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FT RV'ing/Update: Tiny House!


Lang Syne Boardie
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For or those new to the thread, we are probably rejecting the RV idea due to climate. Now considering a dry cabin on the property, with composting toilet, wash station, and mini-fridge. Meals and showers at the main house during normal family hours, or showers at the YMCA near campus.

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#3 son would like to buy a used RV and park it in our driveway, while he attends undergrad locally. Here are the reasons that is a good idea:

1. We have a good relationship and he has his own room here, but living at home didn't go well for his brother; the house layout just doesn't work. There's one bathroom in the hall with the bedrooms, and college students coming home after midnight, and construction workers getting up at 5 am, was a disaster. We couldn't be quiet enough for each other. So we'd like to avoid a repeat.

2. Ds is very likely to get a full merit tuition scholarship at local schools (third student of mine to do so), but it won't cover room and board. There's really no cheaper way for him to go to school than to commute. If not for housing costs, he could graduate debt-free. 

3. Ds has a physical disability that makes it unlikely he'll be able to work to fully support himself, while in school. It's legally an impairment - the type of thing for which he will probably have a parking placard and a backup wheelchair - but if he is able to "baby" his feet and legs, he can get around normally and work. I'm just clarifying that if there's such a thing as disability housing grants or funds, he probably won't qualify. Also, he's a good student but not freakishly fast at studying. So doing what his brother did, renting off campus housing with roommates, might be out of reach because he won't be able to work enough to pay the bills. (I would pay his rent if I could, especially since I won't have to pay for college, but I can't afford to.)

4. Parking an RV in our driveway should not be a big deal, as far as zoning and neighborhood approval, as long as everything's neat. It's not illegal. Old, established neighborhood, 1/2 acre yards, no HOA.

5. He could work this year (high school senior) to save up for it, and then resell after undergrad for probably the same amount of money. So his net price on housing would be negligible.

Cons:

I've not lived full-time in an RV, as an adult. I wouldn't want to miss something big, regarding heat, sanitation, safety...there is a truck stop with an RV dump station, just down the road. And a friend mentioned skirting and insultated/heated hoses, and possibly using an electric heater. But I don't know how feasible this all really is, during a midwestern winter. Of course, he could come in the house for very extreme weather or storms.

Thoughts? Would you do it? Would this be a massive mistake? Ds LOVES the idea. 

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Would he need to plug it into your outlet to get his electricity? I know very little about an event but know campsites often offer electrical hook up. If so, how much will that add to your bill? Where would he get water? Heat in the winter might be a big issue. 

Hope it works out for him, but first I’d  probably try earplugs for the college kid/construction worker if they can’t sleep with some noise

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6 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Would he need to plug it into your outlet to get his electricity? I know very little about an event but know campsites often offer electrical hook up. If so, how much will that add to your bill? Where would he get water? Heat in the winter might be a big issue. 

Hope it works out for him, but first I’d  probably try earplugs for the college kid/construction worker if they can’t sleep with some noise

 

He could use our electric, and dh could probably run water to it. 

We can all sleep with some noise, we have raised four boys in this small house with everyone sleeping well. LOL But the bathroom and front door and kitchen are all so close that you can't help but wake up if someone is going through an entire morning or bedtime routine. The one most affected was me, waking up when dh does, in the morning, but then waking up to listen to who was coming in at 1 am. Not enough hours of uninterrupted sleep, and we have minor children still, so I'm not going to use earplugs in case somebody needs me.

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You’re right about the earplugs- you want to be able to hear if someone needs you. 

Sounds like the water and electricity won’t be a problem so it might work. Does an rv have to be registered and insured? 

Yeah, Axl Heck was my first thought!

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I think it would be very challenging to stay anywhere near comfortably warm in an RV during a midwestern winter. Some RVs are more insulated and suitable for winter use than others (usually listed as having a “winter package” or similar wording), but none are great. The ones that are better would likely be out of the price range of a typical college student unless he got really lucky and found a great deal. The coldest nights we ever spent in our Class A were in the mid to upper 20s. We went through propane like crazy on those nights. Electric heaters help a little but aren’t sufficient if it’s very cold. Freezing water lines would be a big concern. The water lines in some RVs aren’t much bigger than a thick straw, so it doesn’t take much for them to freeze. I’d want heated tanks. If the waste tanks freeze they can’t be dumped.

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Just now, Pawz4me said:

I think it would be very challenging to stay anywhere near comfortably warm in an RV during a midwestern winter. Some RVs are more insulated and suitable for winter use than others (usually listed as having a “winter package” or similar wording), but none are great. The ones that are better would likely be out of the price range of a typical college student unless he got really lucky and found a great deal. The coldest nights we ever spent in our Class A were in the mid to upper 20s. We went through propane like crazy on those nights. Electric heaters help a little but aren’t sufficient if it’s very cold. Freezing water lines would be a big concern. The water lines in some RVs aren’t much bigger than a thick straw, so it doesn’t take much for them to freeze. I’d want heated tanks. If the waste tanks freeze they can’t be dumped.

 

Yikes. We've been seeing zero and a bit below, the past few winters. That extreme is only for a month or so; maybe if he does this he could winterize it right before the severe weather came on, and move into the house for awhile. 

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1 minute ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

Yikes. We've been seeing zero and a bit below, the past few winters. That extreme is only for a month or so; maybe if he does this he could winterize it right before the severe weather came on, and move into the house for awhile. 

No way he’s going to be able to live in an RV if it’s anywhere near zero. I wouldn’t do it for more than a night or two if it was much below 40. But then I’m not a young college boy. ? 

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Just now, Pawz4me said:

No way he’s going to be able to live in an RV if it’s anywhere near zero. I wouldn’t do it for more than a night or two if it was much below 40. But then I’m not a young college boy. ? 

 

I know there are people who stay year round at a fishing lake in our neighborhood, but I'll bet they've souped up their RVs to full-time trailer level, with insulation and fixed heaters and such. Which won't work if he needs to be hauling it to the dump station.

He's going to be a college boy, but he's the wiry, gristly type with an ouchy skeleton. I don't think freezing housing will work for him.

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I had friends in college who lived in a converted school bus.  They wanted to sell us the bus when they left the country for a year abroad but we aren't quite that bohemian I guess and we passed.  They survived the winter in it in Spokane, which does get pretty cold but not 0 degree cold for very long.  More like 3 months with an average low in the 20-25 degree range.  

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We had a neighbor doing something like this with their dd. It was in yard, not driveway, and seemed to work well for all involved  

But we are PNW, so not the freezing issues. There are compost toilets available for RVs IIRC, and DOUBLE DOODIES if those could help with freezing weather. 5 gal water jugs and shower in the main house or at college gym might be better than running water out in winter. 

The biggest concern I would have would be the condition of the RV, both things like roof leaks, motor if it were the type that integrates vehicle; and also formaldehyde outgassing from materials it is made of. 

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OK, this idea is not looking good. I just researched our area's average highs and lows, and as many as FOUR months of the year, during the school year, would probably be too cold and harsh.

Edit: Maybe July in this state is not the best time to make plans for winter. We are roasting right now! Hard to remember December!

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8 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

I know there are people who stay year round at a fishing lake in our neighborhood, but I'll bet they've souped up their RVs to full-time trailer level, with insulation and fixed heaters and such. Which won't work if he needs to be hauling it to the dump station.

He's going to be a college boy, but he's the wiry, gristly type with an ouchy skeleton. I don't think freezing housing will work for him.

Most RVs have propane furnaces. But RVs in general are poorly insulated, so they gobble propane like crazy in cold weather. If he could keep it parked he probably could do a lot to beef up the insulation. I think it would be harder to do since he’ll have to move it to a dump station. 

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We winter camp so if he does it, he wants an artic/4 seasons package ( different companies use either one of these two names).  Our heater is propane and does very well when it is 0 or below. I recommend he also get an oil filled electric heater from Walmart.  Incase he runs out of propane in the night, these heat the camper well. If he plans to use the water, heat tape on the lines.  There are some wonderful blogs on how to live full time in the winter.  Google them. If it is still around, there was an older couple who did it in Montana.  Great advice from them.  

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There is a group of people that do live in rvs/vans/trailers full time, and some of those do winter in cold climates. There is even a sub-set that stealth camp in cities. There are several who post videos on YouTube. Cheaprvliving is a good place to start. He gives lots of practical advice on nomad living and has done many interviews with all kinds of people who live in a variety of vehicles. 

This is one of my secret goals in life- to live mobile an travel around the country for several years. 

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8 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

How about the garage?  I've seen them made into rooms for the college kid, then converted to a grandparent or guest suite.

 

We've got another kid in the garage room. LOL He doesn't have plumbing or kitchen out there, just a large bedroom. The two get along fine (and shared a bedroom for half their childhood) but they will be on very opposed sleep schedules. The boy in the garage is a plumbing apprentice, up at 5am and in bed by 10pm through the week. This is the one child of ours who may live with us for quite some time, as an adult. 

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10 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

What about building a tiny house? With a composting toilet, and he could shower in the main house? Would be easier to insulate I'd imagine. 

 

This is what we're researching right now. He could also shower at the YMCA - there is one near each of his possible college options. He could swim and shower early in the morning, before class, on weekdays. 

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13 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

This is what we're researching right now. He could also shower at the YMCA - there is one near each of his possible college options. He could swim and shower early in the morning, before class, on weekdays. 

 

An option, if he wants free rooms no biard, is to align with the working people schedule in the house. A college kid doesn't have to be out late during the weekday.  If he is out late, however, he could stay somewhere else for the night.

I assume he can stay up however long he needs to if he's physically home. 

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2 minutes ago, 2squared said:

 

An option, if he wants free rooms no biard, is to align with the working people schedule in the house. A college kid doesn't have to be out late during the weekday.  If he is out late, however, he could stay somewhere else for the night.

I assume he can stay up however long he needs to if he's physically home. 

 

DS#1 tried that; it kept happening that the study groups for his major would meet at midnight, of necessity. This was due to jobs and campus duties related to their major - it's a commuter school, mostly; many of the students take classes, go to a job, then come back for study groups. Ds was the music director for the campus chapel, which held services at 9pm on Thursdays (the idea being to schedule it for after the last evening class). He had to do music practice on Tuesday evenings. So on those two nights, he didn't even begin to study until 10:30pm, and usually his project partners were also involved with chapel service, and they'd work together.

Since I never went to college, before any of mine went, I assumed that it was possible to keep a "normal" schedule. But it wasn't. Ds wasn't unreasonable for still being at the school library at midnight, or for not starting a study group until 10:30 or 11. There are only so many hours in a day, and commuter students have off campus jobs AND on-campus jobs, so they are frequently left with late evenings for study time. The wee hours until about 7:30am are time for sleeping, because there are no classes, jobs, or study groups during those hours. Being awakened at 5am by the construction workers getting ready, would not work for the college kids, anymore than being awakened at 1:30 or 2am by the college kids coming home is good for the construction workers.

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OK, research is showing that dry bunkhouses or cabins plus "outhouses" (modernized with composting toilet and wash station) are a thing. The survivalists have figured it out. I just asked DH if he thought we could build a snug little cabin and that type of outhouse, or just build a "bathroom" in the cabin, for the same price as a used RV. He said we could. (He is handy.) This may be the answer! We are going to look into it. I would love to help ds have some independence, while still being at home, and solve our colliding schedules problem. I really like the idea of building a cabin instead of trying to modify an RV.

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Just now, Tibbie Dunbar said:

OK, research is showing that dry bunkhouses or cabins plus "outhouses" (modernized with composting toilet and wash station) are a thing. The survivalists have figured it out. I just asked DH if he thought we could build a snug little cabin and that type of outhouse, or just build a "bathroom" in the cabin, for the same price as a used RV. He said we could. (He is handy.) This may be the answer! We are going to look into it. I would love to help ds have some independence, while still being at home, and solve our colliding schedules problem. I really like the idea of building a cabin instead of trying to modify an RV.

 

Would the little cabin be legal in your neighborhood?

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Just now, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

DH says almost certainly, but he will check before building. 

 

That’s good news.

I am having so much fun reading this thread because I feel like I’m getting a behind-the-scenes look at one of those tiny house shows! If you guys actually build the cabin, I hope you’ll keep posting in-progress pictures of it so we can all follow along. ?

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4 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

OK, research is showing that dry bunkhouses or cabins plus "outhouses" (modernized with composting toilet and wash station) are a thing. The survivalists have figured it out. I just asked DH if he thought we could build a snug little cabin and that type of outhouse, or just build a "bathroom" in the cabin, for the same price as a used RV. He said we could. (He is handy.) This may be the answer! We are going to look into it. I would love to help ds have some independence, while still being at home, and solve our colliding schedules problem. I really like the idea of building a cabin instead of trying to modify an RV.

 

This sounds like a terrific solution!

 

 If you do this, would you be willing to share your plans and experience with it? My guess is quite a few families who have a college kid at a local college, or kids starting jobs and still living at home have similar issues with sleep/wake time differences so that everyone can get needed sleep. 

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2 hours ago, Caroline said:

It sounds like a good plan to me, but I’m no expert. (Didn’t Axl Heck live in an RV in The Middle?) I hope you find a great solution for everyone. I am always impressed by your ability to find solutions. 

The middle was my very first thought!

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Yessss! County code says one ADU (accessory dwelling unit), max 720sf, is allowed. Various rules on that, but nothing onerous. We do not have to put it on wheels, which is what one does if an ADU is not allowed.

edit: Evidently, in 2016 a new ordinance was made that declared single dwelling property owners have a right to one secondary dwelling on their property. This was meant to help address the problem of insufficient affordable housing options for families' changing needs. And this is a low COL area! 

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3 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

For or those new to the thread, we are probably rejecting the RV idea due to climate. Now considering a dry cabin on the property, with composting toilet, wash station, and mini-fridge. Meals and showers at the main house during normal family hours, or showers at the YMCA near campus.

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I would also consider a microwave and toaster/toaster oven as well.  - at least my boys would demand one.   I've always had only toaster ovens.  they demanded I get a toaster.  (they're incoming college srs, but currently living at home.)  or will food be mostly in the house?

 

how do you do a wash station?   I've seen the one's at some fairs where they have sinks with running non-potable water.  they have takens inside that can be manually taken and filled and empty.

would you have bottled water/other for him for drinking?  even one of those 5 or 10 gal thermos things.  it could be refilled from the house as needed.

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8 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

OK, research is showing that dry bunkhouses or cabins plus "outhouses" (modernized with composting toilet and wash station) are a thing. The survivalists have figured it out. I just asked DH if he thought we could build a snug little cabin and that type of outhouse, or just build a "bathroom" in the cabin, for the same price as a used RV. He said we could. (He is handy.) This may be the answer! We are going to look into it. I would love to help ds have some independence, while still being at home, and solve our colliding schedules problem. I really like the idea of building a cabin instead of trying to modify an RV.

 

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Would the little cabin be legal in your neighborhood?

My understanding is that putting it on wheels of some kind, even if you have no intention of moving it help to get around the legalities. At that point it is technically a camper, not a permanent structure. 

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8 hours ago, Pen said:

 

This sounds like a terrific solution!

 

 If you do this, would you be willing to share your plans and experience with it? My guess is quite a few families who have a college kid at a local college, or kids starting jobs and still living at home have similar issues with sleep/wake time differences so that everyone can get needed sleep. 

He might even be able to monetize a blog or youtube channel about it! And a youtube video can easily be turned into a podcast as well. 

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8 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

DH says almost certainly, but he will check before building. 

Definitely check, and if the local officials do give the okay, be sure to have something in writing.

I live pretty rural, where .5 acre lots are considered tiny.  No building intended for habitation is permitted to be under 700-something square feet (some exceptions for mobile homes, but then the have added requirements) and must be connected to waste and water systems to code. And they have to be a certain distance from one another while maintaining all of the same setbacks.  Non-permanent buildings are only allowed for up to 30 days.  Our zoning is pretty permissive overall, but they're strict as heck when it comes to actual dwelling space.

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9 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

DS#1 tried that; it kept happening that the study groups for his major would meet at midnight, of necessity. This was due to jobs and campus duties related to their major - it's a commuter school, mostly; many of the students take classes, go to a job, then come back for study groups. Ds was the music director for the campus chapel, which held services at 9pm on Thursdays (the idea being to schedule it for after the last evening class). He had to do music practice on Tuesday evenings. So on those two nights, he didn't even begin to study until 10:30pm, and usually his project partners were also involved with chapel service, and they'd work together.

Since I never went to college, before any of mine went, I assumed that it was possible to keep a "normal" schedule. But it wasn't. Ds wasn't unreasonable for still being at the school library at midnight, or for not starting a study group until 10:30 or 11. There are only so many hours in a day, and commuter students have off campus jobs AND on-campus jobs, so they are frequently left with late evenings for study time. The wee hours until about 7:30am are time for sleeping, because there are no classes, jobs, or study groups during those hours. Being awakened at 5am by the construction workers getting ready, would not work for the college kids, anymore than being awakened at 1:30 or 2am by the college kids coming home is good for the construction workers.

 

I'm just going to say, I managed to get through a bachelor's and law school without participating in study groups more than a handful of times, and those weren't late at night. I built daytime study hours into my class schedule, found someplace on campus with minimal distractions, and did my studying and homework then. Even when I did study in the evenings, I would get to bed at a reasonable hour. I was a commuter student (I also had a small child and day care hours plus (in college) my spouse being on 2nd shift seriously limited what hours I had to myself for studying. So not being able to mold a schedule to better fit with other household members is really more a matter of not wanting to, than true necessity.

 

That said, keeping his own small home on your property sounds like a great way to bridge your son to living independently; that's something I hope to do for my DD eventually (she likely won't be going to college, and I don't know that she'll be able to work full time, either). The tiny house sounds great!

 

 

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12 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

He could use our electric, and dh could probably run water to it. 

We can all sleep with some noise, we have raised four boys in this small house with everyone sleeping well. LOL But the bathroom and front door and kitchen are all so close that you can't help but wake up if someone is going through an entire morning or bedtime routine. The one most affected was me, waking up when dh does, in the morning, but then waking up to listen to who was coming in at 1 am. Not enough hours of uninterrupted sleep, and we have minor children still, so I'm not going to use earplugs in case somebody needs me.

So is it you or the brothers whose sleep is disrupted?

I'm not following. #1 son...married and not at home

#2 son...in garage

#3 son might potentially have a schedule that might keep (who?) awake

#4 son...I'm assuming is the minor child but you wrote minor children (plural)

 

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7 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

So is it you or the brothers whose sleep is disrupted?

I'm not following. #1 son...married and not at home

#2 son...in garage

#3 son might potentially have a schedule that might keep (who?) awake

#4 son...I'm assuming is the minor child but you wrote minor children (plural)

 

 

"Was" - past tense, when ds#1 was still at home. I said we still have minor children (plural) because both younger boys were minors when ds#1 was home, and they are both still minors right now. Ds#3, who is the rising senior, will not turn 18 until later this fall. I was trying to explain why I didn't use earplugs before and why I won't use them in the fall, without explaining this whole paragraph about ds#3 having been one of the two minor children when ds#1 was home, but that he's still a minor, but that it'll just be his little brother left so I'll be listening for him but I won't be listening for ds#3 in his backyard cabin plus he will be 18...so I just left it pluralized, since I was discussing how we tried various ideas in the past. 

If ds#3 lives at home during college, and if he winds up with a crazy schedule like his brother had, he would probably disrupt the sleep of his dad and me, and possibly that of his little brother. We are all still in the small house where the bedrooms, bathroom, kitchen, and noisy front door are all too close together. We didn't go away or get different housing just because two boys grew up.

Obviously, as a family that has been raising children since 1996 and teens since 2003, all boys, we are not used to a silent house. But we've learned through experience that if we can keep the house still from about midnight to 5am on weeknights, everybody can get enough uninterrupted sleep to get by.

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19 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

"Was" - past tense, when ds#1 was still at home. I said we still have minor children (plural) because both younger boys were minors when ds#1 was home, and they are both still minors right now. Ds#3, who is the rising senior, will not turn 18 until later this fall. I was trying to explain why I didn't use earplugs before and why I won't use them in the fall, without explaining this whole paragraph about ds#3 having been one of the two minor children when ds#1 was home, but that he's still a minor, but that it'll just be his little brother left so I'll be listening for him but I won't be listening for ds#3 in his backyard cabin plus he will be 18...so I just left it pluralized, since I was discussing how we tried various ideas in the past. 

If ds#3 lives at home during college, and if he winds up with a crazy schedule like his brother had, he would probably disrupt the sleep of his dad and me, and possibly that of his little brother. We are all still in the small house where the bedrooms, bathroom, kitchen, and noisy front door are all too close together. We didn't go away or get different housing just because two boys grew up.

Obviously, as a family that has been raising children since 1996 and teens since 2003, all boys, we are not used to a silent house. But we've learned through experience that if we can keep the house still from about midnight to 5am on weeknights, everybody can get enough uninterrupted sleep to get by.

So to sum up...

It will be a 4 person household with 1 person who might possibly maybe have a schedule that perhaps is different than others in the house.

It sounds like 99.99% of working class America (that is hyperbole but it does sound a typical family).

I'd be more worried that heat ing an outbuilding would be dangerous and expensive enough that no money would be saved. So I'd do everything I could to ensure near silent arrivals and departures and soundproof the sleeping areas. 

Does #4 have issues that he can't get out of bed and find an adult if he needs help at night?

 

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He would definitely have water jugs, mini fridge, microwave, hot plate. He likes to cook (and is on a special medical diet), so he can also cook in the main house anytime. He can also do laundry here.

To address the late night study group (or need to be at the college library) one more time, I know that adults can figure things out as the necessity arises. But my kids are not parents of small children, they are first generation college students, and I want them to do what works without too much priority placed on what pleases the folks at home. If ds#3 finds himself in a situation where he is working a couple evenings and then going back to study, like ds#1 had to do, then that's what will happen. He won't answer to our curfew as the primary consideration. 

He's in a different major, plus he can't work as many jobs as his brother does while still in school. Maybe none of this will even matter, because he will be home by midnight through the week, and might as well have stayed in his childhood bedroom. But if that's the case, it's still worth doing, for his independence without debt.

2squared said upthread, "If he expects free room and board, he'll have to adapt to the family schedule." Well, he doesn't expect anything. He is not a spoiled or entitled young man. If the RV had been purchased, he'd have been the one buying it. If the cabin is built, he will be the one paying for materials and building it with help from his dad and brothers. If we had no place he could stay, he would probably not go to college rather than take out excessive unsecured loans to support himself.

All of the boys are committed to little or no debt in their twenties. Ds#1 prefers to work to support himself and pay college expenses while in school. (The RV option was open to him, as well.) Ds#2 is a skilled labor apprentice who gets paid. Ds#3 might live in a cabin in the backyard, that he bought and built, and work on the weekends for school and car expenses. We are all happy to help each other as we can.

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If money is the issue, and you don't know how much it will cost until you are actually doing it, it might not be a good plan.

If you can't afford to safely heat the building in winter, then you're back to where you are now, minus all the money you spent. Which I'd guess would be in the thousands of dollars.

 

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