Is there a marriage book that’s like,

[Ginevra]

“How to Make Your Husband Fall Back in Love With you Without Losing Yourself in the Process”? I can’t search that on the ‘Zon, cause my people all use the same account and I don’t want that turning up. 
 

I would just like to make things better around here, but not by engaging in male-centric stupid crap like, “Wear a silk nightie to bed” or “Fix his favorite meal” or “stop nagging him to fix the bathroom sink for Chrissakes” 😏 I am post-menopausal and I know I have become rather wooden emotionally and I know I don’t say mushy things anymore (if indeed I ever did, but it’s much more obvious now). 
 

I just want him to think, “Wow, I really lucked out in the wife lottery.” I mean, maybe he already thinks that but if he does, he hasn’t mentioned it in a while. OTOH, neither do I so…

I have become very independent now that the kids are mostly or fully grown, which I love; it feels like the version of me I always meant to be but couldn’t while I was a hs mom. But he did make a remark recently about me not needing him for anything and - well, it’s almost true - and it seemed like he felt that as a hurt. Maybe it’s his own sense of being an older guy who is semi-retired and he feels a bit put out to pasture (except it’s the pasture he’s been trying to get put out to for five or more years.) 

Anyway. I did wonder if there’s a good book that I may be able to get in person from the B&N that speaks to this. Thanks. 

[Catwoman]

I'm kind of thinking that if you don't want to engage in any "male-centric stupid crap," what are you willing to do to make your dh feel like he "lucked out in the wife lottery?" I don't think fixing someone's favorite meal or trying to be a little seductive so he knows you still find him attractive counts as "male-centric stupid crap," so I'm not sure I quite understand your definition. 

I would think that you would want to try to do things that you know make him happy, preferably things that make you both happy at the same time. I'm not sure what those things would be for you guys, because I would assume it would be different for every couple.

[Ginevra]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I would think that you would want to try to do things that you know make him happy, preferably things that make you both happy at the same time.

I don’t know if we still have such things. Also, sexiness is really profoundly uninteresting to me at this point. Mine or his. Most of the things that make me happy are things he won’t or can’t do; ie, travel, hiking.

[katilac]

35 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

I can’t search that on the ‘Zon, cause my people all use the same account and I don’t want that turning up. 
 

I don't have a book recommendation, but I can tell you that incognito browsing will solve this problem 

[Ginevra]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

I don't have a book recommendation, but I can tell you that incognito browsing will solve this problem 

Ahhhhhh! This is an idea! 

[KungFuPanda]

Increased romantic devotion in a romance-free situation might be a hard sell. It sounds like it’s heading towards roommate territory and that could lead to less devotion, not more. What things make him happy? Can you facilitate those? Are there things you like that he can do to make you happy?  You can love the person without loving the activity and modifications can be made. Maybe he stays in the cabin with you, but you sign up for a group hike without him while he does his thing for a few hours. 

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

I don’t know if we still have such things. Also, sexiness is really profoundly uninteresting to me at this point. Mine or his. Most of the things that make me happy are things he won’t or can’t do; ie, travel, hiking.

Honestly, the fact that sexiness is profoundly uninteresting to you might be a bigger problem than you think, unless your dh also has a very low sex drive. 

It kind of sounds like you're looking for a buddy and not a husband.

[frogger]

It seems like you already know what he is feeling. I don't think amyone wants to feel completely unneeded. Rhetorical question,  do you feel he needs you? If you walked away today, where would that leave him? If he walked away where would that leave you? Would you be just as happy? These are just ways to frame "need".

Now just because you need someone doesn't mean you have to be helpless. It is good that you are independent except that to be important to someone is to be needed even if it is for companionship. I could completely live without my dog (not all that helpful honestly) but I would be losing something important if she died and would be sad so in a sense I need her. 

I want to suggest doing something hard together like flipping a house or canoeing the Yukon 🤣🤣🤣 but I don't think that is what you are looking for but honestly there is nothing like a challenge in working together to make yourself a team again. 

If you have zero interests in common are you at least interested in hearing about each others activities? Just going to have ice cream and telling each other about something important and listening because it is important to the other person is a good start.

 

Can you do something with him, he likes even though you don't and then he can do something with you that you like even if he doesn't like it. That is what we did for family nights. Rotated with each family member choosing something different. It wasn't choosing to do whatever the activity was, for us it was making a dedicated choice to do something together. We were choosing the people over an activity. 

 

 

[HomeAgain]

I think it's pretty important to think about how you make him feel wanted in your life, not needed.

[Jaybee]

I don't have a book recommendation.

All healthy relationships take some effort. It almost sounds like you don't really want to make an effort if it costs you anything. I don't mean that to be ugly, just straightforward. I think it's good for both persons in a relationship to remember that people are complex. It's easy for us to just assume we understand a person when we know certain things about their habits, or have lived with or known that person for a long time. But we all change over time. Maybe you could try to find out who he is now, and what he likes now; get to know him again by asking questions and being interested in how he answers. He may be feeling a bit lost right now, like so many on this forum do occasionally. I think all of us like to be pursued sometimes, to be made to feel special, to feel like we are worth someone's making an effort to know us and our thoughts and dreams.

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Honestly, the fact that sexiness is profoundly uninteresting to you might be a bigger problem than you think, unless your dh also has a very low sex drive. 

It kind of sounds like you're looking for a buddy and not a husband.

Yeah...I agree. Most husbands wouldn't be happy with a marriage that doesn't include sex.

[marbel]

45 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

Most of the things that make me happy are things he won’t or can’t do; ie, travel, hiking.

I don't have any book recs either. But I can see a guy starting to feel insecure as he sees his wife growing professionally while he is winding down, in particular if he has been the main source of income for most of the marriage. And if he has physical limitations that prevent him from doing the things you like best to do, well, that'll contribute too. 

So, there's nothing that the two of you can enjoy together?  Is there something that makes him happy that you can at least tolerate doing with him, even if it's not your favorite thing?  Don't you two cook together? Do you try new recipes/foods; do you like to shop together to discover new things in the grocery store/farmer's market? Do you enjoy wine/scotch/beer tasting - or at least one of you, and the other can drive and just hang out and enjoy spending the time? Do you like to go to the theater, to concerts? 

My husband and I have diverged in our interests quite a bit over the last 30 years. Add in some physical limitations (which most people are going to face at some point) and it can make it hard to find something to do together.  So each of us does some things that aren't our favorites because we know the other person enjoys them. That helps to keep the bond between us strong. 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by marbel

[Ginevra]

9 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

Yeah...I agree. Most husbands wouldn't be happy with a marriage that doesn't include sex.

I mean…it still exists. It’s a concession for me, though. I do not care about it. I can Still…get ‘er up to a rolling boil, but it isn’t necessary for my happiness in life. 

[marbel]

1 minute ago, Ginevra said:

I mean…it still exists. It’s a concession for me, though. I do not care about it. I can Still…get ‘er up to a rolling boil, but it isn’t necessary for my happiness in life. 

Same. I see it as important to him and our relationship, though, so we carry on. I mean, there's no coercion and if I shut it off, he'd put up with it, but I'm not planning on going there. 

[Ginevra]

1 minute ago, marbel said:

So, there's nothing that the two of you can enjoy together?  Is there something that makes him happy that you can at least tolerate doing with him, even if it's not your favorite thing?  Don't you two cook together?

We do. That is one of the few things we like equally well. 
 

There is some overlap in what we like but cooking is probably the only thing we really like equally and do together. He likes to fish; I like it okay but that’s only a very infrequent thing. He likes to hike, as do I, but he has old injuries and can’t hike the trails I hike. We both like canoeing and kayaking but that is also an infrequent thing; couple times a year. 

[marbel]

7 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

He likes to hike, as do I, but he has old injuries and can’t hike the trails I hike.

Yeah, my husband has developed arthritis in his foot so he can't walk/hike as long as I can (and want to). So we go on easier/shorter hikes together, and I go alone or with one of my kids when I want something bigger. 

TBH, it does rather seem like you are not really willing to compromise (see bolded by me above). Surely the two of you can find some places you can hike together, even if it's not your preference. You have other people, friends, to do hard hiking with, IIRC?

Edited August 6, 2023 by marbel

[Jaybee]

17 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

I mean…it still exists. It’s a concession for me, though. I do not care about it. I can Still…get ‘er up to a rolling boil, but it isn’t necessary for my happiness in life. 

Yeah, well, post-menopausal here. I love my dh though, and care about him. 

[Ginevra]

24 minutes ago, frogger said:

Can you do something with him, he likes even though you don't and then he can do something with you that you like even if he doesn't like it. That is what we did for family nights.

We do do this…Friday nights in particular. We make pizzas and watch things that are DVR’d. He watches a lot of Harry Potter with me even though he does not really get the complexities of the story. Or we watch cooking shows or house hunters. Yesterday he turned on All Creatures Great and Small because he figured I would like it even though it’s not something he’s too interested in. He has the hardest time following a multi-layered story like that. 

[Melissa Louise]

I guess I'd wonder to what extent he is remaking himself as you are, and the both of you are becoming interesting to each other as a result.

He's the only one who knows (maybe) what he values and finds compelling in a wife; it can't be dependency and need, because that's a very poor basis for a relationship. So what is it he values? Have you asked him? 

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

I thinking being cheerful and kind goes a long way in situations like this.  Being interested in different things can give you stuff to talk about.  Letting the other person hear you say something nice or complimentary about them to another person is also good.  

My husband can’t hike like I do, but we have worked some routes out where he drops me off at the start and drives to the end and fishes, and then I hike down to him and we hang out for a bit.  Might that work for you?  It’s a bit contrived, but for us it has worked out pretty well.

You might do an online cooking class together?  I know a woman who teaches those, and they are quite good.  She distributes the shopping list and recipes ahead of time and then in a 2 hour session makes everything.  Cosmicmuffinschoolofcookery.com.  I’ve taken a couple of her classes that way, and I find that printing out the recipes and then annotating them as she makes the dishes is best—she veers from or adds to the written material a fair bit, and so that way I get her latest version well documented.  But I buy all the ingredients and make the dishes the next night.  The nice thing about her school is you sign up for just one class at a time, so you’re not making a big ongoing commitment.  Warning:  She talks about using cannabis in some of her stuff.  I don’t take those classes or try those recipes personally, but I always kind of screen for it since I don’t want to.

I’ve read a bunch of marriage books over the years, and I don’t really find them all that helpful.  Usually they have a framework that they think is essential, like ‘women need love, men need respect’ or the Gottman list of no nos, or the communication is everything theory, or some specificity of love languages.  And, none of those frameworks really works for me.  In fact, some of them get quite annoying.

One that IS helpful for us, anyway, is the idea that you need to say 9 positive things if you say one negative one.  We don’t always do this, but consciously looking for the positive stuff to say, even if it feels a bit contrived, is usually a good thing for us.  YMMV.

[Ginevra]

17 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I guess I'd wonder to what extent he is remaking himself as you are, and the both of you are becoming interesting to each other as a result.

He's the only one who knows (maybe) what he values and finds compelling in a wife; it can't be dependency and need, because that's a very poor basis for a relationship. So what is it he values? Have you asked him? 

 

 

No, I haven’t. We don’t really talk in that manner. 

[Danae]

26 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

We do do this…Friday nights in particular. We make pizzas and watch things that are DVR’d. He watches a lot of Harry Potter with me even though he does not really get the complexities of the story. Or we watch cooking shows or house hunters. Yesterday he turned on All Creatures Great and Small because he figured I would like it even though it’s not something he’s too interested in. He has the hardest time following a multi-layered story like that. 

Do you tell him you appreciate it when he does thoughtful things like these?  

[Ginevra]

1 hour ago, frogger said:

I want to suggest doing something hard together like flipping a house or canoeing the Yukon 🤣🤣🤣 but I don't think that is what you are looking for but honestly there is nothing like a challenge in working together to make yourself a team again.

Honestly, I have floated the idea of building our next house (our third) but he does not seem eager to exert himself like this anymore. On the one hand, it is an opportunity to collaborate and feel closer. On the other, he could flounder, which will really  bother me because I know what he’s capable of and it would seem…lazy to me. I guess I am afraid that, presented with a challenge, he might not rise to it and then I will just resent that I put another thing on my plate. 

[Ginevra]

5 minutes ago, Danae said:

Do you tell him you appreciate it when he does thoughtful things like these?  

I didn’t, but I stayed in the family room instead of going up to bed, which is for sure what he was hoping for. He even said something like, “Well how about that…I never knew all I had to do to keep you down here with me for another hour is put on some British show.” 
 

There’s not a lot of verbalizing in our relationship. That’s nothing new; we don’t really do that. Maybe we should; I don’t know. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Ginevra said:

I didn’t, but I stayed in the family room instead of going up to bed, which is for sure what he was hoping for. He even said something like, “Well how about that…I never knew all I had to do to keep you down here with me for another hour is put on some British show.” 
 

There’s not a lot of verbalizing in our relationship. That’s nothing new; we don’t really do that. Maybe we should; I don’t know. 

It seems like he did verbalize in this instance, though. He let you know he wanted you to spend more time with him.

That might have been a good time to let him know that you enjoy spending time with him.

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

Honestly, I have floated the idea of building our next house (our third) but he does not seem eager to exert himself like this anymore. On the one hand, it is an opportunity to collaborate and feel closer. On the other, he could flounder, which will really  bother me because I know what he’s capable of and it would seem…lazy to me. I guess I am afraid that, presented with a challenge, he might not rise to it and then I will just resent that I put another thing on my plate. 

If he has injuries that prevent him from doing much hiking, I would think it would be asking an awful lot of him to try to get him to work on building another house.

And honestly, if you would view him as lazy if he flounders because he can't actually do it properly any more, that's awfully judgmental of you, and I think your expectations might be way too high (and he may no longer be as physically capable as he used to be -- particularly when he's still working a full time very physical job.)

I don't think building another house is a great idea if you're going to hold him to very particular standards. It seems almost certain that he will fail to meet your expectations in some ways, and that doesn't seem like a way to build up your relationship.

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

There’s not a lot of verbalizing in our relationship. That’s nothing new; we don’t really do that. Maybe we should; I don’t know. 

Yes, you should.

I think it must be pretty hard to have a relationship without words, but it must be a common phenomenon because soooo many books are in part about what people could have said but didn't. E. M Delafield's books, her diaries of a Provincial Lady were what first bought this to my attention, and I've seen it in books from all around the world since.

[maize]

Did you know you can delete things from your amazon viewing history?

#pro-tip

Sorry, I don't have any book recommendations!

[marbel]

I hope I'm off base here, but I'm getting the sense that you are not feeling like you won the husband lottery. I'm wondering if you are not looking for a way to help your husband fall back in love with you, but rather need help falling back in love with him.  Not trying to be nasty, as I hope you know, and I'll be very pleased to learn that I am wrong! 

[Ginevra]

4 minutes ago, marbel said:

I hope I'm off base here, but I'm getting the sense that you are not feeling like you won the husband lottery. I'm wondering if you are not looking for a way to help your husband fall back in love with you, but rather need help falling back in love with him.  Not trying to be nasty, as I hope you know, and I'll be very pleased to learn that I am wrong! 

You’re not wrong; not really. I did used to think that. I think, one thing that was very attractive about him when we met was that he was such a do-er. He was robustly physical. But now he isn’t. And I’m sure it’s not all within his control but it’s disappointing all the same. 
 

I don’t really feel like I *love* many people. Pretty much just my kids; everyone else is, more wooden on the whole. I don’t know exactly why that is but it happened after I went through cancer. I assume it’s a side effect of tamping down estrogen. It’s sort of…distanced. Like I think, “Well, I like having this person in my life” but at the same time, I feel rather neutral about them remaining in my life. I almost never cry anymore. I don’t feel that deep well of emotion, even over things that are very sad. I gave a eulogy at my MIL’s funeral as if I were a speechwriter for a member of Congress. I meant all the things I said, but it was pretty cerebralized. I guess I’m the defective party here. 
 

This probably sounds bonkers… 

[Rosie_0801]

Very few things sound bonkers. This doesn't.

Lots of things sound like they suck. 

[Ginevra]

25 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Yes, you should.

I think it must be pretty hard to have a relationship without words, but it must be a common phenomenon because soooo many books are in part about what people could have said but didn't. E. M Delafield's books, her diaries of a Provincial Lady were what first bought this to my attention, and I've seen it in books from all around the world since.

It just always seems so false to me, like when you read a book that says something like, “Tell your spouse they’re your hero…” Or whatever thing. That just feels really weird to me. I think I would feel like I’m playing a role. 

[teachermom2834]

Just a vote for you aren’t bonkers. 

I’m not in a totally unsimilar situation. On one hand I think I would like to make things better…but then I think…but I don’t really want to do any of those things that might make it so. Meh. Not putting words in your mouth but you sound a little like me…like you would like for things to be better but how much you want to put the effort into that? Do the things? Not sure about that. Not saying that is the case just saying that is kind of how it sounds…and I’m not judging because I recognize it. 😕

Not really posting to say anything other than that you aren’t bonkers…and if you are defective then so am I and I haven’t even had cancer. 
 

 

[Ginevra]

2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Just a vote for you aren’t bonkers. 

I’m not in a totally unsimilar situation. On one hand I think I would like to make things better…but then I think…but I don’t really want to do any of those things that might make it so. Meh. Not putting words in your mouth but you sound a little like me…like you would like for things to be better but how much you want to put the effort into that? Do the things? Not sure about that. Not saying that is the case just saying that is kind of how it sounds…and I’m not judging because I recognize it. 😕

Not really posting to say anything other than that you aren’t bonkers…and if you are defective then so am I and I haven’t even had cancer. 
 

 

I think this is pretty accurate. For so many years, there have just been All The Things to take care of; who’s taking which kids to which things, for example, and who could make what phone call/errand stop/purchase. So there was no “working on the marriage”; it continued mostly out of necessity. 
 

I do think there are some good suggestions in the thread and I can see us doing the online cooking thing Carol mentioned. But yeah, it is pretty hard for me to work up to putting forth a big active effort. Like I do want it to work and I would not mind feeling like I have all this love to give but I don’t want to focus a ton of effort on it; that’s true. 

[marbel]

Nothing sounds bonkers. And I think saying you are defective is a bit harsh on yourself. You are not defective. 

24 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

He was robustly physical. But now he isn’t. And I’m sure it’s not all within his control but it’s disappointing all the same. 

Sure, it's disappointing. Aging and losing some abilities is disappointing! So we work around it. What's the alternative?

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by marbel

[freesia]

My dh’s love languages are kind words and good food. He has an allergy so everything has to be from scratch bi do not love cooking. When I make the effort in cooking or the things I say—boy does it pay off in our relationship   Now the things he likes to hear do feel silly and forced to me—but not to him. I made a list at one point so I would remember. With cooking, he never complains about anything but he’s so happy particularly when I figure out a way or take the effort to make a treat he misses. Now he cooks a couple of times a week so this isn’t me being a cute housewife. It’s that  we each have things that fill us. Another person making the effort ( like your dh putting on All Creatures) and sacrificing a little (or even a lot) is the grease of love. It tells the other person they are worth something to you. It sounds like you staying with him in the evening may matter to him. For me, I don’t actually need to be doing something with another person—just having them in my orbit is important. Maybe stay down a little more than normal and see what happens. Would he maybe watch travel shows with you?

[Kidlit]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Yes, you should.

I think it must be pretty hard to have a relationship without words, but it must be a common phenomenon because soooo many books are in part about what people could have said but didn't. E. M Delafield's books, her diaries of a Provincial Lady were what first bought this to my attention, and I've seen it in books from all around the world since.

Off topic, sort of, but---is there a worse book for this than The Remains of the Day? 

[Rosie_0801]

46 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

It just always seems so false to me, like when you read a book that says something like, “Tell your spouse they’re your hero…” Or whatever thing. That just feels really weird to me. I think I would feel like I’m playing a role. 

I don't mean that. I mean ordinary fiction. There's so much "I could have told my spouse, but didn't." "I thought about saying X to Y, but didn't." (Seriously, read 'Diary of a Provincial Lady' and see if you don't end up yelling at the book.)

Though I expect you could find nice things to say that didn't sound contrived. "I'm glad you're still here" isn't weird. Words aren't my love language either, but I got better with practice.

[Jaybee]

That doesn't sound bonkers at all. No counselor here, but it sounds kind of like you dissociated some in order to cope with the enormity of cancer, etc., and haven't quite found your way back. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is rather common.

I am finding that as we age, dh and I are slowly finding a new normal. We haven't really talked about it a lot, I just see it happening. We are both having to learn how to live in our aging bodies, and not all of that is fun.

I do believe talking is important. Maybe neither of you like to talk much about your feelings. You can show appreciation in words, though. You can make yourself notice the thoughtful things he does, and you can work on doing and saying thoughtful things yourself. (I am not just naturally thoughtful. I have found over the years that I have to be purposeful about it. It isn't faking it--I care about others--but I have to be intentional about showing it.) We have been married a long time, so there have been slumps, of course. When I find myself in a slump, doing the above and really trying to notice the good things helps. Verbalizing helps too. I am not mushy, and am uncomfortable when someone is mushy with me, even if they are genuine. But dh did a lot of yard work today, so I said, "Thanks for all of your work today." Nothing mushy or fake, but it lets him know I noticed and am not taking him for granted. "Thanks for getting gas for me." "Thank you for washing the car." 

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, Kidlit said:

Off topic, sort of, but---is there a worse book for this than The Remains of the Day? 

If it's worst than 'Diary of a Provincial Lady' it deserves a gold plated wooden spoon award.

[Ginevra]

2 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

I am not just naturally thoughtful. I have found over the years that I have to be purposeful about it. It isn't faking it--I care about others--but I have to be intentional about showing it.)

Boy I can really relate to this. 
 

Sounds silly but I had to learn, at work, not to just jump directly to my question with other people. I have had to train myself to say, “Good morning, Joe, how was your weekend? Did you get the ant problem in your kitchen taken care of…” and learn to do that for a couple of minutes before I go to, “I had a question on this Smithson matter…” 😄 

I have often thought that of myself; that I am not naturally very thoughtful. 

[Ginevra]

I have to go to bed, guys. But thank you for helping me think through my issues. I’ll be back tommorow. 

[Jaybee]

Just now, Ginevra said:

Boy I can really relate to this. 
 

Sounds silly but I had to learn, at work, not to just jump directly to my question with other people. I have had to train myself to say, “Good morning, Joe, how was your weekend? Did you get the ant problem in your kitchen taken care of…” and learn to do that for a couple of minutes before I go to, “I had a question on this Smithson matter…” 😄 

I have often thought that of myself; that I am not naturally very thoughtful. 

Oh my, yes. I can talk too much about some things, but I have to make myself do small talk, lol. It's painful.

Following more on the "noticing" part, just simple questions: "What did you think about ___?" "Do you ever get impatient or sad that your body doesn't do what you want it to anymore?" (He might be sensitive about that one, though, unless you have something that you can mention of your own.) "What do you like about fishing?" The answers may be short, but the questions show you value him and what he thinks. Also, I have a million things going on in my head almost all the time. So I remind myself that dh might actually be interested in some of them! (Not all, for sure, though!😂)

[Scarlett]

I like His Needs/Her Needs.  It recognizes the differences between sexes and individuals.

[frogger]

3 hours ago, Ginevra said:

You’re not wrong; not really. I did used to think that. I think, one thing that was very attractive about him when we met was that he was such a do-er. He was robustly physical. But now he isn’t. And I’m sure it’s not all within his control but it’s disappointing all the same. 
 

I don’t really feel like I *love* many people. Pretty much just my kids; everyone else is, more wooden on the whole. I don’t know exactly why that is but it happened after I went through cancer. I assume it’s a side effect of tamping down estrogen. It’s sort of…distanced. Like I think, “Well, I like having this person in my life” but at the same time, I feel rather neutral about them remaining in my life. I almost never cry anymore. I don’t feel that deep well of emotion, even over things that are very sad. I gave a eulogy at my MIL’s funeral as if I were a speechwriter for a member of Congress. I meant all the things I said, but it was pretty cerebralized. I guess I’m the defective party here. 
 

This probably sounds bonkers… 

You may be surprised at how many people feel this way at some point in their life. You are not bonkers. I have went through the motions of life like a robot at times. Sometimes when you survive something difficult or traumatic you are just emotionally dead (exhausted) don't care anymore afterwards. You aren't defective. You are a human. You are allowed to be a person and feel what you feel even if it doesn't feel like you are feeling anything. For me I had to just had to relearn slowly or heal or whatever you call it and I am still changing. 

I think it is ok to smart small, be easy on yourself. You have to figure out this new stage of life. You and your husband are not the same people you married but that doesn't mean you both don't have positive qualities that you can appreciate. You may just have to get to know this new person you are married to to grow to love him for who he is.

I remembering joking when we were invited to a marriage conference that he was lucky he had a wife that didn't make him go to marriage conferences.

We joked about giving our best advice so we didn't have to go and mine was "You have to give a damn" . I was implying caring about the other person not just the marriage. I think you are caring which is why you are pursuing this even if you don't feel like putting in a ton of effort. 

My DH though was much more insightful.

"You don't study marriage, you study your partner." 

 

Almost all advice he would hear about "what women want" never applied to me. He learned fairly early on I wasn't a "typical woman" whatever that is and when his co-workers would say things like "your wife is going to be mad you didn't xyz" he knew I wouldn't. 

 

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, Ginevra said:

It just always seems so false to me, like when you read a book that says something like, “Tell your spouse they’re your hero…” Or whatever thing. That just feels really weird to me. I think I would feel like I’m playing a role. 

That's because it is false.

Nobody I know speaks like that, to their spouse or anyone else.

In relationships where I really care about someone (say, a very close friendship), I notice things the person communicates about their likes and dislikes. I try to give some of the likes and avoid or remove the dislikes as a way of giving to that person. I notice that doing so often communicates to the person that I value them. I'm motivated to take action because of the feelings of care.

So emotion + observation + action.

So, what do you notice your husband likes? Can you reinforce him more with what he likes?

What does he dislike?

Can you remove some of that from his experience sometimes?

I can't say this would make you a compelling wife, but it would make you a pretty nice partner to have.

I hope he is appreciating all you do, and the fact you have successfully remade yourself after raising the kids and cancer.

 

 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

But also, there is a reason a lot of women get to fifty and give no @#$%'s! And it's not because they are defective...

[Laura Corin]

18 hours ago, Ginevra said:

Boy I can really relate to this. 
 

Sounds silly but I had to learn, at work, not to just jump directly to my question with other people. I have had to train myself to say, “Good morning, Joe, how was your weekend? Did you get the ant problem in your kitchen taken care of…” and learn to do that for a couple of minutes before I go to, “I had a question on this Smithson matter…” 😄 

I have often thought that of myself; that I am not naturally very thoughtful. 

This is me, exactly. 

I'm also working and have a retired spouse who is less fit than I. 

Some things I do-

- I initiate tEa sometimes.  I don't force myself to to do anything I would hate, but just think in advance: I'm not busy on Saturday morning,  that would be a good opportunity 

- I  seek out opportunities for us to do things that are mostly what he would like - he cares more about going to films and restaurants than I do

- And try to be enthusiastic about plans that he makes that I find only borderline interesting 

- As a pp said - I thank him for things he does

- I make a big effort to listen to him talk and support his interests - some of which bore me - especially if they involve other people, so that he doesn't solely rely on me for interaction 

- At supper every evening,  we discuss what we would like to do afterwards. There are some shows that we both like, but we also watch things separately whilst the other does something else.  We also often sit together doing things in parallel  - one might be reading, the other playing on their phone 

- If I take a long hike, we might plan for him to pick me up and then we go for supper. Or he walks a short loop so the first half hour is together. Sometimes I skip a long hike to take a shorter one with him. It's hard to find a mid-ground between fulfillment and inclusion, but I try.

- I kiss him as I walk by - again, something I remind myself to do, but it's worth it.

It all sounds rather calculating, but it's the work that needs doing in my marriage. And to also give me the independent time I need.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Laura Corin

[Hannah]

9 hours ago, Ginevra said:

I didn’t, but I stayed in the family room instead of going up to bed, which is for sure what he was hoping for. He even said something like, “Well how about that…I never knew all I had to do to keep you down here with me for another hour is put on some British show.” 

3 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

We also often sit together doing things in parallel  - one might be reading, the other playing on their phone 

We also "parallel play". He might be watching a movie and I will sit in the same room, often facing away from the television, and work on a craft or play on the computer.

[scholastica]

One thing you said stood out to me. You said you don’t do a lot of verbalizing in your relationship. It’s really hard to know a person and have emotional intimacy with them without that. If you are communicating only on the surface level of exchanging information, you’re not really getting to true emotional intimacy. If you want to have deeper conversations, there’s a tool my husband and I learned when we were giving marriage prep sessions at our church. It’s called a DTR (Daily Temperature Reading) but has nothing to do with biology. It takes about 15-20 minutes to go through once it’s mastered, a little longer at first. It’s put out by the PAIRS Foundation. 
 Here is a link that explains it in detail (the website definitely needs an update, but the information is all there:

DTR by PAIRs.

It takes a little time to learn, and it presumes goodwill in the relationship. It has five prompts and that link goes into them in detail. Each prompt takes  a couple of minutes as each person takes a turn. It isn’t a time to get into long discussions, but definitely one of you can say, hey let’s talk more about that later if a longer discussion is needed about one of the prompts. 

I would bring it up to my spouse as something I wanted to do because I didn’t feel as close to him or I want to be a better wife or that now that the kids are gone and his business is winding down, you want to get to know him again. If you can do it 30 days in a row, you’ll likely find that communication in general comes more easily and that you are communicating on a deeper level. 
 

An interesting book on communication that I read is called Conversational Intelligence. It’s actually geared towards business people, but the explanation of the levels of communication and how to achieve them is easily transferred to relationships. Conversational Intelligence.  Couples are happier together when they have emotional intimacy. Sometimes when couples become more emotionally intimate, physical intimacy increases, too.
On that note, and I don’t know if previous cancer precludes this, but a low dose of compounded testosterone cream can increase drive in women. Check with your doctors. 
Also, a lot of men get depressed at retirement or as their careers are winding down. Don’t ignore that this might be happening with him. You might suggest that he get some counseling and even be willing to go with him if he is resistant. If you do, consider a marriage friendly therapist. Even if it’s not marriage counseling, they won’t be suggesting that a divorce will make him happy. List here.

For those transitioning out of career mode, the book From Strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks is really good.

It’s beautiful that you want to work on your relationship. I’m sure he will respond positively.

[Jaybee]

7 hours ago, frogger said:

You may be surprised at how many people feel this way at some point in their life. You are not bonkers. I have went through the motions of life like a robot at times. Sometimes when you survive something difficult or traumatic you are just emotionally dead (exhausted) don't care anymore afterwards. You aren't defective. You are a human. You are allowed to be a person and feel what you feel even if it doesn't feel like you are feeling anything. For me I had to just had to relearn slowly or heal or whatever you call it and I am still changing. 

I think it is ok to smart small, be easy on yourself. You have to figure out this new stage of life. You and your husband are not the same people you married but that doesn't mean you both don't have positive qualities that you can appreciate. You may just have to get to know this new person you are married to to grow to love him for who he is.

I remembering joking when we were invited to a marriage conference that he was lucky he had a wife that didn't make him go to marriage conferences.

We joked about giving our best advice so we didn't have to go and mine was "You have to give a damn" . I was implying caring about the other person not just the marriage. I think you are caring which is why you are pursuing this even if you don't feel like putting in a ton of effort. 

My DH though was much more insightful.

"You don't study marriage, you study your partner." 

 

Almost all advice he would hear about "what women want" never applied to me. He learned fairly early on I wasn't a "typical woman" whatever that is and when his co-workers would say things like "your wife is going to be mad you didn't xyz" he knew I wouldn't. 

 

Quoting just to say that I really like this! Lots of wisdom in here. And it describes dh and me pretty accurately.