Club Q And Violence to LGBTQ

[SHP]

And on Transgender Day of Remembrance no less. Are we so numb that this is barely a blip?

 

[KSera]

13 minutes ago, SHP said:

Are we so numb that this is barely a blip?

It's a lot more than a blip here 😪. 

[Harriet Vane]

I’m grief stricken and overwhelmed by the sheer number of mass shootings in this country. 

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, KSera said:

It's a lot more than a blip here 😪. 

I guess to say further, it’s been on my mind ever since I woke up this morning and saw it first thing, I just have no idea what to say anymore. This one is doubly hard for me because of who they seemed to be targeting. I couldn’t help but irrationally pray that my LGBT kid just wouldn’t see the news somehow. Which I know is irrational (and impossible) but they have so much fear about this anyway that I just want to protect them from it 😢. 
 

But I really don’t know what else to say about it. We have far too many people in this country who think this is a fair price to be paid (by other people’s kids, of course). 

[Farrar]

I went through a lot of emotions around it today. More than a blip for me, but part of my reaction is tempered by the fact that it feels like it's a blip for the nation on some level. 

I find the greatest contrast in the fact that marriage equality is likely to be enshrined in federal law (because screw you, Clarence Thomas) as this type of violence happens. I feel like we're so disconnected as a nation in how we approach queer issues. More trans deaths this year than any since the first year the government started tracking. More hate crimes. More legal threats than ever - especially around parenting LGBTQ+ kids or being an LGBTQ+ parent. But also so much more visibility, more kids who identify as queer, more queer characters in media, in politics, etc. Some of the violence is obviously a backlash to that. But a lot of it seems to be part of this growing divide.

I read some statistics that suggested that Colorado has a particular problem with stolen and illegally obtained firearms compared to other states, which I don't fully understand and maybe have misunderstood. But it seemed there were more illegal guns there than other states which could be part of the reason there have been a seemingly outsized number of high profile mass shootings there.

[SHP]

13 minutes ago, KSera said:

This one is doubly hard for me because of who they seemed to be targeting. 

 

This is where I am at. Not just at this level, but the micro aggressions towards the LGTBQ community as a whole. From refusing to use chosen pronouns to continued support of places and people that are vocal orbactive in spreading their hate. People who engage in these behaviors send the subtle signal that they approve or at least do not care enough to take steps withhold support. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, SHP said:

And on Transgender Day of Remembrance no less. Are we so numb that this is barely a blip?

 

Way way way more than a blip here. 

[TravelingChris]

Just awful!  I hadn't watched any news today and had hardly read anything in the news today either. 

Very sad event

[livetoread]

Add me to the list of those with a kid personally affecting by this. They cried when they came out to me about the fear they had regarding violence towards themselves. I find it hard to swallow and smile when my kid is being told they are so unwelcome, so aberrant, so distasteful, that children shouldn't even know people like them exist - that they must not even be talked about for fear of whatever. When you are so harmful to children that you must not be mentioned, it's not far to violence. I'm just sick to the bone about it as well as seething.

[1234]

It’s tough. My ds came out as trans not long before Pulse and we had just moved from FL after being there ten years. It’s tough to act like I’m not worried when he’s already been assaulted for being trans. He now has PTSD because of ignorant jerks.  It’s tough to act like those who push their trans hate agenda aren’t actively harming my child and others. It’s really tough to come from a place of love when so many are coming from a a place of ignorance, fear and hate. It just needs to stop. 

[Corraleno]

In addition to the grief and rage I feel over the shooting, there is utter contempt for the hypocritical !@#$%s who spew anti-LGBTQ rhetoric and glorify guns, then tweet their fake "thoughts & prayers" as if the blood of those victims isn't all over their own hands.

[whitestavern]

Link to evidence/reports saying this was a targeted attack against the LGBTQ community? I am unable to find anything. Similar assumptions were made with the Pulse shooting, which was not a targeted attack. Both are senseless and tragic, but I think it’s important to not jump to conclusions that this was a hate crime. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

COS is my hometown and I have friends who lost a friend in the shooting. My heart is broken.

[heartlikealion]

More than a blip to me, too. I saw an ad for the Trevor Project on my Facebook feed. I had not heard of that before. Glad to know it exists. 

Sat night a straight girlfriend of mine was going to a gay club to dance. I thought of tagging along but other friends told me there was an admission fee. 

I don’t know if people realize gay clubs are frequented by a variety of people (if this was meant as an attack on the LGBTQ community specifically). 

I hope we get more info. So far I haven’t seen anything other than suspected hate crime. So so sad. 

[Faith-manor]

9 hours ago, Corraleno said:

In addition to the grief and rage I feel over the shooting, there is utter contempt for the hypocritical !@#$%s who spew anti-LGBTQ rhetoric and glorify guns, then tweet their fake "thoughts & prayers" as if the blood of those victims isn't all over their own hands.

This. We have a trans family member. We are very rattled, and I cried this morning because I feel like this person is not safe anywhere in this country. I am advocating for them to move to Europe if possible.

 

[MercyA]

nm 

Edited November 21, 2022 by MercyA

[MEmama]

Not numb, it’s just too personal and painful to talk much about on this board right now. My heart hurts too much to be vulnerable to intolerance and excuses.
 

But thank you, OP, for bringing it up. I’ll be following, warily. 

[MercyA]

nm

Edited November 21, 2022 by MercyA

[Farrar]

The motives for the Pulse shooting have been disputed so it's still a contentious issue to some extent as to whether it was truly random. Even if he chose a "random" nightclub, it's hard for me to believe that even a last minute choice was actually the roll of a dice, especially by someone who was sympathetic to a movement that literally executes LGBTQ+ folks.

Regardless, I do find the finger wagging "you don't have a right to feel targeted right now because who knows why" hurtful in the wake of this event. The media has been pretty careful about it. More information will come out. Queer folks do feel targeted all the time. So getting told, oh, you're not really being victimized after this event is tacky. Just move on.

 

[Ting Tang]

I read we are up to 600 defined-as-mass-shootings this year.  That means 4+ victims, so that doesn't include the other shootings.  One headline gets lost to another.  I was still thinking about the football players.  😞 I'm certain I saw others after that one, and now this.  Can't keep up with all of them.  I avoid doing a lot of things or I otherwise am always thinking about what I'd do in an active shooter situation and pray for quick wits---and luck.  

 

[heartlikealion]

25 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The motives for the Pulse shooting have been disputed so it's still a contentious issue to some extent as to whether it was truly random. Even if he chose a "random" nightclub, it's hard for me to believe that even a last minute choice was actually the roll of a dice, especially by someone who was sympathetic to a movement that literally executes LGBTQ+ folks.

Regardless, I do find the finger wagging "you don't have a right to feel targeted right now because who knows why" hurtful in the wake of this event. The media has been pretty careful about it. More information will come out. Queer folks do feel targeted all the time. So getting told, oh, you're not really being victimized after this event is tacky. Just move on.

 

I get the comment. I don’t know if anyone in this thread is trying to say that (not even saying this thread is who you were addressing). I personally think it’s totally justified to conclude that, but I hesitate to say firmly. I have no problem with people thinking it. 

[KSera]

3 hours ago, whitestavern said:

Link to evidence/reports saying this was a targeted attack against the LGBTQ community? I am unable to find anything. Similar assumptions were made with the Pulse shooting, which was not a targeted attack. Both are senseless and tragic, but I think it’s important to not jump to conclusions that this was a hate crime. 

Really? Does it matter at this specific moment whether we know yet if the club was targeted for being lgbtq or if it just happened to kill people from that community? People who have been targets of violence just had someone come into their space and slaughter people. Whatever the motive, that feels personal. I think compassion is in order. The legal system will decide about the motivation, but it’s natural people would feel this way. You may not have meant it this way, but your comment feels very minimizing.

[Heartstrings]

When a shooting happens in a synagogue we assume Jews were the target until proven otherwise.  Same with a masque, or a historical AA church.  It’s safe to assume LGBTQ were targeted here until proven other wise.  Just because that one guy that one time possibly just stumbled into killing a bunch of traditionally marginalized people instead of purposefully targeting that community doesn’t change the reasonable assumption that a mass shooting of a marginalized group was probably a targeted attach.  
 

When you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras, even if that one time it was a zebra.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

I don’t know about a blip.  I’ve gotten New York Times push alerts, seen it on tik tock, Facebook and Twitter and it’s been on my news programs, it was on the NPR morning news podcast today.  I don’t watch TV news so I don’t know about that.  
 

I think we know that these things inspire copy cats and that really makes me torn on how we should cover them.  Part of me wants all the coverage, but part of me thinks mass killings need scant coverage, due to copy cats and the part that desiring notoriety plays in the these events happening at all.   It feels disrespectful or like society doesn’t care when coverage is minimal though.  I’m not sure what the right level of coverage is to balance all of that. 
 

It’s heartbreaking that these keep happening to the point of needing to try to game out how we should cover them. We know the next one is coming.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

I get the comment. I don’t know if anyone in this thread is trying to say that (not even saying this thread is who you were addressing). I personally think it’s totally justified to conclude that, but I hesitate to say firmly. I have no problem with people thinking it. 

I'm fine with conceding when something isn't what it initially appears. And I appreciate that the media has shown a lot of restraint around framing the suspect's motives. But someone did come into the thread pretty quickly to say, hey, no, you're not being victimized, don't assume this was targeted. And honestly, it does feel too raw to hear that assumption right now in the greater context of knowing that there's rising violence and less safety and greater legal threats against queer people. If it turns out the shooting was actually completely random, then sure. But that's not the most likely conclusion given the context in the world right now.

[Dmmetler]

The fact is, there are social media accounts which pass on information about LGBTQIA+ events to a conservative audience. In my city, that led to the Proud Boys showing up at a local museum that had a LGBTQIA+ history display and had planned a fundraising event for that night. Multiple such events have been targeted, and had threats called in. And a few have become violent. If this was just a coincidence, it was one that matched a very, very terrifying pattern.
 

I am another who has family affected by this directly. It terrifies me, because they're young adults who want to be able to go out, spend time with their friends, dance and have fun. My first thought when I heard the reports was how easily it could have been one of them there, and the next time, it might be. And Colorado is generally thought of as a safe, accepting state. 

 

 

 

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

The fact is, there are social media accounts which pass on information about LGBTQIA+ events to a conservative audience. In my city, that led to the Proud Boys showing up at a local museum that had a LGBTQIA+ history display and had planned a fundraising event for that night. Multiple such events have been targeted, and had threats called in. And a few have become violent. If this was just a coincidence, it was one that matched a very, very terrifying pattern.

There are hundreds of bars and nightclubs in Colorado Springs, but there are only TWO gay nightclubs in a city with a population of around half a million. Club Q was known for drag shows, and was hosting one on the night of the shooting. I think the chances that a heavily armed shooter wearing tactical gear just randomly decided to shoot up the ONE place in the city that was hosting a drag show that night seem really slim.

 

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

And Colorado is generally thought of as a safe, accepting state.

Colorado Springs îs very very conservative, and El Paso County declared themselves a "Second Amendment Sanctuary" in response to exactly the same "red flag laws" that people are now claiming should have been used to take weapons away from the shooter when he was arrested for bomb threats last year. Instead of taking his weapons, they dropped the charges.

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Corraleno

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

The motives for the Pulse shooting have been disputed so it's still a contentious issue to some extent as to whether it was truly random. Even if he chose a "random" nightclub, it's hard for me to believe that even a last minute choice was actually the roll of a dice, especially by someone who was sympathetic to a movement that literally executes LGBTQ+ folks.

And the shooter has a vested interest in claiming it was a totally random coincidence, because hate crimes usually carry additional penalties.

[Spryte]

https://apnews.com/article/shootings-colorado-gun-politics-springs-7f079c7feebc32cc8ad46f2724844c18
 

He’s being charged with hate crimes, though the none of the charges have been filed in court yet. From linked article:

“The man suspected of opening fire at a gay nightclub in Colorado Springs was being held on murder and hate crimes charges Monday, two days after the attack that killed five people and wounded many others.

Online court records showed that Anderson Lee Aldrich, 22, faced five murder charges and five charges of committing a bias-motivated crime causing bodily injury in Saturday night’s attack at Club Q.

The charges were preliminary, and prosecutors had not filed them in court. The hate crime charges would require proving that the gunman was motivated by bias, such as against the victims’ actual or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity.”

Edited November 21, 2022 by Spryte
No idea why the font changes in the middle of the quote, and can’t seem to fix it on my phone. Not intentional.

[Melissa Louise]

The saddest thing about this is that there was a clear warning, with the shooter - yet again - being known to police for domestic violence (held and threatened to bomb his mother). 

In a country where dead kindergarteners made it very clear nothing will change re guns, taking DV seriously and stopping these violent, disturbed men from from being able to go about their business (unless 100% rehabilitated) seems like it would be a good idea. 

The tragedy is 5 people would be alive right now if this very clear warning sign was taken seriously. 

In the meantime, global news showed me yet another 5 dead people in a shooting in the US (minimal coverage b/c murder-suicide - man takes out girlfriend and others), and honestly, to outsiders, it is a blip. You have a lot of shootings. 

Gay people are still targeted and thought of as lesser by many (case in point, everyone tuned in to the World Cup rn - apparently gays aren't worth a boycott) so it would not surprise me if this attack was targeted, though it would not surprise me if it wasn't either. 

Violence is abhorrent, and no-one should ever be targeted due to a particular or perceived characteristic - sexuality, gender identity, race, ethnicity, religion or sex. 

Gay and trans people deserve the same freedom from violence as straight and non-trans people do.

  It doesn't seem as if anyone in your country has freedom from gun violence. 

I have a lesbian kid and a kid who identifies as queer, and no, we don't have to worry about events like this. 

Because we don't have to worry about the guns. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

The shooter is the grandson of Randy Voepel, a rather outspoken politician. I don’t want to go beyond the board rules, but do your own googling, iykwim. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2022-11-20/accused-colorado-nightclub-gunman-grandson-of-longtime-east-county-politician?_amp

In addition, the shooter was raised Mormon, and there have been a number of speeches by religious leaders including Jeffrey R. Holland’s “musket fire” speech combined with a culture with teachings equating sexual sin with murder…. it’s not a leap to say the shooter was steeped in a lot of teachings saying queer = evil. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[KSera]

17 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

case in point, everyone tuned in to the World Cup rn - apparently gays aren't worth a boycott

The same thing struck me this morning. With the timing of this shooting, for a game to be more important to people than standing up for people and standing in solitary with them it’s hard to wrap my brain around. I’ve seen lots and lots of statements of support, but it comes down to “but the game, they might be disqualified.”
 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, KSera said:

The same thing struck me this morning. With the timing of this shooting, for a game to be more important to people than standing up for people and standing in solitary with them it’s hard to wrap my brain around. I’ve seen lots and lots of statements of support, but it comes down to “but the game, they might be disqualified.”
 

Yes, the England team were going to wear One Love armbands, which you'd think would be the minimum they could do when agreeing to play in Qatar and they have backed down because there might be a consequence. LGBT, women, migrant workers - all worth less than a game. 

Following these thoughts further takes the thread off topic, so leaving the hypocrisy there. 

Just hearing about the two bartenders who died 🙁 

 

 

[whitestavern]

3 hours ago, KSera said:

Really? Does it matter at this specific moment whether we know yet if the club was targeted for being lgbtq or if it just happened to kill people from that community? People who have been targets of violence just had someone come into their space and slaughter people. Whatever the motive, that feels personal. I think compassion is in order. The legal system will decide about the motivation, but it’s natural people would feel this way. You may not have meant it this way, but your comment feels very minimizing.

I am completely empathetic. What happened is horrible. And I’m sorry if it came across as minimizing. I have many many friends in the LGBTQ community. But truth is important and facts matters to me. That was all. Since he has now been charged with a hate crime it appears this was a targeted attack, tragically. 

[MercyA]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

So getting told, oh, you're not really being victimized after this event is tacky. Just move on.

I'm sorry; that was not my intent. I'll delete my comments. That said, I'm not moving on because I'm learning a lot. 

[MercyA]

You all make good points and I am open to hearing them.

Edited November 21, 2022 by MercyA

[prairiewindmomma]

18 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I am completely empathetic. What happened is horrible. And I’m sorry if it came across as minimizing. I have many many friends in the LGBTQ community. But truth is important and facts matters to me. That was all. Since he has now been charged with a hate crime it appears this was a targeted attack, tragically. 

Regardless of the shooter's motivation, one of the few safe spaces for people in that community---where they can truly express who they are--was invaded.  People who look and act outside of heteronormativity are judged all of the time for who they are and who they love.  If you truly have many, many friends in the LGBTQ community---are you out and about with them when they get the heckles and the nasty looks? Do you get any sense of the $h!t they have to go through? It was a night meant to celebrate their identity and someone came in and killed them/their friends.

I really don't get the sense that this resonates emotionally with you the same way that it does as it does for our queer boardies or those of us who can see our child(ren) in the club goers.  This hits a deep seated fear for a lot of us---that we or our loved ones aren't safe in a world that is increasingly vocal in their hatred and increasingly willing to act upon it.  

That a pp called your words "minimizing" is a very kind interpretation. That you doubled back on this saying that you "know people" but truth is important just kind of really nailed down that you really are that insensitive about this.  I'm not trying to be a jerk in pointing this out so explicitly, but I am hoping that you will take an opportunity to sit back and really reflect on how your words come across.

[MercyA]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

You may not have meant it this way, but your comment feels very minimizing.

I understand, after reading the posts here, why these types of comments can feel unwelcome/tacky/minimizing in this particular thread.

However, generally speaking, we do fact check each other on this board. I remember when I first started posting ten years and made what was probably a very stupid comment. (I've since changed my views on that topic). Immediately people asked for sources, and have continued asking for sources over the years. I've learned a lot and the fact checking is one of the reasons I do trust what I read here.

Maybe there is a time and a place and this thread is not it.

16 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I really don't get the sense that this resonates emotionally with you the same way that it does as it does for our queer boardies or those of us who can see our child(ren) in the club goers.  This hits a deep seated fear for a lot of us---that we or our loved ones aren't safe in a world that is increasingly vocal in their hatred and increasingly willing to act upon it.  

I can't speak for whitestavern, but I think this is just human nature. I mean, I abhor racism. It makes me very angry. But I know without a shadow of a doubt that I cannot begin to feel what minority people feel about the injustice in this country.

I don't think we need to have the same emotional connection as others to engage with a topic, if we are respectful. 

I'm very sorry that anyone needs to feel afraid right now. 😞  

Edited November 21, 2022 by MercyA

[Spryte]

12 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Regardless of the shooter's motivation, one of the few safe spaces for people in that community---where they can truly express who they are--was invaded.  People who look and act outside of heteronormativity are judged all of the time for who they are and who they love.  If you truly have many, many friends in the LGBTQ community---are you out and about with them when they get the heckles and the nasty looks? Do you get any sense of the $h!t they have to go through? It was a night meant to celebrate their identity and someone came in and killed them/their friends.

I really don't get the sense that this resonates emotionally with you the same way that it does as it does for our queer boardies or those of us who can see our child(ren) in the club goers.  This hits a deep seated fear for a lot of us---that we or our loved ones aren't safe in a world that is increasingly vocal in their hatred and increasingly willing to act upon it.  

That a pp called your words "minimizing" is a very kind interpretation. That you doubled back on this saying that you "know people" but truth is important just kind of really nailed down that you really are that insensitive about this.  I'm not trying to be a jerk in pointing this out so explicitly, but I am hoping that you will take an opportunity to sit back and really reflect on how your words come across.

The bolded. Yes.

There really seems to be No Safe Space.

Club Q *was* the safe space in that area, the place we might encourage our adult LGBTQ kids to go and have fun and be safe, the place of refuge and acceptance. But it wasn’t, not that night. My heart is broken. And that’s really all I will say here.
 

 

[Melissa Louise]

20 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I understand, after reading the posts here, why these types of comments can feel unwelcome/tacky/minimizing in this particular thread.

However, generally speaking, we do fact check each other on this board. I remember when I first started posting ten years and made what was probably a very stupid comment. (I've since changed my views on that topic). Immediately people asked for sources, and have continued asking for sources over the years. I've learned a lot and the fact checking is one of the reasons I do trust what I read here.

Maybe there is a time and a place and this thread is not it.

I can't speak for whitestavern, but I think this is just human nature. I mean, I abhor racism. It makes me very angry. But I know without a shadow of a doubt that I cannot begin to feel what minority people feel about the injustice in this country.

I don't think we need to have the same emotional connection as others to engage with a topic, if we are respectful. 

I'm very sorry that anyone needs to feel afraid right now. 😞

Time and place, I think. 

Stats etc are not comforting to people in the immediate aftermath of an event like this. 

s/o thread at least, probably just letting this thread be for people having their feelings. 

I had my own reaction to some of the comments on this thread but - time and place. It is a terrible thing that happened, it happened to a particular demographic in this instance, and this thread is a reaction to the instance. Not a place for 'but', even if we have a 'but'. 

[Farrar]

31 minutes ago, MercyA said:

However, generally speaking, we do fact check each other on this board. I remember when I first started posting ten years and made what was probably a very stupid comment. (I've since changed my views on that topic). Immediately people asked for sources, and have continued asking for sources over the years. I've learned a lot and the fact checking is one of the reasons I do trust what I read here.

I actually really appreciate that we all fact check each other and that there's a culture of accepting the check by most longtime boardies. It's more that this particular check wasn't in response to anything. 

In other thoughts, I'm feeling grateful today for the bar patrons who knocked the guy out with his own gun and risked their lives to subdue him.

[Corraleno]

22 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm feeling grateful today for the bar patrons who knocked the guy out with his own gun and risked their lives to subdue him.

I've seen a lot of posts and tweets today pointing out the contrast between two unarmed gay guys risking their lives to take down an active shooter in minutes, versus the 376 fully armed cops who stood around for more than an hour while school children bled to death.

[KSera]

52 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Time and place, I think. 

Stats etc are not comforting to people in the immediate aftermath of an event like this. 

s/o thread at least, probably just letting this thread be for people having their feelings. 

I had my own reaction to some of the comments on this thread but - time and place. It is a terrible thing that happened, it happened to a particular demographic in this instance, and this thread is a reaction to the instance. Not a place for 'but', even if we have a 'but'. 

QFT. Exactly my thoughts and was thinking how to say.

5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I've seen a lot of posts and tweets today pointing out the contrast between two unarmed gay guys risking their lives to take down an active shooter in minutes, versus the 376 fully armed cops who stood around for more than an hour while school children bled to death.

I haven't been online enough today to have seen that yet, but wow is that a powerful contrast.

[Farrar]

11 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I've seen a lot of posts and tweets today pointing out the contrast between two unarmed gay guys risking their lives to take down an active shooter in minutes, versus the 376 fully armed cops who stood around for more than an hour while school children bled to death.

It immediately occurred to me as well.

I think our whole response to active shooters may be changing. I think we've already started to see more of this and we'll only see more in the future. On the one hand, it's like, okay, good. We've all figured out you can negotiate with these shooters, you can't wait for the police or trust them to do anything, you can't wait and the only way to save more lives is to act faster. On the other hand, good lord. Like, this is where we're at in terms of response. The hope that random heroes will risk their lives to do something when they have to. And the awareness that it could be anyone and that it's something we've just decided to live with.

[livetoread]

3 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The shooter is the grandson of Randy Voepel, a rather outspoken politician. I don’t want to go beyond the board rules, but do your own googling, iykwim.

Not going to touch the politics there, but it does help to explain why such serious previous charges were dropped and his record sealed.

[hshibley]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

I've seen a lot of posts and tweets today pointing out the contrast between two unarmed gay guys risking their lives to take down an active shooter in minutes, versus the 376 fully armed cops who stood around for more than an hour while school children bled to death.

If you read online accounts he was beaten to the point where the police weren’t sure if he was alive by the exmilitary person there as well as a drag performer. This is what happens when you feel kinship to the people in danger. 
 

Also as a side note to point out how this bar was a source of community. Colorado Springs is the home base for focus on the family. There was an interesting piece on npr today talking about being gay in the town that’s home to focus on the family. 

[Sneezyone]

17 minutes ago, hshibley said:

If you read online accounts he was beaten to the point where the police weren’t sure if he was alive by the exmilitary person there as well as a drag performer. This is what happens when you feel kinship to the people in danger. 
 

Also as a side note to point out how this bar was a source of community. Colorado Springs is the home base for focus on the family. There was an interesting piece on npr today talking about being gay in the town that’s home to focus on the family. 

Also the Air Force Academy. There is/has been overlap.

[Lady Florida.]

53 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Also the Air Force Academy. There is/has been overlap.

I read somewhere that it was also a place where the queer AFA kids could go and not be afraid to be themselves. Overlap in that way too. 

[Ting Tang]

So, the suspect was able to purchase a gun despite a bomb threat arrest?  I didn't even bother to read the article.  It's the same old, same old. 

 

[TarynB]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:12 AM, Ting Tang said:

So, the suspect was able to purchase a gun despite a bomb threat arrest?  I didn't even bother to read the article.  It's the same old, same old. 

 

Edited to remove info that now seems unfounded

Edited November 25, 2022 by TarynB