I need a hug.

[itsheresomewhere]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Was it the right amount for the property where they were supposed to go?  It seems like they could have done big damage even if they had gone to the correct property. 

Nope. Both of our yards are about the same size.  Honestly, I do think if they had done the right yard, they would be paying for repairing it.  

[ikslo]

20 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

.LI would also consider if there needs to be any remediation done to the soil to make it safe to plant edibles again.

This. Just replanting may not work because they have ruined your soil.

eta: oh, I see now this was covered.

So mad on your behalf. I would have been bawling, too. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by ikslo

[pinball]

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I filed a police report for the just in case. It might not be needed but good to have.  The estimates so far just for the soil removal, getting clean soil, grass seed and  dead plant removal is well into the thousands.  This doesn’t include plants.  One landscaper said they used twice as much as they should for a yard my size.  
 

Once again, I appreciate you all for your kind words.  My beloved neighbor brought me over a huge amount of plant catalogs to cheer me up. She is such a jewel. 

What crime did they commit? 
 

This sounds like a civil issue and police are usually pretty quick to point that out

[ikslo]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

What crime did they commit? 
 

This sounds like a civil issue and police are usually pretty quick to point that out

Trespassing, destruction of property, negligence…

Edited March 2, 2023 by ikslo

[Lady Florida.]

Oh that's awful! I'd be in tears, as I imagine you probably were/still are. (((((Many Hugs)))))

[Faith-manor]

22 minutes ago, ikslo said:

Trespassing, destruction of property, negligence…

And some folks have MAJOR health problems from even being exposed to those chemicals. So add poisoning to the list though that was not the intent. It would come under the more serious property destruction laws here, not the lesser ones.

[pinball]

22 minutes ago, ikslo said:

Trespassing, destruction of property, negligence…

There is no proof of destruction of property…

lawn chemicals don’t kill tree and shrubs in a few hours

negligence is a civil thing, for professionals…

[pinball]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

And some folks have MAJOR health problems from even being exposed to those chemicals. So add poisoning to the list though that was not the intent. It would come under the more serious property destruction laws here, not the lesser ones.

Links?

[Grace Hopper]

4 minutes ago, pinball said:

There is no proof of destruction of property…

lawn chemicals don’t kill tree and shrubs in a few hours

negligence is a civil thing, for professionals…

The poison can kill animals in the habitat immediately, including animals that contribute to the soil quality, and wildlife and pets that may have come onto the property following application. 
 

FWIW I don’t think the intention of a police report is to press criminal charges so much as to build a fully documented case for compensation. However, depending on the chemical, state and/or federal laws may have been broken. 

[pinball]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

The poison can kill animals in the habitat immediately, including animals that contribute to the soil quality, and wildlife and pets that may have come onto the property following application. 
 

FWIW I don’t think the intention of a police report is to press criminal charges so much as to build a fully documented case for compensation. However, depending on the chemical, state and/or federal laws may have been broken. 

What poison?

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, pinball said:

What poison?

Sometimes I think you’re just trolling for confused reactions to match your avatar. 

[pinball]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

Sometimes I think you’re just trolling for confused reactions to match your avatar. 

It’s not trolling to want to know know the name of the substance that caused such immediate, widespread, and wanton destruction.

 

[teachermom2834]

Not petty at all! I have two blackberry bushes that bring me so much joy I would cry to lose them. I can’t even imagine the magnitude of your loss. 

[purpleowl]

22 minutes ago, pinball said:

What poison?

The poison. The poison for plants. The poison chosen specially to kill plants. The plants' poison.

That poison.

[purpleowl]

@itsheresomewhere I'm so very sorry this happened. You are not being petty.

[pinball]

10 minutes ago, purpleowl said:

The poison. The poison for plants. The poison chosen specially to kill plants. The plants' poison.

That poison.

What is the name of the substance that did this?

I guess it’s some big secret. Is there a social group that passes this info around? 

[Lady Florida.]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

What is the name of the substance that did this?

I guess it’s some big secret. Is there a social group that passes this info around? 

 

The OP said she needs a hug, not an interrogation. You're badgering her for the name of the poison and your tone suggests you don't believe her plants were killed/damaged. If you can't or won't give the hug she requested why even bother posting in this thread?

Edited March 2, 2023 by Lady Florida.

[fairfarmhand]

We use lots of chemicals on our farm (carefully and appropriately) I can think of several that would do this kind of immediate damage if not properly diluted and carelessly applied.

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

We use lots of chemicals on our farm (carefully and appropriately) I can think of several that would do this kind of immediate damage if not properly diluted and carelessly applied.

 There are many things done on farms/ in about that are not done in residential areas…

 

[pinball]

10 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

The OP said she needs a hug, not an interrogation. You're badgering her for the name of the poison and your tone suggests you don't believe her plants were killed/damaged. If you can't or won't give the hug she requested why even bother posting in this thread?

It’s valuable information that I think would be essential to share

[Miss Tick]

6 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

We use lots of chemicals on our farm (carefully and appropriately) I can think of several that would do this kind of immediate damage if not properly diluted and carelessly applied.

Interesting, I assumed glyphosphate, but I'm not wise in the ways of lawn chemicals. I do remember years ago a woman who described regularly meeting an expert witness in cases like this, although usually improper solution rather than the wrong years. Gosh, they could have made this mistake at so many other yards where people have so much lower sentimental connection. I mean, it would still be bad, but this sounds horrible and affected so many people!

[pinball]

Will someone please link me to the Social Group where the name of the substance has been shared?

K thx bie 

thru PM, please

Edited March 2, 2023 by pinball

[Lady Florida.]

5 minutes ago, pinball said:

It’s valuable information that I think would be essential to share

 

And continued badgering helps the OP how? Perhaps you should start your own thread asking for this information and leave this one up for those of us who wish to offer support to @@itsheresomewhere 

[TheReader]

@pinball  - I'm not the OP, but here is a link explaining how damage from herbicides *that even drift onto vegetable plants through wind, or even blown leaf/grass clippings, etc* can do lasting damage to plants (vegetables) and the plant will need to be removed. 

I don't know the herbicide that was used in this case, obviously, but since it was directly sprayed on, in what the OP has stated was an improper dilution, and in a quantity too much for the yard on top of that, I think paired with this info (that indirect contact/exposure can cause a vegetable plant to die/need to be removed), it's more than sufficient to say that the OP is not exaggerating or overreacting about this, at all.  

https://extension.unl.edu/statewide/stanton/herbicide-damage-to-vegetable-plants/

[Moonhawk]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

It’s not trolling to want to know know the name of the substance that caused such immediate, widespread, and wanton destruction.

 

Politely, it is not trolling to ask once or maybe twice. But the OP has already declined to give that information at this time — you responded to that post, so you know that already — and while you can *want to know*, it does not mean you *need to know* or are *entitled to know.*

If you asking because you sincerely want to know out of concern for yourself or others, you still don’t need to know at this point after the OP declined, and could probably research further for information about common chemicals used to this purpose; that would probably suit your concern better, anyway. And if there’s any other reason for asking, it still does not entitle you to know, and asking further would be at best rude and probably, yes, trolling. 

[cjzimmer1]

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

@pinball  - I'm not the OP, but here is a link explaining how damage from herbicides *that even drift onto vegetable plants through wind, or even blown leaf/grass clippings, etc* can do lasting damage to plants (vegetables) and the plant will need to be removed. 

I don't know the herbicide that was used in this case, obviously, but since it was directly sprayed on, in what the OP has stated was an improper dilution, and in a quantity too much for the yard on top of that, I think paired with this info (that indirect contact/exposure can cause a vegetable plant to die/need to be removed), it's more than sufficient to say that the OP is not exaggerating or overreacting about this, at all.  

https://extension.unl.edu/statewide/stanton/herbicide-damage-to-vegetable-plants/

I will concur with this 100%.  My relatives own a greenhouse and have had 1000's of dollars of damage done to vegetables plants due to the careless use of lawn pesticides by certain neighbors.  They are actually about 1/4 mile away but when they put in on when it's really hot, it does aerosolize and blow into the greenhouses.  We have had the plants tested.  It's absolutely lawn spray but we don't have proof of which neighbor is applying it.  

Edited March 3, 2023 by cjzimmer1

[GoVanGogh]

3 hours ago, Spy Car said:

@itsheresomewhere

I've been working hard in my own garden today and thought a lot about what happened to you. 

I'd be devastated, myself. 

Bill

 

 

Same. I am trying to move my compost bins and was thinking ahead to spring planting and thinking about the OP. 
 

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

And some folks have MAJOR health problems from even being exposed to those chemicals. So add poisoning to the list though that was not the intent. It would come under the more serious property destruction laws here, not the lesser ones.

I have young onset Parkinson’s and cannot be around any chemicals. Even walking past the aisles at major home improvement stores is enough to trigger some of my symptoms.
This past summer, I fought with our city over spraying for mosquitoes. I had genetic testing a few years ago and don’t have the known Parkinson’s gene, doctors at this time think my case is previous chemical exposure. (Grew up in a rural farming community with crop dusters.) I asked the city about their liability to exposing homeowners and the employees mixing and applying the mosquito spray. Our town had just lost a young firefighter to cancer deemed occupational exposure. The city said they contract out the spraying so it is on that company, not the city. I have been thinking about that ever since, esp now with this post… We (society) pay low wage workers to do (in my opinion) crap jobs that we don’t want to do ourselves (apply chemicals). Then when they get cancer (or Parkinson’s), we (society) dont want to offer compensation. (Healthcare, better wages, etc.) The horticulture field and our food supply chain is filled with low wage workers, often undocumented workers, yet we are so dependent on them for everything from bedding plants bought at the box store to the apples we feed our kids. My other issue with the city spraying for mosquitoes - I know that 1% of people infected by West Nile will have severe neurological symptoms, but we don’t know how many people (like me) may have long term health problems related to the chemicals. I don’t know where the balance is. The residents I spoke with didn’t want the city to spray. Yet there is always a vocal group that insist on spraying. I was successful in getting my area of town on a no-spray list, as I am trying to grow as much of my food (organically) as possible. I was thankful that, at a minimum, the city was responsive to my request/demand that they avoid spraying in my area. 
 

Several people have commented about having signs posted regarding no-spray zone. I would love to do that, but I also wonder if the workers would even notice? This thread really has me paranoid now. I have been in a local garden club for many years and know of a fellow member who had a neighbor “accidentally” under-dilute and over-spray plants on his side of a wrought iron fence. This was just two years ago.. It destroyed half of her garden. I don’t recall what chemical he sprayed with, but it was one that needs a commercial license to buy and apply. He got the chemical from “a buddy in the horticulture field” and didn’t know what he was dealing with. The major problem with chemicals is that the Average Joe doesn’t know what he is doing and too many people think is x amount is good, then xx amount is better. 

[Rosie_0801]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

Will someone please link me to the Social Group where the name of the substance has been shared?

K thx bie 

thru PM, please

Calm down please. This thread isn't about you.

[Rosie_0801]

I think, with the settlement from the company, I would want those who did the spraying to complete a master gardener course. 

[itsheresomewhere]

4 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think, with the settlement from the company, I would want those who did the spraying to complete a master gardener course. 

I had around the same thought but it is unlikely they would do that.  Along with a class on reading the address and what not to do if unsure of the address.  Two of the landscapers that came out today told me they have recently done properties that had the same thing happen.  One was extremely helpful on giving me the steps that person did to make them fix with they did.  At the same time, it is scary that these is a more common mistake than I thought. 
 

Thank you to all who have been so wonderful with this. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by itsheresomewhere

[fairfarmhand]

3 hours ago, pinball said:

 There are many things done on farms/ in about that are not done in residential areas…

 

Actually it’s all generally the same stuff. On a smaller scale but still the same stuff.

[Acadie]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:51 PM, kbutton said:

I don't know what homeowner's insurance would potentially cover, but if this kind of loss is covered, I would ask if your insurance would sue the lawncare company for you. 

I'm so sorry this happened. 

Have you contacted your homeowner's insurance or a lawyer? Homeowner's might be an easy place to start. The landscaping company certainly has access to lawyers through their insurance, and their sole purpose is to minimize compensation to you.

I have no experience in this area but wonder if compensation should be in the tens of thousands, not thousands. Consulting a lawyer is really the only way to know what compensation should look like. The time and stress it takes matter, in addition to materials and labor.

And if you run into any complications with growing plants in the new soil or any question of health issues it would be a mistake to settle too early, and for too little. A lawyer can help you understand the timeframe and steps to protect yourself, and either advise you or take over communication with the landscaping co.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Acadie

[Shelydon]

That is just awful. I would be so upset. 

[Harriet Vane]

3 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

Politely, it is not trolling to ask once or maybe twice. But the OP has already declined to give that information at this time — you responded to that post, so you know that already — and while you can *want to know*, it does not mean you *need to know* or are *entitled to know.*

If you asking because you sincerely want to know out of concern for yourself or others, you still don’t need to know at this point after the OP declined, and could probably research further for information about common chemicals used to this purpose; that would probably suit your concern better, anyway. And if there’s any other reason for asking, it still does not entitle you to know, and asking further would be at best rude and probably, yes, trolling. 

Well said. Especially the bolded. 

[itsheresomewhere]

11 minutes ago, Acadie said:

I'm so sorry this happened. 

Have you contacted your homeowner's insurance or a lawyer? Homeowner's might be an easy place to start. The landscaping company certainly has access to lawyers through their insurance, and their sole purpose is to minimize compensation to you.

I have no experience in this area but wonder if compensation should be in the tens of thousands, not thousands. Consulting a lawyer is really the only way to know what compensation should look like. The time and stress it takes matter, in addition to materials and labor.

And if you run into any complications with growing plants in the new soil or any question of health issues it would be a mistake to settle too early, and for too little. A lawyer can help you understand the timeframe and steps to protect yourself, and either advise you or take over communication with the landscaping co.

I did contact our homeowners and it does not cover this.  We are definitely above 10k and still adding up.  

Edited March 3, 2023 by itsheresomewhere

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I did contact our homeowners and it does not cover this.  We are definitely above 10k and still adding up.  

Holy cow!

[Laura Corin]

I'm so sorry. I would be in pieces if that happened. 

[Acadie]

13 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I did contact our homeowners and it does not cover this.  We are definitely above 10k and still adding up.  

Do they have a legal team you could talk with, to ask about next steps and important considerations for you as you proceed? Or I wonder if lawyers in this area of law offer free consults, the way many do for personal injury and family law. @Quill, do you know anything about this?

After a car accident I initially thought that I could handle things myself, and that would mean more settlement funds with no payment to a lawyer. But what I learned was that lawyers have the expertise to know what is a fair settlement, and how to communicate with the other side both to maximize the settlement and minimize the opposing lawyers' ability to find reasons not to compensate you properly.

Basically if you have a good case and a good lawyer, you end up with much better compensation than going it alone. There are crappy lawyers who exploit people, but by checking reviews and asking local friends for a recommendation you should be able to find someone who will give you an expert advice on whether you need a lawyer and how to proceed. 

I mean, when will new plants start fruiting? How do you calculate what may be years of lost food for your family and income? 

[Jean in Newcastle]

13 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I did contact our homeowners and it does not cover this.  We are definitely above 10k and still adding up.  

My understanding is that a figure that high takes it out of small claims court. 

[itsheresomewhere]

2 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Do they have a legal team you could talk with, to ask about next steps and important considerations for you as you proceed? Or I wonder if lawyers in this area of law offer free consults, the way many do for personal injury and family law. @Quill, do you know anything about this?

After a car accident I initially thought that I could handle things myself, and that would mean more settlement funds with no payment to a lawyer. But what I learned was that lawyers have the expertise to know what is a fair settlement, and how to communicate with the other side both to maximize the settlement and minimize the opposing lawyers' ability to find reasons not to compensate you properly.

Basically if you have a good case and a good lawyer, you end up with much better compensation than going it alone. There are crappy lawyers who exploit people, but by checking reviews and asking local friends for a recommendation you should be able to find someone who will give you an expert advice on whether you need a lawyer and how to proceed. 

I mean, when will new plants start fruiting? How do you calculate what may be years of lost food for your family and income? 

They only suggested going through the company’s insurance.  I have been looking at lawyers but so far none that does free consultations for this.  If it comes down to it, I will consider paying for a consultation but that is not cheap.  I am fortunate that I have a couple of aces up my sleeve to deal with this so hopefully we don’t have to use a lawyer.  This is one case of being a bit ocd with my plants receipts will be beneficial.  
 

That is what I am trying to figure out how much in cost for food alone in this year/next besides the plants.  
 

The company did come out today.  They seem to be willing to work out this ourselves.  I am not afraid to take it higher if need but I hope this doesn’t need to be that way. 
 

[itsheresomewhere]

Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

My understanding is that a figure that high takes it out of small claims court. 

It does. 

[itsheresomewhere]

I thought you all might like this-  I asked the company why safeguards they have in place to prevent this.  They answered they do. I asked what it was and the answer was the person calls the account to confirm the address.  The guy didn’t even do that. If he had just made that phone call. 
 

The house they were supposed to go to is a one story not on a corner.  I am a two story on a corner.  The neighbor they were going to has confirmed no call was ever made as they would have told them they had even canceled the service. 

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

The company did come out today.  They seem to be willing to work out this ourselves.  I am not afraid to take it higher if need but I hope this doesn’t need to be that way. 
 

I hope I'm not being a pain because you have so much to deal with and  you're doing phenomenally with all of it. I'll quit after this in case my posts are only adding to the hassles for you.  

I just think it's not about the landscaper's willingness to work it out. OF COURSE they want to work it out with you, with no legal representation on your side, because they will end up paying less. 

If they didn't follow their own safety protocols and also didn't follow manufacturer recommendations on the appropriate amount to spray both are actually huge deals, and important info to give your own lawyer. 

I live in Ohio and the fact that the railroad responsible for the train derailment and toxic spill was involved in testing etc makes me livid. No wonder they found zero issues with the air and water! I'm paraphrasing here and open to correction if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that railroad personnel actually identified issues a few miles before the derailment. But they did not stop the train for repairs because it wasn't legally required, and it wasn't required because railroads had successfully lobbied for decreased regulations. 

We just have to hold accountable the corporations, manufacturers and small businesses who are contaminating our soil, air and waterways--not to mention our and our children's bodies. When polluters control testing, remediation and compensation, it is entirely in their interest to minimize and deny, and not to do right by the human beings and environments impacted by their negligence.

Another landscaping company said they've seen this happen multiple times before? What the heck is going on? Landscapers in your area are casually and repeatedly broadcast spraying chemicals like this on random properties? And other families, who I'm certain have far less expertise than you, have had to deal with figuring out what to do about pesticides they didn't ask for killing their plants and contaminating their entire yards?

Before my accident I felt like being litigious was always a bad thing, and that being agreeable and not getting litigious was more virtuous or something.

Now I think that calling in appropriate legal support helps not only the individual, but really can prevent others from experiencing similar harm. The company who did this--and probably other companies in your area since this is not an isolated incident--need to feel consequences to their bottom line serious enough to make them put genuine safeguards in place and stick to them every time. 

ETA: A consult that costs a few hundred bucks probably would be worth it because it may give you a better idea of appropriate compensation and good strategies, even if you just use the advice to handle things yourself. And sometimes just a letter from a lawyer threatening action is enough to shift things dramatically. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Acadie

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Acadie said:

Do they have a legal team you could talk with, to ask about next steps and important considerations for you as you proceed? Or I wonder if lawyers in this area of law offer free consults, the way many do for personal injury and family law. @Quill, do you know anything about this?

After a car accident I initially thought that I could handle things myself, and that would mean more settlement funds with no payment to a lawyer. But what I learned was that lawyers have the expertise to know what is a fair settlement, and how to communicate with the other side both to maximize the settlement and minimize the opposing lawyers' ability to find reasons not to compensate you properly.

Basically if you have a good case and a good lawyer, you end up with much better compensation than going it alone. There are crappy lawyers who exploit people, but by checking reviews and asking local friends for a recommendation you should be able to find someone who will give you an expert advice on whether you need a lawyer and how to proceed. 

I mean, when will new plants start fruiting? How do you calculate what may be years of lost food for your family and income? 

It sounds like @itsheresomewhere had this handled and will go above if necessary, so I don’t have further advice to her. 
 

But just for anyone reading along and wondering: There probably are lawyers who would consult for free in a matter like this but I also would not let paying for an hour or two stop me. IMO, that is often how you get an in-demand, much better lawyer. If they are hungry, of course they offer free consults but if they have a docket-load of really worthwhile cases, they aren’t interested in potentially wasting time on free consults. 
 

Also: as someone whose job it was to block silly cases, I would recommend framing this in professional language and talk immediately about thousands of dollars in rare plants, food plants and lost income. I would do every possible thing to impress upon whomever takes the call that the company’s gross negligence caused many thousands of dollars damage and very significant loss of labor product, as well as potentially contaminating your soil. 
 

But in general, I do agree with @Acadie that for many matters, I would rather have a lawyer working my case than to DIY it, even though I think I have adequate knowledge in some cases to DIY it. Insurance companies DO absolutely sometimes try to screw people who are not represented; I have seen it happen numerous times. 

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, Acadie said:

Do they have a legal team you could talk with, to ask about next steps and important considerations for you as you proceed? Or I wonder if lawyers in this area of law offer free consults, the way many do for personal injury and family law. @Quill, do you know anything about this?

After a car accident I initially thought that I could handle things myself, and that would mean more settlement funds with no payment to a lawyer. But what I learned was that lawyers have the expertise to know what is a fair settlement, and how to communicate with the other side both to maximize the settlement and minimize the opposing lawyers' ability to find reasons not to compensate you properly.

Basically if you have a good case and a good lawyer, you end up with much better compensation than going it alone. There are crappy lawyers who exploit people, but by checking reviews and asking local friends for a recommendation you should be able to find someone who will give you an expert advice on whether you need a lawyer and how to proceed. 

I mean, when will new plants start fruiting? How do you calculate what may be years of lost food for your family and income? 

 

2 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

They only suggested going through the company’s insurance.  I have been looking at lawyers but so far none that does free consultations for this.  If it comes down to it, I will consider paying for a consultation but that is not cheap.  I am fortunate that I have a couple of aces up my sleeve to deal with this so hopefully we don’t have to use a lawyer.  This is one case of being a bit ocd with my plants receipts will be beneficial.  
 

That is what I am trying to figure out how much in cost for food alone in this year/next besides the plants.  
 

The company did come out today.  They seem to be willing to work out this ourselves.  I am not afraid to take it higher if need but I hope this doesn’t need to be that way. 
 

Two thoughts. First, I’d think an environmental attorney would be who you’re looking for. 
 

Second, how’s your state department of conservation? Some are better than others, maybe they have some resources or personnel that could help. If you are a Master Gardener you probably do have contacts with your extension office as well (perhaps those are your “aces”).

[cjzimmer1]

16 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I did contact our homeowners and it does not cover this.  We are definitely above 10k and still adding up.  

I'll be honest that seems quite low to me for the extent of damage (of course you may be in a lower cost area than I so that may be affecting my perception) but I would expect that number just for cleanup, removal and soil and replacement and regrading with fresh soil (for the entire property of course!) forget the value of the plants, food/income loss, labor etc.

[itsheresomewhere]

1 hour ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I'll be honest that seems quite low to me for the extent of damage (of course you may be in a lower cost area than I so that may be affecting my perception) but I would expect that number just for cleanup, removal and soil and replacement and regrading with fresh soil (for the entire property of course!) forget the value of the plants, food/income loss, labor etc.

That number doesn’t include plants or food/income loss.  That is just to get the soil back to clean, grass and the labor for a company to do it.