Book recs: middle life stuff

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I’m feeling a little down but I think it’s a lot of watching my husband get promotions and such while I worked part time for most of the last ten years while tending to special needs kids.  I’m working full time now to pay off some debt and now it’s starting to really bother me that he was able to do a lot while I made dinner. 

I think it’s mostly midlife stuff, looking at my life and trying to figure out what I’m going to do at 40.  And how I got here. And if I made the right choices along the way. 
Any memoirs? Fiction books? Maybe even a self help or two, but I think i just want to know I’m not the only one vs practical ideas(because really, I’m being kind of silly about it).

I think 40 is just hitting me hard. I’ve accomplished exactly nothing I thought I would. But I do have three pretty awesome kids. 🙂

 

[fraidycat]

Laura in Scotland just recommended a book a week or two ago that really resonated.

More Than a Woman by Caitlin Moran. 

I will try to find the thread and link it.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 minute ago, fraidycat said:

Laura in Scotland just recommended a book a week or two ago that really resonated.

More Than a Woman by Caitlin Moran. 

I will try to find the thread and link it.

Oh! I did get that one. I forgot to include that.

i really enjoyed it, which made me wonder what else might be out there that people enjoyed.  I trust the WTM hive recommendations more than Google.

[Storygirl]

I don't have a book recommendation for you, but I just wanted to chime in and say that you aren't the only one.

I have not felt this way in comparison to my husband, but I have definitely felt this way in comparison to my other friends who remained on their career path, while I stayed home with my kids. I WANTED to be a stay-at-home mom. I always wanted it, from the time that I was little. But still, seeing the impressive career success of those who were at the same point as I was in my twenties, doing the kind of publishing jobs that I would have loved to do, had I stayed in the workplace -- it stings. Cooking dinner and cleaning house has not given me the same fulfillment that editing books would have. And raising my kids has been HARD. I highly value the time that I have spent with my kids, for their sake, but parenting has not felt fulfilling for me, in the way that I expected it to.

I believe in my heart that what I've done with my life has been very valuable. But I don't feel a sense of personal accomplishment or success, and sometimes I feel the path that I didn't take as a loss. If I had to do it all again, I would still choose to focus on family over career; I don't think it was a mistake. But I do need to find a way to replenish my own well, so that I can feel that I am spending the days of my life in more meaningful ways.

This may be a middle age thing. I'm over 50, but I've definitely felt this way for the past decade.

[ScoutTN]

19 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I don't have a book recommendation for you, but I just wanted to chime in and say that you aren't the only one.

I have not felt this way in comparison to my husband, but I have definitely felt this way in comparison to my other friends who remained on their career path, while I stayed home with my kids. I WANTED to be a stay-at-home mom. I always wanted it, from the time that I was little. But still, seeing the impressive career success of those who were at the same point as I was in my twenties, doing the kind of publishing jobs that I would have loved to do, had I stayed in the workplace -- it stings. Cooking dinner and cleaning house has not given me the same fulfillment that editing books would have. And raising my kids has been HARD. I highly value the time that I have spent with my kids, for their sake, but parenting has not felt fulfilling for me, in the way that I expected it to.

I believe in my heart that what I've done with my life has been very valuable. But I don't feel a sense of personal accomplishment or success, and sometimes I feel the path that I didn't take as a loss. If I had to do it all again, I would still choose to focus on family over career; I don't think it was a mistake. But I do need to find a way to replenish my own well, so that I can feel that I am spending the days of my life in more meaningful ways.

This may be a middle age thing. I'm over 50, but I've definitely felt this way for the past decade.

Eloquently said! 
I am right there too.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

DH and I work at the same company, which is one reason it rankles a bit. But since coming back full time it’s started to really irritate me that my immediate supervisors are around 10 years younger and have significantly less experience than I do.  One of them I literally BABYSAT as a child.

And my husband is an excellent paramedic, has a great reputation and is certainly an awesome operations supervisor.  But he got to do that because I stayed home and worked part time, so he could work the crazy hours without thinking twice.  And yes. It bothers me just a little.

I could honestly request a promotion and would probably get it, but I have a dumb desire to just be recognized for my skills without asking and after we sell one of our houses and pay off some medical bills I will probably drop back to part time again anyway.

I’m feeling old and unaccomplished. I just want to hear other’s voices and not feel so alone. ❤️❤️❤️

[wintermom]

Anyone who steps off the "career ladder" for a significant length of time or has a delayed start could face these "set backs" or delays in advancement. Carers, olympic athletes, travellers, college/university students (compared to those who start directly into a job that doesn't require a degree) are a few examples. We all make choices that have concequences.

I always felt a little philosophically about the "career ladder" as being the limited pathway, compared to the pathway I chose (caring for the children, doing some travelling, advancing my education). The career ladder is not exactly the most varied and exciting thing in life - to be at the same company doing roughly the same job. There has to be some reward for sticking around. 

My dh stuck around at his job, through a lot of crappy supervisors and coworkers, and I'm amazed and proud that he could do that. I wouldn't have been able to navigate that. 

Maybe an interesting book suggestion for you would be "Siddhartha," the guy who left his wife and child behind on a spiritual journey to search for self-discovery. As a teen, I thought this seemed pretty self-sacrificing and nobel, but as a wife and mother I think it was very selfish and pointless. Had he stayed at home, supported his wife and child by staying on the "career ladder" he would not have started a world religion, but he would have been more noble in my eyes. 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by wintermom

[Jaybee]

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but at a point when we were going through major transition that was rather unexpected, I ran across this book by Paul David Tripp, Lost in the Middle (Christian perspective). https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Middle-Midlife-Grace-God/dp/0972304681/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KMGXWSJ669A9&keywords=lost+in+the+middle+paul+david+tripp&qid=1641747197&sprefix=lost+in+the+middle%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-1

While I was already past "middle age" (in my mid-fifties), I found it greatly helpful. It was thought-provoking and also helped me reframe some things. I think it is a good book for anyone for whom life is looking a lot different than one expected, no matter what age.

ETA: For that last sentence, I'd even say "for whom life is looking different." No need to add "a lot," because I think very few of us have everything in life turn out just how we wanted/expected.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Jaybee

[Carol in Cal.]

It kind of reminds me of The Problem That Has No Name but on a lesser level than the pure housewife vs. career version in “The Feminine Mystique.”  The older novels that dealt with this are fairly bleak.  “The Women’s Room” and “Decades” come to mind.

A side note based on your OP:  I would strongly suggest going ahead and asking for that promotion.  I am about 20 years older than you, and I learned through observation that one of the main differences between men and women is that men ask for things they don’t deserve, but women don’t ask for anything.  That is part of the wage gap issue for sure. The sooner you get the promotion the sooner you will get a higher salary, etc.  Timing accelerates you income for the rest of your career.  Go for it!

[regentrude]

No book recommendation.  I read oodles of books and found them mostly simplistic and not helpful. 
BTDT. Kept working part time, but stepped off career ladder. Never regretted doing that, because it greatly improved our family's quality of life and enabled me to homeschool - but boy, did I have a midlife crisis big time. (Like you, my DH and I work in the same department. He's recognized as an outstanding scholar. I "just teach".)

What helped me was to deliberately explore, over the course of a year, what I would like to do in my next phase. I was a tad older, almost 50, but with the life expectancy of women in my family, I knew there was a good chance for another forty years. That can't just be whiled away doing the same old. During that year, I said yes to every new thing and tried a bunch of new experiences - not to see if any of those were "it", but to shake things lose in the brain and break out of the old molds of thinking. It led to me completely redefining myself, re-evaluating the role my paid job plays in my life, and thriving in a pursuit I had been passionate about since childhood.

Go ahead and ask for the promotion, and do spend some time thinking hard about what would make you feel fulfilled. Then see if you can slowly work towards that.

Quote

And if I made the right choices along the way. 

I honestly think this is is a waste of time. You made the choices that felt right to you at the given moment with the information you had at that moment. Retroactively re-evaluating is unlikely to accomplish anything. You can't go back and change anything. You can only go forward. 

Best of luck! Midlife crisis is real and painful, but once you work through it, things can get really good.

Edited January 9, 2022 by regentrude

[Melissa Louise]

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/294336/finding-meaning-in-the-second-half-of-life-by-james-hollis/

[plaidpants]

Commiserating. I'm not quite 40, no kids nor married although I dearly want both. Complicated path to finishing a degree and now in a job that while I don't dislike it, it's not where I want to be. Sometimes I see where others my age are in either realm (home/career) and it stings mightily.

[marbel]

11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I honestly think this is is a waste of time. You made the choices that felt right to you at the given moment with the information you had at that moment. Retroactively re-evaluating is unlikely to accomplish anything. You can't go back and change anything. You can only go forward. 

The above quote was about making the right choices along the way.  Oh Regentrude is so right.

My life has been a crazy mess of good times and bad, good decisions and maybe bad ones, but all ones made at the time, thoughtfully and based on the reality of my (and then our, meaning my family) life at the time. Honestly I was always happy being in a supporting role - and I realize that not everyone is, and that's OK, we are both right! - and while there are certainly some things I wish I had done differently, I did them the way I did them. I participated in decisions that in retrospect look like huge mistakes, but, whatever, I/we did it. 

There is nothing wrong with having raised pretty awesome kids, and adding special needs on top of that is a whole 'nother thing. I so so wish our culture valued motherhood more. That is not to say you OP or others in this thread don't, but I think the culture's view of success and accomplishment is so skewed in general. 

But I also agree - look at how you can best move forward. Take some time to think about what you would like your life - and your family's, because they are inextricably entwined, right? - to look like in the next 10, 15, 40 years. And figure out how to move forward from here. Not looking back in regret. 

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, marbel said:

I so so wish our culture valued motherhood more. That is not to say you OP or others in this thread don't, but I think the culture's view of success and accomplishment is so skewed in general. 

I think there are some other aspects that contribute, even if society did put a greater value on motherhood.
Mothering often comes with some degree of loss of self-identity. We tend to identify through our children's successes or challenges, and we can lose our sense of self. I felt that very acutely; when my oldest left home, I felt I had to excavate who I was because that had gotten completely buried under the parenting. So no matter how much external recognition we might receive for mothering, it is accompanied by a loss of identity. For me, the key to handling my midlife crisis was re-covering this identity.

This may perhaps be similar to the struggles persons have who strongly identified through their career (who did receive outside recognition for that) and who fall into a deep crisis when they lose their job or retire - because their identity has been taken away.

Edited January 9, 2022 by regentrude

[Tap]

Not a book recommendation but some BTDT support. I went through this when I was 40ish. I had stayed at my dead end job for 20 years, because it gave me the freedom to care for the kids and still work. I knew I had more to offer than doing the same job any 18yo could do, with a pharmacy tech license. Yep, I was faster so I could complete more prescriptions, and had 20 years of experience to make my job easier, but at the end of the day...we did the same job and it didn't take long before they were paid the same as well.. My xh traveled for work and worked crazy hours. So, I stayed where I was....doing the same job day in and day out, because I had freedom in my schedule and could move my hours around for my kids. 

Once the older kids left home, I knew it was worth it. They are amazing human beings. But there was still the sting left bedind. There were so many personal sacrifices, so many things that I wish I could have been. My kids have great futures ahead of them and I know that I was a big part of that. I try to not live toooo vicariously through them (haha) but really, seeing thier successes, is rewarding to me too. DD23 has serious health struggles and she has learned to do 90% of her self care. I still assist from the side lines, but offer support instead of stepping in like when she was young. DD23 is one of the most tenacious people I know.  She tries so hard! Seeing those traits in her, is what is so rewarding to me. 🙂 She has every right to give up and go on disability. But she refuses and she works so hard to have a normal, albeit modified, life. 

DD14, will never be at that point. She will always need assistance. So, when I started to have more freedom, I looked forward to my career. I have more time now with one kiddo, instead of 3, but she takes up so much more mental energy than than the others did. I still struggle to manage a full time job, and her. She is where I find it hard to appreciate all the work I put in. Because her successes are so small and we are often taking many steps backward before taking one forward. I hope I will someday, see what I have accomplished in her, but I know it may not happen. 

Raising my girls, has taught me so much, that having a narrowly focused career wouldn't have. 

I changed companies a few years ago. To one that has more opportunities, just so I could finally spread my wings a bit. And, all that experience at my old job, finally paid off. Within 2 years, I got a promotion over my coworkers (who had worked there longer) because of my experience and gumption. When I was working part time and raising kids, gumption and tenacity were the traits I was gaining. Schedule management and getting things done despite how many hours there were in a day.  My new employer appreciated the 'over and above' attitude, which to me was 'just doing my job'. And, with that, I started recognizing that those years of being off a career path, had broadened my skills, not weekend them. The trick for me, was getting on with a company, that could see that, and put it to work. 

Due to caring for my daughters, I have way more compassion for my patients than others have, because my family is special needs. I know what it is like to be at the mercy of healthcare workers. I go the extra mile to make sure my patients get what they need and support them along the way. I am more likely to teach my patients to do things on thier own, because I have spent years doing the same with my kids. Sometimes people just need a little extra explanation, or support, but they can do it. They just need a bit more help. I explain the 'why' behind how things are done, and help my patients see ways to overcome obstacles. I will never be at the top of my profession, but what I try to remind myself....Is that in many ways, I am a better technician than most. Because I see things differently; I see the person I am helping. Not just a script count, or some other imaginary marker of success. I help people and that is not a number on a piece of paper, or a grand paycheck !!

Did you know that the vast majority of middle management jobs are nothing more that moving information from one rung of the ladder to the other! And that if they are eliminated, simple emails can do a similar job! The primary role of many middle management jobs, is to move information, delegate jobs, and reformat information for the upper management's rubrics. They are not the ones who impact the people! They are not the ones making life altering decisions. Getting into those middle positions, is not necessarily a success in my book. Rubrics measure increments of success, but only when they are quantifiable. The people you help. The lives you change by holding a hand and giving comfort. The compassion you show. The understanding of pain (physical and emotional) is what you offer to the world. That is not on that rubric. A promotion or raise on a paycheck my be a gold star on a resume, but there are other ways to see your own value!  You just need to look in your own living room for your daily inspiration, in how you are showing your successes!  Your own value to the world is very, very broad! Your impact on every patient you see, every child you help and every moment of joy you feel. Those are not the narrow, rigid rungs of a ladder. The ocean would be nothing without the ever evolving sand to support it. You are that sand. 

So, if you want to see your success. Stop looking up at that ladder! Stop looking for a gold star. Instead, look at the people you have impacted! That is where real success lies. In how you impact the world around you and how you leave it a better place!!

 

[wintermom]

7 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

DH and I work at the same company, which is one reason it rankles a bit. But since coming back full time it’s started to really irritate me that my immediate supervisors are around 10 years younger and have significantly less experience than I do.  One of them I literally BABYSAT as a child.

And my husband is an excellent paramedic, has a great reputation and is certainly an awesome operations supervisor.  But he got to do that because I stayed home and worked part time, so he could work the crazy hours without thinking twice.  And yes. It bothers me just a little.

I could honestly request a promotion and would probably get it, but I have a dumb desire to just be recognized for my skills without asking and after we sell one of our houses and pay off some medical bills I will probably drop back to part time again anyway.

I’m feeling old and unaccomplished. I just want to hear other’s voices and not feel so alone. ❤️❤️❤️

Firstly, you aren't old. 40 is still very young. Secondly, you are accomplished. I don't even know you, but I know you have a graduate degree, which means you have an undergrad, you just published a great article with your sisiter, you have three kids that you homeschooled. Somehow on top of all this you also stayed working part-time at a very demanding and stressful job.

I'm a little confused about what you are trying to prove and to who? Do you not feel worthy? Is there some weird culture in the US that states these things you've done are not actual accomplishments because you don't earn enough money, and you don't have enough seniority at your job? How much money and seniority is "enough?" What do you need to accomplish in order to feel "accomplished?" 

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Firstly, you aren't old. 40 is still very young. Secondly, you are accomplished. I don't even know you, but I know you have a graduate degree, which means you have an undergrad, you just published a great article with your sisiter, you have three kids that you homeschooled. Somehow on top of all this you also stayed working part-time at a very demanding and stressful job.

I'm a little confused about what you are trying to prove and to who? Do you not feel worthy? Is there some weird culture in the US that states these things you've done are not actual accomplishments because you don't earn enough money, and you don't have enough seniority at your job? How much money and seniority is "enough?" What do you need to accomplish in order to feel "accomplished?" 

I am not the OP, but I want to chime in because I can totally relate, and I find your questions unanswerable. I got my PhD at 26, did a postdoc, raised two kids, work as a college professor, homeschooled my kids through highschool- but for most of my life, that did not translate into a sense of accomplishment. To me this was just a thing I did. Something lots of people in my circle did, and many of them with more success.

It wasn't until my mid-forties that I was able to say out loud: I am really good at my job. Because I was always in the position of being not a "real" professor (since I had not research program), being "less than". For me, it has nothing to do with money. I can relate to the OP not wanting to ask for the promotion but wanting to be recognized for her skills (it's just not how this works). The lack of external recognition, the feeling of being seen as "less than" is very hard to shake.

For me, it required digging deep and finding what feeds my soul. Something mothers with young kids don't really have the luxury to do.

[wintermom]

7 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am not the OP, but I want to chime in because I can totally relate, and I find your questions unanswerable. I got my PhD at 26, did a postdoc, raised two kids, work as a college professor, homeschooled my kids through highschool- but for most of my life, that did not translate into a sense of accomplishment. To me this was just a thing I did. Something lots of people in my circle did, and many of them with more success.

It wasn't until my mid-forties that I was able to say out loud: I am really good at my job. Because I was always in the position of being not a "real" professor (since I had not research program), being "less than". For me, it has nothing to do with money. I can relate to the OP not wanting to ask for the promotion but wanting to be recognized for her skills (it's just not how this works). The lack of external recognition, the feeling of being seen as "less than" is very hard to shake.

For me, it required digging deep and finding what feeds my soul. Something mothers with young kids don't really have the luxury to do.

My post was meant for the OP and I chose the exact words and factors she wrote about. Sorry that these questions are unanswerable for you. I was hoping they might be thought providing for the OP. Maybe she does have a certain number of things and/or money she needs to do in order to call herself "accomplished." Maybe she is mis-using the word accomplish? I did mention I was confused. I'm not from the US, so I don't understand the nuances of "the American culture." I'm just a lowly Canadian, and we may have fewer demands and expectations we place on ourselves. I don't really know.

Edited January 10, 2022 by wintermom

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, wintermom said:

My post was meant for the OP and I chose the exact words and factors she wrote about. Sorry that these questions are unanswerable for you. I was hoping they might be thought providing for the OP. Maybe she does have a certain number of things and/or money she needs to do in order to call herself "accomplished." Maybe she is mis-using the word accomplish? I did mention I was confused. I'm not from the US, so I don't understand the nuances of "the American culture." I'm just a lowly Canadian, and we may have fewer demands and expectations we place on ourselves. I don't really know.

I am sorry I answered - I did not mean to offend. I answered because I thought my response might contribute to the conversation and shed some light on how one could feel not-accomplished (despite having attained educational and family goals), and also let the OP know that she is not alone.
I suspect there are many of us who feel the questions are unanswerable. Because if they were, we would know what we would need to feel a sense of accomplishment. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by regentrude

[marbel]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I think there are some other aspects that contribute, even if society did put a greater value on motherhood.
Mothering often comes with some degree of loss of self-identity. We tend to identify through our children's successes or challenges, and we can lose our sense of self. I felt that very acutely; when my oldest left home, I felt I had to excavate who I was because that had gotten completely buried under the parenting. So no matter how much external recognition we might receive for mothering, it is accompanied by a loss of identity. For me, the key to handling my midlife crisis was re-covering this identity.

This may perhaps be similar to the struggles persons have who strongly identified through their career (who did receive outside recognition for that) and who fall into a deep crisis when they lose their job or retire - because their identity has been taken away.

Yes, I can see that too.  

I guess I never felt any loss of identity when I went from working person to mother. I know many people do. But maybe - I don't know, I'm saying maybe - if the current culture valued motherhood more, some people might not feel that loss of identity. Their identity as 'mother' might be enough -- after all, I am my kids' mom, but I am still me. I don't have time to do all the things I might like to do, but no one does, and regardless, I am still me.  So of course not everyone will respond the way I do; we are all different. But culture can play a big part in our own self-image, I think, so it could be a factor for some.  

[wintermom]

16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am sorry I answered - I did not mean to offend. I answered because I thought my response might contribute to the conversation and shed some light on how one could feel not-accomplished (despite having attained educational and family goals), and also let the OP know that she is not alone.
I suspect there are many of us who feel the questions are unanswerable. Because if they were, we would know what we would need to feel a sense of accomplishment. 

I'm not offened. I don't understand your situation any more than I understand the OP's. You have the highest level of education beside a post-doc and still didn't feel accomplished. How do you congratulate someone who has aready succeeded, and it still isn't enough? It leads to the question, what does hold value in your life, or in the life of the OP? From you post, it wasn't actually that you did anything extra to recognize that what you did was of value, it was that you learned to admit to yourself that it was valuable. What made you finally change your mind?

[regentrude]

31 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I'm not offened. I don't understand your situation any more than I understand the OP's. You have the highest level of education beside a post-doc and still didn't feel accomplished. How do you congratulate someone who has aready succeeded, and it still isn't enough? It leads to the question, what does hold value in your life, or in the life of the OP? From you post, it wasn't actually that you did anything extra to recognize that what you did was of value, it was that you learned to admit to yourself that it was valuable. What made you finally change your mind?

Recognizing I am good at what I do is not the same thing as considering what I do an achievement .(Even though I can accept that it is valuable) One can be super good at one's gig and still not achieve what the people around one are achieving. 
Acknowledging that I am really good at what I do came finally with age and simply outgrowing the impostor syndrome when I became jaded enough and had no more figs to give. I still don't see it as a super high achievement, but I am at least able to say that I am good. (Which may be harder for women since we are so conditioned to modesty)

ETA: As I have written in other threads, I would LOVE to have a goal towards which I could strive that would feel like an actual achievement. I just cannot think of anything.
I think the last time I had a sense of accomplishment was when I published my first book. The third book now feels good, but the excitement is nowhere near the level of that first one. Because now I know that there really isn't all that much to it.

ETA: sorry OP- don't mean to hijack your thread. I just spent a lot of time wrestling with midlife crisis and have lots of thoughts, LOL
 

Edited January 10, 2022 by regentrude

[Faith-manor]

10 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I’m feeling a little down but I think it’s a lot of watching my husband get promotions and such while I worked part time for most of the last ten years while tending to special needs kids.  I’m working full time now to pay off some debt and now it’s starting to really bother me that he was able to do a lot while I made dinner. 

I think it’s mostly midlife stuff, looking at my life and trying to figure out what I’m going to do at 40.  And how I got here. And if I made the right choices along the way. 
Any memoirs? Fiction books? Maybe even a self help or two, but I think i just want to know I’m not the only one vs practical ideas(because really, I’m being kind of silly about it).

I think 40 is just hitting me hard. I’ve accomplished exactly nothing I thought I would. But I do have three pretty awesome kids. 🙂

 

I don't have any book recommendations. But so wanted to say I hear you and get it! I never wanted to be a stay at home mom. A very sick six year old who needed to be isolated for two years, my music performance job not providing health insurance so it was the practical choice for me to give up my position to homeschool, the kids getting ahead of their peers and none of the local schools wanting them or even able to provide anything for them necessitating more homeschooling, year after year of my career going no where because I couldn't pursue it while dh kept rising up the ladder of success. Ya. I feel it in my soul. And then when the last one went to college, I nailed a job I loved as a community fine arts program director and music teacher. It was not the dream of a performance career, but it was a great second choice, and I was loving it. Then the pandemic. Donations tanked. The foundation opted not to go forward with any of the covid fairly safe options I put forward. The program was ended, and I was left go. The foundation then gave away the endowment to other charitable organizations, and closed out the board of trustees. There is no hope of getting it back. Schools have been letting their music teachers go, community theater groups in the greater region have dried up. I.have.no.hope.of.having.a.career. I am 53. That was my last chance and covid took it from me. I have some wonderful references from the trustees and my co-workers. But so what!

I 100% get how you feel. I have four wonderful kids and close relationships with them. I now have two grandsons. I am trying to swallow hard, shove the emotions into a black hole, and make myself happy with that.

Many hugs to you!!!

[wintermom]

18 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Recognizing I am good at what I do is not the same thing as considering what I do an achievement .(Even though I can accept that it is valuable) One can be super good at one's gig and still not achieve what the people around one are achieving. 
Acknowledging that I am really good at what I do came finally with age and simply outgrowing the impostor syndrome when I became jaded enough and had no more figs to give. I still don't see it as a super high achievement, but I am at least able to say that I am good. (Which may be harder for women since we are so conditioned to modesty)

ETA: As I have written in other threads, I would LOVE to have a goal towards which I could strive that would feel like an actual achievement. I just cannot think of anything.
I think the last time I had a sense of accomplishment was when I published my first book. The third book now feels good, but the excitement is nowhere near the level of that first one. Because now I know that there really isn't all that much to it.

ETA: sorry OP- don't mean to hijack your thread. I just spent a lot of time wrestling with midlife crisis and have lots of thoughts, LOL
 

Thanks for clarifying. Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. You've reached the 99% percentile of "successful people" and your peers are such a small pool of highly accomplished people that the propability of achieving more then them is extremely slim. You need to find a different pool of people where your skills and experience don't really matter. It may lead to a life of crime or a vastly different lifestyle, though. 😉

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Thanks for clarifying. Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. You've reached the 99% percentile of "successful people" and your peers are such a small pool of highly accomplished people that the propability of achieving more then them is extremely slim. You need to find a different pool of people where your skills and experience don't really matter. It may lead to a life of crime or a vastly different lifestyle, though. 😉

My solution for now is to stop looking for "purpose" or "achievement " and simply seek enjoyment while I demote my job work to simply the thing that earns a pay check and not assign it more importance. For me, that was a radical paradigm shift from the philosophy that one needs to be passionate about work ( something the researchers around me all model, and DH most of all).

So basically hiking and writing are the "real" things that fulfill me; the job gets to take up no more than the space it requires. I am much happier that way. And oh, retirement is going to be such joy ( five years ago, I still said I couldn't imagine ever retiring)

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Thanks for clarifying. Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. You've reached the 99% percentile of "successful people" and your peers are such a small pool of highly accomplished people that the propability of achieving more then them is extremely slim. You need to find a different pool of people where your skills and experience don't really matter. It may lead to a life of crime or a vastly different lifestyle, though. 😉

I know she doesn’t like to toot her own horn, so you may not know this about her, but @regentrude is a very talented poet! (Seriously, her work is amazing!) She has published her own books, and has also been featured in poetry journals and anthologies, as well. I am so envious of her talent!

[wintermom]

8 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I know she doesn’t like to toot her own horn, so you may not know this about her, but @regentrude is a very talented poet! (Seriously, her work is amazing!) She has published her own books, and has also been featured in poetry journals and anthologies, as well. I am so envious of her talent!

This doesn't surprise me at all. She's the "full package" that many people admire and aspire to. 

[Carol in Cal.]

It’s very easy to devalue work that comes easily to someone.  

I used to be like that with project management.  It was so obvious to me if something was ahead or behind schedule and what to do about.  Critical paths were as apparent as the yellow brick road.  It took me a very long time to accept that fact that this was a bit unusual where I worked and that it was actually valuable.  And while I did project management well, sometimes with international coordination, I never was at a level to take on full out program management, so I tended to see this as low level work that for some strange reason earned me a good living.

It took me a long time to value my skills appropriately and truly objectively.

To the OP:  There used to be a saying that I think pertains.  Maybe you have not run across it.  Regarding having it all, it is, “You can have it all, but not all at the same time.”  I think that that is pretty true.  Maybe you’re on the verge of it being time for you to move forward harder into your career.  But if not, given your field I would imagine that there is another time down the road when you will be able to do exactly that, and do extremely well.  And what you have learned and done so far will inform your performance of that work and move you forward faster, I’ll bet.  

 

[wintermom]

13 minutes ago, regentrude said:

My solution for now is to stop looking for "purpose" or "achievement " and simply seek enjoyment while I demote my job work to simply the thing that earns a pay check and not assign it more importance. For me, that was a radical paradigm shift from the philosophy that one needs to be passionate about work ( something the researchers around me all model, and DH most of all).

So basically hiking and writing are the "real" things that fulfill me; the job gets to take up no more than the space it requires. I am much happier that way. And oh, retirement is going to be such joy ( five years ago, I still said I couldn't imagine ever retiring)

That's what I'm doing, too, though I do enjoy many aspects of my job. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

I am not the OP, but I want to chime in because I can totally relate, and I find your questions unanswerable. I got my PhD at 26, did a postdoc, raised two kids, work as a college professor, homeschooled my kids through highschool- but for most of my life, that did not translate into a sense of accomplishment. To me this was just a thing I did. Something lots of people in my circle did, and many of them with more success.

It wasn't until my mid-forties that I was able to say out loud: I am really good at my job. Because I was always in the position of being not a "real" professor (since I had not research program), being "less than". For me, it has nothing to do with money. I can relate to the OP not wanting to ask for the promotion but wanting to be recognized for her skills (it's just not how this works). The lack of external recognition, the feeling of being seen as "less than" is very hard to shake.

For me, it required digging deep and finding what feeds my soul. Something mothers with young kids don't really have the luxury to do.

You articulated exactly what I can’t seem to. I make good money, by all objective standards I am quite good at what I do and accomplished in my field.  I have a personal issue where I can garner national attention but my own company doesn’t recognize what I am good at because I worked mostly part time for years and frankly, because I’m not male.  There’s also an issue where two people I genuinely don’t like and who I have very real problems with how they treat people were promoted, and then I get thinking—what if I had worked full time all these years? What if I’d poured into my career what I helped my husband pour into his?

I am planning on going back to just working  part time once we’ve sold our first house and aren’t holding two mortgages anymore, since my kids are still relatively young(my youngest is only 6), but it all still leaves me with a lot to ponder.   Most of it is probably just a thought experiment, but the road not taken kind of gleams, especially when DH and I started on the same career trajectory and I stepped off 

Objectively, though, I am all kinds of definitions of successful—I think my issue is that I desire recognition from my own company and that just isn’t their thing.  

Edited January 10, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[wintermom]

17 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

You articulated exactly what I can’t seem to. I make good money, by all objective standards I am quite good at what I do and accomplished in my field.  I have a personal issue where I can garner national attention but my own company doesn’t recognize what I am good at because I worked mostly part time for years and frankly, because I’m not male.  There’s also an issue where two people I genuinely don’t like and who I have very real problems with how they treat people were promoted, and then I get thinking—what if I had worked full time all these years? What if I’d poured into my career what I helped my husband pour into his?

I am planning on going back to just working  part time once we’ve sold our first house and aren’t holding two mortgages anymore, since my kids are still relatively young(my youngest is only 6), but it all still leaves me with a lot to ponder.   Most of it is probably just a thought experiment, but the road not taken kind of gleams, especially when DH and I started on the same career trajectory and I stepped off 

Objectively, though, I am all kinds of definitions of successful—I think my issue is that I desire recognition from my own company and that just isn’t their thing.  

Unfortunately, there are lots of smart, driven males and females who've stayed on the career track in male-dominated workplaces that don't always receive recognition. There's just no controlling that. My dh's favourite saying is, "No good deed goes unpunished." You've done all these "good deeds" and you've been expecting good impacts, rather than somehow receiving a kind of "punishment." 

 

[lovinmyboys]

I have been feeling similar and I think it is a combo of turning 40 and my youngest turning 10 (definitely out of little kid stage 😢). I’m going to come back to read all the great replies, but wanted to chime in with two books that I really loved- 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals and No Cure for Being Human. They aren’t exactly mid-life books, but they helped me with some of my thinking about life. I read them both very recently and am already thinking of re-reading them slower and taking notes.

Edited January 10, 2022 by lovinmyboys

[Stacia]

Maybe not exactly the book you're looking for but I will mention Comeback Careers: Stronger, Wiser, Better. I finished it right before the pandemic hit here in the US & things started shutting down. One thing they emphasized in it is "know your worth". Know that the things you did as a mom, caretaker, parent, etc. have value/worth, even if it's not measured that way by so much of American work culture. (Though, I daresay that plenty of people now better realize the value because of pandemic lock-downs, having their dc at home for schooling, etc.)

(I was finally ready to take the next step out, after hsing, getting divorced, etc. Then the pandemic. Plus needing to be a caretaker again in the meantime, this time for my mom. So, I haven't yet really put the info from the book completely into action. Hoping this year is the year for it. I need to go back & look at the book, get my ducks in a row, & really be daring to put myself out there.)

Anyway, I feel you. I'm in my 50s. Feeling a lot of the things already expressed in this thread.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Stacia

[Frances]

I’ll say that my husband and I both choose to be somewhat underemployed and have turned down promotions and stepping stones. We still make plenty of $ and have great benefits and put our energy into time outside of work. My husband chooses to work less than full time, but has a very full and rewarding life pursuing his hobbies and passions. His job is mainly just a vehicle to fund those things. It just seems that so many people that I know that have invested heavily in their careers end up stressed out, burnt out, and resentful.

[Frances]

4 hours ago, wintermom said:

My post was meant for the OP and I chose the exact words and factors she wrote about. Sorry that these questions are unanswerable for you. I was hoping they might be thought providing for the OP. Maybe she does have a certain number of things and/or money she needs to do in order to call herself "accomplished." Maybe she is mis-using the word accomplish? I did mention I was confused. I'm not from the US, so I don't understand the nuances of "the American culture." I'm just a lowly Canadian, and we may have fewer demands and expectations we place on ourselves. I don't really know.

Well I am an American and I’m right there with you. I honestly don’t care about being accomplished, so I probably shouldn’t even be involved on this thread. I suppose some might look at my husband and myself, our multiple degrees, our jobs, the $ we make and think we are accomplished. But who cares? Certainly neither of us. Our happiness and sense of purpose and meaning comes from things outside of our jobs.

[Laura Corin]

5 hours ago, wintermom said:

That's what I'm doing, too, though I do enjoy many aspects of my job. 

Yes. I recently found an old diary with an entry that I wrote when I was 22. It was all about my particular talent for observing and appreciating. I knew it then but forgot.

[Hilltopmom]

I understand where you’re coming from. I went back to teaching public school the year the pandemic started (can you say bad timing?!) and the other teachers my age are now starting retirement count downs. I won’t be retiring for 20 years- and because we adopted infants when our biological children were older, I have grown children now but also a first and third grader. So, I’ll have kids at home for a long time to come.

But I’m still glad I made the decisions we did- not teaching for pay, homeschooling, foster parenting, raising kids with special needs, etc. It just puts me in a different stage of life than the other teachers my age. They’re thinking retirement & I don’t even have tenure yet!

 

[Laura Corin]

12 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I understand where you’re coming from. I went back to teaching public school the year the pandemic started (can you say bad timing?!) and the other teachers my age are now starting retirement count downs. I won’t be retiring for 20 years- and because we adopted infants when our biological children were older, I have grown children now but also a first and third grader. So, I’ll have kids at home for a long time to come.

But I’m still glad I made the decisions we did- not teaching for pay, homeschooling, foster parenting, raising kids with special needs, etc. It just puts me in a different stage of life than the other teachers my age. They’re thinking retirement & I don’t even have tenure yet!

 

I made some choices early on that mean I'll be working much longer than some of my peers.  My best friend from school will be retiring at 60, however, she has worked for the civil service from the age of 22.  She's held interesting and stimulating positions, but she has also had a very long career already.

I did a lot of travelling early on, worked in different places, did different things, home educated the kids...  In a way, I had my retirement in my 20s, and I was aware of that at the time.  I'm just keeping my fingers crossed and trying to improve my odds of being healthy by the time I do retire in just over eight years time.

[Jenny in Florida]

22 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I could honestly request a promotion and would probably get it, but I have a dumb desire to just be recognized for my skills without asking and after we sell one of our houses and pay off some medical bills I will probably drop back to part time again anyway.

I’m feeling old and unaccomplished. I just want to hear other’s voices and not feel so alone. ❤️❤️❤️

I'm older, and I've been struggling with these same issues for the last few years since I started tip-toeing back into paid work after two decades home with kids. 

I've asked the exact same question, by the way, about books and movies and such. When I first went back to work, I was just desperate for media to consume that represented women like me. I found very little. 

The book I'm recommending for you isn't about "the middle," but I found it helpful in terms of framing some work-related stuff: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Machiavelli-for-Women/Stacey-Vanek-Smith/9781982121754 

For example, that concept of just waiting to be recognized and promoted for your skills? Not likely to happen. Research shows that men tend to ask for and receive promotions based on their potential, while women tend to ask for and (sometimes) receive promotions based on their achievements. The lesson is, if you want the promotion, you have to ask.

[Jenny in Florida]

14 hours ago, wintermom said:

Is there some weird culture in the US that states these things you've done are not actual accomplishments because you don't earn enough money, and you don't have enough seniority at your job? How much money and seniority is "enough?" What do you need to accomplish in order to feel "accomplished?" 

I mean, to a certain degree, at least in my world, the answer to that first question is yes. In many circles, "success" and "accomplishment" are measured in salary and titles (and also educational attainment). 

It's not great. It's not healthy. It's not even meaningful, if you take a step back and examine those assumptions, but, for me, at least, it's real.

[Jenny in Florida]

14 hours ago, marbel said:

Yes, I can see that too.  

I guess I never felt any loss of identity when I went from working person to mother. I know many people do. But maybe - I don't know, I'm saying maybe - if the current culture valued motherhood more, some people might not feel that loss of identity. Their identity as 'mother' might be enough -- after all, I am my kids' mom, but I am still me. I don't have time to do all the things I might like to do, but no one does, and regardless, I am still me.  So of course not everyone will respond the way I do; we are all different. But culture can play a big part in our own self-image, I think, so it could be a factor for some.  

I will also say that, I found as long as I was actively mothering and homeschooling, that was "enough" for me. The identity/accomplishment/meaning/purpose crisis hit me after my kids were launched. There I was, in my early 50s, with a good 15+ years of working life left to go, no plans, feeling incredibly behind my age peers, suddenly feeling the impact of all the choices I had made decades before.

[wintermom]

59 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I mean, to a certain degree, at least in my world, the answer to that first question is yes. In many circles, "success" and "accomplishment" are measured in salary and titles (and also educational attainment). 

It's not great. It's not healthy. It's not even meaningful, if you take a step back and examine those assumptions, but, for me, at least, it's real.

Thanks so much for your honesty. I believe in many circles, salary, job titles and education attainment mean a lot in Canada, too, so it's not like the US has a monopoly on this. There's nothing wrong in being honest about it, and wanting to be part of that world.

Where the disconnect seems to happen is when people leave the "rat race," or expected career ladder, for whatever reason (voluntarily or not), then return with frustration that the rat race went on without them. Those who stayed in the trenches of the rat race and progressed in the expected way seems pretty normal. However there are loads of people who don't progress to supervisor level, or who change careers. 

Way back in the 1970s, my mom went from full-time nursing to permanent part-time. Not surprisingly, she was never promoted to supervisor. Even back then, the expected pathway was full-time nursing to reach supervisor level. However, she was able to keep working part-time for decades, bringing in very good money for the family's benefit. 

Not all professions allow for permanent part-time work, and when you have that possibility and you want to take advantage of it, go for it! That a huge benefit. You get to keep learning as your field evoles, you stay in the professional network, you earn money, etc. Just don't expect to be rewarded exactly the same as some full-time employees if that isn't the norm in the field. 

My fleld did not allow for the permanent part-time type of work. It sure would have been nice, but such is life. When I was in a position to get back into the job market I took additional education, tried to reconnect with former colleagues, etc. It took about 3 years to get to the amazing full-time job I have now. I have colleagues and supervisors who are much younger than me, but that is pretty fun. I'm thrilled to be a junior worker-bee without the additional hassles of endless management meetings and budgets. Being free from those responsibilities and simply focusing on the work I love is wonderful!

Edited January 10, 2022 by wintermom