Ukraine

[SKL]

Some people are suggesting this would be a great time for people in other areas under unwanted Russian control to rebel.  Seems logical to me.

[Ann.without.an.e]

33 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

President Zelenskyy's speech to the Russian people. Very moving. I hope it gets widespread attention in Russia.

wow, what a great plea to the Russians. I hope they hear it, I hope it is spread from person to person and they know the truth. 

Ukraine would’ve already been taken had it not been for this man. When your president chooses to stay and fight, not only does it gain the heart of the people to fight too but it also gains the attention of your Allies and even your enemies. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

 

Great article -

Title: Zelenskyy is a courageous leader. He deserves both America's admiration and support.

 

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6955985001

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Murphy101]

9 hours ago, chiguirre said:

I think you're missing that when the UN was established the USSR was an ally and the first army into Berlin. Russia was recognized as the successor state when the USSR dissolved in 1991.

The UN isn't a highly functional organization, most of the time it's highly scripted and has very little capacity to act. But, it does provide a forum for nations to air their grievances and it does provide an opportunity for small nations to have some voice about global issues.  For example, Barbados' PM Mia Mottley's speech about the effects of climate change on island nations got a lot of coverage. 

I think the UN is utterly useless. Big whoop she got to chat with them. What actually changed for most island nations as a result of it? Nada that’s what.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Murphy101

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, Condessa said:

I’m on a Facebook page for parents of children with gliomas that has many international members, and they’re saying Russia is targeting hospitals.  There was a picture of pediatric cancer patients sitting in the hospital basement as the hospital was under bombardment.

I’m so very sorry. This is just heartbreaking. 

[Roadrunner]

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mcfaul-the-u-s-should-throw-shock-and-awe-economic-sanctions-at-russia-134059589530?fbclid=IwAR075tdehoKaAOKfaoWbb6CQog8Cao8m9FLdm4-kO4nd3viTGQu4PI6pZ2M
 

He is a former ambassador to Russia. 

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Some people are suggesting this would be a great time for people in other areas under unwanted Russian control to rebel.  Seems logical to me.

Zelensky is showing himself to be amazing figure to inspire a call to arms. I hope he lives to see a positive outcome.  

[AnotherNewName]

29 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I think the UN is utterly useless. Big whoop she got to chat with them. What actually changed for most island nations as a result of it? Nada that’s what.

Considering most nations don't want to be bound by dictates from a world body, one could easily argue the UN being useless is a feature, not a bug.

[Murphy101]

29 minutes ago, AnotherNewName said:

Considering most nations don't want to be bound by dictates from a world body, one could easily argue the UN being useless is a feature, not a bug.

There’s a difference between not being dictated by the UN and the UN being nothing more than a chance smaller countries to blow hot air in futility, between being an abuse of use and being useless. 

[chiguirre]

33 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

There’s a difference between not being dictated by the UN and the UN being nothing more than a chance smaller countries to blow hot air in futility, between being an abuse of use and being useless. 

Sometimes optics matter. They can shape public opinion in surprising ways.

[regentrude]

If you want to do something practical: there are many places to donate.

After reading around a bit, we have chosen to give to CARE for their Ukraine Emergency Fund https://www.care.org/  They are legit and have a four star rating on Charity Navigator.

I'm sure there are other good organizations out there.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mcfaul-the-u-s-should-throw-shock-and-awe-economic-sanctions-at-russia-134059589530?fbclid=IwAR075tdehoKaAOKfaoWbb6CQog8Cao8m9FLdm4-kO4nd3viTGQu4PI6pZ2M
 

He is a former ambassador to Russia. 

That was Friday, 6a EST, before the moves against Putin, directly, and SWIFT. A lot has happened since then.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

Abramovich, or as he is called “Putin’s pocket,” is still not on a sanctioned list. Strange. 

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Abramovich, or as he is called “Putin’s pocket,” is still not on a sanctioned list. Strange. 

Do you mean the Chelsea football club owner?  Apparently he already has some sanctions on him as of a few years ago. from the US anyway

[Pam in CT]

re Abramovitch

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Do you mean the Chelsea football club owner?  Apparently he already has some sanctions on him as of a few years ago. from the US anyway

Yeah, he was among the ~100 "Putin's List" that Treasury was required to compile after Congress passed a sanctions bill in 2017.  While Treasury was required by the law to compile *a* list, analysts at the time -- and perhaps some members of Congress who had themselves passed the sanctions bill -- were surprised that the list was longer, more comprehensive, and unclassified/ made public, than was really expected.

List (it's by organization/rank rather than alphabetical order; he's #2 on Apendix B, List of Oligarchs, p. 7 of the PDF)

BBC 'splainer

But these actions fall short of SWIFT; and there was a flurry of press yesterday noting that Abramovitch was not included in the SWIFT list.  FWIW, he (essentially) bought citizenship in Israel after the UK Parliament passed a provision enabling Unexplained Wealth Orders, a law enforcement tool meant to enable easier confiscation of foreign-owned property found to be involved in money laundering. (I don't believe that the UK has actually attempted to *use* UWO against him... though I'm not sure in-progress proceedings would be public.)

 

I'm still trying to figure out all of what the SWIFT move actually means in practice; and in particular if China (who holds ~$1 trillion US federal debt and great gobs of US corporate debt; and thus has YUGE market power in the capital markets) will have the de facto ability to force financial institutions into joining a new system that the Russians lopped off SWIFT can just hop onto while displacing the US dollar as international currency of record. I'm *quite* sure this issue has been well vetted and considered among the US/EU central bankers and they made the call they made. Just another unintended consequence out of a series of lousy choices.

[Faith-manor]

10 hours ago, regentrude said:

If you want to do something practical: there are many places to donate.

After reading around a bit, we have chosen to give to CARE for their Ukraine Emergency Fund https://www.care.org/  They are legit and have a four star rating on Charity Navigator.

I'm sure there are other good organizations out there.

Donating. Also going to go look and see what Doctors W/O Borders is going to do.

[Pam in CT]

~ praying for face-saving off ramp ~

 

[Ting Tang]

Just listened to a retired Navy Veteran who is also from that region. He says we are all in danger, and Ukrainians are just the ones bleeding for us right now. We are not “dealing with a normal man,” he said, with regard to him putting his nuclear forces on high alert.   I’m debating on whether or not it’s safe for me to go 1.5 hours away from home today with my daughter. Not sure why our President isn’t addressing the American people on a regular basis. Just feels so absent. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Pawz4me]

3 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Not sure why our President isn’t addressing the American people on a regular basis. Just feels so absent. 

???

He just addressed the nation on Thursday, and the SOTU speech is coming up Tuesday. My hope during any crisis is that the POTUS (whoever he or she may be) is spending time on substantive developments. I like action, not words.

 

 

[thewellerman]

5 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Just listened to a retired Navy Veteran who is also from that region. He says we are all in danger, and Ukrainians are just the ones bleeding for us right now. We are not “dealing with a normal man,” he said, with regard to him putting his nuclear forces on high alert.   I’m debating on whether or not it’s safe for me to go 1.5 hours away from home today with my daughter. Not sure why our President isn’t addressing the American people on a regular basis. Just feels so absent. 

You should definitely go.  Any number of things could happen on any given day, but I don't think we are here yet.  In the off chance of a cyberattack, fill your tank before you leave your town, when you arrive to your destination, and also when you return.  Pack some snacks and take some cash.  But really, I am going about life not doing any of those things right now.  We cannot stay on high alert for a long time, and we have already endured a long pandemic.  Personally, I think it is better to resist fear for Americans as this time, and focus my thoughts on Ukraine.  If the time comes, we will adjust. 

[Ting Tang]

10 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

???

He just addressed the nation on Thursday, and the SOTU speech is coming up Tuesday. My hope during any crisis is that the POTUS (whoever he or she may be) is spending time on substantive developments. I like action, not words.

 

 

It’s Sunday now, and he’s threatened nuclear escalation. He once told Putin to his face he didn’t think he had a soul. He knows what we are dealing with. I like action, too, but this is unprecedented. He should be assuring the people, in my opinion.  ETA- I’m not trying to be aggressive. I watched Thursday. I think we really have a Hitler on our hands. 😔

Edited February 27, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Ting Tang]

3 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

You should definitely go.  Any number of things could happen on any given day, but I don't think we are here yet.  In the off chance of a cyberattack, fill your tank before you leave your town, when you arrive to your destination, and also when you return.  Pack some snacks and take some cash.  But really, I am going about life not doing any of those things right now.  We cannot stay on high alert for a long time, and we have already endured a long pandemic.  Personally, I think it is better to resist fear for Americans as this time, and focus my thoughts on Ukraine.  If the time comes, we will adjust. 

Thank you. I want to, but it’s so scary. 😔 I just don’t know how this mad man will be deterred. 

[thewellerman]

Just now, Ting Tang said:

It’s Sunday now, and he’s threatened nuclear escalation. He once told Putin to his face he didn’t think he had a soul. He knows what we are dealing with. I like action, too, but this is unprecedented. He should be assuring the people, in my opinion.  

Do you remember the movie, "Men in Black"?  One character is exasperated that the American people haven't been told about all the aliens.  The seasoned veteran replies, "A person is smart, but people are stupid."  In times of major crisis, speaking less yet very clearly is ideal.  Right now, there isn't much to say.  He can't tip his hand to our potential responses to the nuclear threat, and right now it is still saber rattling anyway.  Also...pretty much nothing assuring could be said about a nuclear war.  It is hard to wait, but I think the lack of public comment is appropriate.  

I also want to urge caution in another area.  I come from a long line of military veterans, and know a lot more of them.  They are all just people, and  very very few have more significant insight to a specific geopolitical event than you or I could glean from self study or even a late night google.  Being in the military at one time doesn't give a person above average information unless they specifically worked on a project.  And then?  They can't talk about it.  Using prior military service, aside from specific experience or further education, is an appeal to authority, not a valid argument.  I'm not trying to be dismissive.  I'm very concerned with current events.  I'm just attempting to share a little of the inner peace I still hold. 

[Grace Hopper]

14 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I would like to recommend a book for anyone wanting to learn more about how Russia was moving to this point.  It is called "Red Notice- A True Story of High Finance, Murder, and One Man's Fight for Justice" by Bill Browder and it was published in 2015.  This guy was a finance guy who started first advising/investing with other newly open Eastern European countries in 1990 and started advising/investing in Russia in 1992.  It was a fascinating read and explained a lot how the oligarchs got their enormous wealth, how incredibly corrupt Russia was and still is, and its murderous ways too.  This man started out as an American financier and ended up as an activist against Putin.  The book also made me sad because the law that was eventually passed had almost unanimous votes in both the Senate and the House.

I noticed one of the streaming channels (Netflix iirc) has a new flick called Red Notice. Same story, or just coincidental title?

I follow a political historian on Facebook, Heather Cox Richardson. Not linking/copying here due to politics but each day she publishes a summary letter. Some of you may find it interesting, especially with regard to how this is as much ( perhaps more) a psy op and economic battle as it is military. There’s much to war these days that does not involve sending troops. 

[Carrie12345]

20 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

You should definitely go.  Any number of things could happen on any given day, but I don't think we are here yet.  In the off chance of a cyberattack, fill your tank before you leave your town, when you arrive to your destination, and also when you return.  Pack some snacks and take some cash.  But really, I am going about life not doing any of those things right now.  We cannot stay on high alert for a long time, and we have already endured a long pandemic.  Personally, I think it is better to resist fear for Americans as this time, and focus my thoughts on Ukraine.  If the time comes, we will adjust. 

I’m in the in between.  Dh and I are going out today. Our family has always had emergency plans. We have recently reviewed/tweaked them. They remain unlikely to be needed *today*. But thinking it through when it’s not needed is what makes it more doable if it ever is. In the meantime, it’s a thought exercise, and handy for any NORMAL emergency that might come up.

[Ting Tang]

9 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

Do you remember the movie, "Men in Black"?  One character is exasperated that the American people haven't been told about all the aliens.  The seasoned veteran replies, "A person is smart, but people are stupid."  In times of major crisis, speaking less yet very clearly is ideal.  Right now, there isn't much to say.  He can't tip his hand to our potential responses to the nuclear threat, and right now it is still saber rattling anyway.  Also...pretty much nothing assuring could be said about a nuclear war.  It is hard to wait, but I think the lack of public comment is appropriate.  

I also want to urge caution in another area.  I come from a long line of military veterans, and know a lot more of them.  They are all just people, and  very very few have more significant insight to a specific geopolitical event than you or I could glean from self study or even a late night google.  Being in the military at one time doesn't give a person above average information unless they specifically worked on a project.  And then?  They can't talk about it.  Using prior military service, aside from specific experience or further education, is an appeal to authority, not a valid argument.  I'm not trying to be dismissive.  I'm very concerned with current events.  I'm just attempting to share a little of the inner peace I still hold. 

I just feel like things are rapidly changing, and we are hearing all these new frightening things from the news. Thank you for sharing this thought in the military. The news channels all do this often. I believe from this man’s accent he is Russian. He didn’t say anything I wasn’t thinking already.  I’m not sure how long we keep Putin at bay. 

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m in the in between.  Dh and I are going out today. Our family has always had emergency plans. We have recently reviewed/tweaked them. They remain unlikely to be needed *today*. But thinking it through when it’s not needed is what makes it more doable if it ever is. In the meantime, it’s a thought exercise, and handy for any NORMAL emergency that might come up.

Oh yes, we are somewhat prepared, should we have to hunker down. But I do know our vehicles may not work if power grids or satellites go down, and walking 100+ miles would take a long time with a little girl. 😔 

[Pawz4me]

24 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

It’s Sunday now, and he’s threatened nuclear escalation. He once told Putin to his face he didn’t think he had a soul. He knows what we are dealing with. I like action, too, but this is unprecedented. He should be assuring the people, in my opinion.  ETA- I’m not trying to be aggressive. I watched Thursday. I think we really have a Hitler on our hands. 😔

Often the best response to a bully--or a malignant narcissist--is to ignore the tantrums and drama.

 

12 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I follow a political historian on Facebook, Heather Cox Richardson. Not linking/copying here due to politics but each day she publishes a summary letter.

She's awesome. I think her posts are on Substack in addition to FB.

[VickiMNE]

From our friends in Moldova aiding refugees written this morning:

Quote

Before the non-stop day begins, I seek to write something, both to inform but also to start processing personally what we are seeing on the ground.

Each day there are countless heart-wrenching stories.

In the first wave of refugees on Thursday, people were fleeing in whole family units.

In the first wave, there was a sense of immense relief.

Relief to be out.

Relief to be together.

Sheer, unbridled relief.

Now in the second wave, there is a different overriding emotion. Grief.

Since Friday morning, there have been almost no Ukrainian men who have escaped.

All who have made it to Moldova have left male loved ones behind. Now many of the men who don’t want to be conscripted are lying low in villages. But on Friday, there were plenty of men who were forcibly removed from their loved ones as they tried to flee together.

On Friday we welcomed bus load after bus load of women and children of all ages. There was food, wifi and we were sorting out accommodation or further transport as needed. Before we ate, the pastor prayed powerfully from the heart for everyone. By the end of the prayer, there was not a dry eye in the house.

For some, especially the teenage girls and young women, the level of trauma that they were going through was utterly heartbreaking. I will never forget some of those girls who cried from the moment we saw them, until the moment we said goodbye. Raw, unprocessed grief.

Many have hopes of going elsewhere in Europe, but I am increasingly hearing that those who have left their husbands and fathers behind understandably do not want to be more than one country away from them. So as it stands, some say they will stay in Moldova. They are waiting for them. And they want to keep waiting, as close as they safely can.

May the Lord comfort them in their sorrow, heal them of their trauma, and reunite them with their loved ones.

 

[Murphy101]

32 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

There’s much to war these days that does not involve sending troops. 

Well that’s always been true. 

20 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I just feel like things are rapidly changing, and we are hearing all these new frightening things from the news. 

Then stop watching the news.  Or choose one thing of news to stay updated and check it only once a day.  The general truth is none of us have ever known what tomorrow brings. So don’t waste today worrying about unknown things you have no control over. 

[bibiche]

19 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Often the best response to a bully--or a malignant narcissist--is to ignore the tantrums and drama.

 

She's awesome. I think her posts are on Substack in addition to FB.

Yup. But many Americans seem to think that bombast is strength and masterful negotiation is weak. 😔 

Big fan of Heather Cox Richardson. Which reminds me, I wanted to read about her conversation with Fiona Hill…

[Grace Hopper]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

Well that’s always been true. 

No, not always. Social media and global interconnectivity of the general public via the www are still relatively new in the whole scheme of things.  

[Murphy101]

7 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

No, not always. Social media and global interconnectivity of the general public via the www are still relatively new in the whole scheme of things.  

Yes always. Social media and the global internet have certainly expanded the global theatre.  But that there’s power in global theatre is not new. Even in ancient times they knew that image and public sentiment mattered and used those tools. Aside from that, there’s always been a lot to winning a war besides troops and guns.

[Slache]

37 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Often the best response to a bully--or a malignant narcissist--is to ignore the tantrums and drama.

Yes, but narcissists will tantrum to the extent they are able. You have seen people treat customer service workers terrible and storm off because it's the worst they can do. Others participate in DV and many are in prison for murder. Putin's worst tantrum is a thing to be feared, and ignoring him could be very dangerous.

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, Slache said:

Yes, but narcissists will tantrum to the extent they are able. You have seen people treat customer service workers terrible and storm off because it's the worst they can do. Others participate in DV and many are in prison for murder. Putin's worst tantrum is a thing to be feared, and ignoring him could be very dangerous.

Ignoring the talk doesn't equal ignoring--or not planning for--the possibilities.

Strong leaders know that.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Pawz4me

[Ting Tang]

I cannot even imagine having been in a room with Putin.  For Biden to say directly to his face that he didn't think he had a soul, that says something--and that was 11 years ago.   Russian leaders throughout history have just done such very cruel things, and I don't think Putin is much different. I just look to our leaders to offer some reassurance, even if it is brief, and I will try to remember they knew more than anyone else about what was likely to happen.  I will try to limit the news, though.   Prayers for peace.  

[chiguirre]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

I just feel like things are rapidly changing, and we are hearing all these new frightening things from the news. Thank you for sharing this thought in the military. The news channels all do this often. I believe from this man’s accent he is Russian. He didn’t say anything I wasn’t thinking already.  I’m not sure how long we keep Putin at bay. 

The news channels get former generals and admirals on to talk about strategy. They're literally the experts. They might be wrong sometimes, but they've spent many years planning for a war like this as their day job. That's not the same as some random vet spouting off on YouTube or Facebook.

I think it's better to read the news rather than watch it. It's much less triggering and you can step back and google things that you want to know more about. As long as you check poster's background, Twitter can be a gold mine of information and analysis from non-telegenic experts who will dive deeper into topics they know well.

[Ting Tang]

4 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

The news channels get former generals and admirals on to talk about strategy. They're literally the experts. They might be wrong sometimes, but they've spent many years planning for a war like this as their day job. That's not the same as some random vet spouting off on YouTube or Facebook.

I think it's better to read the news rather than watch it. It's much less triggering and you can step back and google things that you want to know more about. As long as you check poster's background, Twitter can be a gold mine of information and analysis from non-telegenic experts who will dive deeper into topics they know well.

Yes, I think their words are very credible.  Regardless of the news station, even the ones that slant left and right, there is a lot of agreement on Putin's nature. Reading might be less triggering. I am hearing people voice their thoughts in ways I have never heard before.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

Re: living in fear and planning for the worst

@Ting Tang

We can’t live in fear, but we can be reasonably prepared. Always follow your gut. If your gut says to stay home then stay home. Just don’t let anxiety get the best of you. Anxiety would have us all holed up and refusing to live life. That’s not productive either. If you do go, take cash and snacks and keep your tank full enough to get home. At this time, I personally don’t think there’s a reason for you not to go, but listen to your gut. 

[Ting Tang]

Just now, Ann.without.an.e said:

Re: living in fear and planning for the worst

@Ting Tang

We can’t live in fear, but we can be reasonably prepared. Always follow your gut. If your gut says to stay home then stay home. Just don’t let anxiety get the best of you. Anxiety would have us all holed up and refusing to live life. That’s not productive either. If you do go, take cash and snacks and keep your tank full enough to get home. At this time, I personally don’t think there’s a reason for you not to go, but listen to your gut. 

Thank you.  It is something about wanting to be close to my family, if something did happen.   I like reading you think we should go.  Our gas tank is full, and I will bring some money.  My daughter is supposed to have a couple of lessons for her solo sport, and it was a special thing.  Next weekend we are supposed to head the same way.  

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

Yes always. Social media and the global internet have certainly expanded the global theatre.  But that there’s power in global theatre is not new. Even in ancient times they knew that image and public sentiment mattered and used those tools. Aside from that, there’s always been a lot to winning a war besides troops and guns.

FWIW those asking for more outside military involvement (a) are young/not educated in warfare history and (b) are definitely influenced by 21st century media platforms.
 

My comment probably would have been better placed on fb because apparently folks on this board felt it ignorant and worth arguing about. 🙄

[Ann.without.an.e]

57 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you.  It is something about wanting to be close to my family, if something did happen.   I like reading you think we should go.  Our gas tank is full, and I will bring some money.  My daughter is supposed to have a couple of lessons for her solo sport, and it was a special thing.  Next weekend we are supposed to head the same way.  

Follow your gut ❤️
 

even if the power grid is hit, your car will still run. It would only fail to work if we were hit with an emp strike but I think that’s a lot more difficult to execute than most people realize. If you were getting on a plane and flying somewhere or heading a very long distance, there’d be more room for concern. Just my two cents.

 

[Ting Tang]

6 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Follow your gut ❤️
 

even if the power grid is hit, your car will still run. It would only fail to work if we were hit with an emp strike but I think that’s a lot more difficult to execute than most people realize. If you were getting on a plane and flying somewhere or heading a very long distance, there’d be more room for concern. Just my two cents.

 

Thank you so much!  I think we are just going to go.  Maybe I am being irrational and just emotional right now.  

[Pippen]

This was linked on the Ukraine thread on the Chat board.  It's out of the University of Texas - Arlington.

https://www.powervertical.org/

"The Power Vertical
The Power Vertical is a podcast and blog for Russia wonks and obsessive Kremlin watchers created by Brian Whitmore, Russia and Eurasia specialist and adjunct assistant professor in the McDowell Center for Global Studies. Podcast episodes feature the world's top minds on Russian affairs and publish weekly on Fridays. Visit www.powervertical.org for more information and to keep up with the latest news out of Moscow." (from https://www.uta.edu/mcdowellcenter/ )

[Murphy101]

37 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

FWIW those asking for more outside military involvement (a) are young/not educated in warfare history and (b) are definitely influenced by 21st century media platforms.
 

My comment probably would have been better placed on fb because apparently folks on this board felt it ignorant and worth arguing about. 🙄

One - I think it is very worth arguing.  But debating the topic means hearing things we might disagree with or learn we are wrong about.

Two - what exactly are you wanting to discuss? The concept of political theatre used to affect the populace is not new. That’s just a fact.  Does our extremely visual digital world make it more so? Sure. For that matter, I think Zelensky is a political genius.  Yes he was a former comedic actor. He was also a lawyer and has a fascinating personal history. He made a tv show where he was President, then started a political party with the same name as the one in the show and then ran for President. And his wife is a screen writer with her own fascinating history.  I am not at all discounting the political theatre is a major impact on people and policies. I’m arguing that 1) that’s not new at all historically (Churchill for example was extremely aware of it.) and 2) that Zelensky is a pro at it.  Honestly I can think of no one currently in power that is in his league in this regard. And it may very well save his country.

and either 2b or 3)

It is not just young people demanding more actual military involvement due to Zelensky’s theatre - Germany and the Sweden and others agree and are sending that outside military aid. Thank God. The point of political theatre (regardless of the platform it plays out in) is to get an actual material result.

And to be clear, I do not think that Zelensky’s theatre is insincere at all. That he knows the value of his imagery and voice in the digital theatre doesn’t mean he is wrong or “playing” us.  

[AmandaVT]

1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

The news channels get former generals and admirals on to talk about strategy. They're literally the experts. They might be wrong sometimes, but they've spent many years planning for a war like this as their day job. That's not the same as some random vet spouting off on YouTube or Facebook.

I think it's better to read the news rather than watch it. It's much less triggering and you can step back and google things that you want to know more about. As long as you check poster's background, Twitter can be a gold mine of information and analysis from non-telegenic experts who will dive deeper into topics they know well.

I'm a reader and DH is a watcher. BBC is the best right now for TV news. No hysterics or drama. 

[Pawz4me]

This from the NYT re Putin's nuclear weapons threat--

Quote

The White House avoided a heated response to President Vladimir V. Putin’s announcement that he was putting Russia’s nuclear forces on alert, casting it as another example of Mr. Putin’s moves to imagine a threat and escalate the confrontation with the West.

Officials were still debating whether to alter the status of American nuclear forces. But for now, according to two government officials, they were trying to avoid being lured into a spiral of escalation, taking the position that American nuclear forces are on a constant low level of alert that is sufficient to deter Russian use of nuclear weapons.

“At no point has Russia been under threat from NATO,” Jen Psaki, the White House press secretary, said on Sunday after Mr. Putin ordered the alert. “We have the ability to defend ourselves.”

But the longer-term U.S. response will almost certainly depend on what the Russian nuclear forces do in the next several days, as the commanders of the Russian strategic forces try to demonstrate that they are responding to Mr. Putin’s vaguely worded order, delivered for the cameras, to move “Russia’s deterrence forces” to a level of “special combat readiness.”

Both countries have various levels of alert, and it was unclear how Mr. Putin’s wording would be translated by the forces.

A vast nuclear-detection apparatus run by the United States and its allies monitors Russia’s nuclear forces at all times, and experts said they would not be surprised to see Russian bombers taken out of their hangars and loaded with nuclear weapons, or nuclear-equipped submarines leave port and head out to sea.

Both Russia and the U.S. conduct drills that replicate various levels of nuclear alert status, so the choreography of such moves is well understood by both sides. A deviation from usual practice would almost certainly be noticeable.

 

[Ting Tang]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

This from the NYT re Putin's nuclear weapons threat--

 

Thanks for sharing. That is a good explanation with regard to a response.  

[Bootsie]

DD is in grad school in Austria.  The university has set up a care center for its Ukranian students and their families.  She has a number of friends who are Ukranian.  Last year she did a major project, paper and presentation, with Ukranian student about the race to space during the Cold War in which DD used English language resources and the Ukranian student used Russian language resources.  The Ukranian student was adamant that Russia was a serious threat to Ukraine. 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

7 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m in the in between.  Dh and I are going out today. Our family has always had emergency plans. We have recently reviewed/tweaked them. They remain unlikely to be needed *today*. But thinking it through when it’s not needed is what makes it more doable if it ever is. In the meantime, it’s a thought exercise, and handy for any NORMAL emergency that might come up.

We are in the same boat. Not making any rash  decisions, but having lots of discussions & reprioritizing some goals we already had.

Ordering a replacement refrigerator now rather than in a few months to get ahead of the next wave of delays. Making room in our garage to keep the old unit, rather than having it recycled, so that we can stock up on if we find good deals.

Purchasing a fireproof / waterproof case to keep important documents in, as well as some additional cash (interest rates are so depressed that we’re hardly missing out). 

Keeping vehicles well-fueled & discussing the circumstances under which we’d start to pull back from extracurricular activities, dining out, & other activities in order to limit expenses. 

Building a small stockpile of shelf-stable pantry goods. Slowly shifting toward using more vegetables / legumes / eggs & less meat.