Curious- What does Secular and Inclusive mean to you?

[Osmosis Mom]

I am referring to the terms used in connection to homeschoolers and homeschooled groups. My dilemma is sort of bifold; I am religious, but not looking for religious support, yet I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others!

 

Does secular necessarily mean non-deity believing to you? I have experienced many times that inclusive groups are so by name only, but the reality is that people couldn't care less about expanding their acquaintances and cliques!!!

 

Just wondering.

[Parrothead]

To me secular doesn't mean non believing. I believe but I prefer secular homeschool materials. I would prefer a secular homeschool group if I had a choice.

 

And I think that the so-called inclusive groups are using the term wrong. The are more exclusive - excluding people who don't believe the same things the do. I think the term inclusive means to include everyone regardless of faith.

 

*I refer to faith because that is generally what these groups are referring to when they want to exclude/include people.

[Tap]

To me secular means 'no faith' based materials/discussions.

 

Inclusive mean 'any faith' based materials/discussions.

[Tutor]

To me secular means 'no faith' based materials/discussions.

 

Inclusive mean 'any faith' based materials/discussions.

 

I would expand inclusive to mean 'any faith or non-faith-based' materials/ discussions. I agree with the secular definition here.

[Hillary in KS]

What does it mean to me? Or what have I experienced in my real life?

 

To me:

"Inclusive" means all faiths, homeschool approaches, lifestyles, etc. are welcome. Everyone is welcome so long as they are polite.

"Secular" means the absence of any religion. Everyone's welcome, but we don't want to know about your religion. We try to keep things as neutral as possible.

 

What I've seen in real life from groups I've attended:

 

"Inclusive" -I've seen two forms.

(One)- a primarily Christian group who means well and wants others to feel welcome, but others don't usually come because it's a primarily Christian group.

 

(Two)- A group made up of people of many backgrounds that starts nicely, but eventually devolves into a "anyone but Christians are welcome" sort of a group.

 

"Secular"- I attended a secular group a few times. It was created in reaction to a local inclusive group. They were more of an anti-religious group, not merely Christianity. If you were a serious believer in anything, you probably wouldn't be comfortable there.

 

Everyone's experiences are different, I realize. My experience won't be like others on this board. We've moved a lot, and have lived in 6 different cities since we began homeschooling 9 years ago. Only one of them was a big city, where there were countless groups. In most of the places I lived there's only been 1, or maybe 2 groups.

 

I'm sure there are secular groups out there that are not made up of angry, anti-religious people. But I haven't found one. Conversely, I'm sure there are groups that claim to be inclusive but only include those who believe exactly like them, but I haven't found one of those either.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Hillary in KS

[Maria/ME]

I agree with tap...when I think "secular" I think no religious ideas involved in my materials or discussion.

 

Inclusive means anything goes, even if it's "no faith".

[jenn-]

I am involved in an inclusive group. The only people we "exclude" are those that refuse to be accepting of others for who they are, and they normally exclude themselves when they find out that we really mean inclusive. We try to avoid discussions of politics and religion, because they can result in fights within the group and hurt feelings.

 

As for the term "secular materials," I expect it to be void of any mention of faith either way.

[Caitilin]

My experience has been that "inclusive" generally means "we believe various things, and you can believe various other things, as long as we all agree to be polite." "Secular" means unschooling, consensual living, rabid attachment parenting, and, generally, "anything's OK except Christianity." Obviously, this is only here, and I don't feel like these designations are applied as I would like, but that's what they are. We have more in common with the people in an inclusive, but doctrinally oriented (different from our own) group, than with the "secular" group, b/c the lifestyles of that group actively conflict with our own. Best of luck to you in your search!

[Sharon H in IL]

Secular just means not referencing any religious foundation. It doesn't specifically exclude religious references, they're just not foundational.

 

For example, my local homeschool online group is secular. People regularly ask for prayer, refer to their religious studies, invite others to their pagan or evangelical liturgical dance performances. It's a matter of politeness in phrasing rather than never referring to religon, or making atheism foundational.

 

And I'm so not surprising that supposedly inclusive groups will still tend to exlude some. Plato did say that man is a political animal. But note that the ancient Greeks restricted the freedoms of their polis to a very small circle that excluded everyone else in the world. ;-) It's a perennial problem, thus one to be managed rather than solved.

 

I hope you find some friends to connect with, for you and for the children.

[Closeacademy]

To me

 

Secular means non-religious.

 

Inclusive means anyone can join.

 

Our inclusive group is very religious and prays at mom's meetings but has members who are not Christians. Our exclusive group is even more so.

 

Some friends and I have a secular group that is open to people who do not attack or threaten others in the group. We try to have very balanced activities and be supportive of each other.

 

:001_smile:

[Osmosis Mom]

I'm sure there are secular groups out there that are not made up of angry, anti-religious people. But I haven't found one. Conversely, I'm sure there are groups that claim to be inclusive but only include those who believe exactly like them, but I haven't found one of those either.

 

You nailed it!

[Mekanamom]

To me, secular means that the focus isn't on religion. I am perfectly comfortable with discussion about religion, as long as it isn't promoted as something I must believe in... and as long as it isn't a constant barrage.

 

For instance, I use what I consider to be a secular curriculum, yet there is discussion about various religions and bible stories... it isn't presented as "This is the ONE truth that you MUST believe"... so to me, that means secular. FWIW, I can't imagine studying history without studying various religions and how those belief systems influenced the course of human events.

 

Inclusive: Again, to me this means that all different faiths and walks of life are welcome, but please don't try to convert me or place the focus of the group on any one religion OR lack of faith. FWIW, I can't imagine expecting my friends to be totally silent about their religious beliefs, since religion can be such a part of who a person is. Just don't tell me I have to go to church with ya. ;)

[LaxMom]

What I've seen in real life from groups I've attended:

 

"Inclusive" -I've seen two forms.

(One)- a primarily Christian group who means well and wants others to feel welcome, but others don't usually come because it's a primarily Christian group.

 

(Two)- A group made up of people of many backgrounds that starts nicely, but eventually devolves into a "anyone but Christians are welcome" sort of a group.

 

"Secular"- I attended a secular group a few times. It was created in reaction to a local inclusive group. They were more of an anti-religious group, not merely Christianity. If you were a serious believer in anything, you probably wouldn't be comfortable there.

 

This has generally been my experience as a secular homeschooler... particularly varieties of group One who claim to be "inclusive" but require a statement of faith.

 

"Inclusive" means all faiths, homeschool approaches, lifestyles, etc. are welcome. Everyone is welcome so long as they are polite.

"Secular" means the absence of any religion. Everyone's welcome, but we don't want to know about your religion. We try to keep things as neutral as possible.

 

 

This is the reality of our inclusive group. And while we DO try to keep things neutral, we regularly engage in respectful discussions of our differing beliefs.

 

And it has been a deliberate effort to keep the group from developing a "group Two" sort of feel - there have been instances when certain ideas were presented that made our (then) Christian minority feel uncomfortable, and so we chose not to further entertain those ideas, much to the dismay of others who feel that if they are ok with anything at all, everyone else should be, too. (If that makes any sense?)

 

Basically, we try to encourage fairly neutral materials / classes. If there are questions from one of our religious members about the content of an upcoming class, they are asked freely and answered in the spirit of open dialogue. We don't prohibit clearly religious classes being offered, but those historically have had low or no sign up.

 

I hope you find a group that is a good fit for you. It can be really difficult. :grouphug:

[Deidre in GA]

i was involved with an inclusive homeschool group. if the topic of religion came up we were tolerant and polite. mostly it didn't come up. the founder (a christian) moved away and turned the group over to a woman who was a member and understood the nature of the group. a few months later she began harassing a member family because of an innocous pagan t-shirt the mom once wore. long story short, she decided the group's definition of inclusive meant inclusive of all christian religions. so the pagan families, the jewish families, the spiritually undefined families, and the more open minded christian families left and formed another group.

[Carrie12345]

I am referring to the terms used in connection to homeschoolers and homeschooled groups. My dilemma is sort of bifold; I am religious, but not looking for religious support, yet I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others!

 

Does secular necessarily mean non-deity believing to you? I have experienced many times that inclusive groups are so by name only, but the reality is that people couldn't care less about expanding their acquaintances and cliques!!!

 

Just wondering.

 

"Secular" does not mean non-deity believing. It means there's no religious (or anti-religious) component involved.

 

Somehow, I lucked out with my local group. Secular has always meant just what it's supposed to mean in the 2 years we've been working with them. It wasn't until this fall that I discovered one of my hs friends is Pagan, another is Catholic, and another is... okay, I don't remember what her label is, but it's a conservative Christian branch.

 

The "inclusive" groups I've looked into are open to all faiths (or non-faiths), but there always seems to be a religious component in there, somewhere. For my family, that gets difficult to work around after a while.

[Lovedtodeath]

To me secular doesn't mean non believing. I believe but I prefer secular homeschool materials. I would prefer a secular homeschool group if I had a choice.

 

And I think that the so-called inclusive groups are using the term wrong. The are more exclusive - excluding people who don't believe the same things the do. I think the term inclusive means to include everyone regardless of faith.

 

*I refer to faith because that is generally what these groups are referring to when they want to exclude/include people.

 

Sounds good to me!

[Jumping In Puddles]

I'm sure there are secular groups out there that are not made up of angry, anti-religious people. But I haven't found one. Conversely, I'm sure there are groups that claim to be inclusive but only include those who believe exactly like them, but I haven't found one of those either.

 

I must be lucky with the secular group I belong to! Although to be fair I've only just begun homeschooling in September and I've only belonged to 2 groups (plus here).

 

One is the mom group at my church. I joined when ds was 9 months old and the group meets at our church. This is an inclusive group. To me, that means that it is religion based but anyone is welcome. Most people who join are Catholic and members of the church but there are people who just want to be part of the mom's group but are either not Christian or another denomination. There is no problem at all! It is a wonderful group of women. :)

 

Secular, to me means that the group is not based on religion and anyone can join.

 

I joined a local secular homeschool group and honestly, it reminds me of coming here to the boards! Mostly we get together, talk about curriculum, give support but we sometimes take field trips, share resources, and let our kids play together. I think it would just be a homeschool group not a "secular homeschool group" just like if you wanted to get a bunch of friends together for a day at the park you wouldn't contact everyone and say you wanted to set up a secular play date!

 

I prefer to not use religious materials when I teach my kids. I wouldn't use anti-religious material either. My kids are going to be enrolled in CCD when they start 1st grade and they often want to talk about God at home now - which is fine, I just don't want to talk about God in the middle of math, science or phonics, for example. So I choose secular materials.

[KidsHappen]

To me secular means 'no faith' based materials/discussions.

 

Inclusive mean 'any faith' based materials/discussions.

 

This would be my definition as well. However, in reality I have found that secular sometimes means anti-Christian while inclusive frequently means any denomination of Christianity and some really inclusive groups to even accept Jewish people.

[mommaduck]

To me secular means 'no faith' based materials/discussions.

 

Inclusive mean 'any faith' based materials/discussions.

 

This is what it means to me. I don't want to be boxed by a certain person's expectations (because, sorry, but we all let eachother down when expectations are involved...no one is perfect), so I prefer an Inclusive group.

[Laurel]

Secular doesn't mean anti-religion, it simply denotes the absence of religion. From our secular group website:

 

What is Secular?

 

Webster defines secular as "not overtly or specifically religious." We embrace families from all religious and spiritual backgrounds who want a homeschool group that is non-religious in nature.

 

 

We definitely have member families that are very religious (myself included, though I am not Christian), but religion is not the purpose of the group, and it is explicitly stated that we all respect others' religious differences.

[Plucky]

What does it mean to me? Or what have I experienced in my real life?

 

To me:

"Inclusive" means all faiths, homeschool approaches, lifestyles, etc. are welcome. Everyone is welcome so long as they are polite.

"Secular" means the absence of any religion. Everyone's welcome, but we don't want to know about your religion. We try to keep things as neutral as possible.

 

What I've seen in real life from groups I've attended:

 

"Inclusive" -I've seen two forms.

(One)- a primarily Christian group who means well and wants others to feel welcome, but others don't usually come because it's a primarily Christian group.

 

(Two)- A group made up of people of many backgrounds that starts nicely, but eventually devolves into a "anyone but Christians are welcome" sort of a group.

 

"Secular"- I attended a secular group a few times. It was created in reaction to a local inclusive group. They were more of an anti-religious group, not merely Christianity. If you were a serious believer in anything, you probably wouldn't be comfortable there.

 

Everyone's experiences are different, I realize. My experience won't be like others on this board. We've moved a lot, and have lived in 6 different cities since we began homeschooling 9 years ago. Only one of them was a big city, where there were countless groups. In most of the places I lived there's only been 1, or maybe 2 groups.

 

I'm sure there are secular groups out there that are not made up of angry, anti-religious people. But I haven't found one. Conversely, I'm sure there are groups that claim to be inclusive but only include those who believe exactly like them, but I haven't found one of those either.

 

 

Yes, this is exactly what I've experienced, too.

[Spy Car]

In "practical terms" if I saw a homeschooling group was "secular and inclusive" I'd assume some of the participants would not believe in a deity, but that many (and perhaps the majority) would.

 

It seems to me a great number of religious people prefer educational materials where the author's theological (or other "world-views) don't "flavor" the work. Particularly in subjects were religion doesn't necessarily have an obvious place.

 

It can be pretty difficult (and frustrating) to find materials that don't freely introduce religious instruction into homeschooling materials, so I'd expect you would find plenty of religious people in a "secular and inclusive" group looking for materials that either did not conflict with their theological positions, or which offered the parent the respect that values and religious education is best left to themselves.

 

I'd also expect that you Muslim faith would interest many members of the group, and in time you would be peppered with questions about Islamic culture. If you went in trying to "convert people" (which I'm certain you wouldn't do) then I'd expect the reception could get "chilly" fast, but otherwise I suspect people would value the inclusion of a Muslim in a group.

 

Personally, I'd say ahlan wa sahlan !

 

Bill

Edited February 18, 2009 by Spy Car
typos and sloppy usage

[Osmosis Mom]

Bill, I am LOL at you!!

 

I am not having a specific group-frustration right ow. I was just speaking in general. Since I am wearing my religion on my sleeve, so to speak....

 

Inclusive over the years has to me *mostly* meant that I was tolerated, people enjoyed my company, but it was obvious I was marginalized as people got past that "welcome all"-feeling. To be fair, then I saw the same thing happen to a very strict Jewish homeschooler (who stopped attending unlike me) and a woman who was a surrogate mother to twins (and considered out of norm). What I am trying to say is that inclusive to me has mostly meant that sure, ya'll are welcome to attend, but we all aren't going to care one bit whether you attend or not...

 

My expressively secualr experience did end up being a bashing sort of group (towards their former religions etc. etc.).

 

I have felt frustrated over the years; how can marginalized people fit in (or possibly, want to fit in) when they are always treated ostracizingly? I actually know many, many Muslims and Muslim homeschoolers who just don't dare attend a lot of activities because they don't want that cold treatment (and I am not talking bad treatment!!), just plain cold!!

 

But I guess, in general, people different on the outside is always going to be judged and stereotyped. I am not just talking about myself here, hope that's obvious!

[LaxMom]

Well, if you want to move south a bit, you would be welcomed by our groups - both our co-op and umbrella group - wholeheartedly. You know, unless you turned out to be annoying or high-maintenance or something. :D

 

Really, both groups are populated by families of all religious views (and none), ethnic backgrounds, educational styles. We have a great time together and learn a lot about one another's views from being in an open setting.

[fivetails]

Replying without reading any of the other responses yet, so I can answer without any influence (then I'll go read and see what kind of different meanings everyone attaches)....to me, with respect to a homeschool group:

 

"secular" would mean that there was no religious focus - ie, there's no group prayer before a meal, no devotional at a mom's meeting, no co-op classes that use Exploring Creation or materials like that...doesn't mean nobody *is* Christian or Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist or Pagan or anything, just means that the "group" doesn't participate together in activities that are religious in nature...

 

"inclusive" would mean (again this is what *I* would infer if I saw the word listed in the group description) that the group may have a specific "religious"...bent? Ie, it may be a mainly Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Buddhist/Pagan/etc group that is willing to have non-C/M/J/B/P/etc members join, as long as those members are aware that there may very well be prayer, devotions, C/M/J/B/etc material, and so on.....the non C/M/J/B/P/etc members don't have to participate, of course, just be aware that it may happen....

 

Those would be what I would *expect* ...of course, given that I've only been a member of two groups and neither really titled themselves as such (they both title themselves as "Christian Homeschool Group" - though I know there were a few members in our old one who were not Christians, and I think there is in this new one as well....so I guess maybe these are "inclusive" but not really identifying as such? I dunno! LOL ) .....it's just what the words would have me think....I could be off. I could join a group and find out it meant totally different than what I thought.... :)

[Spy Car]

Bill, I am LOL at you!!

 

It seems like everyone eventually does :D

 

I am not having a specific group-frustration right ow. I was just speaking in general. Since I am wearing my religion on my sleeve, so to speak....

 

Inclusive over the years has to me *mostly* meant that I was tolerated, people enjoyed my company, but it was obvious I was marginalized as people got past that "welcome all"-feeling. To be fair, then I saw the same thing happen to a very strict Jewish homeschooler (who stopped attending unlike me) and a woman who was a surrogate mother to twins (and considered out of norm). What I am trying to say is that inclusive to me has mostly meant that sure, ya'll are welcome to attend, but we all aren't going to care one bit whether you attend or not...

 

My expressively secualr experience did end up being a bashing sort of group (towards their former religions etc. etc.).

 

I have felt frustrated over the years; how can marginalized people fit in (or possibly, want to fit in) when they are always treated ostracizingly? I actually know many, many Muslims and Muslim homeschoolers who just don't dare attend a lot of activities because they don't want that cold treatment (and I am not talking bad treatment!!), just plain cold!!

 

But I guess, in general, people different on the outside is always going to be judged and stereotyped. I am not just talking about myself here, hope that's obvious!

 

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences Nadia. To feel marginalized, ostracized, or worse to have hostility directed ones way for actions of others, must be very painful. I do understand what you are saying.

 

The good news (for your children) is things change. I've hit the half-century mark, and the changes I've witnessed in my lifetime in terms of enlightenment on "racial" issues is almost unbelievable to me. Unfortunately, we still have a long way to go when it comes to welcoming our Muslim brothers and sisters with a loving embrace. But that day will come, and you will (unfortunately) have to endure some hurts, so your children's experience is a better one.

 

Get out there and show the world that a veiled Muslim woman can be a kind and compassionate person. Make friends, absorb some rejections, but slowly change the world.

 

I'm about as "secular" a person as there is, but know I feel blessed to have many Muslim friends, including a woman who wears a hibjab. I've fasted with them at Ramadan and enjoyed iftar in their homes. My life is richer for the experience. And I do have some insight into the pain.

 

I wish you peace,

 

Bill

[Ellie]

I am referring to the terms used in connection to homeschoolers and homeschooled groups. My dilemma is sort of bifold; I am religious, but not looking for religious support, yet I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others!

 

Does secular necessarily mean non-deity believing to you? I have experienced many times that inclusive groups are so by name only, but the reality is that people couldn't care less about expanding their acquaintances and cliques!!!

 

Just wondering.

I was in on the discussion 20 years ago when some hsers in California, most of whom were not Christians, were trying to figure out how to define their statewide group. The term they came up with was "inclusive."

 

The problem is that "inclusive" doesn't mean what they want it to mean.

 

There are Christian groups which are "inclusive," because anyone who is willing to put up with their being Christian is welcome to join, whether she is religious or not.

 

"Secular" is a perfectly good word. For a homeschool group it would mean that people of all sorts are welcome, whether they have strongly held religious beliefs or not. "Inclusive" just does not say that to new hsers who are not up on all the hs jargon, regardless of how much the organizers want it to.

 

Christian hsers want to know whether a group is Chrisitan or not. "Inclusive" doesn't say that; "secular" does.

 

I won't use the word "inclusive" to describe a hs group because it just isn't accurate.

[Stacy in NJ]

I would agree that secular means without religious reference. Inclusive means everyone, whether religious or not.

 

I've had a hard time finding a "community" of homeschoolers here in NJ. The groups tend to run either very religiously committed or very liberal/unschooly. Being conservative and pretty traditional in our school approach, but prefering secular materials and generally a secular environment, many of the area groups just don't fit. I actually have found the religious groups more welcoming. Go figure.

[Veritaserum]

To me secular means neutral of any religion. It doesn't mean anti religion. It means that all beliefs are welcome (atheist, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, pagan, etc.). We are secular (homeschooling for academic, rather than religious reasons) but we are also Christian.

 

I'm something of a misfit in that I'm a libertarian Christian. I find that I fit in better with Democrats/progressives than with Republicans/conservatives because I'm somewhere in between those two groups. There are major points that I disagree with in both parties, but I have found that liberals tend to be a bit more open-minded and welcoming of those who may disagree with them.

[Lovedtodeath]

Is it cold treatment though? I ask because some years ago I attended a story time group at the library. There were two Muslim women in the group. They never talked to anyone. I noticed some people did try to strike up conversations with them. They never really bit. I don't know why.

 

I'm not saying this one experience indicates anything. It could have just been these two women. But I don't know. Could it be that their fear of being ostracized or of getting the cold shoulder led them to be kind of cold themselves?

 

I know I was this way big time when I was first dealing with CFS. All of the CFS support was basically "no one understands you" and I really went around with a chip on my shoulder. It was a self-fulfilling prophesy. I am proud of myself for being able to see it now. :) (patting myself on the back):lol:

[Kay in Cal]

I think secular means "not promoting any religion" and inclusive means "all are welcome".

 

We have belonged to an inclusive secular group of around 400 families or so--there are many Jewish families, Christian families, a few Muslim families and a bunch more that I don't know. I've never felt unwelcome as a Christian (or a pastor--I get plenty of polite questions and that's great), and I think it's wonderful when people want to dress up for Purim, or whatever. There are no organized religious activities, but that doesnt' mean that people don't practice thier own faiths.

 

I will have to admit there are a lot more unschoolers there than classical schoolers, but I don't require everyone to agree with our methodology just to be supportive of each other.

[Plaid Dad]

There's a difference between what I think these terms mean and what the groups I've known that use the terms mean by them.

 

I understand "secular" to mean the opposite of "faith-based" and "inclusive" to mean "we welcome you as long as you're willing to play nice with people who may disagree with you on religion and politics."

 

In practice, though, "inclusive" in this neck of the woods means "religious, social, or political conservatives need not apply," and "secular" means "atheists only."

[hornblower]

"secular" would mean that there was no religious focus - ie, there's no group prayer before a meal, no devotional at a mom's meeting, no co-op classes that use Exploring Creation or materials like that...doesn't mean nobody *is* Christian or Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist or Pagan or anything, just means that the "group" doesn't participate together in activities that are religious in nature...

 

"inclusive" would mean (again this is what *I* would infer if I saw the word listed in the group description) that the group may have a specific "religious"...bent? Ie, it may be a mainly Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Buddhist/Pagan/etc group that is willing to have non-C/M/J/B/P/etc members join, as long as those members are aware that there may very well be prayer, devotions, C/M/J/B/etc material, and so on.....the non C/M/J/B/P/etc members don't have to participate, of course, just be aware that it may happen....

 

 

:iagree:

 

You said it very well. This is how I see it.

[Osmosis Mom]

Is it cold treatment though? I ask because some years ago I attended a story time group at the library. There were two Muslim women in the group. They never talked to anyone. I noticed some people did try to strike up conversations with them. They never really bit. I don't know why.

 

I'm not saying this one experience indicates anything. It could have just been these two women. But I don't know. Could it be that their fear of being ostracized or of getting the cold shoulder led them to be kind of cold themselves?

 

Wendy, I know what you are saying. I realise most Muslim women out there hold them to themselves. I do not. I am a pretty open, smiling person who loves to strike up a plain old conversation. I am not *lonely*, just friendly and always trying to break down the stereotype that Bill mentioned. That's why I keep putting myself outthere (I have a few actual hurts and met some hate, but generally I just meet the "whatever-type"!!).

 

Nadia

[Osmosis Mom]

I think secular means "not promoting any religion" and inclusive means "all are welcome".

 

We have belonged to an inclusive secular group of around 400 families or so--there are many Jewish families, Christian families, a few Muslim families and a bunch more that I don't know. I've never felt unwelcome as a Christian (or a pastor--I get plenty of polite questions and that's great), and I think it's wonderful when people want to dress up for Purim, or whatever. There are no organized religious activities, but that doesnt' mean that people don't practice thier own faiths.

 

I will have to admit there are a lot more unschoolers there than classical schoolers, but I don't require everyone to agree with our methodology just to be supportive of each other.

 

 

I love diversity!! Geez, I am in NH (but most of the time in MA) and I rarely meet anyone, but white homeschoolers! And yes, Drew, I guess your description fits up here north of Boston as well!

[Peek a Boo]

There's a difference between what I think these terms mean and what the groups I've known that use the terms mean by them.

 

I understand "secular" to mean the opposite of "faith-based" and "inclusive" to mean "we welcome you as long as you're willing to play nice with people who may disagree with you on religion and politics."

 

In practice, though, "inclusive" in this neck of the woods means "religious, social, or political conservatives need not apply," and "secular" means "atheists only."

 

 

This has been our experience too.

 

I set up our local group w/ the terms secular AND inclusive. I think I'll add Webster's definitions too.

 

as laurel shared:

 

Webster defines secular as "not overtly or specifically religious." We embrace families from all religious and spiritual backgrounds who want a homeschool group that is non-religious in nature.

 

 

since so many expect "secular" to be No Religion At All, I use it in tandem w/ inclusive: broad in orientation or scope.

 

Not only is our homeschool group secular in that its specific goal [to help homeschoolers in the area] has nothing to do w/ religion but may very well include helping find someone find specifically religious materials, and that we are inclusive: we don't define homeschooling narrowly AND welcome any/ no faiths to join.

 

I wrote up a file for "Thoughts on Religion" [since that's usually the biggie] that is sent out when someone requests to join, and again when they are approved.

 

---------------------------

 

Thoughts about this group, homeschooling, and religion.

 

First off, I will offer the disclaimer that I am a Christian.

I have watched numerous issues come up in homeschooling groups

that revolve around religion of one sort or another.

Christianity isn't the only religion where differences in faith can cause

serious divisiveness among members. Most of what I will be addressing

comes from watching discussions and scenarios where these issues

have been relentlessly pursued in search of a common ground, often to no avail.

 

I want to make it painfully clear that *this* list is about

helping home schoolers first and foremost.

Secular home schoolers *and* religious home schoolers.

This list is specifically targeted for a variety of homeschoolers

-just look at the key words on the home page

[and feel free to let me know of other key words that we can include]

If you are a Main-stream Christian you have a wonderful choice

of many groups in the area that will help you homeschool in your faith.

If you are *not* a main-stream Christian your choices for joining up

w/ a group of any kind [much less one distinctly for your own lifestyle]

tend to be severely limited. Add in the limiting

factor of the cost to join various groups, and those are the key

reasons for the creation of ROHSofTX: for people who prefer to leave

religion out of their academics or subscribe to different brands of

Christianity or different faiths altogether. Or those of us who just like talking homeschool :-)

 

I enjoy spending time w/ people of varying beliefs:

I have learned a lot about people in general and my faith in specific

and have had the opportunity to clarify some of my faith w/ others.

I have been severely disappointed in the way some [not all!] groups

--Christian *and* secular-- have reached out to home schoolers.

I hope this list can help homeschoolers by connecting

the ones who have a desire for helping others w/ people who most need that help.

 

In that spirit share any information you can offer,

but PLEASE do not assume that everyone on this list is Christian or

even religious at all. You don't have to be Christian or even 'spiritual'

to want to homeschool your children. Not all Christians are alike.

Not all atheists detest learning from people of varying faiths.

There are a great number of preconceived notions out there,

so I hope everyone can keep an open mind about what each other needs

in their efforts to homeschool.

 

If an event or group has a decidedly religious nature,

please state so as matter-of-factly as you can.

While we *do* want everyone to be able to share concerns and struggles,

please be as tolerant as you can of how others

will respond. I do know that a mixed group can succeed [i was in such a group in NY], but ONLY if each person tries to communicate clearly w/ everyone else. PLEASE extend as much grace and tolerance as possible

if there are religious/ non-religious issues that crop up:

just because we don't agree w/ everything someone posts

doesn't mean we need to be taking offense where none was intended.

If you have a question, feel free to ask! If an event posted isn't your cuppa tea, then just don't avail yourself of it.

 

I am adding a disclaimer that NOTHING linked to or posted on ROHSofTX is an endorsement or condemnation of anything. Email the person who posted for clarification on content or intentions. We are not mind readers. If you are Christian, follow Matthew 18 and approach the one that offended you --get it out in the air and deal with it. Do realize that the two of you might NOT come to an agreement on something --be prepared to think about how you want to view your role in this group.

 

Do feel free to email me about ANY questions you have: webnotions@yahoo.com

 

I hope this list is a learning experience for each of us as well as helping

our children get a great education w/ local resources.

 

-----------------------

[Spy Car]

I like that Peek.

 

Bill

[kalanamak]

I would expand inclusive to mean 'any faith or non-faith-based' materials/ discussions. I agree with the secular definition here.

 

I agree with your inclusive, but would change the quotes for secular from "no faith" based

to

no "faith-based".

[KarenNC]

Sounds like we are fortunate as well.

 

Here, our inclusive group means you are welcome whatever religion (or none) as long as you are willing to actively contribute time and energy to making the group work, willing to play nicely with others ;) and realize that others are going to be different religiously, politically, in homeschooling style and likely parenting style to some extent, and are likely to talk about it openly. We have Christians (both very liberal and very conservative), Jews, non-religious, Neopagan, Unitarian Universalists, other religious (not sure how to classify a couple of them ;)), etc.---no Muslims of whom I am aware, but we are a smallish group. It wouldn't surprise me if some joined, and they would be welcome. I believe there have been Buddhists in the past, but folks come and go. No proselytizing, but we frequently have discussions on religious topics (politics is actually touchier). At the moment, I believe we have Roman Catholic, Assembly of God, Episcopal, Baptist, Methodist, Quaker and Presbyterian Christian denominations represented as well as nondenominational Christian (and there are likely others that I don't know at the moment).

 

We do not have prayers at meetings or any other time, but religion-specific oriented field trips and activities are okay as long as they are publicized as such so that folks can make an informed choice about participating. We have holiday parties, including Christmas and Halloween, an Easter Egg hunt, have had Hanukkah activities, etc. Not everyone comes to everything, but that is expected. We may or may not have an activity on a day that something religious is observed by some group (ie we have had activities on Fridays, on Saturdays and on Sundays at various times), though we try to avoid major holidays celebrated by group members if we know about them. This may mean that not everyone can or will come to everything.

 

Considering I have been a very active member for 4 years, 2 of those on the board, a Girl Scout leader for the group and have never made any secret of the fact that not only am I non-Christian, I am actively Neopagan, I can safely say that it isn't an "including only various Christian denominations" group.:) It also means we will likely never be a very large group, at least not in this neck of the woods. I admit when I first contacted them, I laid out that I was a politically moderate to liberal Democratic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist and asked if they were really inclusive enough to want us:).

 

I have had one situation in which another child in the group tried to proselytize my child, but the other mom and I were able to discuss it and work to help both kids treat the other respectfully (the mom actually approached me to apologize before I even found out about it). I know those sorts of issues are going to come up in my daughter's life, and I am glad that they are happening in an overall supportive atmosphere where she is known as a whole person, not just as a religious label. Conversely, it helps when she might say something negative about Christianity to say "When you say 'Christian', do you mean ____ or ________ or ________(her friends in the group) ". That usually causes her to pause and think about what she's saying.

 

I agree that unfortunately too often "secular" groups are formed in reaction to not being allowed to participate in "Christian-only" groups and frequently have a large proportion of folks who have had negative experiences with (usually) Christianity. That means it is easy for them to fall into an "anything but Christianity is welcome" attitude or at least that Christianity is at best tolerated. I'm not a part of them around here, though, so that may have changed since I first started looking 4 years ago.

 

Now, I think it is a different when it comes to curricula materials. For those, it is more of a delineation between "Jesus on every page" and "may reference religions in their historical/cultural contexts".

[dawn of ns]

Wendy, I know what you are saying. I realise most Muslim women out there hold them to themselves. I do not. I am a pretty open, smiling person who loves to strike up a plain old conversation. I am not *lonely*, just friendly and always trying to break down the stereotype that Bill mentioned. That's why I keep putting myself outthere (I have a few actual hurts and met some hate, but generally I just meet the "whatever-type"!!).

 

Nadia

 

I like that use of whatever! I think if I were to start a homeschooling group it would be neither inclusive nor secular. It would be a whatever group!:)

[Jenny in Atl]

In the secular/inclusive groups I have been involved with in the Atlanta area.. most of the members we/are religious, but their faiths were not the focus of the group. All three of the groups I've been a member of had a nice mix of all kinds of folks, from liberal to conservative, unschoolers to strick school-at-home, and the very religious to atheists.

 

What we all seemed to have in common was the wish to be around others who had a mix of views, beliefs, and ideas. Many had had issues of not being "enough" of whatever other groups they we members of were, whether those groups be faith based or style of schooling based.

[Sunshyne]

I am a Christian, but I absolutely prefer to be part of a secular or inclusive group. I find the moms and the kids to be a better fit for our family.

 

I sure hope you find a place that works for you! Since moving to middle TN, we've not yet found a group that is like the one from where we came in MS.

[Mama Lynx]

I am referring to the terms used in connection to homeschoolers and homeschooled groups. My dilemma is sort of bifold; I am religious, but not looking for religious support, yet I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others!

 

Does secular necessarily mean non-deity believing to you? I have experienced many times that inclusive groups are so by name only, but the reality is that people couldn't care less about expanding their acquaintances and cliques!!!

 

Just wondering.

 

 

As other people are saying, secular is supposed to mean not referencing any particular religious view. Religion-neutral.

 

Inclusive is meant to mean a group in which religion is not a basis for discrimination. All are welcome - Muslims, Jews, atheists, pagans *and* Christians.

 

I've been a part of some wonderful inclusive groups IRL. I have found that on the internet they tend to devolve towards anti-Christian. I have also found that the secular groups very often tend toward a particular political view. Since I am not Christian, I am more conservative than liberal, I am religious but do not seek religious support, and I am not anti-Christian - the group-finding does get difficult :)

[Reya]

Um. It depends. I've found that about 80% of the time, those that most loudly declare their inclusiveness and secularity are actually frankly anti-Christian and often are also anti-anything-but-unschooling. The intolerance is typically relative to the loudness of the declaration.

 

Just my experience, though!

[Audrey]

IME, "inclusive" is just another term a bunch of christians use to mean that the homeschooling group is for other christians as long as they're the "right kind" of other christians, but they could be from different sects of protestantism, technically.

 

I have no experience with secular groups around here. I don't think there are any, but if I were to start one, "secular" would mean no religious activities of any kind. You do that on your own time, not on the group's time. If I were to start an "inclusive" group, it would be for anyone and, religion would not be the focus of the group, although it may arise as a natural part of discussion.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Audrey

[Karen in CO]

In a town that has thousands of homeschoolers and dozens of homeschooling groups, we are the only group that is not affiliated with a church. For us, secular, inclusive means that none of the churches in town will rent us space.

 

We don't discuss religion at all. We can all identify that anyone who is part of our group found us because they didn't fit with any of the church groups in town. After a few years there I have learned that there are Catholic, conservative Christian, pagan, wiccan, Jewish, atheist, and plain-ole non-religious families in the group.

 

We are probably leaving the group, but that is due to differences in educational philosophies and not religion. Apparently Eclectic doesn't mean what I thought it did.