Suggestions for replying to argumentative people

[Indigo Blue]

 

Deleted

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Jean in Newcastle]

You don't have to say anything at all.  Or you can follow your very sensible son and say "this is unproductive". 

 

[Indigo Blue]

The thing is, I visit, and we have to talk about something. I avoid most things and try to keep things light. Restaurants and the Triangle are neutral. It just seems it’s getting a bit worse lately. And harder.

6 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You don't have to say anything at all.  Or you can follow your very sensible son and say "this is unproductive". 

 

And, yes, ds is very sensible. He also knows how this person is, and probably decided to say something to end it.

[Clarita]

Usually with my person if it's not an "important" thing (Ukraine is an important thing but my discussion with someone over it is not) I do what you do and give up and alright. I never say you are right or anything just alright. If they push, I ask what response they want from me. If I disagree and they want me to agree then I say well I don't think you can convince me and I don't think I can convince you so what's the point? If we are actually in agreement (don't know about your argumentative person but mine will argue me even when we agree), we agree what do you want me to say.

I do have some friends who are argumentative because they want to debate things. In those cases, as long as it stays civil I engage and have fun with it. When it turns nasty I just tell them it's going too far for me and can we pick another topic.  

[Katy]

Is this someone who likes to debate, or is this someone with a mental health issue? 

[Scarlett]

It can be exhausting to have to feel like you are on high alert with any one.  And just when you feel comfortable and drop your guard, BAM it comes out of nowhere.  When person A said, early on, 'No it is much further down by XXX  It is way back off the road behind a movie theater' that is the point you should have said, 'hmmm.'  And changed the topic.  

Of course I have the benefit of hindsite and all that....plus it is difficult when OTHER people are in the conversation who might actually like to know.  But the instant you detect argumentativeness, just back out of the conversation.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Gently, it's not your job to not cause anger or not push buttons.  Person A is making herself angry.  You are not responsible for her emotions.  And frankly, she will always get angry because that's what she does.  You are NOT responsible for her emotions.  

What do you talk about?  Weather?  I got to where I sat in silence a lot.  TV shows? Or silence.  You don't HAVE to talk.  

((hugs))

[Ann.without.an.e]

Gosh, these people are so hard. I would usually just say "wow, I really thought it was in (insert place), I will have to check that next time I'm out." Then really restrain myself not to take a pic to prove my point and send it to them the next time I'm out 😂 

[Indigo Blue]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

Is this someone who likes to debate, or is this someone with a mental health issue? 

They like to seem knowledgeable. Don’t like to be wrong in front of others. There is no diagnosed condition, but I have my own thoughts on things. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, perky said:

Gently, it's not your job to not cause anger or not push buttons.  Person A is making herself angry.  You are not responsible for her emotions.  And frankly, she will always get angry because that's what she does.  You are NOT responsible for her emotions.  

What do you talk about?  Weather?  I got to where I sat in silence a lot.  TV shows? Or silence.  You don't HAVE to talk.  

((hugs))

My former MIL was so difficult.  Like she was always looking to disagree with me.  So I got to the point where I thought of her as a clerk in a grocery store.  'How's the weather?'  'The flowers sure are pretty this year.'  'Isn't that a pretty bird! '  And with store clerks you just nod and smile....you don't get too annoyed if they say ridiculous things.  

[Indigo Blue]

It’s just weird to have someone insist you’ve been somewhere where you know you’ve never been. And then, when you stand your ground about it, you get “that look” from them . I know that look. And because of that, I shouldn’t have been surprised when we were all alone and round 2 was initiated. There’s just an unspoken uneasiness. It’s been that way always. I can’t fix it, and I’m done trying. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It can be exhausting to have to feel like you are on high alert with any one.  And just when you feel comfortable and drop your guard, BAM it comes out of nowhere.  When person A said, early on, 'No it is much further down by XXX  It is way back off the road behind a movie theater' that is the point you should have said, 'hmmm.'  And changed the topic.  

Of course I have the benefit of hindsite and all that....plus it is difficult when OTHER people are in the conversation who might actually like to know.  But the instant you detect argumentativeness, just back out of the conversation.

Quoting myself to add that if you want to keep talking about the restaurant change the topic to the food.  'They have the best XXX!' 

[bolt.]

Maybe, "I don't see the point in arguing with you. Can we talk about something else, please?"

[Indigo Blue]

This thread will help me to recenter myself. They have many times. 
 

Hopefully I can do better next time. I usually do, but the time when I don’t, it never ends well, and I know it’s not worth it in the end. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[sassenach]

I have someone in my life like this. The ONLY way I have found to deal with it is to eject ASAP. So when they said you've eaten there before, instead of saying that you hadn't, I would have said, "Huh, I don't remember that." And if they give you more arguments that you had, I would reply, "That's funny, I don't remember but I believe you" (or "we should go there again" or "I guess I forgot about it"). I never, ever, ever get into a back and forth with them anymore. Sometimes I literally just stop talking. As in, I don't reply, don't counter them, just let it drop. 

If there's a different solution to this personality, I haven't found it.

[Ann.without.an.e]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My former MIL was so difficult.  Like she was always looking to disagree with me.  So I got to the point where I thought of her as a clerk in a grocery store.  'How's the weather?'  'The flowers sure are pretty this year.'  'Isn't that a pretty bird! '  And with store clerks you just nod and smile....you don't get too annoyed if they say ridiculous things.  

In our immediate family we have a joke phrase we use when we want to change the subject and it is "so, do you think it might rain anytime soon?" 😂  Yes, even our kids in law (or future kids in law) use it sometimes. It is like an exit the convo card for us 😉

 

[Indigo Blue]

2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I have someone in my life like this. The ONLY way I have found to deal with it is to eject ASAP. So when they said you've eaten there before, instead of saying that you hadn't, I would have said, "Huh, I don't remember that." And if they give you more arguments that you had, I would reply, "That's funny, I don't remember but I believe you" (or "we should go there again" or "I guess I forgot about it"). I never, ever, ever get into a back and forth with them anymore. Sometimes I literally just stop talking. As in, I don't reply, don't counter them, just let it drop. 

If there's a different solution to this personality, I haven't found it.

Thanks so much. Yes, you are right. But my initial reaction was not to argue to be right, I honestly just wanted to be clear that I hadn’t been there for no other reason than because it just wasn’t true. But, yes, you are right. Just let it drop.

[prairiewindmomma]

There’s no point in arguing with them. They need to be right and will typically argue it to death, and if they feel they weren’t seen as being right, will bring it up again. 
 

Have you learned the grey rock technique? Be as uninteresting, no challenging, and boring as possible and keep your interactions as brief as possible.

AFA how I would have handled the “where is the restaurant” question—I would have pulled out Google maps at the first mention of the restaurant and found it on the map. 

[Bootsie]

In situations like that I have found that I can conclude one of two things:

1.  The person wants to be argumentative and difficult.  If this is the case, if I further the conversation about the topic, I know it is going to be argumentative.  Do I want to engage in that conversation?  I am not going to do something/say something that proves that I am right and they are wrong and end the conversation.  

2.  The person is really confused.  They are not intentionally making up that we had been to the restaurant to argue about it.  They may have been with someone else; they may be thinking about a different restaurant.  If this is typical of this person, there probably isn't anything I am going to say right now that is going to clear up their confusion.  If anything, I would ask questions:  When do you think we went there? Was it just the two of us?  What did we eat?  Maybe they will figure out their confusion.  Maybe I can piece together something like--Oh, I know what you are thinking about; we went to Cracker Basket--this is a different place--Cracker Barrell--but I can see why you are confused.  

I would probably simply say something like, "Hmm.  That is funny that I don't remember going there before."  and then change the subject.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

20 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Thanks so much. Yes, you are right. But my initial reaction was not to argue to be right, I honestly just wanted to be clear that I hadn’t been there for no other reason than because it just wasn’t true. But, yes, you are right. Just let it drop.

 

I think it is so hard. You can know logically what you should do or say in these situations but it's one of those things that's easier said than done, right? I always know how I would approach something before and how I should've approached it after but getting it right on the spot, in the heat of someone's stupidity is so dang hard. 

[SKL]

On topics that aren't important in the grand scheme of things, it would probably be better to smile and nod at the first sign that you don't agree.

As for why it was brought up again, I don't know, but it could be because you suggested going there to eat as a group.

As for whether there is a move theater behind Building X or whether Building X is behind the movie theater, that is just a different way of seeing the same thing.  3+4=7 AND 7-4=3.  I have a friend who always sees things the opposite way I do, and at the same time, we are often both right.  It's actually fascinating.  But does the movie theater placement really matter?  I'm gonna say no, and it's time to smile and nod.  🙂

[Carrie12345]

Google.
Ends many a dumb argument in my life. (I’ve won and I’ve lost.)

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Google.
Ends many a dumb argument in my life. (I’ve won and I’ve lost.)

That's really not a bad idea tbh. And you can even play it carefully. "Gosh, I don't remember it being there, now you've sparked my curiosity. Let's look it up on maps so we know in the future." It doesn't have to be "in your face, see".  

[Indigo Blue]

 

Deleted 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Indigo Blue]

3 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

That's really not a bad idea tbh. And you can even play it carefully. "Gosh, I don't remember it being there, now you've sparked my curiosity. Let's look it up on maps so we know in the future." It doesn't have to be "in your face, see".  

Right. That makes sense.

[sassenach]

31 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Thanks so much. Yes, you are right. But my initial reaction was not to argue to be right, I honestly just wanted to be clear that I hadn’t been there for no other reason than because it just wasn’t true. But, yes, you are right. Just let it drop.

No judgement from me. Believe me, I've found myself unintentionally on this ride so many times. The hard/sad part is that you can't really let your guard down around people like this. There's no such thing as a normal conversation. If you're not strategic, you'll get sucked in.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you know that she’s a narcissist. It shouldn’t surprise you when she does narcissistic things like insisting on always being right even when she’s clearly wrong or when it really doesn’t matter. 

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Let me try to explain how there is more to this argument over something seemingly so trivial. I don’t know if I can. 
 

There was a point in that conversation when I could feel her uneasiness toward me. That moment happened when I did not back down that very last time. I usually do, because it’s not worth risking her getting angrier. But I’m not “supposed” to be that assertive toward her. My brother can be, and has many times. She doesn’t bat an eye. This will never, ever change. I knew the moment it had gone too far, but I had really done nothing “wrong”. 

She considered that as my challenging her, and she just doesn’t like  that. And I really never even raised my voice or let her see that I was getting irritated. I just flatly stated the facts.

If the same conversation started between me and Dh or one of my sons, that whole thing would have looked entirely different.

This is why it’s so upsetting.

 

Have you ever considered creating an "I quit the argument early" jar to motivate yourself?  You know like how some people have a reward or penalty jar where they reinforce a habit change they are trying to make.  Reward yourself every time you smile and nod before that toxic tension arises.

[Melissa Louise]

It's not worth it. Grey rock the whole thing. IMO.

Yes, you were right. Doesn't matter. You're not going to change the person's narcissism through an argument. 

Being right, and proving you are right, and standing up for the fact you are right will not get you anything in particular from this person. 

If you can't bear to grey rock, either don't see the person, or get comfortable with arguing over every little thing. 

[Slache]

Just let them be wong.

[Clarita]

I wouldn't blame yourself for "not backing down" fast enough. I mean your buttons can get pushed too. It's exhausting to be on your "A" game all the time with an argumentative person.

[YaelAldrich]

54 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Maybe, "I don't see the point in arguing with you. Can we talk about something else, please?"

You can't be that bold and direct with people like this. It doesn't work and in fact brings the passive aggression up a notch or two.

[Indigo Blue]

Thanks a million times for these replies. 

[catz]

Well if it is something I can easily disprove with a google, I would say look it up in the moment "oh interesting, I remember that differently, let's look it up on the map".  We actually do this all the time but I usually carry an iPad in my purse when I am out and we are super nerdy like that.  

Otherwise you can train people not to behave this way around you.  I have a few people in my life that just like to push buttons.  And a couple others that just bring up obnoxious things I don't want to talk about.  Like my mom grills me on my adult and teen kids speculating about their futures and meh, I have no idea and don't take great joy in looking too far ahead.  They are living their best lives, we'll see where that takes them.  So I shut that down fast.  

Something like ... "Guess we're going to think differently on this" OR "interesting, I have no idea."  Maybe it's time for us to insert-something-here" (leave, eat, play a game, turn on the golf tourney, talk gardening, go for a walk, bake cookies, whatever.   

It can be better to get together with something in mind like a project or an outing.  If someone is being extra button pushy and argumentative, I'd have no qualms about bringing a visit to an end.  "Hmm ... you see a little out of sorts today.  Maybe we should pack up and see you next time."  

[Indigo Blue]

1 minute ago, YaelAldrich said:

You can't be that bold and direct with people like this. It doesn't work and in fact brings the passive aggression up a notch or two.

Sadly, I agree. That’s why I was trying to think of neutral ways to respond, but I’m getting a reality check and reminder that I just need to eject ASAP like @sassenachsaid. Grey rock 🪨.

[saraha]

@Indigo Blue I think your person and my mom are so much alike. I walk into those same dumb conversations. She will double down every time I don’t agree with her. I have gotten to the point  where I just agree with everything she says. It’s starting to drive her nuts.

[mathnerd]

This is one kind of gaslighting where they try to distort your reality so that you are told their version of what you did, when you did it and how you did it until you agree with them.

Pull out Google maps and show them where the place is. Even then they will insist that they thought that you are wrong.

[plaidpants]

Say, "Okay, thanks, bye."

 

Bean dip or grey rock to your heart's content but when they just want to start stuff the best thing to do is not give them anything.

[Indigo Blue]

On 2/25/2022 at 3:58 PM, saraha said:

@Indigo Blue I think your person and my mom are so much alike. I walk into those same dumb conversations. She will double down every time I don’t agree with her. I have gotten to the point  where I just agree with everything she says. It’s starting to drive her nuts.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Indigo Blue
Deleted

[Forget-Me-Not]

Noncommittal “Hmmm, you might be right” and change the topic. You’re not really admitting she’s right or you’re wrong. I mean, we *might* have stumbled into an alternate dimension where the restaurant location is different, right? 😄 

[Slache]

“I’m at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you’re right — have fun.” -Keanu Reeves

[Indigo Blue]

Just now, Slache said:

“I’m at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you’re right — have fun.” -Keanu Reeves

Well, I won’t argue with anything he says……🙃

[Indigo Blue]

30 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

If you know that she’s a narcissist. It shouldn’t surprise you when she does narcissistic things like insisting on always being right even when she’s clearly wrong or when it really doesn’t matter. 

I know. But it’s sooooo haarrd .sometimes. 

[Jenny in Florida]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

I have someone in my life like this. The ONLY way I have found to deal with it is to eject ASAP. So when they said you've eaten there before, instead of saying that you hadn't, I would have said, "Huh, I don't remember that." And if they give you more arguments that you had, I would reply, "That's funny, I don't remember but I believe you" (or "we should go there again" or "I guess I forgot about it"). I never, ever, ever get into a back and forth with them anymore. Sometimes I literally just stop talking. As in, I don't reply, don't counter them, just let it drop. 

If there's a different solution to this personality, I haven't found it.

I give a little less ground than you do, but I basically do some variation of, "Huh, that's not how I remember it." (Insert shrug and change of subject here.)

If I can't change the subject, I'll change my focus to another person, a pet, a potted plant . . . 

[Slache]

Just now, Indigo Blue said:

Well, I won’t argue with anything he says……🙃

I love this quote. Your original post is my mother in law, and being to say to myself "Ok, you can think that. Enjoy," was very freeing to me.

Go be wrong in your wrongness in that 89° corner over there. You do you, and I'll do it the right way.

[Melissa Louise]

5 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Maybe we should take a piece of information from this thread. No matter what they say, just respond, “I have no idea.” Lol.

To me, it seems safe and not anger provoking.

 

”Is Greensboro in the Triangle?”

”I have no idea!”

 

“Yes, we ate there before”. 

“I have no idea!”

 

Any sweeping generalization gets a

”I have no idea!”

 

Any gossipy comment

”I have no idea!”

 

Eject. Eject. Eject.Eject.

Honestly, I spent a lot of time with my person, and I say variations on this. 

'Oh, ok.'

'Huh '

'Well, there you go.'

'Gosh' 

'Not sure '

'You could be right.'

Arguments won't/can't heal the unmet need in you, even if you are right. 

Consider using the argument to set boundaries as a way of avoiding the boundary you need to set. 

 

 

[Indigo Blue]

3 minutes ago, Slache said:

I love this quote. Your original post is my mother in law, and being to say to myself "Ok, you can think that. Enjoy," was very freeing to me.

Go be wrong in your wrongness in that 89° corner over there. You do you, and I'll do it the right way.

89 degree corner? Ok, that is making me twitch. 🥲

[teachermom2834]

I know it isn’t mature of me but I cannot just let my MIL be right all the time. Because she will argue every inconsequential thing to death. I can concede and just drop the subject and then thirty seconds later we are at it again over another subject. I know I should just let it go but it gets to be like it is chipping away at my soul or something to just let her be right or go unchallenged on everything. I should but I just can’t. 
 

But I do just look at her and ask “what is it you want me to say to end this?” Or “which street do you want me to take?” For whatever reason my announcing that I am conceding and letting it go allows me to retain some shred of myself that I can’t by just remaining silent. Lol. Like “ok…you win but you are still wrong.” 
 

I don’t recommend my method. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by teachermom2834

[Slache]

Just now, Indigo Blue said:

89 degree corner? Ok, that is making me twitch. 🥲

I mean like as opposed to 90°, so not a right angle.

Go be wrong in your wrongness in your improperly built corner.

[Indigo Blue]

1 hour ago, perky said:

Gently, it's not your job to not cause anger or not push buttons.  Person A is making herself angry.  You are not responsible for her emotions.  And frankly, she will always get angry because that's what she does.  You are NOT responsible for her emotions.  

What do you talk about?  Weather?  I got to where I sat in silence a lot.  TV shows? Or silence.  You don't HAVE to talk.  

((hugs))

I like this. I think watching things on YouTube or TV is a good idea. Because otherwise, even if there is no kind of disagreement, there is extreme negativity, doom and gloom, or gossip. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Indigo Blue