School affirmation that is bothering me on a gut level

[Elizabeth86]

6 hours ago, Beth S said:

The misspelled word jumped out at me.....

Oh I can never spot misspelled words or errors. Please point it out. lol

[Shoeless]

It's weird to me. But a lot of schoolish things are weird to me. 

[fraidycat]

Gross. 🤮

[fraidycat]

49 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

Oh I can never spot misspelled words or errors. Please point it out. lol

Exsisted

[Melissa in Australia]

How does someone behave like royalty anyway?????????? 

Like a rich stuffy prig

[Carrie12345]

The concept of having all children state “I believe <prescribed belief>” is an automatic no for me in a school setting, whatever the rest of the content.   
That’s for, like, the religious service you choose, and maybe some professional, philanthropic, or social organizations you voluntarily enter to be with likeminded people.

I could pick apart other pieces, but it doesn’t even matter what they are after that (to me.)

[EKS]

7 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

Oh I can never spot misspelled words or errors. Please point it out. lol

6 hours ago, fraidycat said:

Exsisted

Another error is that the word reverence should be revere.

[EKS]

Apparently the statement was adopted as the "official affirmation statement" for the city of Roanoke.  They seem to think it will help curb gun violence.  See pages 202-204 in this document.

Edited July 30, 2023 by EKS

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

Apparently the statement was adopted as the "official affirmation statement" for the city of Roanoke.  Apparently they think it will help curb gun violence.  See pages 202-204 in this document.

They think it will curb gun violence? 🙄🙄🙄

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

How does someone behave like royalty anyway?????????? 

Like a rich stuffy prig

That bothered me too. If everyone acted like royalty, the world would be even more profoundly pompous, narcissistic, and deluded. No thanks. We have enough that kind of attitude now without raising am entire generation to think they are born better than everyone else. Ugh.

[EKS]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

They think it will curb gun violence? 🙄🙄🙄

It says this in the second paragraph of page 204 in the document I linked above:

"The City agrees to use the Royalty Affirmation as a messaging tool to the youth of the City in an effort to curb gun violence in the City."

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, EKS said:

It says this in the second paragraph of page 204 in the document I linked above:

"The City agrees to use the Royalty Affirmation as a messaging tool to the youth of the City in an effort to curb gun violence in the City."

I read that. I am still gobsmacked that anyone would think this is how to curb gun violence. 

[Elizabeth86]

7 hours ago, fraidycat said:

Exsisted

Thank you.

[EKS]

19 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I read that. I am still gobsmacked that anyone would think this is how to curb gun violence. 

I found the city council meeting where this was "discussed."  Here's the link.  It starts at 1:16:36 or so.

There was no discussion.  They didn't even read the affirmation aloud or put it up on a screen (as far as I could tell).  The person who originally submitted it for consideration spoke, and the council voted unanimously to approve it, and that was it.

[Bootsie]

What does this even mean????  I am opposed to pubic school students being encouraged to recite belief or allegiance statements on philosophical grounds.  IMO, education should be encouraging students to QUESTION illogical and nonsensical statements (and definitely not encouraging students to believe them).  

This reminds me of when DH volunteered in a school reading program and realized that at the beginning of the program the students recited their pledge--which included "I pledge to be the best reader in my class"  DH told the teacher he could not have the students make that statement, since only one student could be the "best"--neither the teacher nor the program director understood the difference between "I will strive to be the best reader I can be" and "I pledge to be the best reader in the class."  

[wisdomandtreasures]

Ah yes, this rising generation needs to be even more self-centered and egotistical. Of course! 

[Red Dove]

I agree that it’s narcissistic. 

[SKL]

It's about as true as most of the things we make kids say in school.  😛

Not a fan for several reasons, but it would not scare or bother me, unless everything else about the school was perfect ....

[EKS]

I think it's a misguided outgrowth of the self-esteem movement (which is also misguided).  Unfortunately, you can't simply bestow self-esteem on someone, and they won't develop it just because they say a thing every morning.  Self-esteem is earned.

I also think it's ironic that they are telling kids they are "royalty," when royalty have been among the worst violent offenders--albeit usually indirectly--in the history of the world.  Obviously whoever came up with this thing has never studied history.  Just another example of context collapse, I guess.

[Idalou]

If anyone cared enough to google it instead of bashing it, they'd learn the how and why answers. You can see it came from a black man as a way to lift black children up and away from the gun culture. You can also google the royalty aspects and how it pertains to many black families. I don't believe it was ever meant to be recited daily in a public school by all children, but maybe I'm wrong, as I can't find that information.

You can still disagree, but at least know what you're talking about.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Idalou

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I read that. I am still gobsmacked that anyone would think this is how to curb gun violence. 

IKR? Because royalty is known to be peaceful???  

[TechWife]

14 minutes ago, Idalou said:

If anyone cared enough to google it instead of bashing it, they'd learn the how and why answers. You can see it came from a black man as a way to lift black children up and away from the gun culture. You can also google the royalty aspects and how it pertains to many black families. I don't believe it was ever meant to be recited daily in a public school by all children, but maybe I'm wrong, as I can't find that information.

You can still disagree, but at least know what you're talking about.

Don’t assume we don’t know what we’re talking about. I’ve known about the connection to royalty for more than a decade now. This is still a bad idea.

In a Christian context, Jesus is king and all believers are children of the King. So, royalty. Are they teaching context? Which context?

Who decides how royalty is supposed to act?

How is saying a mantra supposed to get kids away from gun culture?

 

[Terabith]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:42 PM, Idalou said:

If anyone cared enough to google it instead of bashing it, they'd learn the how and why answers. You can see it came from a black man as a way to lift black children up and away from the gun culture. You can also google the royalty aspects and how it pertains to many black families. I don't believe it was ever meant to be recited daily in a public school by all children, but maybe I'm wrong, as I can't find that information.

You can still disagree, but at least know what you're talking about.

Right, I read that, and it’s why I’m concerned that my gut reaction is racism.  But it came from something a beloved teacher used with students he knew, and that was meaningful to them.  Which I totally get, but I think the key was the relationship with the teacher.  I don’t see how using it (with its clunky phrasing, concerning ideology, and bad spelling) as a magical incantation with people who don’t have close relationships with adults to curb gun violence.  It seems ridiculous, even if it’s well meaning.  The relationship isn’t there.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by Terabith

[EKS]

58 minutes ago, Idalou said:

If anyone cared enough to google it instead of bashing it, they'd learn the how and why answers.

Is there a link?  The only thing I could find was the Roanoke stuff.

ETA:  I finally discovered that the term "royalty affirmation" was the thing I should be using.  I came up with this article, which was interesting.

Edited July 30, 2023 by EKS

[popmom]

26 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Right, I read that, and it’s why I’m concerned that my gut reaction is racism.  But it came from something a beloved teacher used with students he knew, and that was meaningful to them.  Which I totally get, but I think the key was the relationship with the teacher.  I don’t see how using it (with its clunky phrasing, concerning ideology, and bad spelling) as a magical incarnation with people who don’t have close relationships with adults to curb gun violence.  It seems ridiculous, even if it’s well meaning.  The relationship isn’t there.  

It is no different or damaging to me than a school pep rally for sports. That’s basically what this is—a mini pep rally to motivate students individually. 
 

As an aside…Proper royalty (the ideals they are wanting to convey) is not narcissistic or entitled or violent. That’s the point. 
 

As I said before, I do not believe this will change student outcomes —whether it’s gun violence or literacy. 

[popmom]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

Don’t assume we don’t know what we’re talking about. I’ve known about the connection to royalty for more than a decade now. This is still a bad idea.

In a Christian context, Jesus is king and all believers are children of the King. So, royalty. Are they teaching context? Which context?

Who decides how royalty is supposed to act?

How is saying a mantra supposed to get kids away from gun culture?

 

I don’t think they are referring to Christianity. At all.

Eta: I just read the article. The teacher was a Christian, but he stated that the message is meant for everyone. In my experience I am assuming it’s referring to the themes of African royalty. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by popmom

[Faith-manor]

4 hours ago, EKS said:

I found the city council meeting where this was "discussed."  Here's the link.  It starts at 1:16:36 or so.

There was no discussion.  They didn't even read the affirmation aloud or put it up on a screen (as far as I could tell).  The person who originally submitted it for consideration spoke, and the council voted unanimously to approve it, and that was it.

F.a.c.e.p.a.l.m.

[Garga]

1 hour ago, Idalou said:

If anyone cared enough to google it instead of bashing it, they'd learn the how and why answers. You can see it came from a black man as a way to lift black children up and away from the gun culture. You can also google the royalty aspects and how it pertains to many black families. I don't believe it was ever meant to be recited daily in a public school by all children, but maybe I'm wrong, as I can't find that information.

You can still disagree, but at least know what you're talking about.

 

59 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Right, I read that, and it’s why I’m concerned that my gut reaction is racism.  But it came from something a beloved teacher used with students he knew, and that was meaningful to them.  Which I totally get, but I think the key was the relationship with the teacher.  I don’t see how using it (with its clunky phrasing, concerning ideology, and bad spelling) as a magical incarnation with people who don’t have close relationships with adults to curb gun violence.  It seems ridiculous, even if it’s well meaning.  The relationship isn’t there.  

 

Both of the above. I immediately recognized royalty as having special meaning to black families.

But at the same time, without giving the children a strong leader in the classroom who can explain the affirmation and carefully live it out in the classroom, guiding the children, it’ll be meaningless. 

Ultimately, as a white woman in an area with a demographic of 92% white people (next biggest group is hispanic), I don’t know enough about the time/place/people the declaration is aimed at to judge it.  

Edited July 30, 2023 by Garga

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

Don’t assume we don’t know what we’re talking about. I’ve known about the connection to royalty for more than a decade now. This is still a bad idea.

In a Christian context, Jesus is king and all believers are children of the King. So, royalty. Are they teaching context? Which context?

Who decides how royalty is supposed to act?

How is saying a mantra supposed to get kids away from gun culture?

 

Thank you. Spot on. This is NOT how gun culture will change.

And for the record, I am not pro sports pep rally. It is another form of indoctrination "Sports is more important than education" and time spent on something that doesn't belong when kids still can't adequately read, write, and understand basic mathematics. Band concerts, choir concerts, are not during the school day, just the academic music classes themselves. Students who are not a part of these groups are not compelled to attend performances in the evenings. But the whole school is forced to attend the pep rally for sports. So that is another rant I have. 

I am against the pledge of allegiance as well especially with the addition of "under god. Again, a form of group think, and cult like instead of encouraging the growth of critical thinking among students. There was a 4H pledge thing when we were leaders, but we never learned it, and we never ever had it said at our meetings. 

The fact that it was passed by the council without discussion is pretty pathetic in my opinion, though obviously others do not see it so negatively.

[TechWife]

17 minutes ago, popmom said:

I don’t think they are referring to Christianity. At all.

Eta: I just read the article. The teacher was a Christian, but he stated that the message is meant for everyone. In my experience I am assuming it’s referring to the themes of African royalty. 

Yes, I make the same assumption. But, we can’t know if all of the teachers will be in agreement on that all of the time. The fact is, it can be  confusing, and not just for the teachers, but for the kids, too. 

[Grace Hopper]

I always thought affirmations were supposed to be personal?

I would’t be happy if my child were asked to do this daily. I think many of the kids will just eye-roll it, but I’d express my displeasure to administrators anyway. 

[Heartstrings]

9 hours ago, EKS said:

Apparently the statement was adopted as the "official affirmation statement" for the city of Roanoke.  They seem to think it will help curb gun violence.  See pages 202-204 in this document.

I guess its likely to be at least as useful as thoughts and prayers. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

Yes, I make the same assumption. But, we can’t know if all of the teachers will be in agreement on that all of the time. The fact is, it can be  confusing, and not just for the teachers, but for the kids, too. 

I actually assume the opposite due to the rise of religious fascism.

But even if it isn't, it is still not the way to go about changing violence culture for the better.

In practicality, this just seems like a disaster that will.hopefully, quickly fall by the way side. I hate that these are the kinds of answers to which leaders flock. It is a way of saying, 'See? We are doing something" without actually doing anything.

[rebcoola]

Nope from me. I do recognize some of the language being similar to things my black god father would say. 

I just can't with the reverence/respect for elders nope way to much respect=obedience history in America for that to be a safe thing to teach. 

I would like America to be kinder and care about community in general but this is not the way.

[EKS]

50 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

It is a way of saying, 'See? We are doing something" without actually doing anything.

I agree with you that this sort of "leading" is rampant.  At least it is in this neck of the woods.  For example, in an effort to single handedly fix climate change, our local city council keeps lowering the speed limits in our small town (to ridiculous levels) in order to make driving "more inconvenient."  I kid you not.  The mayor actually used those words.

[Melissa Louise]

Explain to me like I'm five please:

How is royalty a democratic aspiration anywhere?

Monarchy allows a small group of people to inherit disproportionate  resources and power on the basis of nothing at all (blood). 

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I actually assume the opposite due to the rise of religious fascism.

But even if it isn't, it is still not the way to go about changing violence culture for the better.

In practicality, this just seems like a disaster that will.hopefully, quickly fall by the way side. I hate that these are the kinds of answers to which leaders flock. It is a way of saying, 'See? We are doing something" without actually doing anything.

Yeah, it's cheap, it can be this semester's dream that change can happen without tackling any actual problems in the physical world. 

 

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Explain to me like I'm five please:

How is royalty a democratic aspiration anywhere?

Monarchy allows a small group of people to inherit disproportionate  resources and power on the basis of nothing at all (blood). 

 

I think for African American communities, who lost their identities and names and histories when they were kidnapped from Africa, it can be a reminder that they might have been royalty or important in their native cultures?  

I don't think it's a democratic aspiration as much as an attempt for communities that have been constantly maligned and persecuted to find worth.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Terabith

[Halftime Hope]

I am in an area that has a high percentage of African American families, and one of my work colleagues leads a multi-faceted program for children and families: tutoring, mentoring, parenting classes, social events, workshops, career counseling, life-coaching, and so on. She is a deeply committed Christian, and I've heard her use royalty language, kings and queens a lot, but I don't think it is religiously connected, even though that would be natural. I think it's more a cultural thing common in her background.

I doubt she would go along with the "ancestors were created for me" part, but I don't think she would pick apart the "reverence my elders" part like many here have, interpreting it through an abusive lens. I've heard her speaking about and seen her modeling the deep devotion, care and respect for her own elderly, and sometimes difficult, relatives.

Anyway, I think it may be less odd-sounding to someone within an AA culture.

I prefer more simple, but honestly, I think I could make a case for that perspective being more natural to MY culture.

 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Terabith said:

I think for African American communities, who lost their identities and names and histories when they were kidnapped from Africa, it can be a reminder that they might have been royalty or important in their native cultures?  

Yeah, I don't get this. I mean I do, but I don't. 

Most people aren't royalty. That's the point of royalty. Most people in history have been peasants, even when free from literal slavery. 

Perhaps I am being too literal. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I thought that tribal royalty in Africa's past were basically  war chiefs. So even less peaceful then the rich prigs of Europe. 

 

From a non USA perspective absolutly none of it makes sense

[Melissa in Australia]

If it  is suppose to stop gun violence wouldn't it be more straightforward to have some statement that  said Guns kill, Guns are bad. 

[maize]

14 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yeah, I don't get this. I mean I do, but I don't. 

Most people aren't royalty. That's the point of royalty. Most people in history have been peasants, even when free from literal slavery. 

Perhaps I am being too literal. 

Yeah this isn't meant to be taken in a literal way, it's meant to evoke "each person is special and deserving of dignity ".

But, total random bunny trail, while it is true that most of our ancestors were peasants,  it's also true that probably every human alive today is the descendant of powerful kings, warlords, emperors, and chiefs. 

Pure statistical reality. Powerful men and their brothers and nephews and sons and grandsons are remarkably prolific engenderers of children.  We all end up being their descendants.

[Idalou]

The part about royalty is also pertaining to the Bible. My mother's church, with only conservative white folks and not a black person in sight, ends each sermon with a prayer about being members of the royalty family of God. I think it's from the book of Matthew?

 I also think it was just something the city council decreed, the ' official affirmation' of Roanoke. I seriously doubt it will be required to recite it. More of a feel good thing, like when Congress officially designates a day to someone or something. 

Daily affirmations are a pretty big thing. I've heard of them for a long time, like the daily devotional thing, they used to sell them as books. 

I have no idea how it "stops" gun violence. I think it's one small thing done a a way to convince young, impressionable youth in more urban areas that there can be a life outside of the gun culture, that they are worthy and strong and deserving of something better.

I don't want to see any religions or pledges or prayers in school, personally. But I can understand the feeling behind this. I can see it being used in community centers or youth groups programs.But this is also Virginia. The South. Several southern states are legislating religious stuff like the 10 Commandments being posted on every classroom.i think TX has already mandated it.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Idalou

[Melissa Louise]

18 minutes ago, maize said:

Yeah this isn't meant to be taken in a literal way, it's meant to evoke "each person is special and deserving of dignity ".

But, total random bunny trail, while it is true that most of our ancestors were peasants,  it's also true that probably every human alive today is the descendant of powerful kings, warlords, emperors, and chiefs. 

Pure statistical reality. Powerful men and their brothers and nephews and sons and grandsons are remarkably prolific engenderers of children.  We all end up being their descendants.

I don't know about that. I have an extremely well researched family tree, and it is convicts, tenement dwellers, religious refugees and landless labourers at least 350 years back. 

 

 

[maize]

24 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I don't know about that. I have an extremely well researched family tree, and it is convicts, tenement dwellers, religious refugees and landless labourers at least 350 years back. 

 

 

Probability says the chances you don't have royalty somewhere in your ancestry are virtually nill.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/charlemagnes-dna-and-our-universal-royalty

[Melissa Louise]

8 minutes ago, maize said:

Probability says the chances you don't have royalty somewhere in your ancestry are virtually nill.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/charlemagnes-dna-and-our-universal-royalty

I still can't see how that would have any impact on my self-esteem (or that of a student). It would be so far back and so removed from any real-world outcomes to be functionally meaningless.

 

 

[Scarlett]

I think they are using the word royalty when they should be saying ‘dignity’.

 

[Melissa Louise]

If I believed that at some point, my laborer blood was actually royal, I'd be worried about having once been part of the oppressor class 🙂 How many poor humans did my noble ancestors enslave, and otherwise mistreat? This would be very bad for my self-esteem. 

OK, so I submit myself as an example of the kind of student who would lie awake worrying about stuff in this affirmation. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I think they are using the word royalty when they should be saying ‘dignity’.

 

Well, that makes more sense.