High School paper dilemma

[SquirrellyMama]

My ds is a sophmore at the local PS school. His Honors English class is doing a research paper, and I really wish he'd picked a different topic. I'm not going to give his topic here, but I will say it is a very hotly debated topic. 

I know he's in high school, and his topic has been approved, but I really see this ending badly. Either alienating people or possibly getting suspended for hate speech (mostly because disagreeing with a certain viewpoint can possibly be considered hate speech). That might depend on the school and how arrogant he is in his delivery. High possibility of arrogance.

I tried last night to get him to change it, but he is adamant. He thinks he knows everything, and believes he is a good debater. He is awful at debate and will "win" arguments because people just want to get away.

ETA: This is my kid that fights every rule we make. He also knows absolutely everything, an expert in everything! 

2nd ETA- I don't think it would be considered hate speech for just the project, but he gets really heated and says stupid things on the fly. 

This kid is going to kill me with stress! 

Kelly

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by SquirrellyMama

[Ellie]

He's your first-born, yes? Well, that's the way some of us first-borns act...unless and until we grow up and find some maturity. 🙂

[Bambam]

I'd remind him this is a research paper not a persuasive paper. Stick to the facts. Answer questions with facts. No emotion, no judgement, just the facts. I'd also strongly encourage him, if appropriate, to counter arguments by presenting research on that side of the issue too. 

[SquirrellyMama]

10 minutes ago, Ellie said:

He's your first-born, yes? Well, that's the way some of us first-borns act...unless and until we grow up and find some maturity. 🙂

No, he's actually the middle child, and only boy. People keep telling me he will mature. I hope so. 

He is really a black and white thinker. If it isn't all right, then it is all wrong.

He's also very changeable, but it is still black or white, no gray. I live in gray so it is so streasful.

 

Kelly

Edited February 6, 2019 by SquirrellyMama

[MEmama]

As another parent of a sophomore in PS, you have my deepest sympathy. No advice, unfortunately, but man you are SO not alone. It's painful to watch. :(

[4everHis]

40 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

No, he's actually the middle child, and only boy. People keep telling me he will mature. I hope so. 

He is really a black and white thinker. If it isn't all right, then it is all wrong.

He's also very changeable, but it is still black or white, no gray. I live in gray so it is so streasful.

 

Kelly

I think our boys might be twins. Possibly you & I, too. This child makes my whole being tired. My prayer for him is that he lives long enough to reach that maturity level we're all hoping for. Bambam's suggestions make a lot of sense.

[Bootsie]

Is this simply a written research paper, or does he have to make an oral presentation, also?

Look on the brightside, he is willing to accept a challenge and write about something meaningful to him rather than something that is easy to check off boxes.  This will serve him well in the long run.

[SquirrellyMama]

7 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Is this simply a written research paper, or does he have to make an oral presentation, also?

Look on the brightside, he is willing to accept a challenge and write about something meaningful to him rather than something that is easy to check off boxes.  This will serve him well in the long run.

There is an oral presentation which is the worrying part. He just has this way of coming off very arrogant. 

I'll try to look at that positive, just having a hard time.

Kelly

[Valley Girl]

Some people likely will try to be the thought police. That may be unavoidable. But if he feels strongly about the topic and has legitimate reasons for his position, then I would think his best bet is to make sure his facts are solid and from reputable and varied sources. Anticipate the arguments from the other side and address them respectfully because issues are rarely black-and-white. Speak (or write) about any common ground. Unfortunately, even respectful disagreement can make people a target today if you're not arguing the "correct" view.

[marbel]

He may surprise you.

My kid was in his first year at community college (not hugely more mature than a high school sophomore, honestly) and had to do a paper and speech on something controversial. There wasn't possible hate speech involved, but it could have gone badly. We reminded him to take care with how he presented opinions because he could come off very arrogant and like a "know it all."  And then we left it. 

He ended up getting an A and several comments from fellow students and the teacher that he had given them a new perspective on the topic.

Would he be willing to rehearse the oral presentation with you, so you can help him soften his approach?

 

[Catwoman]

39 minutes ago, marbel said:

He may surprise you.

My kid was in his first year at community college (not hugely more mature than a high school sophomore, honestly) and had to do a paper and speech on something controversial. There wasn't possible hate speech involved, but it could have gone badly. We reminded him to take care with how he presented opinions because he could come off very arrogant and like a "know it all."  And then we left it. 

He ended up getting an A and several comments from fellow students and the teacher that he had given them a new perspective on the topic.

Would he be willing to rehearse the oral presentation with you, so you can help him soften his approach?

 

 

That’s an excellent idea! But maybe just frame it as rehearsing his presentation because you know it will be great and you want to hear it, because if he thinks you might be at all critical, he might not go for it. 🙂

[moonflower]

I would be prepared to stand up for him with the school administration.  If you think he is going to say things that are basically hate speech ("All Jews should be gassed"), maybe not.  But if you think he is going to say things that are not hate speech but might be considered so by someone who really disagrees with his position ("Same-sex marriage should not be legally recognized in the US, race is not just a social construct, the moral values of the Founding Fathers were sound, etc."), he may need either your help or at least your guidance in defending himself successfully.

When DH was in high school he once exclaimed "Jesus Christ!" in math class.  His teacher tried to get him suspended.  (It was a public high school).  He was sent to the office, where he told the principal he'd contact the ACLU.  Whether the ACLU would have taken his case I have no idea, but they sent him right back to class and never mentioned it again.

[elegantlion]

If it's a research paper he should be getting his evidence from multiple sources, especially if it's a hotly debated topic. He must be able to explain why the opposing side is wrong, not just why his side is right. Evidence from biased sources (on either side) is going to weaken his case. If belief systems are involved in the issue, he must be able to find evidence outside of that belief system to back his case. 

[Ellie]

6 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

No, he's actually the middle child, and only boy. People keep telling me he will mature. I hope so. 

He is really a black and white thinker. If it isn't all right, then it is all wrong.

He's also very changeable, but it is still black or white, no gray. I live in gray so it is so streasful.

 

Kelly

According to the author of the Birth Order Book, yes, he's a first born, because he's the first born boy. And yes, he is the epitome of a first born.

I have worked all my adult life to think less in black and white and more in gray. It isn't easy. 😮

[Farrar]

Kids should be debating controversial topics in high school.

That said, teachers shouldn't approve a topic for debate that does not merit debate. "Should African Americans be allowed to be full US citizens?" is NOT an acceptable debate or paper topic. On the other hand, "Is 'stop and frisk' a constitutional and justified policing tool?" is going to be really controversial and could lead to people saying things that aren't acceptable, but is an acceptable topic for debate or a paper.

[Liz CA]

No matter the topic or the delivery, he better not be accused of rubbish like hate speech! This is a HS project where students are supposed to learn how to debate things. He is not running for public office yet. 

Otherwise I'd try Marbel's approach. Have him rehearse with you some key points.

[Tanaqui]

12 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

No matter the topic or the delivery, he better not be accused of rubbish like hate speech! This is a HS project where students are supposed to learn how to debate things. He is not running for public office yet.  

Otherwise I'd try Marbel's approach. Have him rehearse with you some key points.

 

Unless, of course, he is actually engaging in hate speech. There are absolutely high schoolers - presumably not the OP's kid, but who knows? - who will hide behind "Free speech/we're just learning!" in order to say bigoted things like "$GROUP is inherently criminal/evil/cannibalistic/ruling the world".

[Farrar]

42 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

No matter the topic or the delivery, he better not be accused of rubbish like hate speech! This is a HS project where students are supposed to learn how to debate things. He is not running for public office yet. 

Otherwise I'd try Marbel's approach. Have him rehearse with you some key points.

No student should be allowed to use a classroom forum to spew hatred and bigotry. I assume the OP's ds is not about to do anything of this sort, but if a student were a member of the KKK or something, allowing them to stand up there and "debate" that black people or Jews or any group of people are somehow inferior is simply not okay and absolutely should be called hate speech. That's not nonsense. And it has a real negative effect on a community if a teacher allows it. Whether or not the student is running for public office has nothing to do with it.

I assume that this is more of a controversial opinion... perhaps one that some people say aligns with bigotry of some kind but also can be argued in a reasonable way is not bigoted. Being against affirmative action would be a good example of such a position.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'd say if the teacher approved the topic, she'd sure better be ready to defend his right to present either side.  I'd possibly contact her and let her know you are counting on that.  

[Liz CA]

3 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Unless, of course, he is actually engaging in hate speech. There are absolutely high schoolers - presumably not the OP's kid, but who knows? - who will hide behind "Free speech/we're just learning!" in order to say bigoted things like "$GROUP is inherently criminal/evil/cannibalistic/ruling the world".

 

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

No student should be allowed to use a classroom forum to spew hatred and bigotry. I assume the OP's ds is not about to do anything of this sort, but if a student were a member of the KKK or something, allowing them to stand up there and "debate" that black people or Jews or any group of people are somehow inferior is simply not okay and absolutely should be called hate speech. That's not nonsense. And it has a real negative effect on a community if a teacher allows it. Whether or not the student is running for public office has nothing to do with it.

I assume that this is more of a controversial opinion... perhaps one that some people say aligns with bigotry of some kind but also can be argued in a reasonable way is not bigoted. Being against affirmative action would be a good example of such a position.

 

No, I didn't think of it in those terms. I just thought similar to what Monica said that there should be no negative repercussions for politely presenting one's viewpoint (even if it does not agree with the teacher's or the majority) or even two controversial viewpoints depending on the assignment. And an educator should have the skills to de-escalate the situation if things get a little heated as OP wrote he may get excited in his delivery or as he is debating his points.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Liz CA

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, moonflower said:

I would be prepared to stand up for him with the school administration.  If you think he is going to say things that are basically hate speech ("All Jews should be gassed"), maybe not.  But if you think he is going to say things that are not hate speech but might be considered so by someone who really disagrees with his position ("Same-sex marriage should not be legally recognized in the US, race is not just a social construct, the moral values of the Founding Fathers were sound, etc."), he may need either your help or at least your guidance in defending himself successfully.

When DH was in high school he once exclaimed "Jesus Christ!" in math class.  His teacher tried to get him suspended.  (It was a public high school).  He was sent to the office, where he told the principal he'd contact the ACLU.  Whether the ACLU would have taken his case I have no idea, but they sent him right back to class and never mentioned it again.

 

I don't think it is just about the topic though, but also about the delivery.  We have had to deal with quite a few "but it's my freedom of speech" comments by teenagers lately at my school.  The parents often try to defend their kids, but the comments are still not appropriate for school.  

"I am against gun control because we should have the right to defend ourselves" is different than adding a comment about "against those X race criminals" at the end.  

I guess I am thinking this is about gun control, abortion, a border wall, or gay rights.  Those seem to be the hot button topics right now.

[DawnM]

Kelly,

To be honest with you, I would probably be contacting the teacher and telling my kid to pick a different topic.  I would not take chances on this becoming an issue.

If this were college, and the kids were more mature.....but high school......I wouldn't.  

[EMS83]

Are people more mature in college?  🤐

[Farrar]

For me, I guess what needs to be clear to kids is that "viewpoint" is not sacred. Just because you think something doesn't mean it's okay to express it in a particular context (in this case, the classroom).

When I was teaching, sometimes kids wanted to know the "right" answer for complex questions on homework I would assign. Like, why did such and such an event happen or which leader from this time period was the greatest. And my go to answer was always: there isn't a right answer, however, there are wrong ones. There isn't a right viewpoint about most things... And in life, you can have pretty much any viewpoint, no matter who you hate or dismiss. But in a classroom, where the teacher's job is to educate - then there are boundaries. First of all, it can't be an unsupportable viewpoint in the context of your class. Talking about how the Holocaust never happened is not a supportable viewpoint in a history classroom. End stop. Talking about how the earth is only a few thousand years old in science class is also not a supportable viewpoint. Your supports for your viewpoint also need to be secular in a public school classroom. If a religious text is the only support for your viewpoint, then it isn't supportable in a public school class. Again, doesn't mean you can't have that view, but it doesn't belong in that class, and the teacher should cut off anyone who has it and redirect them in terms of the assignment. Because viewpoint is not paramount. And the forum the teacher is providing is for supported views within the context  of the assignment.

In terms of hate speech, I think it's that the view can't rest on the inferiority or a simple desire for the lack of rights for any group of people. It also can't rest on the idea that a group of people is "immoral" if that immorality is defined by religion, because, again, you can't do that in a secular public school classroom. The argument we shouldn't define "special rights" for such and such a group of people because defining specific rights hurts us all in the following ways... is okay. But we shouldn't define special rights for this group because their beliefs/practices are sinful/immoral is not an okay argument. 

Now, if this is a religious private school, that's a different ball game. And private schools can make the rules however they want.

But generally speaking, I know high school students aren't mature and mess this whole thing up. Good teachers will be understanding, will cut a student off if they start veering into territory that will not be allowed, won't allow assignments that aren't really up for debate in the first place, and they'll help students learn to defend their viewpoints with the right sort of arguments. And they should do this even for views that they strongly disagree with. And if they don't, you should go defend your kid's right to express that view if the teacher okayed it for the assignment in the first place. Especially if other students express controversial views that your student disagrees with.

[SanDiegoMom]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

 

But generally speaking, I know high school students aren't mature and mess this whole thing up. Good teachers will be understanding, will cut a student off if they start veering into territory that will not be allowed, won't allow assignments that aren't really up for debate in the first place, and they'll help students learn to defend their viewpoints with the right sort of arguments. And they should do this even for views that they strongly disagree with. And if they don't, you should go defend your kid's right to express that view if the teacher okayed it for the assignment in the first place. Especially if other students express controversial views that your student disagrees with.

This was my experience in HS  -- good teachers knew when to redirect, help students rephrase, and then shut down debate when needed.  It definitely helped kids figure out what was an educated opinion vs what was a sweeping possible biased generalization.   

But if it is a school in which there is one prevailing mindset and your son is of the opposite, he might be in for a tough time.  

I would definitely be worried if his trend it to beat the opposition into submission (or flight).  But I remember a lot of kids in HS who were very sure of themselves (one committed  libertarian I recall was VERY vocal about his obviously correct opinions!) and we just rolled with it.  Definitely dependent on the environment though -- we were in the AP bubble at that point, so only about 15 kids taking most of their classes together. We had to work hard to get along since we saw each other all the time!

 

[DawnM]

Here is another thing I worry about:

If the paper is about the wall......are there students from some of those countries who would be hurt by the paper?

If the paper is about abortion.....are there students who have had an abortion, or have a close friend who has, who would be hurt?

If the paper is about gun control.....is there a student in the class whose family member has been harmed by a gun, for whom this would be a trigger of painful memories?

I think part of my issue (as an English teacher) would be, "where are you going with this?"  When I taught Senior English, and the kids had to pick a senior project (with paper), I told them I would not allow controversial topics.  The judges, while they are not supposed to judge you on the topic, certainly come with their own biases, opinions, and life experiences.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Here is another thing I worry about:

If the paper is about the wall......are there students from some of those countries who would be hurt by the paper?

If the paper is about abortion.....are there students who have had an abortion, or have a close friend who has, who would be hurt?

If the paper is about gun control.....is there a student in the class whose family member has been harmed by a gun, for whom this would be a trigger of painful memories?

I think part of my issue (as an English teacher) would be, "where are you going with this?"  When I taught Senior English, and the kids had to pick a senior project (with paper), I told them I would not allow controversial topics.  The judges, while they are not supposed to judge you on the topic, certainly come with their own biases, opinions, and life experiences.

For me, I think the value in being able to discuss controversial issues like the ones you list above, is more important than protecting students' emotional reactions to those topics once they're teens. I do think allowing one side of an issue to cross a line into bullying or hate speech isn't okay. Nor is allowing debate to just carry on and on ad infinitem. Students should feel safe enough in classrooms and teachers should respect them enough and know them well enough to allow them to be excused if it's really an extreme trigger. And not all discussions should be constant controversy either - that's not good for students or a classroom environment. But I think if we don't structure for students how to debate things in a reasonable way, how to research arguments, how to learn to approach controversy and sort out what's an acceptable argument and what isn't... then that's a giant problem for society because it's something we desperately need of citizens.

[Farrar]

8 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Shutting down the topic because it might be triggering is, in my opinion, one of the main weaknesses in our high schools and colleges in this modern era.  Allowing an individual student to excuse themselves if they are personally unable to handle a topic is one thing - refusing to allow it based on perceived potential emotional responses in other students is exactly the wrong way to go about it.  

Agreed. I think there is a place for trigger warnings. I mean, it's fair for a rape victim to not have a discussion of rape sprung on them out of the blue. Previewing for students what the topics are and delineating times when more controversy will be handled seems reasonable and fair to help kids who might have personal connections. But in the end, once they're teens, they have to start meeting the difficult stuff and learning to deal with it in an academic way... even if then you go home and are emotional about it in a different context and space.

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

For me, I think the value in being able to discuss controversial issues like the ones you list above, is more important than protecting students' emotional reactions to those topics once they're teens. I do think allowing one side of an issue to cross a line into bullying or hate speech isn't okay. Nor is allowing debate to just carry on and on ad infinitem. Students should feel safe enough in classrooms and teachers should respect them enough and know them well enough to allow them to be excused if it's really an extreme trigger. And not all discussions should be constant controversy either - that's not good for students or a classroom environment. But I think if we don't structure for students how to debate things in a reasonable way, how to research arguments, how to learn to approach controversy and sort out what's an acceptable argument and what isn't... then that's a giant problem for society because it's something we desperately need of citizens.

 

I agree with you in theory, but after teaching high school English for many years, I don't think most teens are mature enough to do that, at least not in a traditional school environment.

And teens can't just leave.....there not only aren't that many places to go where they will be supervised, but when one student says, "this is a trigger!" 20 others all of a sudden want to leave the room.  

And then there are all the things the OP has already said about her son and how he is going about it and what his personality is.

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by DawnM

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Shutting down the topic because it might be triggering is, in my opinion, one of the main weaknesses in our high schools and colleges in this modern era.  Allowing an individual student to excuse themselves if they are personally unable to handle a topic is one thing - refusing to allow it based on perceived potential emotional responses in other students is exactly the wrong way to go about it.  

 

Sounds great.....in theory.

Edited February 7, 2019 by DawnM

[SquirrellyMama]

Here is the topic because I'm wondering if I should contact his teacher. I know there will be people who agree with him and people who disagree.

Unfortunately, I know that kids have been approached by classmates after class about presentations. My oldest had this happen after a government presentation on the #MeToo movement. Some boys harassed her after class. She finally had to get the teacher involved. 

So the topic is Transgender is a mental disorder. 

My youngest has a transgender friend and his sister is in my son's class.

I feel like this topic is too controversial for a HS class. I do not feel that he is mature enough to handle the fallout. I am imagining intense emotions on both sides if they discuss it after class.

Kelly

[Ellie]

3 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Here is the topic because I'm wondering if I should contact his teacher. I know there will be people who agree with him and people who disagree.

Unfortunately, I know that kids have been approached by classmates after class about presentations. My oldest had this happen after a government presentation on the #MeToo movement. Some boys harassed her after class. She finally had to get the teacher involved. 

So the topic is Transgender is a mental disorder. 

My youngest has a transgender friend and his sister is in my son's class.

I feel like this topic is too controversial for a HS class. I do not feel that he is mature enough to handle the fallout. I am imagining intense emotions on both sides if they discuss it after class.

Kelly

But this is at school, right? I'd let the teacher handle it.

[katilac]

Won't he have to do a rough draft? That would let the teacher see if he is approaching it correctly. 

Is there a debate portion, or questions and answers, or simply an oral presentation? 

[SquirrellyMama]

18 minutes ago, Ellie said:

But this is at school, right? I'd let the teacher handle it.

It is, and I'm trying really hard. I just hope his teacher knows what she's gotten in to. 

Kelly

[cave canem]

8 hours ago, CES2005 said:

Are people more mature in college?  🤐

I wouldn't count on it.  In community college my son led a group presentation about whether the SAT was an appropriate tool for college admissions, and people on the other side were crying about that.

[SquirrellyMama]

5 minutes ago, katilac said:

Won't he have to do a rough draft? That would let the teacher see if he is approaching it correctly. 

Is there a debate portion, or questions and answers, or simply an oral presentation? 

Yes, so I'm really hoping the rough draft catches anything that needs to come out.

Just a presentation no questions in class.

[Tanaqui]

17 minutes ago, cave canem said:

I wouldn't count on it.  In community college my son led a group presentation about whether the SAT was an appropriate tool for college admissions, and people on the other side were crying about that.

 

Which side was he on? I ask out of a sudden intense interest.

[cave canem]

12 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Which side was he on? I ask out of a sudden intense interest.

In that debate he said the SAT was OK, I think.  It's been a while.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

I agree with you in theory, but after teaching high school English for many years, I don't think most teens are mature enough to do that, at least not in a traditional school environment.

And teens can't just leave.....there not only aren't that many places to go where they will be supervised, but when one student says, "this is a trigger!" 20 others all of a sudden want to leave the room.  

And then there are all the things the OP has already said about her son and how he is going about it and what his personality is.

 

I was also in the classroom... we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think many adults aren't mature enough, but since this is literally society's last chance to try and teach these skills, it's on schools to try and do so.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Here is the topic because I'm wondering if I should contact his teacher. I know there will be people who agree with him and people who disagree.

Unfortunately, I know that kids have been approached by classmates after class about presentations. My oldest had this happen after a government presentation on the #MeToo movement. Some boys harassed her after class. She finally had to get the teacher involved. 

So the topic is Transgender is a mental disorder. 

My youngest has a transgender friend and his sister is in my son's class.

I feel like this topic is too controversial for a HS class. I do not feel that he is mature enough to handle the fallout. I am imagining intense emotions on both sides if they discuss it after class.

Kelly

I don't know if I personally would have allowed this topic, honestly. I would allow some about transgender people, including some that are negative - like, I'd probably allow a paper about why determining certain things by biology at birth is important. But I don't know that allowing students to say (fill in group) is (essentially crazy) is ever really going to work out. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Here is the topic because I'm wondering if I should contact his teacher. I know there will be people who agree with him and people who disagree.

Unfortunately, I know that kids have been approached by classmates after class about presentations. My oldest had this happen after a government presentation on the #MeToo movement. Some boys harassed her after class. She finally had to get the teacher involved. 

So the topic is Transgender is a mental disorder. 

My youngest has a transgender friend and his sister is in my son's class.

I feel like this topic is too controversial for a HS class. I do not feel that he is mature enough to handle the fallout. I am imagining intense emotions on both sides if they discuss it after class.

Kelly

 

Wow.

I can see that potentially going horribly wrong. If you don’t mind my asking, which side of the argument will he be supporting?

I would strongly encourage your son to ask for a different topic. Emotions are so high over this issue, and no matter which side your son takes, the backlash from his classmates could be quite severe.

I don’t think a high school presentation is the appropriate venue for trying to define what does and what does not constitute mental illness, and realistically, in addition to your son’s friend who has a transgender sibling, there could also be a closeted transgender student in your son’s classroom who could be hurt by either his presentation, the reactions of classmates, or both. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Catwoman

[DawnM]

59 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I was also in the classroom... we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think many adults aren't mature enough, but since this is literally society's last chance to try and teach these skills, it's on schools to try and do so.

 

I didn't say it shouldn't be taught.....just that it isn't as easy as just have a conversation and it will all be ok.  Kids, parents, and education as a whole has changed drastically in the 10 years I was staying home.  Going back has been a real eye opener.  But maybe your recent public high school English teaching has been different than mine.

[SquirrellyMama]

45 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Wow.

I can see that potentially going horribly wrong. If you don’t mind my asking, which side of the argument will he be supporting?

I would strongly encourage your son to ask for a different topic. Emotions are so high over this issue, and no matter which side your son takes, the backlash from his classmates could be quite severe.

I  think a high school presentation is the appropriate venue for trying to define what does and what does not constitute mental illness, and realistically, in addition to your son’s friend who has a transgender sibling, there could also be a closeted transgender student in your son’s classroom who could be hurt by either his presentation, the reactions of classmates, or both. 

Transgender = mental disorder is the topic and position he chose. I'm very sad he has chosen it.

I learned of his topic after they started the project. I'm still thinking about contacting his teacher. He doesn't want to pick a new topic and start over.

Completely agree with the bolded.

 

[Farrar]

40 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

I didn't say it shouldn't be taught.....just that it isn't as easy as just have a conversation and it will all be ok.  Kids, parents, and education as a whole has changed drastically in the 10 years I was staying home.  Going back has been a real eye opener.  But maybe your recent public high school English teaching has been different than mine.

Of course it’s not easy, I just meant it was worth the difficulty. It’s been a few years since I was in a public school classroom (social studies, not English, but obviously similar issues) and I know these things feel more fraught now - and maybe are more. I just think we can’t shy away. And that the only practical way to teach is to do it - even if there are limitations.

[DawnM]

27 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Of course it’s not easy, I just meant it was worth the difficulty. It’s been a few years since I was in a public school classroom (social studies, not English, but obviously similar issues) and I know these things feel more fraught now - and maybe are more. I just think we can’t shy away. And that the only practical way to teach is to do it - even if there are limitations.

 

I just don't think the particular assignment, without lots of previous discussion, it the way to do it, unless there is a lot the OP left out.

[SquirrellyMama]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

I just don't think the particular assignment, without lots of previous discussion, it the way to do it, unless there is a lot the OP left out.

Nope, it is a research project, and the kids pick their topics. 

Kelly

[ktgrok]

17 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Here is the topic because I'm wondering if I should contact his teacher. I know there will be people who agree with him and people who disagree.

Unfortunately, I know that kids have been approached by classmates after class about presentations. My oldest had this happen after a government presentation on the #MeToo movement. Some boys harassed her after class. She finally had to get the teacher involved. 

So the topic is Transgender is a mental disorder. 

My youngest has a transgender friend and his sister is in my son's class.

I feel like this topic is too controversial for a HS class. I do not feel that he is mature enough to handle the fallout. I am imagining intense emotions on both sides if they discuss it after class.

Kelly

My concern for him would be, what makes him think he has the expertise to comment on this? He's a higschool sophomore, so doubting he has a degree in psychology or psychiatry or behavioral health, which means he's in way over his head on this. 

It would be like him giving a paper on the proper treatment for a particular type of breast cancer or something...it's just way beyond his pay grade. 

Speaking about things of which you are not qualified to speak of makes you sound pompous. He can have opinions about these things, but unless he's done a LOT more research than the average high school student does for a school paper, it's not going to be a truly educated or expert opinion. 

[Faith-manor]

On 2/7/2019 at 8:54 AM, CES2005 said:

Are people more mature in college?  🤐

Some of them, but not all. The difference is the moderators. Professors have a lot more leeway in what they allow to be discussed, and the manner of discussion in college than high school. My professors did not suffer the antics of of the ignorant, the immature, nor the ill mannered. That is not to say that all professors do a good job. But the difference in environment and expectations does help.

[Faith-manor]

Op, I think that is a pretty darn difficult topic for a high school sophomore to adequately research and present on so I would caution your son highly on this. There so many places where this could go wrong, and the purpose of papers at the high school level is to learn to do the research, to write properly, to format and edit, and along the way pick up some knew knowledge. It isn't the same as a college paper where one might be encouraged to tackle such a topic and form an opinion because one would have access to PH.D's, health center professionals, a genders studies program, etc.

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

My concern for him would be, what makes him think he has the expertise to comment on this? He's a higschool sophomore, so doubting he has a degree in psychology or psychiatry or behavioral health, which means he's in way over his head on this. 

It would be like him giving a paper on the proper treatment for a particular type of breast cancer or something...it's just way beyond his pay grade. 

Speaking about things of which you are not qualified to speak of makes you sound pompous. He can have opinions about these things, but unless he's done a LOT more research than the average high school student does for a school paper, it's not going to be a truly educated or expert opinion. 

Isn't this going to be true for whatever topic a high school sophomore picks?  I remember in high school giving a paper on arthritis.  I didn't have an MD or anything that gave me the expertise to comment on it.  If a high school student does a paper on a flat tax being preferable to a progressive income tax, he is highly unlikely to be truly educated or have an expert opinion.