When your friend is disproportionately angry

[Ginevra]

That’s a dumb title, but I want to talk about this. Suppose you have a friend who is frequently angry about stuff going on in the world. Stuff that is just not important in the grand scheme of things. Like - this is not a real example, but it’s analogous. My friend might fume, “Did you see that some celebrity dyed her hair rainbow colors? That’s so stupid-looking! What the hell is the matter with people?!” 

I feel like I often spend time diffusing these trivial things, with mixed success. I might say, “Oh, yes, Sue, I saw that...it’s not my cup of tea but - meh - it’s not something I want to waste my emotional energy on.” But she might rail about it some more. Or the next time I see her it may be something equally trivial, though different. 

What do you think is the best response? Have you had this before? 

[ashfern]

I usually ignore those kinds of conversations. I don't engage but just mumble or say "oh, that's interesting". Only my DH will I tell that he's fixating and that it doesn't matter.

[wintermom]

If it's a pattern of behaviour, there probably is no fixing it - or at least no quick fix.  If it were my friend, I would simply limit my time with her. I'm too overwhelmed at the moment with family and personal issues, and I do not need to be the diffuser with someone's self-imposed anger. 

I do have a friend like this, and I don't see her alone. I need several people in the mix so I don't have to be the only ears to deal with it.

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, Quill said:

That’s a dumb title, but I want to talk about this. Suppose you have a friend who is frequently angry about stuff going on in the world. Stuff that is just not important in the grand scheme of things. Like - this is not a real example, but it’s analogous. My friend might fume, “Did you see that some celebrity dyed her hair rainbow colors? That’s so stupid-looking! What the hell is the matter with people?!” 

I feel like I often spend time diffusing these trivial things, with mixed success. I might say, “Oh, yes, Sue, I saw that...it’s not my cup of tea but - meh - it’s not something I want to waste my emotional energy on.” But she might rail about it some more. Or the next time I see her it may be something equally trivial, though different. 

What do you think is the best response? Have you had this before? 

When it is about a wide variety of topics I find this is a self distraction technique. Focus on other people's 'problems' so you don't have to think about yours.

[Islandgal]

If it's family, I engage only to be polite. 

If it's a friend, and I notice it happens more often than not, I tend to distance myself, realizing I may have outgrown her/him.

Most times when people are disporportionately angry, they're either projecting or don't want to deal with the real issues in their lives. In my experience that's their way of releasing their emotions they typically bottle up. Not the healthiest way to get it out, but it is what it is.

[JustEm]

A go to response for me is, "I don't spend my mental energy on trivial things like that." That generally gets them to realize that I really don't care about the topic.

But my friends know I'm pretty blunt so they aren't shocked by a comment like that

[Excelsior! Academy]

Is she fairly immature?  Maybe she has a lot going on in her life and is directing the anger at her situation onto others.  I would be kind, but blunt as others have suggested then limit contact if necessary.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Islandgal said:

If it's family, I engage only to be polite. 

If it's a friend, and I notice it happens more often than not, I tend to distance myself, realizing I may have outgrown her/him.

Most times when people are disporportionately angry, they're either projecting or don't want to deal with the real issues in their lives. In my experience that's their way of releasing their emotions they typically bottle up. Not the healthiest way to get it out, but it is what it is.

Hey, that is what I said, except you said it better.  🙂

[SKL]

I used to have a lunch buddy like that.  She was never not angry and it would be the whole lunch hour.  It also set the stage for me to be ranty, which was nice in some ways, but not really great overall.

Honestly, the when we stopped having lunch together for whatever reason, it was a good thing, and I realized that the thought of meeting her again was kind of depressing.  So I stopped reaching out and that was that.

Funny thing is, maybe she thought the same thing about me, since both of us ranted the whole time we ate.  But I wasn't like that with anyone else.

So ... if this is a really good friend of yours and one you value, then just tell yourself that ranting is kind of her hobby, like some people enjoy singing or laughing.  Let her be, but try not to get sucked into it.  If she isn't a great friend other than the anger, maybe reduce the time you spend with her, because I don't think she's going to change no matter what you say.

[May]

If it’s a close friend and it is happening more and more, I would point it out and ask if everything is ok. If it’s a friend that I’m not that close with, I’d spend less time with her. If it’s family, I would give the classic WTM response, “Pass the bean dip,” while having a sorrowful look on my face.

 

[Pen]

“You know,” shrug,”kids today. So, hey I be bern trying to find out about _____, do you know anything about ?”

something messed up my post anyway idea was to change to topic that interests you and ask a question  about what’re it is warm mittens, exercise programs...

Edited January 23, 2020 by Pen

[SKL]

Oh yeah, I agree that if it isn't all the time, there might be something much bigger that she is having a hard time dealing with.

My sister is like that.  I can always tell when she goes off on something dumb.  "He f-ing knows to f-ing put the f-ing toilet seat down!  He should live in a f-ing barn!  He shouldn't be around my kids!  Bla bla bla bla!!"  So I just say, "Ok ... what is really bothering you, because I know it isn't the toilet seat."

[Islandgal]

Another thought, some people really struggle with communicating their feelings or have been taught to keep them in, so really have no idea of how to even begin to process or express them in a healthy way.

Like when a child is crying but has no idea of how to explain what's wrong. Some people never grow beyond that for whatever reason.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Islandgal

[ElizabethB]

Perhaps she is reading too much twitter and transferring it to real life?  I unfollow anyone who rants too much and follow some phonics people and have exchanged good tips there but there are some ranters there.  People complain about the strangest things on twitter but thankfully I don't know anyone in real life who gets worked up about trivial things.

In addition to other very good suggestions you've gotten, you could remark something like, "Hmm, I've seen people upset about that on twitter, I didn't realize it mattered so much to you and your life?" (or maybe not, or depending on her personality, perhaps a less blunt version.)

Edited January 23, 2020 by ElizabethB

[Pen]

Or, just straight out ask, “why is that bothering you ?”

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

Is she fairly immature?  Maybe she has a lot going on in her life and is directing the anger at her situation onto others.  I would be kind, but blunt as others have suggested then limit contact if necessary.

I think she has poor stress management skills and there are stressors in her life. 

[Islandgal]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

I think she has poor stress management skills and there are stressors in her life. 

Maybe suggest a book that gives her some coping mechanisms???

[BlsdMama]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

I think she has poor stress management skills and there are stressors in her life. 

Perhaps you could send her a link explaining catharsis is outdated and that venting only serves to fuel her anger and stress?

 

Honestly? I would have to distance myself. Not because I’ve out grown her but just because it’s not healthy for me to be on the receiving end of it all the time. I just couldn’t. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Pen said:

Or, just straight out ask, “why is that bothering you ?”

I was thisclose to asking that about a recent thing. I couldn’t think of any way to say it that didn’t sound condescending. 

[Guest]

General thought: she’s close enough a friend that I would feel bad “abandoning” her. This is one thing about me: I want to see people get to their better selves, kwim?

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

I was thisclose to asking that about a recent thing. I couldn’t think of any way to say it that didn’t sound condescending. 

 

Hmmm maybe would help if In your mind you can think of a legit serious reason?  Like in rainbow hair analogy it the friend were worried about their own young adult kids behavior and displacing onto the celebrity? 

Or maybe just let it sound condescending.  ?

 

Or take the I statement approach?

 

“I feel distressed and annoyed (or whatever is accurate for you) when you complain about things like celebrity hair dye .”

[Islandgal]

14 minutes ago, Quill said:

General thought: she’s close enough a friend that I would feel bad “abandoning” her. This is one thing about me: I want to see people get to their better selves, kwim?

For me, it would depend how much of her situation she has confided in me. If she has, I would be inclined to call her out on it, and help her process.

If she hasn't, I'd leave it alone. You can't make her see what you want her to see. Maybe in time, if you have the patience. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Islandgal

[Chris in VA]

Is she spectrum-y? I ask because I notice in myself a tendency to get distressed over some things that don't really matter. In my trying to become more self-aware and see what Aspie tendencies I have, I am now conscious of spending a great deal of time figuring out how the world works, what is "right," definitions of things that are pretty fundamental but are changing in some quarters (gender, for example), etc. When something comes along to shake that up, I get pissy sometimes. Perhaps some of that is going on with her. 

[MercyA]

That sounds exhausting. I think your response about not spending mental energy on it is perfect and maybe eventually it will start to sink in.

Sometimes I've found it helpful to say something like (if this is true for you), "Yeah, I used to get upset about things like that, too, but then I figured out it just isn't worth my time and energy! I've got enough going on. Not my monkeys, not my circus, you know?" 

[catz]

42 minutes ago, Quill said:

General thought: she’s close enough a friend that I would feel bad “abandoning” her. This is one thing about me: I want to see people get to their better selves, kwim?

Is she receptive to more intimate conversation about this kind of thing?  People can only change if they chose to do so.  You can lead a horse to water blah blah blah.  I guess if you haven't broached it with her, you could try gently turning it around to her "Why does this bother you?  You must have something else on your mind right?" 

If this isn't a super close friend, but someone you must interact with occasionally, I have found if I engage and change the subject consistently (ie interesting, pass the bean dip please.  How about that weather?), I may be able to "train" someone not to broach certain subjects with me.  Like certain family members know not to even bother talking homeschooling anymore in my presence.

But I have kind of given up giving people unsolicited opinions. They are almost never received well.  I agree that if that means you need to limit time with this person and have firmer boundaries for your mental health, I think that is totally fine.  I have some pretty firm boundaries in this regard.  

Edited January 23, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[fairfarmhand]

“Well...it’s that time of year.”

 

[Tanaqui]

Just curious, Quill - what happens if, instead of trying to defuse, you straight up disagree? Enthusiastically, I mean. So in response to the hair, if you said "I saw! It looks so cool! I wonder how she got that effect? I was thinking about trying it myself. I'd use washable dyes, though, in case I don't like it.

(I may be trying to be helpful, or I may be trying to stir up trouble. Even I'm not sure.)

Edited January 24, 2020 by Tanaqui

[catz]

13 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Can't believe I forgot to mention this - anger can be a sign of depression. 

Not everyone with depression presents as 'sad' and presenting as angry is reasonably common.

Yes!   And/or anxiety.  It often manifests this way in people who don't have good tools to process emotions.  I was a pretty angry teen/young adult.  Working with a therapist was very helpful.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

Just curious, Quill - what happens if, instead of trying to defuse, you straight up disagree? Enthusiastically, I mean. So in response to the hair, if you said "I saw! It looks so cool! I wonder how she got that effect? I was thinking about trying it myself. I'd use washable dyes, though, in case I don't like it.

(I may be trying to be helpful, or I may be trying to stir up trouble. Even I'm not sure.)

I have disagreed sometimes, or pointed out instances that were like that but were successful. So like if I said, “Several famous people have done the rainbow hair lately. I kind of admire the guts it takes to do that. And I thought Joe Blow’s hair looked pretty attractive, actually.” Sometimes she has dropped it but others she has come up with more negative examples to underscore her point. 

I don’t know, I could probably execute that more decisively. I remember doing that one time - call it a hard re-frame - with dh when I knew he wouldn’t like the way the logo printed on his business card. He was saying, “It’s so red! My company colors are    Maroon! Black and grey! But this is Red and black.” And I said, “It looks SO GOOD! It turned out great!” 😏 It was like, “Lalala, I don’t hear the negative sentiment you’re expressing.” Heh. 

[Slache]

My mother does this with everything (and her name is Sue!). We would be driving down the street and she would see a child in flip-flops and start screaming about how kids shouldn't wear those because it's bad for their feet or we'd be sitting in the living room and she would look out the window and start ranting and raving about how the neighbors marriage is obviously falling apart and she's so sick of having to watch it.

I have no solution. If it's what I'm picturing I would walk away. I chose the gray rock technique and she walked away from me 3 years ago.

[Slache]

If she's trying to get a rise out of you I would use Grey Rock with those particular instances.

[gardenmom5]

I agree with suggestions she is deflecting from her own issues instead of dealing with them.  That is also in line with possible depression. 

[mathnerd]

I have a similar in-law who gets loudly angry about trivial issues that are none of their business. In their case, they are bored out of their minds, are looking to engage in a manner that invigorates their brain (e.g. target a naive in-law who will unintentionally say that this is none of our business and hence give them the launching pad to get into animated arguments on how the world should be run, in their prized opinion!). I learned to deflect and move on. I can tell that this person realizes that I am taking the fight out of them by deflecting and is unhappy with me. 

The person in question will incessantly pick on every single thing from movie posters to the color of paint in someone's bedroom to be disproportionately angry about - this person is not very mobile, still lives in the past when people deferred to them for "good advise" and thinks that they are entitled to people putting up with their explosions of angry words. That could be the reason that they behave that way. But, if your friend is not like that, then, it could be other reasons.

Deflect and say that you have no idea who that celebrity is or for e.g. if it is about a restaurant menu, then say that you hardly eat out these days etc.

[SKL]

Maybe humor could diffuse it?  Like when she says "WTH with these people with the rainbow hair!!" I would probably laugh and say something funny or just say "I find it kinda funny."  "Well I don't find it funny, it's disgusting and the world is going to hell in a handbasket!"  "I see this is a very serious matter for you," in a straight face followed by a grin.  Straight face again -  "Is it all multicolor hair or only the kind that includes the full color spectrum?"  "I'm feeling inspired now.  Just for fun, I'm going to get my hair colored blue and gold before our next lunch."  Or "She was probably trying for auburn but something went wrong."

Edited January 24, 2020 by SKL

[Pen]

I think one way or another trying to nicely directly address it might be best.

 Since she’s important to you.  She may not even realize it’s bothering you, and maybe if she clearly did, then she would and could desist.  

Or if not maybe you could jointly work out how to handle it. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Slache said:

My mother does this with everything (and her name is Sue!). We would be driving down the street and she would see a child in flip-flops and start screaming about how kids shouldn't wear those because it's bad for their feet or we'd be sitting in the living room and she would look out the window and start ranting and raving about how the neighbors marriage is obviously falling apart and she's so sick of having to watch it.

I have no solution. If it's what I'm picturing I would walk away. I chose the gray rock technique and she walked away from me 3 years ago.

It’s exactly like that. She would do exactly those things. 

What is Grey Rock? Is that where you respond as much as a grey rock would? 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

Maybe humor could diffuse it?  Like when she says "WTH with these people with the rainbow hair!!" I would probably laugh and say something funny or just say "I find it kinda funny."  "Well I don't find it funny, it's disgusting and the world is going to hell in a handbasket!"  "I see this is a very serious matter for you," in a straight face followed by a grin.  Straight face again -  "Is it all multicolor hair or only the kind that includes the full color spectrum?"  "I'm feeling inspired now.  Just for fun, I'm going to get my hair colored blue and gold before our next lunch."  Or "She was probably trying for auburn but something went wrong."

I do most often try yo lighten it up. Sometimes I use humor if something presents, other times I just try to project complete un-bothered-ness and change the subject. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

I think one way or another trying to nicely directly address it might be best.

 Since she’s important to you.  She may not even realize it’s bothering you, and maybe if she clearly did, then she would and could desist.  

Or if not maybe you could jointly work out how to handle it. 

She’s so touchy, though, my instinct is that she would just turn her anger to me. I can imagine something like this:

”Oh, that rainbow-colored hair! So stupid-looking!”

”You seem really bothered about that hair. Is there something else upsetting you?”

Defensively: “No! I’m not the one with the problem, it’s this liberal world we live in and these stupid kids who never had anyone tell them No...” 

Me: Staring at my coffee cup. Don’t know where to go with this now...should have stopped at Smile and Wave...

[Slache]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

It’s exactly like that. She would do exactly those things. 

What is Grey Rock? Is that where you respond as much as a grey rock would? 

Pretty much.

"I hate such n' such!" "Ok"

"This person is an idiot!" "Alright."

Very boring, like a grey rock. As few words as possible. It's actually a technique for dealing with NPD which is what this sounds like. Here are my memorized responses for dealing with a certain someone. Some will probably be irrelevant.

1. 1. I’m sorry you feel that way.

   2. I see you feel strongly, but I see things differently.

   3. I can accept that that’s how you feel.

   4. That’s possible.

   5. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. What are you going to do about it?

   6. Your anger is not my responsibility.

   7. Let’s talk about this when you're feeling calmer.

   8. What I think and feel does not have to match what you think and feel.

If anyone likes these I have more for more toxic situations.

[Slache]

15 minutes ago, Quill said:

I do most often try yo lighten it up. Sometimes I use humor if something presents, other times I just try to project complete un-bothered-ness and change the subject. 

How?

10 minutes ago, Quill said:

She’s so touchy, though, my instinct is that she would just turn her anger to me.

Yes.

[Katy]

If this was a close friend and you know she is going through stressful circumstances, I would gently say something like, "Hmmmm.....  Honey, it's not like you to get so annoyed by a stranger's hair.  I've noticed little things have been bothering you a lot lately.  I know you've been having a rough time.  I'm starting to worry the stress is affecting your mental health. Being that bothered by hair..  I'm starting to worry about you.  Have you asked your doctor about depression or anxiety?"

Especially If this friend is in peri-menoupause...  mostly because a couple female family members (both sides of my parents families, didn't know of each other) committed suicide around that age. No idea if it's a more likely age or not, but it is in my family.  I suppose women are at greater risk any time there are hormonal changes.

If it was an acquaintance I would drop them.  Years ago I had one acquaintance like this that I must have made an ugly face at when he said something like this, because I got out of there as soon as possible and maybe 6 weeks later he came back and apologized for "being weird" and told me he'd been diagnosed with depression and was on medication now.

[Tree Frog]

26 minutes ago, Quill said:

”You seem really bothered about that hair. Is there something else upsetting you?”

Defensively: “No! I’m not the one with the problem, it’s this liberal world we live in and these stupid kids who never had anyone tell them No...” 

Me: Staring at my coffee cup. Don’t know where to go with this now...should have stopped at Smile and Wave...

Change "stupid kids" to "millenials" and that's how someone close to me responds to a lot of what he sees, despite having 3 successful kids who take offense to the statement. I'm following for ideas because it's very frustrating to have to listen to the constant complaints. Nothing is ever right.

[Islandgal]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

She’s so touchy, though, my instinct is that she would just turn her anger to me. I can imagine something like this:

”Oh, that rainbow-colored hair! So stupid-looking!”

”You seem really bothered about that hair. Is there something else upsetting you?”

Defensively: “No! I’m not the one with the problem, it’s this liberal world we live in and these stupid kids who never had anyone tell them No...” 

Me: Staring at my coffee cup. Don’t know where to go with this now...should have stopped at Smile and Wave...

I have a friend exactly like this! Every single time I have disagreed, or even hinted there may be another way or reason why people do things, she becomes irate with me. I am not easily irked, but when she does it I want to scream and pull out my hair!

For YEARS, I have recommended books and therapists, been a listening ear for her personal problems for hours on end, and researched coping mechanisms, to no avail. She tries things for a week, says it's not working and throws it down. Granted, she admits she is depressed but feels stuck. My first instinct is to always help if someone discloses they are in pain, going through a rough time, or if I see someone suffering. My relationship with her has taught me you can't fix people, no matter how badly you want to. When I see her, which is on a weekly basis, I either ignore her rants if possible, or reply with a nod.

I think it's likely she is on the spectrum. I suggested that to her once, her response was so off the wall you'd have thought I killed her dog or something. She has little to no friends, so I feel obligated to maintain the status quo, but it is so draining!

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Islandgal

[wintermom]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

She’s so touchy, though, my instinct is that she would just turn her anger to me. I can imagine something like this:

”Oh, that rainbow-colored hair! So stupid-looking!”

”You seem really bothered about that hair. Is there something else upsetting you?”

Defensively: “No! I’m not the one with the problem, it’s this liberal world we live in and these stupid kids who never had anyone tell them No...” 

Me: Staring at my coffee cup. Don’t know where to go with this now...should have stopped at Smile and Wave...

Gently: You are pretty much doing the same thing as she is, but your issue/complaint is about her behaviour.  You can only control your own behaviour. You aren't going to "fix" her. 

[Farrar]

I've known some people who gripe a lot about random stuff... it is just blowing off steam and not some horribly unhealthy mechanism. I used to be in a friend group where one person was a griper about all kinds of stuff, both in her life and in the world. One day another person in the group really blew up at her over it and was like, you're so negative, you're deeply unhappy, you're trying to ruin everything around you, etc. I was like, whoa, because I had never perceived it that way at all. But it had been building up that way for this other friend for awhile. The griper was also really surprised. She really wasn't unhappy and she didn't see it that way at all. She just... liked to unload and move on from the stuff in her life and was maybe a little gossipy and judgey about celebrities and news and so forth, but not in some truly horrible way. I mean, there's some weird line between "celebrity hair looks so dumb and horrible and I want to laugh at them" and "celebrity hair is an indicator that society is doomed."

It does sound like your friend is... overly fixated, Quill. And if you think she would turn on you if you asked her a kind question about whether it was really getting to her or tried to change the subject, then that's a pretty bad indication. But I also... I don't know. I often find that our perception of each other is generally skewed. What people think they're seeing isn't always what they're seeing.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

She’s so touchy, though, my instinct is that she would just turn her anger to me. I can imagine something like this:

”Oh, that rainbow-colored hair! So stupid-looking!”

”You seem really bothered about that hair. Is there something else upsetting you?”

Defensively: “No! I’m not the one with the problem, it’s this liberal world we live in and these stupid kids who never had anyone tell them No...” 

Me: Staring at my coffee cup. Don’t know where to go with this now...should have stopped at Smile and Wave...

 

Then I think I’d try the personal I statement approach:

“I’m probably pretty touchy lately because of my health issues and some other things going on in my life, it would mean a lot to me if you would please talk about some more uplifting things. I find that hearing about how angry ______ (the real thing she’s ranting about) makes you is really getting me down.” And then immediately introduce another subject, like, “I’m going to try an aerobic conditioning program 3 times per week, do you have any suggestions what would work well and do you have any interest in doing a session together every week or two?”

or whatever you think you could shift to

[SKL]

I agree that if it's a good friend, you could ask her to help lift you up.

I also agree that it's a bad idea to approach this as "I want to fix her."  Take care of yourself, be real, but always treat friends as equals.

I have a friend who always thinks she needs to "fix" people.  Oh my gosh.  She is a true friend, but that is so annoying to everyone she tries it on.  (And she is persistent!)  Yes I know I have room for improvement, but why do you think you're the person to fix me?  You aren't perfect either, by a long shot!  (And any time you go there, a big fight ensues because you are being mean to her when she's just caring for your happiness.)

[HS Mom in NC]

My bipolar kid is like that when she's not on meds, or when they're working on adjusting meds, or they have to change meds because of other meds for other medical issues.  We just change the subject to something we know she's likely interested in because there's no point in trying to reason with someone so unreasonable. And yes, we help with medical costs and now that she's nearby, I go to the doctor with her when she asks me to, so it's not like we just shrug and do nothing, but we don't spend emotional energy on things we don't have control over.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Slache said:

How?

Yes.

I would say something like, “Oh, yeah, I heard that rainbow-hair thing was popular among the young people.” 

Or I might just say, “I hadn’t seen that,” or “I don’t know that person; I really don’t pay much attention to celebrities.” (Which is true.) 

[OH_Homeschooler]

I also agree that this could be a sign of depression or a traumatic reaction (just based on my own experiences). I'm probably still miserable, but I remember a time in my mid-20s when I was just horrible! I hated everyone and everything. And then I was finally diagnosed with depression. I also notice this in my daughter now, that she is just extremely critical when she is feeling down (she is on depression medication but sometimes this is how I can tell if she needs to increase her dose). 

As for how knowing this (if it's true) might help your interactions, I'm not sure. Maybe, "Gosh, I've noticed that when I'm feeling down I'm just really critical of everything, and every little thing bugs me. Have you ever noticed that?"