Funny story-involving the DMV & maybe I am not married after all

[Amber in SJ]

So my CA ID expired on my birthday at the beginning of July.  CA is attempting to align its standards with TSA standards by 2020, so you can either renew the easy way & go in to the DMV with your old ID and get a new one that will not be TSA compliant by 2020, or you can renew the hard way and go in to the DMV with a stack of documents that ID you as you and get what is called a REAL CA ID.

I decided to get a REAL CA ID, so I looked at the list and gathered my birth certificate, my SS card, a bill in my name that shows my current address (this was difficult,) my expires in 3 days old ID & off to the DMV I went.

Apparently if you are a married woman you can not get a REAL CA ID without a certified copy of your marriage license even if you didn't change your last name.  After 3 hours at the DMV I got to go home.

At home I couldn't find a copy of my marriage license anywhere.  Not in the fire safe with the other documents or the file cabinet with the copies.

I went online to the website of the county recorder's office, I downloaded the official form, took it to a notary to be notarized (did you know your license is expired, Ma'am?) and sent it off with a check and a self-addressed stamped envelope.

Three weeks later I received (in my self-addressed stamped envelope) a letter which explained that no record of my marriage or my having applied for a marriage license could be found in the year that I claimed to have been married.  They would be keeping my payment because they tried.  Because I indicated that I had been married in a different county, perhaps I should try that county.

I went to a different website for a different county recorder's office, downloaded the form, took it to the notary who looked at me with suspicion. Why did I need another copy of a marriage license from a different county?  Why am I trying to get multiple marriage licenses with an expired ID?  Again with the self-addressed stamped envelope and check payment.

5 weeks later I received a call from that county because they also have no record of my marriage.  The lovely person I spoke to is someone with whom I attended high school.  She informed me that she looked in the  month before and after the date I put on the form, but she just couldn't find it.  She told me she found all 3 of my sister's (not sisters') marriage licenses, but not mine, which was so strange because she thinks that her cousin was at my wedding, or at least at the reception.  She remembers that I got married to that boy I was dating in high school, right?  The one on the football team?  And am I still married to him?  She asked me who was responsible for turning in the paperwork after I got married.  I told her it was my mom.  She told me I should ask her if she hand carried it to the recorder's office in the county where I got married or if she mailed it to the county where I was living at the time.  I told her that would be difficult because my mom is deceased.  She blessed my heart and let me know that the county would be keeping my check because the payment is for the search and by golly she had searched.

I was at a loss.  I started having dreams where my Dad called me to say, "So we finally moved the furniture out of the bedroom and you'll never guess what we found in a big white envelope behind your mom's nightstand!"  Maybe I wasn't even married.  Maybe these past 28 years of "married filing jointly" taxes have been a lie. 

What now?  Should Dh & I have a re-commitment ceremony? I think I have seen this sitcom.

Four months after my ID expired, I received a letter from the county I started with, saying a clerical error in the spelling of my married last name at the time of the search caused my record to not come up on the computer, but now it has been found and if I would like to submit another notarized form and payment I can get a copy.

Maybe I will find a different notary.....

Amber in SJ

[scholastica]

Wow!! That is amazing. I think I might be inclined to request that they apply the previous payment to the new search since they can't spell.

[Arcadia]

I can totally sympathize. We made an appointment to get our REAL CA ID done in December and I didn’t realize we have to bring our marriage certificate. We do have our original marriage certificate with us. It’s our birth certificates that we don’t have with us but we do have valid passports thankfully. 

I didn’t see marriage certificate in the list of items to bring. My husband would be annoyed if he takes time off and have to go all the way home to get the certificate.

[JenneinCA]

I got to renew my drivers license this year too, but I took the easy way out.  I just got the non tsa compliant drivers license.  (By mail!)   I will use my passport for flying and hope the crazy at the dmv dies down soon.

 

[Amber in SJ]

18 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I can totally sympathize. We made an appointment to get our REAL CA ID done in December and I didn’t realize we have to bring our marriage certificate. We do have our original marriage certificate with us. It’s our birth certificates that we don’t have with us but we do have valid passports thankfully. 

I didn’t see marriage certificate in the list of items to bring. My husband would be annoyed if he takes time off and have to go all the way home to get the certificate.

I didn't see it either which is why I dared to darken the DMV doors without all my ducks in a row.

I don't have a passport, but I might get one now :)

Amber in SJ

[Arcadia]

17 minutes ago, Amber in SJ said:

I don't have a passport, but I might get one now ?

 

We did our passports at the USPS at Eastridge Center. It is walk in and they do passports even on Saturdays until 4pm. The staff there is definitely much faster than the Flora Vista DMV that I go to.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Arcadia

[GoodGrief]

When Arizona went to entirely computerized records of birth certificates, they changed my daughter's location of birth, which made things interesting when we needed a new copy of the certificate. Made me realize that these records are not necessarily infallible.

[Katy]

Hilarious.  One question.  Does a bless your heart in California have a different meaning than in the South?

[Farrar]

Even if you didn't change your name you have to prove you're married? But men don't??? How is that... not discriminatory? Like, I get if you've had a name change. But... otherwise? That seems really... wrong. Like, what?

[Wheres Toto]

NJ isn't TSA compliant but I've had to bring a ton of paperwork for years.  Birth certificate, first marriage license, divorce papers, second marriage license, current drivers license.  I have to have documentation for every name change, and my current marriage license isn't enough without the divorce papers.  And proof of address which was really hard since I moved into a house that dh already owned, so no utilities were in my name.  

Getting a passport was easier.

[Robin M]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

I can totally sympathize. We made an appointment to get our REAL CA ID done in December and I didn’t realize we have to bring our marriage certificate. We do have our original marriage certificate with us. It’s our birth certificates that we don’t have with us but we do have valid passports thankfully. 

I didn’t see marriage certificate in the list of items to bring. My husband would be annoyed if he takes time off and have to go all the way home to get the certificate.

Wait! What! We have to show proof we're married along with all the other stuff that's required. Urg!  Just went on the website and it's if your name has changed from birth certificate  you have to show proof of change of name so I guess all married women have to jump through extra hoops. Guess I better start getting all our documents lined up.  Thanks for letting me know.  Here's the Real Id Checklist questionnaire which provides all the steps for hoop jumping.

 

Amber, you really shouldn't have to pay again. Maybe there's someone to talk to who will waive the fee?  I hope.  Sorry you had to go through so much.  

Edited October 27, 2018 by Robin M

[Rachel]

Surely someone just misunderstood the requirements since it was new, why would you need a marriage license if you didn’t change your name?

 

19 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Even if you didn't change your name you have to prove you're married? But men don't??? How is that... not discriminatory? Like, I get if you've had a name change. But... otherwise? That seems really... wrong. Like, what?

 

[Farrar]

1 minute ago, Rachel said:

Surely someone just misunderstood the requirements since it was new, why would you need a marriage license if you didn’t change your name?

 

 

Bureaucracy is so cruddy. And there's nothing worse than its lowest level power wielding apparatchiks.

[Arcadia]

18 minutes ago, Robin M said:

 Here's the Real Id Checklist questionnaire which provides all the steps for hoop jumping.

 

I didn’t change my last name so marriage certificate isn’t required when I use the above questionnaire link.  I’ll still bring it along just in case as my husband and I are doing at the same appointment. 

ETA:

Property tax bill is acceptable as proof of address which is convenient as our utilities bills are all electronic bills. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Arcadia

[Tree Frog]

We went to get my 80yo mil a state issued ID after moving to Texas. Her CO license hadn't expired, but TX wouldn't accept the DL for an ID. We couldn't find the marriage license (they'd been married for 56 years before fil passed away 10 years earlier), so we brought other documents that proved her name: a social security card and DH's birth certificate, which clearly listed her first, middle, maiden, and married names. Those weren't good enough. We went back and forth to the DMV numerous times before we finally found her marriage license. I think it was a copy. I don't know that we ever found the original. The ladies there were probably taking pity on an old woman who had difficulty walking and was tired of having her Dil drive her back and forth!

Edited October 27, 2018 by wilrunner
Cleaned up autocorrect.

[Amber in SJ]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Hilarious.  One question.  Does a bless your heart in California have a different meaning than in the South?

I think it was in the "You poor dear," sense.

[Liz CA]

You must be so happy to know your children are not illegitimate after all...bless your heart. ?

[klmama]

 

16 minutes ago, Amber in SJ said:

I think it was in the "You poor dear," sense.

That's how I've always heard it used here in the Midwest.  However, I used it recently in a "poor dear" sense about someone else, and everything laughed, which I interpreted to mean they thought I meant it in the Southern way.  No, if I'd meant it that way, I would have been a lot clearer about it.

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, wilrunner said:

We went to get my 80yo mil a state issued ID after moving to Texas. Her CO license hadn't expired, but TX wouldn't accept the DL for an ID. We couldn't find the marriage license (they'd been married for 56 years before fil passed away 10 years earlier), so we brought other documents that proved her name: a social security card and DH's birth certificate, which clearly listed her first, middle, maiden, and married names. Those weren't good enough. We went back and forth to the DMV numerous times before we finally found her marriage license. I think it was a copy. I don't know that we ever found the original. The ladies there were probably taking pity on an old woman who had difficulty walking and was tired of having her Dil drive her back and forth!

When we moved to Texas, to be near my mil who was in assisted living in San Antonio, we decided it would be best to get a handicap parking permit (why my bil hadn't gotten one for her in the over 10 years he and his wife had been taking care of things is still a big question). She of course had no drivers license. She had no Texas ID. She had her military ID and I believe her birth certificate (or whatever the alternative is for folks who don't have one). It was quite an ordeal, because once Mr. Ellie figured out where to get the permit, it turned out that mil had to have a Texas ID, because her military ID wasn't enough, so they fought their way through that, multiple trips, trying to get together the papers and whatnot for the ID, then going back to wherever it was that the permit was issued, because seems to me that the driver license and the permit didn't come from the same place. :-(

[maize]

Oh what a story!

[maize]

I'm befuddled as to why a married woman who has not changed her name would need a copy of her marriage license...

 

[Liz CA]

4 hours ago, Katy said:

Hilarious.  One question.  Does a bless your heart in California have a different meaning than in the South?

 

It's rather rare to have your heart blessed in CA. I am kind of jealous of Amber...

[Tree Frog]

5 hours ago, Ellie said:

When we moved to Texas, to be near my mil who was in assisted living in San Antonio, we decided it would be best to get a handicap parking permit (why my bil hadn't gotten one for her in the over 10 years he and his wife had been taking care of things is still a big question). She of course had no drivers license. She had no Texas ID. She had her military ID and I believe her birth certificate (or whatever the alternative is for folks who don't have one). It was quite an ordeal, because once Mr. Ellie figured out where to get the permit, it turned out that mil had to have a Texas ID, because her military ID wasn't enough, so they fought their way through that, multiple trips, trying to get together the papers and whatnot for the ID, then going back to wherever it was that the permit was issued, because seems to me that the driver license and the permit didn't come from the same place. ?

I think getting the handicapped placard is why mil needed the state ID. I don't remember specifically, but there was some reason we jumped thought the hoops for that ID. And yep, we had to go to a completely different office to get the placard.

Edited October 27, 2018 by wilrunner

[Ellie]

5 hours ago, wilrunner said:

I think getting the handicapped placard is why mil needed the state ID. I don't remember specifically, but there was some reason we jumped thought the hoops for that ID. And yep, we had to go to a completely different office to get the placard.

It was terribly confusing (especially the part about my mil's military ID not being a valid form of identification).  In California (and other states), anything to do with motor vehicles happens at the DMV. In Texas, you get your driver license (and I.D.) from DPS (Department of Public Safety) but you register your vehicle with the county assessor's office. o_0

[gardenmom5]

talk about bureaucracy . . .  I suppose they wouldn't have taken "just" a US passport, even though it's good enough for TSA . . . .

[Faith-manor]

This is all so nutty, and so expensive. Criminals determined to get ID's have very ingenious ways of falsifying the necessary documents, so in the end, I don't think all of this makes the ID"s issued necessarily more accurate.

And it really discriminates against low income folks because of having to pay what can be rather large fees, depending on the state, to get these documents.

The other thing that bugs me is that it is discrimination against married women. It requires an additional layer of documentation that single women and men do not have to provide. 

I personally believe that if the state is going to require all of this, then there should be a federal law that requires every state to provide the documents for free. I think that especially when it comes to voting rights, if you require legal ID, then that ID should be free because otherwise it is a "poll tax" on folks that cannot afford $35.00 for the state ID, and $10 - $20 per document to get all of the necessary items together to get the state ID or driver's license.

[gardenmom5]

I knew a dear sweet, and now departed, lady who married a man with ONE LETTER difference in their last names. (but pronounced the same.)   their grandparents?great-grandparents, were from the same town in sweden.

even in the 1930s . . . . she had to argue with these power-hungry peons to change her name after she married.   even though she kept spelling out the difference, the peon just wouldn't register.

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

This is all so nutty, and so expensive. Criminals determined to get ID's have very ingenious ways of falsifying the necessary documents, so in the end, I don't think all of this makes the ID"s issued necessarily more accurate.

And it really discriminates against low income folks because of having to pay what can be rather large fees, depending on the state, to get these documents.

The other thing that bugs me is that it is discrimination against married women. It requires an additional layer of documentation that single women and men do not have to provide. 

I personally believe that if the state is going to require all of this, then there should be a federal law that requires every state to provide the documents for free. I think that especially when it comes to voting rights, if you require legal ID, then that ID should be free because otherwise it is a "poll tax" on folks that cannot afford $35.00 for the state ID, and $10 - $20 per document to get all of the necessary items together to get the state ID or driver's license.

personally - I think that is why they're doing this.  they want to make it onorus  so the whole thing will get repealed.

[Amber in SJ]

To be fair, this has been an ongoing problem for me for the past 28 years.

I got married while in college, and I was the first in my family to go to and graduate from a four year university.  I wanted that diploma to have the name I started with on it, so I didn't change it for the first few years.  Once I graduated and went to work, it seemed like a hassle to change it, so I didn't.

A couple years later when I became an at home mom, I figured it was time to change it so I would have the same last name as my kids.  Unfortunately, Dh's last name is two words, so a hyphenation would have been awkward.  I had already put my last name as one of the kids' middle names so I did that with my own.  Now I had one first name, two middle names and a two word last name on my ID & SS card.  This was fine until the last time (10 years ago) I had to renew my ID.  When I got it in the mail it had my first name correct, but now I had three middle names including the first word of my last name and my last name was only the second word of my last name.  The thought of returning to the DMV & fixing it was just too much, so I let it be.  The only time it has been an issue is the rare occasion when I get on an airplane.  And even then it really only matters that the name on the ticket matches the name on the ID, so Amber "second word of last name," has taken a few flights in the past 10 years.  Interestingly, my FIL's wife has the same problem; her ID only has the second word of our shared, two word married name as her last name.  The DMV refused to change it when she went in with her marriage certificate, because on her marriage certificate, someone made a mistake and took out the space so the last name is one word, which in their minds made it a completely different name.

So there I was with a birth certificate that said one name, a bill that said another name (married name only,) a SS card that had all my names and an ID that had all the right names, but not in the right places. 

The moral of the story might be; if your spouse has a difficult last name, consider keeping your own :)

Amber in SJ

[Faith-manor]

Amber, I think that keeping one's birth surname is a good idea. DD didn't change hers when she married. She was moving to another state, and using state reciprocity to get her medic license in the new state. Trying to also change her name, meant at the same time the new state would be getting documents from Michigan, she'd be trying to change all of those documents. Not good. And it was a lot of documents, state driver's license, passport, medic license, national registry, social security...and if any one of them didn't get processed in a timely manner, then there would be a not matching document and delay the process of getting her new medic license and starting work.

I had issues with the social security administration not processing my name change - though they had six months - prior to tax season. I dogged the local office, and was quite the squeaky wheel, but nope. Did.not.do.their.jobs. Then we sent in our tax return, and got dinged because I didn't think about it and signed with my married name and not maiden so my social security number name didn't match the return. It was a nightmare. Then I applied for a job that required documentation of my college degree, and didn't realize that they expected that degree to have been re-issued in my new last name. 

If I had it to do over again, I'd have never have adopted dh's surname. It's a crazy maker for women that men do not have. My sister took her husband's name, he ended up being an abuser, got divorced and for a variety of reasons needed to go back to her maiden name, had all the crazy and cost of making that happen. So when she remarried, she didn't change it. I asked her how that went down with her new hubby, and she said that in France they no longer have this cultural expectation so it never occurred to my brother in law to think that she would change her name. And it would have been an even worse set of headaches because of being an ex-pat....passport, visa, university, international driver's license, .......

 

[mamakelly]

That’s so weird. I got my CA REAL id in August and I didn’t have to show my marriage certificate. I brought my passport though, maybe I didn’t have to have a marriage cert with a passport?

[klmama]

11 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Then I applied for a job that required documentation of my college degree, and didn't realize that they expected that degree to have been re-issued in my new last name. 

I had no idea that was even an option.  Is it common?

[Arcadia]

13 hours ago, Amber in SJ said:

The moral of the story might be; if your spouse has a difficult last name, consider keeping your own :)

 

When we were doing our passports, the USPS lady did give us a weird look because my MIL, mom and I all kept our last names. Which was kind of weird because chinese typically kept their last names after marriage because people would address us as Mrs husband’s last name or Mdm our last name and the USPS lady is chinese. My american born chinese friends kept their last names after marriage. 

‘My husband was often addressed wrongly as Mr my last name by my kids’ instructors because they remember my last name but not my kids’ last name. 

[underthebridge]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:35 PM, Farrar said:

Even if you didn't change your name you have to prove you're married? But men don't??? How is that... not discriminatory? Like, I get if you've had a name change. But... otherwise? That seems really... wrong. Like, what?

Exactly. 

[Joules]

On 10/26/2018 at 10:54 PM, klmama said:

 

That's how I've always heard it used here in the Midwest.  However, I used it recently in a "poor dear" sense about someone else, and everything laughed, which I interpreted to mean they thought I meant it in the Southern way.  No, if I'd meant it that way, I would have been a lot clearer about it.

I have to defend us Southerners! We use "Bless Your Heart" in multiple ways and most of the time it is the first below, a sincere expression. Once people learned of the other way, they think that is all we mean...LOL!  As a note, think of it like languages that use different tones to make the same word mean different things. Though not a feature of English, I think it occurs at times in "Southern" English.  

From Wikipedia

Quote

"Bless your heart" is a phrase that is common in the Southern United States.^[1][2][3] The phrase has multiple meanings. It can be used as a sincere expression of sympathy or genuine concern. It can be used as a precursor to an insult to soften the blow. It is also sometimes used to mean "you are dumb or otherwise impaired, but you can't help it" by individuals who wish to "be sweet” and do not wish to "act ugly".^[4][5]

 

[Katy]

On 10/28/2018 at 9:23 AM, texasmom33 said:

Yeah, I had never ever heard it in an insulting or back-handed way until this forum. I also learned here that yes ma'am can be taken as snarky as well. I still find it all baffling. And cynical. Oh well. I'm glad it was said in a kind hearted way to the OP. 

Glad to hear you're still officially married OP!  That is one crazy story. 

 

(bolding mine)

It's not snarky the way snarky, insulting, or back-handed is in the North. It's more like... you're required to be respectful in the South, but no one is required to have a positive opinion of the people you're required to be respectful of. In the North if you think someone is being an idiot people are more likely to just call them an idiot, or otherwise be equally as rude as they are being stupid.  In the South, that would NEVER be okay.  So if they're acting like idiots, you use "Bless your heart," as a way to both be respectful and, depending on tone, also express disapproval. It communicates that you respect them as a human being but you disagree with something they are doing or saying. The tone is what matters, not the phrase. But that's difficult to communicate on the internet.

[fairfarmhand]

On 10/28/2018 at 9:01 AM, Joules said:

I have to defend us Southerners! We use "Bless Your Heart" in multiple ways and most of the time it is the first below, a sincere expression. Once people learned of the other way, they think that is all we mean...LOL!  As a note, think of it like languages that use different tones to make the same word mean different things. Though not a feature of English, I think it occurs at times in "Southern" English.  

From Wikipedia

 

Yes!

[Ravin]

On 10/26/2018 at 6:06 PM, Amber in SJ said:

So my CA ID expired on my birthday at the beginning of July.  CA is attempting to align its standards with TSA standards by 2020, so you can either renew the easy way & go in to the DMV with your old ID and get a new one that will not be TSA compliant by 2020, or you can renew the hard way and go in to the DMV with a stack of documents that ID you as you and get what is called a REAL CA ID.

I decided to get a REAL CA ID, so I looked at the list and gathered my birth certificate, my SS card, a bill in my name that shows my current address (this was difficult,) my expires in 3 days old ID & off to the DMV I went.

Apparently if you are a married woman you can not get a REAL CA ID without a certified copy of your marriage license even if you didn't change your last name.  After 3 hours at the DMV I got to go home.

At home I couldn't find a copy of my marriage license anywhere.  Not in the fire safe with the other documents or the file cabinet with the copies.

I went online to the website of the county recorder's office, I downloaded the official form, took it to a notary to be notarized (did you know your license is expired, Ma'am?) and sent it off with a check and a self-addressed stamped envelope.

Three weeks later I received (in my self-addressed stamped envelope) a letter which explained that no record of my marriage or my having applied for a marriage license could be found in the year that I claimed to have been married.  They would be keeping my payment because they tried.  Because I indicated that I had been married in a different county, perhaps I should try that county.

I went to a different website for a different county recorder's office, downloaded the form, took it to the notary who looked at me with suspicion. Why did I need another copy of a marriage license from a different county?  Why am I trying to get multiple marriage licenses with an expired ID?  Again with the self-addressed stamped envelope and check payment.

5 weeks later I received a call from that county because they also have no record of my marriage.  The lovely person I spoke to is someone with whom I attended high school.  She informed me that she looked in the  month before and after the date I put on the form, but she just couldn't find it.  She told me she found all 3 of my sister's (not sisters') marriage licenses, but not mine, which was so strange because she thinks that her cousin was at my wedding, or at least at the reception.  She remembers that I got married to that boy I was dating in high school, right?  The one on the football team?  And am I still married to him?  She asked me who was responsible for turning in the paperwork after I got married.  I told her it was my mom.  She told me I should ask her if she hand carried it to the recorder's office in the county where I got married or if she mailed it to the county where I was living at the time.  I told her that would be difficult because my mom is deceased.  She blessed my heart and let me know that the county would be keeping my check because the payment is for the search and by golly she had searched.

I was at a loss.  I started having dreams where my Dad called me to say, "So we finally moved the furniture out of the bedroom and you'll never guess what we found in a big white envelope behind your mom's nightstand!"  Maybe I wasn't even married.  Maybe these past 28 years of "married filing jointly" taxes have been a lie. 

What now?  Should Dh & I have a re-commitment ceremony? I think I have seen this sitcom.

Four months after my ID expired, I received a letter from the county I started with, saying a clerical error in the spelling of my married last name at the time of the search caused my record to not come up on the computer, but now it has been found and if I would like to submit another notarized form and payment I can get a copy.

Maybe I will find a different notary.....

Amber in SJ

 

At that point, I think I'd send a sternly worded letter indicating that the clerical error was THEIR fault and you already paid, so please send you your copy. I would send that letter to the clerk, and to whoever the clerk answers to.

[forty-two]

Reading this thread has made me happy that moving from a non-compliant state to a compliant one made getting a REAL ID automatic and (thankfully) painless.  (It was so straightforward, especially compared to the stories here, that I thought that surely our new state must not be compliant yet.  But I looked it up, and upon finding out it was, I double- and tripled-checked that my new id is indeed REAL ID compliant.  It seems to be - has the spiffy gold star and everything.) 

In our old state, I kept worrying that the extensions would run out and we'd be stuck needing a passport just to fly domestically.  Or, assuming they finally managed to achieve compliance (they are at least trying now), we'd have had to make a special trip to get them, etc., etc.  Really glad I magically ended up with a REAL ID because of the move.

[shawthorne44]

I moved my very very unusual maiden name to my middle name when I changed my name.   It has made life so much easier.   I know of at least twice it saved me hassle because I could see the bureaucrat about ready to make demands and I'd point out that my maiden name was right there (pointing), and then all was well.  Of course, if my maiden name was Jones that wouldn't have worked.  

We are flying somewhere domestic this summer.   I think I might get a passport.   I've had them, so hopefully it won't be too hard.