Would you leave a 14yo, competent, reasonably well-behaved kid at home alone for a few days/nights?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Also - won't your SIL have an anniversary (or similar) at some point?  Won't you be offering to help her with that if she wants to leave town?

Yes, but she has Wonder Grammy and Poppy. Over the years, i have very rarely watched her kids. Not because I wouldnt but because I am not needed. The grandparents live nearby and are highly, highly involved. So, sure, I would happily help but she has only asked me a couple times for a severe jam with her parents unavailable, like if the reason was because her parents were in the hospital. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I’ve been thinking about this.  I, personally, would leave a mature 14 year old with family nearby.  But I also think this is a very personal decision.

However.  I live in famous fall foliage area.  It’s off season, and Air BnBs are cheap.  I suspect you could get a whole house for a few days inexpensively, and bring DS.  You’d be able to leave him during the day and go check out the microbreweries and live music and pretty leaves, and an air B and B in a small town is likely to have lots to do within walking distance. My town there’s restaurants, an escape room, state park, a skate park and other things within walking and biking distance. And he’d probably have TV and WiFi for internet use(like gaming systems).

If you decided to head up my way, I’d even check on him for you. 🙂  But I suspect any small touristy town is going to be the same.      I don’t know if it’s a good idea, but I thought a whole house air b n b might solve both problems.

Maybe. Looking at Lake George for that week, though, was not cheap. Like, I was trying to get something ~$100/night and all I’m seeing on VRBO and airbnb are little cabins, apartments or rooms. Nothing that I even consider on par with places we have rented before, such as for skiing in VT. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah, I think the law is on your side as long as you and your son are comfortable.

Where it would get dicey would be if your kid called 911 because there was a centipede in the bathroom and you weren't there to kill it.  😛  I may or may not have a kid who would scream up the neighborhood in that kind of situation, LOL.

Another thing - hide a spare key outside.  You don't want your neighbors calling the cops because your kid is trying to climb in the window.  😛

Hell, around here, you might get shot because someone saw you trying to climb through a window. 

[moonflower]

28 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I got lost in the double negatives.

  I think knowing what the kid would be doing would be very important in such a case.  I think the ability of Quill to be relaxed and enjoy a special anniversary could depend on what the child would be doing in her absence.  Also perhaps on ability of family members to transport the child to events and respond to any problems.

A lot of people responding that it’s not a problem have either several children so it would not be just one child alone, or they live in a place where the child would have easy access to other people—an urban or town environment with stores and activities in walking or public transit distance.

 

The situation for the child in this thread seems like it would be much more isolated.  No cafe, market, fun classes, friends seem to be an easy and safe walk /public transportation/ bike ride to get to. 

That’s a whole different situation than many people live in.

 

(And also, your example of leaving your kids for a few hours while you go shopping is totally different than a single child alone for 4 days and intervening nights.  Some adults might even feel a little off all alone with no vehicle or other useful transportation for 4 days.  It’s a long time even for an only dog who is well behaved and has water food and shelter to spend alone) 

 

 I guess what I'm saying is, as long as the teenager isn't going to do something illegal or dangerous, I wouldn't worry about watching tv and surfing the internet and eating nothing but cookies for 4 days.

[EmseB]

7 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I found some legal advice on google saying that leaving 16 or 17 year old alone for one or two nights could be permissible if the child was mature enough.  

I don't understand this. Due to my parent's job situation and them having to move before I left for boot camp and before their house sold I was living alone, using my bike and public transportation, working fast food, hanging out with friends...at 17. My parents were 2.5 hrs away.  I was joining the military and legally it was dicey for me to live alone at 17 for more than two nights?

It disturbs me that people think teens, on average, can't handle a few days of amusing themselves or being able to survive with all modern conveniences in their own home. I get that it's more complicated with individual kids and circumstances, but my inclination is that the average 14yo should be more than capable of handling that sort of arrangement. 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, moonflower said:

 

 I guess what I'm saying is, as long as the teenager isn't going to do something illegal or dangerous, I wouldn't worry about watching tv and surfing the internet and eating nothing but cookies for 4 days.

 

Well, I know that’s what I’d be doing! 😁

Ok, maybe I’d add in some Doritos for variety...

[LMD]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Well, I know that’s what I’d be doing! 😁

Ok, maybe I’d add in some Doritos for variety...

You'd be doing something illegal and dangerous, with Doritos for variety?! 😉😄

[Catwoman]

Just now, LMD said:

You'd be doing something illegal and dangerous, with Doritos for variety?! 😉😄

 

At my age, cookies and Doritos are about as illegal and dangerous as it gets for me, but I can dream, right? 😀

[SKL]

It is OK if the kid has to do some problem-solving alone.  This is how we learn about life.  Who doesn't have exciting memories of being in that situation as a teen?

[hippiemamato3]

13 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I don't understand this. Due to my parent's job situation and them having to move before I left for boot camp and before their house sold I was living alone, using my bike and public transportation, working fast food, hanging out with friends...at 17. My parents were 2.5 hrs away.  I was joining the military and legally it was dicey for me to live alone at 17 for more than two nights?

It disturbs me that people think teens, on average, can't handle a few days of amusing themselves or being able to survive with all modern conveniences in their own home. I get that it's more complicated with individual kids and circumstances, but my inclination is that the average 14yo should be more than capable of handling that sort of arrangement. 

I really think there is a huge difference between 14 and 17.

[Pen]

25 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I don't understand this. Due to my parent's job situation and them having to move before I left for boot camp and before their house sold I was living alone, using my bike and public transportation, working fast food, hanging out with friends...at 17. My parents were 2.5 hrs away.  I was joining the military and legally it was dicey for me to live alone at 17 for more than two nights?

It disturbs me that people think teens, on average, can't handle a few days of amusing themselves or being able to survive with all modern conveniences in their own home. I get that it's more complicated with individual kids and circumstances, but my inclination is that the average 14yo should be more than capable of handling that sort of arrangement. 

 

It was already established that the Ds in question isn’t located in a place where he can bike to friends, a job etc.    So I don’t see how your 17yo circumstances relate.  Neither by circumstances nor age/maturity do they seem to be equivalent  ???

The probability certainly is that the average 14 yo will survive.  But it still might not be a good idea.

 

[AmandaVT]

My parents left me home alone w/ a friend to sleep over at 17. Somehow word got out that the house was parent free for the weekend and half of the senior class showed up with booze. It was very stressful for me to figure out how to manage that situation and get the house clean before my parents returned home. 

Also, days are one thing, but 2 am feels much different when I'm alone in the house, even as an adult. I am prone to anxiety, but to this day, I'll still triple check that the stove is off and the doors are locked when DH is away for an overnight and I never sleep as well.

[Pen]

42 minutes ago, moonflower said:

 

 I guess what I'm saying is, as long as the teenager isn't going to do something illegal or dangerous, I wouldn't worry about watching tv and surfing the internet and eating nothing but cookies for 4 days.

 

Have you got a teen boy?

things can quite quickly go from surfing internet to sexting or to going joy riding

or from eating cookies to drinking up any alcohol present in home 

even the NT ones often don’t have very good executive functioning at 14

It can be hard to know what they’ll do with a long period of unstructured time, and maybe some loneliness or anxiety besides. 

[Pen]

@Quill could you get two rooms wherever you’re going and let you son bring a friend?  They could perhaps stay in hotel room and get pizza delivery or something like that while you and dh go out for romantic dinners and adult time.  And they could explore kid friendly things while you and dh go to microbreweries.   

[EmseB]

18 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

It was already established that the Ds in question isn’t located in a place where he can bike to friends, a job etc.    So I don’t see how your 17yo circumstances relate.  Neither by circumstances nor age/maturity do they seem to 

 

I was responding to the PP talking about 16 and 17yos.

[Pen]

1 minute ago, EmseB said:

I was responding to the PP talking about 16 and 17yos.

 

Oh . 

 

[mlktwins]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Yeah, there is certainly plenty enough to do where I live; I could do all sorts of wonderful things within a thirty-minute drive, I’m so centrally located and spoiled for choice. 

I intended to go to Lake George. Mostly because I have never been there and I wanted to go somewhere I have never been. And that should be just about peak foliage farther north of here. So that was the big attraction. 

But yeah. I mean, I live in the woods and there are craft breweries and vineyards galore, so it’s not as though I can’t have those experiences right here. 

What about somewhere along Skyline Drive?  https://mimslyninn.com/

Or Middleburg, VA? https://www.salamanderresort.com/ (Expensive, but maybe worth it for 2 nights).  Get a wonderful massage while there.

These are 2 places I'd like to try, but only for 1 or 2 nights.

Or...Leesburg, VA https://www.lansdowneresort.com/

Maybe not as long a drive as to Lake George?

A little splurge closer to home?  Pamper yourself as they all have spas?

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by mlktwins

[EmseB]

17 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

At 17, not only would I have allowed my kid to stay overnight alone, but she would have been allowed to stay overnight with responsibility for a young sibling.  

 

My kid at 14 and my kid at 17 were very different people.  

Right. I quoted the PP, but since I'm now seeing this comment for a 3rd time, I'm sorry I wasn't more clear that I was specifically responding to the idea that 16 and 17yos would only be able to stay one or two nights alone.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with my kids not having a gradual step up to the kind of responsibility I expect them to be able to handle at 17, which would be more than one or two nights on their own. I would expect a 14yo spending a night or two or three alone to be a "maybe" in the OP's question in part because in three short years, they might actually be leaving home to live without my oversight at all.

I wouldn't, for an average 14yo, say a blanket no to them being home alone for a long weekend.

 

[73349]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I found some legal advice on google saying that leaving 16 or 17 year old alone for one or two nights could be permissible if the child was mature enough.  

"Could be permissible"?  😦 I was 17 when I went away to college. You can join the army (with a parent's consent) at 17. You can get married (with a parent's consent) in over 30 US states at 17.

Being alone in your own house overnight is... just like being in the house with other people, except quieter.

Edited September 9, 2019 by whitehawk

[EmseB]

17 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Have you got a teen boy?

things can quite quickly go from surfing internet to sexting or to going joy riding

or from eating cookies to drinking up any alcohol present in home 

even the NT ones often don’t have very good executive functioning at 14

It can be hard to know what they’ll do with a long period of unstructured time, and maybe some loneliness or anxiety besides. 

Wouldn't any of this be a concern with leaving them home alone for more than a couple of hours? I mean, if these things are a concern, they're a concern for a day trip as much as an overnight. 

A 13yo relative of mine went joy riding in his parents car in the middle of the night when they were *home*. He got caught at school with herbal substances. He certainly didn't earn himself more privileges, but the issue of misbehavior had nothing to do with being alone.

[EmseB]

22 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ah....found the post you were responding to.

 

17 yr olds can certainly handle entertaining themselves for a few hours or even a few days.  

Of course......that's when I got pregnant so.....................yeah, there are lots of things to think about even with 16 and 17 yr olds😃

Right, but unless you're supervising the kid 24/7, I would think that would be a possibility regardless of mom and dad having a weekend away.

[Farrar]

49 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Have you got a teen boy?

things can quite quickly go from surfing internet to sexting or to going joy riding

or from eating cookies to drinking up any alcohol present in home 

even the NT ones often don’t have very good executive functioning at 14

It can be hard to know what they’ll do with a long period of unstructured time, and maybe some loneliness or anxiety besides. 

Yes. Mine are almost exactly the same age as Quill's. My ds's idea of a wild day is getting a friend and using his free subway card to visit all the best places on an internet list to eat french fries in the city. Or speed running a video game for five hours straight. Or starting to sort his Magic cards and then leaving them all over the dining room table. Or starting to make a cosplay outfit and leaving all the bits all over everywhere.

Could their teenage brains have led them to do something dumb? I mean, yes, absolutely. But probably in terms of a cooking project that ruined my kitchen or buying a horror movie on Amazon that they then regretted later or losing the keys. But that last one had backups in the neighborhood.

I know my boys. I won't rule out the idea that they wouldn't sneak p*rn, but they could anyway. And I know how they feel about alcohol, drugs, and sexting and the first two make them nervous and the latter is horrifying to them. And I know their friends. Their idea of a big party is a sleepover with movies and video games and too much junk food and soda.

[Terabith]

58 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

"Could be permissible"?  😦 I was 17 when I went away to college. You can join the army (with a parent's consent) at 17. You can get married (with a parent's consent) in over 30 US states at 17.

Being alone in your own house overnight is... just like being in the house with other people, except quieter.

I'm not saying I agree with this.  I don't.  I'm saying that that is the official, legal recommendation from the website of CPSes in several different states that I picked at randomly.  

It probably doesn't come to that.  But if the house catches on fire, it can quickly become relevant.

[EmseB]

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm not saying I agree with this.  I don't.  I'm saying that that is the official, legal recommendation from the website of CPSes in several different states that I picked at randomly.  

It probably doesn't come to that.  But if the house catches on fire, it can quickly become relevant.

So my question is (understanding you don't agree with the policy) what happens if the house catches on fire during the day when mom and dad left for a matinee or to go to the grocery store? A lot of the fears people are talking about seem very arbitrarily based on nighttime or how long parents are gone, when a lot of the same exact problems could occur in four hours in broad daylight. There is some distinction I'm not seeing, both in terms of the legalities that you're talking about with CPS and the fears of other posters.

Admittedly, I am much more afraid of doing something that would get me in terrible with nosy neighbors and CPS than I actually fear for my kids' safety when I consider giving them more independence.

[Katy]

Absolutely have him stay with SIL.  Take the time to get away and reconnect.  Not just because of every stressful thing that's happened in the last year, but because election season is coming and you should reconnect before that.

And no way I would let a 14 year old stay alone past about 4am on a single day.  He'll slip up and mention it to someone at school and before you can say security camera you'll have 200 kids drinking at your house.  Or worse, burning down the house.  I'd be nervous with a college freshman.

[Terabith]

Just now, EmseB said:

So my question is (understanding you don't agree with the policy) what happens if the house catches on fire during the day when mom and dad left for a matinee or to go to the grocery store? A lot of the fears people are talking about seem very arbitrarily based on nighttime or how long parents are gone, when a lot of the same exact problems could occur in four hours in broad daylight. There is some distinction I'm not seeing, both in terms of the legalities that you're talking about with CPS and the fears of other posters.

Admittedly, I am much more afraid of doing something that would get me in terrible with nosy neighbors and CPS than I actually fear for my kids' safety when I consider giving them more independence.

If the house catches on fire during the day (or night, presumably), the child evacuates the house and calls 911, the same as any responsible child would.  The only difference is during the day, if a 14 year old is left home alone and the house catches on fire, CPS goes, "Oh, what an unfortunate tragedy," and everyone rebuilds and moves on with their lives.  If it is at night, CPS/ our litigious society says, "What irresponsible parents!  Leaving their child home alone overnight!  We must charge them/ scold them/ remove them from custody (what particular consequences are invoked, frankly, depend probably upon the color of your skin)."  The actual danger isn't really different when mom is gone for three hours during the day versus 48 hours over the weekend.  It's how it plays on CNN.  

Frankly, most of my child rearing decisions are based not on what I think is best for my children but what CPS would say.  Which sucks.  

I do think that my kids, who are 14 and 15, would be uncomfortable being left for four days.  I asked my kids and they both said they'd be uncomfortable but would feel shy about saying that because they would want to be okay with it.  I would personally not be happy trapped in the house for 4 days.  So in this particular case, I think it would be better not to leave the kid home alone for multiple days.  But for say, one night, I think would probably be fine (if the kid was okay with it), but I probably would not do it, simply because of the repercussions if something did go wrong.  

[Pen]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Wouldn't any of this be a concern with leaving them home alone for more than a couple of hours? I mean, if these things are a concern, they're a concern for a day trip as much as an overnight. 

A 13yo relative of mine went joy riding in his parents car in the middle of the night when they were *home*. He got caught at school with herbal substances. He certainly didn't earn himself more privileges, but the issue of misbehavior had nothing to do with being alone.

 

It could be a problem even for a short time.  But I presume that if a short time alone were a problem like that, then OP would not even be wondering if 4 days would be okay. 

IME some kids  who might not be apt to get into a problem situation during a short time alone might become more likely to do so when there’s a longer time—both from internal stress and from external pressures.  

Some people won’t have any difficulties, emotional, behavioral or physical whether alone for an hour or a month.  Some people will have a point of difficulty at more than an hour and less than a month .  Exactly what difficulty depending on the child and circumstances.

[Pen]

Guidelines on findlaw.com  Not dispositive by any means, and it advises taking into account the circumstances.  Certainly a lot of people will let kids be alone more time or younger than these guidelines.

• 8 to 10 Years - Should not be left alone for more than 1½ hours and only during daylight and early evening hours.
• 11 to 12 Years - May be left alone for up to 3 hours but not late at night or in circumstances requiring inappropriate responsibility.
• 13 to 15 Years - May be left unsupervised, but not overnight.

 

 

[EmseB]

Just now, Pen said:

 

It could be a problem even for a short time.  But I presume that if a short time alone were a problem like that, then OP would not even be wondering if 4 days would be okay. 

IME some kids  who might not be apt to get into a problem situation during a short time alone might become more likely to do so when there’s a longer time—both from internal stress and from external pressures.  

Some people won’t have any difficulties, emotional, behavioral or physical whether alone for an hour or a month.  Some people will have a point of difficulty at more than an hour and less than a month .  Exactly what difficulty depending on the child and circumstances.

I agree with all of this. I guess that's why I'm befuddled by the posters saying, "no, never would I ever."

And, if I'm honest, especially confused about the posters who feel bad for a kid left alone for the weekend instead of getting to go on his parent's 25th anniversary trip of a long drive, foliage, and romance, lol. At any point after about 8th grade, a long weekend in my house with no one else where I get to watch as much tv, play as many video games, eat as much junk, read as many books, sleep in as long as I want...that was like my dream life.

But also, I thought the massive unintended out of hand party because parents were gone was like a trope from the movies. I went to a fairly large high school in a college town, and I never felt like things like that happened unless the resident kid wanted them to happen. I had a friend who lived alone during the week because of her parent's commute and it just wasn't a thing for roving bands of high schoolers to show up and party because we all knew her parents were gone??? Even the trouble maker kids wouldn't do that.

[RootAnn]

Lol. The kid we left at home at just-turned-15 (I think!) is now at college at 17.

The story of the 12 yr old on the farm reminded me of when my mom went to Europe for 2-3 weeks. My dad worked out of town & wasn't hone during any of that time. I had 3 siblings older than me and one younger. We had multiple paper routes and my mom was in charge of several other kids who had routes (like a manager). I was the one who was put in charge of the paper routes, laundry, meals, ensuring people got to their appointments (although I was not doing the driving), and clean up. I was 12.

I'm sorry you are thinking of not going, Quill.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Yes. Mine are almost exactly the same age as Quill's. My ds's idea of a wild day is getting a friend and using his free subway card to visit all the best places on an internet list to eat french fries in the city. Or speed running a video game for five hours straight. Or starting to sort his Magic cards and then leaving them all over the dining room table. Or starting to make a cosplay outfit and leaving all the bits all over everywhere.

Could their teenage brains have led them to do something dumb? I mean, yes, absolutely. But probably in terms of a cooking project that ruined my kitchen or buying a horror movie on Amazon that they then regretted later or losing the keys. But that last one had backups in the neighborhood.

I know my boys. I won't rule out the idea that they wouldn't sneak p*rn, but they could anyway. And I know how they feel about alcohol, drugs, and sexting and the first two make them nervous and the latter is horrifying to them. And I know their friends. Their idea of a big party is a sleepover with movies and video games and too much junk food and soda.

 

But again, you are in extremely different circumstances.  You have kids who can get about on their own.

It isn’t isolated.  

 

I don’t even think your situation is one child all alone.  

Whether that’s from siblings or easy access to known friends.  

 

And it probably isn’t a new school and new friends situation .

 

I guess at least back up keys is something @Quill could figure out for her Ds if he’s alone for 4 days.  The rest you describe mostly sounds like it isn’t possible given the isolation of their home. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Pen

[Farrar]

Just now, Pen said:

 

But again, you are in extremely different circumstances.  You have kids who can get about on their own.

It isn’t isolated.  

 

I don’t even think your situation is one child all alone.  

Whether that’s from siblings or easy access to known friends.  

 

And it probably isn’t a new school and new friends situation .

 

 

Yeah, all of those are reasons why, in Quill's case, I would hesitate. But just in a general sense, I don't think 14 yo boys are necessarily untrustworthy for all those reasons. It sort of bugs me when people are like, you don't know your kids, they probably would do those things. I don't buy it. I'm sure they can surprise me and I'm sure they can screw up... but it's going to be within a certain context.

[EmseB]

4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 

People react really weird when emergencies happen.  And I expect a 14 yr old to react most bizarrely of all.  

 

I agree with this. I guess don't understand what it means as far as letting kids stay home alone for a given length of time/time of day? It's never safe because an emergency could happen at any time and a kid (or adult?) might not react as I've taught them or in the best way? A 14 or 15yo shouldn't be home alone because of the possibility of fire? I'm sorry if I sound obtuse, I honestly don't get what your point is wrt your anecdotes.

[Farrar]

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

In a very general sense, I don't disagree.

At the same time, I tend to feel like 14 is just no the age that I am willing to let them make those sorts of screw ups.  My oldest probably would have been completely fine being overnight alone at 14.  At 14, I was totally leaving her with a newborn baby for a couple of hours like once or twice a week, so she totally had that level of responsibility in her.   But I still wouldn't left her over night, even without a sibling.

 

Maybe that's just a comfort thing, I dunno.  For me, it's the overnight thing.....the extended hours that would bother me most.  The isolation described by the OP just add more issues.  There are a few things that can happen in a few hours.  The longer the period, the more likely the issues are to occur.  

I get that.

I have a matching set, so that always makes things like this a little easier. But my ideal was to leave them alone for one night around age 15. Instead, we ended up with this funeral - two days at age 14. We have good family friends who absolutely would have watched them, but they preferred this and we decided it was okay. And it was.

I think that people who can't stand to leave their 14 yos for a few hours alone need to be disagreed with. I mean, you do you, but if you ask, I'm not going to approve unless there are extenuating circumstances on that. I think people who are uncomfortable leaving their 14 yos overnight are fine. Wait a couple of years. It's not for everyone.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Farrar

[Pen]

24 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Yeah, all of those are reasons why, in Quill's case, I would hesitate. But just in a general sense, I don't think 14 yo boys are necessarily untrustworthy for all those reasons. It sort of bugs me when people are like, you don't know your kids, they probably would do those things. I don't buy it. I'm sure they can surprise me and I'm sure they can screw up... but it's going to be within a certain context.

 

Well, most 14 yo boys are reasonably trustworthy, sure.

 But they don’t tend to have well developed judgement and the more there’s no one nearby to call on the more a problem that comes up can tend to accelerate.  

I mean, I guess it’s similar to thinking of teen boy drivers .  Most of them probably are great drivers  with sharp eyes and quick reflexes, and would never speed or take a turn too fast, much less lean over to adjust the radio or take eyes off road to text someone.  (That’s always someone else’s kid who would do something like that, right?)  and their lack of experience usually won’t cause any problems, or even if so, it will be a fun story to tell.

But still, statistics are that teen boy drivers  are more apt to be involved in fatal crashes per mile driven than a 34 yo woman is. KWIM ? 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Pen

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Well, most 14 yo boys are reasonably trustworthy, sure.

 But they don’t tend to have well developed judgement and the more there’s no one nearby to call on the more a problem that comes up can tend to accelerate.  

I mean, I guess it’s similar to thinking of teen boy drivers .  Most of them probably are great drivers  with sharp eyes and quick reflexes, and would never speed or take a turn too fast, much less lean over to adjust the radio or take eyes off road to text someone.  (That’s always someone else’s kid who would do something like that, right?)  and their lack of experience usually won’t cause any problems, or even if so, it will be a fun story to tell.

But still, statistics are that teen boy drivers  are more apt to be involved in fatal crashes per mile driven than a 34 yo woman is. KWIM ? 

 

But decisions in cars have to be made really quickly. It's a giant piece of killer machinery. Decisions to do with should I do this or that over a weekend alone are going to have more time to them most of the time. When you drive, you have a split second to decide. Yes, those split second situations could arise home alone... but they could at any time, such as a fire, like someone else said. But that's going to be rare. In a car, you face those decisions every time you drive. The chances are just so radically different.

 

[Guest]

DD says that she would be fine, and honestly, she probably would be, but she wouldn't be able to get to campus for classes or much of anywhere, because there isn't that much in a reasonable distance from our house, and public transit doesn't pick up until you get a couple of miles away. We have several slightly older girls who are college students or working who were in the homeschool group with DD, so I'd probably try to get one of them to come and stay with her, so she wouldn't be stuck at home, and could hopefully make it to campus. 

[catz]

I assume people know their kids.  I have straight laced kids and I don't suspect they'd do anything super horrible.  My daughter has made a few questionable decisions online but that is pretty easy to keep in check when we're in and out all the time.  At age 14, I'm not sure how sleep and general food consumption would go. My kids at that age, where if sleep got off or reasonable nutrition got off, they might be a mess for days afterwards.   I was never shy about leaving my kids and we left kids with grandparents for weekends.  But there was always some sort of payback afterwards.  And I felt like that payback just changed as they aged.  

So that said, the longer you're gone, the higher the tiny of chance of problems.  I remember waking up in the middle of the night a little panicky because I was home alone as a teen in the middle of the night.  You just can't be sure how someone with less life experience is going to react in a true emergency.  If my house did catch fire while my kids were home, I'd much rather be within 30 minutes of home and out for a few hours able to return at any time than hours away with a weekend planned out of town.  

This reminds me of a story with my son.  My son went to his friend's house last winter.  He is 18, friend is 17.  He gets there and his friend is frying something on the stove.  No one else is home.  Oil gets hot and starts smoking.  My son is not much of a cook, so he is suspect but not comfortable telling friend what to do in his own house.  Oil lights on fire.  Instead of turning off gas and grabbing the fire extinguisher that was in the kitchen, he grabs the cast iron pan.  Runs outside in the snow and drops it.  Spilling oil and getting 2nd degree burns on his hand.  My son had to call the fire department, parent came home and took him to the ER immediately.  Obviously, this could have happened when parents are home.   But as a parent you are liable and responsible for what minor children are doing.   These were 2  geeky smart straight laced teens and sometimes weird things happen and level headed problem solving skills aren't always best in an emergency.   Those teen brains take a long time to fully bake.  My kid was really shaken and felt awful and responsible.  Thankfully his friend is fine, but he was following up with a specialist for several months afterwards.

 And yes the 18 year old is at college now this fall.   Launching to college is actually a pretty controlled environment when you live in a dorm with 1000 people, an RA every 30 people and have a meal plan and a full class schedule.   And yes, I'd be fine with the 18 year old home alone for a long weekend.   I do think if authorities got involved for some reason and there are 14 vs 18 year olds involved, there may be different outcome for the parents.  

And I'd personally be fine with the 14-15 year old kid staying mostly alone the long weekend with someone to come in for dinner, maybe quick breakfasts and overnights with regular check ins and possible running them where they needed to be.  Honestly, I'd be working hard to make this trip work in some way.  Sounds awesome!

Edited September 10, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[catz]

28 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

As a bit of a side note to this whole discussion.....

 

I have a nephew who is 13, turns 14 in April 2020.  Recently he broke his arm at a school function.  (he was jumping off bleachers because he thinks he's some parkour master lol.....this is the second time he broke this arm doing this stuff lol)  Normally, after school, he has a club or activity, but with the busted arm, he cannot participate.  My sister gets home about an hour after my nephew gets off the bus.  Now, my nephew has a key specifically for days when he doesn't have a club or activity and/or my sister can't get out of work in time to pick him up (there's an activity bus for after school activities).

 

But, this past week, my sister and my mom wanted to have my mom home with him after school that hour or two.....because he broke his arm.   Now, don't get me wrong, he had to have surgery, he had pins in his arm, pain meds, etc.  But really, a fully capable kid who is otherwise home for an hour or two every day......needs grandma because he has a cast.  Even as they were explaining it to me they kept saying "now he *can* stay home....."

 

So you think this is overkill?  This kid has already shown poor judgement (twice) and is using pain killers and recovering from surgery.  Maybe even the parents are a bit shaken after having a child go through that.  Honestly, stuff like that always seems harder on the parent than the kid.  I hardly think it's going to stunt an adventurous kid to have grandma hanging out for a few weeks after school spoiling him getting him snacks and fluffing his pillows.  It can be exhausting to be out and about all day with a cast while recovering.  Maybe it will be a nice bonding experience.  Grandparents aren't around forever.  I would assume mom knows best for her own kid.  

[Pen]

48 minutes ago, Farrar said:

But decisions in cars have to be made really quickly. It's a giant piece of killer machinery. Decisions to do with should I do this or that over a weekend alone are going to have more time to them most of the time. When you drive, you have a split second to decide. Yes, those split second situations could arise home alone... but they could at any time, such as a fire, like someone else said. But that's going to be rare. In a car, you face those decisions every time you drive. The chances are just so radically different.

 

 

That’s true. The frequency of life and death decisions is greater with many driving situations as compared to many home situations. But the child brain is similarly still lacking in EF frequently. 

how much less apt to have critical situation in a home environment may depend again on circumstances.  

We have had a stove element break with a little explosion and very little fire inside the oven a few weeks ago, a circuit breaker box start smoking some time back (to his credit, Ds probably lat around age 14 is who saw the smoke and initially reacted promptly and well with good head on shoulders in that situation ), and some storm situations with lightning strikes or trees coming down which were significant calls for action and good judgment.

(eta: right now heater has gone on for first time this “fall” and is making suspicious smells.) 

Also some plumbing problems of much less critical nature. 

 

In reality, probably most little kids left alone in vehicles probably do fine. It was certainly a common thing to leave kids in car while parent went into store or whatever in my own childhood.   And many a 3 or 4 yo probably has the wherewithal to just open the door and get out if it’s hot rather than to stay inside the overheating car. But not all do.  And there are certainly some tragedies from leaving little children alone in cars. 

So similarly probably Quill’s Ds would be just fine at home alone for 4 days. Probably nothing that he couldn’t deal with would happen.  Probably.

 But in the circumstances described?  I would not do that.

I’d have him visit friends or relatives at least for the nights part, or have a sitter, ... or something.  

Maybe put off the romantic get away till a time when there’s someone more readily available for the 14yo to be with.  Or go to someplace arranged for families with stuff for teens...

Edited September 10, 2019 by Pen

[Jaybee]

You've probably already heard more opinions on this than you want, lol. But I guess I'll throw in my 2-cents worth (I used hyphens!) as well. Most of my kids have been pretty responsible by that age, but I wouldn't have left them overnight, especially not for several nights. They would have gotten creeped out and even the introverts would have gotten lonely. I'm an introvert, and love time alone, but I get lonely after a day or so. Unless I am the one traveling, lol.

But I'd sure love to see you get to go on this trip. You've had a rough year, and to celebrate both your recovery and your anniversary, and to have some time for just you and your dh, I think you should go and just not worry about sil and how they handle things, or whether they are a little inconvenienced or not. (And this is from one who has always had trouble leaving her kids with anybody. 😛 ) But really, they are family and they can survive a little finagling with the schedule. Ds might enjoy having some good cousin time, and if he doesn't, he'll appreciate you more when you get back home! So I vote that you go and enjoy the time relaxing with your dh, and let your son stay with the relatives.

ETA: And since he is 14 and a nice kid, I'm sure, it is not like you are asking them to keep your three wild toddlers, ages 4 and under. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Jaybee

[EmseB]

54 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

In my case....my mom was awake, and close by.  She wasn't in a hotel room, asleep, several hours away.  In addition, my neighbors were close by.....he had the fire out before the fire department got there.  If our home had been as isolated as the OP's home is described as....It would have been several minutes or more before I found someone to help.  And then, once the fire department got there and put the fire out......they have to get a hold of my parents and wait for them to drive back down a few hours before I have someplace to sleep for the night.   And all of that is assuming that the fire department gets there fairly quickly.  I can't imagine what would have happened to my house if I had needed to hike through the woods to get to a phone/help, and then had to wait for a volunteer department to get to an area that is more isolated than where these fires occured.  

In our situation, the concept of "it takes a village" really prevented a major damaging fire.  I can't imagine what would have happened, over night, without access to that whole "village."

I guess I was assuming Quill's ds would have a phone and the SIL 7 min down the road? Maybe I misread what the situation was actually going to be. But I also know that in Maryland it's possible to not be near neighbors, but not isolated and rural or really more than 10 minutes from services. There are a lot of house back in the woods on roads that aren't walkable but still basically suburban for the purposes of police/fire/shops etc.

What's funny is that in MD, the minimum age to be home alone is 8, and for me I feel like 8 is way lower than my own comfort level. 10 was when I started taking short trips without my oldest.

I guess my reactions overall to this thread are related to the poll choices themselves. The idea that it would be beyond the pale unthinkable for a 14yo to spend a few days alone in a home with food, water, and entertainment is concerning to me on a societal level, somewhat. Speaking of the village in the context of this thread, I'd rather not be turned in to CPS by said village for judging my own kid's maturity level at 14 to spend the night alone, especially in this era of unprecedented ability to communicate if necessary in an emergency. I mean, as far as it goes, kids are more connected than ever before and yet can't be trusted to call the fire department because brain science says they have some maturing left to do? I'm willing to concede some kids wouldn't be able to handle themselves, but hopefully not the majority? I don't know how the human race would have made it this far if that's the case, lol.

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

You've probably already heard more opinions on this than you want, lol. But I guess I'll throw in my 2-cents worth (I used hyphens!) as well. Most of my kids have been pretty responsible by that age, but I wouldn't have left them overnight, especially not for several nights. They would have gotten creeped out and even the introverts would have gotten lonely. I'm an introvert, and love time alone, but I get lonely after a day or so. Unless I am the one traveling, lol.

But I'd sure love to see you get to go on this trip. You've had a rough year, and to celebrate both your recovery and your anniversary, and to have some time for just you and your dh, I think you should go and just not worry about sil and how they handle things, or whether they are a little inconvenienced or not. (And this is from one who has always had trouble leaving her kids with anybody. 😛 ) But really, they are family and they can survive a little finagling with the schedule. Ds might enjoy having some good cousin time, and if he doesn't, he'll appreciate you more when you get back home! So I vote that you go and enjoy the time relaxing with your dh, and let your son stay with the relatives.

 

ITA.   SIL seems like probably best option even if cousin has some unusual plans that weekend.

 

[Junie]

I did not stay home alone overnight until I was about 20.  I didn't sleep much.  I heard every little noise and wondered if someone was breaking into the house.

It probably didn't help that I was working on a literature paper on "The Fall of the House of Usher."

I vote that he should stay with relatives and that he shouldn't read Poe.

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I guess my reactions overall to this thread are related to the poll choices themselves. The idea that it would be beyond the pale unthinkable for a 14yo to spend a few days alone in a home with food, water, and entertainment is concerning to me on a societal level, somewhat. Speaking of the village in the context of this thread, I'd rather not be turned in to CPS by said village for judging my own kid's maturity level at 14 to spend the night alone, especially in this era of unprecedented ability to communicate if necessary in an emergency. I mean, as far as it goes, kids are more connected than ever before and yet can't be trusted to call the fire department because brain science says they have some maturing left to do? I'm willing to concede some kids wouldn't be able to handle themselves, but hopefully not the majority? I don't know how the human race would have made it this far if that's the case, lol.

Yeah, I wouldn't do it.  But I don't think it's beyond the pale or that it's terrible to consider the thought or even that someone who does it is a bad parent.  It's just a generally unnecessary risk.  And I don't think that the risk is on the side of something terrible is going to happen to the teen.  I think the risk is mostly on the side of perception.  

ETA:  I definitely hope Quill is able to make this trip, though!  

Edited September 10, 2019 by Terabith

[Pen]

 

13 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I don't know how the human race would have made it this far if that's the case, lol.

 

LOL!  Oh from perpetuating the species POV, being home alone at 14–or especially if there’s a 14 yo girl available to visit it might help with procreation and species perpetuation! 

[catz]

I absolutely don't think it's totally crazy either so I actually didn't vote based on the choices.  I'd just want my kids to have shown more experience with moderating with internet, sleep, and preparing decent meals at age 14 than I actually saw.  I'd want to have them doing the experience of maybe 24 hours a few times before going longer than that.  That's my own comfort level.  It wasn't a priority for me to get my kids super independent at that age but other people prioritize that differently.

My parents left my brother and I at 14 and 16 for a week.  I was a licensed driver.  It was generally fine.  But my brother did do some stupid stuff, I did reign him in a bit.  He most definitely would not have been fine to stay alone.  We had school that week so it was helpful to have that structure.  And we did have someone stop in several times with regular check ins on the phone, etc.  Teens can just vary widely in maturity.  I don't have a problem with another parent who might choose differently for their own kids.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

I agree with all of this. I guess that's why I'm befuddled by the posters saying, "no, never would I ever."

And, if I'm honest, especially confused about the posters who feel bad for a kid left alone for the weekend instead of getting to go on his parent's 25th anniversary trip of a long drive, foliage, and romance, lol. At any point after about 8th grade, a long weekend in my house with no one else where I get to watch as much tv, play as many video games, eat as much junk, read as many books, sleep in as long as I want...that was like my dream life.

But also, I thought the massive unintended out of hand party because parents were gone was like a trope from the movies. I went to a fairly large high school in a college town, and I never felt like things like that happened unless the resident kid wanted them to happen. I had a friend who lived alone during the week because of her parent's commute and it just wasn't a thing for roving bands of high schoolers to show up and party because we all knew her parents were gone??? Even the trouble maker kids wouldn't do that.

Same. Beyond that, since I have described a little bit about my location, I find it hard to imagine how a high school freshman who has only been in school for a month in his entire life, would somehow be well-connected with trouble-type kids who can drive to our house in order to have a party. 🤔 Really, on the list of bad things that could possibly go amiss in this instance, I don’t fear that one too highly. 

I think the most probable negative outcome would be that our location makes the empty house pretty dang creepy and it could be in the realm of much scarier than expected once it was actually late at night on our dark, wooded lot. 

[Frances]

15 hours ago, Quill said:

SIL is quite close, only about 7 minutes away by car. I actually feel like driving over to check in is a bigger hassle than if he were just staying there because if he stays there, caring for him just blends in with what their own boys are doing. 

My “neighbors” are not useful; we live secluded back in the woods. Like you, nobody comes to our door for anything but delivery. 

How about he stay home during the two school days and spend the night and weekend with your SIL? That way he gets some independence, but has company in the evenings and for the long weekend. I’m guessing this would actually be more fun for him, as long as he gets along with the other family. And that would translate to a more fun, relaxing vacation for you.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Frances

[ktgrok]

We left DS alone for one night at 15 I think, almost 16. Then for two nights a year later. At 14 I would MAYBE do one night, but not as long as you are planning. That said, i think you should take the trip, and let him hang out with SIL. He's a teen, he'll have a buddy there, he won't take any work or entertaining other than maybe one car trip with BIL to baseball, and it might be nice for your son and his uncle to have that time. 

Go. 

This is a big deal. Seize the day.