bethben Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) I have posted here before about my struggle with insomnia. I have a LOT of trouble staying asleep. Sometimes trouble with getting to sleep. I also have some pretty tight muscles in my neck, sholders, and jaw lately. I don't feel anxiety on a regular basis. I did have my adrenal glands tested and they were running about 50% of what they should be. I am in process of addressing that particular issue with my naturalpath. I'm perimenospausal and know that my anxiety really ramps up at certain times of the month despite my efforts to regulate my hormones. I can recognize that and see it for what it is. Most of the time, I feel pretty OK with life and have worked to eliminate what stress I can. I've had extensive stress for years and have addressed quite a bit of it with a therapist, but I'm still having these sleep issues. I'm almost at the point of just talking to my doctor about anti-anxiety medication but really really want to address the root cause and not the symptom. I feel like I've done all I can to address stress and anxiety (therapy, eating right - including pro-biotic foods, exercise) but I'm still dealing with symptoms but not feelings of anxiety. Can I possibly have an anxiety issue that I'm not recognizing? ETA: I have gone through all sorts of testing of my vitamin levels and my thyroid (extensive). Even with the more sensitive tests of my natural path, I am completely within range of everything. I did have some food intolerances which have been eliminated. The only thing really off was my adrenals. Edited September 10, 2019 by bethben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes, particularly if you are sprectrum-y. I have a kid who feels everything in his body without the connection being made to his mind. We've worked on it for a years, and they are starting to be able to put a voice to things, but it registers in the body first. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said: Yes, particularly if you are sprectrum-y. I have a kid who feels everything in his body without the connection being made to his mind. We've worked on it for a years, and they are starting to be able to put a voice to things, but it registers in the body first. I don't know that I am on the spectrum, but I was very much like my son as a teen who has been diagnosed on the spectrum so I sometimes wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) My anxiety and depression first manifested as physical symptoms. Actually, I got much better at making those connections after therapy. I was raised in a faimily where feelings were just annoying and not encouraged to be expressed. And I was full of them. So I think your background can make a difference this way too. And I'm not on the spectrum but our whole family has GT quirkiness going on. I think there is so much science doesn't know abut mind-body-auto immune connections. Edited September 10, 2019 by FuzzyCatz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, bethben said: I also have some pretty tight muscles in my neck, sholders, and jaw lately. I had tight shoulders from a high adrenaline high school year (I am a workaholic by nature) and my PE teacher (female) kindly massaged my knotted shoulder blade muscles for me. Have you try self massage before sleeping? Neck and shoulder muscles being tight could be caused by posture, especially if you do a lot of desk work (sitting for a long time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes. Your normal could be a heightened state of on edge. If it has been going on long enough you might not remember a time when it was different. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes, absolutely. I live with 2 people like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jentrovert Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes. I take a medication, for something else, which is also used for anxiety. If I miss a few days, I become very anxious. Until feeling the difference on and off this medication, I would not have thought I had anxiety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said: My anxiety and depression first manifested as physical symptoms. Actually, I got much better at making those connections after therapy. I was raised in a faimily where feelings were just annoying and not encouraged to be expressed. And I was full of them. So I think your background can make a difference this way too. And I'm not on the spectrum but our whole family has GT quirkiness going on. I think there is so much science doesn't know abut mind-body-auto immune connections. My family growing up was similar so I do recognize that I have this problem. I was able to figure out why I was having such tight muscles and actually was able to acknowledge the why, but the situation hasn't changed to make the stress of it go away. The latest is that my kid's school building is not done yet so school has been delayed until an unknown date in the near future. The change of plans without a succinct date has stressed me which does sound very spectrum-y. 3 minutes ago, Jentrovert said: Yes. I take a medication, for something else, which is also used for anxiety. If I miss a few days, I become very anxious. Until feeling the difference on and off this medication, I would not have thought I had anxiety. What is that? I feel like I "should" be able to handle this naturally but it's not working so far. I also have RLS which has been addressed well with medication so I know that's not interfering. Edited September 10, 2019 by bethben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 FWIW, clonidine was helpful for one of my kids for sleep-onset disorder. It's an off label use, but WAY more helpful and without the long term side effects of melatonin, etc. If you want to be on the herbal side of things, ashwandagha and a number of other herbs are helpful for anxiety/sleep issues. The adaptogens (a class of herbs) would also all help with adrenals. Our family uses a mix of traditional and non-traditional meds. I think you're smart to think about talking about this with your doctor and naturopath. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Some of the issue with staying asleep can be hormonal, especially progesterone. You might run genetics and look at your TPH2 gene or even just try taking 5HTP. 5HTP is your precursor to serotonin, melatonin, etc. so it's your connector between anxiety and sleep problems. TPH2 converts tryptophan to 5HTP, so if you glitch that you glitch the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jentrovert Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, bethben said: What is that? I feel like I "should" be able to handle this naturally but it's not working so far. I also have RLS which has been addressed well with medication so I know that's not interfering. The med I take is Inderal. My heart beats too rapidly and I take it for the purpose of slowing my heart down. It has been around a long time, and I don't think it's used much anymore for anxiety. If I miss a few days, I get incredibly anxious. Not just the feeling of my heart beating too fast, which I lived with for years and know well, but actual anxiety. A med for anxiety may help everything else work better, giving you that extra help you need. And it may not be forever. I'm all for doing things naturally, but sometimes we need more help just to get over a rough spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemsondana Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 My husband often doesn't realize that he's stressed until I point out that he's acting like a grouch. 🙂 When I was in the throes of dealing with terrible allergies, I saw that one of the signs of allergy was sleeplessness and a feeling of impending doom. Because I can't be a normal person who gets a runny nose and then takes antihistamines, depending on the allergen this is my first symptom. The effect is so dramatic that I had to get my allergist to confirm that, indeed, bendryl doesn't treat anything but allergies, and I had a lot of weird symptoms. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes. There is someone in my family with classic anxiety symptoms, but doesn't seem to think he has anxiety (FWIW, we have lots of familial experience with mental health issues and are pretty good at recognizing classic symptoms of common disorders). Like others have said, it may not be anxiety, but having anxiety without noticing it is certainly possible. Sorry you're having a hard time. These psychosomatic responses can be so deeply ingrained they are 'normal' to us, but they are still causing us harm. I hope your natropath and/or MD can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes, a person can be unaware of anxiety (and many other things). If a person doesn't know how to categorize what they're feeling, doesn't know how to label/name it . . yes, they can be totally unaware. I've suffered from that myself in the past. Part of it was lack of self awareness, and part of it was my younger self simply not having the knowledge to label a cluster of feelings or symptoms as "x" thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes, anxiety can present in a myriad ways. I highly recommend NOT going on any anxiolytics (anti-anxiety meds) as they can often exacerbate rather than help the situation. And what I've read most recently in my herbalist studies is that anxiety can be caused by physical illness and physical illness can be caused by anxiety. Figuring out which is which can be a very helpful first step! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Maybe try magnesium glycinate before bed? Or an epsom salt bath. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 most people dont' have enough self-awareness to notice particular levels of anxiety. if a person is usually anxious - it's *normal* to them, and they dont' notice. a regular yoga practice can do wonders for releasing anxiety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Anxiety can be a response to past trauma. Trauma isn't just some big thing, like being assaulted or being in a war. It can be as seemingly "little" as an incident where you were in a position of being unable to get out of a scary or very stressful situation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth S Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 One of the frustrating symptoms of menopause is insomnia. I just remind myself that I'm not be awakened by an infant needing to be fed. I pray, plan my day, read, try to avoid screens, etc. It's just part of this season of life. Hoping you can find ways to manage this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 45 minutes ago, Beth S said: One of the frustrating symptoms of menopause is insomnia. I just remind myself that I'm not be awakened by an infant needing to be fed. I pray, plan my day, read, try to avoid screens, etc. It's just part of this season of life. Hoping you can find ways to manage this! My insomnia has been ongoing for 13 years so I know it’s not just perimenopause. It’s actually a lot better than it has been in the past. I have some things in my life that are like nails on a chalkboard and they are unable to change for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: Just a note to be careful on the 5-HTP if you try it- ramp up very slowly and pay a lot of attention to how you are feeling on it (or any med/supplement for that matter). I tried it around Christmas for insomnia and got so ill from it I wanted to die for several days. It only took three doses for me to become violently ill- I had looked at the studies, but not far enough into the side effects. Not to mention any herbal supplement here in the US are unregulated as far as production, so who knows if it was contaminated or what (even though it was name brand).......Anyway, I honestly have never been so sick in my life. After the fact I found out on study reports what happened to me is not uncommon at all with 5-HTP. I know it helps a lot of people, but seriously. It's strong stuff. Proceed with caution. Did you run genetics first? The studies I saw indicated it wasn't wise for people to take it without need, that it's definitely not a nothing or generally useful like vitamin C. Even for depression it wasn't useful unless the person actually had the TPH2 defect and therefore low 5HTP. Is it possible your symptoms were from serotonin going too high? You could look it up. It's possible it's not so much a side effect as the actual effect not being what you needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, bethben said: I have some things in my life that are like nails on a chalkboard and they are unable to change for now. This has been good for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABmom Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Someone I know didn't realize her stomach hurt until after she was on meds and it stopped hurting. It was just so normal for her, she didn't realize it wasn't normal. I also tend to have a "stage fright" feeling even when there is *nothing* I can point to causing anxiety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 hours ago, bethben said: I have posted here before about my struggle with insomnia. I have a LOT of trouble staying asleep. Sometimes trouble with getting to sleep. I also have some pretty tight muscles in my neck, sholders, and jaw lately. I don't feel anxiety on a regular basis. I did have my adrenal glands tested and they were running about 50% of what they should be. I am in process of addressing that particular issue with my naturalpath. I am probably in a very similar situation--I'm waiting on test results, and I've been perimenopausal (and early to boot) for about 7 years or so. My counselor doesn't think I have generalized anxiety, FWIW. I have food allergies that contribute to anxiety symptoms at time, but right now, my med combo for that is stable. I have/had chronic stress at a really high level. I seem to be at least somewhat hypermobile, and that causes a LOT of the tight muscles. My chiropractor has finally become convinced it's worth working on vs. just assuming it would shake out on its own. It's revolutionized my life, honestly. Wonky cortisol/adrenals can totally mess up sleep. In your position, I would address the adrenals. I assume you'll be put on some hydrocortisone or something to help right that issue. If you still have trouble, then I'd be more inclined to think anxiety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrips Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 On 9/10/2019 at 12:50 PM, bethben said: I have posted here before about my struggle with insomnia. I have a LOT of trouble staying asleep. Sometimes trouble with getting to sleep. I also have some pretty tight muscles in my neck, sholders, and jaw lately. I don't feel anxiety on a regular basis. I did have my adrenal glands tested and they were running about 50% of what they should be. I am in process of addressing that particular issue with my naturalpath. I'm perimenospausal and know that my anxiety really ramps up at certain times of the month despite my efforts to regulate my hormones. I can recognize that and see it for what it is. Most of the time, I feel pretty OK with life and have worked to eliminate what stress I can. I've had extensive stress for years and have addressed quite a bit of it with a therapist, but I'm still having these sleep issues. I'm almost at the point of just talking to my doctor about anti-anxiety medication but really really want to address the root cause and not the symptom. I feel like I've done all I can to address stress and anxiety (therapy, eating right - including pro-biotic foods, exercise) but I'm still dealing with symptoms but not feelings of anxiety. Can I possibly have an anxiety issue that I'm not recognizing? ETA: I have gone through all sorts of testing of my vitamin levels and my thyroid (extensive). Even with the more sensitive tests of my natural path, I am completely within range of everything. I did have some food intolerances which have been eliminated. The only thing really off was my adrenals. Did your vitamin work up include magnesium? That’s always our go-to for sleeping better and relaxing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Does this thread possibly relate to the weighted blankets one? Could that help sleep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 I did try the weighted blanket. I was the person who had dreams of being buried. I couldn’t do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, bethben said: I did try the weighted blanket. I was the person who had dreams of being buried. I couldn’t do it. Oh!!! I remember that post but didn’t remember it was you! Have you tried inositol and or NAC and or 5htp in addition to magnesium and other minerals? also some people have told me they get scary dreams after certain foods. Like nightmares after certain cheeses. Or feeling creepy after chocolate. Other than issues with caffeine or reflux foods , I haven’t noticed a correlation myself. But ... Bread & Pasta While we all love carbs, certain starchy foods such as bread and pasta can cause nightmares. This is because, they convert to glucose in the body and therefore have the same effects as sugary foods. A study in Plos One examined adult's sleep quality after eating certain carbs. What Food Types Can Cause Nightmares? - The Sleep Matters ... https://www.sciencealert.com/does-eating-cheese-before-bed-give-you-nightmares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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