My ramblings about KFC and their suspicious new nuggets

[Indigo Blue]

I want to preface by saying I do stand for humane treatment of animals and anything we can do to that end is a step in the right direction.  I ,myself, am not  perfect in practicing what I believe, but my heart is in it and I am trying to be more conscious of things and putting my beliefs into actual practice. 

Having said that, I just need to say that the new KFC plant-based chicken bucket is so…..weird….

I get that it’s good that it exists so people can have that choice, but can’t you see the hilarity in this? A KFC bucket full of battered, greasy-looking nuggets made from plants? I don’t see it as a health food, but I’m sure the idea behind that could be, in part, to give the illusion that it is. KFC doesn’t care about anyone’s health. They would sell deep-fried cow patties if people would buy them. Southern-fried liars if you ask me. Right, @Scarlett? A KFC bucket of chicken full of plants… It’s just so comical to me, coming from them.

Again, I DO support plant-based meat. But this....from a place that exists solely for the purpose of selling fried chicken…I’m having a hard time articulating exactly why, but it’s just….I don’t know…throwing plant nuggets in a KFC bucket….it just gets me. 

Ok. I’m ranting a bit. Just my weird thoughts for the day. If this will benefit animals, then I’m all for it. Whatever gets us there. Have all the rubbery KFC chicken plant nuggets you want. 
 

Now, the new Chipotle chorizo on the other hand….that looks good. And I’m no where as suspicious of them as I am of KFC. 
 

 

[Katy]

I’m sure it was because Burger King’s vegan burger did so well. I tried one of those, thought it was surprisingly meat-like, and THEN looked at the nutrition information. It had MORE saturated fat than their regular burger.  

[wintermom]

Just out of curiosity, what's the difference between deep-fried potatoes and deep-fried plant-based chicken nuggets? Perhaps they simply changed the shape and "rebranded" the exact same product. Sounds like the cheapest option to me, but there may be even cheaper plants than potatoes that can be deep-fried without turning to mush. 😉 

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I want to preface by saying I do stand for humane treatment of animals and anything we can do to that end is a step in the right direction.  I ,myself, am not  perfect in practicing what I believe, but my heart is in it and I am trying to be more conscious of things and putting my beliefs into actual practice. 

Having said that, I just need to say that the new KFC plant-based chicken bucket is so…..weird….

I get that it’s good that it exists so people can have that choice, but can’t you see the hilarity in this? A KFC bucket full of battered, greasy-looking nuggets made from plants? I don’t see it as a health food, but I’m sure the idea behind that could be, in part, to give the illusion that it is. KFC doesn’t care about anyone’s health. They would sell deep-fried cow patties if people would buy them. Southern-fried liars if you ask me. Right, @Scarlett? A KFC bucket of chicken full of plants… It’s just so comical to me, coming from them.

Again, I DO support plant-based meat. But this....from a place that exists solely for the purpose of selling fried chicken…I’m having a hard time articulating exactly why, but it’s just….I don’t know…throwing plant nuggets in a KFC bucket….it just gets me. 

Ok. I’m ranting a bit. Just my weird thoughts for the day. If this will benefit animals, then I’m all for it. Whatever gets us there. Have all the rubbery KFC chicken plant nuggets you want. 
 

Now, the new Chipotle chorizo on the other hand….that looks good. And I’m no where as suspicious of them as I am of KFC. 
 

 

😂 that is hilarious. Well, I trust almost zero corporations because their goal is to make money. I also would rather have a salad than something like what you described……and what exactly is in this new nugget?

[Indigo Blue]

I’d rather have a salad, too. I think those nuggets are actually Beyond brand, but I’m not positive about that. 

[Selkie]

I think it's great. KFC is an awful corporation and the nuggets are surely not perfect from a nutritional standpoint. But they are meant for the people who want to do better for animals and the planet, but aren't quite ready to give up their usual comfort foods. I personally don't eat the Beyond/Impossible type products, but I love that they exist. They are like a gateway food for people who are trying to change their ways in a more positive direction.

[Idalou]

Not sure I'm seeing the weird factor that's tickling your funny bone. And no, they do not exist solely for the purpose of selling chicken. They exist to make a profit, and if fake chicken that tastes like their KFC vision of heavenly goodness sells, then so be it. It's a fast food chain like all others that sells the usual unhealthy variety of  fast food. Their chicken has always been on the greasy side. People are not going there because they think dang, KFC has some of the best tasting chicken meat. They're known for the taste of the fried, crispy skin and coating. Many still admire that flavor but prefer not to get it from deep fried skin and meat. Vegetarians differ in taste preferences as do carnivores. Their plant nuggets apparently have a good, greasy crispy flavor that compliments what others like about KFC foods.

I don't pay attention to commercials. Do these places advertise them as being mire healthy? I think the fake burgers have less cholesterol but nothing much else. In my memory, I think BK just hyped that you couldn't tell the difference in taste. But I believe they fried them on the same grill, so...

I've had the Beyond brand burgers and chicken(store brand) as well as national store brands of other fake meat types. I don't think they're actually 'there' yet on flavor, but textures are very close. Burger flavors appear easier to match than chicken. I think within the next few years it will be virtually impossible to tell differences on items like that.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Idalou

[LuvToRead]

I'm not sure anyone actually thinks these are healthy????  It's just another option.  It may give families who have a mix of omnivores and vegans another place they can eat together.  Fast food restaurants are always trying something new and I think this is just one of those things.  If it works they will keep it on the menu, and if it doesn't it will disappear. 

[Idalou]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

😂 that is hilarious. Well, I trust almost zero corporations because their goal is to make money. I also would rather have a salad than something like what you described……and what exactly is in this new nugget?

It's the Beyond brand. They sell burger patties, ground packages, breakfast sausages, etc. There are a few other brands that do the same for fake- chicken, fish, beeftips, ham, bacon, and roast. My local grocery has a huge section. I've tried most, liked most of that. They're not identical, but I think they will be shortly. Some brands are definitely better. It was a good step for us between being meat eaters and non. At Easter we had ham for some relatives and the fake version for us. It's a good idea for people who want to eat less cholesterol, or for those who are strict vegetarians but their kids wanted to feel like other kids when they have cook outs or go to a fast food restaurant. I will say that my dogs will turn their noses up at our leftovers. No begging at the table, yay!!

Edited January 16, 2022 by Idalou

[Pam in CT]

Eh.  I guess my view is, you could take the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle I'm currently working on, coat them with egg, drench them with cajun-spiced bread crumbs, fry them up good, and serve them with a heavy cream dipping sauce, and they'd be delicious.

Healthy, obviously not, but tasty.  Anything can be delicious if it's deep fried beyond recognition.

 

There are multiple perspectives that affect "healthy."  Calories v fat v cholesterol (which kind of cholesterol), whole food v highly processed/artificial ingredients, and etc.

Then there are different multiple perspectives that affect "sustainable."  Plant- v animal-based/within animal-based how high up the food chain, conventional v organic/within organic what monoculture /soil replenishment/ water practices are being used, what transportation/ distribution practices are being used, how products are packaged.

Then within animal-based food here are different multiple perspectives on what is "humane." Quality of life v quality of death.

And then there is price, the ONLY element that is truly transparent all the way down to the consumer.

 

And these factors don't pull the same direction. 

Impossible Burgers are -- shockingly-- delicious!  But not healthy: highly processed, artificial ingredients, laden with fat, no information about land use or water.  Packaged in 3 layers of plastic clamshells that will sit in landfills for thousands of years. And in my area, 2x the cost of burger.

Avocados are delicious and unprocessed whole food!  But not sustainable: sucking up water in a state that doesn't have nearly enough, carefully packed in plastic molds, transported refrigerated and as fast as possible across great distances so they can be sold before they turn.

Eggs are delicious and endlessly flexible and cheap!  But loaded with cholesterol and not, in America at least, humanely produced.

There is a meat supplier a good friend of mine uses, from whom I (rarely) order beef, that is kosher-ly slaughtered AND grass-fed AND outdoor-range AND organic.  But not sustainable: beef is way up the food chain, vastly more land to sustain the equivalent calories to chicken or Impossible Burger, no matter how wonderfully managed. And: it's $35++/ pound.

 

So you pick a handful of selection priorities that align with particular values /health concerns/ financial/ lifestyle issues -- animal welfare, packaging, cholesterol, convenience, low-cost, whatever -- and do the best you can.

My youngest prioritizes animal welfare > just about everything else. She eats a fair amount of highly processed stuff that seem sort of gross to me.  But then, I eat chicken whose quality of life and quality of death seem totally gross to her. My husband does not even register how food is packaged -- he comes home from Costco with these enormous plastic clamshells for APPLES that drive me out of my mind.  But he's constantly turning over my salad dressings and prepared sauces and noting the fat content.

 

 

 

 

 

[Idalou]

14 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Eh.  I guess my view is, you could take the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle I'm currently working on, coat them with egg, drench them with cajun-spiced bread crumbs, fry them up good, and serve them with a heavy cream dipping sauce, and they'd be delicious.

Healthy, obviously not, but tasty.  Anything can be delicious if it's deep fried beyond recognition.

 

 

Did you ever watch Second City TV? They had one skit called The Grapes of Mud( wrath) in which a couple characters talked about what they hungered for, and then went on and on about chicken fried stuff?  It's a classic SCTV

Edited January 16, 2022 by Idalou

[TravelingChris]

I don't like any fake food.  No fake sugar, no margarine, no fake meat, no fake milk, none of that.  As long as no one is forcing me to eat any of that- I don't care what others eat.

[Indigo Blue]

46 minutes ago, LuvToRead said:

I'm not sure anyone actually thinks these are healthy????  It's just another option.  It may give families who have a mix of omnivores and vegans another place they can eat together.  Fast food restaurants are always trying something new and I think this is just one of those things.  If it works they will keep it on the menu, and if it doesn't it will disappear. 

I tend to agree with this, especially the bolded.

[Indigo Blue]

54 minutes ago, Idalou said:

Not sure I'm seeing the weird factor that's tickling your funny bone.

Because I have a weird sense of humor. Also can’t really explain why I think it’s funny. It just is. 
 

But I’m glad these exist as an option for people!

[Idalou]

19 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Because I have a weird sense of humor. Also can’t really explain why I think it’s funny. It just is. 
 

But I’m glad these exist as an option for people!

 I remember some article about logical fallacy biotruths in regards as to what we're meant to eat. It asked that in the future, will people say that in this time period of the 21st century, people had the longest lifespans, etc, so we should eat as they ate.  Bring back those fast food goodies, our bodies were meant for that!

Edited January 16, 2022 by Idalou

[BusyMom5]

I don’t like pretend-foods- if you don't want to eat meat, that's your choice- but why eat meat-like things?  I feel the same about fake dairy (and my DH drinks soy and I've had to go DF while nursing a few years at a time).  Most dairy substitutes are just 🤮   I'd rather have no cheese than fake cheese.  I once tried to make myself a dairy-free pumpkin pie 🥧   The kids still laugh about it!  I try to eat less-processed items.  I'm not perfect,  but after reading all kinds of things over the years, this is what I've settled on.  Our beef is purchased off a farm, we raise our eggs from our backyard flock, and harvest deer from our farm.  Its the best I can do.  I do get tired of the plastic packaging on EVERYTHING.   Drives me bananas and I feel like there isn't a lot I can do about it.  

One thing I think is forgotten is the pesticides and herbicides used to from soy.   I live hear soy farmers- that stuff washes right down the Mississippi and into the gulf!  Kills lots of plant snd animal marine life!

[lauraw4321]

I support anything that reduces consumption of meat from commercial farming. So I think it’s great. I hope meat alternatives and lab meat continue to grow in popularity. 

[Selkie]

17 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I don’t like pretend-foods- if you don't want to eat meat, that's your choice- but why eat meat-like things?  I feel the same about fake dairy (and my DH drinks soy and I've had to go DF while nursing a few years at a time).  Most dairy substitutes are just 🤮   I'd rather have no cheese than fake cheese.  I once tried to make myself a dairy-free pumpkin pie 🥧   The kids still laugh about it!  I try to eat less-processed items.  I'm not perfect,  but after reading all kinds of things over the years, this is what I've settled on.  Our beef is purchased off a farm, we raise our eggs from our backyard flock, and harvest deer from our farm.  Its the best I can do.  I do get tired of the plastic packaging on EVERYTHING.   Drives me bananas and I feel like there isn't a lot I can do about it.  

One thing I think is forgotten is the pesticides and herbicides used to from soy.   I live hear soy farmers- that stuff washes right down the Mississippi and into the gulf!  Kills lots of plant snd animal marine life!

Regarding the damage caused by soy farming - the vast majority of soy that is grown is used as animal feed by the meat, dairy, and egg industries. Only a tiny fraction of it is used to make food for vegetarians and vegans.

[Jean in Newcastle]

All businesses want to increase their target demographic if possible. It doesn’t seem weird to me. (Though I can’t eat there safely. Very little gluten free options. ). 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

One thing I think is forgotten is the pesticides and herbicides used to from soy.   I live hear soy farmers- that stuff washes right down the Mississippi and into the gulf!  Kills lots of plant snd animal marine life!

Most of the soy is not consumed by people who avoid animal products.
Almost 80% of the soy production is used to feed animals for the meat and dairy industry. 

ETA: Oops, just saw that Selkie beat me to that. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by regentrude

[Carrie12345]

I don’t go to KFC because I like chicken.   
I go to KFC 2 or 3 times a year because I like KFC seasoning. 

I wouldn’t order plant based fast food because it’s any sort of health food. I would order it because I didn’t want meat, but wanted the greasy, fatty, seasoned yumminess. 
(I haven’t tried it yet.)

Remember when we all realized how unhealthy McDonalds salads were?

No one should be going fast food for health. Guilty pleasures only!

[Spryte]

3 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t go to KFC because I like chicken.   
I go to KFC 2 or 3 times a year because I like KFC seasoning. 

I wouldn’t order plant based fast food because it’s any sort of health food. I would order it because I didn’t want meat, but wanted the greasy, fatty, seasoned yumminess. 
(I haven’t tried it yet.)

Remember when we all realized how unhealthy McDonalds salads were?

No one should be going fast food for health. Guilty pleasures only!

This. I can’t eat KFC because gluten, but if I could, and when I did, it was a junk food thing. No delusions about healthiness!

I was vegetarian till in my 40s, and totally think I might have tried the nuggets at least once. I didn’t care for most meat substitutes back then, but it was nice to have options. I did occasionally have sides from KFC back then!

I do see the humor, though, and love that OP called the nuggets “suspicious” … made me laugh!

[Danae]

2 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

 I once tried to make myself a dairy-free pumpkin pie 🥧   The kids still laugh about it! 

I have a recipe for pumpkin pie made with coconut milk and Indian spices.  It’s fantastic.

[Pam in CT]

2 minutes ago, Danae said:

I have a recipe for pumpkin pie made with coconut milk and Indian spices.  It’s fantastic.

Yeah, I totally buy that. If it's linkable, please link.

[Danae]

5 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Yeah, I totally buy that. If it's linkable, please link.

I can’t find a link, but it’s pretty much the recipe on the Libby’s canned pumpkin label except trade coconut milk for the evaporated milk and replace all the spices except the ginger with 2-3 Tbs Garam Masala.  I often use fresh ginger instead of powdered for a little extra zing. 

[El...]

6 minutes ago, Danae said:

I can’t find a link, but it’s pretty much the recipe on the Libby’s canned pumpkin label except trade coconut milk for the evaporated milk and replace all the spices except the ginger with 2-3 Tbs Garam Masala.  I often use fresh ginger instead of powdered for a little extra zing. 

That sounds amazing!

[Spryte]

35 minutes ago, Danae said:

I have a recipe for pumpkin pie made with coconut milk and Indian spices.  It’s fantastic.

Please share! Dairy allergic family here!

 

Oops! I see you did! Thanks!

Edited January 16, 2022 by Spryte

[regentrude]

The irony is that these plant based nuggets aren't actually suitable for vegans and vegetarians - because KFC fries them in the same fryer as the chicken ones. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by regentrude

[TravelingChris]

58 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t go to KFC because I like chicken.   
I go to KFC 2 or 3 times a year because I like KFC seasoning. 

I wouldn’t order plant based fast food because it’s any sort of health food. I would order it because I didn’t want meat, but wanted the greasy, fatty, seasoned yumminess. 
(I haven’t tried it yet.)

Remember when we all realized how unhealthy McDonalds salads were?

No one should be going fast food for health. Guilty pleasures only!

I have been to KFC once as a teenager and never again.

But I do go to Chick Fil A and get healthy food, normally=  I get the Market Salad, normally.

[regentrude]

slight tangent. Term "fake foods" got me musing: 
why is soy bean curd considered a fake food by many while cow's milk inoculated with mold spores that are left to grow is seen as a normal and delicious food? 
Or why is grinding grains into a powder, mixing it with water, adding a fungus that creates carbonation, and baking said mixture at high temperatures not considered "processed"?

Edited January 16, 2022 by regentrude

[LuvToRead]

7 minutes ago, regentrude said:

The irony is that these plant based nuggets aren't actually suitable for vegans and vegetarians - because KFC fries them in the same fryer as the chicken ones. 

I was actually wondering about this.  So cross contamination of a meat product with a vegan product can make the vegan product un-vegan? 

[regentrude]

Just now, LuvToRead said:

I was actually wondering about this.  So cross contamination of a meat product with a vegan product can make the vegan product un-vegan? 

 My vegan loved ones would consider food that is fried in oil in which chicken particles are swimming definitely not as vegan.

(At communal grilling places, I have seen certain bbq grills reserved for vegetarian foods only.)

[Selkie]

7 minutes ago, regentrude said:

slight tangent. Term "fake foods" got me musing: 
why is soy bean curd considered a fake food by many while cow's milk inoculated with mold spores that are left to grow is seen as a normal and delicious food? 
Or why is grinding grains into a powder, mixing it with water, adding a fungus that creates carbonation, and baking said mixture at high temperatures not considered "processed"?

To your first question - many people never question what they’ve been brought up to believe is “normal”. I’ve heard people say a burger made from beans is “gross” as they are eating a hot dog made from the anuses, lips, and ears of dead animals. Makes no sense to me.

[Corraleno]

4 minutes ago, LuvToRead said:

I was actually wondering about this.  So cross contamination of a meat product with a vegan product can make the vegan product un-vegan? 

That really depends on the individual. Some vegans consider anything with palm oil not vegan because of the effect on orangutan populations. Some vegans won't eat anything with sugar unless the package explicitly states that the sugar is not made with bone char (organic sugar doesn't use it, so organic is ok), while others happily eat Oreos and other sugary sweets as long as the ingredients don't specifically list animal products. Some vegans won't eat anything cooked on the same equipment as animal products but other vegans think that's fine and PETA's official stance is that it's not a problem since does not cause the death of additional animals. There are also vegans who vigorously object to the term "vegan diet," and insist that unless someone is 100% vegan in all aspects of life then they can't use the term vegan and should just refer to their diet as plant based, and others who call themselves vegan while wearing leather and occasionally having a bite of nonvegan birthday cake. There's a pretty broad spectrum.

[LuvToRead]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

That really depends on the individual. Some vegans consider anything with palm oil not vegan because of the effect on orangutan populations. Some vegans won't eat anything with sugar unless the package explicitly states that the sugar is not made with bone char (organic sugar doesn't use it, so organic is ok), while others happily eat Oreos and other sugary sweets as long as the ingredients don't specifically list animal products. Some vegans won't eat anything cooked on the same equipment as animal products but other vegans think that's fine and PETA's official stance is that it's not a problem since does not cause the death of additional anvegans who vigorously object to the term "vegan diet," and insist that unless someone is 100% vegan in all aspects of life then they can't use the term vegan and should just refer to their diet as plant based, and others who call themselves vegan while wearing leather and occasionally having a bite of nonvegan birthday cake. There's a pretty broad spectrum.

Thank you!  I have a vegan friend who will wear leather as long as it comes from a 2nd hand shop.  So i know it does vary but I never considered frying vegan food in the same fryer. 

[Pam in CT]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

The irony is that these plant based nuggets aren't actually suitable for vegans and vegetarians - because KFC fries them in the same fryer as the chicken ones. 

LOL is that really true??

If so it will *considerably* dampen demand for the product, and either KFC will get another fryer and do a bit o'marketing... or they'll discontinue the product.

(No, that kind of cross contamination definitely does not cut it with a great many vegetarians or vegans.)

 

To the admittedly chemistry-random line around what constitutes "fake food" -- I like the Michael Pollack principle, would this be recognizable to your great grandmother, or at least *somebody's* great grandmother.  So yeast, definitely yes; yogurt, definitely yes; tofu also yes (maybe not for MY OWN gg, but someone's).  Engineered out of plant-product sausage, no; dehydrated "mashed" potatoes, no; Impossible Burger (though delicious!), no.  Admittedly rather squishy/ debatable, but that's kinda how I draw it.

 

The thing about deep-fried-beyond-recognition food is... that's basically been done since the invention of oil, right?  Isn't the idea of pakora basically "take all the random leftover bits it's time to get rid of, dredge in well-spiced flour, deep fry until unrecognizable, and serve with sauce?"

I mean, even okra is yummy when prepared this way.   (RUNNING AWAY WITH ARMS OVER MY HEAD...)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Pam in CT
omitted word

[regentrude]

56 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

LOL is that really true??

"

KFC, however, issued a caveat on the news release: The nuggets are “not prepared in vegan/vegetarian manner.”

“All KFC ingredients, including Beyond Fried Chicken, are handled by employees in common fryers, which may not be acceptable to certain types of vegetarian or vegan diets,” said KFC spokeswoman Cortney Haygood."

[Selkie]

I doubt any hardcore vegans are going to eat at KFC anyway. I wouldn't even go in a KFC, just because the sights and smells would be so unpleasant. I think these nuggets are aimed at the ever increasing ranks of people who are dipping their toes into plant based eating but aren't fully committed yet.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Selkie

[Indigo Blue]

This may not be true, but I heard somewhere that KFC would fry the plant nuggets in a separate fryer if requested. If that’s true, that means I could ask them to fry me up some greasy gluten free seasoned fries on the rare occasion.
 

I didn’t know a vegan might not want to eat cross contaminated plant nuggets. I learned this just recently. 

[mathnerd]

19 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

This may not be true, but I heard somewhere that KFC would fry the plant nuggets in a separate fryer if requested. If that’s true, that means I could ask them to fry me up some greasy gluten free seasoned fries on the rare occasion.
 

I didn’t know a vegan might not want to eat cross contaminated plant nuggets. I learned this just recently. 

I was just going to post that they have been refusing to use a separate fryer for the vegan chicken nuggets according to some people who tried to ask for it ... (personally, I would not eat anything cooked on the same surface used for meat prep or meat cooking)

Edited January 16, 2022 by mathnerd

[Indigo Blue]

I’m having a hard time following the logic on this…if a person is serious enough about following a vegan diet that they go so far as to request a separate fryer (and I’m not judging those that avoid cross contamination issues with food strictly because of their ethics), why would they even be patronizing a place like KFC to begin with? Honestly asking.

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, LuvToRead said:

Thank you!  I have a vegan friend who will wear leather as long as it comes from a 2nd hand shop.  

Same with wool and silk — some will wear it as long as it's second-hand and some won't wear any leather, wool, or silk under any circumstances and believe that those who do (even if bought second-hand) are not vegans because "it's a worldview not a diet." So if you're not 100% vegan in every aspect of life then you're not a vegan, you're just a plant-based eater. 

[Carrie12345]

48 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I doubt any hardcore vegans are going to eat at KFC anyway. I wouldn't even go in a KFC, just because the sights and smells would be so unpleasant. I think these nuggets are aimed at the ever increasing ranks of people who are dipping their toes into plant based eating but aren't fully committed yet.

It’s probably also good for people like posters here who have been wanting to reduce their meat intake but not go full vegetarian, those that have divided households, and those who want to use their dollars to encourage and normalize plant based options.  Progress is always slow. Supporting it helps.

Personally, I don’t eat any meat that’s still on a bone. It’s not as much of an ethics thing for me as it is a yuck factor.  When my family gets the occasional bucket of chicken, I tend to get nuggets. I’ll likely get the plant ones, since I’m only there for the flavor, anyway.

[Corraleno]

I eat a fully plant-based diet, and I don't have any issue with eating food cooked on the same equipment that was used for animal products. It doesn't cause any additional suffering or death for animals, it doesn't cause any additional environmental damage or use additional resources (and you could argue that it prevents the waste of resources by not requiring two separate fryers full of oil, etc.), and it doesn't make plant-based food less healthy to be cooked next to animal-based food (and if you're eating fast food, health isn't the reason you're there anyway).

A lot of commercial vegan food is made by companies that also produce nonvegan food and likely come into contact with nonvegan ingredients at some point. Even totally "unprocessed" whole fruit can be coated with wax that may contain beeswax or shellac (which comes from beetles). Unless people are growing their own food and milling their own flour from very carefully sifted and washed grain, they are consuming fragments of bugs, rodent hairs, and worse, with nearly every meal, so the idea that plant-based food that's cooked next to animal-based food isn't vegan because it may contain a few molecules from an animal products seems like unnecessary "legalism" to me.

I saw an interview the other day in which a vegan activist said that insisting on perfection only hurts the movement, and that 10 imperfect vegans will save more lives than 1 perfect one. I'm not a fan of PETA, but I think this statement is spot on:

"Some packaged foods have a long list of ingredients. The farther an ingredient is down the list, the less of that ingredient is in the food. People who have made the compassionate decision to stop eating animal flesh, eggs, and dairy products may wonder if they need to read every ingredient to check for tiny amounts of obscure animal products. Our general advice is not to worry too much about doing this. The goal of being vegan is to help animals and reduce suffering; this is done by choosing a bean burrito or a veggie burger over chicken flesh, or choosing tofu scramble over eggs, not by refusing to eat an otherwise vegan food because it has 0.001 grams of monoglycerides that may possibly be animal-derived.

We discourage vegans from grilling waiters at restaurants about micro-ingredients in vegan foods (e.g., a tiny bit of a dairy product in the bun of a veggie burger). Doing so makes being vegan seem difficult and dogmatic to your friends and to restaurant staff, thus discouraging them from going vegan themselves (which really hurts animals). And we urge vegans not to insist that their food be cooked on equipment separate from that used to cook meat; doing so doesn’t help any additional animals, and it only makes restaurants less inclined to offer vegan choices (which, again, hurts animals)."

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Corraleno

[regentrude]

42 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I eat a fully plant-based diet, and I don't understand the issue with eating food cooked on the same equipment that was used for animal products. It doesn't cause any additional suffering or death for animals, it doesn't cause any additional environmental damage or use additional resources (and you could argue that it prevents the waste of resources by not requiring two separate fryers full of oil, etc.), and it doesn't make plant-based food less healthy to be cooked next to animal-based food (and if you're eating fast food, health isn't the reason you're there anyway).

But some vegans just find meat gross and the thought of ingesting chicken particles on their plant-based food revolting.

They may be fully aware that they don't contribute to the suffering of animals - but the mere thought of consuming animal substance may be off-putting. Happy to ask my vegan DD specifically. I am pretty sure that for her bf who hasn't ever eaten animal flesh in his life (except maybe for the rare instance of being pranked), the idea would be just yucky.

Eta: frying in oil isn't "cooking next to" . The plant based food literally swims in a vat with chicken crumbs. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by regentrude

[Elizabeth86]

I was saying the same exact thing to dh earlier.

[TravelingChris]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

slight tangent. Term "fake foods" got me musing: 
why is soy bean curd considered a fake food by many while cow's milk inoculated with mold spores that are left to grow is seen as a normal and delicious food? 
Or why is grinding grains into a powder, mixing it with water, adding a fungus that creates carbonation, and baking said mixture at high temperatures not considered "processed"?

I don't have a problem with soy bean curd or soy bean anything.  Calling something a soy burger is fine.  Just like hamburger means beef burger,  chicken burger means chicken meat is used,  salmon burger has salmon flesh, etc. 

Calling something a vegan egg is nonssense.  I don't know what it is but it isn't a chicken egg, duck egg, etc.  It isn't any sort of egg.  Call it an egg substitute.  Call a vegan cheese, a cheese substitute.  

I am not against having processed foods--- yes, bread and yogurt are processed- though often minimally.  But vegan yogurt is processed and not a yogurt-at best it is a yogurt substitute.  The fake milk people label their fake milk=almond milk, etc  So should all the other substitutes.

[TravelingChris]

5 hours ago, LuvToRead said:

I was actually wondering about this.  So cross contamination of a meat product with a vegan product can make the vegan product un-vegan? 

My son is not a vegan nor a vegetarian but he does have a mammal meat allergy due to tick bites (he had one and got the allergy and then he had a second one and his allergy got even worse).  He can't eat fries cooked in hamburger oil.  I don't think he eats at fast food restaurants because of the cross contamination.  He may have stopped eating at restaurants altogether- I am not sure but I think he has had to because of so much cross contamination.

[YaelAldrich]

3 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I was just going to post that they have been refusing to use a separate fryer for the vegan chicken nuggets according to some people who tried to ask for it ... (personally, I would not eat anything cooked on the same surface used for meat prep or meat cooking)

Wait? You will not eat food cooked in CLEAN pots and pans (or ovens) that once cooked flesh/egg/milk/whatever not vegan food in it? Meaning you only eat in other vegan's homes (who were always vegan)? And you don't eat in vegan restaurants unless you can ascertain that the pots (etc) were only ever used in vegan cooking?

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

But some vegans just find meat gross and the thought of ingesting chicken particles on their plant-based food revolting.

I understand that some people might find the idea gross, I just think that's a personal choice and those people don't get to define what does or doesn't count as "vegan" for everyone else. I don't think most vegans believe that vegan food instantly becomes "nonvegan" if it happens to come into contact with a fryer, grill, utensil, or human hand that also touched nonvegan food. By that definition only restaurants that are 100% vegan 100% of the time can offer vegan food, because the odds are that at some point someone who touched a beef burger is going to touch the veggie burger, and ice cream places couldn't offer vegan options unless they're stored in separate cases and served with scoops that are always kept separate, and no products made with commercially processed flour could ever be labeled vegan, because nearly all grain and flour has contact with, and may contain fragments of, dead insects and rodents, and no vegan could eat fruit without first checking that the company did not use any beeswax or shellac in the coating, etc.

There are a lot of different places you could legitimately draw a line between vegan and nonvegan, and at some point the obsession with "purity" just becomes counter productive.  I follow a lot of vegan bloggers and recipe developers and I see a lot of harsh comments from people who seem super invested in making sure that  no one can call themselves vegan unless they follow the strictest and most exclusive principles in every aspect of life. And I think that's just really counterproductive and unhelpful and turns people off instead of encouraging more people to reduce animal products.

Personally I don't eat mock meats, and I think everything at KFC is gross, but I'm really glad that fast food companies and other major food conglomerates are starting to offer more and more plant-based alternatives, because in the long run that is mostly a good thing for animals and the planet, even if the companies making them are motivated by nothing more than increased profits. The more widely available it is, the more normalized and acceptable it will become and the easier it will be for people to move in that direction.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Corraleno