G-d or Christianity. I agree with the others, this is the largest and most prolific homeschooling board on the net, so it's natural that you will have a mix of faiths, beliefs & views. I for one can't see how anyone can remove the subject of faith/G-d from life; It has effected just about everything we do (history, culture, etc).

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By orgainc Ann

Secular doesn't mean anti-Christian. There are lots of Christians that choose secular material, because they don't want someone else's ideas of religion. Secular generally means without religious references.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Luanne]

I very much enjoy this board. I like the way it moves fast and people actually respond to other people's questions. I don't know of any board like it. I enjoy the diversity of the people on this board. It helps give you more than one perspective. I have nothing against anyone on this board.

 

I mentioned in my other response my reason for asking this question.

[Denise in Florida]

I have found these boards to be very helpful on many topics.

 

The following is my opinion: :001_smile:

 

I am a Christian but that is not the reason I home school. I prefer curriculum that focuses on the subject topic and allows me to provide the faith/worldview, therefore I usually avoid "Christian" curriculum. I don't mind when others choose Christian books or discuss them, sometimes I find great ideas.

 

I am a relaxed (nearly unschooler) but appreciate the views and guidance I have found in WTM and these boards.

 

I have been a life-long Christian, I pursue a rigorous study of the Bible, am usually active in the live of my church, and I have a strong faith. That said some Christians manage to offend me, I choose to 'let it go' and quietly go on living my faith.

 

I have been deeply impressed by the commitment and warm responses of the ladies (and gentlemen) here.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

To talk about homeschooling, to learn about curriculum (which is quickly becoming and frustrating and expensive habit!), to learn about other people, other opinions, though I DO tire of the endless evolution/creation arguments.

 

I feel like it is easier to 'walk away' from rudeness here. IRL I am completely surrounded by xians. At a homeschooling mom's get together one of them was IN MY FACE, toe-to-toe asking me, "why aren't you a xian?" I was nice enough NOT to say, "because of people like YOU!" Instead I just replied, "I grew up in it and it and I just never believed it."

 

For the most part, on this board, I find people to be much more civilized than in real life.

[Carrie12345]

I've noticed that a few people on this board are very against anything that has to do with God or Christianity. Why then do you choose to post on and read a board that was started by an author who says in an article she resently wrote "It's true that as parents we are made in the image of God..."? Isn't this board going against something you very strongly believe?

 

I seriously am just curious. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have nothing against people who aren't Christians being here. I just wonder why the adamantly anti-Christian people come here at all.

 

I don't understand the question. Can you tell me who (or what type of person) is *against* all things Christian? I mean, I don't believe in Christianity, but anti-Christian?

[KidsHappen]

Oh, and I wanted to add that I have learned more about Christianity here and had more productive and informing conversations with Chirstians here than anywhere else in my life. I do agree that it is easier to have civil conversations regarding religion here than in real life because people seem to take things less personally and they have time to think about and carefully consider their answers plus other people can join in and maybe explain things in a different way.

Edited July 25, 2009 by KidsHappen

[Luanne]

I don't understand the question. Can you tell me who (or what type of person) is *against* all things Christian? I mean, I don't believe in Christianity, but anti-Christian?

 

 

I would rather not mention who that comes across VERY anti-Christian. It is this person that I wonder about ... that is, why they come here at all if they truly feel the way they appear to.

 

I think SWB did an excellent job not only with this board, but with her book and how it is very usable (in my opinion) for everyone regardless of their beliefs. I also think in general to function (in a healthy way) in society in general you need to at least be tolerant of other beliefs enough not to bash others for not believing your exact same way. This board has excellent balance.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Luanne
spelling error

[kalanamak]

Isn't this board going against something you very strongly believe?

 

 

Hate the sin, love the sinner.

:lol:

[phathui5]

(Christian here)

 

I didn't think this was a Christian board. I thought it was for anyone interested or participating in classical education.

[LUV2EDU]

I've noticed that a few people on this board are very against anything that has to do with God or Christianity. Why then do you choose to post on and read a board that was started by an author who says in an article she resently wrote "It's true that as parents we are made in the image of God..."? Isn't this board going against something you very strongly believe?

 

I seriously am just curious. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have nothing against people who aren't Christians being here. I just wonder why the adamantly anti-Christian people come here at all.

 

Are you referring to this thread?http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110163

 

This is the only thread so far where a poster prefers not to purchase a curriculum that states the religious faith of the author. However, the poster did state that they wouldn't purchase from an anti-religious publisher either.

 

If not, then disregard.

[Carrie12345]

I would rather not mention who that comes across VERY anti-Christian. It is this person that I wonder about ... that is, why they come here at all if they truly feel the way they appear to.

 

I think SWB did an excellent job not only with this board, but with her book and how it is very usable (in my opinion) for everyone regardless of their beliefs. I also think in general to function (in a healthy way) in society in general you need to at least be tolerant of other beliefs enough not to bash others for not believing your exact same way. This board has excellent balance.

 

Okay. I *was thinking maybe you had a particular person in mind. Not that I have any idea WHO, but I figured there had to be something specific in there. ;)

 

I just can't imagine feeling as though TWTM had nothing to offer me because the author is Christian. That'd be like saying my mother has nothing to offer me! :lol:

[astrid]

I would rather not mention who that comes across VERY anti-Christian. It is this person that I wonder about ... that is, why they come here at all if they truly feel the way they appear to.

 

 

So, perhaps a PM to that person might shed more light on your question? There are literally hundreds of people on this board. Why would the actions/comments of one person lead you to question the motives of everyone who isn't explicitly Christian?

 

Astrid

[elegantlion]

Because while SWB is a Christian, the WTM boards are not. There is no SOF required and non-Christians are welcome to post. We're not the majority, but we're not unwelcome (at least by the host).

 

Thank you SWB for sponsoring this resource!

 

 

:iagree: I am a christian. I enjoy the diversity this board creates because it is NOT defined as christians only.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I would rather not mention who that comes across VERY anti-Christian. It is this person that I wonder about ... that is, why they come here at all if they truly feel the way they appear to.

 

I think SWB did an excellent job not only with this board, but with her book and how it is very usable (in my opinion) for everyone regardless of their beliefs. I also think in general to function (in a healthy way) in society in general you need to at least be tolerant of other beliefs enough not to bash others for not believing your exact same way. This board has excellent balance.

If you have a problem with a particular poster, and do not wish to discuss the matter with him/her privately, you may find the "ignore" feature helpful.

 

Depending on POV one could just as easily ask "I just wonder why the adamantly anti-anything but chrisitanity people come here at all" since it is clearly not an exclusively christian board.

 

If I were to say, "This board is biased toward conservative, republican, christian lines of thought" dozens of posters would pop up saying how they've noticed just the opposite. The pros and cons would be pretty predictable to anyone on the board for any length of time, with those who hold to one belief system noticing persecution against themselves by the holders of what they believe to be the opposite belief system and vice versa.

[LibraryLover]

While I do not believe in divinity, I am not anti-religion or Christian. In fact, I don't believe one can be well-educated without understanding and caring about religion. Ftr, I am a very moral person, just not moral because God tells me to be.

 

Learning how to learn isn't limited to people who believe in God, is it?

 

The ideas here are good, and I don't get from the books that the WTM authors write only for Christians.

Edited July 25, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Dirtroad]

Secular doesn't mean anti-Christian. There are lots of Christians that choose secular material, because they don't want someone else's ideas of religion. Secular generally means without religious references.

 

"without relegious references.... " can't be done although we as a culture pat ourselves on the back for a successful job.

 

Every aspect of morality and dealing with issues involving the world, neighborhood or family have a ROOT in relegion. We like to pick & chose which we prefer... but without the relegions pointing us to these issues... we are without an anchor and make horrific decisions. (or we just chose one relegions view over another and mask it in secularism).

[Dirtroad]

(Christian here)

 

I didn't think this was a Christian board. I thought it was for anyone interested or participating in classical education.

 

I don't think she was refereing to the board being Christian... but often people who are opposed to a faith do not tend to listen to the counsel of those who follow that faith... or respect their guidance and decisions enough to consult their viewpoint.

 

I have met people who follow another reason for ANTI-christian reasons. Perhaps it is due to a bad experience, defiance or anger... but they chose the route in hostility & defiance. (knew a man who converted to Catholicism to spite his Jewish family) I read work by a lady who was ATHIEST b/c of ill-treatment by muslims in her native home (Somalia).... but she mistrust all relegions as a result (this greatly isolates her from her family).

 

However, that being said, I believe most of us are led to our faith through culture, life changing experiences, or the discipleship of someone we love, admire & trust. (regardless of name of that faith)

[mommaduck]

(Christian here)

 

I didn't think this was a Christian board. I thought it was for anyone interested or participating in classical education.

:iagree: And I appreciate the diversity. Why? Because even Christians can't all agree on what constitutes valid Christianity. And on a Christian board, there are going to be those that slam others for holding a different view or voicing that view simply so others understand that not all Christians do abc...some might do xyz and others may not do either or do both.

 

Also, not all my friends are Christian. I get along rather well with some Jewish, Muslims, Pagans, and Agnostics as well as some "fringe" Christians.

[TravelingChris]

As a Christian, it doesn't bother me that non-Christians are here. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. Occasionally there is someone posting here who I question their motivation for posting. Two of those people I have put on my ignore list. Other threads I simply skip. No reason to get into fight.

[Karen in CO]

"without relegious references.... " can't be done although we as a culture pat ourselves on the back for a successful job.

 

Every aspect of morality and dealing with issues involving the world, neighborhood or family have a ROOT in relegion. We like to pick & chose which we prefer... but without the relegions pointing us to these issues... we are without an anchor and make horrific decisions. (or we just chose one relegions view over another and mask it in secularism).

 

wow - I really disagree with this. Religion does not have the market cornered on morality. I am of the opinion that people are moral and created religions originally because they didn't understand the world around them.

 

But now this conversation is digressing away from the original question. If everyone agreed, this would be a very boring board. Maybe that's why this board is so much more active than any other home schooling board.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Thank you, Karen.

 

I respect that others feel like they need religion as an anchor for their morality, but please respect the fact that I do not.

[Pip]

Well, as a Christian, I appreciate being somewhere where I don't have do deal with the unasked question - "are you the right type of Chrisitian?" When you live in the buckle of the Bible Belt it is assumed that we all walk the same walk. Very frustrating.

[Dirtroad]

wow - I really disagree with this. Religion does not have the market cornered on morality. I am of the opinion that people are moral and created religions originally because they didn't understand the world around them.

 

But now this conversation is digressing away from the original question. If everyone agreed, this would be a very boring board. Maybe that's why this board is so much more active than any other home schooling board.

 

Lots of "thinking" going on over here!;)

[Dirtroad]

Thank you, Karen.

 

I respect that others feel like they need religion as an anchor for their morality, but please respect the fact that I do not.

 

Whoa, I didn't say it like that and am not implying a specific group. Also, disagreement with effort to explain is by NO means disrespect!

 

I just mean that general rules of conduct in a culture have been set down by society through relegious instruction... (using Christian references here b/c US culture has more influence from it) Do not murder, Do not steal.... such as these. (not specifically these).

 

If we all lived well & in peace/harmony... we wouldn't need those rules to be written and we wouldn't need reminders. But we aren't peaceful by nature (people argue, condemn, fight, kill, rape, steal, gossip, manipulate, misinterpret, lie, pout, and sadly can be known to seek revenge) and we must have these anchors to keep us moral. The anchors remind of of what is NOT right... to love, serve, and do the opposite of instinct at our core.

 

They are NOT common morality. Many cultures feel murder (for a good meal or a sacrifice for fertility, etc) are GREAT things. And in general our society in the USA feels stealing is wrong.. but this is shifting b/c today we try to justify it more than ever. Still, the common thought of it is wrong to steal does prevail. Your world view is influenced by the relegion that is prevalent in your culture (or the lack of one in some areas).

 

No, I don't think we are moral in our core or by nature... but I think we are taught to be moral by parents (hopefully), friends, society... and that morality is rooted in the predominant relegion of our culture. Not that all relegions are perfect and without differences.... but they do give us general principles that run through our cultures.... help determine our views and morality.

 

So even those who are secular or athiestic benefit greatly from societies who have been taught that murder is wrong... stealing is wrong...(to use same examples).

 

Somehow my comment was tied to the original discussion....

Edited July 25, 2009 by Dirtroad

[ThatCyndiGirl]

It seems like what brings us together is homeschooling. For the most part we agree that it is a lifestyle that we wish to support so we come here for that. Our beliefs on various topics (politics, religion, whether or not we are personally offended by seeing a mom in a bikini) don't always agree, but we mostly take what we can use and toss the rest.

 

 

It just seems easier to do that here than IRL. I am not "out" to everyone in my local homeschooling community as a non-believer. I do a lot of biting my tongue IRL and sometimes I just tire of it. It is hard to find secular homeschoolers in my area. (bible belt)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I am grateful that there is no statement of faith at the TWTM message boards.:) I find it disheartening when I find statements of faith in homeschool groups since there are many flavors of Christianity and various religions. IMHO I think it better to leave religious education to the parents and to the particular faith a person subscribes to. I personally would like to see homeschool groups that instead find a common denominator such as a statement of educational goals and expected behavior/rules.

 

In regards to secular educational materials, I like them for all educational subjects except religion so that I can taylor religious education to my liking.;) I think this is why many, not all, do prefer secular materials.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Carol in Cal.]

...but I have to say, SWB has never defined TWTM in terms of Christianity.

 

There are a lot of other approaches to homeschooling that do this--that teach everything through the lens of Christianity, to the extent of putting Bible verses on math fact sheets--but TWTM has never been like that. It is undeniably Christian-friendly, but it's not specifically Christian.

 

So I don't really see what the problem is for a non-Christian to participate on this board, from that standpoint.

 

There are Christians on this board who seem to find it more and less easy to get along with non-Christians, but SWB is in the 'easy' category, IMO, for sure.

[Donna T.]

...but I have to say, SWB has never defined TWTM in terms of Christianity.

 

 

 

That is very true. I've been on TWTM board since there has been a TWTM board. She has never (ok, never that I know of..., certainly I've never seen it) defined TWTM or this board in religious terms. I love relating to Susan's ideas, her advice, and others who have been in one way or another impressed by her work. I really enjoy the diversity on this board. I'm awful for coming into a discussion late and making some stupid comment and sometimes what I write doesn't come close to expressing what I really meant... but hey! This is a public board! Who knows how many people are ignoring me? I'm a Christian but regretfully, I don't always sound very much like Christ.

 

I was on another board recently, and someone asked about Susan's beliefs and another poster responded by saying that Susan is not a Christian and she presented Susan's beliefs about certain issues, as evidence that she's not a Christian. I was floored because I've read Susan's books, I've been on this board forever, I read her blog... I've never heard/read her discuss such issues. But, she's "not a Christian" and this person knew all about it somehow.

 

It's ridiculous. I almost asked about it here but thought that would be rude. And, it would have been.

[OrganicAnn]

"without relegious references.... " can't be done although we as a culture pat ourselves on the back for a successful job.

 

Every aspect of morality and dealing with issues involving the world, neighborhood or family have a ROOT in relegion. We like to pick & chose which we prefer... but without the relegions pointing us to these issues... we are without an anchor and make horrific decisions. (or we just chose one relegions view over another and mask it in secularism).

 

I disagree or you are putting a strange interpretation on my words. You can have a math book without religious references. You can have a grammar book without religious references. You can have Christmas songs that are secular - Frosty the Snowman. That is called 'secular'. The person using the math book, grammar book or sing the sappy song may be anything from ultra christian to atheist. I think people are using secular to refer to the person and not the objects (education material). Generally you don't call a person secular. I think you are getting secular mixed up with 'atheists', 'agnosticism', religious apathy, non christian, and/or many other labels.

[Peela]

I've noticed that a few people on this board are very against anything that has to do with God or Christianity. Why then do you choose to post on and read a board that was started by an author who says in an article she resently wrote "It's true that as parents we are made in the image of God..."? Isn't this board going against something you very strongly believe?

 

I seriously am just curious. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have nothing against people who aren't Christians being here. I just wonder why the adamantly anti-Christian people come here at all.

 

Lol. Love that term "ultra secular". What does that mean exactly?

I figured your question wasnt addressing me because I am not against God, Christians or Christianity....but I guess I am still ultra secular, although plain secular would do :) (I never even knew I was that till I came here- in my world, I am normal :)).

 

But in answer to your question....this is a homeschooling board that is unique in its ability to accomodate a wide variety of people because it focuses on the desire to homeschool to a high academic standard. The focus is not on the religion, even though that may be primary for many people. I love that these boards can make me feel at home and comfortable even with people I would really have nothing to do with in real life. I love the inclusiveness of these boards. I figure if someone is anti Christian and they come here, they will probably not feel comfortable here for very long, but then again, maybe they will, who knows. Does it matter, really? They will be teh odd one out. To me its an opportunity to mix with an international community of mothers (some dads of course) with something in common- the deep desire to do the best by our kids. I prefer to see the commonality between us. You never know, the tolerance most people express here may just rub off on someone who has an axe to grind about Christianity.

[Blessedfamily]

..... Because even Christians can't all agree on what constitutes valid Christianity. And on a Christian board, there are going to be those that slam others for holding a different view or voicing that view simply so others understand that not all Christians do abc...some might do xyz and others may not do either or do both.

 

........

 

"Slam" is right. If, on a Christian homeschooling board, topics were restricted to homeschooling curriculum, it might be tamer. But allow the topic of biblical views to be discussed freely, and I gaurantee it would get just as heated as this board. I HAVE SEEN IT RECENTLY in a link someone sent me asking my opinion on a biblical topic.

[hornblower]

No, I don't think we are moral in our core or by nature...

 

I do.

 

I think morality comes to us as an evolutionary adaptation.

Some quickies with more on that view:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/morality-originates-in-re_b_185217.html

 

http://richarddawkins.net/article,1412,An-Atheist-Responds,Christopher-Hitchens

 

And some vids:

Christopher Hitchens on the morals of an atheist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjhL1xlkt5U (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VraeYsXQHAg&feature=related (part 2)

 

As to why atheists come here, it's the best place I've found yet to learn about resources, even though I use almost entirely secular materials.

 

And I don't think the WTM is a religious book at all - though I do disregard sections of the book which deal with discipline or parenting for instance.

 

And to me there's a huge difference between reading a Christian author's book about education (SWB's WTM), or watching a Catholic nun's videos about western art (Sister Wendy) and using a science curriculum written by someone who believes in ID or young earth creationism (just a random example :001_smile:)

The first 2 are completely fine, the third is out of the question.

[Barb_]

I was just thinking about this due to a recent thread that became an argument and one person was very adamantly against anything or anyone Christian (or at least it seemed that way to me) and I wondered how they could feel that strongly and still come here. I guess it made me wonder if they weren't here mainly to try to stir up stuff. Just my perception.

 

Maybe the next time you wonder something about an individual you PM this person and ask rather than posting a general, "why do some people come on here and yadda yadda yadda....?" 'Cause that stirs up stuff.

 

Barb

[woolybear]

I'm not sure I would say I am ultra secular, but I am not Christian and religion is not a part of my hsing.

 

The reasons I love these boards:

I can get so many different perspectives on something.

I can get answers fast!

It has opened my mind to so much.

I learn, learn, learn all the time here. (From different people, different ways to homeschool, different curriculums and on and on.)

 

 

Woolybear

[LibraryLover]

I love Sister Wendy! :iagree:

 

 

 

[And to me there's a huge difference between reading a Christian author's book about education (SWB's WTM), or watching a Catholic nun's videos about western art (Sister Wendy) and using a science curriculum written by someone who believes in ID or young earth creationism (just a random example :001_smile:)

The first 2 are completely fine, the third is out of the question.