Contact Tracing jobs - Work from home

[EmseB]

8 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

People can/could opt out of being listed in the phone book, though. 

Sure. I guess if someone knows your phone number you could tell them not to give it out to contract tracers so that you aren't notified in case you come into contact with someone who tests positive. But even with an unlisted number your phone number isn't private or a secret.

[EmseB]

24 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I absolutely see that there are privacy issues with contact tracing, especially on such a scale. 

Does anyone have any better ideas, though? 

I don't really understand what the privacy issue is, tbh. Don't people want to know if they're a close contact? Don't people want their friends and co-workers to know if they are at risk? What is private about who you are around each day?

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I don't really understand what the privacy issue is, tbh. Don't people want to know if they're a close contact? Don't people want their friends and co-workers to know if they are at risk? What is private about who you are around each day?

This is what I keep saying over and over.  What are people so afraid of?

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Frankly, if you just have someone's name and a bit of info, you are likely to be able to find them on Facebook or something... 

I have done a lot of genealogy work in the last year or so.  I am amazed at the information I have been able to gather and the people I have been able to track down.  And only one first cousin of my dad refused to talk to me.  I have easily convinced at least 3 people to test in order to prove someone's paternity or maternity or both.  Very few people are 'off the grid' enough that they can't be found. 

[PeterPan]

What is "asymptomatic surveillance"? The White House is out right now saying this is part of what they're doing, that it's a separate thing from contact tracing. But what exactly is it? Just wondering.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

I think they are talking about apps in NY, if I remember correctly. I'm going to be surprised if it's not talked about elsewhere, frankly. It's an easy solution. 

And yes, I agree -- they will start with people you've spent lots of time with. 

And see to me, if people in NYC (not NY as a whole, but just that city) agreed to that, that's their business. And it would parallel the situations you have in some of these large cities in other parts of the world people are citing as reasons to do it. Different demographic from where I live, and to me if they vote and their people, on a city level, are in favor of it, more power to 'em.

[PeterPan]

12 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Hmmm, not sure. Could be random sampling of asymptomatic people. Are they saying anything else? 

Nope, they just dropped that term in a list and I didn't know what it was. Your guess seems reasonable.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

And, I may not be concerned about someone know when I was someplace and who was with me, but the other person may have some reason why they do not want people to know their whereabouts and that they were with me.  I do have friends internationally that have been involved in secret anti-government meetings that could have cost them their lives or resulted in significant harm to some of their family members.  I had a friend who was being stalked by a crazy person who went to all kinds of lengths of find out her comings and goings and to keep her phone number private.  

 

 

Yes, I guess people in close contact at clandestine anti-government meetings would be a problem for you to reveal.  But my guess is that secret agents, anti-government meetings, terrorist cells, etc. type situations is already a whole other ballpark of secrecy quite aside from contact tracing.   (And probably not historically unique, some such person has probably been exposed to another contagious disease that is subject to contact tracing at some point.) 

 

For someone being stalked there might be other options like have them initiate the call to the health department.  If someone were in a group domestic violence shelter it could be an extra problem in terms of potentially exposing many people living in a close quarters facility.   I would probably make sure I was dealing with a legitimate Tracer and then explain that someone I had spent time with is being stalked and seek suggestions.  Being stalked does not give immunity to SARS2.   I suppose another possibility would be to examine the rules for tracing in your area and not have contact with a person being stalked that would fit the requirements for their name and number being given.  Maybe keep 15 feet apart with masks on and outdoors, for example. 

 

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

But we are not talking about lots of companies.  Or someone wanting names so they can try to sell our friends something.  We are talking about getting a call which is either 1) Someone from the health department asking you for the people you have been in contact with because you tested positive. If you get such a call and have not had a test then sure, it is probably a scam.  Or 2) Someone from the health department saying, 'hey someone you have been in close contact with tested positive.  We recommend you get tested, and watch for these serious symptoms and stay isolated until you get a negative result.

It is not some big scary thing.  

LOL, just like the calls/emails telling you you've won a lottery for which you've never purchased a ticket.  Just send us your bank info so we can make the huge deposit!   Scammers gonna scam, use your brain - but that doesn't mean you don't answer the real calls.

[Bootsie]

55 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I have done a lot of genealogy work in the last year or so.  I am amazed at the information I have been able to gather and the people I have been able to track down.  And only one first cousin of my dad refused to talk to me.  I have easily convinced at least 3 people to test in order to prove someone's paternity or maternity or both.  Very few people are 'off the grid' enough that they can't be found. 

As you say, it is amazing how much information you can gather about people today.  This is exactly why some people are concerned.  They don't want to intentionally add to that growing electronic dossier that they do not know who will have access to and what they may want to do with it in the future.  

[Pen]

40 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

And see to me, if people in NYC (not NY as a whole, but just that city) agreed to that, that's their business. And it would parallel the situations you have in some of these large cities in other parts of the world people are citing as reasons to do it. Different demographic from where I live, and to me if they vote and their people, on a city level, are in favor of it, more power to 'em.

 

All the apps in UK, Australia and discussed for USA have been opt-in.  If you don’t want to participate, don’t.  For the NHS type which I have seen demonstrated on YouTube, you have to download it like other opt-in apps—it doesn’t automatically download. My understanding is that is also true for Australia.  And that is also my understanding for USA potential app use.  

Somewhat like Snapchat friend finding.  If you want to participate to so. If you don’t, don’t.

 

If you don’t want to be found at all you probably better give up smartphones entirely. 

And then some. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Dreamergal said:

I always ask questions and especially about health care I go to my trusted source which is my doctor. My doctor is an incredible person and a very safe person for me. I literally doctor shopped and found him. I have had a relationship where I can ask questions and he always answers or finds them for me. So I sent an email yesterday night with my questions which is not an unusual thing to do. He called me today saying my email sounded anxious. What I heard here did send me into anxiety because I am very protective about my information, all kinds of it. So he answered my questions patiently. We already had a COVID plan in place for our family which included social distancing, masking and even mental health. We talked about my mental health and he did urge me to run things by him. We discussed the contact tracing too.

What he told me was this, if you social distance and mask, the chances of exposure happening are very little. So to focus on that first. But he said if I am or anyone in the family is exposed to call him. He then said something which reiterated why I felt so safe calling him and was insistent on saying I will. When I asked him if I will be bothering him or his staff if I call in case of getting called by contact tracing he said "The job of a doctor is not just to treat but to help navigate anything the patient needs. We are facing one of the most incredible health care challenges of all times so going to your doctor in case of people contacting you in case of exposure is the way to go. A good doctor will find time for his patients". He knew I would be anxious so he told me to give his number in case I am ever contacted and he will handle it.  We also talked about mental health for me and how I should stop reading a lot of things and getting myself anxious on remote possibilities ☺️ and focusing on social distancing, masking, exercising and cooking nutritious food. He knows my 'knowledge is power' mantra so I was told very kindly to dial it back a bit as it was making me anxious and he will absolutely help me navigate anything needed.

The first line of defense in health has always been my doctor for me because I came alone to this country. I have lots of medical people in my family, but my doctor is the person I go to for advice as he knows my health well. I do a lot of Ayurveda called  "alternate therapy" here. My doctor has always known about it and we've always discussed all aspects of healthcare with him. DH and I felt incredibly safe and taken care of after our chat with him. If I ever get a call I will point them to my doctor and meanwhile do the social distancing, masking and so on. 

I feel comfortable with my decision and plan to do that.

 

That’s wonderful!  

It sounds like you have a wonderful doctor!!!

 

[PeterPan]

Some trivia here. I was trying to figure out what asymptomatic surveillance is and found this document explaining the terms better. https://healthpolicy.duke.edu/sites/default/files/atoms/files/covid-19_surveillance_roadmap_final.pdf  They're saying this is a nationally notifiable situation, so all covid testing results go to the cdc. So much for your anonymity and hippa and all that.

Under test/trace/quaratine the doc suggests that test/trace is to replace community level mitigation (fair) and that they do NOT accept widespread acceptance of an app based approach, which is why they were going for people driven.

It says isolation outside the home should be voluntary (page 10) and that there is an Office of Civil Rights (OCR) that is setting up guidelines.

And just for @Dreamergal this OCR doc https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/notification-enforcement-discretion-hipaa.pdf  shows how HIPAA will connect to all this. Looks like basically it's reported no matter who you talk with because it's a nationally notifiable issue. No getting around it. 

So you know, when I read what this document says and intends, I'm really proud of them. I don't think it will work (considering the % of asymptomatic and presymptomatic it won't net) and I think it's illogical, not being evenly applied to other serious issues, and a pandora's box that will lead the next more "progressive" politician to even farther extremes through the open door. But I'm proud of them for trying. Ending this massive shutdown of so much of the economy and gross level mitigation is worthy. But when I read what someone here said they're doing in KY, I'm appalled and hope they sue their butts off. There still has to be a balance of protection of civil liberties. If people want this NOT to turn into China, they have to keep fighting it.

Did you see on the news today these stupid robot dogs they're using in Singapore?? I mean, the level of harassment and intrusion those people are willing to put up with is astonishing. This is america. Let's keep it that way.

Edited May 11, 2020 by PeterPan

[Pen]

Message moved to a post farther down. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Pen

[Matryoshka]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/boston-dynamics-robot-used-on-coronavirus-patients-in-boston-2020-4

I am concerned about becoming China by China actually taking over.  Not because of use of an app or contact tracing or Spot robot dog used to do evaluation of patient keeping the doctor at a distance. 

 I think this robot that can be used to decrease medical staff exposure, and thus probably infection and death rate is a very positive development ! 

 

Why would a robot dog developed by a local company be a sign of China taking over?  (I'm not sure that's even what you're trying to say, but I'm confused ... )

[Pen]

5 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Why would a robot dog developed by a local company be a sign of China taking over?  (I'm not sure that's even what you're trying to say, but I'm confused ... )

 

I was replying to @PeterPan! I better edit and try to put what I am replying to in as a quote! 

[Pen]

 

56 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

If people want this NOT to turn into China, they have to keep fighting it.

Did you see on the news today these stupid robot dogs they're using in Singapore?? I mean, the level of harassment and intrusion those people are willing to put up with is astonishing. This is america. Let's keep it that way.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/boston-dynamics-robot-used-on-coronavirus-patients-in-boston-2020-4

 

I am concerned about becoming China by China actually taking over.  Not because of use of an app or contact tracing or Spot robot dog used to do evaluation of patient keeping the doctor at a distance. 

 I think this robot that can be used to decrease medical staff exposure, and thus probably infection and death rate is a very positive development !   

I don’t see it as a sign that USA is becoming China or Singapore.  And as @Matryoshka points out, it’s also US technology. 

 

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

it’s also US technology.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6155903270001#sp=show-clips And yes, this one is US tech too. Doesn't mean it's not astonishing, just like their use of drones. Even according to that Bromage dude outdoors is low risk, but they're barking at people, literally. 

We have to think about how we want to be treated, what it means to be free people, what is just not where we want to be going as a culture. And to me, barking at people, blasting warnings from drones, that's not where we should be going. 

[Scarlett]

46 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Sadly, I think we're fighting a losing war. It's becoming painfully obvious that people are OK with, and want, government intrusion into their lives, and that's where we're heading as humans. (My view on this may be colored because I live in CA, and people on this forum also seem to want it.)

I don’t think it is accurate or honest to say people want government ‘intrusion’.  People want to feel safe.  What is your suggestion to managing a pandemic? 

[Scarlett]

37 minutes ago, square_25 said:

If you're going to worry about privacy, you should probably not have a smart phone at all. Just saying. 

DH was at some point heavily involved with the EFF, working on locational privacy. He said it was really hard to get people to care at the time. At this point, we've all made that trade. 

I think it's reasonable to be concerned about this, but this horse is out of the barn. 

As I said earlier, privacy is an illusion. Have y’all not watched the Jason Bourne movies?  Lol.....kidding only sort of.  If people who are making movies can describe this stuff you can bet it is already in play by someone—probably the government.  What they want to know, they will know.  

[Frances]

7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

All the apps in UK, Australia and discussed for USA have been opt-in.  If you don’t want to participate, don’t.  For the NHS type which I have seen demonstrated on YouTube, you have to download it like other opt-in apps—it doesn’t automatically download. My understanding is that is also true for Australia.  And that is also my understanding for USA potential app use.  

Somewhat like Snapchat friend finding.  If you want to participate to so. If you don’t, don’t.

 

If you don’t want to be found at all you probably better give up smartphones entirely. 

And then some. 

This might be the thing that makes me finally get a smart phone. Honestly, if you’re already using one, it’s not like your every move can’t be traced already unless you don’t carry it with you. I rarely even take my dumb phone with me. I’m not trying to hide anything, I just have no desire to constantly be connected. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Frances

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

As I said earlier, privacy is an illusion. Have y’all not watched the Jason Bourne movies?  Lol.....kidding only sort of.  If people who are making movies can describe this stuff you can bet it is already in play by someone—probably the government.  What they want to know, they will know.  

A few years ago I watched a TV competition show where you won if you successfully evaded authorities. It was pretty eye opening to me about all of the ways people are already tracked and their info recorded.

[Frances]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6155903270001#sp=show-clips And yes, this one is US tech too. Doesn't mean it's not astonishing, just like their use of drones. Even according to that Bromage dude outdoors is low risk, but they're barking at people, literally. 

We have to think about how we want to be treated, what it means to be free people, what is just not where we want to be going as a culture. And to me, barking at people, blasting warnings from drones, that's not where we should be going. 

And I’d rather not have people with loaded guns congregating in large groups during a pandemic, and in some cases putting police at risk for exposure by yelling in their faces. Or as happened in my town over the weekend, a church holding an outdoor hug fest with no masks or social distancing.  I’d also rather we not elect totally incompetent people who couldn’t manage a minor problem in a small town let alone the US during a global pandemic. But here we are.

[MistyMountain]

There already is a lot of data being collected on any person especially if they have a smart phone, use social media or a smart home device. It  keeps track  key words which can be used to advertise. It targets ads based on what you search for and buy. They know there is traffic on the GPS because of how many phones are on the street. Etc... So why is contact tracing to keep a pandemic at bay but also allow businesses to open such a problem that is going to lead to an authoritarian government and turn us into China!? Other countries  like Australia and Europe will turn into China too? The point is to save lives. Yea a lot of places are doing well right now but that is because the actions for those places were proactive rather then reactive which was a good thing. All the measures in place is what kept the situation from being much worse but obviously allowing people to go back to work is also something that needs to happen.

If all measures were stopped then other places besides NYC could get exponential growth. There are other places that have outbreaks and where hospitals are over capacity but there are also obviously places that are doing well and have plenty of hospital space. Contact tracing has worked to keep cases low in places it was tried.  Yes there are asymptomatic spreaders that might not test but there are plenty of people that will test positive. If the on average 2-3 people they could spread it to are not able to spread it then that makes a big difference. 

Progressive politicians are not authoritarian so I don't see how they would use the fact that we had  contact tracing during a pandemic to turn us into China. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by MistyMountain

[Tanaqui]

9 minutes ago, MistyMountain said:

Progressive politicians are not authoritarian so I don't see how they would use the fact that we had  contact tracing during a pandemic to turn us into China. 

 

I agree, but that line of reasoning is unlikely to be persuasive to anybody worried about this. Among other things, they probably largely disagree with your initial premise that "progressive politicians are not authoritarian".

[kiwik]

On 5/11/2020 at 3:27 AM, Janeway said:

A friend who is a doctor and another who is a nurse stopped by the other day. When they arrived, they had their masks on and stayed outside. But I had no mask on and invited them in and they were relieved. And they both told me they will not be doing the vaccine when it comes out. This contact tracing stuff wreaks of wrist tattoos. It would not shock me at all at this point if in the near future, they find a way to label people so when we go out in public, people have to show their mark in order to enter stores or otherwise be in public. And perhaps even marking our homes in a similar way that sex offenders get labeled. 

How.  Contact tracing is.  Mrs Janeway you have Covid 19.  Would you please give it a list of people you may have infected.  Then to those people.  Please let us test you and if you test positive can you please tell us who you have been round.  It is done routinely for all notifiable diseases and has been for years.  If you are negative it stops.  Using an app you have a record of other phones you came into contact with.  

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, kiwik said:

How.  Contact tracing is.  Mrs Janeway you have Covid 19.  Would you please give it a list of people you may have infected.  Then to those people.  Please let us test you and if you test positive can you please tell us who you have been round.  It is done routinely for all notifiable diseases and has been for years.  If you are negative it stops.  Using an app you have a record of other phones you came into contact with.  

And yet someone disclosed in another post that they're banding people who are noncompliant and removing them if they can't quarantine to the state's satisfaction. The document I found said relocating was supposed to be voluntary and that poster was making it sound involuntary. What we allow in moderation, the next generation will do in excess. We already have cities in the US using drones, etc. These are not unreasonable questions to ask why they're doing this, whether we want this in our america. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by PeterPan

[Tanaqui]

Quote

This contact tracing stuff wreaks of wrist tattoos. It would not shock me at all at this point if in the near future, they find a way to label people so when we go out in public, people have to show their mark in order to enter stores or otherwise be in public. And perhaps even marking our homes in a similar way that sex offenders get labeled. 

 

LOL. If we didn't do that during the height of the AIDS crisis, we're sure not gonna do it over Covid-19. No, I don't care what it says in your Revelations/Hunger Games fanfic.

Quote

What we allow in moderation, the next generation will do in excess.

 

Just because you can imagine some sort of moral slippery slope where today we do something you don't really like for a good reason and tomorrow we do something you really hate for a bad reason that doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

[Frances]

9 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

I agree, but that line of reasoning is unlikely to be persuasive to anybody worried about this. Among other things, they probably largely disagree with your initial premise that "progressive politicians are not authoritarian".

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533

[Tanaqui]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533

 

Oh, I have a rule. In my house, we don't say the T-word. I try to give that person as little of my mental headspace as possible. So thanks, but no, I think I'll skip the article. I'll pass you a PDF of "The Authoritarians", though - everybody ought to read it.

https://theauthoritarians.org/Downloads/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

(Note: The author refers to "right wing authoritarianism", but he doesn't at all mean what anybody else means by "right wing". Even if you consider yourself conservative and on the right, he's not talking about you. I wish he'd chosen literally any other term for this.)

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

LOL. If we didn't do that during the height of the AIDS crisis, we're sure not gonna do it over Covid-19.

You know, this is a total aside, but I've been thinking lately about how the scare of HIV/AIDS changed how I view things. I saw blood on a shower curtain at the gym and was like OH NO THERE'S BLOOD, WE'RE ALL DYING!. Now I'm a little crazy, haha. But that scare of blood anywhere, need protection, need chemicals, that really sank in. Seems to me like our new generation will have that again.

[kbutton]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:13 PM, PeterPan said:

What is "asymptomatic surveillance"? The White House is out right now saying this is part of what they're doing, that it's a separate thing from contact tracing. But what exactly is it? Just wondering.

I don't know what the WH means by it, but Ohio is sending out postcards to get random antibody testing. If you get a card, you can choose to get tested or not. The testing people come to your home. You can also refuse when they get to your house if you change your mind. 

21 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Some trivia here. I was trying to figure out what asymptomatic surveillance is and found this document explaining the terms better. https://healthpolicy.duke.edu/sites/default/files/atoms/files/covid-19_surveillance_roadmap_final.pdf  They're saying this is a nationally notifiable situation, so all covid testing results go to the cdc. So much for your anonymity and hippa and all that.

Ditto for flu and sexually transmitted infections. It's been this way FOREVER. 

16 hours ago, Frances said:

And I’d rather not have people with loaded guns congregating in large groups during a pandemic, and in some cases putting police at risk for exposure by yelling in their faces. Or as happened in my town over the weekend, a church holding an outdoor hug fest with no masks or social distancing.  I’d also rather we not elect totally incompetent people who couldn’t manage a minor problem in a small town let alone the US during a global pandemic. But here we are.

Amen. 

And we enable others by our own behavior to a great extent. If we're okay with xyz thing and post it on FB, it emboldens someone else to say, "Hey my sensible friend is okay with xyz, so let's have a hug fest." We're not necessarily responsible for others, but we do have to realize that if we're cavalier, people take it as license to do "more" stuff that has questionable safety.

[Pen]

 

17 hours ago, kbutton said:

Ditto for flu and sexually transmitted infections. It's been this way FOREVER. 

 

It could make an excellent home school history unit.  

Go back at least to the ~ 1831 and following years  cholera epidemic in England and how John Snow figured it out in ~ 1854.  And then proceed to ~ 1878 when USA (Congress) established the system of reporting diseases. 

 

 

17 hours ago, kbutton said:

Amen. 

And we enable others by our own behavior to a great extent. If we're okay with xyz thing and post it on FB, it emboldens someone else to say, "Hey my sensible friend is okay with xyz, so let's have a hug fest." We're not necessarily responsible for others, but we do have to realize that if we're cavalier, people take it as license to do "more" stuff that has questionable safety.

 

Yes. I agree.

 

and I think this also applies to things like 12 year olds committing suicide unfortunately...it can become what people are doing 

[LucyStoner]

A few years ago, someone I know was patient 0 for a local mumps outbreak.  She infected a number of others when she threw a party at her shop/gallery before she knew she herself was sick.  Public health officials traced it back to her when several people who got it said they had all been to this party or to her place of business.  I don't understand what is nefarious about such contact tracing.  We have been doing it for years on a smaller scale for things we have reliable vaccines for (mumps and so many others) and fairly effective life sustaining treatments for (HIV). 

I get why people are concerned about privacy, but I tend to agree that it's a horse out of the gate situation.  I also think efforts could be better channeled towards data security measures and privacy protections with legal teeth vs. taking it as an assault on freedom.  We entrust private companies with a host of personal information voluntarily- from credit cards to contact information for coupon discounts to even what amounts to recreational DNA testing.  Personally, I have more trust in my state's public health officials than I do in Chase Manhattan Bank or Kroger or 23 and Me.  

[LucyStoner]

I find it extra amusing when people rail against it on Facebook because it's like "you do realize where you are when you are saying this stuff?  All of your information is the product that you are giving to FB for free to be on FB that they then turn around and sell to get you to buy sh!t".  

Edited May 13, 2020 by LucyStoner

[Lanny]

I received an email from Coursera.Org this morning.   

Free course: COVID-19 Contact Tracing from Johns Hopkins University

https://www.coursera.org/learn/covid-19-contact-tracing?edocomorp=covid-19-contact-tracing

Possibly of interest to someone here. This is a MOOC course.

 

 

[PeterPan]

You can't make this stuff up, lol. There's a *federal* level contact tracing bill being supported by 60 in the House, and it's literally HR 6666. 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6666?s=1&r=2

 

[Ausmumof3]

On 5/12/2020 at 9:22 AM, PeterPan said:

Some trivia here. I was trying to figure out what asymptomatic surveillance is and found this document explaining the terms better. https://healthpolicy.duke.edu/sites/default/files/atoms/files/covid-19_surveillance_roadmap_final.pdf  They're saying this is a nationally notifiable situation, so all covid testing results go to the cdc. So much for your anonymity and hippa and all that.

Under test/trace/quaratine the doc suggests that test/trace is to replace community level mitigation (fair) and that they do NOT accept widespread acceptance of an app based approach, which is why they were going for people driven.

It says isolation outside the home should be voluntary (page 10) and that there is an Office of Civil Rights (OCR) that is setting up guidelines.

And just for @Dreamergal this OCR doc https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/notification-enforcement-discretion-hipaa.pdf  shows how HIPAA will connect to all this. Looks like basically it's reported no matter who you talk with because it's a nationally notifiable issue. No getting around it. 

So you know, when I read what this document says and intends, I'm really proud of them. I don't think it will work (considering the % of asymptomatic and presymptomatic it won't net) and I think it's illogical, not being evenly applied to other serious issues, and a pandora's box that will lead the next more "progressive" politician to even farther extremes through the open door. But I'm proud of them for trying. Ending this massive shutdown of so much of the economy and gross level mitigation is worthy. But when I read what someone here said they're doing in KY, I'm appalled and hope they sue their butts off. There still has to be a balance of protection of civil liberties. If people want this NOT to turn into China, they have to keep fighting it.

Did you see on the news today these stupid robot dogs they're using in Singapore?? I mean, the level of harassment and intrusion those people are willing to put up with is astonishing. This is america. Let's keep it that way.

We just finished reading Fahrenheit 451 for school and those robot dogs sure were creeping us out! 

[Ausmumof3]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:03 AM, LucyStoner said:

A few years ago, someone I know was patient 0 for a local mumps outbreak.  She infected a number of others when she threw a party at her shop/gallery before she knew she herself was sick.  Public health officials traced it back to her when several people who got it said they had all been to this party or to her place of business.  I don't understand what is nefarious about such contact tracing.  We have been doing it for years on a smaller scale for things we have reliable vaccines for (mumps and so many others) and fairly effective life sustaining treatments for (HIV). 

I get why people are concerned about privacy, but I tend to agree that it's a horse out of the gate situation.  I also think efforts could be better channeled towards data security measures and privacy protections with legal teeth vs. taking it as an assault on freedom.  We entrust private companies with a host of personal information voluntarily- from credit cards to contact information for coupon discounts to even what amounts to recreational DNA testing.  Personally, I have more trust in my state's public health officials than I do in Chase Manhattan Bank or Kroger or 23 and Me.  

There’s one example that happened in Aus which isn’t ideal.  There was a doctor here that treated patients and then got diagnosed with Covid.  He did have a slight sore throat and probably should have made the decision not to work but didn’t make the connection  because it was early days.  Only media managed to work out he was a well known local singers father and there was a big fuss and lots of negative attention around it.

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

There’s one example that happened in Aus which isn’t ideal.  There was a doctor here that treated patients and then got diagnosed with Covid.  He did have a slight sore throat and probably should have made the decision not to work but didn’t make the connection  because it was early days.  Only media managed to work out he was a well known local singers father and there was a big fuss and lots of negative attention around it.

Oh there's a whole lot of stupidity to go around. I just saw a news report last night about a county level govt (here in the US) that has to shut down and disinfect to the tune of $10k because one employee who is married to a sheriff who GOT SICK AND WAS DIAGNOSED came into work. And she's like oh, I called the doctor and he said it was fine as long as I felt fine and didn't have a temp! LOL 

Just can't help stupid. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

You can't make this stuff up, lol. There's a *federal* level contact tracing bill being supported by 60 in the House, and it's literally HR 6666. 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6666?s=1&r=2

The fourth 6 makes it okay. 😉 

[Innisfree]

Here's a good article on how contact tracing works in practice. 

Quote

This narrative has emerged that either we lift all our social distancing measures and let the virus burn through the population, or we hunker down at home forever and let the economy collapse, but that is a false choice,” said Dr. Crystal Watson, an assistant professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and lead author of a white paper on how the United States can scale up its abilities to identify and trace COVID-19 cases.

“We have this tool — contact tracing — and if we spend some effort and funding on actually building up our capacities, we can control transmission, get back to work much more safely and avoid unnecessary loss of thousands of lives.”

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/you-dont-need-invasive-tech-for-successful-contact-tracing-heres-how-it-works/amp__twitter_impression=true

[Valley Girl]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:29 AM, PeterPan said:

Oh there's a whole lot of stupidity to go around. I just saw a news report last night about a county level govt (here in the US) that has to shut down and disinfect to the tune of $10k because one employee who is married to a sheriff who GOT SICK AND WAS DIAGNOSED came into work. And she's like oh, I called the doctor and he said it was fine as long as I felt fine and didn't have a temp! LOL 

Just can't help stupid. 

But who's being stupid in that case? If she accurately described the situation to the doctor (i.e. said her husband was symptomatic and diagnosed) and was told she was OK to go to work OR her husband's doctor failed to offer direction as to what the rest of the family should do in response after he diagnosed the husband, then I'm all for labeling the medical personnel stupid. If she ignored the direction to stay home, then she's the one who's stupid. I'm not sure I'd call her stupid if she were genuinely following the actual advice she was given--despite WTM expectations about what people should or should not know.

 

[Janeway]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:12 AM, Scarlett said:

What in the world are you talking about?  Contact tracers ask for those people you had close contact with.  If you are interested in understanding this process you can look up how ‘close contact’ is defined, and it is not possible to have close contact with 1000 people in one day.  And what the what about tracking your phone.  Where are you getting the idea they are going to track your phone? And how would that identify the 1000 people you saw on any given day? 

Google contact tracing with cell phones and you will see that this is one of the methods being used. 

[Janeway]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:02 AM, Pen said:

 

I have no way to know how many people you have daily close contact with nor rates for your county—I’ll accept those as accurate, though I must say that I am taken aback to hear you have close contacts with over 1000 people daily even though you apparently are not an “essential services” worker. 

 

But how did you decide that a minimum of 80% of cases have no symptoms? 

And why are people with diabetes in your area doing worse? 

I got the 80% from WHO  

 

As far as what I said about Diabetes, you can do a search for it and see many articles referencing the diabetes. But here is one article...you can find many on this topics.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/diabetes-and-coronavirus#1

[Pen]

 

On 5/11/2020 at 6:50 AM, Janeway said:

Meanwhile, our economy collapses, people with diabetes are doing worse

 

Wtm multiquote doesn’t work for me.   I am aware that diabetes is a risk factor for worse outcomes from Covid19. But what I understood above was that you are against Stay Home orders because it causes diabetes to get worse, and the link you gave to back that up does not.  

I would think that Stay Home rules tend to help protect vulnerable people with diabetes, not make them worse.

 

 

On 5/11/2020 at 6:50 AM, Janeway said:

I think unless we recover our economy, our people, and we allow a number of people to get Covid (considering a minimum of 80% have no symptoms and therefore, won't know they have it unless there is general testing anyway), then in the fall, with very few people having antibodies and the flu season coming up, and cold weather and everything, Covid will be even more deadly. 

 

And I do not see anywhere on what you posted that backs up the 80% have no symptoms. 

If it is a screenshot, could you do a mark up and circle the spot it says that in some bright contrasting color, please. 

 

[Pen]

56 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I got the 80% from WHO  

 

Where is the 80%? 

56 minutes ago, Janeway said:

As far as what I said about Diabetes, you can do a search for it and see many articles referencing the diabetes. But here is one article...you can find many on this topics.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/diabetes-and-coronavirus#1

 

This seems to relate to diabetes being a risk factor for severe CV19 outcomes. I know that.  

How do you think that justifies letting more people get sick which I think was your point.

 

[Pen]

@Janeway  — have you somewhere seen that 80% of Covid19 cases are considered “mild” and interpreted that to mean symptom free?

 

”Mild” can include no symptoms, but it also can include people who feel almost deathly ill, the worst they have felt in their life—for months—or on and off for months, but not bad off enough to need hospitalization.   And everything in between. 

 

[Pen]

@Janeway @Reefgazer - and others who seem to think everyone should just go ahead and get it... 

https://youtu.be/CWRVXxTdgYs

 

[Scarlett]

On 5/11/2020 at 8:50 AM, Janeway said:

So basically, yesterday alone, I had to have come in contact with over 1000 people. I went to a few stores, I walked down Main Street. I took a train, and went to the grocery, and played at the park. Two days earlier, I went to a park and hiked all over it and other people were there. On Saturday, I went to a variety of stores. Every day, I pretty much go somewhere and I go walking. Because of the inventory at stores, I frequently go to 2-3 stores on a day just for grocery type items and other such things. So if I test positive, someone is going to track my phone and track everyone else's phones and data and everything and find out the thousands of people I have been on contact with and demand they quarantine, and then the thousands of people they have been in contact with, and so on? Meanwhile, our economy collapses, people with diabetes are doing worse (which is what makes people actually die from this virus, uncontrolled blood sugar is the top precursor for death with Covid), children are committing suicide and of those who don't, some are being abused, depressed, and most are gaining weight....and in the end, my county has a 0.002% death rate from Covid. At this point, the shut down appears to be more of a social experiment than science.  I have been reading over studies and articles, including from CNN and WHO and I think that continuing the shutdown at this point is a very bad thing. I accept that we likely will have to re-shutdown next flu season, but I think unless we recover our economy, our people, and we allow a number of people to get Covid (considering a minimum of 80% have no symptoms and therefore, won't know they have it unless there is general testing anyway), then in the fall, with very few people having antibodies and the flu season coming up, and cold weather and everything, Covid will be even more deadly. 

 

10 hours ago, Janeway said:

Google contact tracing with cell phones and you will see that this is one of the methods being used. 

I had to go back and find your original post from 10 days ago to figure out what you were referencing.....

I was questioning the bolded above.  That entire sentence is full of extreme language.  They are not doing digital contact tracing in the US and even in the places where they are doing it, it isn't quite like that.