disobeying social distancing, or not.

[gardenmom5]

and because people won't stay home - our gov is very likely to be issuing a shelter in place order tonight.

[gardenmom5]

32 minutes ago, katilac said:

Aww, I can always have sympathy for the follies of youth, and I don't even think they are much to blame in this case.

The beaches were open with no restrictions. Domestic flights were going strong, with no recourse for refunds. Festivals, concerts, and conferences were as scheduled. Numerous cities and states had zero social distancing policies in place, and indeed many officials were not only downplaying it but actively urging residents to eat out and such. Oklahoma's governor tweeted photos of himself and his family in a packed restaurant a mere week ago, with the hashtag #supportlocal. Also a week ago, Trump hosted a foreign delegation at a restaurant at his public resort, and then said he wouldn't be taking any particular precautions after two people at his table were dx'd with Covid 19. 

The White House itself made frequent statements in January and February regarding the virus being (light paraphrasing) very much under control; totally under control; pretty much shut down; not a big deal; no worse than the flu; our cases are going to be close to zero in a few days; and more.  It was very much still being minimized into March, with more serious responses and acknowledgements only coming in the last week! Yes, a national emergency was declared March 1, but statements continued to clash with that strongly. 

The 18-yr-old who decides it's okay to go on spring break in these circumstances is not most at fault in this scenario. 

a lot of airlines have been offering refunds.  people were being told to stay off the beaches - florida has a lot of miles of beach, it's hard to "shut" it down.  the kids were told to go home - I remember the gov' of Florida telling them to NOT COME (before spring break) - they came anyway.  

[katilac]

9 minutes ago, importswim said:

Respectfully, I disagree. I live in a beach town. We'e seen a greater influx of spring breakers in the past 2 weeks. That's after the National state of emergency AND time enough for most to know better.

 There may be some people who have no idea but the majority fall into one of two camps: Things aren't going to be as bad as they're all saying (people are panicking for no reason), or it won't affect me (or maybe a 3rd, everyone's going to die at some point).

I totally sympathize with those wanting to still take their vacations (DH's work is directly related to people doing just so), but I wish they'd err on the side of caution.

It's hard to entirely blame people for things that things aren't going to be as bad as they're saying, when a significant portion of the American government has been pushing that exact narrative. While there is now some recognition of how serious it is, there is also still significant downplaying of the challenges and overpromising regarding medical care, new treatments, and vaccines. 

Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with them, I think things have the potential to get very bad indeed. I just think that no one should be very surprised that some citizens think things are under control, when that's the exact message they've been hearing. 

 

1 minute ago, OKBud said:

 There are no mixed messages.  

If governors and presidents dining in crowded public restaurants is not a mixed message, I'm not sure what is. 

[Tanaqui]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

We need slogans like “keep calm and carry on “. How about “We won’t beat this alone”. Or. “Think of others, not just yourselves “. 

 

One Hand Washes The Other?

[importswim]

10 minutes ago, katilac said:

It's hard to entirely blame people for things that things aren't going to be as bad as they're saying, when a significant portion of the American government has been pushing that exact narrative. While there is now some recognition of how serious it is, there is also still significant downplaying of the challenges and overpromising regarding medical care, new treatments, and vaccines. 

 

That's a fair point. I may be projecting foreknowledge/interest on people that they don't have. I've been reading about Covid-19 since January and have always assumed that it'll get quite bad over here. I read news from other countries quite frequently, and so am up to date on how it's been handled/not handled other places in the world. Maybe the majority don't do that.

In our area most of the spring breakers aren't 18 year olds or even college aged students, but they're families with school aged children. I assumed that most children have been kept home from school for a long period of time now (so the parents would have some idea of how bad it is), but then I also just realized that it's happened so quickly that what has only been a couple of weeks already feels like months to me. 

[City Mouse]

In our small tourist town, the locals seem to be following the state guidelines. There was a bit of a rush at our grocery store today when the deliver truck that was supposed to come on Friday made it to town. But other than that, I haven’t seen any we were on an order of no groups larger than ten, but I am watching our governors press conference right now. She is issueing a “stay-at-home” order, closing all on-essential business, and limiting to groups of no larger than 5. She even mentioned than large families (larger than 5) should not be out in public as a group. 

I am a bit upset that there are still out of state people traveling through out town and stopping at our stores.

my adult DD works at a convenience store in the next town over is currently sick and was tested for the virus today. If she has it, she got it from a customer, and u til today she has been working, so she has potentially passed it on to many other customers including tourists who may have moved on. I am really, really hoping that she has some other nasty virus.

[marbel]

I am not sure how people are doing in my area as I haven't been out. 🙂   PA is pretty locked down, or at least my county and those surrounding. 

But, I think there have been some mixed messages. 

"Don't stock up! You can go to the grocery store!"  "Don't go out! Don't go to the grocery store!"

"Exercise and fresh air are good." "Don't go outside, stay out of parks and off trails!"  

Others have pointed out here that "social distancing" is a vague term.  

People need explicit information and instructions.  Not everyone gets nuance and subtlety, and while much of this may not seem subtle or nuanced to those reading here, let me assure you, it is to a lot of folks.  

New Jersey seems to be exploding with cases (though it may just be that they have more testing) but it seemed to take the governor an awfully long time to shut down the casinos! 

[ScoutTN]

I am sure some are, but I have not seen anyone not follwoing the rules since this began. Of course, almost the only places I have been are a large park and the grocery, both about a mile from my house! 

People ages 21-30 have the most number of postive CV testsin TN, so I would guess they are socializing. But maybe just working jobs where they are more exposed? 

[katilac]

55 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

people were being told to stay off the beaches - florida has a lot of miles of beach, it's hard to "shut" it down.  the kids were told to go home - I remember the gov' of Florida telling them to NOT COME (before spring break) - they came anyway.  

I've lived in two different cities in Florida. Beaches can be closed. They are in fact being closed right now in many cities, it's just that Gov. DeSantis is refusing to issue a statewide order. He said on March 19 that limiting gatherings to 10 was sufficient. He absolutely did not tell people to stay off the beaches, but rather said that people need a place to go and that it wasn't practical to close most things down long-term. State parks were just closed today, after a lot of pressure. DeSantis has publicly stated (within the last five days) that he doesn't think 'stay at home' is viable for long and that people will get quarantine fatigue. So, again, still lots of disagreement in government about what needs to be done. 

I wonder if you are thinking of the former governor, who did indeed publicly ask people to stay away from the beaches? 

34 minutes ago, importswim said:

I assumed that most children have been kept home from school for a long period of time now (so the parents would have some idea of how bad it is) 

Our local schools closed exactly one week ago, on March 16.  

Edited March 23, 2020 by katilac

[katilac]

1 minute ago, ScoutTN said:

People ages 21-30 have the most number of postive CV testsin TN, so I would guess they are socializing. But maybe just working jobs where they are more exposed? 

Sure, very possible. Socializing isn't inherently more likely to expose you than work, it's more about the numbers of people. Lots of young people have jobs in the service industry, which means lots of exposure to the public on a rotating basis (exposure to different people, not the same group of people). 

[Donna]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Aww, I can always have sympathy for the follies of youth, and I don't even think they are much to blame in this case.

The beaches were open with no restrictions. Domestic flights were going strong, with no recourse for refunds.

We were in NYC over a week ago and, as things deteriorated, we rented a car and drove home rather than staying the other five days we had scheduled and flying home. American airlines refunded our unused tickets even though they were the most basic tickets with no cancellation or refund supposed to be given under normal circumstances.

[katilac]

36 minutes ago, Donna said:

We were in NYC over a week ago and, as things deteriorated, we rented a car and drove home rather than staying the other five days we had scheduled and flying home. American airlines refunded our unused tickets even though they were the most basic tickets with no cancellation or refund supposed to be given under normal circumstances.

Awesome! 

[Shoeless]

I had to drop off packages at the post office, which is next to a gas station/convenience store. The store was busy and people were doing entirely non-essential things like buying lottery tickets and bringing their kids inside to get slushies. 

I stopped at the pet store to get cat food. There was a family of 7 ahead of me, kids pushing each other and touching everything.  It was mom, dad, a teen girl with her boyfriend, and 3 young kids. They were buying one bag of dog treats.  I HAVE NO IDEA WHY IT TAKES 7 PEOPLE TO BUY A BAG OF DOG TREATS.  This is a part of the culture here; no one shops by themselves.  They bring the entire family with them and everyone mills around.  So even if they are only making "necessary" shopping trips, they are still potentially exposing multiple people because they bring grandma, mom and dad, the kids, their sister-in-law...

I am seeing the understanding of "social distancing" breaking down along class and education lines around here.  The people that have more money and education seem to get it and are staying out of public spaces. (Traffic is generally lower than normal on the roads and all social venues are closed). The people in the lower socio-economic bracket don't seem to get it and going full throttle with normal behavior.  It's like, they can't go to the movies or the park, so they'll go fart around in the grocery store instead. 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by MissLemon

[katilac]

 

22 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I am seeing the understanding of "social distancing" breaking down along class and education lines around here.  The people that have more money and education seem to get it and are staying out of public spaces. (Traffic is generally lower than normal on the roads and all social venues are closed). The people in the lower socio-economic bracket don't seem to get it and going full throttle with normal behavior. 

 

 You say that people who have more money and education seem to 'get it' and stay out of public spaces, but I would bet that it's less a matter of superior understanding and more a matter of sheltering in place playing out very differently for different people.   

More money means more space, more comfort, more luxuries to amuse yourself with. I'm home in a house with ample space. We have a backyard with a covered patio and covered deck. We have internet service and a computer for every person. My experience is completely different than that of someone in a crowded apartment, maybe in a not-so-nice complex, maybe with noisy neighbors on all sides (or just thin walls), with no place for the kids to play, no patio to sit on, and so on. It's way easier for me to stay home! 

Some people may understand that social distancing will help the epidemic overall, but they may also hold the belief that it won't help them or their community at all. They may think that it's going to spread through their community no matter what, and that they won't get good medical care no matter what. Lots of people in higher socio-economic brackets are working from home, a luxury that lower brackets don't have. They're out there in the grocery stores and retirement homes and all kinds of high risk jobs (for low pay). 

I personally haven't observed any particular groups in my area going full-throttle, and of course I want people to social distance as they can, but I also have some level of understanding if some people aren't feeling selfless. 

[Shoeless]

11 minutes ago, katilac said:

I personally haven't observed any particular groups in my area going full-throttle, and of course I want people to social distance as they can, but I also have some level of understanding if some people aren't feeling selfless. 

 

You're right. I have zero level of understanding for people that are not being selfless during a pandemic. 

The virus isn't going to care much whether one family feels antsy at home.  It's not going to say "Well, you had a very good reason for going out for lottery tickets and slushies today, so I won't infect you or your kids, and thus allow it to spread through your apartment complex".    

[Pen]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

and because people won't stay home - our gov is very likely to be issuing a shelter in place order tonight.

 

We’ve seen that right on threads on WTM—apparently fairly intelligent people, smart enough to homeschool kids anyway applies to  most people on here, who make it clear that unless they are ordered to do something with enforcement authority behind it they aren’t going to — and also lots of “likes” for that attitude.   🤷‍♀️

[katilac]

32 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

You're right. I have zero level of understanding for people that are not being selfless during a pandemic. 

The virus isn't going to care much whether one family feels antsy at home.  It's not going to say "Well, you had a very good reason for going out for lottery tickets and slushies today, so I won't infect you or your kids, and thus allow it to spread through your apartment complex".    

Absolutely it will not, and it is far to the better if everyone manages to be selfless. I probably shouldn't have gone down that road (that phrasing), because my main intent was to point out disparities (other than lack of understanding) that might lead one group to be better at staying home than another. It's very easy and comfortable for me to be home. It's very difficult and uncomfortable for some others to be at home. I just don't think those of us with very 'easy' quarantines should be bragging about our self-control just yet, lol. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

I had to drop off packages at the post office, which is next to a gas station/convenience store. The store was busy and people were doing entirely non-essential things like buying lottery tickets and bringing their kids inside to get slushies. 

I stopped at the pet store to get cat food. There was a family of 7 ahead of me, kids pushing each other and touching everything.  It was mom, dad, a teen girl with her boyfriend, and 3 young kids. They were buying one bag of dog treats.  I HAVE NO IDEA WHY IT TAKES 7 PEOPLE TO BUY A BAG OF DOG TREATS.  This is a part of the culture here; no one shops by themselves.  They bring the entire family with them and everyone mills around.  So even if they are only making "necessary" shopping trips, they are still potentially exposing multiple people because they bring grandma, mom and dad, the kids, their sister-in-law...

I am seeing the understanding of "social distancing" breaking down along class and education lines around here.  The people that have more money and education seem to get it and are staying out of public spaces. (Traffic is generally lower than normal on the roads and all social venues are closed). The people in the lower socio-economic bracket don't seem to get it and going full throttle with normal behavior.  It's like, they can't go to the movies or the park, so they'll go fart around in the grocery store instead. 

 

 

I have seen age related violations regardless of class/education.

 And I had a bunch of head butting with my young adult...who I know to be reasonably intelligent, but would say is lacking in mature executive functioning.   starting with a gradual throttling down and basically leading to an ultimatum that as an adult I could not keep him home, but if he left without my permission as of Friday noon he could not come home again. And suggesting that he might prefer home to elsewhere when lockdown orders got issued (Which despite some eye rolling, door banging and sulking seems to have worked. ) 

And I also think that you are right that there is an education etc difference at play too. 

 

[marbel]

PA governor announced today that 6 counties, including mine, are under a "stay at home" order for the next two weeks "unless not leaving your home endangers a life."  So I interpret that as - going to the store when people are out of food (like literally to the point of nothing to eat in the house), going to the pharmacy for life-saving medications (such as insulin, blood pressure meds... not things like BCP or ADD meds); going to the hospital for an emergency or life-saving treatments such as chemo.  Those are the only things I can think of. 

His statement was immediately followed with "my office will be issuing guidelines on allowed activities."   He didn't say when that would be (unless I missed it).

ETA: All grocery stores, including Target, Walmart, Sam Club, Costco, etc are open, as they are considered "life-sustaining." Banks can (actually required to) be open (though some are reducing hours and even going to appointments) because people have to have access to cash. So, it's really not  going to be "don't leave home unless someone's life is in danger." I suppose he may shut down restaurant take-out and delivery.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by marbel

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, marbel said:

PA governor announced today that 6 counties, including mine, are under a "stay at home" order for the next two weeks "unless not leaving your home endangers a life."  

Wow!

[Pen]

I think we need various stars (popular music stars, actors, sports world figures) to help get word out to teens, young adults, etc etc to stay home! 

Voices, names and faces likely to carry weight with various population demographic groups. 

Like tweets, free TV ads, Tiktok ...   

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Pen

[gardenmom5]

41 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

We’ve seen that right on threads on WTM—apparently fairly intelligent people, smart enough to homeschool kids anyway applies to  most people on here, who make it clear that unless they are ordered to do something with enforcement authority behind it they aren’t going to — and also lots of “likes” for that attitude.   🤷‍♀️

and we now have a shelter in place directive because people couldn't stay off the beaches in seattle.

[hippiemamato3]

25 minutes ago, marbel said:

PA governor announced today that 6 counties, including mine, are under a "stay at home" order for the next two weeks "unless not leaving your home endangers a life."  So I interpret that as - going to the store when people are out of food (like literally to the point of nothing to eat in the house), going to the pharmacy for life-saving medications (such as insulin, blood pressure meds... not things like BCP or ADD meds); going to the hospital for an emergency or life-saving treatments such as chemo.  Those are the only things I can think of. 

His statement was immediately followed with "my office will be issuing guidelines on allowed activities."   He didn't say when that would be (unless I missed it).

ETA: All grocery stores, including Target, Walmart, Sam Club, Costco, etc are open, as they are considered "life-sustaining." Banks can (actually required to) be open (though some are reducing hours and even going to appointments) because people have to have access to cash. So, it's really not  going to be "don't leave home unless someone's life is in danger." I suppose he may shut down restaurant take-out and delivery.

 

 

 

I would consider it ok to leave the house to pick up any prescribed medication. 

[Pen]

35 minutes ago, marbel said:

PA governor announced today that 6 counties, including mine, are under a "stay at home" order for the next two weeks "unless not leaving your home endangers a life." 

 

That seems much more clear than most of the orders. 

[marbel]

21 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I would consider it ok to leave the house to pick up any prescribed medication. 

Well, I agree with you, but his exact words were "unless not leaving your home endangers a life."  So what does that mean then, if people can interpret it as something other than his exact words? 

And, I'm not y arguing about what he is doing. I think drastic measures are needed.  No one in my family has left the house since I got home from work on Saturday at 12:30am.  I started working at home Saturday afternoon.  Before that, I was driving to/from work and my daughter and I were going to the grocery store, and that's it.

Edited March 24, 2020 by marbel

[hippiemamato3]

1 minute ago, marbel said:

Well, I agree with you, but his exact words were "unless not leaving your home endangers a life."  So what does that mean then, if people can interpret it as something other than his exact words? 

It probably means I dont follow rules that well...but I also figure if Target and grocery stores are open that it's no big deal to grab prescriptions through a drive through at the same time as you get groceries. 

[katilac]

17 minutes ago, marbel said:

Well, I agree with you, but his exact words were "unless not leaving your home endangers a life."  So what does that mean then, if people can interpret it as something other than his exact words? 

I think it probably means that he's a parent who's used to saying things like "you're going to be grounded for six months!" and "don't disturb me unless the house is on fire." The kids don't take him literally, but they do know he's serious 😄

I don't think too many people are going to be like, guess I won't be filling that birth control scrip this month . . . 

[Renai]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

I am seeing the understanding of "social distancing" breaking down along class and education lines around here.  The people that have more money and education seem to get it and are staying out of public spaces. (Traffic is generally lower than normal on the roads and all social venues are closed). The people in the lower socio-economic bracket don't seem to get it and going full throttle with normal behavior.  It's like, they can't go to the movies or the park, so they'll go fart around in the grocery store instead. 

 

I've seen the opposite. The ones with money were out and about because they have the money to (privilege); the ones without money hoarded goods and stayed at home because they don't have the money or insurance to pay if they get sick. 

[Junie]

This from a reputable Pennsylvania news station (where I grew up) seems to have more clarification:

https://www.wgal.com/article/stay-at-home-order-pennsylvania-governor-coronavirus-covid-19-some-counties/31901676

https://www.wgal.com/article/governors-office-provides-guidance-on-allowable-activities-under-stay-at-home-order-issued-for-7-pennsylvania-counties/31903243

Edited March 24, 2020 by Junie
added second link

[happypamama]

I've seen more neighbors out walking than usual but nobody breaking the rules. 

 

My husband said Home Depot was packed with kids tonight (why???), but the grocery store was empty. 

[Paige]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

Well, I agree with you, but his exact words were "unless not leaving your home endangers a life."  So what does that mean then, if people can interpret it as something other than his exact words? 

And, I'm not y arguing about what he is doing. I think drastic measures are needed.  No one in my family has left the house since I got home from work on Saturday at 12:30am.  I started working at home Saturday afternoon.  Before that, I was driving to/from work and my daughter and I were going to the grocery store, and that's it.

It can be dangerous to not take many medications as directed; to skip doses, stop taking it cold turkey, or to get pregnant or otherwise live with the consequences of not taking it. Even ADD and BCP can have serious health effects for some people if doses are missed- it would be dangerous to put the burden on individuals to decide if they don't need to follow their doctors' directions with medications. I think all medications should be classified as essential. 

 

[Corraleno]

6 hours ago, katilac said:

It's hard to entirely blame people for things that things aren't going to be as bad as they're saying, when a significant portion of the American government has been pushing that exact narrative. While there is now some recognition of how serious it is, there is also still significant downplaying of the challenges and overpromising regarding medical care, new treatments, and vaccines. 

Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with them, I think things have the potential to get very bad indeed. I just think that no one should be very surprised that some citizens think things are under control, when that's the exact message they've been hearing. 

And now we're back to the president saying it's not as dangerous as the flu or car accidents, and the country really needs to be opening back up for business ASAP, and people like Laura Ingraham are tweeting that we need to reopen restaurants and businesses and schools a week from now. 🤨

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, katilac said:

Absolutely it will not, and it is far to the better if everyone manages to be selfless. I probably shouldn't have gone down that road (that phrasing), because my main intent was to point out disparities (other than lack of understanding) that might lead one group to be better at staying home than another. It's very easy and comfortable for me to be home. It's very difficult and uncomfortable for some others to be at home. I just don't think those of us with very 'easy' quarantines should be bragging about our self-control just yet, lol. 

I"m very aware of how lucky I am to be able to stay home, trust me on that.  I am definitely not bragging about how easy this is or how well supplied I am.  Quite honestly, I'm a wreck over the whole thing and have lost 7 lbs in the last 10 days because I'm so upset, (hmm, and it looks like I'm also breaking out in hives on my hands.  That's new.  I wonder if I'm allergic to the nitrile gloves I wore?)  Much of my family is in NYC and Long Island and are elderly.  I don't know if I'll ever see some of them again.  My great aunt and uncle are in their 90s. If they catch this, they are going to die. I am viewing all this through the lens of "People I care about are probably going to die", so I have zero chill towards people who are farting around in public doing non-essential things because they are bored or their neighbors are too noisy. 

I'm not without empathy for people that are in some real crap situations, like people that will be forced to shelter in place with their abuser.  I don't know how to fix that, though.  I don't know how to keep public places open so poor people with fewer options have some place to exist away from poverty, while also eliminating the risk to health to other vulnerable populations. Walk through the park by yourself if your apartment sucks and you've got to get away, but hanging out at the gas station buying lottery tickets? No.  

 

[marbel]

9 hours ago, Paige said:

It can be dangerous to not take many medications as directed; to skip doses, stop taking it cold turkey, or to get pregnant or otherwise live with the consequences of not taking it. Even ADD and BCP can have serious health effects for some people if doses are missed- it would be dangerous to put the burden on individuals to decide if they don't need to follow their doctors' directions with medications. I think all medications should be classified as essential. 

I agree with you, and I would go out to buy those things. It's the strong language I am talking about.  As Katilac said above:

Quote

I think it probably means that he's a parent who's used to saying things like "you're going to be grounded for six months!" and "don't disturb me unless the house is on fire." The kids don't take him literally, but they do know he's serious 😄

I am sure he was trying to make it clear that people should only go out for essential things, but people can argue about what is essential.  

A list of acceptable activities came out today, and it is totally reasonable to me. Here are a few - I am cherry-picking because it's a long list.

• Tasks essential to maintain health and safety, or the health and safety of their family or household members (including pets), such as obtaining medicine or medical supplies, visiting a health care professional, or obtaining supplies they need to work from home
• Engaging in outdoor activity, such as walking, hiking or running if they maintain social distancing
• To perform work providing essential products and services at a life-sustaining business
• Travel to or from educational institutions for purposes of receiving materials for distance learning, for receiving meals, and any other related services
•  

I wouldn't consider "receiving materials for distance learning" life-sustaining, though I would take my kid to school for their books and such, if we didn't already have them at home. 

Anyway, here is full article if anyone is interested. 

https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroom/governor-wolf-and-health-secretary-issue-stay-at-home-orders-to-7-counties-to-mitigate-spread-of-covid-19/

Overall I think PA is doing a good job on this. But, I can't be sure because I don't know if our numbers are relatively low compared to nearby states such as NJ because we are doing well with mitigation efforts, or are testing fewer people. Maybe I already said that in this thread!

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by marbel

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, MissLemon said:

I"m very aware of how lucky I am to be able to stay home, trust me on that.  I am definitely not bragging about how easy this is or how well supplied I am.  Quite honestly, I'm a wreck over the whole thing and have lost 7 lbs in the last 10 days because I'm so upset, (hmm, and it looks like I'm also breaking out in hives on my hands.  That's new.  I wonder if I'm allergic to the nitrile gloves I wore?)  Much of my family is in NYC and Long Island and are elderly.  I don't know if I'll ever see some of them again.  My great aunt and uncle are in their 90s. If they catch this, they are going to die. I am viewing all this through the lens of "People I care about are probably going to die", so I have zero chill towards people who are farting around in public doing non-essential things because they are bored or their neighbors are too noisy. 

I'm not without empathy for people that are in some real crap situations, like people that will be forced to shelter in place with their abuser.  I don't know how to fix that, though.  I don't know how to keep public places open so poor people with fewer options have some place to exist away from poverty, while also eliminating the risk to health to other vulnerable populations. Walk through the park by yourself if your apartment sucks and you've got to get away, but hanging out at the gas station buying lottery tickets? No.  

 

stress hives is a thing.  I didn't know that until my dd got hives when she was engaged/planning her wedding during her 4th year of grad school (when she was already super busy doing internships at a new place every month.)

a 90 year old woman at the hard hit nursing home here - recovered.  a 95 year old woman in Italy recovered.  it's possible.  even in this age group, more people recover than die.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I live in N. KY near Cincinnati.  It seems like most people are listening and trying to do their part here.

[Renai]

I'm currently in TX with my parents, but texted my neighbor in NM last night. He said the city is like a ghost town. Over 80,000 in population, he said it's surreal. So, it seems people started distancing before the order was put out yesterday that a stay-at-home order starts today.

[Pen]

John Campbell had a little ditty this morning iirc:

 

 

“Social Distance

Means    Existence”

[Pen]

14 hours ago, katilac said:

 

 You say that people who have more money and education seem to 'get it' and stay out of public spaces, but I would bet that it's less a matter of superior understanding and more a matter of sheltering in place playing out very differently for different people.   

More money means more space, more comfort, more luxuries to amuse yourself with. I'm home in a house with ample space. We have a backyard with a covered patio and covered deck. We have internet service and a computer for every person. My experience is completely different than that of someone in a crowded apartment, maybe in a not-so-nice complex, maybe with noisy neighbors on all sides (or just thin walls), with no place for the kids to play, no patio to sit on, and so on. It's way easier for me to stay home! 

Some people may understand that social distancing will help the epidemic overall, but they may also hold the belief that it won't help them or their community at all. They may think that it's going to spread through their community no matter what, and that they won't get good medical care no matter what. Lots of people in higher socio-economic brackets are working from home, a luxury that lower brackets don't have. They're out there in the grocery stores and retirement homes and all kinds of high risk jobs (for low pay). 

I personally haven't observed any particular groups in my area going full-throttle, and of course I want people to social distance as they can, but I also have some level of understanding if some people aren't feeling selfless. 

 

I think once @MissLemon pointed the phenomenon out that it is also true out here in my rural area.  The more educated people are distancing more than the less educated. And there’s a lot of room for most of the rural people locally — in fact some of the less educated have lots more room than many of the more educated since the former inherited many hundreds of acres farms in some cases. While the latter tend to be more recent arrivals who bought small pieces of land at much higher prices.  It also doesn’t appear to be playing out by party affiliation (judging by campaign yard signs). 

There may be some extended family size and extended family nearby aspects.  

The newer arrivals to the area, who tend to be more educated, tend to be small nuclear families. The “old timers” tend to have numerous cousin families all over area, so if grouping together for a “family” meal at home, that could be maybe 2-5 people for the more educated who decided to try to give up the rat race and go be organic farmers. It could be 25-100 people for the families who came originally by covered wagon and have blood ties to many others in the area. 

So if a rule says no groups of over 25 except at home (which I think ours did till the lockdown yesterday) , that can play out very differently for different families. 

Hobbies can also be quite different.  The less educated families are more likely to go into a nearby town for bowling or to hang out at a Dairy Queen (kids) or small restaurant (adults/ families) or bar or cannabis shop (adults)  in tighter quarters with other people.  The more educated / intellectually minded tend to be more likely to stay home and read a book (or search out CV19 info in the Lancet). 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Pen

[Jean in Newcastle]

I’m struggling with anger because a good friend finds social distancing of her child inconvenient and has been getting together with others for daily playdates. “But my child NEEDS it!”  We define need very differently. I hope that the new restrictions will reign her and her friends in but I worry that they will just find another way to do it. 
 

We parent very differently and normally I can compartmentalize it just fine into “you do you”. But I see these decisions (when multiplied across a certain percentage of the population) as being detrimental to the population as a whole and being the kind of thing that will ultimately prolong the pain for all of us. 

[BlsdMama]

22 hours ago, regentrude said:

Here in my town, I have no ideas whether anybody is having large gatherings because I am staying home. The uni is closed, all restaurants are closed (takeout/curbside only) and there's nothing to do anyway.

This.

We live rurally.  The only person I can see is my next door neighbor.  
We are not shelter in place.  

I'll say this though, if someone is saying there are so many people at the park BECAUSE they're at the park, recognize the issue here.  I've seen this kind of mentality everywhere on my social media. 

 

[vonbon]

32 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I’m struggling with anger because a good friend finds social distancing of her child inconvenient and has been getting together with others for daily playdates. “But my child NEEDS it!”  We define need very differently. I hope that the new restrictions will reign her and her friends in but I worry that they will just find another way to do it. 
 

We parent very differently and normally I can compartmentalize it just fine into “you do you”. But I see these decisions (when multiplied across a certain percentage of the population) as being detrimental to the population as a whole and being the kind of thing that will ultimately prolong the pain for all of us. 

Just a vent / JAWM, please:

Irritated because a friend who normally has issues with boundaries has texted and called to say her children are "out of school" for the next few weeks and would we like to get together?  

Family member at a distance called to say the same and ask if our children would like to travel 3 hours to hang out and spend the night with cousins because they're also "out of school".  

I'm like: 🤨😤😡💥

What do these people not GET?!  (Our state has been in lockdown.)  I want to say, "Your children are 'out of school' for a REASON.  And it's not to get together, go sledding, have sleepovers, or otherwise fraternize."  

And, lest you'd think these folks are undereducated, somehow not connected to modern technology / news, or otherwise disadvantaged in some way that would make them clueless...nope.  Both upper-middle-class to wealthy, constantly on FB, and well-educated.  The one strand of similarity weaving its way through things is self-centeredness.  In both cases, parents spend a lot of time on themselves (travel, gym classes, etc.) and don't have much control over the kids...  

So maybe these people are desperate to spend time on themselves and get away from their children?  They're hoping my DC can be the solution, which irks me beyond...😤  I'm beyond irritated / annoyed...  Hopefully this is a safe place to share because I'm flummoxed.  I haven't even replied to the call / texting yet because I just CAN'T.  

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I’m struggling with anger because a good friend finds social distancing of her child inconvenient and has been getting together with others for daily playdates. “But my child NEEDS it!”  We define need very differently. I hope that the new restrictions will reign her and her friends in but I worry that they will just find another way to do it. 
 

We parent very differently and normally I can compartmentalize it just fine into “you do you”. But I see these decisions (when multiplied across a certain percentage of the population) as being detrimental to the population as a whole and being the kind of thing that will ultimately prolong the pain for all of us. 

Judging by the videos of Italian mayors (in a country where the conditions have been horrific) online screaming and threatening the residents of their cities who won't stay home - I doubt Inslee's ordering people to stay home will have any effect upon them.

 

eta: added links.  while the mayors yelling at their residents is kinda/sorta funny (the police will come to your party with flame throwers) - it's also not funny as they are clearly desperate to stop the spread of the virus.

Edited March 24, 2020 by gardenmom5
added links for the videos of the mayors

[Jean in Newcastle]

13 minutes ago, vonbon said:

Just a vent / JAWM, please:

Irritated because a friend who normally has issues with boundaries has texted and called to say her children are "out of school" for the next few weeks and would we like to get together?  

Family member at a distance called to say the same and ask if our children would like to travel 3 hours to hang out and spend the night with cousins because they're also "out of school".  

I'm like: 🤨😤😡💥

What do these people not GET?!  (Our state has been in lockdown.)  I want to say, "Your children are 'out of school' for a REASON.  And it's not to get together, go sledding, have sleepovers, or otherwise fraternize."  

And, lest you'd think these folks are undereducated, somehow not connected to modern technology / news, or otherwise disadvantaged in some way that would make them clueless...nope.  Both upper-middle-class to wealthy, constantly on FB, and well-educated.  The one strand of similarity weaving its way through things is self-centeredness.  In both cases, parents spend a lot of time on themselves (travel, gym classes, etc.) and don't have much control over the kids...  

So maybe these people are desperate to spend time on themselves and get away from their children?  They're hoping my DC can be the solution, which irks me beyond...😤  I'm beyond irritated / annoyed...  Hopefully this is a safe place to share because I'm flummoxed.  I haven't even replied to the call / texting yet because I just CAN'T.  

I support you 100%.  I don't get it either.  Our governor has been doing informational press conferences almost daily.  The local news are giving very good advice and explanations daily.  And yet people seem to think that "others" should social distance but not them because they are special snowflakes who magically don't have any of this apply to them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My niece (early 30's) was crying yesterday because three of her peers (same age) are very sick with COVID19.  Looking at the statistics, they probably won't end up in ICU, though they might be hospitalized.  And they probably won't die but this illness isn't a walk in the park for them.  (In our state, you have to be fairly sick to be even tested at those ages so the fact that they know they are positive for the virus says something.)

[vonbon]

10 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I support you 100%.  I don't get it either.  Our governor has been doing informational press conferences almost daily.  The local news are giving very good advice and explanations daily.  And yet people seem to think that "others" should social distance but not them because they are special snowflakes who magically don't have any of this apply to them.

Thanks.  Neither of these parties know each other so I'm looking for the common thread that would cause them to be this way. 

I think you hit the nail on the head: both of these families have an air about them (have seen it in various situations in life) in which they don't think the rules apply to them.  Or generally looking for ways around the rules...or exceptions...or ways to pay their way past barriers, etc.  

This isn't the first time I've considered "social distancing" 😆 from them due to this kind of attitude.  Not saying they're evil; these adults have many redeeming qualities and are amazing in many ways.  But this attitude makes my blood boil...I think covid19 is the last straw.  🤔

ETA: Thanks for letting me vent.

Edited March 24, 2020 by vonbon

[Jean in Newcastle]

COVID19 doesn't care if you are bored, or your kids are driving you nuts, or your roots are going grey, or you miss your social life or you need a pedicare.  (BTW - these are all excuses I've heard in person or online as to why the social distancing rules don't apply to someone because dontcha know - all of those are an EMERGENCY!  (Sarcasm alert) 

[marbel]

I have heard people say of private gatherings which are technically prohibited right now:  "we could get away with it."

Whenever a sentence includes the notion of "getting away" with something... it's not a good idea.

I'm sorry for those of you with family pressure.  Stay strong! We have no family in our area, and my little clan of 4 is on board with staying in. My college kids have very few local friends, which in itself is sad, but I know they are making use of zoom and other platforms for socializing right now with their college friends who are all dispersed. My son bought a version of Uno on Steam to play with friends. I think he has skyped into D&D as well. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I’m struggling with anger because a good friend finds social distancing of her child inconvenient and has been getting together with others for daily playdates. “But my child NEEDS it!”  We define need very differently. I hope that the new restrictions will reign her and her friends in but I worry that they will just find another way to do it. 
 

 

Someone needs to re-read The Diary of Anne Frank, and maybe The Long Winter so they can appreciate how NOT impossible it is to stay home with kids who have Netflix, Tablets, Xbox's, craft supplies, snacks, etc. If an entire family could live silently in a room, and another family could do it with not enough food, no games/toys/entertainment to speak of, they can suck it up. 

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I support you 100%.  I don't get it either.  Our governor has been doing informational press conferences almost daily.  The local news are giving very good advice and explanations daily.  And yet people seem to think that "others" should social distance but not them because they are special snowflakes who magically don't have any of this apply to them.

Well, it might help if those doing these press conferences did them virtually or something, rather than have a bunch of people in a freaking room!!!! "Hey, don't gather" is less effective when given AT A GATHERING. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Someone needs to re-read The Diary of Anne Frank, and maybe The Long Winter so they can appreciate how NOT impossible it is to stay home with kids who have Netflix, Tablets, Xbox's, craft supplies, snacks, etc. If an entire family could live silently in a room, and another family could do it with not enough food, no games/toys/entertainment to speak of, they can suck it up. 

Well, it might help if those doing these press conferences did them virtually or something, rather than have a bunch of people in a freaking room!!!! "Hey, don't gather" is less effective when given AT A GATHERING. 

I think that our governor was alone the last couple of times?  At least he was last night.  (Though I assume that there was a cameraman a safe distance away).