Daunte Wright

[Scarlett]

Is anyone watching the protests?

[Harriet Vane]

My heart is with Daunte and his family. Pulled over for a completely frivolous, stupid non-reason and shot for absolutely nothing by someone who really knew better. 

[IfIOnly]

I'm waiting until more info comes out to understand the situation better, but recently read this info.

https://www.lawofficer.com/daunte-wright-was-facing-attempted-armed-robbery-charge-at-time-of-death/

 

Edit: I know nothing about this site. Just Googled for updated information, and this article came up.

Edited April 14, 2021 by IfIOnly

[Scarlett]

18 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

My heart is with Daunte and his family. Pulled over for a completely frivolous, stupid non-reason and shot for absolutely nothing by someone who really knew better. 

I am broken hearted for his family too.  
 

Are expired tags frivolous? I mean I have been pulled over for expired tags.  

[IfIOnly]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I am broken hearted for his family too.  
 

Are expired tags frivolous? I mean I have been pulled over for expired tags.  

It was originally reported in the news that he was pulled over because of a hanging air freshener on his rear view mirror, which is illegal in Minnesota. Reports are now saying expired tags. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, IfIOnly said:

It was originally reported in the news that he was pulled over because of a hanging air freshener on his rear view mirror, which is illegal in Minnesota. Reports are now saying expired tags. 

I think that original report came from Daunte telling his mom on the phone that is what he got pulled over for.  I would guess he did not even know he had expired tags.  

[BakersDozen]

3 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

Pulled over for a completely frivolous, stupid non-reason and shot for absolutely nothing

I'm trying to read through updates tonight and it seems there was at least one outstanding warrant and that Daunte resisted the police? He pulled away and got back in the car from what I'm reading? If expired tags was the reason for being pulled over that's pretty common and valid, imo, not frivolous.

[Happy2BaMom]

 

5 hours ago, IfIOnly said:

I'm waiting until more info comes out to understand the situation better, but recently read this info.

https://www.lawofficer.com/daunte-wright-was-facing-attempted-armed-robbery-charge-at-time-of-death/

 

Edit: I know nothing about this site. Just Googled for updated information, and this article came up.

It takes about 20 seconds of investigation to determine that this is a very right-wing, pro-police, anti-POC (just look at their other headlines) site.

I can often see nuance with some of the killings that have taken place (eg in *some* cases, I can see where police could be easily confused by what is happening), but too much of the time, sites like this seem to imply that any past action by a Black person instantly justifies the fact that s/he was killed by police.

Having a warrant out for your arrest does not justify instant execution.

 

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

If expired tags was the reason for being pulled over that's pretty common and valid, imo, not frivolous.

LEOs here are ignoring expired tags because the DMV is so behind due to the pandemic and slower than usual mail. They've been giving motorists a pass since the pandemic began. We bought a new-to-us vehicle last summer and were issued a dealer tag. But the dealership told us not to worry if it expired before the permanent tag arrived due to the reasons I just listed. My MIL recently (six or eight weeks ago) bought a vehicle, and was told the same thing. It's also been reported on the news. I assumed all states were probably having similar issues?

[Carrie12345]

3 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

I'm trying to read through updates tonight and it seems there was at least one outstanding warrant and that Daunte resisted the police? He pulled away and got back in the car from what I'm reading? If expired tags was the reason for being pulled over that's pretty common and valid, imo, not frivolous.

I don’t think I’d go so far as to call it frivolous. But it’s stuff that doesn’t carry a death sentence, especially without a trial.

[Scarlett]

56 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t think I’d go so far as to call it frivolous. But it’s stuff that doesn’t carry a death sentence, especially without a trial.

For sure.  But once you get pulled over for expired tags and IF there was a warrant for you....what is the next step? Is it common to ask the person to get out of the car and then attempt to cuff him? 
 

I feel the police officer who shot will have to be accountable for his death but 8 do not think she intentionally shot him.  

[Katy]

This is a tragedy.  I’m glad the officer took responsibility and resigned.  

She likely has criminal immunity unless there is gross criminal negligence, and she clearly intended to use her taser from the video. Unless they find some other kind of issue with her (which sounds unlikely given her history as President of the police union), she will not be charged. 

The family will likely get a large financial settlement.  More if they can establish a pattern that most people pulled over for “air fresheners” are minorities.  It doesn’t matter if he had expired tags in a pandemic. It doesn’t really matter that he was evading arrest or had warrants or a criminal history. He wasn’t a murderer and no one’s life was in danger.  A taser was warranted, a gun was not.  I can definitely understand the protests, even if I don’t agree with every nuance.  It isn’t really about this situation alone.  It’s centuries of murder and oppression. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

53 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

For sure.  But once you get pulled over for expired tags and IF there was a warrant for you....what is the next step? Is it common to ask the person to get out of the car and then attempt to cuff him? 
 

I feel the police officer who shot will have to be accountable for his death but 8 do not think she intentionally shot him.  

If you get pulled over and they find that you have outstanding warrants, usually you’ll wind up handcuffed and in the back of the police car while they sort it out.  If it’s a non extraditable warrant they usually just let you go. This guy had felony warrants so he probably would have just gone to jail till it was sorted out.

My partner at work last night was a cop for 20 years before retiring and working on an ambulance.  He said he can’t possibly figure out how someone could confuse a gun and a taser.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

 

My partner at work last night was a cop for 20 years before retiring and working on an ambulance.  He said he can’t possibly figure out how someone could confuse a gun and a taser.

And not just "someone" but a police officer. 

If you can't manage to figure out your gun vs your taser you shouldn't be carrying either. How are these people becoming LEOs?

[1234]

I’m disgusted and saddened. I’m also really getting tired of people acting like police have a right to kill someone so easily. Police seem to be on quite the power trip these days and I’m ready for it to end.

It’s so weird and different from how I grew up. I was always told not to trust police just because they were police. There was no blind respect for them just because. It seems that is what is expected no matter what these days. After the first time I was pulled over, my dad told me to always turn on my hazards and drive to a populated place and we see how that played out recently for a Black Army Lt. 

There needs to be an across the board understanding that some people are genuinely afraid of police and with good reason. So, how they do their job needs to drastically change.

[Katy]

Just now, ktgrok said:

And not just "someone" but a police officer. 

If you can't manage to figure out your gun vs your taser you shouldn't be carrying either. How are these people becoming LEOs?

Even 28 year veterans make mistakes.

One of those former navy seals that goes on Joe Rogan’s podcast (I think maybe Jocko Willnick?) talked about how incredulous he was when he found out how little training police get. He thinks police reform should include 1 day of training for every 4 days on the job. 

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

Even 28 year veterans make mistakes.

One of those former navy seals that goes on Joe Rogan’s podcast (I think maybe Jocko Willnick?) talked about how incredulous he was when he found out how little training police get. He thinks police reform should include 1 day of training for every 4 days on the job. 

Yeah, it's obvious that what we are doing isn't enough. Not for them, not for the people they serve. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And not just "someone" but a police officer. 

If you can't manage to figure out your gun vs your taser you shouldn't be carrying either. How are these people becoming LEOs?

My partner actually wondered if the LEO was somehow impaired on pain meds or something else. After 20 years on the job that mistake doesn’t make any sense. I’ve watched the video and it was clearly a horrible mistake, but it doesn’t make sense. 

[ktgrok]

Ok, so this goes into more detail - seems this has happened several times before and that the thought is that in a time of stress people react to the dominant action that is trained more (pulling the gun) than the less common action (pulling the taser), because they are trained more on firearms than tasers. 

So yeah, we've made it so lethal action is the dominant, most trained thing. Then given cops items that feel similar. And hoped for the best. 

This is an easy fix it seems - like - make tasers bright pink and totally different feeling, with a totally different trigger mechanism. And maybe train cops to use the taser more. 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/explainer-officer-gun-taser-77031088

Edited April 14, 2021 by ktgrok

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

My partner actually wondered if the LEO was somehow impaired on pain meds or something else. After 20 years on the job that mistake doesn’t make any sense. I’ve watched the video and it was clearly a horrible mistake, but it doesn’t make sense. 

It could be something as small as sleep deprivation.  I know I’ve mixed things up when over tired. Luckily it involved curriculum or sippy cups, not life and death. 

[Xahm]

Dh is a police officer in a large department with better than state standard training, but he wants it increased tremendously. Also, they get little to no training about some very important things, like laws and the importance of preserving constitutional rights, and lots of training about how every interaction is likely to be dangerous for the police officer so they must be constantly vigilant. As his wife and as a person, clearly I want officers to stay safe, but I wonder if that method of keeping them on edge doesn't cause officers to escalate and make things more dangerous.

[Gobblygook]

Yes, it’s devastating for our community, especially in light of the Derek Chauvin trial underway. I know the area well. 

[Scarlett]

27 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

If you get pulled over and they find that you have outstanding warrants, usually you’ll wind up handcuffed and in the back of the police car while they sort it out.  If it’s a non extraditable warrant they usually just let you go. This guy had felony warrants so he probably would have just gone to jail till it was sorted out.

My partner at work last night was a cop for 20 years before retiring and working on an ambulance.  He said he can’t possibly figure out how someone could confuse a gun and a taser.

 

24 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And not just "someone" but a police officer. 

If you can't manage to figure out your gun vs your taser you shouldn't be carrying either. How are these people becoming LEOs?

I am wondering the same thing.  Apparently it happens more often than one would think.  I heard on the news this morning.....something like 18 times per year?  Don't quote me on that.  Someone who could make that mistake should certainly NOT continue as LEO.  Or any job where they carry a gun.

[Scarlett]

47 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

I’m disgusted and saddened. I’m also really getting tired of people acting like police have a right to kill someone so easily. Police seem to be on quite the power trip these days and I’m ready for it to end.

It’s so weird and different from how I grew up. I was always told not to trust police just because they were police. There was no blind respect for them just because. It seems that is what is expected no matter what these days. After the first time I was pulled over, my dad told me to always turn on my hazards and drive to a populated place and we see how that played out recently for a Black Army Lt. 

There needs to be an across the board understanding that some people are genuinely afraid of police and with good reason. So, how they do their job needs to drastically change.

Your post kind of confuses me.  I don't think anyone is saying the LEO had a right to kill him.  They did have the right to detain him which is what they were doing. I don't know if Daunte was afraid of them but he DID know he had a (edited to say I don't know what kind of) warrant and did not want to go to jail.  

I do agree with your last sentence though.  Something has to change.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Scarlett

[hippymamato3]

10 hours ago, IfIOnly said:

I'm waiting until more info comes out to understand the situation better, but recently read this info.

https://www.lawofficer.com/daunte-wright-was-facing-attempted-armed-robbery-charge-at-time-of-death/

 

Edit: I know nothing about this site. Just Googled for updated information, and this article came up.

Um no. That is inaccurate and damaging. He was arrested for smoking MARIJUANA as a MINOR and fined. It was a misdemeanor. During the pandemic he was unable to make payments on his $150ish fine and a warrant was put out for him. 

[hippymamato3]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t think I’d go so far as to call it frivolous. But it’s stuff that doesn’t carry a death sentence, especially without a trial.

The warrant was for failure to pay fines for a MARIJUANA smoking incident. It was a MISDEMEANOR.

[Danae]

14 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Your post kind of confuses me.  I don't think anyone is saying the LEO had a right to kill him.  They did have the right to detain him which is what they were doing. I don't know if Daunte was afraid of them but he DID know he had a (edited to say I don't know what kind of) warrant and did not want to go to jail.  

I do agree with your last sentence though.  Something has to change.

I don’t believe that any young black man pulled over in the Twin Cities right now, during the Chauvin trial, has “going to jail” at the top of his list of fears.

[1234]

18 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Your post kind of confuses me.  I don't think anyone is saying the LEO had a right to kill him.  They did have the right to detain him which is what they were doing. I don't know if Daunte was afraid of them but he DID know he had a (edited to say I don't know what kind of) warrant and did not want to go to jail.  

I do agree with your last sentence though.  Something has to change.

Many people out there do believe the police were justified. Maybe not on this board but I’m seeing it out there and even within my own extended family. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Danae said:

I don’t believe that any young black man pulled over in the Twin Cities right now, during the Chauvin trial, has “going to jail” at the top of his list of fears.

Are you saying he resisted them and jumped back in his car because he feared them?  I am not denying that possibility, I am just trying to clarify what you are saying.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Joker2 said:

Many people out there do believe the police were justified. Maybe not on this board but I’m seeing it out there and even within my own extended family. 

Oh I see.  Well, that is terrible.  He did not deserve to be shot for sure. 

[Happy2BaMom]

1 minute ago, Joker2 said:

Many people out there do believe the police were justified. Maybe not on this board but I’m seeing it out there and even within my own extended family. 

I have no doubt many people believe the police were justified. Racism (e.g. "no, it REALLY WAS the black person's fault") is always the default reaction to some unarmed black person being instantly (& without warning) shot to death by police. I'm not sure why it matters that people think that. The US is still a very racist country.

 

[Paige]

32 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

This is an easy fix it seems - like - make tasers bright pink and totally different feeling, with a totally different trigger mechanism. And maybe train cops to use the taser more. 

 

I don't know...I think the easier fix would be to quit automatically reaching for weapons of any kind. A LOT of the videos I see where people are tased also seem like unnecessary force. I think using force frequently is a natural outcome of poor training. I see many times in these videos where excessive force has been used that people are being asked to get out of their cars right away too. I have never been asked to get out of my car or been a passenger in a car where the driver was asked to get out. Why are people asked to get out right away? If you're scared of them running off, ask for keys or an ID or something, but asking a scared person to get out before you even know what's up immediately escalates the situation. 

So Daunte's warrants, IMO- irrelevant. The police don't have a license to kill and he is presumed innocent of ALL charges at this point. Even if he were to have been later found guilty, he'd only need to serve the appropriate punishment for any offense. 

I don't think we should be pulling people over for expired tags and air fresheners anyway. Send it in the mail. I think people should only be pulled over for imminent threats- speeding, reckless driving, etc. Other issues are more administrative, IMO. 

It's absolutely heartbreaking. He was 19. On the phone with his mom. Can you imagine? 

 

[Paige]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Are you saying he resisted them and jumped back in his car because he feared them?  I am not denying that possibility, I am just trying to clarify what you are saying.

Not the person you quoted, but that was definitely what I thought when I heard about the case. He was young, he's seen the news, he was probably terrified. 

[Danae]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Are you saying he resisted them and jumped back in his car because he feared them?  I am not denying that possibility, I am just trying to clarify what you are saying.

I don't know what was going through his head. I doubt is was rational, I suspect fear was involved, and I don't think it was anything like "I'm going to try to escape so I don't go to jail." 

 

Edit:  I should clarify, I think fear of the police is rational in this circumstance.  The actions that fear might lead to aren't, necessarily, because there is no rational, right answer.  Do exactly as you're told?  Might still get shot.  Try to run away?  Might get shot.  Fight?  Might get shot.  Flailing about in a panic is probably also not a safe option, but I'm not sure it's demonstrably less safe than the alternatives.

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Danae said:

I don't know what was going through his head. I doubt is was rational, I suspect fear was involved, and I don't think it was anything like "I'm going to try to escape so I don't go to jail." 

 

Edit:  I should clarify, I think fear of the police is rational in this circumstance.  The actions that fear might lead to aren't, necessarily, because there is no rational, right answer.  Do exactly as you're told?  Might still get shot.  Try to run away?  Might get shot.  Fight?  Might get shot.  Flailing about in a panic is probably also not a safe option, but I'm not sure it's demonstrably less safe than the alternatives.

Good point.  

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, Paige said:

I don't know...I think the easier fix would be to quit automatically reaching for weapons of any kind. A LOT of the videos I see where people are tased also seem like unnecessary force. I think using force frequently is a natural outcome of poor training. I see many times in these videos where excessive force has been used that people are being asked to get out of their cars right away too. I have never been asked to get out of my car or been a passenger in a car where the driver was asked to get out. Why are people asked to get out right away? If you're scared of them running off, ask for keys or an ID or something, but asking a scared person to get out before you even know what's up immediately escalates the situation. 

So Daunte's warrants, IMO- irrelevant. The police don't have a license to kill and he is presumed innocent of ALL charges at this point. Even if he were to have been later found guilty, he'd only need to serve the appropriate punishment for any offense. 

I don't think we should be pulling people over for expired tags and air fresheners anyway. Send it in the mail. I think people should only be pulled over for imminent threats- speeding, reckless driving, etc. Other issues are more administrative, IMO. 

It's absolutely heartbreaking. He was 19. On the phone with his mom. Can you imagine? 

 

Oh, agreed entirely. 

We had a SWAT team here in my neighborhood drill holes in the wall of a house and punch out windows to serve a warrant for something minor. It' crazy. 

Although I have been asked to get out of the car before when pulled over. I'd run a stop sign (dark back roads at night in the POURING rain - and I missed it). I think she thought maybe I was drunk. 

But yeah, cops need to realize that a young black man is going to be TERRIFIED when pulled over, and do what they can to de-escalate the situation. 

7 minutes ago, Paige said:

Not the person you quoted, but that was definitely what I thought when I heard about the case. He was young, he's seen the news, he was probably terrified. 

Yup. 

[Carrie12345]

31 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

The warrant was for failure to pay fines for a MARIJUANA smoking incident. It was a MISDEMEANOR.

Well now I’m even more pissed.  Surely that was included in the information the officers received.

[hippymamato3]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well now I’m even more pissed.  Surely that was included in the information the officers received.

Of course it was.

[HeartString]

16 minutes ago, Paige said:

. A LOT of the videos I see where people are tased also seem like unnecessary force. I think using force frequently is a natural outcome of poor training. I see many times in these videos where excessive force has been used that people are being asked to get out of their cars right away too. I have never been asked to get out of my car or been a passenger in a car where the driver was asked to get out.

I’ve seen a LOT of videos with police starting an interaction with yelling orders, often contradictory ones.  As an innocent person just going about my day, that would be so disconcerting.  *Why* are they doing that?  Certainly common sense says that’s going to lead to bad outcomes.  
 

What is the law on that? Am I *legally* obligated to obey, instantly, with no question, when I’m being screamed at out of the blue?    

Edited April 14, 2021 by Cnew02

[1234]

27 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

I have no doubt many people believe the police were justified. Racism (e.g. "no, it REALLY WAS the black person's fault") is always the default reaction to some unarmed black person being instantly (& without warning) shot to death by police. I'm not sure why it matters that people think that. The US is still a very racist country.

 

I was responding to Scarlett (who quoted me) saying she didn’t think anyone believed it was justified. I was letting her know there are actually many people who feel it was ok and that is part of why I am disgusted. I, in no way, feel it was justified. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Joker2

[Scarlett]

17 minutes ago, Cnew02 said:

I’ve seen a LOT of videos with police starting an interaction with yelling orders, often contradictory ones.  As an innocent person just going about my day, that would be so disconcerting.  *Why* are they doing that?  Certainly common sense says that’s going to lead to bad outcomes.  
 

What is the law on that? Am I *legally* obligated to obey, instantly, with no question, when I’m being screamed at out of the blue?    

Yes I think the police do require that.  

[Scarlett]

22 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, agreed entirely. 

We had a SWAT team here in my neighborhood drill holes in the wall of a house and punch out windows to serve a warrant for something minor. It' crazy. 

Although I have been asked to get out of the car before when pulled over. I'd run a stop sign (dark back roads at night in the POURING rain - and I missed it). I think she thought maybe I was drunk. 

But yeah, cops need to realize that a young black man is going to be TERRIFIED when pulled over, and do what they can to de-escalate the situation. 

Yup. 

I was about 20 when I was pulled over on the interstate for going 6 miles over the speed limit.  He made me get into the front seat of his patrol car.  I was really really angry.  I knew then it was total intimidation.  I fumed, but I certainly did not resist.  I also was not afraid.   

[1234]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I was about 20 when I was pulled over on the interstate for going 6 miles over the speed limit.  He made me get into the front seat of his patrol car.  I was really really angry.  I knew then it was total intimidation.  I fumed, but I certainly did not resist.  I also was not afraid.   

This is what happened to me the first time I was pulled over but I was only 16. My dad was furious and so were the other police my dad took me to speak with at the local station. They told me never to do that again and I had the right to refuse.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Joker2

[Jenny in Florida]

1 hour ago, Joker2 said:

There needs to be an across the board understanding that some people are genuinely afraid of police and with good reason. So, how they do their job needs to drastically change.

One of the details that is hitting me hard about this case is the fact that Daunte called his mom for advice when he was stopped. 

My son regularly calls me when he gets nervous or unsure about how to handle stressful situations, so that breaks my heart in a very specific way. The difference in our case is that my son has the privilege of being considered less threatening based on the color of his skin.

It's simply appalling.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Joker2 said:

This is what happened to me the first time I was pulled over but I was only 16. My dad was furious and so were the other police my dad took me to speak with at the local station. They told me never to do that again and I had the right to refuse.

Also, it was dark when I was pulled over.  I can nearly promise you if I had refused he would have put me in cuffs.

[Jenny in Florida]

30 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I think the police do require that.  

Small but important point: The police don't make the laws.

[Katy]

Aggh, nevermind, I’m a moron and misread, then when I tried to delete it posted instead.  I would have cooperated too Scarlet. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Katy

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

Small but important point: The police don't make the laws.

Not sure that matters in the moment it is happening though.

[Paige]

But whether we cooperate out of fear of what the police will do if we don't or because we are legally obligated to do whatever we are told is 2 different things. I would probably cooperate but I'm not sure the law is actually on the police's side to do whatever they want. I mean, I'd cooperate if a carjacker told me to get out too. 

I think my young daughters should be very afraid if they are pulled over for something minor and asked to get out and into the car, alone, with an officer or 2. That's unusual behavior from police. Aren't we told not to go to a secondary location? I'd hope they cooperate but were were able to keep their cameras rolling. 

[Terabith]

Here in Virginia, we're dealing with a case where an Army lieutenant of color is suing the police for excessive force when he was pulled over because they did not see his dealer tags displayed in the window.  The whole incident is on video, and you can clearly hear CONFLICTING orders being given over and over.  He is told "Keep your hands up and out of the window," and also "Unbuckle your seat belt and get out of the car."  He's clearly terrified for his life.  They came at him with guns drawn and instantly ordered him out of the car, while also telling him to keep his hands up.  There's no way to unbuckle your seat belt and open the door while keeping your hands up and out of the window.  He's quite certain that if he moves his hands to unbuckle the seat belt and open the door, that he's going to be shot.  

And frankly, that seems like a reasonable supposition, given the video.  

ETA:  Forgot to add the video.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-police-officer-fired-pepper-spray-handcuff-black-army-lieutenant-traffic-stop/

Edited April 14, 2021 by Terabith