Clenching fists to show excitement - not autism?

[Ann.without.an.e]

ETA - Please don't quote, I may delete 😉 

 

I am sick and just parking here today so forgive all of my posts 😂

I don't really know what it is but DS has done this his whole life and when he was little it was super cute.  I still think that it is cute and I will explain why but now that he is going on ten years old I am a little concerned that he still does it. When he is excited or super happy, he smiles really big, clenches his fists, and shakes them.  Sometimes his whole upper body kind of shakes with excitement and sometimes he jumps up and down a little.  He is such a controlled child.  He carefully thinks through everything he says and does, shows emotions normally but not excessively, but this is something that seems to come from deep within and he can't seem to help it.  It is like the pure joy just overflows.  It is very endearing. If he really loves a movie and it is exciting he will sit here on the couch and clench his fists and smile really big. I was helping in a co-op class the other day and they were lining up to play a game, DS was super excited about It, and he was doing this repetitively so he still does it in groups and not just at home.  I have never said anything to him about it, and I am afraid that it would devastate him and make him self conscious.

Another mom looked at me (when she witnessed this the other day) and said "I didn't know he had ASD", to which I replied "he doesn't".  He just gets really excited and can't seem to hide it.

My mom used to always joke that he was like Sheldon Cooper because he was so well spoken and extremely bright, especially with math.  When he was only 2, I could hold up fingers and without counting them at all he could tell me the number.  He is way above his level in math.  He taught himself to read at 4. Other than being well spoken and smart, I can't see any ASD symptoms. If those are even ASD symptoms?  I honestly don't know 🤣  He is extremely compliant, easy to get along with, mature, loving, caring, kind...he is actually the ideal child.  He is a pure joy. This is not just my opinion, as any co-op teacher he has ever had says he is simply an exceptionally behaved, caring, and smart kid who gets along well with everyone.  He has a wonderful sense of humor. Other social clues seem normal. 

Now that I have spilled it all, should I be worried?  I'm a little concerned if this isn't corrected soon then he will be typecast or excluded by other kids or that others will think he is weird?  I don't have it in me to tell him to try not to show so much excitement.  I can't stand the idea of him being self conscious about it. 

Edited January 19, 2019 by Attolia

[MEmama]

I wouldn't say anything. He sounds like my son. Even terrific and bright kids come with quirks. :)

[IvyInFlorida]

I'm glad you posted this because I have basically the same question about my younger son.   My older son is on the spectrum, so I have some experience with it (boys are adopted and not genetic siblings) and I am fairly sure he doesn't have autism. He is, however, very precocious,  verbal, etc.   What I'm concerned about is the repetitive quiet whimpering noise he makes to self-soothe.  Sometimes he will make the noise as often as every 2 seconds or so.  He says it makes him feel good.  Before the whimpering habit, he chewed his shirt, and when he was a baby, he sucked his 2 middle fingers until he had ridiculous calluses.   

Hope someone can chime in about what these behaviors means in the absence of more overt autism symptoms.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't see the problem?  It isn't wrong to show excitement.  How would you like him to show it? 

My son with ASD is highly gifted and quirky but his specific Aspie tendencies are in how he sees the world (he doesn't really see social norms in the same way as NT people), his mental rigidity and his tendency to sensory overload.  This is simplifying it somewhat but I'm trying to say that it is a pervasive thing that affects all moments and are not just quirks. 

[Arcadia]

DS14 has the primary motor stereotypies (also called stereotypic movement disorder) of rocking back and forth, as well as hand flapping.  His public K-8 schools understand stimming so they aren’t alarmed. He is aware when people stare so it gets rarer as he gets older.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/neurology_neurosurgery/centers_clinics/pediatric-neurology/conditions/motor-stereotypies/index.html

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I don't see the problem?  It isn't wrong to show excitement.  How would you like him to show it? 

My son with ASD is highly gifted and quirky but his specific Aspie tendencies are in how he sees the world (he doesn't really see social norms in the same way as NT people), his mental rigidity and his tendency to sensory overload.  This is simplifying it somewhat but I'm trying to say that it is a pervasive thing that affects all moments and are not just quirks. 

Yes. They think differently in general. I describe it as having to learn social norms via instruction, like being human is a foriegn language to him. He doesn't just pick it up (actually...now that I think about it, he sucks at foreign languages too, lol. We spent 4 years trying to teach him spanish and he learned NOTHING). 

What you are describing sounds like a stereotypy. My DD had one, also when excited. She outgrew it mostly though, but now my DS6 has something similar to your DS. We don't think he has ASD as he doesn't have the global issues my older had that would suggest autism (although given his current issues we are no longer ruling anything out 100 percent). But I think it's just a stereotypy, which kids with ASD can have, but that alone isn't enough to say it is ASD. 

Children with primary motor stereotypies perform repetitive, rhythmic, fixed movements that don’t seem to have a purpose, but are predictable in pattern and location on the body. These movements are involuntary and typically last for seconds to minutes, appear multiple times a day, and are associated with periods of engrossment, excitement, stress, fatigue or boredom. Sometimes they’re misdiagnosed as obsessive-compulsive disorders or tics.https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/neurology_neurosurgery/centers_clinics/pediatric-neurology/conditions/motor-stereotypies/symptoms.html

Edited January 19, 2019 by Ktgrok

[katilac]

I wouldn't be that concerned for a not-quite-ten-yr-old, particularly one who is homeschooled 😋

My nephew's little boy, under 2, had a speech evaluation several months ago and the therapist was all over the fact that he also waved his arms when excited and liked to open and shut doors, he probably has autism. Before they could evaluate for that, he had the more extensive speech evaluation with the speech therapist who would actually be working with him. She said that jumping to autism because you see some behaviors that could be viewed as stimming is, to put it kindly, proof of inexperience, lol. You have to look at the whole picture and he did not have the other signs - he has a speech disorder, not a language disorder, which should have clued in the first evaluator, and a certain amount of odd gestures are typical in many children. Some grow out of it sooner than others, particularly if they have the peer pressure of school. Evaluating for 'stims' only, per this therapist, is a ridiculous jumping of the gun. 

So they just started speech therapy instead and yeah, he had dozens of words within a few weeks and no behaviors that made the clinic think autism. He absolutely does still wave his arms and open/shut doors, those simply aren't signs of autism on their own. 

His dad had the arm waving thing, too. I used to both clench my fists and press one fist against my mouth when excited or deep in thought. I actually did not grow out of either one until adulthood, I just learned to not do them publicly, lol. I've been at a job for a few months where I regularly see about 75 kids from 4 to 9, and there are plenty of these behaviors even in the 9s (most of them can keep themselves from actually jumping and such, but they are in a school setting and you still see them going to do something but catching themselves; they also learn more acceptable ways of doing a similar thing, such as the clenched fist goes under the chin in classic 'thinker' pose). When they are outside for free time, the level of flapping and jumping and twirling goes way up, lol. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I'm just popping in to say that I think your son sounds delightful.

One of my children used to bounce up and down on the balls of her feet while shaking her hands when she was excited. This tapered off at about age 12.

At a glance it maybe looked like a sign of ASD, but she was just wearing her heart on her sleeve. I think that her emotions bubbled over and needed a physical outlet. She still wears her heart on her sleeve now as a young adult, but it presents differently.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I'm just popping in to say that I think your son sounds delightful.

One of my children used to bounce up and down on the balls of her feet while shaking her hands when she was excited. This tapered off at about age 12.

At a glance it maybe looked like a sign of ASD, but she was just wearing her heart on her sleeve. I think that her emotions bubbled over and needed a physical outlet. She still wears her heart on her sleeve now as a young adult, but it presents differently.

Yup, some of us just feel things really really big. I have what I just realized is a stereotypy as well...I stick out and bite my tongue when really upset. I've learned not to do it public, but I still do it at home sometimes. I've done it since I was a toddler. 

So hand fisting is way better than sticking out your tongue!

[SamanthaCarter]

My nine year old does the exact same thing. It IS cute. She is aware she does it, but doesn’t seem to feel self conscious about it. There is NO WAY she is on the spectrum. I figure once it makes her self-conscious, she’ll quit. 

[PeterPan]

                                            Uniquely Human: A Different Way of Seeing Autism                                       This is Prizant's book and you might enjoy reading it. He explores the idea that autism behaviors ARE HUMAN BEHAVIORS but that it's the total package (the combination, the frequency, that they affect life) that becomes the autism picture. I also don't know if you've done the most sensible thing, which is just honestly sitting down with the DSM criteria and going through them. It's not cheating. It's just reality. You raised him and know him. Sit down at your computer with the criteria and go through them, one by one, writing out all the things he did that would fit under each of the criteria. As you dig in, you may have more than you realize. 

There's no way we can "clear" him here on the boards and say no, not on the spectrum. You definitely have some quirks there, and he's definitely bright. He's actually just coming into the most common age to be diagnosed for that kind of profile, and it's not shocking for kids with that high IQ ability to compensate not to be diagnosed into their teens or adulthood. 

What will happen, if he is on the spectrum, is discrepancies will become more apparent as his peers move on. He may start to notice differences for himself, or he may be masking, quietly copying and working to fit in, which would explain why his actions often seem so strangely intentional. He may be using his brains to cover it up. To find out if he's masking, you could simply ask him. Your best bet then would be time with a psych who gets ASD and gifted kids. There will be some on the Hoagies' Gifted list. Those kinds of discussions can also be about strengths, etc. so it's not like seeing a psych is all just a negative thing. 

If you make the case history now, recording your memories as you go through the DSM criteria, then he'll have that file if he ever wanted it in the future. Sometimes if someone pursues evaluation as an adult, they ask for that developmental info and the parents aren't around or have faded memories.

Edited January 19, 2019 by PeterPan

[ktgrok]

29 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

My nine year old does the exact same thing. It IS cute. She is aware she does it, but doesn’t seem to feel self conscious about it. There is NO WAY she is on the spectrum. I figure once it makes her self-conscious, she’ll quit. 

That's what the neurologist said about my DD, and it was true. Also true for me. 

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Yes. They think differently in general. I describe it as having to learn social norms via instruction, like being human is a foriegn language to him.

 

I think of it as a different dialect. 

[Moonhawk]

I could have written the exact same post about DS8. We did get him tested at 4 because one of his preschool teachers and a few other people said something about some things he did (completely normal behaviors, but they made me doubt it at the time). While they said I could try testing again at 6yo, they wouldn't diagnose something based on his current behaviors; sometimes kids are bright, quirky and cute in their own way. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Thanks, ya'll.  I knew that you would have wisdom to impart.  I have never questioned whether this kids has ASD until this mom asked me.  

Edited January 19, 2019 by Attolia

[BarbecueMom]

I have an "excited stim" (rapidly scrunching the back of my hair between my fingers, kinda like miniature hand flapping except on my head lol), and I'm not on the spectrum as far as I know.  I am self-conscious about it, but I tend to only do it at home and not out in public.  It's an anticipatory anxiety thing, but with happier stuff instead of a dread-anxiety reaction.  I used to happy-puke as a kid ("We're going to my favorite restaurant?  Awesome!  Yay!"  *BARF!*), so I'll take the hair-twitching and deal with the awkwardness of it.  DS10 has a bit of this quirk too.  DH was about to tie him to a chair (not literally of course) while they were playing D&D this morning, because he was just flailing all over the place.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, Attolia said:

Thanks, ya'll.  I knew that you would have wisdom to impart.  I have never questioned whether this kids has ASD until this mom asked me.  

I had plenty of well meaning people make me doubt perfectly normal (if advanced or quirky) things about DS when he was young.

We took him to speech therapy (utter disaster) when he was three, despite my mama instinct that he was fine ( it was clear to us that he was just on different developmental timetable than other kids--when you are doing math, reading, and designing an intricate wind powered car and explaining the relevant function of fuel cells in your design at age three, clear speech isn't necessarily much of a priority, especially when your parents understand you just fine and your friends don't care). 

Follow your wisdom, mama. Your son sounds wonderful, and you said yourself that the spectrum had never crossed your mind before. I have to think that by age 10, you'd know something was amiss if it truly was. 

Edited January 19, 2019 by MEmama

[Arctic Bunny]

I feel like I’d rather see a little boy clenching in excitement, rather than the apparently totally acceptable girl screeches *shudder*

[ktgrok]

40 minutes ago, arctic_bunny said:

I feel like I’d rather see a little boy clenching in excitement, rather than the apparently totally acceptable girl screeches *shudder*

oh my goodness, yess! My kids like to watch "That YouTube Family" on youtube, and the constant squeals of excitement from the girls, even them mom, make me BONKERS. I'm like, I'm sorry, but bath bombs or yogurt or whatever are NOT that exciting! In fact, I was so over it the other night I decided I needed an hour of the exact opposite of that - Antiques Roadshow, where someone can find out they have a million dollar vase and simply smile and say "well that's lovely". 

[Arctic Bunny]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

oh my goodness, yess! My kids like to watch "That YouTube Family" on youtube, and the constant squeals of excitement from the girls, even them mom, make me BONKERS. I'm like, I'm sorry, but bath bombs or yogurt or whatever are NOT that exciting! In fact, I was so over it the other night I decided I needed an hour of the exact opposite of that - Antiques Roadshow, where someone can find out they have a million dollar vase and simply smile and say "well that's lovely".[\b] 

How hilariously true!

[Farrar]

My boys were similar - they didn't do the fist clenching, but they had a totally weird affect where they would vibrate with joy like that and wave their whole arms when they were super excited. They did it forever. They did grow out of it around age 10 or so and did it less as time went on. I suspect if they hadn't been homeschooled, they would have "grown out" of it earlier just because of peer pressure. My boys were also super compliant and pretty controlled. I always tell people they were rule followers. They were the kids who could sit through a two or three hour show or museum experience easily at age 4 or 5, which I think is unusual.

I've worked with ASD kids. I knew my kids didn't have ASD. I mean, no other symptoms that would align.

[Arctic Bunny]

And goodness, the saying “vibrate with excitement” must have come from somewhere!

[alisoncooks]

Sounds normal to me.  I have a 12yo that displays similar excited behavior. 

I'm more baffled that someone thought it socially acceptable to make that comment to you. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, alisoncooks said:

I'm more baffled that someone thought it socially acceptable to make that comment to you. 

I guess I assumed the person making the comment was seeing more than just one thing. 

I think it's at least cautionary or reasonable to ask them what they saw. Maybe they'll back down or maybe they'll explain.

Or the person could have just been rude, lol. 

[PeterPan]

For the op, here's a pdf that explains the criteria and gives lots of examples.  https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening Tools/DSM-5(ASD.Guidelines)Feb2013.pdf  I was looking for a chart I've seen in the past that explores the differences in the support levels (1,2,3). I think it's really important to remember that what a dc looks like at 3 or 2 isn't the same as 1.

[Tanaqui]

1 hour ago, alisoncooks said:

Sounds normal to me.  I have a 12yo that displays similar excited behavior. 

I'm more baffled that someone thought it socially acceptable to make that comment to you.  

 

Without any context whatsoever other than my own experience, my first guess would be that this person likely has an autistic relative or three. And if that's the case, then they themselves are probably either autistic or on the broader autistic spectrum. Like, easily 90% of people who ask me openly or quietly ask my family if I'm autistic are in that position. (Most NTs never see it and seem to think it's polite to argue with me if I mention it. You're not being polite by saying I'm not autistic, you're being weirdly rude and dismissive and showing your ignorance at the same time. Don't do that.)

It is, therefore, quite possible that this person doesn't have the most nuanced grasp of your concept of manners and was just stating a fact or perhaps attempting, a little awkwardly, to engage in some mutual sharing.

Or, you know, they could just be a jerk. Only the OP has enough information to know for sure... and on that front, if you're not worried about your kid's development then you probably have nothing to worry about.

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, alisoncooks said:

I'm more baffled that someone thought it socially acceptable to make that comment to you. 

 

Many people has made comments about my kids quirks. Majority are teachers while some are parents with special needs kids who are just curious. No one who asked has any ill will that I can think of. 

From a news article on Temple Grandin https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/21/temple-grandin-half-of-silicon-valleys-got-mild-autism/

“The story of Temple Grandin, the woman diagnosed with autism at age 2 who went on to earn her doctorate in animal behavior, is remarkable because it is a rarity.

That is, unless you ask her.

Grandin, who will be speaking at two events on the Monterey Peninsula this week, is challenging the way the world views people with autism by saying her success is far from unique.

“Half of Silicon Valley’s got mild autism, they just avoid the labels,” Grandin said in a phone interview.”

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

I'm more baffled that someone thought it socially acceptable to make that comment to you. 

 

 

I have a bright, quirky 10-year-old.  I wish I had a dollar for every time someone has asked me if he has autism because he didn't behave in the way they felt 10-year-old boys should behave.   I get asked this all.the.time. and when I say "No, he is not autistic", the person asking this rude question then says "Have you had him tested?".  And I say "Yes, I have".  "Well, was it by a regular pediatrician or a specialist?"  "A dev. ped. tested him".  "Well, how long ago was it? Because now that he's older, you might get a different result from the testing, you know these tests are never very accurate when the kids are so young..."  "He doesn't have autism.  He was identified as gifted."  "Well, every child is gifted in their own way.  Besides, giftedness is usually part of autism blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I-watched-Rainman-once-so-now-I'm-an-authority-on-autism".   

This conversation happens at LEAST once a year, with all different people.      

For what it's worth, I clenched and shook my fists in excitement when I found out a Chik fil A was coming to my town.  I am 46 and don't have autism, lol.   

Edited January 20, 2019 by MissLemon

[City Mouse]

I agree with PeterPan. That behavior could be a sign of AU or it may not be.

AU is a spectrum disorder with people ranging from the non-verbal, rocking on the floor to people like Temple Grandin. 

Just be aware should any other difficulties occur. Sometimes the difference do not become so obvious until the person is older.

[ktgrok]

14 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

Sounds normal to me.  I have a 12yo that displays similar excited behavior. 

I'm more baffled that someone thought it socially acceptable to make that comment to you. 

I actually wish it was MORE socially acceptable to say something. A couple that is friends with my husband, and to a lesser extent me, have a son that I'm VERY suspicious is on the spectrum. HUGE red flags for it. But, it isn't acceptable to say, "hey....I think your kid might be autistic." The best we've done is when the husband said something about how difficult the son's behavior was my husband mentioned have him evaluated and suggested messaging me for advice. They didn't, so there it is. 

12 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

“Half of Silicon Valley’s got mild autism, they just avoid the labels,” Grandin said in a phone interview.”

Reminds me of the old joke: Now they call it Asperger's Syndrome, they used to call it "an engineer". 

[PeterPan]

12 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Many people has made comments about my kids quirks.

Just as an observation, that means the real answer is you don't know but it wasn't enough of an issue for you to pursue evals. 

The thing I would be concerned about with that is what you're missing, like what is so normal/common in your house that it gets overlooked. Sometimes pan out in the wash and sometimes for one of the kids there's enough going on that they'd benefit from some interventions. If it's coming up a LOT, that really raises your eyebrows. I'd just go through the reasons why it's coming up (what they're seeing) and see if any area needs some attention. Here's an article (free) that might interest you. It skips the whole diagnosis gig entirely and focuses on what actually needs attention by looking at profiles. You might find your dc naturally fits in one of them, which will give you a lot of info pretty quickly about potential weaknesses associated with that profile and what you might like to do or consider. https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=Social Thinking Social Communication Profile

[PeterPan]

19 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But, it isn't acceptable to say, "hey....I think your kid might be autistic."

Polite, NT people who are pretty sure of what they're seeing will say "Have you ever wondered..." and they'll drop it at that point. So the person who's more in their op's face is showing they have a few deficits themselves, lol. 

When I'm hanging with another parent and I want to let it come up, I usually just say something myself like Oh my ds is on the disability scholarship, blah blah and then they say what they want. But sometimes parents are really slow on the draw. I was hanging with this one mom once and the kid (ds' age) was reeking havoc and the mom was clearly on the spectrum herself. To her that dc actually wasn't that bad because he wasn't as bad as the ASD3 sibling, so the ASD1/2 kid wasn't getting evals or interventions. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, City Mouse said:

I agree with PeterPan. That behavior could be a sign of AU or it may not be.

AU is a spectrum disorder with people ranging from the non-verbal, rocking on the floor to people like Temple Grandin. 

Just be aware should any other difficulties occur. Sometimes the difference do not become so obvious until the person is older.

While it is true that Autism is on a spectrum, the highest pinnacle of ASD is not Temple Grandin.  She is still significantly affected versus someone like my ds who can "pass" as NT. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

While it is true that Autism is on a spectrum, the highest pinnacle of ASD is not Temple Grandin.  She is still significantly affected versus someone like my ds who can "pass" as NT. 

Very true. My oldest can pass as well. 

[DesertBlossom]

I have several siblings that do quirky things when excited. I admit I do sometimes as well. My sister gets quite embarrassed when you catch her doing it, but I think it's funny/quirky. Not a big deal.

[katilac]

On 1/19/2019 at 3:18 PM, BarbecueMom said:

 I used to happy-puke as a kid ("We're going to my favorite restaurant?  Awesome!  Yay!"  *BARF!*) 

 

"Should we take the kids to Panda Express tonight?" 

"No, I just cleaned the carpet!"

18 hours ago, MissLemon said:

    For what it's worth, I clenched and shook my fists in excitement when I found out a Chik fil A was coming to my town.  I am 46 and don't have autism, lol.   

 

Relatable. 

[katilac]

6 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Just as an observation, that means the real answer is you don't know but it wasn't enough of an issue for you to pursue evals. 

 

She stated that she did have an evaluation done. 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

 

She stated that she did have an evaluation done. 

I must have lost track of that. I also don't see it in this thread or in this post. But I think I'm fighting a bug and not seeing everything.

[Rosie_0801]

9 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

While it is true that Autism is on a spectrum, the highest pinnacle of ASD is not Temple Grandin.  She is still significantly affected versus someone like my ds who can "pass" as NT. 

 

Nice use of quotation marks there, Jean!
(If that sounds like sarcasm, it isn't.)

[katilac]

On 1/19/2019 at 5:01 PM, arctic_bunny said:

I feel like I’d rather see a little boy clenching in excitement, rather than the apparently totally acceptable girl screeches *shudder*

 

I live in a cruel, cruel world where both the boys and girls screech. *shudder* 

[Daria]

The way I imagine it is this.

The autism spectrum is a multidimensional continuum. It includes all of us.  It is a wonderful part of the diversity of the human race.  ASD describes people who are in the portion of the spectrum where the support and accommodations they need are significant enough that we consider them to have a disability.  You can't have autism without the need for support and accommodations that are different or more significant than the needs of other people who are otherwise similar.  By this I mean, of course your kid has support needs, because 9 year olds with and without autism  have support needs.  

What you're describing is behavior that people who work with autism describe as "stimming".  It's seeking sensory input to help one self regulate.  Everyone stims.  When I was a toddler, I sucked my thumb to help me transition from wake to sleep, or from crying to calm.  When I was a kid, and I had to walk somewhere, I'd focus on lines in my environment, walking along cracks or running my fingers along fences, as a way to control the impulse to run or to stop and play.  When I go to boring faculty meetings, I fidget with my pencil to stay awake.  But I don't have ASD.  Stimming alone isn't a symptom of ASD. 

What is a symptom of ASD, is when that stimming translates into support needs or the need for accommodations.  For example, if I'm a toddler, and my need to suck on my hands to stay calm is so intense that it interferes with eating, so that the parent needs to swaddle (supplying an alternative form of stim) to get the kid to eat?  That would be an example of a stim that requires accommodations.  If I'm a 10 year old, and I'm so focused on following lines that I'll follow one right into traffic, so someone needs to hold my hand on field trips?  That's an example of a stim that leads to a support need.  If I screech loudly instead of fidgeting with my pencil during faculty meetings, so that I need an ADA accommodation to watch remotely by camera from my classroom, well, you get the point.   Put together with other symptoms, and other support or accommodation needs, any of those things might point to an ASD.

I don't see anything in your post that says that your kid needs support or accommodation because he clenches his fists.  I don't see that it's unsafe (e.g. he'll clench his fists, even if he's holding hands with his sister, so tightly that he hurts her), or disruptive (note: I don't consider looking different a disruption.  People look different from one another.  But if his vibrating so intensely that he's knocking old ladies down in the grocery store when he sees his favorite cereal on the shelf, that might be disruptive) or interfering with his development (he can't join the other kids in games, because he just stands and clenches and vibrates when ever the ball comes near him, he can't do art because he likes art class so much that he can't unclench his hand to hold a pencil)?  Then that would a symptom that, if combined with other symptoms, could indicate an ASD.  

To be clear, that doesn't mean all stimming by people with ASD leads to the need for support or accommodation.  There are plenty of people who have other symptoms of ASD, and other support/accommodation needs, whose stimming works well for them.  That is, they've figured out ways either on or with help to use stimming to regulate their behavior very successfully.  So, they might do exactly what you describe your son doing when they are excited, but because they also have significant rigidity, and/or challenges with communication, and/or difficulty regulating when they are upset, and those characteristics require support or accommodation.  

I will also say that I am a big believer in "respecting" stims.  Stimming behavior represents high level problem solving, and it's usually a very effective way to meet someone's needs.  It makes sense to me that the person who is stimming knows their body and it's needs better than anyone, so that their solution is quite likely the best one.  To me, "it looks different" or "normal people don't do it" aren't reasons to redirect or change a stimming behavior.  When a stim does need to change, such as my example above of a toddler who won't take hands out of his mouth long enough to eat; or a teenager I work with who likes to grab hair and pull when he's excited, it's important to understand what the student is doing, and what need the stim meets, and to find a solution that meets the same needs.  That might include putting a weighted vest on the toddler at mealtime, to see if the extra proprioceptive input lessons the need for oral input, or in the case of my hair puller, I keep a soft puppet to hand, and redirect him to squeeze and pull on that.  

This is a very long way of saying -- don't worry about it!  Don't redirect the stim, don't make him feel bad, and don't get him evaluated.  Sorry to be so wordy.

[ktgrok]

Daria, that was an excellent explanation! I love the part about how swimming often is the best way to meet their needs! When I bite my tongue it is to avoid doing or saying something mean/angry, etc. 

[Daria]

On 1/20/2019 at 1:54 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

While it is true that Autism is on a spectrum, the highest pinnacle of ASD is not Temple Grandin.  She is still significantly affected versus someone like my ds who can "pass" as NT. 

 

Temple Grandin has built an emotionally and financially rewarding career around her passions, and in doing so has changed the lives of millions of animals, and the disability rights movement for the better.  She'll leave a legacy in both fields that will last long after she's gone.  

I have trouble seeing passing as more of an achievement or pinnacle than that.  

Jean, I'm pretty sure that you didn't mean it that way, so please don't take this as a criticism of you or your son.   But I felt that I had to reply to this, because I do think there are many people, including many parents of autistic children, who think less of Grandin because her speech patterns, routines and preferences are atypical; and who would rather their child pass than that they live a life like Grandin's. 

I was really pleased to see the language DSM 5 shift so that it now measures the severity of autism in terms of support needs, rather than in the terms of how atypical someone appears to others.  When we look at Grandin through that lens, her need for support from others is low.  That isn't because she isn't autistic, or she's less autistic.  It's because she has the intellectual ability, the financial resources, and the attitude towards her own disability that allows her to identify and meet her own needs, rather than relying on others.  If we're going to set a goal for young people with autism, it should be that they live lives like Grandin's.  Lives in which they do things that are important and interesting to them; lives in which they receive recognition and respect for their accomplishments, and earn a living wage in the process; and lives in which their needs are consistently met, and they have control over how the needs are met, rather than constantly being at the mercy of others. 

Most of the students with autism who I work with have co-occurring intellectual disabilities.  They will almost certainly never earn Ph.D.s, but that doesn't mean that they can't do what Grandin has done in terms of building a life around what is meaningful to them; or learning to understand and direct their own care.  To me, those should be the goals we keep in mind as we decide how best to support and educate them.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Daria said:

 

Temple Grandin has built an emotionally and financially rewarding career around her passions, and in doing so has changed the lives of millions of animals, and the disability rights movement for the better.  She'll leave a legacy in both fields that will last long after she's gone.  

I have trouble seeing passing as more of an achievement or pinnacle than that.  

Jean, I'm pretty sure that you didn't mean it that way, so please don't take this as a criticism of you or your son.   But I felt that I had to reply to this, because I do think there are many people, including many parents of autistic children, who think less of Grandin because her speech patterns, routines and preferences are atypical; and who would rather their child pass than that they live a life like Grandin's. 

I was really pleased to see the language DSM 5 shift so that it now measures the severity of autism in terms of support needs, rather than in the terms of how atypical someone appears to others.  When we look at Grandin through that lens, her need for support from others is low.  That isn't because she isn't autistic, or she's less autistic.  It's because she has the intellectual ability, the financial resources, and the attitude towards her own disability that allows her to identify and meet her own needs, rather than relying on others.  If we're going to set a goal for young people with autism, it should be that they live lives like Grandin's.  Lives in which they do things that are important and interesting to them; lives in which they receive recognition and respect for their accomplishments, and earn a living wage in the process; and lives in which their needs are consistently met, and they have control over how the needs are met, rather than constantly being at the mercy of others. 

Most of the students with autism who I work with have co-occurring intellectual disabilities.  They will almost certainly never earn Ph.D.s, but that doesn't mean that they can't do what Grandin has done in terms of building a life around what is meaningful to them; or learning to understand and direct their own care.  To me, those should be the goals we keep in mind as we decide how best to support and educate them.  

Pinnacle was the wrong term for me to use.  What I meant was that she is not the top bookend of the ASD spectrum.  By saying that I am not assigning more value to the "top" or less value to anyone who is more impacted.  But some people are more affected in terms of support needs.  And Temple Grandin is not someone who needs no supports from others.  (Neither is my son, btw - but not to the level that TG has described in her own books and speeches.)  I have worked for 34 years now with people with special needs.  I understand very well how to support and educate people with those needs. 

[stephanier.1765]

I'm on a couple of quilting Facebook groups and yesterday and grandmother posted a video of her grand daughter opening a gift from her brother. The brother had made a quilt for his sister and he was super excited. He was probably around the same age as your son and it was driving him crazy that the sister was taking so long to open his gift. He was jumping up and down, shaking his hands, making excited noises, and saying that he was over excited. The build up to the gift was just overwhelming his excitement button. He was adorable and seemed like any other kid super excited about something. And after reading the responses here, I think your little guy is in good company. 🙂