US Education Sec says kids should be in school 11 mos/6 days a week

[iamom]

Just saw this in the paper. U.S. Education Secretary, Arne Duncan, thinks that kids should be in school at least 11 months, 6 days a week. He also thinks the school day is too short. He then went on to say, "You're competing for jobs with kids from India and China. I think schools should be open six, seven days a week; 11, 12 months a year."

 

Yikes!

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Anyone think the teacher's union will go for this plan?

[laughing lioness]

Maybe he's referring to the 2 million minutes project? http://www.2mminutes.com/ Our kids do need to be globallly competitive but making the school program last longer doesn't insure education. Maybe the Sec of Ed needs to compare content as well as hours spent in school.

[jonesloonybin]

Well, since our "school" is here at home, my children are "in school" 12 months of the year. :tongue_smilie:

 

That is just crazy. Pretty soon they will start telling us to just send off our kids to the state boarding school. School 24 hours a day without interference from us pesky parents.

[Laura Corin]

Just saw this in the paper. U.S. Education Secretary, Arne Duncan, thinks that kids should be in school at least 11 months, 6 days a week. He also thinks the school day is too short. He then went on to say, "You're competing for jobs with kids from India and China. I think schools should be open six, seven days a week; 11, 12 months a year."

 

Yikes!

 

The US school year is on the short side. The UK one, for example, is 39 weeks in state (public) schools: 40 weeks, but with five teacher training days scattered through the year. If you add up those extra three weeks over the course of twelve years of school, you get to a whole extra year of school.

 

Now, whether an extra year of school or an extra year of leisure is more important for a child is another question. I have also seen the Chinese education system and it's nothing that I would wish to emulate.

 

Laura

[Nestof3]

Yes, because the gov't has goals for its citizens. It's all about competition. All I can say is, "good luck." I don't want anything to do with their system. Quite frankly, I don't want them deciding goals for my children.

[Danestress]

I think it's really just a holdover from our roots as an agrarian society that needed kid's labor on farms.

 

I don't want to see a 6 day school week. But I would vote to shorten summer break by several weeks, given a chance.

[Nestof3]

I think it's really just a holdover from our roots as an agrarian society that needed kid's labor on farms.

 

I don't want to see a 6 day school week. But I would vote to shorten summer break by several weeks, given a chance.

 

For me, it's not so much about a extra few weeks taken off summer break, it's about the fact that they talk about drop-out rates AND lengthening school day hours and the school year as if it will help matters AND more college-degreed citizens in the same breath. Oh, and more money.

[dhudson]

Yet, another reason to home school. I think they had better look at quality of education not quantity.

[Jeannie in NJ]

the schools in my town are in session from Sept 4th until June 17th but they have 25 holidays, teacher in sservice days, etc plus 10 half days off. My dd was "not fair" they get 25 whole days plus 10 half days". I told her that she usually finishs her homeschool year about a month early so it all evens out.

[Happy]

I think it's really just a holdover from our roots as an agrarian society that needed kid's labor on farms.

 

I don't want to see a 6 day school week. But I would vote to shorten summer break by several weeks, given a chance.

 

That's interesting. I've recently thought that our kiddoes spend about two years too many in high school. Not so much content wise, of course. I think a lot of kiddoes could use a year or two of work or independent study about the time they hit sixteen. Then go back to school...college, maybe...to finish up a degree plan.

 

Yeah, I know, I can't get everything studied in high school in that time frame. The plan still has kinks. ;)

 

The last couple of years of high school seem more about 'socialization' than study and too often, the first couple of years of college are the same.

 

What our country really needs is creative, inventive, independent thinking students who know more about how to learn and less about how to twitter, text, and stay alive on an Xbox 360. That was the aim in our homeschool and we have fallen short of the mark, but perhaps closer to the target than some.

 

Interesting thread.

[Highereducation]

I in no way mean this to be a political statement or commentary, but I had to laugh when I read the part about our kids competing with India and China for jobs.

 

Outsourcing is not an educational issue! It's a cost cutting issue! Every kid in this country could be going to school 24/7/365 and getting a degree from Harvard, and those jobs would still be going overseas! Who are they kidding?

 

Sorry about the rant, but reading that statement made my eyes cross.

[EKS]

I think that before we (as a society) go to lengthen the school year, we should first make a serious attempt to get rid of much of the wasted time in school. They would probably gain at least a couple years over the twelve years of school.

[PinkInTheBlue]

I've never agreed or understood the logic of big, long summers off. However, lengthening the amount of school will never help as much as increasing the quality of school would. An example of quantity not being the issue as much as quality. As I see my local public schools, more of it definitely would NOT serve much or any good. A complete overhaul is the only thing that could help at this point.

[Stacie]

I think it's really just a holdover from our roots as an agrarian society that needed kid's labor on farms.

 

I don't want to see a 6 day school week. But I would vote to shorten summer break by several weeks, given a chance.

 

 

I agree about not wanting a six day school week, and in theory I agree about a longer school year. However, this may penalize some high school students who need the longer summer break to work full time for college money. It also adds operational expenses to schools and consequently another burden to taxpayers.

 

Generally speaking, I'd much rather see the schools first and foremost making the most of the time they do have with students before asking for more.

[Happy]

I agree about not wanting a six day school week, and in theory I agree about a longer school year. However, this may penalize some high school students who need the longer summer break to work full time for college money. It also adds operational expenses to schools and consequently another burden to taxpayers.

 

Generally speaking, I'd much rather see the schools first and foremost making the most of the time they do have with students before asking for more.

 

And hurts tourism.

 

A few years ago, there was a major push to have Texas public schools open the third week of August at the earliest. At that time, there were school districts opening classes the first week of August. Hey, it's sweltering hot here then. Much more fun to take a two week break in late September and early October instead.

 

But....

 

the PTB in Texas looked at numbers from Texans not vacationing in August...first, teachers and children simply getting ready for school then, from the high school kids who had to quit jobs at Six Flags to re-enter class...and they saw dollar signs floating away. That's why schools in Texas cannot open prior to the third week in August. In the old days, school would be done by Memorial Day in May. Not so much now...I think my son's friends go into June.

 

The school schedule does impact the community.

 

One of the last years my son was in ps, he was in a year round program. Nine weeks on, three weeks off. We loved it! I could see that happening with excellent results.

[Kathy in MD]

I think it's really just a holdover from our roots as an agrarian society that needed kid's labor on farms.

 

I don't want to see a 6 day school week. But I would vote to shorten summer break by several weeks, given a chance.

 

I've heard that if you took the same number of weeks that summer vacation had, but broke them into smaller "vacations" scattered throughout the year, the teachers wouldn't need to use the first 3-4 weeks of school for review. That would add at least an additional year of instructional time without increasing the hours actually in school.

 

I must admit, I've always enjoyed the long summer break. By the time fall rolled around, I was bored and looking forward to school again.

[FO4UR]

Well, if I had any power to change the ps system - I would take a weed-whacker to the curricula and the school day!

 

Grades 1-6 would be 1/2 day. Only the 3R's should be taught. Leave science and history and "social studies" to mom and dad to do at home. Little "after school" programs (privately run) would pop up all over the country and parents could have a lot more say in the content of their child's education.....and more parents would feel confident in HSing and Afterschooling.....plus, it would save tax-dollars.

 

 

 

The problem with my plan is that too many parents really want childcare, not education - and too many politicians are ready to pounce on the easy prey. (not on this board....if you are even here, it's an indication you care deeply about education;))

[Crissy]

What the secretary is actually saying is that we (the system) are not educating our children very well.

Unfortunately he's looking in the wrong direction for a solution.

[myfunnybunch]

All other considerations aside, how in heaven's name would we pay for that?

 

We've got local school districts already cutting days from their schedule in an attempt to keep from going too far over budget.

 

Cat

[Happy]

 

The problem with my plan is that too many parents really want childcare, not education - and too many politicians are ready to pounce on the easy prey. QUOTE]

 

 

That's the truth!

[Erica in PA]

Just saw this in the paper. U.S. Education Secretary, Arne Duncan, thinks that kids should be in school at least 11 months, 6 days a week. He also thinks the school day is too short. He then went on to say, "You're competing for jobs with kids from India and China. I think schools should be open six, seven days a week; 11, 12 months a year."

 

Yikes!

 

Funny. I think most kids need more time with their families, rather than more time in school. I can only imagine how much more of a toll on families that would take, having them separated for 6 days per week, 11 months per year. I just pray that homeschooling will remain a legal option, because the more time passes, the less I feel I could ever entrust my children to the state.

[elegantlion]

Maybe they should spend the traditional school year simply teaching and then the summer session could be used for teaching "the test". :glare:

[Erica in PA]

I think that before we (as a society) go to lengthen the school year, we should first make a serious attempt to get rid of much of the wasted time in school. They would probably gain at least a couple years over the twelve years of school.

 

:iagree: That is so true!!! I agree totally with that. It used to infuriate me, hearing about all the wasted time my sister spent in school. She graduated in 2007. There were several days during finals weeks when she would take one test only, for example, and then spend the rest of the day in study hall-- that's like 6 hours!! Or the time when, in a misguided attempt to boost PSSA math scores, all the teachers in the school had to teach math every day, for two weeks. French teachers, english, gym teachers-- everybody had to teach math, and to completely mixed levels of students; those who were in Calculus were "learning" the same things as the remedial basic math students. That was a total waste. Not to mention all the wasted time on regular days.

 

 

If all that wasted time were eliminated, I really think a longer school year would be completely unnecessary.

[joannqn]

What the secretary is actually saying is that we (the system) are not educating our children very well.

Unfortunately he's looking in the wrong direction for a solution.

:iagree:

 

Would it be nice if he just said that?

 

We already know what would help but those in power won't allow it.

[Soph the vet]

Well, if I had any power to change the ps system - I would take a weed-whacker to the curricula and the school day!

 

Grades 1-6 would be 1/2 day. Only the 3R's should be taught. Leave science and history and "social studies" to mom and dad to do at home. Little "after school" programs (privately run) would pop up all over the country and parents could have a lot more say in the content of their child's education.....and more parents would feel confident in HSing and Afterschooling.....plus, it would save tax-dollars.

 

 

 

The problem with my plan is that too many parents really want childcare, not education - and too many politicians are ready to pounce on the easy prey. (not on this board....if you are even here, it's an indication you care deeply about education;))

:iagree::iagree::iagree:I wish we still had the rep system, you would get lots of brownie points for this post!

[Jen in PA]

Public schools around here spend the first marking period reviewing what was lost over the summer, the second one covering some new material, the third one preparing for state exams, and the fourth quarter rushing to get through the material that the kids will forget over the next summer. I agree that the school year should be longer to prevent the loss of skills that occurs during long breaks.... but that will hardly fix the entire problem. If I were taking a medication that wasn't working, I'd ask for a different medication, not more of what had already failed to produce results.

[Murphy101]

Well, if I had any power to change the ps system - I would take a weed-whacker to the curricula and the school day!

 

Grades 1-6 would be 1/2 day. Only the 3R's should be taught. Leave science and history and "social studies" to mom and dad to do at home. Little "after school" programs (privately run) would pop up all over the country and parents could have a lot more say in the content of their child's education.....and more parents would feel confident in HSing and Afterschooling.....plus, it would save tax-dollars.

 

 

 

The problem with my plan is that too many parents really want childcare, not education - and too many politicians are ready to pounce on the easy prey. (not on this board....if you are even here, it's an indication you care deeply about education;))

 

:iagree:

 

also, I like the agri-schedule even if I don't use it whiel we homeschool.

 

it gives kids a lengthy time out of the desk and actually doing things. Things they are actually interested in I hope. I know that's how it was for me. The vast majority of what I know today was not learned in school, but onthe weekends, breaks, and over the summer. It's when I got a job, when I went on personal trips, when I interacted the most with all kids of different people, when I had the most freedom to make personal decisions and follow personal interests. These things are at least as important as formal schooling, if not more important.

[HRAAB]

What we need is a homeschooling mom or dad as Education Secretary. Any volunteers?

 

Janet

[Jenny in Atl]

I in no way mean this to be a political statement or commentary, but I had to laugh when I read the part about our kids competing with India and China for jobs.

 

Outsourcing is not an educational issue! It's a cost cutting issue! Every kid in this country could be going to school 24/7/365 and getting a degree from Harvard, and those jobs would still be going overseas! Who are they kidding?

 

Sorry about the rant, but reading that statement made my eyes cross.

 

Have you checked into the nationalities of many in US graduate schools. It might give you pause on how well you think US students are competing with students from other countries (educationally). I agree outsourcing is a money issue, but the US is in serious trouble educationally. So far I have not see anything that will help, including this article.

[Greta]

In my parents' school days, kids (in elementary grades) had lots of free play time breaking up the day (they called it "recess" -- anyone remember that?), and no homework. And kids performed well on standardized tests.

 

Nowadays, kids get very little, if ANY, recess, and they are sent home every night with hours worth of homework, essentially extending the school day until bedtime.

 

And performance on standardized tests, graduation rates, and literacy rates are dropping like stones.

 

And the solution to this is more school? :banghead:

[at the beach]

What the secretary is actually saying is that we (the system) are not educating our children very well.

Unfortunately he's looking in the wrong direction for a solution.

 

Well said. You've really summed up the problem perfectly. Thanks for sharing!

 

Anita

[laughing lioness]

:iagree:Oh yea. None of my grandparents went beyond 6th grade and yet they are some of the smartest people I know. They undestood econ, biz, physics, writing, etc. and they all had excellent handwriting-lol!

not to mention all of the pracitical skills that they knew-plumbing, wiring, sewing, knitting, animal husbandry, etc.etc.

Bring on the weed-wacker!

[at the beach]

In my parents' school days, kids (in elementary grades) had lots of free play time breaking up the day (they called it "recess" -- anyone remember that?), and no homework. And kids performed well on standardized tests.

 

Nowadays, kids get very little, if ANY, recess, and they are sent home every night with hours worth of homework, essentially extending the school day until bedtime.

 

And performance on standardized tests, graduation rates, and literacy rates are dropping like stones.

 

And the solution to this is more school? :banghead:

 

:iagree: I also think that to have kids in school that much takes them completely away from their home and family. The school is taking over every aspect of a child's life. Very sad.

 

Anita

[Margaret in GA]

Have you checked into the nationalities of many in US graduate schools. It might give you pause on how well you think US students are competing with students from other countries (educationally). I agree outsourcing is a money issue, but the US is in serious trouble educationally. So far I have not see anything that will help, including this article.

 

 

Totally agree. When Microsoft is recruiting people from Asia to work here b/c they can't find qualified people in the US we have a problem.

 

The solution, in my opinion is not in extending the calendar. I agree with the Secretary that bold change is needed, but he's on the wrong path here. What about summer camp? My son (12) went for the first time last year and learned SO MUCH about life. He really grew up. What about summer jobs? Talk about life experience.

 

My opinion is that we need to go back to smaller, walkable schools with smaller class sizes and less administration. Kind of like homeschool ;)

 

Margaret

[Audrey]

All other considerations aside, how in heaven's name would we pay for that?

 

We've got local school districts already cutting days from their schedule in an attempt to keep from going too far over budget.

 

Cat

 

Well, combine this 6 day 11 month school year with that mandatory pre-k at age 2 and 3 and you've got the daycare covered, so just re-direct the money accordingly and there you go. Great plan, eh? :001_rolleyes:

[mamaof2andtwins]

I think his statement has a huge political motive.

 

That is all I am going to say about that.

 

Our local large city's school superindentent proposed lengthening the school day and the school year in response to what to do with the stimulus money. The teacher's union president said that the money would be better spent on reducing class sizes. It was the first time I think I ever agreed with the union president.

 

Jennie

[Riverfront Headmistress]

Can I have a link to the article?

[coffeefreak]

I think it's really just a holdover from our roots as an agrarian society that needed kid's labor on farms.

 

I don't want to see a 6 day school week. But I would vote to shorten summer break by several weeks, given a chance.

 

:iagree:

[coffeefreak]

I think that before we (as a society) go to lengthen the school year, we should first make a serious attempt to get rid of much of the wasted time in school. They would probably gain at least a couple years over the twelve years of school.

 

:iagree:

 

Unfortunately, teachers are now required to be babysitters which accounts for much of the "wasted time." We have a long list of teachers in my family (one is my sister, one is my sister in law). They want to teach, they have high goals and aspirations. Unfortunately, they admit to spending much of their day either dealing with administration stuff, or counseling an entire class because a discussion cropped up about XYZ. Not to mention the discipline issues my sister has to deal with are NOTHING like when we were in school. It's very sad, but parents are to blame for the time wasted in school, not the teachers. I can see us going to a year round system eventually. It's a win win for a lot of parents. The assumption will be, kids are in school, out of trouble, and I don't have to pay for daycare! It won't change anything though. In those countries that are "beating us" educationally, you SHAME your parents if you mess around in school or fail a test. The parents INSIST on excellence. That's the difference, not time spent in school.

 

PS I still think Summer Vacation is too long:D

[Kathy in MD]

In my parents' school days, kids (in elementary grades) had lots of free play time breaking up the day (they called it "recess" -- anyone remember that?), and no homework. And kids performed well on standardized tests.

 

Nowadays, kids get very little, if ANY, recess, and they are sent home every night with hours worth of homework, essentially extending the school day until bedtime.

 

And performance on standardized tests, graduation rates, and literacy rates are dropping like stones.

 

And the solution to this is more school? :banghead:

 

Good points! And it's been shown that excercise helps the brain work by increasing blood flow and other reasons. Of course, how many kids without homework would go home and just sit in front of the TV, or computer, or PS2 or.....

 

But it's not only losing excercise time. It's also pushing more and more skill work down to ages that aren't developmentally ready for it and setting many up to fail. It's panicing that students need calculus to get into college and not getting them well grounded in Algebra I first. It's trying to teach them EVERYTHING before graduation instead of teaching them how to learn their their entire life. It's trying to shovel everyone into college rather than preparing the non-academic ones for a vocation or vocational school.

[Highereducation]

Have you checked into the nationalities of many in US graduate schools. It might give you pause on how well you think US students are competing with students from other countries (educationally). I agree outsourcing is a money issue, but the US is in serious trouble educationally. So far I have not see anything that will help, including this article.

 

While I agree with you that many US students aren't competing well with the students of other countries, here are some further thoughts on the subject:

 

1. A large portion of Americans don't feel that anything below "management" positions are acceptable for their children once they enter the workforce, and that blue collar positions are to be looked down upon. A pompous neighbor of mine, speaking about the immigration debate, declared, "They're here to do the kinds of jobs I don't want my kids doing." He was talking about landscaping, waiting tables, etc. Children who grow up thinking that they are somehow entitled to a lucrative position just because they live in America are not going to fare well in the workplace, nor are they going to be competitive.

 

2. Those grad school students you mention - how many of them are paying for their education directly? Many American kids can't afford a college education unless they are willing to take on a mortgage without even getting the house.

 

This isn't a simple matter of public school or even homeschool education. There are many, many more factors at work here.

[ELaurie]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein, (attributed) or in this case, doing more of the same, for a longer period of time, and expecting different results. When I think of the children, I feel very :sad: about this.

[Kathy in MD]

Totally agree. When Microsoft is recruiting people from Asia to work here b/c they can't find qualified people in the US we have a problem.

 

But there are unemployed people here that maintain that they are qualified, but aren't considered for the jobs. I believe that part of the problem may be salary eexpectations. I've also heard at the other end of the income/skilled labor pool where unionized Americans working slaughter houses were "let go" and lower paid, non-union immigrants who didn't complain about work related injuries were hired in large numbers. The production line sped up to the point that there was a large increase in both immediate injuries (knife cuts, etc) and repetitive motion injuries. (The interviewee on this topic was a union rep)

 

The solution, in my opinion is not in extending the calendar. I agree with the Secretary that bold change is needed, but he's on the wrong path here. What about summer camp? My son (12) went for the first time last year and learned SO MUCH about life. He really grew up. What about summer jobs? Talk about life experience.

 

Our school district is trying to resolve part of that by requiring volunteer work prior to graduation. The students are allowed to select their area which helps.

 

My opinion is that we need to go back to smaller, walkable schools with smaller class sizes and less administration. Kind of like homeschool ;)

 

Yes! where the staff knows all the students by name! The money not used on busing would help pay for it.

 

Margaret

 

Good post

[sassenach]

Maybe they should spend the traditional school year simply teaching and then the summer session could be used for teaching "the test". :glare:

 

Seriously.

[Harriet Vane]

My opinion is that we need to go back to smaller, walkable schools with smaller class sizes and less administration. Kind of like homeschool ;)

 

Margaret

 

Yep. I have long said that the solution is to knock class size down to ten kids and fire a minimum of 50% of the administrative level. Education needs to get back down to the simple equation of teacher + student, in a ratio that is small enough that the teacher really knows the needs and abilities of the student.

[Loupelou]

Obviously the the thinking behind such a statement is flawed. The US system needs to be overhauled, not lengthened! The average US student is falling behind not because the student is failing but because the system they are forced to rely on is failing them. The state of our educational system is a reflection of greater societal issues, and quantity of time is never going to address that!:tongue_smilie:

[Aggie]

The real issue is the parents.

 

Parents have dropped the ball. The schools can do no thing without parental support and involvement.

 

In second grade, when Johnny can't read, he's promoted to 3rd. When he doesn't know his mult tables or how to subtract, he goes to 4th.

 

There are no consequences from home when he doesn't do his school work. There are no consequences from school when he doesn't learn.

 

In families like this, where parents don't care, more family time will mean more time on the streets or in front of the tv as the kids grow up.

 

More time at school just means the parents have even less responsibility for raising their children.

 

I taught for several years in schools where parents just didn't care. Some students succeed regardless. But many don't. No amount of money, no better curriculum, no longer/shorter days or years will solve the problems.

 

The solution is at home. Until the parents have a vested interest in their dc's education, the system will stay broken, imo.

[Heather in Neverland]

What we need is a homeschooling mom or dad as Education Secretary. Any volunteers?

 

Janet

 

I'll do it! This is a dream of mine. Of course, I probably wouldn't be popular with the politicians because my "symbol" would be the weedwhacker! :D I have worked in all levels of education for the last 15 years and one of the problems is that there is BIG money in school "reform". LOTS of people have jobs in school reform, write books about school reform, run workshops on school reform, etc. If I told you how much money our district spent on "professional development" for reforming our schools you would faint (but it is in the 7 digit range). If the schools were ever really "reformed" all those people would be out of work.

 

I don't think the schools can be reformed. They need to be dismantled and remodeled. We need a nation-wide "do-over". :D

 

I also did my master's thesis on the effects of the extended school day/ school year and all of the research shows that quality "time on task" gives far more gains than merely increasing "seat time" (and that was in 1996!).

 

Having said that, we do school year-round with our kids and always have but it doesn't look the same all year round. I also don't feel that my highest educational goals for my kids are so they can compete with other nations.

 

:rant:

[HRAAB]

I'll do it! This is a dream of mine. Of course, I probably wouldn't be popular with the politicians because my "symbol" would be the weedwhacker! :D I have worked in all levels of education for the last 15 years and one of the problems is that there is BIG money in school "reform". LOTS of people have jobs in school reform, write books about school reform, run workshops on school reform, etc. If I told you how much money our district spent on "professional development" for reforming our schools you would faint (but it is in the 7 digit range). If the schools were ever really "reformed" all those people would be out of work.

 

I don't think the schools can be reformed. They need to be dismantled and remodeled. We need a nation-wide "do-over". :D

 

I also did my master's thesis on the effects of the extended school day/ school year and all of the research shows that quality "time on task" gives far more gains than merely increasing "seat time" (and that was in 1996!).

 

Having said that, we do school year-round with our kids and always have but it doesn't look the same all year round. I also don't feel that my highest educational goals for my kids are so they can compete with other nations.

 

:rant:

 

I'll work on your campaign. :D

 

Janet