How can the President order meat-packing plants to continue operations? (Logistical, not political!)

[Ginevra]

How do you demand people go work at the chicken plant or the pork processors if they are sick or transmitting a virus? What are the plant managers supposed to do for a work force if half the workers are ill for the next several weeks? 

Let’s leave aside the politics of this...I am asking, logistically, how do you operate a plant with a sick workforce? And, unless I’m much mistaken, usually such processing plants are in more rural areas where the majority of the local population is employed by the plant. So - where do you get people to work at the plant if the usual workers are in hospital, at home on their beds, or, god forbid, dead? 

[Joker]

I've been wondering the same thing. A nearby county here with a Tyson plant went from almost zero cases to over 1000 rather quickly and the plant had to close. I'm angry that those people are supposed to be forced to work in awful conditions and while so many are sick. 

ETA: I wish we could just take a moment and figure out how to make it safer for the employees rather than just force them open. Some of the comments by family of employees on local news stories are awful.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Joker

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

 

I think you missed the point of the question.  How can a plant stay "open and running" without enough people to do the work?

Exactly. That is my question. Who does the work if most of the local population is ill? 

[Joker]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Exactly. That is my question. Who does the work if most of the local population is ill? 

Yeah, I think this county is the only one in my state that imposed mandatory masks when out. They now have a huge problem because of the illness spreading through the plant. I don't understand who the heck is supposed to work there now.

From what I understand, there are a couple of things going on.  At least one of the plants was closed, not by management, but by local authorities.  Not getting into states' rights vs federalism, but presumably an executive order could try to override the local order.  Now, as you point out, how well the plant would be able to operate if half the employees are out sick is an open question.  I guess, in theory,  the state or federal government could send in the national guard or other troops to try to help operate the plant, but who knows how long it would take to train new people?  The other thing this order did was to try to reduce the legal liability meat cutting plants would face if they were responsible for their workers getting sick.  Presumably, this would encourage any companies that voluntarily shut down to stay open.

At the end of the day, though, OP is spot on -- without healthy workers, these plants can't operate, even if they are "open" in some sense.

 

[Miss Tick]

I assume it is more of a money thing, like what @plum outlined. If the plant has to stay open but doesn't have workers, maybe they get federal relief, maybe they get government money to clean and reconfigure, maybe they don't have to pay workers (sick out healthy), or maybe they do have to pay workers, or something more complicated. It is a money thing, though, not a production thing.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Quote

 

I do not understand it at all. I've been following a local plant where 200 workers tested positive and 2 died. (In a state that never officially shut down and now has the fastest-growing Covid-19 positives 🤨). Although some workers probably come from other towns, the population of the town where the plant is located is only 1900. The Covid rate for the county is 24 cases per 1000 people, compared large cities in the state where the numbers are less than 2 per thousand. The plant actually shut down on April 6 and reopened on April 20. I don't know how it's working out.

There are simply not enough healthy people nearby to keep a plant like this operating. And I'm betting that the factories aren't going to pay enough to entice people to drive a long distance to perform grueling, horrific work. 

Edit: I don't know why the quote box is there, I didn't try to quote anyone! And I can't seem to get rid of it. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by OH_Homeschooler

[HS Mom in NC]

My guess is a couple of options: hiring temporary workers and using the National Guard.  I have a FB friend in AZ who's a National Guard chaplain.  They're already helping with food distribution in cities and medical equipment on tribal land.

https://www.pinalcentral.com/covid-19/national-guard-assists-as-lighthouse-ministry-serves-more-than-700-families/article_cc0985e5-6aba-594f-8c50-3b4aa9de9e17.html?fbclid=IwAR0ufGI61fwoYKCivnfIuM7e8wMH4fcmpIuDQUo2a2GOAmfvlIMnI54CwDk#utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

I do not understand it at all. I've been following a local plant where 200 workers tested positive and 2 died. (In a state that never officially shut down and now has the fastest-growing Covid-19 positives 🤨). Although some workers probably come from other towns, the population of the town where the plant is located is only 1900. The Covid rate for the county is 24 cases per 1000 people, compared large cities in the state where the numbers are less than 2 per thousand. The plant actually shut down on April 6 and reopened on April 20. I don't know how it's working out.

There are simply not enough healthy people nearby to keep a plant like this operating. And I'm betting that the factories aren't going to pay enough to entice people to drive a long distance to perform grueling, horrific work. 

That’s pretty much where my head was going. I don’t think that is an unusual scenario for meat processing throughout the US. 

[Bootsie]

35 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 

Not having read much about the order (he just signed it last night, right?) I can't really speak to all the details.  But there very much is a difference between ordering people to work sick and ordering the plant to stay open and I think it's important to remember that.

Thank you for this.  I don't know, like I said, I don't have all the details, but that certainly all makes sense.  Various places have called in national guard to pass out food at food banks, I could see using them to staff food processing facilities as part of the essential supply chain.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2020/04/11/national-guard-prestige-ameritech.html

The National Guard is working in the Prestige Ameritech plant in Texas to help increase the production of masks.  

[prairiewindmomma]

On the logistics ends of things, meat packing plants have roughly the same amount of factory line as they had fifteen years ago but they have added tons of workers. They added workers to increase productivity without going to the cost of expanding their plants. So, they should be able to continue processing with fewer works, productivity will just fall.

My understanding is that they wanted a liability waiver because people were dying from exposure in the plants.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

From my understanding, it is a strategic move to keep the supply chain working. We have a pork processing plant in our area that has seen an increase in positive COVID-19 cases which is forcing the plant to shut down. Local experts are predicting multiple pork farmers will go bankrupt since there is nowhere to take the pigs for processing, there will be a pork shortage (coming soon), and the price of pork will increase (double or triple); this will last for months. Workers (most of whom are recent immigrants and live in multigenerational housing) are going to be unemployed and will not have adequate income or ways to shelter-in-place safely. They are expecting a dramatic increase in COVID-19 cases in our county and the neighboring county. They are also expecting a greater demand on socio-economic resources as hundreds of individuals request assistance.  The town where the plant is located is already seeing economic impacts; double from what they had before due to the college closing for the semester and the general economic impact from the stay-at-home order.

Anecdote: A local pork farmer had 4000 pigs that were raised with the intention of having them butchered and processed in April. Due to the reduction in hours of the pork processing plant (and now the shutdown), he has nowhere to take his pigs. Some have suggested he just continue to feed them until the plants are up and running. Evidently his breed of pig was bred to grow quickly and produce the biggest pig possible in the shortest amount of time. The pigs are at butchering weight (something like 300 pounds). The farmer can no longer afford to feed 4000 300+# pigs.; pigs he has already fed weeks longer than he anticipated. The pigs are experiencing problems with their health because many of them are overweight and are in pig confinement with other now-overweight pigs; confinements that were only meant to be temporary holds not permanent residences. As a result, the farmer offered his pigs to anyone who could take one. He managed to get rid of around 1000 animals. The other 3000 he shot over the weekend. He has to wait a while until the sows are able to be bred again and the local plants are up and running and accepting pigs for processing.

This is not an isolated  case. Multiple farmers in our area are doing the same thing. Not only with pigs but with chickens, as well.

Edited April 29, 2020 by The Accidental Coach

[MEmama]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/business/meat-processing-plant-workers-reaction-executive-order/index.html

[umsami]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

How do you demand people go work at the chicken plant or the pork processors if they are sick or transmitting a virus? What are the plant managers supposed to do for a work force if half the workers are ill for the next several weeks? 

Let’s leave aside the politics of this...I am asking, logistically, how do you operate a plant with a sick workforce? And, unless I’m much mistaken, usually such processing plants are in more rural areas where the majority of the local population is employed by the plant. So - where do you get people to work at the plant if the usual workers are in hospital, at home on their beds, or, god forbid, dead? 

I wonder if he's going to insist on prisoners come work there or something else. It's scary, actually. 

2 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

if workers don't show up, someone will. I am not sure of the who. 

 

Do you know how to butcher a pig?  Safely?  I don't.

Edited April 29, 2020 by GGardner

[umsami]

21 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

This is the first decision that seems pro-active rather than re-active to me after this mess descended. Even though this is a hard decision, it must be done. You cannot be killing 2 million chickens and dumping milk and breaking eggs and plowing fields because the ways to get it from production to market are broken and and still say we have enough food. What is the point of having "enough food" if we are throwing it away at the source and empty shelves at the market ? Can you imagine the run if 80% of the meat supply is gone. The cutesy reply of let us all go vegetarian does not work here for what happens at the meat plants will be happening in the fields. All rotting. 

This is the first step I think in addressing the food supply. This is absolutely needed. It had to come under the civil defense act under my understanding of it as "emergency food, clothing...". Food is vital. Many countries have addressed their food supply somewhat as in ban exports. This includes things like rice in Asia. Exports are a big part their economy so to do that tells how serious they are. Starvation is a real possibility all over the world because of lack of food. In America it could become a possibility if we keep throwing away food recklessly. So this is the best decision., actually the only decision. Guidelines will be established, money will be spent to reconfigure the way I understand it to do it safely. Not everyone can grow a garden, have chickens or knows how to do it. So, I will roast the man for certain comments, but this is the first pro-active thing I am really pleased with. 

But it's not realistic unless the government is paying the costs of all this.  They need to pay the costs for milking the cows, transporting, and bottling the milk to send to food banks. They'll have to pay for the extra PPE, protective equipment, training, etc. required for new workers. Untrained people doing animal butchering will just lead to massive food-borne illnesses...and the FDA already suspended routine food surveillance inspections..  One cannot force for-profit companies to take that onto themselves and go bankrupt. 

 

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-focuses-safety-regulated-products-while-scaling-back-domestic

 

"

Earlier this month, we announced that we are postponing most foreign facility inspections through April and that inspections outside the U.S. deemed mission-critical will be considered on a case-by-case basis as this outbreak continues to unfold.

Today, we’re announcing that for the health and well-being of our staff and those who conduct inspections for the agency under contract at the state level, and because of industry concerns about visitors, we have temporarily postponed all domestic routine surveillance facility inspections. These are facility inspections the FDA traditionally conducts every few years based on a risk analysis. Importantly, all domestic for-cause inspection assignments will be evaluated and will proceed if mission-critical. "

Edited April 29, 2020 by umsami

[MEmama]

Of course this primarily hurts the actual workers, who are now faced with either refusing to work in unsafe conditions, be fired and thus not be eligible for unemployment, or go to work knowing that it may very well be a death sentence to themselves or their family. Leaving positive change up to the company masters has never worked and is nothing but a tired myth. 

The liability waiver is just icing on the cake for large corporations. Workers are expendable but profits are not, dontchaknow. The waivers “solve the problem” sayz the prez. The buck stops anywhere but where it should. 

[MEmama]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

That doesn't really give the details of the actual order.  

 

 

Um, right. It’s a reaction. Right there in the headline even. 

[MEmama]

6 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

This is part of critical infrastructure now as part of the civil defense act, if workers don't show up, someone will. I am not sure of the who. But this is absolutely needed for food supply not being broken. One of the reasons immigration was frozen at the green card level and not at the visa level was because the visa level had workers who work in the fields  So they are addressing the food supply which is very vital. 

Um, no. Have you been to South Dakota and the other very underpopulated states where this kind of work often gets done?  The “who” is a very real concern. And anyway it’s not like people are just replaceable?
As for immigration, smh. 

Also, I’d encourage anyone who is concerned about factory farm/slaughterhouses to go vegetarian. Lol. Factory meat isn’t vital in the least. 

[prairiewindmomma]

These factories have had multiple fines in recent years for unsafe working conditions.  Amputations, chemical burns, respiratory issues.... I had hoped that having a bright light on these factories would lead to stories on how to make factories safer for workers but I am only seeing stories on the covid aspect.  One would think that increasing ventilation, spreading out workers, and expanding production line length could actually solve multiple problems...

[TechWife]

5 minutes ago, umsami said:

But it's not realistic unless the government is paying the costs of all this.  They need to pay the costs for milking the cows, transporting, and bottling the milk to send to food banks. They'll have to pay for the extra PPE, protective equipment, training, etc. required for new workers. One cannot force for-profit companies to take that onto themselves and go bankrupt. 

Costs for extra PPE & training for new workers, yes. However, the costs for milking cows and transportation are already figured in to their pricing structure. I think that the government should only step in to help with these costs if the rerouting of distribution lines increases the cost beyond what the end consumer can bear. Due to high unemployment,  any significant cost increase for the end consumer could prove to be disastrous, but it remains to be seen if the new routes of distribution will be more or less expensive than the current routes.

[Pam in CT]

13 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

That doesn't really give the details of the actual order.  

 

 

 

Here is the text of the order.  It's not long, and does not go into some of the details described in this thread (i.e., the designation provides a basis for deployment of National Guard/ other federal workers, the designation provides protection to companies against litigation by workers or meat consumers in the event of contagion, the designation overrides state or municipal orders, the designation has the effect (whether or not intended) of rendering workers who are sick / confirmed positive though asymptomatic / concerned about transmission to their families ineligible for unemployment).  

But I believe (IANAL) that it does provide some basis of all of these (some of which would have to be litigated to know, much of this is unchartered water).

Edited April 29, 2020 by Pam in CT

[MEmama]

9 minutes ago, Plum said:

I’ve learned to avoid man on the street/employee reactions. Most of the time, they don’t know what is going to happen or what they are seeing so we get pure gut reaction and speculation.
I intend to wait and see what gets implemented before making any judgements. 

Oh me too. I just saw this while simultaneously reading this thread and thought it might be of interest to someone.

The idea that “if work is open they will come no matter the cost” is already tired.

[TechWife]

I don't think that it was even on the radar of the people who wrote the Defense Production Act that showing up to work could be life threatening. It's not like they can sound an air raid siren and send workers to shelters for COVID-19. Safety precautions are the equivalent of an air raid shelter and it's really foolish that they weren't part of the Executive Order.

[Amy in NH]

14 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Of course this primarily hurts the actual workers, who are now faced with either refusing to work in unsafe conditions, be fired and thus not be eligible for unemployment, or go to work knowing that it may very well be a death sentence to themselves or their family. Leaving positive change up to the company masters has never worked and is nothing but a tired myth. 

The liability waiver is just icing on the cake for large corporations. Workers are expendable but profits are not, dontchaknow. The waivers “solve the problem” sayz the prez. The buck stops anywhere but where it should. 

 

This is exactly it! 

The reason for the order is unemployment and business liability.  They don't care about the workers, and in fact set in place policies that are actually bad for workers.

[Pam in CT]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I don't think that it was even on the radar of the people who wrote the Defense Production Act that showing up to work could be life threatening. It's not like they can sound an air raid siren and send workers to shelters for COVID-19. Safety precautions are the equivalent of an air raid shelter and it's really foolish that they weren't part of the Executive Order.

It is metaphors like this one that are helpful to me in re-orienting my own head around what really is the problem here.  Thanks.

 

 

[TechWife]

6 minutes ago, Plum said:

FTR I don’t think National Guard will be sent to process meat on the line. They have been put in positions of testing and monitoring to reinforce the FDA and USDA inspectors. I could be wrong but NG so far has not been put in a position of replacing workers, only supporting them logistically and medically. 

They are involved in mask manufacturing in Texas. Why the company didn't hire private citizens in these times of high unemployment is beyond my imagination.

[Slache]

How catastrophic would it be if these places closed down? I like meat and I would be inconvenienced if it was more expensive or hard to come by, but there are so many other dietary options. Is this truly necessary? Or would we not have enough food if they closed?

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok, so going through it..

This part here makes it sound like it does have something to do with state/local authorities forcing closures, and needing to declare the plants as part of essential services so that the state and local governments can't continue to force closures.

And this part sounds like it's specifically about making sure the resources are there to put both safety measures and labor in place

 

In general though, it's really pretty vague.  

And I didn't see anything that I thought was about removing liability from the plants (in terms of sick workers being able to sue the company) but it's possible I am misunderstanding some parts.  

 

The problem with this is that the heads of these departments are political appointees. They can be influenced by political goals and even removed from their positions for political ends. Prior to the executive order, the executive branch should have taken time to work with OSHA, USDA and FDA to determine what safe working conditions would look like and to mandate them in the executive order.

Another thing that people haven't yet addressed in this thread is food safety. What research has taken place to determine the presence of COVID-19 on processed food products and to determine which, if any, cooking methods & temperatures kill the virus? To me this is critical - it isn't enough to process the food. People aren't going to eat it if it makes them sick or if they aren't sure if it will make them sick.

[Frances]

52 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

This is the first decision that seems pro-active rather than re-active to me after this mess descended. Even though this is a hard decision, it must be done. You cannot be killing 2 million chickens and dumping milk and breaking eggs and plowing fields because the ways to get it from production to market are broken and and still say we have enough food. What is the point of having "enough food" if we are throwing it away at the source and empty shelves at the market ? Can you imagine the run if 80% of the meat supply is gone. The cutesy reply of let us all go vegetarian does not work here for what happens at the meat plants will be happening in the fields. All rotting. 

This is the first step I think in addressing the food supply. This is absolutely needed. It had to come under the civil defense act under my understanding of it as "emergency food, clothing...". Food is vital. Many countries have addressed their food supply somewhat as in ban exports. This includes things like rice in Asia. Exports are a big part their economy so to do that tells how serious they are. Starvation is a real possibility all over the world because of lack of food. In America it could become a possibility if we keep throwing away food recklessly. So this is the best decision., actually the only decision. Guidelines will be established, money will be spent to reconfigure the way I understand it to do it safely. Not everyone can grow a garden, have chickens or knows how to do it. So, I will roast the man for certain comments, but this is the first pro-active thing I am really pleased with. 

I would have to disagree on the proactive part. The governor of IA should have been on top of this much earlier and requesting federal assistance. It’s devastating to watch what is going on in my small hometown.

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, Slache said:

How catastrophic would it be if these places closed down? I like meat and I would be inconvenienced if it was more expensive or hard to come by, but there are so many other dietary options. Is this truly necessary? Or would we not have enough food if they closed?

There is probably a set of people who need meat in their diets and while there are some non-meat options for protein, meat certainly is part of that need. For the general population, though, restricting meat intake would not cause starvation unless the produce & dairy food distribution lines aren't corrected. The people who raise livestock would run into issues and may need help re-configuring their spaces and with feed costs.

[historically accurate]

7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok, so going through it..

This part here makes it sound like it does have something to do with state/local authorities forcing closures, and needing to declare the plants as part of essential services so that the state and local governments can't continue to force closures.

And this part sounds like it's specifically about making sure the resources are there to put both safety measures and labor in place

 

In general though, it's really pretty vague.  

And I didn't see anything that I thought was about removing liability from the plants (in terms of sick workers being able to sue the company) but it's possible I am misunderstanding some parts.  

A county close to me closed a Hormel plant recently because of an outbreak. The Hormel plant draws from several rural counties, and the outbreak was spreading throughout the whole area which had been somewhat sheltered from Covid19 before. IE: my rural county which touches Ogle County didn't have any confirmed cases until 4/4. 

This article also explains that the Health Department had tried to assist in recommendations for controlling the outbreak and been unsuccessful, they chose to close it. The paragraph describing that could be read as either management chose not to do those things or management was just unable to control it. I do not know how long it was/is shut down for. https://abc7chicago.com/hormel-foods-plant-shut-down-shutdown/6113103/

[Amy in NH]

13 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

And I didn't see anything that I thought was about removing liability from the plants (in terms of sick workers being able to sue the company)

The President's own words yesterday: "“We’re going to sign an executive order today, I believe, and that’ll solve any liability problems”

[Bootsie]

5 minutes ago, TechWife said:

They are involved in mask manufacturing in Texas. Why the company didn't hire private citizens in these times of high unemployment is beyond my imagination.

I can't speak to the specifics of this manufacturing plant, but I think this provides a way for the company to quickly increase production without increasing its costs.  It is difficult to hire new workers overnight.  You have to put out a notice, collect information, make sure that they are legally allowed to work in the US, make sure that you are not being discriminatory in your hiring--all while your HR staff is working remotely.  You have to interview the people and contact their references.  All of these newly hired workers have to be added to your insurance program, retirement program, etc.  

All of this background work is eliminated with using the National Guard.  And, you have a group of people who will show up to work and who will take orders.  Also, you don't have the problems, after a temporary surge in need for workers passes, of laying off the workers.

[TechWife]

7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think it's been stated by the CDC pretty often in the last month that this isn't really transmitted through food.  And I don't think there has been any evidence of any transmission through food in all of the restaurants that are already cooking food prepared by people.

I can't disagree with taking the time to work with OSHA, USDA, etc on safe working conditions.  That doesn't mean that the order isn't necessary or that it's a bad thing.  

I seem to remember hearing something about food being safe, but that presumes that the people involved in it's production are healthy and taking appropriate precautions. With the absence of that piece in the EO, that assurance is diminished. If the food supply chain remains safe, they are going to need to expend some serious effort in educating people as to how they know that & how they are guaranteeing that. I've seen reports that regular inspections at these facilities have decreased due to the fact that some of the inspectors have become ill themselves. What are they doing to preserve and enhance the inspection process to make sure our food supply is not only save from transmitting COVID-19, that workers don't get ill or hurt on the job, and that the existing, known causes of food contamination don't become an issue?

Edited April 29, 2020 by TechWife

[TechWife]

This is a fascinating conversation, but work calls. I'll check in later this afternoon to see how we have solved the world problems. I really think the government entities should crowd-source these problems, people can be amazing at coming up with solutions.

[Frances]

Just now, Dreamergal said:

I have no clue about individual towns or states. All I I know is food supply was not being addressed and people were sanguine about throwing food away or produce rotting saying it is k as it was part of the school supply and not to worry as we have "plenty of food". Well, this has been addressed at the national level and made critical supply as it should be and part of the civil defense act. This is very pro-active to me, though a bit late. I was waiting for this exact thing to be addressed and it has so it is proactive to me. 

It’s not as though the governor of IA did not know the working conditions in these plants before this and how difficult it would be to stop the spread if even one worker was sick. They should have stepped in much earlier to provide whatever assistance was needed to make them safe for the workers. Now many are sick and have spread it throughout their small communities.

[marbel]

37 minutes ago, Slache said:

How catastrophic would it be if these places closed down? I like meat and I would be inconvenienced if it was more expensive or hard to come by, but there are so many other dietary options. Is this truly necessary? Or would we not have enough food if they closed?

In the short term, what are farmers going to do with those animals?  The WSJ had an article about this today; this blew my mind:  "around 100,000 pigs due to be sent to slaughter each day this week will have to be held back on farms."  It goes on to say that likely some will be euthanized.  Someone above said a farmer shot pigs he couldn't feed or sell.  

Farming has always been risky but that takes it to a whole new level in my mind. 

So, maybe not catastrophic for many/most consumers, but it represents a huge catastrophe for these farmers. 

Also, as has been said, many people do depend on meat. One of my kids very much seems to need meat for general well-being.  Could they adjust?  Maybe, probably. (I mean my  kids, not the general population.)

Edited April 29, 2020 by marbel

[Joker]

We can't even get our health care workers adequate protection so I highly doubt the order is going to do that for meat packing plants. It's only about money and liability IMO.
 

[marbel]

12 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Well, I read a story about a mask manufacturer in TX, Austin I think. He was talking about during SARS I think when all hospitals were ordering masks from him and he had to up infrastructure with his own money, hire about 150 people and once the crisis passed, the hospitals went back to ordering from China because it was cheaper. He had to let 150 people go. At the beginning of this, when people were looking for masks and he was getting letters from people with special needs kids begging for masks, he said he felt helpless, but he will only ramp up production if hospitals will sign a 5 year contract. I can't source that story now, this was around March.

I have read about that as well, and saw a reference to it today on another thread, with a link (I believe) but I can't find it now; there are so  many related threads I can't keep up.

Edited April 29, 2020 by marbel

[Bootsie]

4 minutes ago, marbel said:

I have read about that as well, and saw a reference to it today on another thread, with a link (I believe) but I can't find it now; there are so  many related threads I can't keep up.

The company is Prestige Ameritech and they or located in a suburb of Fort Worth.  There have been a number of articles about them in the press recently.

[Amy in NH]

23 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

The President's own words yesterday: "“We’re going to sign an executive order today, I believe, and that’ll solve any liability problems”

 

22 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Yeah, that's pretty vague too lol

His words are a direct response to this:

Corporate America seeks legal protection for when coronavirus lockdowns lift

US businesses want immunity from coronavirus lawsuits

The Coronavirus Lawsuits Are Coming: Legal experts predict a wave of coronavirus litigation, mainly from employees, against companies staying operational during the pandemic.

Workers face 'uphill battle' proving firms liable if they catch COVID-19 as economy reopens
 

Businesses Seek Sweeping Shield From Pandemic Liability Before They Reopen

A Solution to the Covid-19 Liability Problem

Is that less vague?

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, The Accidental Coach said:

From my understanding, it is a strategic move to keep the supply chain working. We have a pork processing plant in our area that has seen an increase in positive COVID-19 cases which is forcing the plant to shut down. Local experts are predicting multiple pork farmers will go bankrupt since there is nowhere to take the pigs for processing, there will be a pork shortage (coming soon), and the price of pork will increase (double or triple); this will last for months. Workers (most of whom are recent immigrants and live in multigenerational housing) are going to be unemployed and will not have adequate income or ways to shelter-in-place safely. They are expecting a dramatic increase in COVID-19 cases in our county and the neighboring county. They are also expecting a greater demand on socio-economic resources as hundreds of individuals request assistance.  The town where the plant is located is already seeing economic impacts; double from what they had before due to the college closing for the semester and the general economic impact from the stay-at-home order.

Anecdote: A local pork farmer had 4000 pigs that were raised with the intention of having them butchered and processed in April. Due to the reduction in hours of the pork processing plant (and now the shutdown), he has nowhere to take his pigs. Some have suggested he just continue to feed them until the plants are up and running. Evidently his breed of pig was bred to grow quickly and produce the biggest pig possible in the shortest amount of time. The pigs are at butchering weight (something like 300 pounds). The farmer can no longer afford to feed 4000 300+# pigs.; pigs he has already fed weeks longer than he anticipated. The pigs are experiencing problems with their health because many of them are overweight and are in pig confinement with other now-overweight pigs; confinements that were only meant to be temporary holds not permanent residences. As a result, the farmer offered his pigs to anyone who could take one. He managed to get rid of around 1000 animals. The other 3000 he shot over the weekend. He has to wait a while until the sows are able to be bred again and the local plants are up and running and accepting pigs for processing.

This is not an isolated  case. Multiple farmers in our area are doing the same thing. Not only with pigs but with chickens, as well.

Do you have some links to this? As a farming family, I like to follow the news on this kinds of thing.

[rebcoola]

I'm probably late but I don't get it.  Are they not allowed to close at all?  We have a lot food processing in the area.  2 plants here had outbreaks one closed as soon as they had a case, screened every employee, put in new safety measures and was back to work in a couple of days and is doing fine.  The other well known company  stayed open until they had so many cases they had to close and no one wants to work there.  

[Paige]

I think it's important to protect the food supply. I don't think everyone can just go vegetarian in such a short time frame because the vegetarian food suppliers aren't prepared for the demand of everyone needing to eat without meat within a few months.

I think more needs to be done, however. I hope this is a first step because just keeping the processing open isn't going to solve anything and it creates its own problems. I don't like the idea that companies can now run unsafe factories with impunity and I hope that's not the case.

From what I've read the problem with the supply chain is more related to distribution and demand than processing. Orders are being cancelled, so farmers have nobody to sell their food to and they can't find new buyers quickly enough. I think we need to see the government buying the food, processing it, and either distributing it or storing it for later distribution. That would keep the farmers in business for when demand resumes and give us food for people who need it.

But is that too "socialist" to be a realistic plan in this climate? I dunno. Isn't that sort of what happened in the 1930s and 1940s? It doesn't have to be a permanent system but more of a wartime intervention.

[prairiewindmomma]

29 minutes ago, Danae said:

 

We have no way of knowing how much vegetarian options are going to be affected by the virus burning through the labor force. Plants have to be picked and processed as well.  And I doubt that there is the surplus of plant-based protein, even just rice and beans, to replace a significant percentage of meat in American diets right away.  

Actually, we know rice and beans are already in short supply.  Rice exports have been largely cut off, and we were already in a black bean shortage due to crop failures last year.  We also know that a large number of veggies are currently being plowed under, unharvested.

[prairiewindmomma]

25 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Well, the virus needs living tissue to reproduce in right?  So in terms of food production, I don't think a worker who is sick can later infect the person who consumes the chicken leg later....the virus can't stay alive long enough to get there.  It's not like a bacteria that consumes the meat to survive and therefore still alive and growing when the end product is used. 

 

 

And more to the point, the reason that one cooks protein to a certain temp is because e-coli and other bacteria are also issues.  I have been kinda chuckling at the people worried about picking up covid-19 from the meat.  Wrong focus, people.

[prairiewindmomma]

Our state health department has been in the local processing factories testing people....trying to get asymptomatic but positive people off of the processing lines to stop the spread.  One factory has had quite the outbreak, the other two have had minimal impact.  The workers stand shoulder to shoulder with only a thin plastic hanging shield between them and the person next to them.....that isn't going to stop aerosolized viral particles from hitting the person across the line or in a proximal area. 

[Pam in CT]

re virus-driven labor issues throughout the food supply chain

48 minutes ago, Danae said:

We have no way of knowing how much vegetarian options are going to be affected by the virus burning through the labor force. Plants have to be picked and processed as well.  And I doubt that there is the surplus of plant-based protein, even just rice and beans, to replace a significant percentage of meat in American diets right away.  

This.  This really isn't about meat-eaters vs vegetarians.

Our domestic food supply chain depends, at source, on the labor of extremely low paid workers laboring under extremely poor working conditions and living with extremely scant social safety net protections. That is true for both plant-based and meat-based products; and it is not a partisan statement, just a fact.  

And many particular products within our food supply chain are imported from other nations; also not a partisan statement, just a fact.

There will be ongoing virus-driven labor supply issues.  Several of the high-profile plant virus-driven closures thus far have been in the meat & chicken industry, but there will be others, in canning and packaging, and as crops come ready for harvest, and in the distribution networks.  As this wears on, there are as likely to be shortages in agricultural products as meat.  It's not as if displaced restaurant workers in CT will be flocking to CA to pick the fruit, any more than furloughed medical workers in OH can slaughter the pigs.

There will be virus-driven shifts in what imports are available as well.  Just as *our* POTUS made a food supply EO based on *our* food supply problems, other nations' leaders will be making decisions based on food supply problems in *their* nations.  Just as *our* POTUS determined food supply to be a national security issue, so too will other nations  who are also suddenly facing their own interruptions and shortages.

Costs will legitimately increase throughout the food supply chain as the workers at the "bottom" of the chain fall ill, and/or companies incur additional expenses to prevent that from happening; and as imports become less available.  And, inevitably, as in all situations of dire need, less legitimate profiteering middlemen will also arise to price-gouge.

 

None of which is to say we should panic about imminent starvation.  The US, overall, is far closer to more-or-less food independence than most nations. The challenges, while considerable, are mostly around distribution (though: yes, political will; and also yes, "socialism.").  As this wears on we may not be able to get our most-preferred food items, and I expect food costs will increase as virus-driven labor issues keep popping up in new and different and unlooked-for places in the supply chain.  But on this ONE front, the US is better positioned than most nations to come out OK relative to other nations.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Pam in CT
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[Corraleno]

The idea that the National Guard can just step in and take over these jobs is absurd. They'll be puking and passing out left and right. There's a reason this kind of work is only done by the poorest and most desperate people with no other options. The working conditions are horrific and the workers have little to no protection. It's not just the slaughtering and direct processing that's an issue either, the cleaning crews are probably the most exploited and abused group of workers in the US. They are almost all undocumented, and they have zero protections because cleaning crews are subcontracted and not employees of the plants. Their rates of illness and injury are astronomical — 1 in every 1000 suffers a job-related amputation. Americans are not going to literally risk life and limb for $12/hr and no worker's comp or unemployment.