UPDATE in 1st post: Ranting here so I don’t rant there

[Garga]

SECOND UPDATE:

Ok. I’ve calmed down in the hour or so since I updated this below.. It really isn’t a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I do think I’ve been totally manipulated and that the story about the death in the family of the person who was going to pick up Nephew’s gf is a lie...but whatever.  I am usually a pretty calm person and I can’t maintain being upset over this.  I’m back to being calm.

UPDATE:

I lost.

MIL said to DH way back on Christmas Day, “If you don’t change the time, I’m afraid that they won’t come.”  “They” include DH’s brother, SIL, and two grown nephews. I thought that was just silly.  As if they wouldn’t come because of the time change!  Like they would throw a little fit or something.  But she was very upset at the thought.  (She’s in her mid-70s and starting to show a touch of mental decline and dwells on things like this too much.)  

So, here it is 2 days before our Christmas Eve party, that we changed to January 4th because SIL wanted to bake cookies with her dad, “Like I always do,” except this is the first any of us have heard of it.  And I get a text tonight saying, “I know you like to meet later and we like to meet earlier, so can we compromise and meet around 1 ro 2ish? Nephew has to pick up his girlfriend from the airport at 5:00 that day.”  (Nephew is 24.)

I’m thinking, “Compromise?  How is it that we ‘compromise’ by changing the time to exactly what YOU want??”  

I tell her, “I wish you’d told me this back before Christmas when we made the plans.  It’s two days before the party.”  

She told me that she only found out about Nephew having to pick up girlfriend tonight.  She said someone else was supposed to pick up the girlfriend, but due to a death in the family they couldn’t.  

It’s reeeeally stretching my patience to believe that one. Seriously? They’ve been hinting to MIL that they’d like the time changed and now all of a sudden, two days before the event, someone dies and we have to change the time to the exact time they wanted all along?

I’m only changing it because I don’t want to break poor MIL’s heart.  Because if we don’t change it, then her grandson won’t be there and she’ll be so sad.  

I had calmed down about it since Christmas Day, but now I’m all riled up again!!  I was not gracious about it either.  I’ve never not been gracious in my life.  I wrote back, “We can compromise by changing it to the time you want. Go ahead. 1:00. Tell Mom please.”  So, now I’m the one ending up being a jerk. I don’t like being a jerk!

****************************

ORIGINAL POST:

I have to rant here, because I’m going to see my MIL in 2 hours and I don’t want to lay into her.  She’s just the poor bystander who needs to get out of the middle.  But if I don’t pour this out somewhere, I’m gonna mess up her Christmas. 

——-

Backstory: 

I grew up as an only child with my mom and dad.  There wasn’t another relative closer than 3000 miles away.  Having holidays with my mom and dad was important to me and I mourned not having more family nearby.

My parents moved 2500 miles away from me when I was 22.  Holidays were now spent with only DH and his family.  We are all nice-enough people, but our personalities don’t mesh.  There are often long silences where no one really knows what to say because we just don’t mesh.  

My sister-in-law, who is married into the family 20 years ago, doesn’t really like spending time with her in-laws (who are also my in-laws—we’ll call them the Gargas.). Well, sister-in-law, I don’t much like it either either, but it’s not like we’re all fighting. We just get bored with each other and then we go home.

On Easter, she wants to spend time with her own family, so the Gargas have to have Easter lunch instead of Easter dinner so she can get home to her own family. Ok. I can handle that.

But then, on Thanksgiving, it’s the same thing.  I, along with the other Gargas, have to eat Thanksgiving dinner at 1:30 in the afternoon, so that SIL can get home to her real family.  I reeeeeally hate that.  Not only am I spending my Thanksgiving with the Gargas and not my own family whom I miss terribly at the holidays, but I have to eat dinner at some odd hour of the afternoon, and come 6:00 that night my kids are hungry and asking me, “What’s for dinner??”  Well, leftovers sure, but we don’t really like eating the same meal twice in one day. But we accommodate and no one complains. 

The Gargas always have a Christmas Eve dinner.  Always.  It’s been that way for 26 years.  Christmas Eve, we have dinner together.  At dinner time—5:30ish.  And we order food in from pizza places and subs so no one frets over cooking.  We order our food, open our presents, and it’s actually pretty nice because there’s not all the fuss about cooking and cleaning and we have something to do (open presents) so we don’t get as bored with each other. SIL is ok with this, because she spends Christmas Day with her family.

Current issue:

Well...this year, SIL decided that she didn’t want to spend Christmas Eve with the Gargas.  She said, “I am going to bake cookies with my dad, like I always do.”  Like she always does?  She’s been married into this family for 20 years and she’s never once made cookies on Christmas Eve night with her dad, unless she’s meaning like she used to do 20 years ago.

So, the rest of the Gargas agreed to have our Christmas Eve dinner on another day.  We’re being nice about it, because if someone doesn’t like the tradition, we’re not going to be turds about it and force them to keep it up.  But since there are only 12 of us in the entire family in this area, we’re not willing to have the celebration with one missing. And if SIL doesn’t make it, then probably her DH and grown kids won’t come either.  So, if we still had our Christmas Eve dinner on Christmas Eve, then there would be only 8 of us and my MIL would be super sad that her son, dil, and grandkids weren’t there with her, when we could simply choose another day and all be there.

So, we will all change our Christmas Eve dinner to Jan 4th.  It’s at my house at 4:30.  We all confirmed that 4:30 works for us.  It’s on a Saturday so no one has to get up early the next day for work.  And my SIL and her family will only stay 2.5 hours at the most, so they’ll be on the road by 7:00 so they won’t have a late night.  We always have it around 4:30/5:00ish.  This is just What We Do.

And now SIL has indicated to MIL that she wants the time to be earlier in the day.  “Like how we always get together around 1ish.”  

NO WE DON’T.  

You’ve messed with twenty of my Thanksgivings by forcing them to be at 1:30 every year.  You’ve messed with twenty of my Easters.  You’ve decided to mess with my Christmas Eve by changing the date because you like your dad better than us and don’t care how it hurts the rest of us for you to say it.

You are NOT messing with my DINNER.  I am not eating dinner at frickin’ 1:30 in the afternoon.  We meet at 4:30 and we eat around 5:30.  At dinner time.  Full stop. I like having our dinner at dinner time.  I like it that it’s dark and we can see our Christmas lights all lit up on the tree.  I like it that it’s dark and we can light a candle.  I like it that the main meal of the day and dessert is eaten when we Americans traditionally eat the main meal and dessert—at night. It’s probably stupid, but holidays just don’t feel real and special when the sun is blazing, unless it’s July 4th.  I want that warm-inside, cold and dark-outside, eating a dinner around the table together feeling.  I just do.  I only ever get it once a year on Christmas Eve.  

My poor MIL has mentioned it twice on the phone to my DH that SIL wants to change the time and he’s told her, “SIL hasn’t told us. You really need to stay out of the middle. If SIL wants the time changed, she needs to tell us herself.  It’s not fair to you to be stuck in the middle.”  

——-

We meet with my MIL, FIL, and Aunt-in-law in two hours at the local chinese buffet and if poor MIL brings it up, I’m afraid I’ll rant at her like I did above.  I’m not mad at MIL, I’m mad at SIL, and it will make MIL feel sad to hear me rant about it.  So...ranting is now out of my system.  I’m going to tell her this part of the truth (because this part IS true), “The boys already have plans for the morning and early afternoon of Jan 4th. They’re already cutting their plans short to get together at 4:30. I can’t change the time unless there’s a serious reason.”  And then I’ll leave it at that.  I won’t rant at MIL on Christmas Day. 

Thank you guys for letting me rant at you.  

Edited January 3, 2020 by Garga

[Selkie]

I say that if you're the one making dinner, you're the one who gets to set the time.

[maize]

We are more than happy to be ranted to!

I hope you can enjoy the Chinese buffet now.

[Robin M]

6 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I say that if you're the one making dinner, you're the one who gets to set the time.

Exactly. 

Stick to your plans since it is at your house.  Hugs! 

[Katy]

Your house, your timing.

Is SIL or one of her family members having a health crisis of some kind?  Is dad dying or showing signs of dementia?  Is SIL showing signs of early onset alzheimer's?

[RootAnn]

Sounds like you've been accommodating already. With your DH & kids behind you, time to put your foot down to SIL. I hope you can keep the ranting here so you can be quietly firm there. Hugs!

[Tanaqui]

Sounds like dinner is at your house? Honestly, I'd tell SIL - if she ever broaches this with you! - that if she doesn't want to come, she doesn't have to.

[TravelingChris]

As someone who really needs to start her own rant, I agree w others do not change the time.

[alisoncooks]

Wow. SIL needs a solid "suck it up, buttercup." 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Has your dh ever talked to his brother about this to get his take on what is going on?

[sweet2ndchance]

Sounds like SIL knows that MIL will bend over backwards to have all of her family together and uses it that fact to her advantage. Whether she is doing it purposely or just generally thinks the world revolves around her and does whatever it takes to keep her world in order, I can't tell but that is definitely what it looks like to me at least. I wouldn't back down on the time dinner is being served at my house either if it were me but I have a reputation for being very hard headed on some of the weirdest things, so take that for what you will.

Does SIL possibly have some sort of issue, mental or physical, that makes traveling at night hard for her? You know, like bad night vision or some other reason that driving at night makes her uneasy? Does she turn into an ogre or something after the sun sets each night? Has she ever given an indication that it is anything more than inconvenient for her to have dinner instead of lunch with her husband's family? The only reason I ask is because if she's not just being a little princess who bullies her husband and her MIL through manipulation into doing things her way all the time outside of this dinner thing, I would be more inclined to possibly have an earlier dinner since MIL's whole deal is wanting to have all the family together. If the only thing she is suffering from is princess syndrome, I would be much more inclined to tell her "Sorry to hear you can't make it. Your husband and kids are still more than welcome to come without you since you can't come. See ya next year maybe."

Or my husband's response to this is also appropriate, "If you want to pick the time, SIL, then you can host this family get-together next year. But THIS YEAR, when I am hosting it at MY HOUSE, we are having dinner at XXXX time. Hope you can make it."

Edited December 26, 2019 by sweet2ndchance

[school17777]

Did you make it through without ranting?

[Garga]

42 minutes ago, school17777 said:

Did you make it through without ranting?

I did!  I felt much cooler once I typed it all out. I was prepared to stick with my “the kids can’t get there before 4:30” routine, but MIL didn’t mention it, so I didn’t have to.

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Garga

[Garga]

4 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Sounds like SIL knows that MIL will bend over backwards to have all of her family together and uses it that fact to her advantage. Whether she is doing it purposely or just generally thinks the world revolves around her and does whatever it takes to keep her world in order, I can't tell but that is definitely what it looks like to me at least. I wouldn't back down on the time dinner is being served at my house either if it were me but I have a reputation for being very hard headed on some of the weirdest things, so take that for what you will.

Does SIL possibly have some sort of issue, mental or physical, that makes traveling at night hard for her? You know, like bad night vision or some other reason that driving at night makes her uneasy? Does she turn into an ogre or something after the sun sets each night? Has she ever given an indication that it is anything more than inconvenient for her to have dinner instead of lunch with her husband's family? The only reason I ask is because if she's not just being a little princess who bullies her husband and her MIL through manipulation into doing things her way all the time outside of this dinner thing, I would be more inclined to possibly have an earlier dinner since MIL's whole deal is wanting to have all the family together. If the only thing she is suffering from is princess syndrome, I would be much more inclined to tell her "Sorry to hear you can't make it. Your husband and kids are still more than welcome to come without you since you can't come. See ya next year maybe."

Or my husband's response to this is also appropriate, "If you want to pick the time, SIL, then you can host this family get-together next year. But THIS YEAR, when I am hosting it at MY HOUSE, we are having dinner at XXXX time. Hope you can make it."

 

I think it might be inadvertent princess syndrome. On one hand she comes across as down to earth and capable and steady, but there are some odd things that have happened to her that makes her self-centered in certain areas, probably without even knowing she’s being that way.  

So...dinner is at 4:30 unless she says something about vision issues in the dark or some other such thing. And for someone else who asked, she’s in her mid-40s, so I dearly hope it’s not early dementia!  😄

[maize]

23 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

 

12 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

I think it might be inadvertent princess syndrome. On one hand she comes across as down to earth and capable and steady, but there are some odd things that have happened to her that makes her self-centered in certain areas, probably without even knowing she’s being that way.  

So...dinner is at 4:30 unless she says something about vision issues in the dark or some other such thing. And for someone else who asked, she’s in her mid-40s, so I dearly hope it’s not early dementia!  😄

Night vision issues would have to afflict both spouses for even this to be a valid excuse... my husband does have trouble with night vision so I do the nighttime driving.

[sweet2ndchance]

1 hour ago, maize said:

 

Night vision issues would have to afflict both spouses for even this to be a valid excuse... my husband does have trouble with night vision so I do the nighttime driving.

I think it doesn't necessarily have to affect both to be a problem. My night vision is steadily getting worse now that I'm in my 40s. It's not horrible yet and I still do drive at night when I need to and, personally, I wouldn't ask the host to change their plans for me. I would either plan to leave early or stay the night somewhere or if it wasn't too far, I might just do it and know that I will be exhausted the next day from stress.

But that said, my husband has this huge fear of deer when he is driving lmao! Like he is in panic mode driving at night or in the early morning or near dusk, pretty much any time of day that isn't broad daylight lol. We live in a rural area and we see deer on a daily basis almost year round. Certain routes we have to take around here, it isn't unusual to sight deer 5 or 6 times just one way on our way to somewhere. Dh is a nervous wreck driving at night. That's why I often do any driving we need to do at night but even with me driving, it still stresses him out that a deer could jump out in front of me at any time. FWIW, I've never hit a deer or even come close but he has. It was just one of those things that no one could have predicted or avoided.

Just saying, they don't both have to have bad night vision necessarily for there to be a good reason. At least not in my opinion. 

[Tanaqui]

Sure, but if she has a reason to not want to drive at night AND for her husband not to handle the driving, well, she's a grown woman. She needs to say it.

[KungFuPanda]

Ugh.  This would make me angry.  We're generally flexible about times and dates, BUT if she's usurping ALL of the good times for her preferred family EVERY year, that's just nuts.  The holidays are so close together that I wouldn't be the least bit upset of someone was missing from one or the other dinner as long as we spent SOME time with them at some point in during the season.  It's a 4-week time frame.  

Of course, I would never bother to worry that ALL are present and accounted for at EVERY event.  I'd probably do lunch for one holiday to accommodate her then do dinner for the other and let her adapt or miss out.  Maybe you need to have a direct conversation with your sister-in-law and work out a compromise.  It sounds like the family you both married into is willing to be pushed around so you two will have to work it out and just inform them of the schedule.  

"Hey, SIL, I know you like to reserve all of the best times/dates for your preferred family, but how about throwing us a bone for ONE holiday a year?"

[May]

SIL sounds high maintenance🙄Stick to your guns and have dinner when you want it.

[Arctic Bunny]

I think you should give your DH a big ol’ hug for handling it the way he is, and not throwing it to you.

[Bluegoat]

I wonder if she really would like to not come to some of these dinners. And you are all so accommodating she isn't getting anywhere with her plan!

[Farrar]

I'm guessing she's just as meh and mildly unhappy about these dinners as you are and she's pushing back on them as a result. But then I'd also be like, and now I will also push right back too and hopefully we can meet in the middle with a nice, civil compromise. As in, you moved the date and now she can suck it up about the time. Which it sounds like is what's happening.

[Sk8ermaiden]

Ugh, my now ex-SIL was like that too. "Like we always do!" Um, I don't know who you think you're gaslighting, but none of us have such poor memories. 

[Matryoshka]

Your house, your rules, and besides this is the way you guys have always done it, so have it when it makes you happy.  SIL should accommodate the host.

But... I just have to point out that Dinner just means "the biggest meal of the day" and can be served either midday or in the evening.  Our family has always had Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter dinners at midday (actually around 1-2 pm), and I would find having holiday dinners in the evening the weirdest (although if I were invited somewhere the tradition was different I would show up at the time requested and not make a fuss).  Then in the evening we either don't eat much, or have a light supper - which is what the evening meal is called if you had dinner midday.  Both my dh's family and my SIL's family also do holiday dinners in the afternoon - I thought that was normal!  

Christmas Eve, however, is an evening meal.  Because, you know, Eve = Evening. 😉

[cjzimmer1]

9 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Your house, your rules, and besides this is the way you guys have always done it, so have it when it makes you happy.  SIL should accommodate the host.

But... I just have to point out that Dinner just means "the biggest meal of the day" and can be served either midday or in the evening.  Our family has always had Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter dinners at midday (actually around 1-2 pm), and I would find having holiday dinners in the evening the weirdest (although if I were invited somewhere the tradition was different I would show up at the time requested and not make a fuss).  Then in the evening we either don't eat much, or have a light supper - which is what the evening meal is called if you had dinner midday.  Both my dh's family and my SIL's family also do holiday dinners in the afternoon - I thought that was normal!  

Christmas Eve, however, is an evening meal.  Because, you know, Eve = Evening. 😉

I was thinking the same thing.  My family holiday's have always been an early afternoon meal.  So arrive between 11:00-12:00 and eat between 1 and 2.  We went to an extended family's once and assumed it would be a late lunch based on when we were told to arrive so didn't eat before coming.  Turned out they were the supper type of family and the meal wasn't planned until 6:00.  My kids were an absolute mess because they were so hungry.  Even the appetizers weren't put out until 4:30.  I didn't bring extra food other than my contribution because I assume were were eating in the afternoon and would have leftovers for supper.  Definitely not an enjoyable experience but I do respect than others have different traditions (just wish I had known that in advance).   I'm wondering if her "like we always do" about the afternoon meal is in relation to the 20 years of Easter's and Thanksgiving meals that are always in the afternoon and so to her mind that is the "normal" time to do a holiday meal.  So while you've been feeling like your holiday's have been messed up by the repeated mid day meals, perhaps she is feeling that way about the idea of a nighttime meal and has just spoken up sooner about that than you have.  

I'm sorry you are finding this so difficult, hopefully you find a solution that is at least passable to all parties.

[Storygirl]

I'm sorry, Garga. I'm glad that SIL hasn't proposed moving the time to you directly. Perhaps she has decided to compromise. It sounds to me like the two of you both have strong feelings about how things should be, and that your feelings just don't match each other. That doesn't mean that one of you is wrong, but it does mean that both should be willing to compromise.

It sounds like this year, your side is compromising by having the dinner on a different day, so that she can spend Christmas Eve with her dad. Which seems fine to me -- you may have bruised feelings about it, but she should get to see him if she wants, without you feeling it is a rejection. He is her family. I wonder if your strong reaction to that is related to your own feelings of not getting to see YOUR parents around the holidays?

You seem pretty upset at her in the OP for wanting to spend time with her family of origin around the holidays and how that impacts the Garga family plans. I understand your feelings, but it really is reasonable for her to want that. I don't think that your anger about it is justified. I think this is your issue to deal with emotionally, and that she is not in the wrong.

And she is compromising by having the meal in the evening instead of earlier. I do think that if you guys have had it at 1:30, that it does make sense for her to consider that "as we always do" -- two decades is a pretty strong precedent. 

I'm so sorry that you are having a hard time emotionally with this. But, honestly, planning the holidays is like this for every family. It just is. If you need to rant here about it, rant away!!!! But wanting to spend time with her family and suggesting alternate dates and times are not things that make your SIL a bad person; they are normal desires for her to have. So I hope you are able to rant and get it out of your system, and not hold them against her.

The holidays are stressful, but I hope that you and your family are able to enjoy them.

[teachermom2834]

I agree with the fact that you are hosting means you pick the time. Although I am a holiday dinner early in the day type of person so I do understand that perspective.

However I am realizing that I host almost all holidays AND I let other people tell me what time we will have it. No wonder I get grumpy.

[Garga]

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

I'm sorry, Garga. I'm glad that SIL hasn't proposed moving the time to you directly. Perhaps she has decided to compromise. It sounds to me like the two of you both have strong feelings about how things should be, and that your feelings just don't match each other. That doesn't mean that one of you is wrong, but it does mean that both should be willing to compromise.

It sounds like this year, your side is compromising by having the dinner on a different day, so that she can spend Christmas Eve with her dad. Which seems fine to me -- you may have bruised feelings about it, but she should get to see him if she wants, without you feeling it is a rejection. He is her family. I wonder if your strong reaction to that is related to your own feelings of not getting to see YOUR parents around the holidays?

You seem pretty upset at her in the OP for wanting to spend time with her family of origin around the holidays and how that impacts the Garga family plans. I understand your feelings, but it really is reasonable for her to want that. I don't think that your anger about it is justified. I think this is your issue to deal with emotionally, and that she is not in the wrong.

And she is compromising by having the meal in the evening instead of earlier. I do think that if you guys have had it at 1:30, that it does make sense for her to consider that "as we always do" -- two decades is a pretty strong precedent. 

I'm so sorry that you are having a hard time emotionally with this. But, honestly, planning the holidays is like this for every family. It just is. If you need to rant here about it, rant away!!!! But wanting to spend time with her family and suggesting alternate dates and times are not things that make your SIL a bad person; they are normal desires for her to have. So I hope you are able to rant and get it out of your system, and not hold them against her.

The holidays are stressful, but I hope that you and your family are able to enjoy them.

Yes, you are right.  And what you wrote above is why I was ranting here and not there.  On Christmas Day when I realized that my poor MIL might bring it up at dinner, I was suddenly swamped with bad feelings towards SIL for wanting to change the time.  The feelings kept swirling and swirling around and I couldn’t shake them.  

After a couple of hours of stewing on things in my head, I figured if I laid out exactly how I was feeling here, that I’d be able to release it.  Because I know full well that it’s normal for SIL to want to be with her family of origin. And I fully understand that it’s ok if someone wants to break a tradition and do things a different way.  I even support it!  

But at the same time, when someone does break away and do things differently, it does affect everyone else. And this time around I was part of the “everyone else” and it messed up a tradition that I actually loved. I was having a moment of immaturity about it and I knew I was being immature about it!  But I couldn’t seem to stop and I didn’t want that to wash over poor MIL (and FIL and Aunt-In-Law) over dinner that evening.  I had to get it all out and release it into the internet.  🙂

Edited December 27, 2019 by Garga

[Sk8ermaiden]

I think there is a big difference between "I want to see my FOO on the holidays and some traditions are important to me" and "I will do exactly what I please and not bend an inch for anyone else." It was stated that it is not that SIL prefers early holiday dinners - she seems to veiw prime holiday meal time as later and will only spend that time with *her* family, forcing the Garga's holiday meals early - and Christmas Eve was not a compromise - the only reason she allowed it was because it wasn't an important holiday time to her. 

Some people are just EXTREMELY selfish and it's OK to recognize that. My now Ex-SIl was like that. Everyone in the whole family bent over backwards to accomodate her selfish and frequently-changed demands. I'm fairly certain that she really did not want to spend any time at my in-laws at all, but her husband and child also were not ever allowed to go anywhere without her, so...

Small consolation was that I am pretty sure we drove her INSANE by constanly accomodating her ridiculousness. She wanted to be able to say she couldn't come but it was impossible to do when we were so willing to change plans for her. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Sk8ermaiden