Daunte Wright

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, pinball said:

In your ETA, you mentioned all the things Wright was accused of doing. Are you referring to him?

and the police were attempting to take him “off the streets”

He never should have been killed. Never. 

But people accused of what he has done are taken off the streets thousands of times of year to face the legal ramifications without being hurt or injured or killed.

No, I am not referring to him and I wasn’t referring only to him. We’ve seen Asian people assaulted this year, Ahmad Arbury was killed this way in the last year or so. A SC active duty military guy was just caught on camera shoving some guy down the street this week too. I don’t think it’s especially useful to hyper focus on the culpability of each and every victim when clear patterns exist that are more important WRT preventing these deadly incidents in the first place.

I don’t rightly know all of what Mr. Wright was accused of doing. Truthfully, I refuse to watch another amateur snuff film. I do know that he has just as much right to the presumption of innocence as the officers do, which is to say, blaming an untrained person for their death makes as much sense as blaming a deer for crossing the road and being hit by a car.

There are many ways to effect an arrest. It’s time to reevaluate and change how we go about doing that as well as the reasons why those attempts are even made. Every warrant is not created equal in terms of importance or potential criminality.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[TheReader]

23 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox9.com/news/police-man-assaults-menards-employee-strikes-officer-with-hammer-after-mask-dispute.amp

This happened in Minnesota yesterday. This guy hit a store employee, fled, hit a cop with a hammer, and then dragged the cop down the road while fleeing. He wasn’t shot or tasered. He was white. I don’t think this guy deserves to die but I really wish police would show the same restraint to those who aren’t white.

Agreed. 

I keep thinking back to a few years ago - my son was working summer camp, and drove home LATE one night. Midnight-ish. Exhausted. And on some strong medicines that dilated his pupils, etc. 

So, someone called in a swerving driver, and a police officer caught up to him, pulled him over. First time being pulled over, so he's a nervous wreck. And his pupils are dilated, b/c of the Rx drugs he was on. 

But he's white (Hispanic, but you can't tell; he looks white). 

And the police officer could tell he was ridiculously nervous. Asked him about it. Never screamed, or yelled, or tried to search the car, or anything like that. Asked why he was driving recklessly. Son answered honestly. Tired. Exhausted. First time being pulled over. 

It's dark. It's a fairly lonely stretch of roadway/not a highly populated area. This driver is acting suspicious, swerving, nervous, twitchy. The police officer had every reason to be stressed/nervous/concerned/alarmed about potential risk -- but my son is white. 

The police officer listened. Calmly. Sent him off with a warning, and told him stop in at the gas station &/or Walmart (told him where it was, where to exit, etc.) and get a coffee or other highly caffeinated drink. Wait until he was more awake to go the rest of the way home. To be careful. To not leave so late from camp next time. 

Which is awesome; I'm so grateful. .......but I cannot help reflecting on the fact that, if my son was not white, this could (would??) have gone in such a dramatically different direction. 

Why/how do any of us still think it's okay that there's such disparity??? 

[pinball]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

No, I am not referring to him. I don’t think it’s especially useful to hyper focus on the culpability of each and every victim when clear patterns exist that are more important WRT preventing these deadly incidents.

All murder incidents have been plummeting for decades...police murdering suspects, suspects murdering police, and civilian murder rates.

(I’m using *murder* not in the legal sense)

Until he was killed, everything that happened was reasonable, given the situation. 

Even the idea that he was pulled over for an air freshener from the rear view mirror is reasonable. That impedes vision, and is a safety hazard. Car manufacturers have been working forever to reduce blind spots...and it silly to intentionally create a blind spot in your windshield by hanging something there.

now, I don’t know the accuracy of the being pulled over for the air freshener  story. But even if it was true, he didn’t receive a death sentence bc of an air freshener. 

 

 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

All murder incidents have been plummeting for decades...police murdering suspects, suspects murdering police, and civilian murder rates.

(I’m using *murder* not in the legal sense)

Until he was killed, everything that happened was reasonable, given the situation. 

Even the idea that he was pulled over for an air freshener from the rear view mirror is reasonable. That impedes vision, and is a safety hazard. Car manufacturers have been working forever to reduce blind spots...and it silly to intentionally create a blind spot in your windshield by hanging something there.

now, I don’t know the accuracy of the being pulled over for the air freshener  story. But even if it was true, he didn’t receive a death sentence bc of an air freshener. 

 

 

You stick with that. I’m moving on to the systemic issues these ongoing incidents represent. They are, by far, the more significant threat to me/mine. I have no desire to argue the merits of stopping people for swinging air fresheners.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Fritz]

15 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Nope. I’m simply observing the tendency to give the benefit of positive speculation to LEOs at every turn. When Ashlii Babbitt was killed I was among many to say there was no way the officer would even be charged. The actions were easily justified by the threat posed. This? Not so much. Fair is fair.

Not only was the officer who shot Ashli Babbitt not charged for shooting an unarmed woman, with no verbal warning, we still don't even know this officer's identity. You believe her shooting was justifiable "by the threat she posed", what was the threat?

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Fritz said:

Not only was the officer who shot Ashli Babbitt not charged for shooting an unarmed woman, with no verbal warning, we still don't even know this officer's identity. You believe her shooting was justifiable "by the threat she posed", what was the threat?

The threat was posed by the mob she was leading toward the duly elected senators in the hallway directly behind the officer who shot. You can also hear the insurrectionists on the video shout ‘gun’ before the shooting occurred. Their violence was clearly established by their behavior and the way they wielded their improvised and real weapons. It was a lawless mob seeking to attack high value protectees. Not gonna win that one. Ever. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[pinball]

2 minutes ago, Fritz said:

Not only was the officer who shot Ashli Babbitt not charged for shooting an unarmed woman, with no verbal warning, we still don't even know this officer's identity. You believe her shooting was justifiable "by the threat she posed", what was the threat?

She posed no threat. If she did, the LEOs within arms reach of her would have stopped her by pulling her out of the window.

The officer who shot her is beyond lucky he didn’t end up shooting another LEO.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, pinball said:

She posed no threat. If she did, the LEOs within arms reach of her would have stopped her by pulling her out of the window.

The officer who shot her is beyond lucky he didn’t end up shooting another LEO.

This is hilarious. The woman at the front of an angry mob, visibly breaking the law, actively climbing through a broken window, attacking Congress, was no threat? I really do need to stop now. Stuff like this reveals all to clearly how the perception of risk/threat is based more on appearance than behavior. 🤣

Edited April 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Fritz said:

Not only was the officer who shot Ashli Babbitt not charged for shooting an unarmed woman, with no verbal warning, we still don't even know this officer's identity. You believe her shooting was justifiable "by the threat she posed", what was the threat?

I am gobsmacked if you are being serious here.  She was part of a violent mob smashing through the doors where the top leaders of the government were being ushered to safety.  

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, pinball said:

She posed no threat. If she did, the LEOs within arms reach of her would have stopped her by pulling her out of the window.

The officer who shot her is beyond lucky he didn’t end up shooting another LEO.

You mean the LEOs who were being crushed  by that violent crowd?  

[bibiche]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This is hilarious. The woman at the front of an angry mob, visibly breaking the law, actively climbing through a broken window, attacking Congress, was no threat? 🤣

Don’t be silly! Did you not see her lily white complexion? And c’mon, what’s a little insurrection? It’s not as if she was driving while Black or anything. Sheesh.🙄 

[Fritz]

22 hours ago, Danae said:

 

There have been enough instances caught on video of people doing everything they are told, or trying to when given conflicting instructions, and still getting shot to make this statement laughable.  It isn't the people being killed who have the responsibility to de-escalate.  It's the literal job of the people with the guns and badges.

You are right, it is their job and there have been incidents when people have been shot even when complying, but statistically those that comply are likely to have a better outcome. 

[pinball]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

You mean the LEOs who were being crushed  by that violent crowd?  

No, there were no LEOs being crushed at that door.

they stood by as the windows were being smashed

https://nypost.com/2021/01/07/videos-show-shooting-of-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-siege/

 

[TheReader]

5 minutes ago, Fritz said:

You are right, it is their job and there have been incidents when people have been shot even when complying, but statistically those that comply are likely to have a better outcome. 

One thing I'll add about that.....the better outcome is sometimes, for POC, that they survive the initial encounter, and then end up with a harsher jail sentence, or even a wrongful conviction, because they comply, comply, comply, all the way to a guilty verdict. 

I can only imagine that is part of the underlying fear a POC feels during encounters with LEOs. 

[Scarlett]

11 minutes ago, pinball said:

No, there were no LEOs being crushed at that door.

they stood by as the windows were being smashed

https://nypost.com/2021/01/07/videos-show-shooting-of-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-siege/

 

So do you think the officers outside should have shot her and the others to keep them from moving forward toward the members of Congress?  

I really can't even believe you are saying she posed 'no threat'.  If she was by herself, maybe not.  But she was part of a very dangerous and threatening crowd.  I think I have even lost sight of your point.

[WildflowerMom]

I haven't watched the news in a while and I don't want to watch the video of this.   Can anyone tell me if dispatch told Potter that Daunte's warrant involved gun possession?  

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I haven't watched the news in a while and I don't want to watch the video of this.   Can anyone tell me if dispatch told Potter that Daunte's warrant involved gun possession?  

I haven’t heard and I doubt we will hear until trial.  I imagine they knew (likely through a laptop in the car), because otherwise it would be extremely unlikely for that many police officers to be seen in the video. 

It explains the reaching for the taser and the number of cops. But it isn’t as if he was getting in the car to run over a cop. No one’s life was in danger.  I think in most jurisdictions a taser was called for. I’m not certain that’s appropriate police action but I think it’s standard. 

[WildflowerMom]

36 minutes ago, Katy said:

I haven’t heard and I doubt we will hear until trial.  I imagine they knew (likely through a laptop in the car), because otherwise it would be extremely unlikely for that many police officers to be seen in the video. 

It explains the reaching for the taser and the number of cops. But it isn’t as if he was getting in the car to run over a cop. No one’s life was in danger.  I think in most jurisdictions a taser was called for. I’m not certain that’s appropriate police action but I think it’s standard. 

Thanks!   From what little I've heard or could stomach, a taser was probably understandable.   

[ktgrok]

13 hours ago, Janeway said:

few facts we have...Daunte was running from the police, he was refusing to stop when told, he had a history of violence and gun violence at that. The police officers felt he was a credible threat to their lives. The courts felt he was enough of a threat that he had a warrant out. Daunte was not scared of the officers. If he were, he would not have run. He was running because he knew he had done very bad things and he did not want to be held accountable. Of course no one should be shot because of a crime they were accused of. But there are reasons for police to shoot and Daunte seemingly did all he could to bring this on. Until all evidence is out, and not just a media circus, there will not be a fair judgement. Meanwhile, the violent and destructive riots are still not okay. 

Running is USUALLY from fear. You cannot say he wouldn't run because he was scared, that makes no sense. People run from scary things all the time. That's why they call it fight or flight mode!

And yes, there are reasons for police to shoot - none of which occurred in this situation. Someone leaving is not a reason to shoot them. 

[pinball]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

So do you think the officers outside should have shot her and the others to keep them from moving forward toward the members of Congress?  

I really can't even believe you are saying she posed 'no threat'.  If she was by herself, maybe not.  But she was part of a very dangerous and threatening crowd.  I think I have even lost sight of your point.

If that door was so important to the safety of the people on the other side of the door, then why did LEOs just step aside and let the people begin to smash the windows, and ultimately let her begin to climb through the window?

if that door was a “hold at all costs” integral part of the protection of whomever was on the other side, why didn’t they pull her out of the window?

[pinball]

1 hour ago, kand said:

Agree. It’s not even like the crowd was just theoretically dangerous (as in the case of a person with a warrant), but they were actively violent and dangerous. 140 police officers were injured that day. In addition to the one killed by the rioters, police officers suffered concussions, broken ribs, a gouged eye, severed finger, lung injuries, puncture wounds, and on and on. Should that crowd, shouting for death to Mike Pence and other lawmakers, have been allowed to get to them on the other side of that window?

I hate that Ashlii Babbitt had to be shot that day. I don’t like killing in any form. I think she was very stupid to be there and unfortunately lost her life for it. I don’t think the officer had any other choice under the circumstances, though. I feel bad for him to have to live with it. 

There has not been any cause of death given for Officer Sicknick, so if that is to whom you are referring with “the one killed by rioters” it is not accurate (at this time).

[Sneezyone]

5 hours ago, TheReader said:

One thing I'll add about that.....the better outcome is sometimes, for POC, that they survive the initial encounter, and then end up with a harsher jail sentence, or even a wrongful conviction, because they comply, comply, comply, all the way to a guilty verdict. 

I can only imagine that is part of the underlying fear a POC feels during encounters with LEOs. 

Better=no one dies or is visibly maimed? I'm not sure that's better either. There’s harm that goes unseen too. The harm the ‘comply at all costs’ faction promotes and presupposes is 'better' denies the never-ending harm to psyche and self worth done by constantly denying people the right to be fully feeling human beings with intrinsic worth, dignity, and deserving of respect, free from fear. Being servile comes at a cost too-- even without incarceration or physical harm. That yessir, massa, crap creates real rage, especially when the action being taken or the stop itself is unjust.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

If that door was so important to the safety of the people on the other side of the door, then why did LEOs just step aside and let the people begin to smash the windows, and ultimately let her begin to climb through the window?

if that door was a “hold at all costs” integral part of the protection of whomever was on the other side, why didn’t they pull her out of the window?

I have no idea.  I don't understand what kind of point you are trying to make.

 

[Xahm]

19 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

So, I'm curious re the expired tags thing. Is that something that cops are compelled to pick up? Are they under 'number of interactions' pressure, so pick these as quick and easy to add to the tally? If it's just a petty exercise in power ie bored cops looking for drama, why are they under-employed? What's the deal there? 

 

What officers are told during training, at least in this area, is that pulling people over for low-level offenses is sometimes the only way to get them for something high-value. The Oklahoma City Bomber was caught by an officer pulling him over for having no licence plate. Many officers certainly look for suspicious cars, then find something wrong so that they can pull them over. One foolish individual pulled over a car, then made up a reason when he realized there were lots of drugs in the car. The drug dealer walked free because the judge knew the officer would not have been able to see that the tires were bald before pulling him over. If the officer had been more clever, he could have said the car had crossed the center line and the judge would have accepted it even if untrue, which is why we need dash cams and body cams.

Generally the police in my area have busy times and down times. There are no quotas for tickets, but they are expected to have a certain number of actions taken during any time period. If there are no reports to write or calls to go on, they have to find something to do, which can be check on an old empty building or find someone to pull over.

 

[TheReader]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Better=no one dies or is visibly maimed? I'm not sure that's better either. There’s harm that goes unseen too. The harm the ‘comply at all costs’ faction promotes and presupposes is 'better' denies the never-ending harm to psyche and self worth done by constantly denying people the right to be fully feeling human beings with intrinsic worth, dignity, and deserving of respect, free from fear. Being servile comes at a cost too-- even without incarceration or physical harm. That yessir, massa, crap creates real rage, especially when the action being taken or the stop itself is unjust.

Oh, I agree; that was my point. That the "better outcome" is still a harmful one. You are very right that there are quite a few ways that plays out, not just in the ones we can see and quantify and name. 

I just don't know how to help more people see it. I'm trying, though, in my small corner of the world. Because I do see it, and whole-heartedly believe it has to stop, and it has to change. No one deserves the horrific mistreatment that is happening. Including the very real impact of "just" living with the risk/possibility of such mistreatment as a thing always hanging over their head, like you mention. 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by TheReader
added " " around Just because there's really no "just" about it

[ktgrok]

There is a WHOLE lot of difference between a person trying to get away, and a person coming TOWARDS you during a violent coup attempt. 

[pinball]

21 minutes ago, kand said:

“Let her begin to climb?” I’m not understanding this kind of reasoning. The LEO’s had barricaded that doorway by piling furniture against it and the three officers between the mob and the glass doors had to abandon their posts when it became too violent. Why is it the LEO to blame for her smashing and climbing the window? Do you think the people there didn’t know it was against the law to go into the US Capitol and smash windows and climb into barricaded areas? I’m confused why the LEO in this case aren’t getting the same defense that people are so quick to cry when Black people are shot by cops: if Babbitt had not broken the law and hadn’t been climbing through the window, this wouldn’t have happened. Again, idiotic and wrong as I think she was, I still think it’s tragic she died because of it. But I don’t see the officer had another choice given the stakes if that mob had breached that doorway and gotten into chambers with lawmakers. 
 

If there is a mob of hundreds of rowdy, violent people trying to get into your house, and one manages to break through a window you had barricaded and starts to climb through, do you think it’s legally justifiable to shoot them?

Are you defending the rioters here? I’m just wanting to know what our starting point is. I assume you have seen enough video of people beating officers with their American Flags, crushing them in doors, dragging them down stairs, etc, etc, that you know well what the scene was there that day. Officer Sicknick was injured during physical engagement with protestors, and was taken to the hospital where he died. You’re right we don’t know the precise details. 

OK, so your point is the LEOs were correct to get out of the way, let the the windows get smashed and let the woman begin to crawl through the window.

But why did LEOs stay in the hallway and on stairs if it was so dangerous to them. As far as I can tell, none of them were touched before they stepped aside.

the purpose of the Capitol Police, from their own website :

The USCP is responsible for protecting Congress and the public, and maintaining order while protecting the U.S. Capitol – the seat of our nation’s government.

 

as for Sicknick, he texted his brother after things had stabilized, said he was in good shape and had been pepper sprayed twice. It wasn’t until ten pm that night that he collapse. His death could very well be directly related to someone attacking him but that is not known.

 

[HeartString]

Comparing these 2 very, very different scenarios sure feels a lot like whataboutism. 

It's possible to feel that Ashli Babbit's death was a justifiable use of force and that Duante Wright's wasn't. 

[Terabith]

And now the heartbreaking footage of 13 year old Adam Toledo being shot with his hands up. 

Lord, have mercy.  

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, Terabith said:

And now the heartbreaking footage of 13 year old Adam Toledo being shot with his hands up. 

Lord, have mercy.  

Heart breaking indeed.  I can't even bring myself to watch it.

[HeartString]

31 minutes ago, Terabith said:

And now the heartbreaking footage of 13 year old Adam Toledo being shot with his hands up. 

Lord, have mercy.  

He complied and still got shot.  It seems like the police lied on the report too, which is extra infuriating.  
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/police-report-falsely-states-13-year-old-adam-toledo-adult-2021-4%3famp

But police also misstated events, Officer Stillman stating in a separate tactical response report that the deceased "did not follow verbal direction" — and that the officer faced an "imminent threat of battery with weapon" and said the subject "used force likely to cause death or great bodily harm."

 

Those claims do not entirely match up with troubling footage, released on Thursday, from the body cam Officer Stillman was wearing.

Toledo in the video appears to have had a gun but dropped it before complying with the officer and raising his hands. 

[Fritz]

On 4/15/2021 at 11:29 AM, bibiche said:

Don’t be silly! Did you not see her lily white complexion? And c’mon, what’s a little insurrection? It’s not as if she was driving while Black or anything. Sheesh.🙄 

It has nothing to do with "her lily white complexion". She had done nothing to deserve being shot with no warning. The young man in the traffic stop had not either. He was at least given a verbal warning that he would be tasered. Ashli got nothing but a bullet. I know it does not fit the MSM narrative but police officers shoot white people too. BTW the officer (whose identity is still being protected) that shot Ashli is black. Does that matter? No, it is another incident of a police officer over reacting. But does the fact that he is black play a part in his identity being protected since it does not fit the MSM narrative? 

https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-victorians-had-to-accept-darwin

Edited April 18, 2021 by Fritz
omitted link

[hippymamato3]

On 4/15/2021 at 11:18 AM, Sneezyone said:

The threat was posed by the mob she was leading toward the duly elected senators in the hallway directly behind the officer who shot. You can also hear the insurrectionists on the video shout ‘gun’ before the shooting occurred. Their violence was clearly established by their behavior and the way they wielded their improvised and real weapons. It was a lawless mob seeking to attack high value protectees. Not gonna win that one. Ever. 

This wording makes me physically sick.

[Corraleno]

56 minutes ago, Fritz said:

It has nothing to do with "her lily white complexion". She had done nothing to deserve being shot with no warning. The young man in the traffic stop had not either. He was at least given a verbal warning that he would be tasered. Ashli got nothing but a bullet. I know it does not fit the MSM narrative but police officers shoot white people too. BTW the officer (whose identity is still being protected) that shot Ashli is black. Does that matter? No, it is another incident of a police officer over reacting. But does the fact that he is black play a part in his identity being protected since it does not fit the MSM narrative? 

https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-victorians-had-to-accept-darwin

The officer repeatedly yelled at her to get back and people in the mob were yelling at her that the officer had a gun, but she ignored them and went through the window anyway.

[pinball]

16 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The officer repeatedly yelled at her to get back and people in the mob were yelling at her that the officer had a gun, but she ignored them and went through the window anyway.

Source or evidence of him yelling a warning? I’ve heard that his lawyer claimed he did but that’s it. 

She didn’t go through the window or her body would have been on the other side of the door. She was shot as she was attempting to climb through.

 

[WildflowerMom]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

Source or evidence of him yelling a warning? I’ve heard that his lawyer claimed he did but that’s it. 

She didn’t go through the window or her body would have been on the other side of the door. She was shot as she was attempting to climb through.

 

But what was the alternative?   Allow her and others to get into that hallway?   Then a whole slew of insurrectionists would have been killed, not just that one.    The capitol police are there to protect the people working there, whether that is a senator or a lowly intern.    Once the hallway is breached, CP have to act.  

[Sneezyone]

Returning to the systemic issues in policing, this is an opinion piece but it gives a decent overview of the role SCOTUS played in giving LEOs so much discretion. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/17/how-the-supreme-court-helped-create-driving-while-black-482530

Edited April 18, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, pinball said:

Source or evidence of him yelling a warning? I’ve heard that his lawyer claimed he did but that’s it. 

She didn’t go through the window or her body would have been on the other side of the door. She was shot as she was attempting to climb through.

 

I am not clear on what your point is.  You are a new poster, but obviously not really.  That alone is a little disconcerting. 
 

why do you think a grown woman needs a warning to not crawl through a window in the middle of a violent breach of the capitol?

[Ausmumof3]

On 4/16/2021 at 1:01 AM, Fritz said:

You are right, it is their job and there have been incidents when people have been shot even when complying, but statistically those that comply are likely to have a better outcome. 

Do you mind me asking if you’re new here or just posting under a new identity?

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Do you mind me asking if you’re new here or just posting under a new identity?

Fritz's first post on the forum (at least with that name) was a link to the website of Simone Gold, the doctor who lied about her credentials and staged a publicity stunt last summer in which she and others (including Stella Immanuel, aka Demon Sperm Doctor) pushed HCQ as a cure for covid. Simone Gold has been arrested and is now facing multiple federal charges for her role in the January 6th insurrection.

[HeartString]

Since one theme here has been excessive police force this seemed relevant.  Police slam elderly lady with dementia to the ground, dislocate her shoulder and break her frail arm.  This is not a healthy system.  😞 

Those officers were under no threat.  They were annoyed. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/colorado-police-accused-injuring-elderly-woman-dementia-during-arrest-n1264347

 "Just eight seconds passed between Officer Hopp reaching Ms. Garner and Officer Hopp throwing her tiny body to the ground and putting her in handcuffs."

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by HeartString

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, HeartString said:

Since one theme here has been excessive police force this seemed relevant.  Police slam elderly lady with dementia to the ground, dislocate her shoulder and break her frail arm.  This is not a healthy system.  😞 

Those officers were under no threat.  They were annoyed. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/colorado-police-accused-injuring-elderly-woman-dementia-during-arrest-n1264347

 "Just eight seconds passed between Officer Hopp reaching Ms. Garner and Officer Hopp throwing her tiny body to the ground and putting her in handcuffs."

 

I saw this. It reminds me of the elderly Indian grandfather who got the same treatment in a Georgia (I think) suburb a few years back.

[hippymamato3]

17 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am not clear on what your point is.  You are a new poster, but obviously not really.  That alone is a little disconcerting. 
 

why do you think a grown woman needs a warning to not crawl through a window in the middle of a violent breach of the capitol?

Was she shot? I'm not clear anymore who died and who was shot at because there have been so many. If she was shot, he better have yelled a warning. 

[Spryte]

11 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Was she shot? I'm not clear anymore who died and who was shot at because there have been so many. If she was shot, he better have yelled a warning. 

Here’s an article with video, you can read or watch at your discretion: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/%3foutputType=amp  I don’t know about a specific warning, I can’t bring myself to watch again, but it was certainly clear that the door was barricaded and being protected.

It’s tragic that the whole thing happened, all of it.  

Given that there were gallows with nooses built outside, and the threats being yelled by some about harming lawmakers, I’m grateful that the mob didn’t get through those doors.  It’s possible our nation would be in an even worse place. And where we are is bad enough.

I’m heartbroken about all the loss of life that day.

[HeartString]

29 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Was she shot? I'm not clear anymore who died and who was shot at because there have been so many. If she was shot, he better have yelled a warning. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/   this article has video.

"With help from someone who hoisted her up, Babbitt began to step through a portion of the door where the glass had been broken out. An officer on the other side, who was wearing a suit and a surgical mask, immediately shot Babbitt in the neck. She fell to the floor".

 

This is a situation where I don't think a warning was required.  She was being hoisted through a window that had just been broken, trying to get into an area she knew she was not suppose to be in.  The locked door, with furniture piled up behind it to block entrance, with police in riot gear on the other side should have been her warning.  She knew police were going to protect that area.  The police had pulled back to a perimeter and were going to protect that perimeter.  Protecting elected members of congress, during a constitutionally mandated governmental act.  She was trying to get into a hallway that would lead to congress members, that had congress members in it moments before. She was part of a  violent mob chanting about hanging Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.  All of the people in that building knew they were risking their lives.  It was a risk they deemed acceptable.   

 

I can't even believe this is part of the conversation about police violence against unarmed people during traffic stops.  The whataboutism is so loud that its deafening.  

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by HeartString

[HeartString]

Where are the normal questions about Ashli Babbit? 

Where were her parents? 

Why was she even there?

Why didn't she comply? 

If she had just treated the officers with respect, it wouldn't have happened. She should have been taught proper respect for law enforcement..

What did she think was going to happen? 

Well....the police had reason to fear for their safety, its a dangerous job. They just wanted to get home to their families. 

 

All questions asked about LITERALLY every person the police kill.  Except here.  I wonder why?  Except that I think we all know.

Edited April 19, 2021 by HeartString

[hippymamato3]

11 minutes ago, kand said:

His lawyer says he yelled multiple times, “Stay back!” and “Don’t come in here!”  People on her side of the door were yelling “gun” It was very loud and chaotic in there and I don’t think a verbal warning would be very effective anyway, nor necessary under the circumstances, for the reasons HeartString says. She was breaking in through a heavily barricaded, guarded entrance. I hate that she was shot and wish there had been another way to stop her. I’m uncomfortable with it, but they absolutely couldn’t let that violent mob of people into the chambers where lawmakers were. She (and everyone else) never should have been there doing what they were doing. 

I completely agree that she shouldn't have been there. I'm 100% disgusted by that whole situation. 

[hippymamato3]

42 minutes ago, HeartString said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/   this article has video.

"With help from someone who hoisted her up, Babbitt began to step through a portion of the door where the glass had been broken out. An officer on the other side, who was wearing a suit and a surgical mask, immediately shot Babbitt in the neck. She fell to the floor".

 

This is a situation where I don't think a warning was required.  She was being hoisted through a window that had just been broken, trying to get into an area she knew she was not suppose to be in.  The locked door, with furniture piled up behind it to block entrance, with police in riot gear on the other side should have been her warning.  She knew police were going to protect that area.  The police had pulled back to a perimeter and were going to protect that perimeter.  Protecting elected members of congress, during a constitutionally mandated governmental act.  She was trying to get into a hallway that would lead to congress members, that had congress members in it moments before. She was part of a  violent mob chanting about hanging Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.  All of the people in that building knew they were risking their lives.  It was a risk they deemed acceptable.   

 

I can't even believe this is part of the conversation about police violence against unarmed people during traffic stops.  The whataboutism is so loud that its deafening.  

 

 

Thank you for the clarification. This is why I asked - it has nothing to do with murder at traffic stops. 

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Thank you for the clarification. This is why I asked - it has nothing to do with murder at traffic stops. 

Right.  I am a little confused how we even started talking about the Ashley Babbitt

[MercyA]

@HeartString, I'm enjoying your posts and wondering if you've posted under another username before? If you'd rather not answer, I understand, but am curious. 🙂 

I'm bad with names in general and when people change names (or even avatars) I am easily confused. 😉