Latest Falwell Jr. interview and Holy Post Link for Feb. 2

[HS Mom in NC]

ETA-Holy Post Feb. 2: https://www.holypost.com/holy-post-podcast/episode/29ed7fa7/episode-494-falwell-fallout-and-how-not-to-read-the-bible-with-dan-kimball

OP-Want to talk about this?
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/inside-jerry-falwell-jr-unlikely-rise-and-precipitous-fall

Edited February 2, 2022 by HS Mom in NC

[Starr]

So he is the poor mistreated one?

[HS Mom in NC]

5 minutes ago, Starr said:

So he is the poor mistreated one?

I know, right?  Ok, Jr., you aren't religious.  Man up, tell Mommy and Daddy so and go make your own money/fame/power instead of riding on Daddy's celebrity coat tails and the perks that come with it. It's bad enough that Sr. was The Great Pimp who whored the name of Jesus Christ for political power. 

[Katy]

Classic narcissism 

[Faith-manor]

So to sum it up. Playboy blames every bad decision he ever made on mommy and daddy, but particularly mommy, and then his whole world comes crashing down because wifey poo, and he was in bed with scam bag Michael Cohen, and he needed to self destruct in order to leave daddy's business so he could be his own man, and woe is poor Jerry but none of it is really his fault.

My eyes rolled so hard, they may have herniated!

Same old schtick!

Bonus ridiculous points for thinking that listening to Rush Limbaugh's narcissistic raving on talk radio makes him sound sincere.

I have a feeling that Granda's book and Hulu movie is going to be like a few episodes from The Tiger King! 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Eos]

I had to read the whole thing, I couldn't look away.  Ick.  Beyond ick: power, money, and a university.  It's like reading about the end of the Roman Empire.

It's also a mystery - if you were going to try to rehabilitate your despicable reputation, why liberal Vanity Fair?  Because the libs will be reading Pool Boy's book?

I'm calling it "pre-habilitation."

Edited January 25, 2022 by Eos

[historically accurate]

He is the definition of Smarmy.

[Starr]

And now he thinks organized religion is bad. What a guy.

[Garga]

Eh, he’s just a shyster. A con man. He’s never been religious, but just pretended to be for the money. 

[Frances]

It definitely helped me understand his presidential endorsement, talk about two peas in a pod. Maybe you have to give him props for basically admitting he was and still is a terrible person. Maybe I missed it, but there’s nothing redeeming at all about him in the article except perhaps that he forgave his wife and they are still married?

[Faith-manor]

16 minutes ago, Frances said:

It definitely helped me understand his presidential endorsement, talk about two peas in a pod. Maybe you have to give him props for basically admitting he was and still is a terrible person. Maybe I missed it, but there’s nothing redeeming at all about him in the article except perhaps that he forgave his wife and they are still married?

LOL, I don't think still being married is a positive. They seem like a very toxic kind of couple. Maybe they should go their separate ways and straighten up!

[Danae]

29 minutes ago, Frances said:

It definitely helped me understand his presidential endorsement, talk about two peas in a pod. Maybe you have to give him props for basically admitting he was and still is a terrible person. Maybe I missed it, but there’s nothing redeeming at all about him in the article except perhaps that he forgave his wife and they are still married?

That’s assuming their version of the story is true and he wasn’t involved in the affair from the beginning.  If the other guy’s story is true then she’s taking the fall for him.

[Faith-manor]

36 minutes ago, Danae said:

That’s assuming their version of the story is true and he wasn’t involved in the affair from the beginning.  If the other guy’s story is true then she’s taking the fall for him.

I think she is taking the fall.

[DawnM]

Gross.   Josh Duggar vibes.

[Grace Hopper]

52 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think she is taking the fall.

Or got pushed. 

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Gross.   Josh Duggar vibes.

Definitely! And Jack Schapp, and Doug Phillips, and Doug Wilsom, and R.C. Sproul Jr., and Ravi Zacharias, and ......quite the club they have going!

[R828]

3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Definitely! And Jack Schapp, and Doug Phillips, and Doug Wilsom, and R.C. Sproul Jr., and Ravi Zacharias, and ......quite the club they have going!

I just googled Doug Wilson because I’ve heard so many negative comments about him recently. Oh my. This is his latest blog post. https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-natural-use-of-the-woman.html
 

First I was horrified, but by the end of it I was giggling. The man is completely insane. As a Christian who only moved to the US later in life, ‘American Christianity’ never ceases to surprise me. 

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, R828 said:

I just googled Doug Wilson because I’ve heard so many negative comments about him recently. Oh my. This is his latest blog post. https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-natural-use-of-the-woman.html
 

First I was horrified, but by the end of it I was giggling. The man is completely insane. As a Christian who only moved to the US later in life, ‘American Christianity’ never ceases to surprise me. 

Sadly, he is worse than this blog would suggest. He protected a serial pedophioe, someone authorities estimated had over 100 victims of which only 30ish were identified, and then convinced a family in the church to marry their college age daughter to him (at his church he advocates for arranged marriages only) figuring that if he had a female to sexually abuse it would cure him of his desire to rape children. The couple promptly had a baby, and he molested his infant child. Wilson is says she should not divorce him.

Beyond that, he is also pro slavery. Anyone who buys Omnibus history from Veritas Press is actively supporting Doug Wilson.

He is more than insane. He is positively evil!

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, R828 said:

I just googled Doug Wilson because I’ve heard so many negative comments about him recently. Oh my. This is his latest blog post. https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-natural-use-of-the-woman.html
 

First I was horrified, but by the end of it I was giggling. The man is completely insane. As a Christian who only moved to the US later in life, ‘American Christianity’ never ceases to surprise me. 

What I thought was clever with his post is that he includes lots of ideas about society that many agree with, including some that I agree with.  But there is more than enough there that I totally disagree with.  Doug Wilson is most well known for requiring a young lady to marry a rapist or child molester ( can't remember the actual facts right now) and her parents agreed.

[TravelingChris]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Sadly, he is worse than this blog would suggest. He protected a serial pedophioe, someone authorities estimated had over 100 victims of which only 30ish were identified, and then convinced a family in the church to marry their college age daughter to him (at his church he advocates for arranged marriages only) figuring that if he had a female to sexually abuse it would cure him of his desire to rape children. The couple promptly had a baby, and he molested his infant child. Wilson is says she should not divorce him.

Beyond that, he is also pro slavery. Anyone who buys Omnibus history from Veritas Press is actively supporting Doug Wilson.

He is more than insane. He is positively evil!

Yes

 I knew he was evil and just didn't remember all the details.

[TechWife]

6 hours ago, R828 said:

I just googled Doug Wilson because I’ve heard so many negative comments about him recently. Oh my. This is his latest blog post. https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-natural-use-of-the-woman.html
 

First I was horrified, but by the end of it I was giggling. The man is completely insane. As a Christian who only moved to the US later in life, ‘American Christianity’ never ceases to surprise me. 

I could not even make it to the end. It’s so bizarre. My first exposure to him was 20 years ago when ds was in a “classical  Christian school” for a few years. He was nuts then, he’s nuts now. Sadly, he’s a dangerous nut. 

[lauraw4321]

I LOLed when I got to the part where he has beef with Franklin Graham. They are both parodies of themselves. 

[fairfarmhand]

I must say I despise Christian organization that allow sons to pick up the mantle of the father. If (huge if) a young man whose father is a minister is also called to ministry, I strongly feel he should minister away from his father. Give him a chance to learn from God and not his earthly father.

[Cordelia]

There's a huge difference between being called to ministry and inheriting a ministry. Jerry Jr. inherited a ministry, and he really shouldn't have. 

What astounds me is how he could have jumped ship years ago if he wasn't a true believer, and yet he didn't do it. He could have spared the Liberty community so much drama if he had just been honest with his parents and refused to take the Liberty job. 

I don't know why Jerry Jr. thinks he's the victim here. Ugh. 

[KungFuPanda]

15 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Definitely! And Jack Schapp, and Doug Phillips, and Doug Wilsom, and R.C. Sproul Jr., and Ravi Zacharias, and ......quite the club they have going!

Don’t forget Jack Hyles. If you’ve never listened to the Leaving Eden podcast, you may want to check out their two-part series on The First Family of Fundamentalism.  If you’ve never watched video of Jack Schaap’s Polished Shaft sermon it is SOOOO WTF. 

[Faith-manor]

49 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Don’t forget Jack Hyles. If you’ve never listened to the Leaving Eden podcast, you may want to check out their two-part series on The First Family of Fundamentalism.  If you’ve never watched video of Jack Schaap’s Polished Shaft sermon it is SOOOO WTF. 

Unfortunately, there are so many of these slimes, that I can't keep track of them all from memory. Hyles is disguting, and then oh from that same area, Bill Hybles (?).

[Frances]

5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I must say I despise Christian organization that allow sons to pick up the mantle of the father. If (huge if) a young man whose father is a minister is also called to ministry, I strongly feel he should minister away from his father. Give him a chance to learn from God and not his earthly father.

Although I’m no longer a Christian, I have to say that I don’t understand why some Christian groups turn their leaders into stars. It just seems like it’s asking for trouble to elevate any human to that level of stardom, respect, and adoration based on their religious leadership. Not to mention the financial perks that often accompany such notoriety.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Frances

[Cordelia]

3 hours ago, Frances said:

Although I’m no longer a Christian, I have to say that I don’t understand why some Christian groups turn their leaders into stars. It just seems like it’s asking for trouble to elevate any human to that level of stardom, respect, and adoration based on their religious leadership. Not to mention the financial perks that often accompany such notoriety.

People I know seem to be leaning away from the celebrity pastor thing. Personally, my favorite thing about my pastor is his humility. He's very down to earth and not attention seeking at all, and I really respect that. I also go to a small church, for what it's worth. 

[livetoread]

5 hours ago, Frances said:

Although I’m no longer a Christian, I have to say that I don’t understand why some Christian groups turn their leaders into stars. It just seems like it’s asking for trouble to elevate any human to that level of stardom, respect, and adoration based on their religious leadership. Not to mention the financial perks that often accompany such notoriety.

Yes, I just assume there are the mega pastors who have been caught in a scandal and then there are those who will be caught shortly. Not sure there are any other categories.

[GracieJane]

There is an omission so glaring that I had to read it twice: why are they still happily married? This woman had a multiple-year affair with another man (some visits even occurred while Falwell Jr. was in the room!) and the reporter apparently doesn’t find it noteworthy? There is a psychological defense occurring here, which means that whatever actually happened is worse for Falwell than publicly being cheated for 7 years by his wife, losing his career and being made a public spectacle. 

[klmama]

4 hours ago, Cordelia said:

People I know seem to be leaning away from the celebrity pastor thing. Personally, my favorite thing about my pastor is his humility. He's very down to earth and not attention seeking at all, and I really respect that. I also go to a small church, for what it's worth. 

I attend a large church with multiple campuses and video venues, but the pastors are still all very humble.  They take turns preaching, so no one is seen as "the star," and they are very down-to-earth, genuine people.  They just want to help others come to Christ and grow in their faith.  It makes me sad that everyone doesn't get to experience such great church leadership.  

[Harriet Vane]

2 hours ago, GracieJane said:

There is an omission so glaring that I had to read it twice: why are they still happily married? This woman had a multiple-year affair with another man (some visits even occurred while Falwell Jr. was in the room!) and the reporter apparently doesn’t find it noteworthy? There is a psychological defense occurring here, which means that whatever actually happened is worse for Falwell than publicly being cheated for 7 years by his wife, losing his career and being made a public spectacle. 

Just want to clarify--this was a threesome. There is ample documentation of that. They BOTH chose to break the bonds of their marriage. He was a full participant in this, not some victim of an affair.

[Cordelia]

5 hours ago, klmama said:

I attend a large church with multiple campuses and video venues, but the pastors are still all very humble.  They take turns preaching, so no one is seen as "the star," and they are very down-to-earth, genuine people.  They just want to help others come to Christ and grow in their faith.  It makes me sad that everyone doesn't get to experience such great church leadership.  

I have trust issues due to some previous church experiences.

The reason my current church works for me is because I'm able to truly know my pastor. 

YMMV, of course. 

[Faith-manor]

7 hours ago, GracieJane said:

There is an omission so glaring that I had to read it twice: why are they still happily married? This woman had a multiple-year affair with another man (some visits even occurred while Falwell Jr. was in the room!) and the reporter apparently doesn’t find it noteworthy? There is a psychological defense occurring here, which means that whatever actually happened is worse for Falwell than publicly being cheated for 7 years by his wife, losing his career and being made a public spectacle. 

The third person in all this says he has proof that it was Falwell's idea, and he was involved in the whole thing sexually. So someone in this threesome is lying. It will be interesting to see what comes of the book and Hulu documentary. My guess is the truth is a mishmash of bits and pieces of the Falwell's version, and Giancarlo as version mixed with some sort of hash of whatever Michael Cohen says. Just a big steaming pile of manure. So yes, I agree that whatever the nitty gritty was, it is far worse than what has been admitted to because why bother paying for "The Fixer", ie Cohen? He could have just said, " My wife has been having a raging affair, and I am leaving her." In fundie, mega church world, he would have been considered a victim of a shrew, and the divorce would have been fine. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/jerry-becki-falwell-affair-giancarlo-granda-trump/2020/09/18/456a1568-eccc-11ea-b4bc-3a2098fc73d4_story.html  According to this, there is video/photo proof that Falwell is lying about his role. 

Of course there was also the alcoholism. The 911 call she made when he was unconscious from alcohol poisoning points to a major substance abuse issue.

There is just a lot of rotting fish smell with this one! I think this interview was a way to try to get out ahead of the book and documentary with their cleaned up version of this.

[klmama]

5 hours ago, Cordelia said:

I have trust issues due to some previous church experiences.

The reason my current church works for me is because I'm able to truly know my pastor. 

YMMV, of course. 

I'm so sorry you had that experience.  I'm glad your current church is a good fit. 

Perhaps it's just that we've been there over 20 years, going back to when it was a church of only 300, but I have never had any difficulty in getting to know anyone on the church staff I wanted to know better.  They are very accessible to everyone and are extremely transparent about their struggles and failures.  

[kbutton]

On 1/25/2022 at 2:14 AM, R828 said:

As a Christian who only moved to the US later in life, ‘American Christianity’ never ceases to surprise me. 

I can only imagine! 

On 1/25/2022 at 2:41 PM, Cordelia said:

What astounds me is how he could have jumped ship years ago if he wasn't a true believer, and yet he didn't do it. He could have spared the Liberty community so much drama if he had just been honest with his parents and refused to take the Liberty job. 

The stories coming out of a local Christian school seem to suggest that people really can live with tons of cognitive dissonance.

When people seeking a Christian education for their kids dip a toe in the waters and then warn you that there is nothing there of benefit for your kids...it's just a mess. This particular local school isn't known for scandal, but it's my understanding that there are a lot of social class issues (not uncommon in other private schools, from what I understand), and then they have a lot of people willing to put up with the Christian aspect to get their kids out of public schools that might institute a mask mandate from time to time when numbers are high (very few in our area have required masks for students old enough to be vaccinated, and many aren't requiring them at all). It's just a service to them. Then there have always been parents who think that putting their kids in a Christian school will fix whatever they see as wrong with their kids--I think Jerry Jr. saw that market opportunity (and maybe was the market--sounds like he was stuck going there even if he didn't personally want to be there or espouse the values). 

Some schools are better than others about not allowing themselves to be used this way. 

There have also been articles out in recent months about how many people increasingly identify as Christian (in spite of not attending church or espousing Christian doctrine) literally because they follow certain politicians who claim to be Christians.

We live in a weird, weird moment that I think is going to get weirder.

19 hours ago, Cordelia said:

People I know seem to be leaning away from the celebrity pastor thing. Personally, my favorite thing about my pastor is his humility. He's very down to earth and not attention seeking at all, and I really respect that. I also go to a small church, for what it's worth. 

Before the celebrity pastor, certain programs/people/books/schools were used to gauge "faithfulness," and I think celebrity pastors are simply a reflection of that. 

[HS Mom in NC]

Today's Holy Post with David French on this topic: https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-falwell-the-fruit-of-evangelical-leadership

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, HS Mom in NC said:

Today's Holy Post with David French on this topic: https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-falwell-the-fruit-of-evangelical-leadership

Thanks for this! I'm behind on my podcast listening, so Ill check this one out!

[kbutton]

Russell Moore touched on the topic in his newsletter as well. I can’t link because it’s not a blog.

His take was on a more personal note of whether we’re attune to those around us; he laments (to some extent), not taking time to try to ask him some questions while realizing he didn’t have a “speak into his life” relationship with him either.

It was kind and specific without letting Falwell off the hook. 

[Grace Hopper]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:45 AM, HS Mom in NC said:

Today's Holy Post with David French on this topic: https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-falwell-the-fruit-of-evangelical-leadership

Just got around to listening and was going to post this! It explains a lot without letting Falwell (or Liberty U board members) off the hook. 

[Grace Hopper]

On 1/28/2022 at 12:28 PM, kbutton said:

Russell Moore touched on the topic in his newsletter as well. I can’t link because it’s not a blog.

His take was on a more personal note of whether we’re attune to those around us; he laments (to some extent), not taking time to try to ask him some questions while realizing he didn’t have a “speak into his life” relationship with him either.

It was kind and specific without letting Falwell off the hook. 

❤️Russell Moore. He speaks truth that validates yet doesn’t fail to convict me when I need to think more gracefully. 

[kbutton]

David French has an article today that is a spinoff of this whole issue: https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/why-christians-bond-with-corrupt?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMTQ1MDQxOSwicG9zdF9pZCI6NDc5MTU2NTYsIl8iOiJLODV5UyIsImlhdCI6MTY0MzU3NTI5NSwiZXhwIjoxNjQzNTc4ODk1LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjE3NjUiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.8NZoZNtRNqn7LT0d2mc5K7Dao-FQD5R9qYYOAqByuKk

It's likely paywalled, but I think I still have at least three month-long free subscriptions to The Dispatch to give away. If anyone is interested, just PM me a personal e-mail address. I will give them out first come, first served. 

[kbutton]

I haven't read this yet, but here is a piece from Russell Moore on CT that is adapted from his newsletter: https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/january-web-only/jerry-falwell-liberty-controversy-vanity-fair-hypocrisy.html

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I won't be able to listen to this until lunch EST, but I wanted to link it so we can all discuss it ASAP.

Here's the latest Holy Post released today: https://www.holypost.com/holy-post-podcast/episode/29ed7fa7/episode-494-falwell-fallout-and-how-not-to-read-the-bible-with-dan-kimball

[Frances]

Hulu now has a documentary featuring the young man who had the affair with the Falwells.

 

[Faith-manor]

35 minutes ago, Frances said:

Hulu now has a documentary featuring the young man who had the affair with the Falwells.

 

Whoo boy, that should be a wild ride!

[kbutton]

15 hours ago, Frances said:

Hulu now has a documentary featuring the young man who had the affair with the Falwells.

 

I knew it was coming out soon. I kind of want to see it and kind of don't. Sigh. 

Do you know anything about the filmmaker's reliability? I haven't looked to see who made it.

[Frances]

13 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I knew it was coming out soon. I kind of want to see it and kind of don't. Sigh. 

Do you know anything about the filmmaker's reliability? I haven't looked to see who made it.

No, I don’t. I actually watched it last night. It left me feel pretty bad for the young man, they basically abused him. But I also admired his courage in coming forward and exposing all of the lies and hypocrisy. Interestingly, one of his major motivations for agreeing to be part of the Reuters investigative report that broke the story wide open was seeing all of the devastating national consequences of Falwell having been a king maker through his endorsement of Trump and wanting to put an end to his ability to do something similar again. When he first met the Falwells, he was actually very similar to them politically, having been raised in a conservative Cuban Catholic family. But as he got to know them better and they showed their true colors as they acquired more power and influence once their candidate was the president, he realized he fundamentally disagreed with them on almost everything, that it was all about power, money, and influence, and the foundation was lies and hypocrisy.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Frances

[kbutton]

42 minutes ago, Frances said:

But as he got to know them better and they showed their true colors as they acquired more power and influence once their candidate was the president, he realized he fundamentally disagreed with them on almost everything, that it was all about power, money, and influence, and the foundation was lies and hypocrisy.

It looked like it might go more broadly that way vs. just focusing on the salacious gossipy stuff. 

[Frances]

12 minutes ago, kbutton said:

It looked like it might go more broadly that way vs. just focusing on the salacious gossipy stuff. 

It definitely got more broad and more political as it went on (primarily due to Trump entering the picture; he met Trump and Michael Cohen through the Falwells), even looking back at historical stuff related to evangelicals such as their response to ending segregated public schools, their changed views on abortion once they realized what an effective wedge issue it was, the Moral Majority, etc.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Frances