Stretched too thin with homeschooling.

[Ting Tang]

This year, I added my 4th child into our homeschool. He is in Kindergarten, and of course, the other children's workloads are increasing as well as they move up grade levels.  We just started two weeks ago, and I am finding it very difficult to get through their daily workloads in one day.  I am feeling very stressed out.  None of them are very independent and need assistance.  At some point, I just wonder if it is really going to be possible to provide a good education at home.  I don't know if I am looking for advice or just venting, but I also have the problem of getting no help inside the home.   My son was in tears over his math yesterday.  Maybe it was a mistake to switch him to Singapore math, I am not sure, or maybe nothing really sank in these last two years at home.  I do not care for our public school.  I honestly do not know how people do it, unless their children are teaching themselves certain subjects.  

[Dianthus]

I hate Singapore.

I think you need to make it a little easier. What's your full plan this year? I recall you were MP last year.

[wendyroo]

Our last year of homeschooling all of my kiddos was when they were K, 2nd, 4th, and 6th. They are all 2e kids who require near constant supervision.

The biggest difference I sense between what I did with my kids and what I have read about in your posts is the amount of required output. My kids did a lot of math, and quite a bit of writing, but almost no output for the content subjects. No worksheets, study guides, vocab activities, etc. Science, history and Spanish were entirely input + discussion + occasional hands-on activities. And that input was either listened to/watched by the whole group, or by all the elementary students while the oldest read his own input.

[Ting Tang]

5 minutes ago, Dianthus said:

I hate Singapore.

I think you need to make it a little easier. What's your full plan this year? I recall you were MP last year.

I'm seriously considering CLE 5th grade math for my oldest.  My middle kids seem to be doing alright with the Singapore Dimensions, but the workload is quite heavy.

We did do a lot of MP last year, but now only my 2nd grader is doing a little bit of it.  She is using it for enrichment, literature, and spelling.  She has handwriting she can do independently, but the rest has to be with me.  And the math she needs a lot of my help with, too--Singapore Dimensions 2A.

My 4th grader is doing Rod and Staff spelling and handwriting.  AAR Level 3.  Singapore Dimensions 4A.  MP Geography I.  TGTB science. Was hoping to get to more Latin, but seems impossible.

The 5th grader is doing MCT language arts, Rod and Staff spelling, Geography I, TGTB science.  Singapore Primary 6 Standards.

I think I covered it all.  The issue is with independent activities, they cannot be independent. My 4th grader is a struggling reader yet, so he needs my help, too.  

I feel like we could spend all day just doing three kids' math lessons.

[Ting Tang]

13 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

Our last year of homeschooling all of my kiddos was when they were K, 2nd, 4th, and 6th. They are all 2e kids who require near constant supervision.

The biggest difference I sense between what I did with my kids and what I have read about in your posts is the amount of required output. My kids did a lot of math, and quite a bit of writing, but almost no output for the content subjects. No worksheets, study guides, vocab activities, etc. Science, history and Spanish were entirely input + discussion + occasional hands-on activities. And that input was either listened to/watched by the whole group, or by all the elementary students while the oldest read his own input.

I feel like they are all at different levels, but I did cut back on subjects this year.  I feel like mine all need me there 100% just as a student would have in a real school. 😞 So I don't want to do them a disservice.  Or we could do school for a very long time, but the house is already a mess, lol.

[wendyroo]

Things I do that help me fit it all in:

- I have the kids do a lot of the chores. I spend a lot of the day teaching, but each individual child does not spend that much time doing school. So I have no problem insisting they each spend 15-30 minutes (depending on age) doing chores each day. Over the course of the week, that keeps the tables, floors, bathrooms, kids' bedrooms, and lots of laundry clean. It means breakfast is made each day, the pets (lizards) are tended to, the van is cleaned, etc. Obviously there are plenty of chores left for me to do, but the place doesn't fall apart nearly as quickly.

- I read aloud to all the kids for about 2 hours a day which covers A LOT of their subjects. Just spending that time means science, social studies, a big hunk of Spanish, poetry, literature, current events, and a ton more are done. It is like a morning basket, but spend throughout the day (mostly during meals).

- I multitask. I can easily help 2 kids with math at a time, or I can oversee all 4 kids math if they are doing independent work around the table and I just need to troubleshoot and chek their work. I can give spelling words/sentences while listening to a little one read to me...or have the little one read the spelling words/sentences to really do double duty. I can help organize a writing assignment while I make lunch, or listen to a big kid read MCT grammar to the youngers while I fold laundry.

- I increase subject difficulty to each child's level, but I keep the duration of subjects short. Since we school a little bit pretty much every day, year round, that means that even when my 5th grader was doing algebra, he only needed to work for ~30 minutes a day. My K'ers only do math for about 15 minutes. So even if I was to work on math 1-on-1 with each of them (which I don't), it would still only take me less than 2 hours a day.

- I always schedule a least a few subjects that each child can do independently: typing, copy work, Duolingo, Anki, etc. They may need to physically be near me to stay on task, but they need to have a few subjects that they can do on their own.

[Dianthus]

I would do math, language arts and no more than 2 other things per child. Depending on your priorities, those other 2 things may be music, foreign language, geography, science, etc. And then I would do history as a group, SOTW style. I would recommend not doing science as a subject and just have kid friendly science library books (nat geo kids, DK, etc) available, with new ones monthly.

Seriously, make it easy and get your routine set. And have your kids do some chores if they don't. It's good for them, helps the routine and makes your life easier. Ds7 vacuums after breakfast, ds10 vacuums after lunch and dd13 vacuums after dinner.  That's my favorite help but they also have other chores they do every day, mostly cleaning up after themselves, and some every week. It's my goal to reorganize the chores so they are doing more and so they are checking off a more permanent list. Definitely include the kids to help with chores and it will help your day.

[Dianthus]

@wendyroo was thinking the same about chores.

[Clarita]

4 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I feel like mine all need me there 100% just as a student would have in a real school.

You know they wouldn't get that in a real school. I mean in real school a teacher would have 20-30 kids in a class. They are not giving as much attention to each/all their students as much as you are for your kids. They assign homework, independent work, assessment and busywork. That's why some kids fall through the cracks.

[2_girls_mommy]

2 hours ago, Clarita said:

You know they wouldn't get that in a real school. I mean in real school a teacher would have 20-30 kids in a class. They are not giving as much attention to each/all their students as much as you are for your kids. They assign homework, independent work, assessment and busywork. That's why some kids fall through the cracks.

I was thinking the same thing.

Yes, kids can teach themselves or at least work independently on some days in a subject that you explicitly teach other days.  For example... I do not do the full teaching lesson orally for the every skills subject every day.  I may spend a long time on math one day a week then the others, just open the book and work one or two of the first problems with kiddo and set them to work.  (and I only ever assign a couple of rows of math in the early grades.  I just want to practice daily and to make sure they understand.) I will spend one day a week going over the whole lesson that includes review of past concepts and intro of new, etc.  The same with other subjects.  I taught Latin in co-op for years (and will start again this year with my 3rd grader,) I teach the lesson on Friday at co-op then assign workbook pages and flashcard practice to do throughout the week on their own.  I check in with them, do their cards or whatever a little.  But I don't teach new info.  They practice the skills they learned at the co-op lesson throughout the week.  I model home subjects around that same model.   

And the last two times I had kindergarteners with older kids to teach, ( one a niece and one my last one,) I did not necessarily teach them their subjects every day.  Yes, I taught from a math curriculum, and yes, I taught explicit phonics.  I had other fun k units that I did occasionally too, or just folded them into the older kids' stuff by getting library books on their level for whatever the olders were learning and read all of the books from all levels during read aloud times,  But I didn't overly focus on K.  I had some little Rod and Staff preschool ABC workbooks for daily work.  We worked on the alphabet.  I had a handwriting book and handwriting without tears materials  But we didn't do that stuff everyday.  The little ABC workbooks could be done by the kids without much help while I was busy with the other kids.  Then reading books including books on number topics and playing games when possible could be enough with library classes, co-op classes, field trips and such to round out a great education.  We talked about letters in everyday ways in the bathtub and on the go and while playing outside to reinforce things we were working on in everyday life.  When my older kids were getting more independent, like maybe in January or February and they knew the routine of their curriculum and were working on papers or math, I could spend a little more time doing daily lessons.  One semester of K light, then jumping in for a few weeks of intense phonics/reading training was enough for my kers.  They didn't need a curriculum day in and day out to learn the basics.  Just a rich environment daily with meaningful things to do. 

[8filltheheart]

I've read your posts over the months and I have always thought that you chose options that in our home would be way too much work and soul-sucking.  Based on the descriptions you gave of your ds last yr, the fact that SM is not a fit is really not surprising to me.  I personally think that SM is not a good fit to jump into mid-stream for kids who are not confident in math and over complicates processes for kids with low tolerance its style of teaching.   Workbook educations like MP also consume a huge amt of time and require mom.  

FWIW, adding a Ker in our homeschool only adds about 30-45 mins.  It is the navigating the flow of all of the kids that requires flexibility.  But , mostly, it requires moving on from a school mentality.  Reading books, talking about them=a good elementary education.  It does not take textbooks or worksheets.  You could have your 5th grader reading through a stack of books for history and science independently and then have him tell you things that he learned while you are folding laundry, cleaning the kitchen, etc.  If there are specific things you want him to remember long term, assigning a writing assignment for those specific topics every week or so leads to long-term retention.

With 4 kids and the oldest being in 5th grade, school should really be done within around 5-6 hrs.  It does not need to take all day.  If SM is consuming your life, move on.  There are plenty of solid math programs out there without getting bogged down in bar diagrams.  There are plenty of incredibly strong math students who never saw a bar diagram in their math educations.  If you want to supplement with good word problems that are more algebraic, look at Hands On Equations Verbal Problems book.  Find a math program that makes your ds feel successful in learning.  Being confident is empowering. An overwhelmed 5th grader is really setting up for being convinced that they are bad at __________ (whatever overwhelms them).  Instilling confidence can take them way farther than any curriculum could ever hope to achieve. 

Most of all, having a mom who feels in control is vital.  Kids feed off of the emotions in their home.  If they sense turmoil, emotional stress, overwhelmed adults, their behaviors will reflect that.  Calm confident control can go a very long way in improved daily flow.

I would step back to the beginning.  I would have the older kids read independently in the morning while I spend 30-45 mins with the Ker.  Then I would work on math instruction with one of the older kids and while they do math work with another.  Rotate through them, etc.  But, having a lot of curriculum where they need you and can't complete on their own sets up time conflicts where no one can progress in what they need to do bc they need mom.  It stresses out mom bc she is being pulled in 100 directions.  Being able to read, watch a documentary, write an assignment while mom works with another student goes a long way making things work successfully.

[freesia]

I agree with everyone who has posted so I won’t repeat it other than to say that, when teaching four, I found I could have only one time consuming curriculum going. For us it was spelling. I always taught math, but used Horizons from 3-6 bc it was not overly involved for me. You don’t say if your science and history are together. If they aren’t, change that. Have a group time where you work on those subjects together. Then half an hour one on one with each child and, while you meet with each, the others do independent time—math pages, handwriting or copy work, reading book. After each half hour be available for questions from the other children. Have an activity they can do if they get completely stuck so that do not interrupt you except for bleeding. They are all old enough to be able to do that. Your older two may need another 15 minutes one on one with you. I covered spelling, math, writing and grammar or phonics in those sessions. 

Your Ker does not need all the bells and whistles. I felt guilty that my last was not getting the super creative projects my first kids got. She did get some fun things—library story time, co-op, but it wasn’t the same. Guess what? Once everyone got older, she ended up with far more of my time and got a far more creative and flexible late elementary school experience. It does even out. 

For chores—set two or three 5 minute clean ups. Set a timer and everyone cleans. Stop when the timer goes off. Also, everyone has daily and weekly chores. Set a time that everyone does their “Wednesday chores.” At your children’s ages, I would realize that a busy, creative homeschooling day often shows itself in a jumble of a house at the end of the day. If your dh is unhappy, you both need to realize that you aren’t a stay at home mom right now, you are working full time as a teacher. That paradigm shift will help you get into some good rhythms and feel less pressure. In a few years it will get easier to stay on top of things  

Lastly, the first month always can feel chaotic and overwhelming—even for me after 10 years of classroom teaching and 17 years of homeschooling. It takes a while to get in a rhythm. You may need to back up and build up more slowly. Did you start everything at once? Try to take a deep breath and let go a bit. 

[Ting Tang]

Thank you everyone! I’m in the car now, so it’s hard to type. I do feel like I cut out a lot, and maybe it’s just the math stressing me out now most of all. The mid kids seem to like it a lot, but my oldest cannot be in tears. He does seem to like the MCT language arts at least. We’ve barely gotten into other fringe subjects. I think they’re also going to have to help with chores. I just can’t do this for much longer. I’m trying to do chores while teach. 

[freesia]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you everyone! I’m in the car now, so it’s hard to type. I do feel like I cut out a lot, and maybe it’s just the math stressing me out now most of all. The mid kids seem to like it a lot, but my oldest cannot be in tears. He does seem to like the MCT language arts at least. We’ve barely gotten into other fringe subjects. I think they’re also going to have to help with chores. I just can’t do this for much longer. I’m trying to do chores while teach. 

So keep MCT, which is high teacher involvement, and drop Singapore. 

[Ting Tang]

13 minutes ago, freesia said:

So keep MCT, which is high teacher involvement, and drop Singapore. 

I think we will. It is teacher intense, but it’s more pleasant when he actually says he likes it, lol. 

[8filltheheart]

I'm trying to envision what is going on during the day in your home if only doing basics with 4 kids is taking all day.  Can you share what a day in your house looks like? 

FWIW, perhaps you need to have a schedule of what household things are getting done when.  For example, all laundry in the laundry room at night.  Throw a load in the washing machine as soon as you wake up.  Have the oldest unload the dishwasher while breakfast is being served.  Have the 2nd oldest responsible for loading in the breakfast dishes while counters are wiped, and everything put away.  While the kids are getting out their school things, switch loads of laundry.  Then when you sit down to work with them, there is no distraction and everyone is focused on doing school work. 

Have 30 min clean-ups where everyone has to contribute to picking things up and putting them away, vacuuming, sweeping,, etc.  Everyone works together.  It isn't deep cleaning.  It is clutter and dirt control.

 

 

[Brittany1116]

Can you drop geography for a bit, and maybe even handwriting unless they are truly in need of it? Or even cut to once a week. That seems a bit extra if you can't easily get math and LA done. The oldest one should definitely be doing atleast spelling solo.

[73349]

Don't judge your school (or anyone else's, even) by a rough week.

You don't have to go over everything they produce with a fine-toothed comb, and they don't have to be producing something every minute in order to learn. Outsourcing spelling (to readandspell.com) was not only the least teacher-intensive option for me, it worked the best.

We have a "morning chore" rotating list before school--maybe that would help? If the kindergartner is your youngest, you have a few people who can sweep the floor, switch the laundry, put away clean dishes, etc.

[Momto6inIN]

We sometimes keep subjects to a time limit instead of struggling (and failing) to complete a certain amount of work or a certain number of lessons each day. So we would spend 45 min on math, then stop and pick it back up the next day. Same with spelling, grammar, handwriting, etc. It's the consistency that is the key to progress, not the amount of work done.

You could also alternate days of geography and science. You don't have to do both every day.

I also have to say that when my kids were all little, housework took last priority. They can do some chores themselves, and I made cooking nutritious meals a priority, but whatever other household chores were left just didn't get done in a timely manner or possibly even at all. It's a season of life, and you will get past it at some point, I promise! 🙂

[prairiewindmomma]

Schooling 4 is very different than schooling 1-2. I've schooled 4, and everything else in life needed to be simplified in order to make it work because my two oldest were late to spin off to independence AND my youngest was very high energy/demand.

A few thoughts:

1. Your oldest is not old enough to be counting credits for a transcript, IIRC. Certainly with your younger aged kids there is no reason to be doing so many subjects separately. You need to combine age groups to do synergistic things.  Do you remember my suggestion of Mystery Science? You could easily pick topics so that everyone is doing science together. It is very low prep, and highly engaging.

2. There's no need to do geography separately with elementary aged children if you are in survival mode. Seriously.  You should be making sure everyone is getting language arts and math in, and some broad exposure to science and history---but again, look for opportunities to combine with science and history.  SOTW is an easy way to bring everyone in to history, and if you do the map work worksheets together, that would count as geography, fwiw.

3. Bring in read-aloud time.  Better yet, pick an audiobook (lots of free options on youtube), and use that time to fold laundry together, prep meals, etc.

4. Singapore math can do you in if you let it. It's not my favorite choice for everyone if they aren't independent and aren't math-gifted. (And, often, being math-gifted means they are independent.)  If it's not a good fit for a particular kid, CLE can be a good backup. I started switching kids to it when I added my 3rd and 4th kids to the mix. 

5. Embrace the instant pot and other low prep meal options.  Put chore time into the mix and call it "practical life skills" as a subject if that helps you embrace it. Homeschooling only works for everyone if it works for you also. It's ok to send a kid to school for the family life balance.  No one else can be your kids' mom.  Lots of people can be their teachers.

6. I get the sense that there is greater family disharmony going on.  Address that through evaluations, therapy, or whatever you need to do.  Honestly, mental health and happiness comes before academics, almost always.

[AnneGG]

Have you ever read Teaching from Rest by Sarah Mackenzie? Or Plan Your Year by Pam Barnhill? Are you familiar with the Smiling Homeschooler blog? 
 

Honestly, I would pause your homeschool and de stress. IMO you sound like you might be starting to burn out. If you are worried about academics, hook them up with some Outschool classes or online programs while you regroup. You could even let them start NaNoWriMo stuff early. Let them do the free trials of Generation Genius, Dream Box, Night Zoo Keeper, etc. While you guys are in de stress mode you can work on establishing a family rhythm to help ease your housework load. 
 

 

 

 

[keirin]

We seem to have similar age kids, so I thought I'd share our schedule. I always thought it was helpful to see other people's when I was getting started. Not that your day should look exactly like ours, but just what we do might help?

I have twin 11 year old 6th graders (July birthdays), a 7 year old 2nd grader, and a 4 year old Pre-K.

We are using:

6th graders -

Singapore Math Standards Edition 6A / 6B + resources (note: we've done Singapore and Beast Academy their whole academic careers)

Memoria Press 2nd Form Latin + Duolingo Latin - I signed them up for the self paced MPOA so they can take their self-graded quizzes and tests this year.

Center for Lit Elementary Literature class

School Specialty The Paragraph books with some Lantern English classes mixed in throughout the year

Science Mom Chemistry in the fall (no idea in the spring yet)

Evan Moor Daily Geography workbook

Typetastic for typing

Story of Civilization Ancients with additional materials from Investigating World History and Oxford Press the World in Ancient Times

I'll add in computer science discoveries from Code.Org and Advanced Scratch Programming from Johns Hopkins CTY eventually, but I've been adding a bit at a time tile we get up to speed. This week we added Latin.

 

2nd Grader -

All About Reading Level 2 (a lesson in the morning) + Memoria Press Storytime Treasures (time spend reading in the afternoon, use the teacher guide to highlight phonics and ask questions about the reading, NO writing)

Catholic Heritage Curricula 2nd grade handwriting book for handwriting

Evan Moor Daily Science + Mystery Science topics that jig jog + science books or shows that jig jog

Finishing Beast Academy Level 1 books and then starting Singapore Math 2A / 2B 

Story of Civilization Ancients (just listening to the audio and doing some additional activities / picture books as I have time)

NO spelling, NO grammar yet. His reading has really started to come along the last few months and I want to cement reading fluency before adding those. By the end of the year I will probably add Growing with Grammar (workbook, easy to do independently), and start All About Spelling 1

 

Pre-K

The Good and The Beautiful Kindergarten Prep

MEP reception

tag along science and history picture books or shows, nothing formal

 

And here is my one of my twins checklist that they use to keep on track during the week (note: this is a Google sheet I update weekly):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/190zhlg5oo_9oTuqkGeKe9mcwLYIfcjbT/view?usp=sharing

 

And here is my master homeschool planner that I put what I need to do with the kids on (note: also a Google sheet updated weekly):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c8PXAgpBIqq3u-_3RfNw1o9_llKBBtV_/view?usp=sharing

 

Chores my kids do:

Unload the dishwasher (twins take turns)

Clean their rooms (everyone)

Do their laundry (twins, my 7 year old is starting to learn)

Take out the trash (as needed)

Clean the bathrooms (on the weekends, we all split up and take a room on Saturday mornings)

Put their dishes in the sink or dishwasher when they are done

Make themselves (some) meals - older two

 

I hope that this helps give you an idea of what life with 4 looks like here. It isn't easy! I also work 3 jobs part time (ends up being about 25 hours a week) so it is a lot but I feel that this is the best decision for us as a family.

 

[ktgrok]

On 8/27/2022 at 4:22 PM, Ting Tang said:

I feel like they are all at different levels, but I did cut back on subjects this year.  I feel like mine all need me there 100% just as a student would have in a real school. 😞 So I don't want to do them a disservice.  Or we could do school for a very long time, but the house is already a mess, lol.

In school a teacher has to try to help 20-30 kids. There is NO one on one!

[ktgrok]

Drop TGTB science. it's pretty, but each lesson takes a long time. Or cut down to half a lesson twice a week. 

Instead, for social studies and science use documentaries!!!!! There is SO much educational on TV between Curiosity Stream and Prime and PBS that there is no reason to even stress about that. I swear a kid can learn everything they need to know in elementary science from Magic Schoolbus alone! 

Have family TV time before bed where you watch Rock the Park, Ocean Mysteries, Postcards from Buster, Carmen Sandiego, etc etc. 

Get math, language arts, etc done. 

Outsource. Is this a year that Teaching Textbooks or another online program would work for math for the 5th grader?

Is AAR working well for your struggling reader or do you need advice on something else? Is there dyslexia at play?

For K, honestly, you don't need much, and it doesn't need to be daily. Maybe do math one day, phonics the next, or something. School isn't "real" to me until 1st. 

[teachermom2834]

Just agreeing with everyone else that you can cut things back a lot. I never paid much attention to what was happening in the public schools because I never intended for my kids to enter brick and mortar schools. Well my 9th grader dd started school this year and is doing great even though she learned a lot informally. 

For example I don’t think we ever got to a formal US History course for her. She joined the Constitution Bowl team the first week of school. She told the teacher in charge she only knew what she learned from watching Liberty’s Kids and Hamilton and reading alot of books. She is doing great on the team and answering tons of questions. Lol.

I tried to teach her geography but I failed and she didn’t even know the states and I am embarrassed to say she needed a crash review of continents and oceans the first week of school. She is in AP Human Geography based of her placement test scores and has had to catch up on some basics quickly and she has. Because she knows how to learn and study and is interested and has been exposed to all kinds of things.

All that just to say everyone is right that you don’t need to explicitly cover this stuff with curriculum at these young ages. Read books. Listen to and watch quality programming. Discuss things and draw connections. Model valuing education and learning and working at things and taking an interest in the world and how it works. Schedule in the explicit math and language arts instruction and then let your lifestyle lead the rest of it. 
 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by teachermom2834

[Ting Tang]

I just got back into town and wanted to thank you all for your ideas and comments.  I was able to read them but not always comment on my tiny phone!  I think my worry is that so far we have only attempted the basics, and it was taking such a long time I didn't even get through them.  We just had the interruption of a vacation, but I already felt I needed one, lol.

I think I am going to start assigning chores to the kids.  My second oldest I feel does need to finish the AAR program.  He and my 2nd grader really like the new Singapore Dimensions, but the workload is huge, and I may cut back or see how they do with some of the videos.  My youngest is doing Abeka Kindergarten, but even that is far more sparse than what I did for my daughter when she used it.  We will basically be doing phonics/reading, math, and handwriting.  I do feel it helped me teach my daughter to read, so I will use it for him.  The oldest is going to do CLE for math.  Sorry if some of these topics have crossed!

 

[serendipitous journey]

On 8/27/2022 at 1:41 PM, wendyroo said:

- I read aloud to all the kids for about 2 hours a day which covers A LOT of their subjects. Just spending that time means science, social studies, a big hunk of Spanish, poetry, literature, current events, and a ton more are done. It is like a morning basket, but spend throughout the day (mostly during meals).

 

I've read before about your reading with your children, and I know it is a great investment.  My question is: when do YOU eat?  This is the problem I myself run into!  Do you just eat while you work with kids after the reading-meal?  or before?

[wendyroo]

50 minutes ago, serendipitous journey said:

I've read before about your reading with your children, and I know it is a great investment.  My question is: when do YOU eat?  This is the problem I myself run into!  Do you just eat while you work with kids after the reading-meal?  or before?

Normally I just eat before or after they do. If I'm making quesadillas for lunch, I can eat mine as I cook the rest. Or, if I make a salad I will just wait until they eat what they want, add the ingredients they don't like to whatever is left, and eat that while they take their after-lunch break.

Also, my kids take f.o.r.e.v.e.r to eat. So I can eat my dinner while they tell DH about their days, and then I can read a couple chapters while they finish eating.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, serendipitous journey said:

I've read before about your reading with your children, and I know it is a great investment.  My question is: when do YOU eat?  This is the problem I myself run into!  Do you just eat while you work with kids after the reading-meal?  or before?

I read while eating. I mean, I still chewed with my mouth closed!  But I might read a paragraph , take a bite or two, etc. It wasn’t a big deal. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Jean in Newcastle

[Elizabeth86]

On 8/27/2022 at 4:08 PM, wendyroo said:

Our last year of homeschooling all of my kiddos was when they were K, 2nd, 4th, and 6th. They are all 2e kids who require near constant supervision.

The biggest difference I sense between what I did with my kids and what I have read about in your posts is the amount of required output. My kids did a lot of math, and quite a bit of writing, but almost no output for the content subjects. No worksheets, study guides, vocab activities, etc. Science, history and Spanish were entirely input + discussion + occasional hands-on activities. And that input was either listened to/watched by the whole group, or by all the elementary students while the oldest read his own input.

I love this. I second no output for content subjects. It’s a win for everyone in our house in every way!

[LMD]

Okay, you have 5th, 4th, 2nd, K? Firstly, yeah that's busy! You're not crazy, it is a lot! Some tweaks and pre planning and letting go will help, but yeah it's hard work.

Secondly, do you combine them for anything? For example, my 6th & 3rd do the same content subjects, just with adjusted outputs (one will just narrate history, while the older does an outline, for example). Latin could be done all together in 10 mins, for example, with Getting Started With Latin.

The math, I'd look at it. I'd stop at a certain point, they just won't be learning much anyway after pushing for an hour. Maybe you can look at the weekly lesson plans and adjust to alternate so each kid only has one 'big teaching' day a week. As in, Monday you work on the big idea intensely with the 5th grader, then he just requires a 10 min reminder & mostly independent practice on Tuesday/Wednesday, then another bigger lesson review on Thursday or Friday. On Monday the 4th grader could do a lighter review lesson or facts game, big intense teaching with mom on Tuesday etc.

Fourthly, are you doing things in your homeschool day that YOU love? That refresh your homeschooling parent spirit? What inspires you, that you would like to share with your kids? For example, my homeschool always feels harder when we give up on art. I love doing art projects with my kids. Even just incorporating 10 mins of drawing in the morning helps me remember the joy of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Is it read alouds? Is it walking in the woods? Is it bike riding, or lap books, or debating, or practical life (cooking, chores) or Latin, or coding, or or or... this is your family, your kids, your homeschool. You are living it, may as well truly make it yours.

Edited September 6, 2022 by LMD

[Ting Tang]

13 minutes ago, LMD said:

Okay, you have 5th, 4th, 2nd, K? Firstly, yeah that's busy! You're not crazy, it is a lot! Some tweaks and pre planning and letting go will help, but yeah it's hard work.

Secondly, do you combine them for anything? For example, my 6th & 3rd do the same content subjects, just with adjusted outputs (one will just narrate history, while the older does an outline, for example). Latin could be done all together in 10 mins, for example, with Getting Started With Latin.

The math, I'd look at it. I'd stop at a certain point, they just won't be learning much anyway after pushing for an hour. Maybe you can look at the weekly lesson plans and adjust to alternate so each kid only has one 'big teaching' day a week. As in, Monday you work on the big idea intensely with the 5th grader, then he just requires a 10 min reminder & mostly independent practice on Tuesday/Wednesday, then another bigger lesson review on Thursday or Friday. On Monday the 4th grader could do a lighter review lesson or facts game, big intense teaching with mom on Tuesday etc.

Fourthly, are you doing things in your homeschool day that YOU love? That refresh your homeschooling parent spirit? What inspires you, that you would like to share with your kids? For example, my homeschool always feels harder when we give up on art. I love doing art projects with my kids. Even just incorporating 10 mins of drawing in the morning helps me remember the joy of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Is it read alouds? Is it walking in the woods? Is it bike riding, or lap books, or debating, or practical life (cooking, chores) or Latin, or coding, or or or... this is your family, your kids, your homeschool. You are living it, may as well truly make it yours.

It is a lot.  Today, we are dealing with colds, and my oldest was too sick to do school. So it was a lighter, refreshing day in that regard.  That is very sad!

This year, the two older ones are only combined in Geography.  The are very far apart in their reading ability, despite being close in age and a year apart in grade.  I decided that the next oldest would do a few things my 2nd grader was doing.  It just hurt his confidence to be combined with my oldest, and he probably thinks it is equally as bad when his younger sister picks up on things much faster than he does.  She is two grades below him.

I think you are right about math.  I looked closer at the Singapore schedules, and we might have a bit of flexibility.  Level 4 has 138 instruction days only.  What a relief!  I haven't added up the suggested grade periods for grade 2.  Now that I have switched the oldest to CLE, I hope that hels.

Sometimes I do feel I am not doing what I love with them.  I love the content, but it is had to do it the right way.  I feel bad we dropped the Christian Studies track from Memoria Press, and Latin is on the backburner.  I would love to study French with them. I loved that growing up, lol.  I am hoping we can just get into a routine somehow...and get things done, too!

[knitgrl]

On 9/1/2022 at 9:22 AM, ktgrok said:

For K, honestly, you don't need much, and it doesn't need to be daily. Maybe do math one day, phonics the next, or something. School isn't "real" to me until 1st. 

Even then, it's hard to mess up 1st grade. As long as phonics or reading, and math is happening, it's fine.

[Clarita]

27 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Sometimes I do feel I am not doing what I love with them.  I love the content, but it is had to do it the right way.  I feel bad we dropped the Christian Studies track from Memoria Press, and Latin is on the backburner.  I would love to study French with them. I loved that growing up, lol.  I am hoping we can just get into a routine somehow...and get things done, too!

Some of the non-core subjects I just make them zero output. I wanted to do some Bible stuff with my kids, so now I just read a Bible story (currently I'm sort of following a read through your Bible chronologically sequence, I skip what I don't want to cover mostly the rape and lineage stuff) and read a Bible verse. The story is just a read through, kids can have input or they just listen. The memory verse I just read the same one for a while, if they recite it great if they don't fine.

I let go of "doing it the right way". Some day when you get into a grove and you feel like the school day isn't quite filled enough then add those things in "correctly".

[Ausmumof3]

You have great advice already but yep totally normal to feel maxed out with those ages. I only had three and felt it. Beyond about grade 5/6 my kids began to be able to do more independent work and the workload dropped a lot. 
 

I would set a time limit on maths. I spent so many years insisting on following Singapore as scheduled and getting frustrated. Eventually I decided we would do an hour and stop. Initially the kids fell behind but eventually they caught up and also learned what they learned more solidly. 
 

I am also ok now with switching focuses. Like having a term where we do history every day and one where we do science everyday and one where we do geography etc rather than the weekly rotation. Sometimes it’s simpler on the set up front to just have to organise one thing at a time.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

Also if you haven’t already look into the morning basket concept. Put all the things you want to get to into one basket and just spend an hour reading through it each day. Move each thing to the back as you do a section. Rather than having super controlled output just have the kids narrate or give them art books to draw pictures of what you’re reading or write down what they found interesting as you’re doing it. It doesn’t feel like much each day but we got through a surprising amount of extra stuff doing this and it was much less stressful.

[Ausmumof3]

Also, if you’re doing the school comparison things here’s what I saw last week. A y5 class enter and exit the science lab 5 times before they did it quietly enough to keep the teacher happy. This took half the lesson time. Then they spent 15 minutes learning how to put on safety glasses and tie and untie the aprons. With no adults to help the untying took them ages. Then they went back to class and played a kind of movement with calling out science facts they’d learned earlier that term game. 
 

It made me feel a whole lot better about the science we were doing at home.

[Ting Tang]

Thank you both for additional ideas! I e considered catching up on non-core subjects during shorter holiday weeks. And thanks— I do think a lot of time in school is not spent in actual learning. I do wish there was more of me! 

[fairfarmhand]

I know I am late to the game, but when my kids were those ages, I had to treat homeschooling as my job. So, no laundry and cleaning didn't happen during the day. That happened on the weekend. School time was from 8 to 3ish. (All kids weren't working all that time, but I WAS working on school or school stuff during htat time) I did errands and such in the late afternoon and evening. The kids did have to help. 

I used online activities to help kids stay engaged when it wasn't their turn for mom rotation. So one kid would be reading independently, one kid would have mom time, one kid would be using an educational website, one kid would be doing copy work or busy work or whatever. I found that just telling them to go play or whatever ruined the focus and it took forever to get their brains back. 

By all means, switch to much of your curriculum being more independent. Either that or use a multi age program or informal study of content materials. 

And try not to compare what you did with your oldest to what you did with your youngers. It really is ok to have it be different for each child. I promise my oldest got the BEST kindergarten education, and it trickled down to way way less quality for my youngest. Now my youngest is in high school and there really isn't much difference in their abilities. (Except for my second child, she's always struggled with school but has the BEST study skills and work ethic of any of my kids.)

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I know I am late to the game, but when my kids were those ages, I had to treat homeschooling as my job. So, no laundry and cleaning didn't happen during the day. That happened on the weekend. School time was from 8 to 3ish. (All kids weren't working all that time, but I WAS working on school or school stuff during htat time) I did errands and such in the late afternoon and evening. The kids did have to help. 

I used online activities to help kids stay engaged when it wasn't their turn for mom rotation. So one kid would be reading independently, one kid would have mom time, one kid would be using an educational website, one kid would be doing copy work or busy work or whatever. I found that just telling them to go play or whatever ruined the focus and it took forever to get their brains back. 

By all means, switch to much of your curriculum being more independent. Either that or use a multi age program or informal study of content materials. 

And try not to compare what you did with your oldest to what you did with your youngers. It really is ok to have it be different for each child. I promise my oldest got the BEST kindergarten education, and it trickled down to way way less quality for my youngest. Now my youngest is in high school and there really isn't much difference in their abilities. (Except for my second child, she's always struggled with school but has the BEST study skills and work ethic of any of my kids.)

Thank you so much!  I do feel like I am working all day, even though the kids are not.  We are slowly finding a rhythm this year (I think), but there are definitely differences in how I am, say teaching my K now compared to my daughter two years ago.  We're doing the minimum now---no fancy projects or art books, or social studies coloring pages, though I do read to him about social studies topics, for example.  The independence is slow...  but ironically, the one who struggles most seems to have a great work ethic, too! 

[Brittany1116]

@Ting Tang just a thought about CLE math.... there are 170 lessons and 10 tests. You could skip the quizzes, or skip the review days before the LU tests, to drop a few days. The reviews never introduce new info, so that would shave 10 days in itself.

[seemesew]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:21 PM, Ting Tang said:

I'm seriously considering CLE 5th grade math for my oldest.  My middle kids seem to be doing alright with the Singapore Dimensions, but the workload is quite heavy.

We did do a lot of MP last year, but now only my 2nd grader is doing a little bit of it.  She is using it for enrichment, literature, and spelling.  She has handwriting she can do independently, but the rest has to be with me.  And the math she needs a lot of my help with, too--Singapore Dimensions 2A.

My 4th grader is doing Rod and Staff spelling and handwriting.  AAR Level 3.  Singapore Dimensions 4A.  MP Geography I.  TGTB science. Was hoping to get to more Latin, but seems impossible.

The 5th grader is doing MCT language arts, Rod and Staff spelling, Geography I, TGTB science.  Singapore Primary 6 Standards.

I think I covered it all.  The issue is with independent activities, they cannot be independent. My 4th grader is a struggling reader yet, so he needs my help, too.  

I feel like we could spend all day just doing three kids' math lessons.

I would drop geography, and drop tgab science or go down to 1 lesson a week.

Change math programs for sure.