Curfews for young adults

[Scarlett]

I know we have discussed this many times but I am too exhausted to look for an old thread.  

If you have young adults in your home do you have expectations of when they should be home? And when noise in the house should cease?

If you do, what would you do with repeat violators of those expectations. And this is assuming there are no additional issues...where young adult is and who they are with and what they are doing is not a problem.  

So much more difficult than the toddler years.  Or the infant year.  

[Caroline]

We don’t have curfews. We have never had a problem with a kid coming in late and loud. Our one rule is that if you aren’t coming home for the night, text us because if you car isn’t here in the morning I will assume you are upside down in a ditch. 

[Aura]

We don't have curfews, either. They're supposed to text us and let us know when to expect them and stuff, but that's more like what Caroline is saying...if you're not home when you're normally home, I'm going to get worried something bad has happened! It's a safety thing that's expected from everyone...someone should know where you are in case something happens and someone needs to go looking for you! Not like we tell every little thing we're doing, but especially if you're doing something outside the norm.

As for noise, that's never been an issue. A little noise is made when people come in late or when they have to be up at 5:00am to go to work. But it's never been a problem. I have more issues with the dogs making noise than the people! But if a lot of noise was being consistently made, I'd be very hot under the collar!

[fairfarmhand]

Our family is different, somewhat because we live out in the sticks and don’t want our kids stranded late at night without close access to a gas station or something where’s they could get help if there’s a problem.

also, dh and I are up early and people coming in late mean that we don’t get enough sleep because our house layout disturbs is when folks come in. 

 

So we did have curfews when my oldest still lived at home.

She also was super loud and inconsiderate of others. She shared a room with a sibling and woke them up when she’d come in.

and she would be ugly and mean to people living normal life in the morning when she wanted to sleep in.

its your house. You can have whatever rules suit you. If young adults think it’s unreasonable they can do like my dd did and find their own place.

we weren’t trying to be horrible. But we couldn’t allow one persons prefences to disrupt the whole house. 

your house. Your rules. 

[gardenmom5]

are we talking high school age?  or older?  I exerted more control over high schoolers than older/college age.  by college age - I've expected them to learn more of these niceties of living with other people.

I didn't do curfews because they didn't need them.  they're expected to be polite and not wake up sleeping people with their noise.  despite my bedroom being too close to the kitchen - I generally don't hear them making hamburgers at 2am...

but if they make a habit of making a lot of noise in the wee small hours that disturbs my sleep - I may just vacuum outside their bedroom door at 7am...

[regentrude]

We never had a curfew, not even for minors. If we are talking actual young adults, i.e. over 18, I do not consider a curfew appropriate. I wouldn't let another adult impose a curfew on me.

We have a state law that teens may not drive between 1am and 5am, so if teen was out past 1am, I expected them to stay over at their friends until legal to drive again.

Edited April 2, 2019 by regentrude

[TechWife]

No curfew - it isn’t age appropriate for an adult. Not having to keep up with that is one of the benefits of not having young kids, IMO. Estimated times home are a courtesy, one that goes both ways. We let ds know where we are going and about when we will be back and he does the same for us. It’s understood that any more than an hour late is going to cause worry and follow up, but only from the perspective of wanting to make sure everyone is okay and no help is needed. There is no punishment for being later than expected. 

Noise is treated the same way. Be polite. Recognize that others are sleeping. Recognize what a normal noise level is - tv on late at night is not a problem as long as volume is kept at an appropriate level. If someone asks you to turn it down, you turn it down. If there is a consistent noise issue, a respectful conversation between adults is warranted. 

It’s very freeing to realize I don’t have to control ds’ behavior- it’s all on him now. 

[Loowit]

We don't have a set curfew, but we do have expected time home depending on what they are out doing.  Mostly this just applies to our newly turned 18 year old as our other two don't do much going out in the evenings.  She sometimes works closing shift at work and doesn't get home until late.  We ask that she come in quietly and try not to wake people up.  One problems has been that she likes to take a shower after work.  She normally uses the master bath shower, and coming through our room in the middle of the night to shower would not work.  The other shower shares a wall with DS's bedroom and wakes him up, so we have asked that she wait until morning to take her shower.  Other activities we play by ear.

I had planned to do things more like my parents.  I did not have a curfew but I was expected to be responsible and for the most part I was.  However, DD is not very good about being quiet and often wakes people up when she comes home late.  Also, her keeping late hours makes her want to get up late which is disturbing to the rest of us at home.  For example, she makes a lot of noise in the kitchen making a meal after getting up late which interferes with school time with her brothers.

We are struggling a lot with her attitude of "I am an adult and can do what I want".  She may be an adult, but she is dependent on us for her living expenses and we expect her to follow our rules.  If she doesn't like the rules she can get a full time job and move out.  We are very open to discussing rules and changing them if needs be.  That said there is no punishment if she is late, but we may not lend her our car next time if she continues to not follow the rules.

[fairfarmhand]

18 minutes ago, Loowit said:

W

We are struggling a lot with her attitude of "I am an adult and can do what I want".  She may be an adult, but she is dependent on us for her living expenses and we expect her to follow our rules.  If she doesn't like the rules she can get a full time job and move out.  We are very open to discussing rules and changing them if needs be.  That said there is no punishment if she is late, but we may not lend her our car next time if she continues to not follow the rules.

WE had that same struggle. 

Our response was "Fine. Adults who don't want to be considerate can simply be a true adult by moving to a place where their behavior can be better accommodated. You are not entitled to disrupt the whole house." This was important for us because we have much younger kids here.

I looked at it like this. If I rented a room to a total stranger and their habits disturbed the flow and harmony of our home, they would have to go and since I am the homeowner, that is my call. It was no different for my adult kids. Maybe that's mean or controlling or whatever. But dad pays the bills and if he struggles with focus because he's tired and the whole house is grumpy because of one person...it's just a living situation that will not work for all the parties.

Currently, my dd has a roommate who does things that really bother my dd. So she's moving on to another place and another person. Okay. Mom and dad are no different. 

[Scarlett]

It feels like some of you are saying no curfew but then go on to say your kids aren’t coming in late and keeping you awake.  If ds19 wasn’t coming in late and waking us up he wouldn’t need a curfew either.  

Yes he is legal adult....which is why I am not managing where he goes and with whom etc.  The curfew is because without it he will come in even later.  And coming in late interrupt our sleep. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

WE had that same struggle. 

Our response was "Fine. Adults who don't want to be considerate can simply be a true adult by moving to a place where their behavior can be better accommodated. You are not entitled to disrupt the whole house." This was important for us because we have much younger kids here.

I looked at it like this. If I rented a room to a total stranger and their habits disturbed the flow and harmony of our home, they would have to go and since I am the homeowner, that is my call. It was no different for my adult kids. Maybe that's mean or controlling or whatever. But dad pays the bills and if he struggles with focus because he's tired and the whole house is grumpy because of one person...it's just a living situation that will not work for all the parties.

Currently, my dd has a roommate who does things that really bother my dd. So she's moving on to another place and another person. Okay. Mom and dad are no different. 

Exactly.  I am struggling with how to word it.  You have some good thoughts here.  This isn’t about me trying to control him.  Sure he is an adult....one that is currently being supported by his parents and his step dad.  

I was 17 when I moved out.  3 days after graduation. I wasn’t mad at my mom, she didn’t kick me out, there was no conflict.  I just wanted to be an adult and be on my own.  So I would be supportive and understanding of that if that is what he wanted to do.  But what he wants to do is be supported by me and not have to answer to house rules at all.  I mean he doesn’t say that with words...,but by breaking curfew few he does. 

[KidsHappen]

Two young adults here and we don't do curfews. They both have full time jobs and sometimes come home late at night. If they are planning on not coming home they usually let us know and if they are leaving the house late they will let us know if we are still awake. But pretty much they are like adult room mates in that they are independent and they aren't really required to consult us on their coming and goings. They are quiet but I am always awake at night so I hear them anyhow but they don't wake my hubby.

[Mergath]

25 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

WE had that same struggle. 

Our response was "Fine. Adults who don't want to be considerate can simply be a true adult by moving to a place where their behavior can be better accommodated. You are not entitled to disrupt the whole house." This was important for us because we have much younger kids here.

I looked at it like this. If I rented a room to a total stranger and their habits disturbed the flow and harmony of our home, they would have to go and since I am the homeowner, that is my call. It was no different for my adult kids. Maybe that's mean or controlling or whatever. But dad pays the bills and if he struggles with focus because he's tired and the whole house is grumpy because of one person...it's just a living situation that will not work for all the parties.

Currently, my dd has a roommate who does things that really bother my dd. So she's moving on to another place and another person. Okay. Mom and dad are no different. 

 

I just want to point out that legally, that isn't actually true, that if you rented out a room and the person annoyed you, you could kick them out at your discretion. Tenants paying rent have certain rights under the law, and if they aren't in violation of a lease, there's no grounds for eviction. 

[Selkie]

No curfew here, either - our kids are 16, 18, and 20. The 16 y.o. doesn't go out much at night, but the older two are out and about at all hours. They're night owls, so I'm used to hearing them rattling around in the wee hours of the morning. It's never disrupted my sleep enough to be a problem (and dh can sleep through anything).  I'm an early riser, so sometimes one of them will just be going to bed when I'm getting up.🙂

[Carrie12345]

39 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It feels like some of you are saying no curfew but then go on to say your kids aren’t coming in late and keeping you awake.  If ds19 wasn’t coming in late and waking us up he wouldn’t need a curfew either.  

Yes he is legal adult....which is why I am not managing where he goes and with whom etc.  The curfew is because without it he will come in even later.  And coming in late interrupt our sleep. 

A curfew doesn’t make a person quiet or respectful, it just (maybe) shifts their rude noise into a preferable time frame. I’d focus on raising awareness of common courtesies over cutting freedoms. 

[GoodGrief]

45 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It feels like some of you are saying no curfew but then go on to say your kids aren’t coming in late and keeping you awake.  If ds19 wasn’t coming in late and waking us up he wouldn’t need a curfew either.  

Yes he is legal adult....which is why I am not managing where he goes and with whom etc.  The curfew is because without it he will come in even later.  And coming in late interrupt our sleep. 

If it's disruptive behavior, I'd treat it as I would with a non-related adult who lived/rented with us. Explain why the behavior is a problem and see if they can alter it so we are all satisfied. If they cannot/will not, then it's time for them to find a new place to live in the way that they prefer.

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

A curfew doesn’t make a person quiet or respectful, it just (maybe) shifts their rude noise into a preferable time frame. I’d focus on raising awareness of common courtesies over cutting freedoms. 

It doesn’t matter how quiet he is.  If he isn’t home I can’t sleep.  If I do go to sleep I wake up and wonder if he is home or in a ditch.  I just don’t want to deal with that stress.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, GoodGrief1 said:

If it's disruptive behavior, I'd treat it as I would with a non-related adult who lived/rented with us. Explain why the behavior is a problem and see if they can alter it so we are all satisfied. If they cannot/will not, then it's time for them to find a new place to live in the way that they prefer.

That is pretty much the conversation I just had with him.  He said he will not be late again.  

We shall see. 

[AmandaVT]

21 minutes ago, Mergath said:

 

I just want to point out that legally, that isn't actually true, that if you rented out a room and the person annoyed you, you could kick them out at your discretion. Tenants paying rent have certain rights under the law, and if they aren't in violation of a lease, there's no grounds for eviction. 

 

That may be state dependent - I believe in VT, you can terminate a lease with 60 days notice for any reason. 

[Mergath]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It doesn’t matter how quiet he is.  If he isn’t home I can’t sleep.  If I do go to sleep I wake up and wonder if he is home or in a ditch.  I just don’t want to deal with that stress.  

 

I think that's something you need to work out for yourself, though. If he moved out you'd have to find a way to sleep with him gone every single night. It isn't really fair to tell someone that they need to curtail normal, age-appropriate activities to accommodate our own anxieties. And I have OCD, so I do know all about wanting to do that. At a certain point though, you have to say, "This is my issue, and I need to find a way to deal with it because I can't control the people around me all the time."

Edited April 2, 2019 by Mergath

[Farrar]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It doesn’t matter how quiet he is.  If he isn’t home I can’t sleep.  If I do go to sleep I wake up and wonder if he is home or in a ditch.  I just don’t want to deal with that stress.  

But if he's being quiet and responsible otherwise and you agree with the people who say young adults shouldn't have a curfew unless there's are particular circumstances, then how can he change this? It's out of his control.

[Mergath]

3 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

 

That may be state dependent - I believe in VT, you can terminate a lease with 60 days notice for any reason. 

 

I'm sure it does vary. But I don't think there's anywhere in the US where you can say, "You annoy me. Be out by tomorrow."

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It doesn’t matter how quiet he is.  If he isn’t home I can’t sleep.  If I do go to sleep I wake up and wonder if he is home or in a ditch.  I just don’t want to deal with that stress. 

But that is YOUR issue to fix, not his to accommodate. If he weren't living at home, you'd have no idea whether he's in a  ditch or not. that's a transition you as the parent need to work through.

Edited April 2, 2019 by regentrude

[almondbutterandjelly]

Scarlett, do you have Find a Friend on your phone?  I can't tell you the peace of mind we have with our dd.  We don't bother her, we just check where she is and can guess whether she's okay (or in a ditch 🙂 ).  I think your ds would have to allow it for you to be able to use it with him, but we have found it's so reassuring and our dd doesn't mind.  She is free to come and go as she pleases (although we do recommend not driving after midnight.  Stay at a friend's instead if you expect to be out that late because car accidents tend to happen after midnight around here.)

[May]

When our adult daughters lived at home, they didn’t have a curfew. I just asked they texted by 9pm to tell me their plans. I get about being a light sleeper and I found it very difficult to sleep knowing they were still out. As someone else said, that was my problem😕 Their dad did ask them not to shower after 9pm because he could hear the shower and he got up early, 4:30am. Hope you can figure something out🌺

[Scarlett]

42 minutes ago, Mergath said:

 

I'm sure it does vary. But I don't think there's anywhere in the US where you can say, "You annoy me. Be out by tomorrow."

Right.  And I wouldn't do that to my son either.  But I think her point was most of us wouldn't have tenants in our personal space if it bothered us.

[Scarlett]

44 minutes ago, Farrar said:

But if he's being quiet and responsible otherwise and you agree with the people who say young adults shouldn't have a curfew unless there's are particular circumstances, then how can he change this? It's out of his control.

 

43 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But that is YOUR issue to fix, not his to accommodate. If he weren't living at home, you'd have no idea whether he's in a  ditch or not. that's a transition you as the parent need to work through.

 

4 minutes ago, May said:

When our adult daughters lived at home, they didn’t have a curfew. I just asked they texted by 9pm to tell me their plans. I get about being a light sleeper and I found it very difficult to sleep knowing they were still out. As someone else said, that was my problem😕 Their dad did ask them not to shower after 9pm because he could hear the shower and he got up early, 4:30am. Hope you can figure something out🌺

I am not asking him to 'fix' my worry.  I am asking him to be home at a decent hour so I can sleep.  I really think it is a small thing to ask of someone that is getting most of the perks of adulthood with none of the responsibility.  

I am not really  having trouble transitioning to not worrying about him.  My friends who have already gone through this say it is so much easier when they aren't living with you.  You aren't sitting there waiting and wondering when they will show up.  

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, perkybunch said:

Scarlett, do you have Find a Friend on your phone?  I can't tell you the peace of mind we have with our dd.  We don't bother her, we just check where she is and can guess whether she's okay (or in a ditch 🙂 ).  I think your ds would have to allow it for you to be able to use it with him, but we have found it's so reassuring and our dd doesn't mind.  She is free to come and go as she pleases (although we do recommend not driving after midnight.  Stay at a friend's instead if you expect to be out that late because car accidents tend to happen after midnight around here.)

He did have Life 360 on his phone which is soooooo helpful to me.  If I woke up in the middle of the night I could check to see if he was home.  If he was not home at curfew I could check to see if he was almost home.  We live 10 miles out in the very dark country,  2 lane narrow roads, over a long dyke with steep banks leading to deep waters.  So I hate to text him when he might be driving....which is what I had to do last night because he had it turned off.  

[Mergath]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

 

I am not asking him to 'fix' my worry.  I am asking him to be home at a decent hour so I can sleep.  I really think it is a small thing to ask of someone that is getting most of the perks of adulthood with none of the responsibility.  

I am not really  having trouble transitioning to not worrying about him.  My friends who have already gone through this say it is so much easier when they aren't living with you.  You aren't sitting there waiting and wondering when they will show up.  

 

It might be a small thing to you, but obviously it isn't to your son or you wouldn't be posting about it. 

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

 

I am not asking him to 'fix' my worry.  I am asking him to be home at a decent hour so I can sleep.  I really think it is a small thing to ask of someone that is getting most of the perks of adulthood with none of the responsibility.  

I am not really  having trouble transitioning to not worrying about him.  My friends who have already gone through this say it is so much easier when they aren't living with you.  You aren't sitting there waiting and wondering when they will show up.  

 

What time do you consider to be “a decent hour?”

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am not asking him to 'fix' my worry.  I am asking him to be home at a decent hour so I can sleep. 

Which is exactly asking him to alter his perfectly normal behavior to accommodate your worrying.

[HS Mom in NC]

I didn't set curfew for legal adults-that's contrary to the nature of being a legal adult. I do expect anyone coming home late to not wake anyone else because that's how adults are expected to behave. I didn't expect them home for dinner because it's not practical to default to assuming they'll be home, it's more practical to default to assuming they won't be home. If they were planning on being home for dinner, which they were and are always welcome to do, they needed to let me know by around 4ish in the afternoon so I could plan accordingly. If not they can eat leftovers, pick something up on the on way home, or  cook for themselves and clean up after themselves. That's how adult life works; we expect adults to feed themselves daily, but if they're going to accept the open dinner invitation to a meal another adult is making, they're expected to give adequate notice.

It's not my adult child's job to be home so I don't wonder where they are.  Parenting an adult means not knowing where your child is at all times or what they're doing at all times.  Those things are no longer my concern when I'm no longer legally responsible for them. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes wonder, but there's no need for anxiety because it's no different than any other adult relationship. I don't get upset about not knowing where my adult siblings or friends or parents are or what they're doing.  They're adults and they can take care of themselves.  Any regular, ongoing anxiety about that should be discussed with a someone licensed to diagnose anxiety issues and prescribe the appropriate meds or cognitive therapy.  

[HS Mom in NC]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

 

I am not asking him to 'fix' my worry.  I am asking him to be home at a decent hour so I can sleep.

Yes, you are asking him to fix your worry because you've convinced yourself that your sleep is dependent on him being home when you sleep.  That's not a realistic expectation on your part.  It's not his job to alter his schedule to fix your sleep.  The only realistic expectation you can have is that he not make loud noises when other people in the household are sleeping during regular sleep hours.

[theelfqueen]

My just-turned-18 year old .... we are working this out because he does not have the option to move out. (Well he does but it will cost him more than just moving out.)

We agreed to back him in the school program he is in, only as long as he lives at home and continues to respect our expectations. It's an agreement we reached with him and the terms are clear. He has made some questionable decisions in the past and trust is a work in progress, so the deal is if you want to do this program, you will continue to maintain our rules. This was laid out before he joined the program. He has only had the legal curfew before but we do expect him to make a plan (I will be home at 12) and contact us if that plan changes (make that 12:30). If he doesn't do that the consequences may include loss of the use of our car (which is for his sole use but belongs to us). That may be harsh but the situation we are in has required us to lay out some specific expectations that are terms for the agreement we have reached. 

I say lay it on the table. 

He CAN move out. But it will involve us choosing not to be responsible for things over which we have no oversight. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by theelfqueen
Typo

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I didn't set curfew for legal adults-that's contrary to the nature of being a legal adult. I do expect anyone coming home late to not wake anyone else because that's how adults are expected to behave. I didn't expect them home for dinner because it's not practical to default to assuming they'll be home, it's more practical to default to assuming they won't be home. If they were planning on being home for dinner, which they were and are always welcome to do, they needed to let me know by around 4ish in the afternoon so I could plan accordingly. If not they can eat leftovers, pick something up on the on way home, or  cook for themselves and clean up after themselves. That's how adult life works; we expect adults to feed themselves daily, but if they're going to accept the open dinner invitation to a meal another adult is making, they're expected to give adequate notice.

It's not my adult child's job to be home so I don't wonder where they are.  Parenting an adult means not knowing where your child is at all times or what they're doing at all times.  Those things are no longer my concern when I'm no longer legally responsible for them. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes wonder, but there's no need for anxiety because it's no different than any other adult relationship. I don't get upset about not knowing where my adult siblings or friends or parents are or what they're doing.  They're adults and they can take care of themselves.  Any regular, ongoing anxiety about that should be discussed with a someone licensed to diagnose anxiety issues and prescribe the appropriate meds or cognitive therapy.  

I don't expect him home for dinner.  I don't ask him where he is or what he is doing.  I don't worry about it.  I am not asking him to be home so I don't wonder where he is.  I am asking for him to be home at an agreed upon time so that MY sleep in MY home is not ruined.  Really that is all there is to this.  My sleep.  My husband's sleep.  It is very important to our overall health and well being.  

[SKL]

IMO the approach to take is to discuss consideration for the homeowners and other members of the household.  To the extent that someone needs quiet after a certain hour, then the others need to be courteous and quiet after that hour.  Either the person needs to be home and quiet, or to have a way to get home without disturbing those who need the quiet (real emergencies excepted).  Also, your choice to come in late does not translate to my problem in the morning.

IMO this also means the homeowner should provide the adult with a way to enter quietly, i.e., a key and an entrance that is not in someone's sleeping quarters.  The parent should go to sleep when the parent needs sleep - not sit up waiting for an adult who has a life after Xpm.

If the young adult repeatedly ignores reasonable expectations, then changes need to be made in his living situation.  Maybe he moves out or takes up residence in the garage.

[Mergath]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I don't expect him home for dinner.  I don't ask him where he is or what he is doing.  I don't worry about it.  I am not asking him to be home so I don't wonder where he is.  I am asking for him to be home at an agreed upon time so that MY sleep in MY home is not ruined.  Really that is all there is to this.  My sleep.  My husband's sleep.  It is very important to our overall health and well being.  

 

But why is his presence required before you can sleep? That's the crux of the issue here.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Yes, you are asking him to fix your worry because you've convinced yourself that your sleep is dependent on him being home when you sleep.  That's not a realistic expectation on your part.  It's not his job to alter his schedule to fix your sleep.  The only realistic expectation you can have is that he not make loud noises when other people in the household are sleeping during regular sleep hours.

It is a fact I don't sleep well if at all while waiting for someone to come in.  It isn't something I have 'convinced' myself of.  And again it isn't that I need him 'home'.  I sleep fine when he is away.  Which is rare.  But regardless, it is simply my sleep is affected very much waiting for someone to show up at my home.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Mergath said:

 

But why is his presence required before you can sleep? That's the crux of the issue here.

It isn't his presence.  If he slept elsewhere and I knew he wouldn't be home I would be able to sleep.  

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don't expect him home for dinner.  I don't ask him where he is or what he is doing.  I don't worry about it.  I am not asking him to be home so I don't wonder where he is.  I am asking for him to be home at an agreed upon time so that MY sleep in MY home is not ruined.  Really that is all there is to this.  My sleep.  My husband's sleep.  It is very important to our overall health and well being.  

 

Yes, but you also said that you can’t sleep when your son isn’t at home. 

It seems like you are talking about two different issues here. 

Is the problem that your son is making so much noise when he comes in that he is waking you and your husband, or is the problem that you are unable to sleep unless your son is in the house?

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, but you also said that you can’t sleep when your son isn’t at home. 

It seems like you are talking about two different issues here. 

Is the problem that your son is making so much noise when he comes in that he is waking you and your husband, or is the problem that you are unable to sleep unless your son is in the house?

I can't sleep if I am WAITING for him to come home.  If I don't expect him to come home,  I can sleep fine.  

[Mergath]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

It isn't his presence.  If he slept elsewhere and I knew he wouldn't be home I would be able to sleep.  

 

So why can't he say, "I'll be at X until 11 and then I'll come home?" 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I can't sleep if I am WAITING for him to come home.  If I don't expect him to come home,  I can sleep fine.  

 

Ok, but what does that have to do with your husband’s sleep? 

It still seems like you are talking about two different problems.

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It is a fact I don't sleep well if at all while waiting for someone to come in.  It isn't something I have 'convinced' myself of.  And again it isn't that I need him 'home'.  I sleep fine when he is away.  Which is rare.  But regardless, it is simply my sleep is affected very much waiting for someone to show up at my home.

In this case you might need to tell your son he can't live there if he keeps late hours.  Not because he is doing anything wrong, but because you can't handle it.  You could say you have really tried and it isn't his fault, but you absolutely need your sleep and this isn't working.

Personally I would find that a difficult conversation to have.  But if it is your reality, then I think you need to have it.

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

IMO the approach to take is to discuss consideration for the homeowners and other members of the household.  To the extent that someone needs quiet after a certain hour, then the others need to be courteous and quiet after that hour.  Either the person needs to be home and quiet, or to have a way to get home without disturbing those who need the quiet (real emergencies excepted).  Also, your choice to come in late does not translate to my problem in the morning.

IMO this also means the homeowner should provide the adult with a way to enter quietly, i.e., a key and an entrance that is not in someone's sleeping quarters.  The parent should go to sleep when the parent needs sleep - not sit up waiting for an adult who has a life after Xpm.

If the young adult repeatedly ignores reasonable expectations, then changes need to be made in his living situation.  Maybe he moves out or takes up residence in the garage.

Right.  And this is were we are.  We have what we feel are reasonable expectations.  Be home at 11:-00-.  If you don't like that expectation you are free to live elsewhere.  As far as coming in and making noise....we realize humans make noise.  He isn't being loud and rude.  But our house is laid out in such a way it is impossible to not hear people coming in the house or using the bathroom. 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Mergath said:

 

So why can't he say, "I'll be at X until 11 and then I'll come home?" 

 

Maybe she stays awake to make sure he gets home safely?

But it’s not her son’s fault if she is doing that. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Right.  And this is were we are.  We have what we feel are reasonable expectations.  Be home at 11:-00-.  If you don't like that expectation you are free to live elsewhere.  As far as coming in and making noise....we realize humans make noise.  He isn't being loud and rude.  But our house is laid out in such a way it is impossible to not hear people coming in the house or using the bathroom. 

 

An 11:00 curfew for a 19yo?

That seems awfully strict!

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Ok, but what does that have to do with your husband’s sleep? 

It still seems like you are talking about two different problems.

What two problems?  My husband and I both don't sleep well waiting for either of the boys to come home. Two people, same problem.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Maybe she stays awake to make sure he gets home safely?

But it’s not her son’s fault if she is doing that. 

No.  I do not stay away to make sure he gets home safely.  I cannot sleep while knowing he will come in soon and wake me up anyway.  Thus the request we have for them to be home at a time we normally are going to sleep. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

What two problems?  My husband and I both don't sleep well waiting for either of the boys to come home. Two people, same problem.

 

You never mentioned that your dh had the same problem. You said that you couldn’t sleep if your son wasn’t home.