Is the US Just Not a Serious Country Anymore?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Do you ever feel like we just aren't a serious country anymore? There are so many problems, and it seems like there is just a cultural apathy about fixing even the most basic things. Examples off the top of my head:

• Cities without clean water
• After the water problems, Jackson, Mississippi stopped having trash pick-up
• Government agencies and businesses still way behind from the pandemic with no apparent plans to catch-up
• As of a couple months ago the IRS still had millions of tax returns from 2021 to process and tens of millions of pieces of unopened mail
• Schools that can't bother (maybe from fear of lawsuits) to discipline violent students, even when they attack their teachers
• Hospitals are now supposed to post prices on their websites, but enforcement is so lax they don't do it or hide it in tiny fonts that are the same color as the background.
• It took until this year for Congress to pass laws saying in-network hospitals can't charge you out-of-network prices for doctors you have no control over using, such as anestheologists.
• Blackouts in California
• States shutting down nuclear and natural gas power plants without having reliable sources of power to take their place.
• Terrible customer service just about everywhere.

Can we please not let this thread descend into political bickering? I get that the media and social media has us all angry at each other all the time, but there are so many things we all agree on. For example, everyone agrees that cities need trash pick-up and clean water. We are a country that put man on the moon before calculators! Surely we can make progress on some of the problems that are non-partisan.

[wintermom]

Thank the Lord (for Canada and beyond) you have a serious military. That's what we're going to need in the future. Thank you!

This thread could potentially get political, so I hope I'm not going down the wrong path. 

[bolt.]

I think a lot of that traces back to a lack of living wages as a baseline, which could support reasonable taxation for reasonable services, served by people also earning living-plus-some wages.

Something about the way capitalism is currently run, regulated, and taxed is functionally diverting normal economic circulation away from everyday folks and normal societal functions -- and towards (I am forced to think) various elite persons. Those people/class seem to function as oligarchs in the perpetuation of that functionality because it is to their benefit, and it is completely intentional. The wealth is accumulating somewhere. "Investors" seem to do well -- and I think the whole system serves them.

I think the way USA has, uniquely among developed nations, persevered in 19th century style fiscal practices for medical services -- speaks to the way an investor class has enough control to prevent the implementation of a modern systematic approach to national healthcare provision. So that's not really about living wages, but it's still about oligarchy.

But I question the phrasing of is the USA serious "any more"? -- I'm not sure it ever was better off (or 'more serious') and I don't know that nostalgia is the most productive lens to view things through. The 'good old days' aren't really a thing that ever was a thing -- as far as I know.

[Pawz4me]

I don't know how to respond w/o getting into politics, at least in a general sense. I think we have way too many unserious politicians. And that goes from the national level all the way down to school boards and local councils. Gerrymandering is a big reason for some of it, but it still comes down to people voting for representatives who seem to be more interested in fighting made up culture wars or in becoming media (including social media) stars than they are in doing useful things for their constituents.

[maize]

There've always been serious issues, in this country and in every other I have lived in. 

Back when we were sending the first men to the moon, there were plenty of serious problems needing to be addressed. We've made significant progress on many of them. 

I find no value in either catastrophizing the present or idealizing the past.

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and trying to do some good.

[Heartstrings]

Unserious is one way to put it. I think we’re at a tipping point, either we’ll rally and start down a path of becoming functional or we’ll tip the other way and begin down the path of becoming a failed state.   I think the failed state path ends in theocracy and oligarchy, but I don’t have a crystal ball.  
 

We definitely have way to many unserious politicians and politicians who aren’t even trying to do a job besides self aggrandizement and hoarding money and power.  

[JumpyTheFrog]

40 minutes ago, maize said:

Back when we were sending the first men to the moon, there were plenty of serious problems needing to be addressed. We've made significant progress on many of them. 

Oh, I agree that excellent progress was made in many areas since then. Although I mentioned going to the moon, in my mind I'm really comparing things more to the 90s.

 

31 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

We definitely have way to many unserious politicians and politicians who aren’t even trying to do a job besides self aggrandizement and hoarding money and power.  

This is more what I was thinking - not that decades ago everything was better, but that politicians and businesses made serious attempts at fixing problems. I know corruption has always existed, but it seems like it's getting worse (or at least more obvious).

[Bootsie]

11 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

Oh, I agree that excellent progress was made in many areas since then. Although I mentioned going to the moon, in my mind I'm really comparing things more to the 90s.

 

This is more what I was thinking - not that decades ago everything was better, but that politicians and businesses made serious attempts at fixing problems. I know corruption has always existed, but it seems like it's getting worse (or at least more obvious).

I don't know that this have gotten any worse, I think it is that your awareness of it has increased.  Cigarette companies covered up health issues, the Ford Pinto had a known-high risk of bursting into flames, asbestos coverup... many examples from the past can be brought up that rival today's issues.  

I am not suggesting that we take the serious issue of today lightly; I think we should work hard to address them.  

[freesia]

Not to minimize the issues at all, but we are incredibly functional compared to many countries. I’ve lived in countries where the entire country hasn’t seen municipal trash pick up in years and there are huge piles on the street corners and it’s common to hire personal guards for your house.  A place where the police and bus drivers stop getting paid.  I could go on. We have states and cities which need more support than they are getting. The how’s and who of the support is where we delve into the political realm. I cannot tell you how much safer and cleaner I feel here—even when I lived in DC when it was the “murder capital.” We need to keep focusing on doing better. We need to keep on top of corruption. But we are so much more functional than other places. The fact that you expect functionality at a high level speaks to how well we have it here. Some countries you cannot expect anything to work. The organization I worked with hired workers to deal with paperwork with the government bc nothing EVER went in a functional manner. 

[City Mouse]

I think that the issues have always been there but the advent of social media and the internet have made people more aware of what is going on. 

I recently watched this YouTube video https://youtu.be/AWJehj5oRZ4 about the man who invented/discovered leaded gasoline and Freon. There were people all along that had fears that both were dangerous, but companies choose to cover up any potential hazards.

[lauraw4321]

Post office is another one. It was once so reliable. Now it’s a mess. 

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

Not to minimize the issues at all, but we are incredibly functional compared to many countries. I’ve lived in countries where the entire country hasn’t seen municipal trash pick up in years and there are huge piles on the street corners and it’s common to hire personal guards for your house.  A place where the police and bus drivers stop getting paid.  I could go on. We have states and cities which need more support than they are getting. The how’s and who of the support is where we delve into the political realm. I cannot tell you how much safer and cleaner I feel here—even when I lived in DC when it was the “murder capital.” We need to keep focusing on doing better. We need to keep on top of corruption. But we are so much more functional than other places. The fact that you expect functionality at a high level speaks to how well we have it here. Some countries you cannot expect anything to work. The organization I worked with hired workers to deal with paperwork with the government bc nothing EVER went in a functional manner. 

For me, the fall from functional (not perfect, but functional) into the current dysfunction makes me concerned that this is just the beginning.  We could fall from functional to sort of functional to completely not functional in a generation.  We could easily become one of those fully non functional places you mention if we aren’t careful, and I fear that as a whole we are not being careful.  We can’t take it for granted.  

I think of the pictures of Iran in the 70s with the modern hairstyles and mini skirts.  The men and women in those pictures probably could not have predicted in that moment what the future would look like.   
 

Im not saying these things will come to pass and America will fall, gloom and doom, just that we shouldn’t act as if it was an impossibility.  Great powers fall, we aren’t immune from that. 

[TechWife]

I think we've always had problems. I think a significant challenge is the changed attitude toward public service, from Washington DC all the way down to local school volunteers. The goal has changed from one of actually working in service to the people through the government run structures to one of preservation of power by both individuals and groups. There isn't a particular goal of what to do with that power (like fix the water supply) other than to take actions to make sure that the power is preserved.

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

For me, the fall from functional (not perfect, but functional) into the current dysfunction makes me concerned that this is just the beginning.  We could fall from functional to sort of functional to completely not functional in a generation.  We could easily become one of those fully non functional places you mention if we aren’t careful, and I fear that as a whole we are not being careful.  We can’t take it for granted.  

I think of the pictures of Iran in the 70s with the modern hairstyles and mini skirts.  The men and women in those pictures probably could not have predicted in that moment what the future would look like.   
 

Im not saying these things will come to pass and America will fall, gloom and doom, just that we shouldn’t act as if it was an impossibility.  Great powers fall, we aren’t immune from that. 

Oh, yes, I agree. But we don’t need to catastrophize. All the emotion and panic seems to me politically motivated on both sides. It takes energy away from what we can be doing and on looking for solutions and working together. 

[SKL]

Expecting the government to fix everything might be part of the problem

[Heartstrings]

11 minutes ago, freesia said:

Oh, yes, I agree. But we don’t need to catastrophize. All the emotion and panic seems to me politically motivated on both sides. It takes energy away from what we can be doing and on looking for solutions and working together. 

A little bit of emotion could be a good thing.  Our voter turn out is incredibly low.  Only 2/3 voted in the last presidential election and less than 1/2  voted in the midterm. So many are just not bothering to participate in any level.   The small number of us who are heavily invested in the day to day machinations are just so loud that it’s hard to remember that we are a small minority.  

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

A little bit of emotion could be a good thing.  Our voter turn out is incredibly low.  Only 2/3 voted in the last presidential election and less than 1/2  voted in the midterm. So many are just not bothering to participate in any level.   The small number of us who are heavily invested in the day to day machinations are just so loud that it’s hard to remember that we are a small minority.  

That’s true. But it’s like the boy who cried wolf. We aren’t on the verge of collapse right now. Catastrophizing only makes most people roll their eyes and others so full of anxiety that they  aren’t horribly productive in the solution area. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I know this may sound trite and probably is corny at best, but the other day I was driving home and witnessed a truly horrible car accident with multiple fatalities and several critically injured people.  I was the first medical person on scene(and it was a county I work part time as a paramedic in) and began triage, which was honestly the first time I really have ever had to make those kind of decisions. This was a rare type of accident.

I was one person, and then joined by a nurse and someone who had been a medical corpsman in Iraq a long time ago. The nurse asked what do we do? And the veteran replied, we do the best we can with what we have in front of us, and let the rest go.

That is my view of life in general. I can vote, and I can lobby, and sometimes it makes a difference—like for years I have lobbied at the state level to put increased mandatory training in all levels of medical education in the state on autism and pediatric mental health emergencies, and it’s happening this year. But in reality, all I can really do is what I can with what I have. Last night that was helping a homeless person connect with a charity who could get her a pregnancy test and a motel voucher for a couple of days.  I’ll never fix homelessness, but at least she had a warm place for the night. That means voting out corruption in my own very small town politics and showing up at board meetings. I know I live in an area with a lot of food insecurity, so we donate cash whenever I have some extra and when I worked on an urban ambulance I had a backpack of shelf stable food with me that I could give if I met someone in need. 

I cannot catastrophize but neither do I want to diminish the very real problems.  But I know my limits, and I have tried to spend my life doing the best I can with what I have. I am still learning to let the rest go.

[Terabith]

Look, the thing to understand about the United States is that we haven’t been a country since the 70’s.  We’re three corporations in a trench coat with a gigantic military.  

[MEmama]

Like every country, the US certainly has Big Problems. I wouldn't consider any on the OP's list to be all that major or different than anywhere else though. Education has limitations nearly everywhere, garbage pickup is sporadic and not immune to strikes in even the most "cultured" countries, health care is in crisis all over the world--even/especially in countries with socialized medicine. Blackouts are a function of weather and an aging power grid, problems plenty of places face. Customer service here is, in my experience, more universally pleasant than I've experienced anywhere in the world.

We aren't the only western country slipping into fascism, we aren't the only country whose politicians put party and self interests over those of the country they were elected to care for and represent. We aren't the only fractured country, not the only one whose provinces/states/colonies/pieces grumble about seceding now and again, not the only one with long histories of racism, abuse and misogyny and hideous homophobia. We aren't the only western country trying to erase trans folks. We are far from the worst environmentally, especially given our population and dismal land use. 
 

What we do have is a people who talk about the problems and a majority who face them head on instead of sticking our heads in the sand. We don't have to pretend we're the best, because we aren't. No where is. It took living in a different country for me to deeply appreciate that about Americans. We talk and talk and talk about our wrongs--and goodness knows we take an awful lot of (usually ignorant) flack from non-Americans--but we face up to the fact that we can do better. We don't generally riot as is common in some other countries, but nor do we usually assassinate those we don't agree with.  We definitely don't pretend problems don't exist and that alone makes me feel pretty proud (proud isn't really a word that resonates with me but I'm not sure what might be more accurate).

Yes, there's work to do, without a doubt. And yes, it's a pretty fraught time right now. But the same is true *everywhere*; there is no such thing as " American (or any other country) exceptionalism.

[Happy2BaMom]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

Expecting the government to fix everything might be part of the problem

A tactic that is now in full-on use by both sides, yes.

Me, I'd like the government to be able to fix anything. Anything at all would be nice.

(Side note: my local gov't is still pretty effective. To a lesser extent, so is my state. This comment is more directed at federal level.)

*******************************************

A few years ago, I really wanted to leave the country. I knew *many* people who had done that, and whose lives were greatly improved by doing so (health care, calmer societies, greatly reduced gun violence, etc). Unfortunately, in the same vein that MEmama has discussed, most of those places have also gone to sh*t in the last 3-5 years. Lots of problems everywhere, and I really can't name a country which doesn't have significant problems that concern me.

[Katy]

I once had a political science professor (and huge fan of Jefferson) say it's a waste of time to ever worry about the state of politics, because the pendulum is designed to swing.  And just when it seems it has swung too far, it will rapidly head back in the other direction. I don't always trust that, but the older I get the more I see the truth in it.

Having said that, I'd still like to move to New Zealand.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Katy

[SKL]

Two song come to mind.

"American Pie."

"We Didn't Start the Fire."

[Sneezyone]

6 hours ago, freesia said:

Oh, yes, I agree. But we don’t need to catastrophize. All the emotion and panic seems to me politically motivated on both sides. It takes energy away from what we can be doing and on looking for solutions and working together. 

If you're not directly impacted by the day to day machinations it can seem that way. For those who have been impacted since the beginning of recent wild swings, and particularly by the even more recent, targeted, wild swings, it hardly feels politically motivated by 'both sides'. It feels deeply personal and motivated by animus.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

6 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

Post office is another one. It was once so reliable. Now it’s a mess. 

Intentionally so.

[Sneezyone]

6 hours ago, freesia said:

Not to minimize the issues at all, but we are incredibly functional compared to many countries. I’ve lived in countries where the entire country hasn’t seen municipal trash pick up in years and there are huge piles on the street corners and it’s common to hire personal guards for your house.  A place where the police and bus drivers stop getting paid.  I could go on. We have states and cities which need more support than they are getting. The how’s and who of the support is where we delve into the political realm. I cannot tell you how much safer and cleaner I feel here—even when I lived in DC when it was the “murder capital.” We need to keep focusing on doing better. We need to keep on top of corruption. But we are so much more functional than other places. The fact that you expect functionality at a high level speaks to how well we have it here. Some countries you cannot expect anything to work. The organization I worked with hired workers to deal with paperwork with the government bc nothing EVER went in a functional manner. 

Have you been to many countries and experienced their function/dysfunction such that you can compare? I would, personally, accept personal responsibility for my trash if my kids were at less risk of being shot. Having my kids go to school on buses with armed guards and trash fires felt safer than living in the U.S. and, statistically, it *was* safer.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[freesia]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Have you been to many countries and experienced their function/dysfunction such that you can compare? I would, personally, accept personal responsibility for my trash if my kids were at less risk of being shot. Having my kids go to school on buses with armed guards and trash fires felt safer than living in the U.S. and, statistically, it *was* safer.

Yes. I lived for several years in the country I was referencing. I knew people who were assaulted with guns and machetes present. 

[Heartstrings]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Have you been to many countries and experienced their function/dysfunction such that you can compare? I would, personally, accept personal responsibility for my trash if my kids were at less risk of being shot. Having my kids go to school on buses with armed guards and trash fires felt safer than living in the U.S. and, statistically, it *was* safer.

I think the countries we compare ourselves to shows just how far we’ve slid without fully realizing it.  We used to be peers to England, Germany, Japan, Canada or Australia.  We no longer mentally put ourselves in that category.   We now think of ourselves in a category of less developed, less functional countries. That is a subconscious acknowledgment that we no longer fit in the same category we once did.  

Sure, other wealthy developed countries are having issues right now too, but I doubt an average German citizen wants to trade their health care system for ours, or our 50th percentile school district, or pay the cost for a 2 year old to go to daycare just for funsies. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes. I lived for several years in the country I was referencing. I knew people who were assaulted with guns and machetes present. 

One country, not COUNTRIES. And, yes, there are worse countries and I don't want to live there either.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

I think the countries we compare ourselves to shows just how far we’ve slid without fully realizing it.  We used to be peers to England, Germany, Japan, Canada or Australia.  We no longer mentally put ourselves in that category.   We are now think of ourselves in a category of less developed, less functional countries. That is a subconscious acknowledgment that we no longer fit in the same category we once did.  

Sure, other wealthy developed countries are having issues right now too, but I doubt an average German citizen wants to trade their health care system for ours, or our 50th percentile school district, or pay the cost for a 2 year old to go to daycare just for funsies. 

Exactly. Our peers aren't countries in which machetes are routinely wielded...or are they? In which case...CRINGE and NO. That is *not* OK.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Heartstrings]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Exactly. Our peers aren't countries in which machetes are routinely wielded...or are they? In which case...CRINGE and NO. That is *not* OK.

Well…looking at our gun and knife violence numbers….yeah.  Pretty sure that’s where we are.   Our peer countries have to be places where it’s not safe to walk after dark, you could get shot at the grocery store, or for ringing the wrong doorbell.   

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

One country, not COUNTRIES. And, yes, there are worse countries and I don't want to live there either.

The point I was making was that the US is not a failed state or not not a serious country. We have tons of things to work on and need to keep working hard at it. I was not saying things were good. 

[Roadrunner]

With all its faults, this country is amazing.

[Heartstrings]

32 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

With all its faults, this country is amazing.

I believe in its potential.   

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, freesia said:

The point I was making was that the US is not a failed state or not not a serious country. We have tons of things to work on and need to keep working hard at it. I was not saying things were good. 

Who is willing to do/serious about doing this work? That seems like a critical question right now.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

I think the countries we compare ourselves to shows just how far we’ve slid without fully realizing it.  We used to be peers to England, Germany, Japan, Canada or Australia.  We no longer mentally put ourselves in that category.   We now think of ourselves in a category of less developed, less functional countries. That is a subconscious acknowledgment that we no longer fit in the same category we once did.  

Well, I've never been to Europe. So I don't want to say things I have not actually experienced.

I do feel safer in the US as a woman than I do in Japan, especially in a business setting. Maybe it was my fault (I may have smiled too much - I know now some countries view the normal amount of American smiling to be quite flirtatious), I've never felt that undressed and oggled by an American man than I did giving a technical presentation to that group of Japanese men.

I don't know if you count China as a functional, developed country. I appreciate that I can complain about the US. I appreciate that I wasn't "tracked" into either a humanities field or a math field entering into high school. That I could pretty easily go either way into college and in reality change career course into adulthood depending on how much work I want to put in.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Well, I've never been to Europe. So I don't want to say things I have not actually experienced.

I do feel safer in the US as a woman than I do in Japan, especially in a business setting. Maybe it was my fault (I may have smiled too much - I know now some countries view the normal amount of American smiling to be quite flirtatious), I've never felt that undressed and oggled by an American man than I did giving a technical presentation to that group of Japanese men.

I don't know if you count China as a functional, developed country. I appreciate that I can complain about the US. I appreciate that I wasn't "tracked" into either a humanities field or a math field entering into high school. That I could pretty easily go either way into college and in reality change career course into adulthood depending on how much work I want to put in.

Depends on our perspective b/c as a black woman I felt seen as an oddity in China but not a sexual object and my best friends lived in Japan for many years (both halvsies) without feeling more objectified than the US. If academic tracking is the only hook to hang our hat on that is slim comfort indeed.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Clarita]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Depends on our perspective b/c as a black woman I felt seen as an oddity in China but not a sexual object and my best friends lived in Japan for many years (both halvsies) without feeling more objectified than the US.

I can't actually read  people's minds but it was a matter of what they felt like they could say and do to me because they felt I was attractive versus what a typical American man felt like they could. Especially in a professional setting as opposed to a bar (maybe at a bar it'd be the same I don't know). 

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, Clarita said:

I can't actually read  people's minds but it was a matter of what they felt like they could say and do to me because they felt I was attractive versus what a typical American man felt like they could. Especially in a professional setting as opposed to a bar (maybe at a bar it'd be the same I don't know). 

In Japan you were statistically much less likely to be violently assaulted though, so I don’t know that that’s a trade off I would take. American men might behave better in an office setting but you are overall less safe. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

I can't actually read  people's minds but it was a matter of what they felt like they could say and do to me because they felt I was attractive versus what a typical American man felt like they could. Especially in a professional setting as opposed to a bar (maybe at a bar it'd be the same I don't know). 

You didn't address my point, which to me is significant, because white women often center themselves as THE NORM and leave out other women/beauty norms/standards. One country doesn't define Asia and white women don't define the female experience in America or overseas. In Bahrain, white women often hated it. They also, often but not always, flouted cultural standards of dress and behavior. I had zero issues. In America, I've had senior retired military personnel hit on me via Facebook despite having a private profile and saying publicly (AND IN MY PROFILE) I'm married to a service member and asking them not to--IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS. I don't feel like that's normal. That's not about attractiveness. It's about boundaries. I am not treated as a person universally worthy of respect in the US. I am overseas.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Heartstrings]

24 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

If academic tracking is the only hook to hang our hat on that is slim comfort indeed

Another thread was discussing how so many American kids get lost on math around 5th grade.  I’m not sure that’s a lot different than being tracked.  Either way math heavy fields are closed.  We just call it different things.  It is true that kids with an aptitude for both get to have more choices.  I flirted with a math degree for awhile before deciding I really loved the social sciences more.

 

Not having to worry about paying for college would have been nice though.   How many bright American kids never go or never finish because of cost? 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

Another thread was discussing how so many American kids get lost on math around 5th grade.  I’m not sure that’s a lot different than being tracked.  Either way math heavy fields are closed.  We just all it different things.  It is true that kids with an aptitude for both get to have more choices.  I flirted with a math degree for awhile before deciding I really loved the social sciences more.

 

Not having to worry about paying for college would have been nice though.   

It's not. It's less of an issue tho where you have trained pros who aren't, themselves, math-phobic, and can see potential. We don't have that either. The proof is in our social mobility index/numbers.

[Nart]

Never mind. I am trying to stay positive so just erased what I posted. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Nart

[Sneezyone]

36 minutes ago, Nart said:

I just don’t understand how we got to a point in this country where people have a right to camp out anywhere including blocking sidewalks, aggressive panhandling, sleeping in parks where kids are trying to play sports, being completely drunk/wasted on the streets, etc. 

I spent the summer with relatives in Costa Rica and Panama when I was 16. I vividly remember passing by shantytowns, seeing people beg in the streets, and people living in tough conditions and thinking- wow people are so poor, it’s so different in the United States. Granted I had a limited view of the US living in a suburb. 

Now in the coastal town where I live there are so many homeless people, there is trash all around, people begging on so many intersections, etc. I cut through one of the wealthiest small towns in CA today (the average home price is over 3.5 million dollars) and really wanted a cool drink for my ride home. As I pulled into a gas station/mini mart that is on a one lane road in each direction (so not a busy commercial area of a large city) and I had to make sure I didn’t run over the stuff strewn around a homeless guy who was sprawled out on the sidewalk while trying to avoid a guy begging for money with a sign at the intersection and pull into a parking space while trying to avoid a guy passed out against a wall who looked up and asked for money as I got out of my car.

I used to be sympathetic but I am becoming so jaded. 

Lemme challenge you on this, not because I know what right and wrong is but because I saw a different approach and it shifted my thinking.

In South Africa, the constitution guarantees people the right to make a living by hawking their wares streetside. RADICAL TO AMERICANS, normal to locals.

In South Africa, there were TONS of shantytowns. And? Residence doesn't equal value, values or worth.

In South Africa, I wasn't afraid for my safety in admittedly touristy, historically 'black', areas even tho me/my kids were considered 'colored/mixed'. We were offered *with a wink and a nod* local discounts!

In South Africa, the biggest fear I felt was in the resort areas/majority white areas where our AirBnB was located, not because of panhandlers but because of people who might assume we were locals and not tourists or guests.

Have you ever been assaulted by a panhandler?

Has trash ever caused you physical pain?

Has homelessness ever resulted in harm to you other than an extra step to walk around and pretend not to see?

Have you ever been forced to give money?

Do you not see how your 'concerns' about becoming jaded are small/petty/gross?

BEING POSITIVE DOESN'T MEAN BEING BLIND/ESCHEWING INTROSPECTION.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[BusyMom5]

I think its hard to compare the US to other nations due to its huge size and  Geography.  

I think one big pitfall we have gotten into is giving our Federal government so much power to "fix" things, when local governments are closer to the issues that need fixed- roads, water,  schools- even the type of education offered,  Healthcare, crime prevention,  drugs, etc.  It sounds reasonable to put national standards, but I think a lot of issues would be easier to address at a local level without as much red tape.  Its not like the standards are being met!  But because of the way school funding is tied to national standards,  schools cannot even remediate their students!  

I feel like people would be more loyal and tied into the community at a local level.  Our federal government is so big, you often wonder why you should even bother participating.   Its dysfunctional due to all the red tape involved in getting any projects approved, funded, managed and completed.  Its easy to see a lot of wasted tax dollars because no one is actively managing them- its too big for anyone to watch!  

I find myself more willing to donate to local Foundations and Causes because I see where the money needs to go and I feel like it will make a real difference.  I don't feel that way about my tax dollars.  I *hope* they get some of our roads fixed.  I hope that someone will look at our electrical grid and realize that before we get fleets of electric cars, we need to have a grid that can support lots of cars being charged.  We don't have that, not even close.  

[Sneezyone]

25 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I think its hard to compare the US to other nations due to its huge size and  Geography.  

I think one big pitfall we have gotten into is giving our Federal government so much power to "fix" things, when local governments are closer to the issues that need fixed- roads, water,  schools- even the type of education offered,  Healthcare, crime prevention,  drugs, etc.  It sounds reasonable to put national standards, but I think a lot of issues would be easier to address at a local level without as much red tape.  Its not like the standards are being met!  But because of the way school funding is tied to national standards,  schools cannot even remediate their students!  

I feel like people would be more loyal and tied into the community at a local level.  Our federal government is so big, you often wonder why you should even bother participating.   Its dysfunctional due to all the red tape involved in getting any projects approved, funded, managed and completed.  Its easy to see a lot of wasted tax dollars because no one is actively managing them- its too big for anyone to watch!  

I find myself more willing to donate to local Foundations and Causes because I see where the money needs to go and I feel like it will make a real difference.  I don't feel that way about my tax dollars.  I *hope* they get some of our roads fixed.  I hope that someone will look at our electrical grid and realize that before we get fleets of electric cars, we need to have a grid that can support lots of cars being charged.  We don't have that, not even close.  

How does this jive with current, impenetrable local/state gerrymandering that makes it practically impossible for local/state policy to reflect the will of residents? Should the federal government ignore that disconnect? Interceding where state and local laws/politicians failed to uphold universal rights is how we achieved progress on civil rights for ethnic minorities.

I agree that federal spending is hard to oversee/control. I'm just not convinced that we are selecting overseers (congress members) for their skill/capacity in this area.

I attended the dedication for the local monument to the end of massive resistance today. If you don't know what that is, look it up and shame on your teachers. On the same day, a state official declared "DEI is dead". Now, our Governor isn't known for hiring competent folks but this was a new level of stupid. DEI includes the ADA, Civil Rights Act, and more. They are not dead and will never be dead. 

In my mind, it includes electric grid equity/reliability and broadband equity as well, just as our forebears saw rail.

There is nothing new. 

Local issues aren't, really, local.

They're national.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Carrie12345]

Can I say anti-intellectualism without it being political?

We don’t all need to be geniuses, but we do need to recognize people who know what they’re talking about.

It’s kind of chuckle worthy(ish) when my mental health issues cause me to doubt my anesthesiologists’ ability to not kill me as they cover my face with night-night juice, but I’m not so far gone that I think I can do better without medical school.

[Terabith]

7 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Who is willing to do/serious about doing this work? That seems like a critical question right now.

I think one of the core issues is that nobody CAN do this work now.  Our governmental system is specifically designed at state and federal levels to disenfranchise voters.  Citizens United means that corporations count far, far more than people.  Gerrymandering and honestly a government that amplifies rural voices means that votes make relatively little difference.  We set up a school to prison pipeline to guarantee slave labor and to remove people’s ability to vote.  These are core parts of the process, not really issues that can be tweaked.  It’s fundamentally broken.  

[maize]

26 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I think one of the core issues is that nobody CAN do this work now.  Our governmental system is specifically designed at state and federal levels to disenfranchise voters.  Citizens United means that corporations count far, far more than people.  Gerrymandering and honestly a government that amplifies rural voices means that votes make relatively little difference.  We set up a school to prison pipeline to guarantee slave labor and to remove people’s ability to vote.  These are core parts of the process, not really issues that can be tweaked.  It’s fundamentally broken.  

Things were fundamentally broken when black people were disenfranchised. Things were fundamentally broken when women were disenfranchised. 

That didn't prevent people from working to fix core parts of the process that needed fixing.

[maize]

I know the voice that says "can't" and urges despair. It is not a truth-telling voice.

We are not helpless.  Oh, one individual alone can't fix things that are broken in a society or a country. And even the efforts of many individuals combined can't fix things quickly.

But broken systems can be fixed and unhealthy social patters can be changed and the good done by an indicidual or a group is never without meaning.

I don't anticipate that human nature--along with it's associated greed, self-centeredness, and fear--driven behaviors--will change. I don't expect that humans in this country or any other will ever live in a utopia free from problems and concerns.

That can't be the goal. 

What we can aim for is addressing problematic issues that crop up in our time and within our sphere, however broad or narrow that may be. We can try to make things a little easier for those around us and those who come after us. We can try to preserve systems that allow for freedom from coercion. We can try to preserve and strengthen systems that keep government and corporate actors accountable to the larger public. We can cultivate a culture of seeking to understand and allow for different choices and different viewpoints. 

We can make the difference that is ours to make--individually and collectively. 

Will the future be without back-slides and discouragements and new-and-thornier problems? Of course not! 

Does our future hold promise of hope and improvement and courageous actions and movements to address those problems? Absolutely.

Onward friends!