Okay, so this just made me very sad.......

[Home'scool]

I hesistated to post this because I don't want to be inflamitory, but it just keeps going around and around in my head. I see this issue as more of a parenting one than a lifestyle issue.

 

I took my 2 daughters into the city this weekend. The area where we visited happened to be holding it's annual Gay Pride Parade. We ended up staying and watching for a bit. Everybody was fine, no indecency, just a lot of groups marching by and everyone having a good time.

 

There was a lot more public displays of affection than I normally see in the city, but it was all of the holding hands or quick kisses type. I got the sense that everyone was feeling a bit more relaxed in public because it was Gay Pride day.

 

Anywho, we took public transportation home, and a lot of the people who had been participating in the parade were on the train. Some were sitting with arms linked, or interacting in a manner that you could tell they were a couple, but again, nothing overt or extreme.

 

There was a mother on the train with her kids also. She was FURIOUS that she ended up on this train. She must not have realized, like me, that that day was Gay Pride day and that gay people would be out and about and open about it.

 

The train was packed so she was standing. She had her daughter's face (maybe age 7?) pressed tight up against her leg. I was sitting just a few feet away. At one point the daughter peeked out from her mother's leg and looked at me. When kids look at me I usually smile at them. This girl absolutely glowered at me! I didnt' realize at the time the whole issue with the mother, I just kept wondering why any time I caught this girl's eye that she would shoot me a nasty look.

 

It was only after we got off the train and I heard the mother complaining to her older daughter (age 13?) about the situation that I realized it. The younger girl probably thought I was gay, too, and because of how the mother was responding was shooting me nasty looks. It just struck me how young she was to hate someone on sight.

 

When we were walking to the exit I heard the older daughter say "Monkeys and fish are smarter than them!" -- I am assuming this is the old argument that homosexuality isn't usually found in the animal kingdom. It made me sad to think that at such a young age she would have such a disparaging opinion of people she had never even met. I wanted to pull her aside and say "You are very young, and someday you will get out into the world and meet all sorts of people. Some will be very smart, very creative, and very kind. What will you do when you find out that some of these very people are gay?"

 

The mother then said something that made me laugh out loud from her stupidity. She said "I never would have got on the train if I knew so many of those people would be on! They should have made an announcement or something!" I kept thinking "and what would that announcement sound like? Attention all passengers! There is a high probability that gay people will be on the trains! Please plan accordingly. Attention ....."

[specialmama]

That is sad. Regardless of whether (man I can't spell today... that does not look right LOL) someone believes being gay is wrong or not, people ought to show love and not hate. Those kids will grow up and likely show hate. Look at their "wonderful" example. Mind you, she may have got home and smashed her head on the wall because she couldn't believe how ill equiped she was in dealing with that. Who knows.

[Karen sn]

I kept thinking "and what would that announcement sound like? Attention all passengers! There is a high probability that gay people will be on the trains! Please plan accordingly. Attention ....."

 

This part's funny......

[oliveview]

That is very sad...I am speechless...

[asta]

That is sad.

 

The woman probably would have had a heart attack on the spot if she'd accidentally gone through the parade in the Castro (SF). It's not very tame.

 

 

a

[Shannon C]

I would be a little shocked too(like this mom) especially since my kids have probably never seen a gay person that they are aware of. Of course there couldn't have been an announcement on the train, but I am not sure exactly what I would have done in that situation. I would probably instictively want to shelter them. I wouldn't know what to do if a bunch of heteros were showing a lot of affection in front of my kids either. I don't teach hate, period, though.

[Impish]

Incredible.

 

It brings to mind (mine anyways) how before the Civil Rights Movement, the reaction would have been the same if that Mom had ended up on the wrong train car. No, I'm not saying that this particular mom is racist, but it seems to me that the reaction would have been the same.

[bettyandbob]

That is really sad. I've always thought loving your neighbor is the most important thing you can do. You can disagree on whether sexuality is a choice but you can show public respect. The importance of public respect for others is demonstrated by you experience--the child was judging you and you were not even part of the group the mom was upset about. That is so sad. I'm sure a family that is that ready to teach hate probably has other groups of people to hate too.

[Pam Wilhelm]

Do you remember the musical "South Pacific" where the young "Liutellant" sings about hate and prejudice? You've got to be carefully taught to hate....

 

 

 

so true.

[Home'scool]

I was especially saddened to hear the older girl say the comment about the monkeys and fish.

 

I knew she was just parroting what the parents had said. What a terrible way to teach your children about what you don't agree with. As a parent I try (although I know I don't always succeed!) to explain in a reasonable manner why we don't agree with someone's behavior.

 

I also always try to make it clear to my kids that they might end up forming a different opinion than me. And that is okay too.

 

If I feel I truly have a case against something (ex: smoking. I can give facts, figures, and show how it will truly harm them) then I lay it out and tell them that they should never never never do it.

 

But something like this? All she was doing was teaching hate and intolerance. And with ridiculous arguments.

[Brindee]

If I feel I truly have a case against something (ex: smoking. I can give facts' date=' figures, and show how it will truly harm them) then I lay it out and tell them that they should never never never do it.

 

But something like this? All she was doing was teaching hate and intolerance. And with ridiculous arguments.[/quote']I agree. If she is a Christian though, maybe she feels she DOES have a case. The Bible speaks about homosexuality as unnatural and wrong.

 

HOWEVER, as a Christian, I see the example Jesus gave on loving others. You don't love the sin, but you can love and pray for the person!

 

A question I would have for her is: Is teaching intolerance and hate for others any better?

[Mrs Mungo]

Do you remember the musical "South Pacific" where the young "Liutellant" sings about hate and prejudice? You've got to be carefully taught to hate....

 

 

 

so true.

 

:iagree: I always think of South Pacific when I hear stories like this.

[MomLovesClassics]

Ok. Not trying to be mean here. It does not matter if one approves of how other people look and behave in public. Short of someone stripping, having sex, comittng a crime or violent act etc., people need to be treated with respect. The mother was very disrespectful, and allowed her daughter to act disrespectful. It is understandable they felt some discomfort. But the I am better than everyone else attitude is not nice. At home behind closed doors is the place to express yourself not in public. I attempt to smile and be nice to everyone, it is not up to me to choose how they live their life. Gay people exist in the world.

I am so sorry you ran into such rude people like that. Put it behind you, some people just do not know any better. The mother needs to teach the girl some manners. Sorry it just burns me up how some people can be.

[Mekanamom]

I was especially saddened to hear the older girl say the comment about the monkeys and fish.

 

 

I agree with you...

 

Besides, that girl is going to be so surprised if/when she goes off to college and learns about the bonobos.

[Desert Rat]

This is why I teach my boys tolerance. Above all, tolerance.

[Ibbygirl]

That is sad.

 

The woman probably would have had a heart attack on the spot if she'd accidentally gone through the parade in the Castro (SF). It's not very tame.

 

 

a

 

 

Fantasy Fest down here in Keys is pretty rough too. I won't even go to Key West anywhere near Fantasy fest anymore because it's X-rated!! :eek:

 

This story is so sad. My absolute favorite cousin is gay. I love him to death and would stand by him and defend him to the death. I don't see him in terms of gay or not gay. He is my cousin, he's my blood, my family.

 

That said, I take a Biblical view on homosexuality and I do believe that it is not God's plan, but neither is alcoholism, adultery, stealing, lying etc. I don't see it as any different than any other sin that people are bound by. I don't think that homosexuality defines a person either, it's just what they are struggling with. I know that the homoesexual agenda IS to define it as just a part of who they are and that they are born that way, but I don't buy it. Any more than I would buy alcoholics needing their own parade to march for rights or gamblers.

 

Sin is sin. We live in a fallen world. Heterosexuals struggle with sexual sin too. It's not an uncommon thing in this world, but to hold your sin up high on a pedastle (sp?) and ask everyone to say that your sin is great and natural... well, they can keep trying but it is not going to change the fact that it's still sin.

 

I love my cousin to death and he is my favorite person to hang out with. I trust him with my kids and I don't let his homesexuality affect how I treat him any more than I would let another relative's alcoholism affect how I treat them. Love the sinner hate the sin. That's my belief. I pray for my cousin and I do pray that he will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus, but until then, I will keep loving on him and being the best cousin that I can to him. :)

[Night Elf]

Incredible.

 

It brings to mind (mine anyways) how before the Civil Rights Movement, the reaction would have been the same if that Mom had ended up on the wrong train car. No, I'm not saying that this particular mom is racist, but it seems to me that the reaction would have been the same.

 

:iagree: Not racist, but bigots. Considering the hate crimes against gay people, I absolutely believe these were the same types of reactions from the civil rights movements. The only difference is that black people couldn't hide in regular society and gay people can. But just like the peaceful protests that Martin Luther King Jr. encouraged, gay rights people are doing the same thing. And the haters are the ones acting violent and ignorant. As it's always been in the world, as it is now, and as it will always be. Maybe my children will be in the group that will change the world.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I would be a little shocked too(like this mom) especially since my kids have probably never seen a gay person that they are aware of. Of course there couldn't have been an announcement on the train, but I am not sure exactly what I would have done in that situation. I would probably instictively want to shelter them. I wouldn't know what to do if a bunch of heteros were showing a lot of affection in front of my kids either. I don't teach hate, period, though.

 

See, I find this a little contradictory...you say you would want to shelter your kids from seeing real! life! homosexuals! Then you say you don't teach hate. Maybe feeling the need to shelter your kids from people does not equate with hate, but it seems awfully close. You might want to reconsider how you approach topics like this.

[OH_Homeschooler]

 

Sin is sin. We live in a fallen world. Heterosexuals struggle with sexual sin too. It's not an uncommon thing in this world, but to hold your sin up high on a pedastle (sp?) and ask everyone to say that your sin is great and natural... well, they can keep trying but it is not going to change the fact that it's still sin.

 

Love the sinner hate the sin. That's my belief. I pray for my cousin and I do pray that he will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus, but until then, I will keep loving on him and being the best cousin that I can to him. :)

 

/sarcasm/ Wow, does your cousin know how lucky he is that you tolerate him and his sin? /sarcasm/

[Brindee]

See, I find this a little contradictory...you say you would want to shelter your kids from seeing real! life! homosexuals! Then you say you don't teach hate. Maybe feeling the need to shelter your kids from people does not equate with hate, but it seems awfully close. You might want to reconsider how you approach topics like this.

 

/sarcasm/ Wow, does your cousin know how lucky he is that you tolerate him and his sin? /sarcasm/

Having a rough day???:001_huh:

[Impish]

I love my cousin to death and he is my favorite person to hang out with. I trust him with my kids and I don't let his homesexuality affect how I treat him any more than I would let another relative's alcoholism affect how I treat them. Love the sinner hate the sin. That's my belief. I pray for my cousin and I do pray that he will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus, but until then, I will keep loving on him and being the best cousin that I can to him. :)

You're a better woman than I. I would have no problem having gay friends over, and even had a 'manny' years ago that was gay when I was a single parent working nights. There's no way I'd have someone that was actively addicted (ie not committed to sobriety, I know that an alcoholic is an alcoholic regardless of if they're drinking or not) be alone with my children, ever...in fact, I have serious doubts that I'd have them to my home unless it was clear that they were to be sober...and that goes even more so for say, my SIL that's a crack addict and proud of it. I wouldn't have her near my home for anything, because she's proven in the past, before she was supposedly using, that she has no hesitation about stealing from our home. It wouldn't matter if she was 'sober' for a visit, I wouldn't trust her not to break in to our home at a later date and rob us. My dh feels even more strongly about it.

[kalanamak]

 

When we were walking to the exit I heard the older daughter say "Monkeys and fish are smarter than them!" "

 

But not birds:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=143&art_id=qw110386674585B251

 

although, they may have had more of a Boston marriage:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_marriage

 

Anyone know any old ladies like that growing up? There was an ancient, ancient pair down the street from me....best friends forever, neither ever married. I still have the little gingham apron one sewed for me, and for years and years had the fancy valentine the other gave me when I was but 4. I loved their Berber rug and ribbon candy in Depression glass on the coffee table.

[Tree House Academy]

It is called prejudice. When I was kid, my dad did his BEST to teach my siblings and I racial predjudice (didn't work...my sister married an African American and he has two bi-racial grand daughters!). That mother is teaching her kids to hate people because they are gay. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you believe it is against God or not, it is wrong to hate. Did Jesus not surround himself with sinners? Does God not teach us to love all people regardless of differences?

 

If there is one thing that I teach my children in life...just one thing...I hope it is that people are people just like them and we are to respect each and every human life.

[Cricket]

...

 

That said, I take a Biblical view on homosexuality and I do believe that it is not God's plan, but neither is alcoholism, adultery, stealing, lying etc. I don't see it as any different than any other sin that people are bound by. I don't think that homosexuality defines a person either, it's just what they are struggling with. I know that the homoesexual agenda IS to define it as just a part of who they are and that they are born that way, but I don't buy it. Any more than I would buy alcoholics needing their own parade to march for rights or gamblers.

 

Sin is sin. We live in a fallen world. Heterosexuals struggle with sexual sin too. It's not an uncommon thing in this world, but to hold your sin up high on a pedastle (sp?) and ask everyone to say that your sin is great and natural... well, they can keep trying but it is not going to change the fact that it's still sin.

 

...

 

:iagree: I teach my children what the Bible says about everything, homosexuality included. I explain how some people don't believe what the Bible says and not everyone is going to follow the Bible. We can pray for them but we shouldn't hate them or treat them with disrespect. I would avoid any gay pride parade however just because of the reputation of x-rated activities going on. It's the same way I would avoid certain beaches in Mexico and other places during Spring Break. :001_smile: The possibility of a little too much going on than I'd want my kids to see! If I happened to be on a subway with many gay couples, I can't imagine I'd make my kids cover their faces.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

/sarcasm/ Wow, does your cousin know how lucky he is that you tolerate him and his sin? /sarcasm/

 

Glad to see tolerance is alive and well.

[pqr]

Well I will say it. I would not want to be on that train if I had my children with me. I do not want to have to explain to my young children why two men are (your words) "sitting with arms linked, or interacting in a manner that you could tell they were a couple"

I will also say that this must have seen the most benign homosexual parade since Sam met Adam. Walking past one in DC and watching the odd one on the news it seems that the signs and behavior are generally more extreme than what you saw. But then again, as I said, maybe you came across the most benign one in recent history.

This is a bitter issue and I am shocked that you lambast people for their attitudes but do not see that your views are arguably just as intransigent. You say that "I see this issue as more of a parenting one than a lifestyle issue," many would disagree with you and that does not make them stupid or anything else.

You say "It made me sad to think that at such a young age she would have such a disparaging opinion of people she had never even met" I know many parents who would say that it is sad that you would take your children to, or allow them to watch, a homosexual rights parade. You can not argue for your view of tolerance on one side and then be equally intolerant of the views of others.

[Brindee]

 

You can not argue for your view of tolerance on one side and then be equally intolerant of the views of others.

But she was not being extreme or rude to others with her beliefs, as this woman was doing. She stated what they said, and was surprised the they would talk and act in such a rude manner. That was her beef, that she was surprised at their unnacceptance of others. She was tolerant of their views and actions, and did NOT act in like manner! So your statement doesn't follow through with what happened!

[pqr]

But she was not being extreme or rude to others with her beliefs, as this woman was doing. She stated what they said, and was surprised the they would talk and act in such a rude manner. That was her beef, that she was surprised at their unnacceptance of others. She was tolerant of their views and actions, and did NOT act in like manner! So your statement doesn't follow through with what happened!

 

 

Lets see she stated

 

"The mother then said something that made me laugh out loud from her stupidity"

 

additionally she had this desire to intefere with the way that another mother was raising her children when she said

 

"It made me sad to think that at such a young age she would have such a disparaging opinion of people she had never even met. I wanted to pull her aside and say "You are very young, and someday you will get out into the world and meet all sorts of people. Some will be very smart, very creative, and very kind. What will you do when you find out that some of these very people are gay?"

So yes she was being rude, there are many who would prevent their children looking at two men kissing or cuddling and there is nothing wrong with that. The implication that parents who feel that way or who get emotional about the issue are stupid, small minded or teaching their children to "hate" is both rude and ..... yes ...... intolerant.

[Brindee]

Lets see she stated

 

"The mother then said something that made me laugh out loud from her stupidity"

 

additionally she had this desire to intefere with the way that another mother was raising her children when she said

 

"It made me sad to think that at such a young age she would have such a disparaging opinion of people she had never even met. I wanted to pull her aside and say "You are very young, and someday you will get out into the world and meet all sorts of people. Some will be very smart, very creative, and very kind. What will you do when you find out that some of these very people are gay?"

 

So yes she was being rude, there are many who would prevent their children looking at two men kissing or cuddling and there is nothing wrong with that. The implication that parents who feel that way or who get emotional about the issue are stupid, small minded or teaching their children to "hate" is both rude and ..... yes ...... intolerant.

You and I see things from a different perspective. From other posts you've written, you seem to see others viewpoints in a negative light no matter what they say. So, I don't want to argue about it, cuz it won't do any good. Hopefully we can just agree to disagree.

[pqr]

You and I see things from a different perspective. From other posts you've written, you seem to see others viewpoints in a negative light no matter what they say. So, I don't want to argue about it, cuz it won't do any good. Hopefully we can just agree to disagree.

 

 

So be it.

 

Just call me the Simon Cowell of the boards:

 

"I think you have to judge everything based on your personal taste. And if that means being critical, so be it. I hate political correctness. I absolutely loathe it.†- S. Cowell

[Karenciavo]

Glad to see tolerance is alive and well.

 

[Julie in CA]

At home behind closed doors is the place to express yourself not in public.

*Exactly!* This is probably just how that mom felt about the folks displaying affection in public too. (just sayin'...)

[OH_Homeschooler]

 

Well, when I see bigoted behavior I do act in an intolerant manner. I do not pretend to be "tolerant" (a word I hate by the way...who wants to be tolerated anyway?) when it comes to this matter.

[specialmama]

This story is so sad. My absolute favorite cousin is gay. I love him to death and would stand by him and defend him to the death. I don't see him in terms of gay or not gay. He is my cousin, he's my blood, my family.

 

That said, I take a Biblical view on homosexuality and I do believe that it is not God's plan, but neither is alcoholism, adultery, stealing, lying etc. I don't see it as any different than any other sin that people are bound by. I don't think that homosexuality defines a person either, it's just what they are struggling with. I know that the homoesexual agenda IS to define it as just a part of who they are and that they are born that way, but I don't buy it. Any more than I would buy alcoholics needing their own parade to march for rights or gamblers.

 

Sin is sin. We live in a fallen world. Heterosexuals struggle with sexual sin too. It's not an uncommon thing in this world, but to hold your sin up high on a pedastle (sp?) and ask everyone to say that your sin is great and natural... well, they can keep trying but it is not going to change the fact that it's still sin.

 

I love my cousin to death and he is my favorite person to hang out with. I trust him with my kids and I don't let his homesexuality affect how I treat him any more than I would let another relative's alcoholism affect how I treat them. Love the sinner hate the sin. That's my belief. I pray for my cousin and I do pray that he will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus, but until then, I will keep loving on him and being the best cousin that I can to him. :)

 

I hear your honest love for your cousin, I think it's great. That's exactly how we ought to live.

 

/sarcasm/ Wow, does your cousin know how lucky he is that you tolerate him and his sin? /sarcasm/

 

That was a very hurtful and condescending thing to say. What would you have her do, take up the gay pride banner and embrace something she believes is wrong? I think what she said is absolutely beautiful and inspiring.

 

ETA: you were typing the above response as I was typing. Perhaps you could be more clear in your critique of her post. I took it as a slam, a mockery. I'm not sure, but I think the humour people found in it, was because you were being intolerant of Ibbygirl.

Edited May 20, 2009 by specialmama

[OH_Homeschooler]

I hear your honest love for your cousin, I think it's great. That's exactly how we ought to live.

 

 

 

That was a very hurtful and condescending thing to say. What would you have her do, take up the gay pride banner and embrace something she believes is wrong? I think what she said is absolutely beautiful and inspiring.

 

ETA: you were typing the above response as I was typing. Perhaps you could be more clear in your critique of her post. I took it as a slam, a mockery. I'm not sure, but I think the humour people found in it, was because you were being intolerant of Ibbygirl.

 

Yes, I see the humor people are finding in what I said. And that's fine. But I stand by what I said. The comment about loving your cousin even though he's gay, to me that is really not what love is about. You just love someone or you don't, you're not some amazing person because you can love them despite some perceived flaw.

 

And I am fine if people see my comment as intolerant. I am intolerant of a negative attitude--attitudes are a choice you make and can be changed.

 

On the other hand, I DO NOT believe that homosexuality is a choice-I believe it is biologically determined like the color of your skin (and honestly, even if it were a choice, who cares? Do heterosexuals feel bad for pecking their partners on the cheek in public? Then why should homosexuals?).

 

Just like a white person wouldn't say she loves her cousin even though he's black, I believe someone shouldn't say she loves her cousin even though she's gay.

 

Call me intolerant if you will, but like I said, on this matter I can handle that label.

[specialmama]

Yes, I see the humor people are finding in what I said. And that's fine. But I stand by what I said. The comment about loving your cousin even though he's gay, to me that is really not what love is about. You just love someone or you don't, you're not some amazing person because you can love them despite some perceived flaw.

 

And I am fine if people see my comment as intolerant. I am intolerant of a negative attitude--attitudes are a choice you make and can be changed.

 

On the other hand, I DO NOT believe that homosexuality is a choice-I believe it is biologically determined like the color of your skin (and honestly, even if it were a choice, who cares? Do heterosexuals feel bad for pecking their partners on the cheek in public? Then why should homosexuals?).

 

Just like a white person wouldn't say she loves her cousin even though he's black, I believe someone shouldn't say she loves her cousin even though she's gay.

 

Call me intolerant if you will, but like I said, on this matter I can handle that label.

Your "belief" that people are born gay brings many people's testimonies down, because they were gay, then they met Jesus. He changed them. It happens all. the. time.

 

Get your quotes straight. She never once said she loved him "even though" he's gay. She is saying something on a different level, she is saying she loves him AND he is gay, therefore she sees no reason why sexual orientation should matter in our relationships with one another. We should love people. We should love not only our family and friends, but neighbors, and people who do differently than us, and even people who offend us. So there. I love you.

[Debbie in OR]

"I think you have to judge everything based on your personal taste. And if that means being critical, so be it. I hate political correctness. I absolutely loathe it.†- S. Cowell

 

I'm going with pqr here. Political correctness is neutralizing us into automatons.

 

And, I too, read it as intolerant although much more subtle, i.e this is how they would be raised if I were doing it ("I wanted to pull her aside and say "You are very young, and someday you will get out into the world and meet all sorts of people. Some will be very smart, very creative, and very kind. What will you do when you find out that some of these very people are gay?").

 

They obviously believe differently than you. Being tolerant, you can release them to not believe like you. :001_smile:

[Cricket]

You just love someone or you don't, you're not some amazing person because you can love them despite some perceived flaw.

 

I'm glad some people choose to love me despite my very real flaws! :D

[OH_Homeschooler]

and even people who offend us. So there. I love you.

 

Nice! :thumbup1:

 

ETA: There is a ton of scientific evidence that backs up my "belief" but like I said I do not believe it should be considered "sinful" even if it is a choice. I know you MUST have heard this before...but do you eat shrimp? You know God hates that as much as he does homosexuality..., right?

 

My belief is that you should love your neighbor. End of story, no qualifications, not even prayers for them to change who they fundamentally are!

Edited May 20, 2009 by OH_Homeschooler

[Mari]

So be it.

 

Just call me the Simon Cowell of the boards:

 

"I think you have to judge everything based on your personal taste. And if that means being critical, so be it. I hate political correctness. I absolutely loathe it.†- S. Cowell

 

 

:iagree:

I've said it before on a different thread but I'll say it again here, "Giddy up, PQR!!!!"

[Impish]

I'm glad some people choose to love me despite my very real flaws! :D

You and me both, Cricket. Otherwise, I'd be single :D

 

Personally, I speak out against discrimination, bigotry, racism at any and every opportunity. Teaching a child to hate another person because they're different is disgusting. As many here have stated, they believe that homosexuality is a sin, just like greed, vanity, gluttony, stealing, gossip, lying, adultery...the list goes on and on and on. Frankly, it makes no more sense to me to be hateful to someone whose gay than it would to be teaching the child to hide their face and glare at those that are trading gossip on the subway. And doing the same any time a politician came on tv.

[Mommy22alyns]

:iagree: Not racist, but bigots. Considering the hate crimes against gay people, I absolutely believe these were the same types of reactions from the civil rights movements. The only difference is that black people couldn't hide in regular society and gay people can. But just like the peaceful protests that Martin Luther King Jr. encouraged, gay rights people are doing the same thing. And the haters are the ones acting violent and ignorant. As it's always been in the world, as it is now, and as it will always be. Maybe my children will be in the group that will change the world.

 

 

Yes, I completely agree! I wish more people's eyes would be opened to that parallel. This just saddens me so much.

 

 

Your "belief" that people are born gay brings many people's testimonies down, because they were gay, then they met Jesus. He changed them. It happens all. the. time.

 

And the testimonies of people who were "turned straight" by Jesus brings down the assertions of people who KNOW that they were born gay and nothing can change that. No matter how much they might want to (not that they need to, but they might be made to feel that they should), it cannot be changed. It happens... all. the. time.

[Melissa in FL]

Well I will say it. I would not want to be on that train if I had my children with me. I do not want to have to explain to my young children why two men are (your words) "sitting with arms linked, or interacting in a manner that you could tell they were a couple"

I will also say that this must have seen the most benign homosexual parade since Sam met Adam. Walking past one in DC and watching the odd one on the news it seems that the signs and behavior are generally more extreme than what you saw. But then again, as I said, maybe you came across the most benign one in recent history.

This is a bitter issue and I am shocked that you lambast people for their attitudes but do not see that your views are arguably just as intransigent. You say that "I see this issue as more of a parenting one than a lifestyle issue," many would disagree with you and that does not make them stupid or anything else.

You say "It made me sad to think that at such a young age she would have such a disparaging opinion of people she had never even met" I know many parents who would say that it is sad that you would take your children to, or allow them to watch, a homosexual rights parade. You can not argue for your view of tolerance on one side and then be equally intolerant of the views of others.

 

:iagree: I also think the mother on the train was trying to be respectful while still protecting her young child. She wasn't ranting and raving and telling others not to show affection on the train. She wasn't shouting that they were sinning. The mom was simply covering her daughters eyes. Yes, she made a couple of comments to her other daughter but we don't know if they were said so that only the poster overheard or loud enough that others also overheard. I'm sorry, but I don't think the mother was being intolerant, I think she was living her belief system by protecting her daughter from something she views as wrong. I would have done the same. I also would have done the same if I was surrounded by heterosexual teenagers acting the same way.

Melissa

[Mari]

Personally, I speak out against discrimination, bigotry, racism at any and every opportunity. Teaching a child to hate another person because they're different is disgusting. As many here have stated, they believe that homosexuality is a sin, just like greed, vanity, gluttony, stealing, gossip, lying, adultery...the list goes on and on and on. Frankly, it makes no more sense to me to be hateful to someone whose gay than it would to be teaching the child to hide their face and glare at those that are trading gossip on the subway. And doing the same any time a politician came on tv.

 

 

 

Well, I usually DO glare at politicians, LOL. I also think that in many cases they ARE outsmarted by monkeys, fish, and yes, even birds. Does that make me horrible?:D

 

Here's the thing that concerns me. Sin IS sin, period. Why should we tolerate it at all? I don't want my children exposed to ANY of the sins you mentioned. I want my children to hide their faces to all sin. In fact, I shield them as much and for as long as I can. Yet I do teach them to hate the sin but love the sinner, just as Jesus did.

 

The thing that bothers me most about this topic is that in today's world, we are forced to tolerate sin lest we be called "stupid," "mean," or (gasp) "politically incorrect." We are also forced to expose our youngest children to sin because others lack the shame to hide it.

[PineFarmMom]

:iagree: I teach my children what the Bible says about everything, homosexuality included. I explain how some people don't believe what the Bible says and not everyone is going to follow the Bible. We can pray for them but we shouldn't hate them or treat them with disrespect. I would avoid any gay pride parade however just because of the reputation of x-rated activities going on. It's the same way I would avoid certain beaches in Mexico and other places during Spring Break. :001_smile: The possibility of a little too much going on than I'd want my kids to see! If I happened to be on a subway with many gay couples, I can't imagine I'd make my kids cover their faces.

 

:iagree: I just share with the dc the Biblical view of it. There are lots of sins out there, and when a person is unable to be free of that sin on their own, then that sin is a stronghold. I've had strongholds, and Christ is the one who set me free. I know what bondage is because I've experienced it! I know what freedom is too, and I wish it for everyone...that is love! It will hold true for anything that goes against God's Word and holds us unable to get out of it. I wouldn't have handled that the way that mom did on that train for anything, though, other than feeling some need to protect my kids just in case there was too much for them to see there.

 

I'm also not much agreeing with the whole line of thinking I'm seeing here comparing this all to racism. They are two very different things. I've always seen racism and homosexuality compared, and they are apples and oranges.

[Pammy]

Glad to see tolerance is alive and well.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Danestress]

that this little girl thinks that who you have s@x with is about how *smart* you are. Millions of hetero woman (and men, actually) are out here ready to set that one straight:)

[PineFarmMom]

 

The thing that bothers me most about this topic is that in today's world, we are forced to tolerate sin lest we be called "stupid," "mean," or (gasp) "politically incorrect." We are also forced to expose our youngest children to sin because others lack the shame to hide it.

 

 

Precisely!!! I wish I could give you rep for that!! :)

[specialmama]

Well, I usually DO glare at politicians, LOL. I also think that in many cases they ARE outsmarted by monkeys, fish, and yes, even birds. Does that make me horrible?:D

 

ROFL!!!!!!

[HeatherLynn]

:iagree: Not racist, but bigots. Considering the hate crimes against gay people, I absolutely believe these were the same types of reactions from the civil rights movements. The only difference is that black people couldn't hide in regular society and gay people can. But just like the peaceful protests that Martin Luther King Jr. encouraged, gay rights people are doing the same thing. And the haters are the ones acting violent and ignorant. As it's always been in the world, as it is now, and as it will always be. Maybe my children will be in the group that will change the world.

 

:iagree:

 

 

See, I find this a little contradictory...you say you would want to shelter your kids from seeing real! life! homosexuals! Then you say you don't teach hate. Maybe feeling the need to shelter your kids from people does not equate with hate, but it seems awfully close. You might want to reconsider how you approach topics like this.

 

As homeschoolers we take opportunities in public to educate our kids. If we have the opp. to talk to someone of a different belief system or culture, we do it to learn as much about them as possible, even if we don't share the same beliefs. However, if they are *gasp* GAY many people pass judgement on them as being unworthy of interaction. To me that is bigotry at it's finest.

 

Well I will say it. I would not want to be on that train if I had my children with me. I do not want to have to explain to my young children why two men are (your words) "sitting with arms linked, or interacting in a manner that you could tell they were a couple"

I will also say that this must have seen the most benign homosexual parade since Sam met Adam. Walking past one in DC and watching the odd one on the news it seems that the signs and behavior are generally more extreme than what you saw. But then again, as I said, maybe you came across the most benign one in recent history.

This is a bitter issue and I am shocked that you lambast people for their attitudes but do not see that your views are arguably just as intransigent. You say that "I see this issue as more of a parenting one than a lifestyle issue," many would disagree with you and that does not make them stupid or anything else.

You say "It made me sad to think that at such a young age she would have such a disparaging opinion of people she had never even met" I know many parents who would say that it is sad that you would take your children to, or allow them to watch, a homosexual rights parade. You can not argue for your view of tolerance on one side and then be equally intolerant of the views of others.

 

See, we run into things all the time we don't want our children to know about. However, at some point, they must know. Why not take that opp. to educate them about the lifestyles of others. You can educate a child on your belief system without using insults and passing judgement.

 

Your "belief" that people are born gay brings many people's testimonies down, because they were gay, then they met Jesus. He changed them. It happens all. the. time.

 

 

You also don't address all the GAY people who are saved and have a personal relationship with Jesus. I have many gay friends that know Christ but had to stop attending church because of the judgement passed on them by other "Christians". Matthew 7:3-5 says "3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Are you so snow white that you have the right to call others on what you perceive as sin? What happens if when you get to Heaven you see gay people there. What if you find out that *shock* biologically their brains were a different gender than their body. God knew that, but you being of human mind and spirit could not. How many souls are being lost every day to the harsh judgement and persecution by "Christians"? How exactly do YOU know? Do you abstain from sex for 80 days after the birth of a female daughter? Do you sleep in a different bed than your spouse (or a different house) because you are having your period? Are you perfect by the Bible's standards?

 

I used to be one of those "Christians" who believed that homosexuality was a sin and felt some sort of "call" to get on my high horse and try to change them. Then through prayer I was convicted that I was wrong. My behavior and behavior of the like minded was driving many homosexuals away from the love of Christ. We are supposed to be like him. We are to love and accept people just the way they are. It is God's job to work on them as individuals and change what he prompts them to change. However, even if it is a sin and they weren't born that way, that is between them and God, not for us to convict them of.