Would you leave a 14yo, competent, reasonably well-behaved kid at home alone for a few days/nights?

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I guess I was assuming Quill's ds would have a phone and the SIL 7 min down the road? Maybe I misread what the situation was actually going to be. But I also know that in Maryland it's possible to not be near neighbors, but not isolated and rural or really more than 10 minutes from services. There are a lot of house back in the woods on roads that aren't walkable but still basically suburban for the purposes of police/fire/shops etc.

What's funny is that in MD, the minimum age to be home alone is 8, and for me I feel like 8 is way lower than my own comfort level. 10 was when I started taking short trips without my oldest.

I guess my reactions overall to this thread are related to the poll choices themselves. The idea that it would be beyond the pale unthinkable for a 14yo to spend a few days alone in a home with food, water, and entertainment is concerning to me on a societal level, somewhat. Speaking of the village in the context of this thread, I'd rather not be turned in to CPS by said village for judging my own kid's maturity level at 14 to spend the night alone, especially in this era of unprecedented ability to communicate if necessary in an emergency. I mean, as far as it goes, kids are more connected than ever before and yet can't be trusted to call the fire department because brain science says they have some maturing left to do? I'm willing to concede some kids wouldn't be able to handle themselves, but hopefully not the majority? I don't know how the human race would have made it this far if that's the case, lol.

Yup. All accurate, and possibly hard for some people to understand. We are secluded, but not really rural. We have hospitals and fire departments and sheriffs. 😄 

And yes, ds has a phone and family members and friends not very far away, although not walkable or bikeable. 

When my kids were little, I also thought the 8/13 law was a little confusing. I wasn’t too keen to leave an 8 yo. But then, there was a time period in which oldest was 12 and next kid down was 10, so oldest wasn’t really “babysitting” age, yet they were both above the 8yo cutoff, so I guess each was operating under their own age privilege, even though dd, being two years older, was somewhat “babysitting” her younger brother in reality. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Frances said:

How about he stay home during the two school days and spend the night and weekend with your SIL? Are all of the boys close in age? Do they get along well?

He gets along well with all of his cousins. He is close in age to the one on his bb team; there is a younger son, too, but he’s three years younger. They get along fine, though. 

[Farrar]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yup. All accurate, and possibly hard for some people to understand. We are secluded, but not really rural. We have hospitals and fire departments and sheriffs. 😄 

And yes, ds has a phone and family members and friends not very far away, although not walkable or bikeable. 

When my kids were little, I also thought the 8/13 law was a little confusing. I wasn’t too keen to leave an 8 yo. But then, there was a time period in which oldest was 12 and next kid down was 10, so oldest wasn’t really “babysitting” age, yet they were both above the 8yo cutoff, so I guess each was operating under their own age privilege, even though dd, being two years older, was somewhat “babysitting” her younger brother in reality. 

The interpretation of the Maryland laws were just plain nuts. Once they have handed down the new guidance about them in the wake of like, the bajillionth time MoCo police picked up the Meitiv kids, all the families I know worry WAY less about things like a 12 yo technically babysitting a 10 yo or a 7 yo playing in the yard alone or things like that.

[Guest]

Just for an update, I think if we do this trip, we’re not going to go as far, nor for as long. Maybe just one night away, or maybe two. But not up to Lake George; it’s too expensive and too far and deciding about this is making me crazy. I love the options Medic Mom posted upthread. 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

In reality, probably most little kids left alone in vehicles probably do fine. It was certainly a common thing to leave kids in car while parent went into store or whatever in my own childhood.   And many a 3 or 4 yo probably has the wherewithal to just open the door and get out if it’s hot rather than to stay inside the overheating car. But not all do.  And there are certainly some tragedies from leaving little children alone in cars. 

 

I don't want to derail this thread about adolescents into one about toddlers in cars, so this is the last I'll say anything about cars or toddlers here - there really aren't many tragedies from deliberately leaving little children alone in cars. There are about 50 deaths a year of children who are accidentally left alone in cars. Perhaps one or two of them turn out to be intentional murder - and here's a pro tip, geniuses. If you're gonna kill somebody, don't do the google searches on your murder method on your phone or personal computer! But nearly all of them, as I said, are children who were forgotten instead of left for a quick errand.

It sounds crazy that you could forget your child, even crazier than that you might google "how to kill baby hot car" and then go ahead and do that (murderous dumbass), but they all follow a predictable pattern. Somebody is sick, somebody is overtired, somebody is bringing the kid to daycare/preschool who usually doesn't... and at a crucial moment when they ought to be turning into the daycare driveway, they instead go on autopilot and head off to work instead, forgetting that their child is asleep in the back. Who among us has not meant to go here and ended up there due to careless inattention? Who among us hasn't misplaced our glasses or cell phone or keys? Since infants and toddlers must sit in the back seat for safety, where they aren't so visible to the driver, the best bet is to do something which ensures you will ALWAYS look in the back seat before exiting your car - such as putting your bag in the back seat. For extra protection you can put a toy in the front seat as a visual reminder, or set an alarm on your phone to go off at a certain time asking if you remembered your child.

(On a related note, you should always cross your right hand over you to open the door when exiting the car on the driver's side. This change in habit forces you to check for bicyclists, and is more reliable than just saying to yourself "Okay, check and don't kill somebody with the door!")

[Jean in Newcastle]

The reason why it is a bigger deal at night than during the day or even the evening is because (presumably) at night the teen will be asleep.  I don't know about your teens, but mine do not wake up easily.  In fact, my dh doesn't wake up easily.  I do wake up - I have that mom's habit of waking up with any noise etc. because someone might need me.  Also- it takes awhile after waking for my teens to be coherent and awake enough to make good decisions.  That's why I wouldn't want to leave a teen home alone overnight. 

BTW - When I was left alone all those years ago and the school district threatened to call CPS, it was over 40 years ago - so not some new phenomena.  I was very responsible.  I did a lot of babysitting including some times to 1 or 2 am.  But I never fell asleep before the parents came home. 

[EmseB]

16 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The reason why it is a bigger deal at night than during the day or even the evening is because (presumably) at night the teen will be asleep.  I don't know about your teens, but mine do not wake up easily.  In fact, my dh doesn't wake up easily.  I do wake up - I have that mom's habit of waking up with any noise etc. because someone might need me.  Also- it takes awhile after waking for my teens to be coherent and awake enough to make good decisions.  That's why I wouldn't want to leave a teen home alone overnight. 

Okay, I guess I'm still not certain what this means. You're talking about not  leaving teens alone overnight (ever?) because they sleep deeply? People who sleep deeply can't be alone overnight in their own homes? Can't be responsible for kids overnight? Like yours, my husband sleeps really deeply and has trouble waking...but he's responsible for the kids if I go away. Are you saying you never left your DH alone overnight with the kids because he's a deep sleeper (honest question, not snark)? I thought I lived a sheltered life as a kid because there were so many things I didn't do for myself, but at 14 my parents left for work before I had to get myself up for school. Do kids not do this now? Is it an unrealistic expectation? What age is sleeping alone at home an allowable or safe thing to do?

Look, I'm not arguing that anyone should do something beyond their comfort level, and I'm not even saying I would leave my hypothetical kid in the same circumstances as the OP because I doubt I'll encounter the exact same kid in the exact same circumstances, but I just find the reasons to issue a blanket no for every teen to be...disconcerting in a way. Teens can't be left alone overnight because they sleep too hard? I feel like this thread is blowing my mind as far as how capable I expect my kids to be in a few years, if only based simply on my and DH's life experience. I mean, I had friends who had way more responsibility than I did growing up, and kids I know now are baby-sitting siblings overnight at 15 or 16 years old. And these aren't, IMO, negligent parents or big risk takers, I don't think.

But is the logic that if the worst happens (some unforeseen accident or emergency during the night), it should be obvious that teens shouldn't be left alone overnight and the parents should have known better and they are, in fact, negligent? But the same wouldn't hold true during the day if the exact same accident occurred?

[moonflower]

8 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Have you got a teen boy?

things can quite quickly go from surfing internet to sexting or to going joy riding

or from eating cookies to drinking up any alcohol present in home 

even the NT ones often don’t have very good executive functioning at 14

It can be hard to know what they’ll do with a long period of unstructured time, and maybe some loneliness or anxiety besides. 

 

We don't have alcohol in the home; we don't have cell phones and severely limit internet access re: websites (although I guess a tech-savvy teen could figure out a way around this, but I wouldn't worry about it with my current kids alone at home more than I worry about it when they're at school with friends and their cell phones).  I don't know what the connection is between the internet and joy riding, that seems like more of a friends issue?  I'm not even sure.

[MEmama]

7 hours ago, Quill said:

Just for an update, I think if we do this trip, we’re not going to go as far, nor for as long. Maybe just one night away, or maybe two. But not up to Lake George; it’s too expensive and too far and deciding about this is making me crazy. I love the options Medic Mom posted upthread. 

I’m glad you’re going to make it work, Quill! 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Re: deep sleeping 

I figured the main concern was oversleeping and missing a school bus? Another issue being not being coherent enough right away if the house catches on fire or such. I actually lost a friend in a fire. 

Now if he didn’t have a ride to school arranged he’d have to call who? Mom and Mom calls sis? Or call an aunt? 

I do not know if he normally wakes up to an alarm. My whole family is awful at sleeping through alarms. I am a light sleeper so I usually hear the alarm and then have to tell them to wake up because I’m sick of hearing the alarm. There was an episode of Goldbergs I just watched. A teen son and mom got in a fight so she stepped back from things. He overslept for school lol he said he was used to his mom waking him up. 

My son does set his own alarm and wakes to it. He packs his own lunch and bookbag and makes and eats his own breakfast. He brushes his teeth, showers, fixes his hair and dresses without my input. He fortunately began all these habits for himself over the summer while working for his dad as a plumber’s helper. 

This is a tangent about alarms and is not pertinent to the thread: I am a light sleeper, but part of waking is psychological. Before I had kids, I always woke to my alarm and never, ever slept through it. Even if the alarm failed, there was still a very good likelihood I would wake very close to the alarm time because I was very habituated to it. 

But then when I had little kids and was at home with no outside employment, I stopped hearing the alarm (dh’s alarm to get up for work). I could easily sleep right through it because, I guess, my brain had sorted that sound into the “irrelevant” box. I had another hour of sleep to go before I needed to wake up, so I stopped hearing the alarm, even though I could still wake up from the smallest baby/toddler sounds. 

Now that I again wake to an alarm earlier than dh, I again never sleep through the alarm. (Maybe if I was sick or something but not ordinarily.) My alarm is a very gentle sound on my iPad, which increases in volume progressively, but I often wake when the first three notes chime, barely audible. Or before that, out of habit, like I did this morning. 

I think it’s interesting; I wake to the sounds I “tell” my brain to pay attention to. I think this is probably true for most people, though. 

[mom@shiloh]

It's not that I agree that you're "out of your mind" to consider it -- more like, I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable. Even though I consider my teens to be mature and level-headed, they have surprised me at times with being, uh.... not mature and level-headed. I figure that the years that our kids need us at home are relatively short and my dh and I will have plenty of time when they're grown to do our own thing.

[unsinkable]

9 hours ago, Quill said:

Just for an update, I think if we do this trip, we’re not going to go as far, nor for as long. Maybe just one night away, or maybe two. But not up to Lake George; it’s too expensive and too far and deciding about this is making me crazy. I love the options Medic Mom posted upthread. 

The expense of Lake George is partly geography. Tons of people from downstate & NYC can just drive up the Northway...It is straight shot/easy drive. So the prices reflect that, IMO. 

I didn't follow any of Medic Mom's links but if they are the Finger Lakes, they are usually cheaper than stuff on the Northway corridor.

[Lady Florida.]

I voted maybe because only you truly know your kid. At 14 I could have stayed home for several days on my own and could have handled an emergency if it came up. OTOH, I wouldn't have left either ds or dss home alone for several days at that age.

[Pen]

6 hours ago, moonflower said:

 

We don't have alcohol in the home; we don't have cell phones and severely limit internet access re: websites (although I guess a tech-savvy teen could figure out a way around this, but I wouldn't worry about it with my current kids alone at home more than I worry about it when they're at school with friends and their cell phones).  I don't know what the connection is between the internet and joy riding, that seems like more of a friends issue?  I'm not even sure.

 

Please don’t focus on specifics in trying to understand my post.

Please Focus on teenage brains

 lacking good “brakes” in terms of late development of prefrontal cortex

And then an addition of hormones and other factors that can act like the “gas pedal”

The teenage human can look like an adult, and can cognitively discuss things like an adult, yet does not have adult brain development, particularly with regard to prefrontal cortex, and can make risky decisions .

There is close to adult capacity physically by 14yo male, and for later boy teens possibly the highest physical capacity of their lifetimes to take action, coupled with things like usually high testosterone which revs them toward action.  But that unfinished prefrontal cortex, while it can be a boon to military leaders sending 18 year olds out to wage combat, can be a real problem for risky behaviors 

Luckily the risky behaviors  are usually survivable.

 

And certainly some kids, maybe yours, maybe Quill’s are inherently risk averse so that even in their teen years they would tend to be extremely cautious. 

And maybe there’s a genetic factor too, so maybe if a mom and dad look back at their own childhood teen years and know they never did anything risky, then there might be a particularly good chance that neither will their own kids tend to take any risks.  

[Sherry in OH]

Is one of your older children hosting your youngest for the weekend out of the question?   It could be a fun weekend away for your son and a chance to show off campus life for the older sibling.  Otherwise, ask your SIL to keep him. Give your son enough money to treat his cousins to a movie and dinner.  Invite your nephews to spend the next long weekend at your house.  

My primary concern about leaving a 14-year old alone for a long weekend is not his physical safety.  A typical teen could probably cope in an emergency situtation.  My concern is the isolation.  Humans are social beings.  Three to four days is a long to go without face-to-face interaction with others.  Presumably he would have a cell phone and Internet capability.  IMHO that is not enough.  Even when not interacting with others, he is accustomed to them being nearby.    Would he feel that he was losing face if he called his aunt and asked if he could stay there?  Or would he pretend that everything was okay even if he were desperately lonely?

If one of my almost 14-year old's friend's parents called and said they were going away for the weekend and would I be okay with my son staying with their son, I would offer to host their son instead.  

 

[Pen]

 

4 hours ago, mom@shiloh said:

It's not that I agree that you're "out of your mind" to consider it -- more like, I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable. Even though I consider my teens to be mature and level-headed, they have surprised me at times with being, uh.... not mature and level-headed. I figure that the years that our kids need us at home are relatively short and my dh and I will have plenty of time when they're grown to do our own thing.

 

I also think just a “No” not with the added “you’re out of your mind”.

But I think going away as a couple is also important.  I’d suggest finding a way to have the couple’s romantic getaway, but without the 14yo being alone for 4 days. 

I’d probably try to get the 14yo’s input on being at Uncle Name’s house, or going to visit ____, or having ___ stay nights as a teen sitter, or ...   

If 14yo himself raised idea of staying alone, I might delve into what that might look like... what he’d  do in emergency, or how he’d cope if feeling lonely, or if experiencing night time fears and anxieties.  Things that go creak in the night.  And if I was seriously considering having him stay alone even for just a night or 2 during a romantic getaway, I’d Probably dry run it with a single night away somewhere close and with the focus on teaching 14 yo “stay alone overnight skills,” not trying to focus on a romantic getaway. 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Pen

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

Also - have you discussed this with your son? He might have some creative solutions to offer. Not about whether or not he should be left home alone or not, but about how to fill time each day. He might come up with something you’ll slap your forehead over. 

The trip is important. You should make it happen, even if it is shorter and nearer. 

I will come off as incredibly sexist saying this, but in circumstances similar to yours, dh has called his male counterpart directly and said,  “I’d like to do something special for my wife, can you help me out?” It puts a buffer layer into the communications. 

No. That’s not how I roll. I don’t find it beneficial for my kids to see me as anxious and undecided. 

Your last paragraph: i do think that’s true. But dh doesn’t plan trips, like, ever. If I don’t plan it, it will never happen. Also, remember I said Dad is in camp Sure-What’s-The-Big-Deal. He won’t concern himself with trying to find a place ds can hang out because he doesn’t think it’s necessary anyway. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

I see.

I wasn’t really meaning that you share your anxiousness with ds, just thought perhaps a light conversation could happen. But it sounds like he would uptake the problem.

I know, but that’s what would come out. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Quill, despite some trying to make this into a debate complete with rebuttals and counter-rebuttals, this really is about your particular teen and his comfort level.  I shared my experience because my comfort level during the day and even at night while waiting for people that I knew were coming home soon, was completely different than my comfort level at night when I was supposed to close my eyes and sleep.  Of course your teen's comfort level could be different or he might not even know what it will be until he's in that situation.  (I know that I didn't.)

I also shared my experience with societal school district pressure.  I do think that is something to be aware of but again - different neighborhoods, districts, societal circles can have different expectations and even laws.  Sometimes we go against societal norms despite pressure to do otherwise because the laws still support us doing so.  (Homeschooling anyone?)  You can research your local laws better and if the laws allow it, you know your own comfort level with bucking the trends.

There are individual considerations - I mentioned deep sleepers as one possible one to consider.  Others have mentioned other things related to maturity levels etc.  These things are so dependent on the teen. 

This isn't a black and white issue, which is why you even started the thread to get input.  I hope that  you find a solution where  you and your dh and your teen are all comfortable. 

[fairfarmhand]

I have a 14 yo girl who is really responsible. My concern for her wouldn't necessarily be safety, and we do live rather in an isolated place.

Mostly it would be boredom due to being alone. I'd consider it more with a sibling. I'd worry about what online stuff the kid would be tempted with due to boredom and nobody there to be accountable to. If I had a relative who would pick up for part of  the day and activities where the kid could do stuff and not be left alone for several straight days, I'd feel better about it. The overnight wouldn't bother me as much as the "I'm alone. This is boring. I've looked at the internet for hours. Hmmm...That link looks interesting."

[Pen]

34 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Quill, despite some trying to make this into a debate complete with rebuttals and counter-rebuttals, this really is about your particular teen and his comfort level. 

 

It’s also about Quill and Quill’s comfort level.

Would Quill be happy and relaxed with full enjoyment of the special adult trip? Or a little anxious about Ds alone at home? 

If both Quill and her son would feel relaxed about him being home alone for the 4 days (or now perhaps shorter time) involved, then that’s different than if either of them would have any anxiety about it.

It seems clear that feeling it is definitely fine is the minority 10% or so view here, so it’s not like some anxiety seems unreasonable. 

I’d try to separate a child learning to stay at home alone for increasing lengths of time and responsibility from an unusual anniversary getaway.  

 

[Pen]

Personally, I’d raise it with child without mentioning staying home alone and only consider that if child were eye rolling and saying, “Oh, mom, I’m way too old to need to go to Uncle Bill’s or have a sitter just because you and Dad want a few days away. I can take care of myself.”   

 

 

[catz]

23 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I have a 14 yo girl who is really responsible. My concern for her wouldn't necessarily be safety, and we do live rather in an isolated place.

Mostly it would be boredom due to being alone. I'd consider it more with a sibling. I'd worry about what online stuff the kid would be tempted with due to boredom and nobody there to be accountable to. If I had a relative who would pick up for part of  the day and activities where the kid could do stuff and not be left alone for several straight days, I'd feel better about it. The overnight wouldn't bother me as much as the "I'm alone. This is boring. I've looked at the internet for hours. Hmmm...That link looks interesting."

This is more how I feel about it.  In Farrar's case where there are twins, I would be much more apt to allow 2 to stay together.  I would get twitchy at home for 4 days alone without transportation and with no where to go and nothing to break that up as a 49 year old. 

There's a reason kids are minors until they are 18.  There are a reason many young adults launch somewhere like college or the military where their days are very structured and there are  rules in place.  Like my kid's dorm allow pretty much no appliances in the room that get hot other than a microwave.  No candles, no smoking, no incense.  Kids get kicked out of campus housing with a single offense.  And some do every year when smoke detectors go off and the fire department ends up at the building.  Top causes of death in 15-24 year olds are accidents, suicide, homicide, drug/alcohol overdose.  

I just assume parents know their own kid best.  I'm actually pretty low on the hovering and helicopter parent radar.  So if your 17 year old wouldn't necessarily function well and make good decisions with an unstructured 3 days and no direction, cool, find somewhere for your kid to stay.  Your 14 year old would be fine with a weekend at home alone?  Again, fine by me.  Teens can mature at drastically different rates.  Both kids can still come out as reasonable, responsible adults.  I don't see need for additional judgment on parenting styles and preferences.  

[Annie G]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

No. That’s not how I roll. I don’t find it beneficial for my kids to see me as anxious and undecided. 

Your last paragraph: i do think that’s true. But dh doesn’t plan trips, like, ever. If I don’t plan it, it will never happen. Also, remember I said Dad is in camp Sure-What’s-The-Big-Deal. He won’t concern himself with trying to find a place ds can hang out because he doesn’t think it’s necessary anyway. 

It didn’t occur to me that talking to ds about it would make you look anxious and undecided. When we started considering leaving our kids overnight we asked them how they felt about it, but it was always clear that the decision remained ours. If ds doesn’t feel ready to be home alone for a few days, you’d rather know that now.  

As far as dh not thinking it’s necessary to find ds a place to stay, well, might he do it knowing that it would put you at ease? I mean, surely he does things sometimes simply because he knows it’s helpful to you.  I might have to actually spell it out for dh...ok, I definitely have to spell it out for him. But he’d do it once I helped him realize it’s important to me. 

I hope you can pull this off- though I thought we were talking like three days/two nights. Like if you leave early Friday and are back super late Sunday, there’s only one day that ds doesn’t see you at all.  When we started leaving ours that helped them a lot. I don’t know why, but it did. 

[lmrich]

I watched too many 80's movies where a good teen is left home and the whole town finds out and parties at his/her house. 

I would not trust my kids' friends - and they are good people! 

My kids would have hated to be left alone at 14. 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

No. That’s not how I roll. I don’t find it beneficial for my kids to see me as anxious and undecided. 

 

Could you ask for his input in the abstract —maybe as if it’s about some other person on wtm — what age he thinks would be good for a teen boy to start spending nights alone and how he thinks would be good to work up to doing that safely?

 

 

[EmseB]

6 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Quill, despite some trying to make this into a debate complete with rebuttals and counter-rebuttals

On the WTM chat forum?! The heck you say! Who would possibly do such a thing?!

 

 

😉

(I know my posting style is debate-ish and argumentative...more than I probably intend when I'm actually typing a response. In this case, I am genuinely curious about counterpoints, especially since I have kids coming into this age group very soon and had not even thought of some of the things that have you more veteran parents concerned. Other times, it's midnight and I can't sleep, and I shouldn't post at all, lol. Sorry for derailing your thread, though, Quill!)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

On the WTM chat forum?! The heck you say! Who would possibly do such a thing?!

 

 

😉

(I know my posting style is debate-ish and argumentative...more than I probably intend when I'm actually typing a response. In this case, I am genuinely curious about counterpoints, especially since I have kids coming into this age group very soon and had not even thought of some of the things that have you more veteran parents concerned. Other times, it's midnight and I can't sleep, and I shouldn't post at all, lol. Sorry for derailing your thread, though, Quill!)

No, not a problem at all. Thats what we do here. I mean we can only have so many threads about annoying MILs and SILs, right? 

[caedmyn]

Yes, if they were responsible, trustworthy, and had another adult who could come if needed.  I would not leave MY current almost 14 yo, but she is not responsible and tends to panic easily.  FWIW I stayed alone at my house for most of a summer at age 15, when my family moved to a different city for the summer, and I was fine with it, but a parent I can't imagine doing that! 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

Yes, if they were responsible, trustworthy, and had another adult who could come if needed.  I would not leave MY current almost 14 yo, but she is not responsible and tends to panic easily.  FWIW I stayed alone at my house for most of a summer at age 15, when my family moved to a different city for the summer, and I was fine with it, but a parent I can't imagine doing that! 

My husband has this amazing story about when his family moved from a busy city just outside of Washington DC to the farm where he spent the rest of his youth. He was 11 and his next youngest brother was 9. They rode their bikes from the old house to the new house! It’s like twenty miles away! And these are not backroads, although I grant you, it is more built up now than it was in 1974. His sister rode her horse! (Though she was about 14.) Three young tweens/barely teens, riding bikes and a horse from the old house, twenty-some miles to the new farm. 😱

[Katy]

I mentioned worrying about the house being burned down up thread... DH lived in a tiny midwest farm town growing up.  There was a sweet nerdy kid from the next town who was trusted to stay home alone for a weekend. But the news was mentioned to his friends 3 weeks prior.  DH seems to think letting the news out early was the real problem, because by the time the weekend rolled around kids from the surrounding 3 (small) high schools showed up.  The kid couldn't get the other kids out. The house literally burned down. I had wondered if DH had exaggerated the story a bit (not on purpose, but like a fishing story where the fish grows over the years), but then at his high school reunion there was a discussion about it.  It sounded like he might have downplayed the story a bit. So to me it's not even about how trustworthy and introverted my kid is... it's about if I trust every single person he might mention his weekend plans to.  And that would be a no, especially at a new school.  Maybe if we were in the small town I grew up in and I knew all the cops and asked them to keep an eye on the place.

ETA: DH says I am wrong, it was the barn that burned down.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Katy

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

My husband has this amazing story about when his family moved from a busy city just outside of Washington DC to the farm where he spent the rest of his youth. He was 11 and his next youngest brother was 9. They rode their bikes from the old house to the new house! It’s like twenty miles away! And these are not backroads, although I grant you, it is more built up now than it was in 1974. His sister rode her horse! (Though she was about 14.) Three young tweens/barely teens, riding bikes and a horse from the old house, twenty-some miles to the new farm. 😱

Growing up in the rural Midwest, we often rode bikes as teens 11 miles to the nearby town with a swimming pool, swam all afternoon, and then rode 11 miles home. There was a rec bus that went to open swim three afternoons per week, but it was for all ages. So as teens, we often just rode bikes. My brother and his friends sometimes rode snowmobiles the same distance on the frozen Mississippi to and from high school during the winter instead of taking the bus.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Frances

[Liz CA]

How would you feel if you knew he was by himself? Would you be able to relax or be anxious while trying to enjoy a vacation?

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Liz CA said:

How would you feel if you knew he was by himself? Would you be able to relax or be anxious while trying to enjoy a vacation?

 

Apparently anxious.   

Based on her writing about her dh feeling comfortable with it as being a contrast to Quill’s feelings.

And not wanting to ask Ds how he feels about the possibility for fear it would reveal maternal anxiety.  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Liz CA said:

How would you feel if you knew he was by himself? Would you be able to relax or be anxious while trying to enjoy a vacation?

Pretty anxious. It’s why I posed the question in a poll form; I often can’t tell if my anxieties are abnormal or normal. 

There are a few posts in this thread where the poster marvels at the overall tendency  among Americans to not let teens stretch their legs pretty much at all. I agree with that assessment, and I have striven as a parent to not be like that. I want them to have to figure things out sometimes and have to work through problems - hopefully problems that hit that sweet spot of being not too daunting while still being tricky enough that a little brain action comes into play. But I also frequently don’t know what is normal. My parents were a weird mixture of extreme strictness and neglect. That’s why this site can be so helpful to me. 

So, for example, suppose I left him alone for three nights. Probably, he would be fine. Some of the time he might feel it was rather creepy and I can imagine certain things like, say, the exterior motion detector light keeps turning on and it spooks him out a little bit. But! Even if that happened, it won’t kill him and, most likely, after the three nights have passed and we return home, he is bound to feel rather pleased with himself. (Assuming the motion detector was just picking up the cat or a raccoon and not an escaped ax murderer...) 

[Liz CA]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Pretty anxious. It’s why I posed the question in a poll form; I often can’t tell if my anxieties are abnormal or normal. 

There are a few posts in this thread where the poster marvels at the overall tendency  among Americans to not let teens stretch their legs pretty much at all. I agree with that assessment, and I have striven as a parent to not be like that. I want them to have to figure things out sometimes and have to work through problems - hopefully problems that hit that sweet spot of being not too daunting while still being tricky enough that a little brain action comes into play. But I also frequently don’t know what is normal. My parents were a weird mixture of extreme strictness and neglect. That’s why this site can be so helpful to me. 

So, for example, suppose I left him alone for three nights. Probably, he would be fine. Some of the time he might feel it was rather creepy and I can imagine certain things like, say, the exterior motion detector light keeps turning on and it spooks him out a little bit. But! Even if that happened, it won’t kill him and, most likely, after the three nights have passed and we return home, he is bound to feel rather pleased with himself. (Assuming the motion detector was just picking up the cat or a raccoon and not an escaped ax murderer...) 

 

I totally get this and I also tended toward letting young adults become more independent, however, in this case it may affect how you enjoy (or not) your vacation and that would be a shame.  My thoughts have nothing to do with his capabilities and maturity at all but I would probably look for other situations in which he could grow in independence while I am available if needed and I am not pacing in a hotel room or calling frequently to just assure myself that everything is okay.

[Pen]

https://www.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/404075.pdf

a clear cut matrix

and possibly of particular interest since 17 year olds being allowed in military has been used in this thread to justify 14yo as an age to be alone overnight     It clearly isn’t allowed in military situation.     And 17yo recruits aren’t probably often completely alone in barracks for 3 nights either. 

 

[EmseB]

31 minutes ago, Pen said:

https://www.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/404075.pdf

a clear cut matrix

and possibly of particular interest since 17 year olds being allowed in military has been used in this thread to justify 14yo as an age to be alone overnight     It clearly isn’t allowed in military situation.     And 17yo recruits aren’t probably often completely alone in barracks for 3 nights either. 

 

I swear I'm not trying to be annoying, but since I have direct experience with these rules...

These are rules for civilian dependents of military members in base housing and a lot of what's listed here has to do with liability, not what kids are capable of handling. You might be surprised how many people don't keep their 6-7yos (or younger!) in direct line of sight in a base housing neighborhood while they are playing, or how many people disagree that a 9yo can't be left unattended in a car, etc, etc. It's a clear cut matrix, but people have the same disagreements with this list as any other laws pertaining to when minors can be left alone.

And it's funny because on base, there are almost nil concerns about crime or security issues (creepiness factor is SUPER low) and tons and tons of helpful neighbors and walkable/bikeable resources. If Quill lived on a base, I would say that leaving her 14yo on his own would have more to do with her comfort with breaking the rules on the matrix rather than safety or resources. And we all (that live in base housing) laugh at the irony that these rules would be more practical/applicable if we lived out in town w/o the security of base housing! 😄

As for people actually in the military, I'm sure most 17yo recruits aren't spending the night alone either, but are expected to use a firearm responsibly on their own, so I'm not sure where it all falls out. The military has a weird mix of expecting very young people to make complex, difficult decisions, and being able to react correctly and quickly in a split second... while at the same time giving them safety briefings about random topics like bicycling safety before a long weekend.

[Pen]

I’m offering it in particular because my sense is,

very possibly wrong, that Quill needs some justification for her sense of anxiety.  There’s an underlying disagreement as between her and her dh as I’m understanding the situation.  The dh will be able to enjoy a couple’s time away for several overnights without concern about the 14yo.  Quill will feel stress. 

And probably already feels stress if the dh thinks her views are whacky female anxiety that a 14 yo possibly is not ready for a few nights alone when he and probably the SIL family may think it’s no problem .   

A document to show her dh and maybe his brother if that’s the uncle who might look after her Ds, “look, at 14 Ds would simply not be allowed to be alone overnight if we were in military housing.”   

Rather than to be told her anxiety is unjustified. 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Pen

[Nicholas_mom]

Quote

But something about leaving him completely alone at home bothers me.

This.  You already know the answer.  Sorry I did not read any responses.  This is what came to mind when I read your post.

[EmseB]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

I’m offering it in particular because my sense is, possibly wrong, that Quill needs some justification for her sense of anxiety.  A document to show her dh and maybe his brother if that’s the uncle who might look after her Ds, “look, at 14 Ds would simply not be allowed to be alone overnight.”

Rather than to be told her anxiety is unjustified. 

 

Oh. I certainly never meant to say or imply that her comfort level with any given situation is unjustified. I thought your post was directed at people who had spoken of the military in the thread (of which I was one). Nevermind! 🙂

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I really hope you are able to get away.  Only you truly know what your son is okay with, and only you can know if you’ll be so anxious you won’t be able to enjoy yourself.   

If you do decide to check out any of those Air BnBs, or locations close to them, I can give you some really neat places to go.  And as I said, if you bring DS and I am close enough, I’m happy to check up on him while you’re out enjoying yourself.

Thank you for that offer. I'm not sure now if we can go, or not that date, because of a new tenant moving into a property we manage that weekend. Maybe. But it could be a problem to be away just for that reason. 

[StephanieZ]

Nope, not prudent, sorry. 14 is just too young. 

You could hire someone to stay at the house. Any responsible adult, just to be there for emergencies. A grandmotherly figure, an auntie, a responsible college kid . . . That's what I've done in similar situations. I have a college kid who I've known for eternity, & she's as responsible as they come (and about to finish her education degree). I've long hired her to pet/house sit, and at times, I've added in "putting up with the teens." to her duties. 

For me, I'd say 16 is as low as I'd go for overnights w/o an adult there, and probably not for more than 1-2 nights at a time until closer to 18. 

TBH, I barely trust my adult kids alone for multiple days alone at our house. They MEAN well, but they aren't terribly responsible, to tell the God's honest truth. My youngest (turning 17 next month) is actually my most responsible on household type things, so I'd likely leave her alone for a couple nights sometime soon . . . We did leave her alone for ONE night recently, but that was a first at that age for any of our kids . . . 

Hire a "house sitter" to sleep there at night if you can't comfortably send him to a relative. 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, StephanieZ said:

Hire a "house sitter" to sleep there at night if you can't comfortably send him to a relative. 

I can’t afford this. 

[RootAnn]

In a related-but-not-relevant side note, a (formerly) local family who moved to another town over the summer because the dad has a new job there left two of their daughters here in an apartment the family owns. One is college age & set to get married soon. The other is a senior in high school. Once her sister is married, she'll be living alone.

Well, it is a small town, so I know the boyfriend is there a ton. But theoretically, she'll be living on her own.

I'm pretty rah-rah independent, but I don't know if I'd be comfy with the living alone part. The boyfriend sleeping over would make it worse for me instead of better.

I understand why they did it, but I can't imagine making the same decision.

[catz]

59 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

In a related-but-not-relevant side note, a (formerly) local family who moved to another town over the summer because the dad has a new job there left two of their daughters here in an apartment the family owns. One is college age & set to get married soon. The other is a senior in high school. Once her sister is married, she'll be living alone.

Well, it is a small town, so I know the boyfriend is there a ton. But theoretically, she'll be living on her own.

I'm pretty rah-rah independent, but I don't know if I'd be comfy with the living alone part. The boyfriend sleeping over would make it worse for me instead of better.

I understand why they did it, but I can't imagine making the same decision.

Ugh - I wouldn't like it either.  But I could see a senior in high school really digging their heels in on it too and not wanting to uproot their last year of high school.  Sometimes you have to work with the teen you have.  

[Emba]

Well, I wouldn’t, but you know your kid best. I don’t think my parents would have left me alone overnight at that age, but at that age, several different families trusted me enough to leave me with their kids babysitting until the wee hours of the morning.

But I have a near-14 year old and in no way is she ready for an overnight alone, and we had a recent kidnapping in local headlines, plus some other stuff that makes me very nervous 😬 even thinking about leaving a 14 year old alone that long, and i can’t shake that.

 

[JessieC]

I would not leave my 14yo daughter home alone even one night overnight, and she is very responsible. I think she'd be scared and lonely.

[StephanieZ]

On 9/12/2019 at 6:47 AM, Quill said:

I can’t afford this. 

You might be surprised. The 22 year old we hire is delighted with $50/night. It’s about 20 min of actual effort twice a day and another 10 min a couple more times. Great money if you don’t mind sleeping away from home. In your case, if your kid is in charge of any pets, it’s pretty much no work, just the inconvenience of sleeping at your house. An easy $30-40 night would likely be plenty for the right person. In my state, teachers are paid so poorly they routinely work minimum wage second jobs.  I’ve never had trouble finding house sitters, even when we had a lot more pets and farm animals (so double the work.) 

[73349]

On 9/11/2019 at 5:02 PM, StephanieZ said:

Hire a "house sitter" to sleep there at night if you can't comfortably send him to a relative. 

To me this is adding another layer of uncertainty, unless I already had someone I knew was trustworthy. Adding a house sitter goes from 14yo with the door locked and help a phone call away to a stranger with keys coming into the house with him... another person who would have to be trained in handling emergencies and who, for all I know, might sleep through a fire alarm or trip on the stairs.

Quill, I hope you are able to work something out.