Math used in Public Schools k-6

[bethben]

We lived in two districts that used Everyday Math, and the district where we live now uses Go Math.

 

For what it's worth, Common Core math ideas came from seeing the success in other countries (like Singapore) and trying to apply those methods here. Only they really messed it up :-( In the hands of law makers and textbook publishers, and under the traditions of a quagmired school system, the end products are clunky and miss the mark. Go to the source, like Singapore Primary Math, and USE the HIG and manipulatives, and you will have a much more streamlined and much more effective math program.

 

I have taught two of my children Singapore math at home.  Go Math is NOTHING like Singapore math.  I sooo wish they had picked the real thing.  Messed up indeed.

Edited November 3, 2017 by bethben

[bethben]

My aunt teaches in a district that is in some southern suburb of Chicago.  The ONLY subject they have a textbook for now is math.  And it's not likely to last another year or two she says. 

 

Not only are they getting rid of textbooks in my dd's charter school, they are not providing the technology for children to bring home to access them.  So, imagine a household with one computer and four children who need it to access their textbooks after school.  It's a mess around here.  And yes, we are trying to figure out other options. 

[Homebody2]

I'm pretty sure many of our schools don't use a textbook. This is becoming increasingly common, by the way. I've seen some stuff about how it's terrible for kids, but I think this is the direction many schools are moving because the cost of these programs keeps rising and the standards keep changing and there are so many "free worksheets" online that many schools are just not buying anymore.

This is just awful to hear. There is an endless amount of curriculum switching that happens in schools. It's one of the reasons I quit teaching after 10 years. During those 10 years, I used 3 different math curriculums, not by my choice. It was incredibly difficult to teach with so many changes (each curriculum was written from a different philosophical perspective), and it was so frustrating!

 

There are many teachers in my family, and we have a running joke about which teaching method is now the "new" method being used in their schools. These "new" methods are just old methods that cycle through and are repackaged as the shiny, new breakthrough in teaching.

[SanDiegoMom]

My oldest daughter did four different math curriculums in three different elementary schools. One was teacher taught, one was Everyday Math, then Math Expressions, then the teacher created his own math book. She then went on to having to retake Algebra twice and Algebra 2 twice. She still managed to make it to calculus, but only because she had one great teacher in 11th to 12th grade that was able to teach the material well.  Ugh.

 

My younger dd did math expressions for k-2.  It wasn't terrible, but she did not get a really good number sense and the homework problems often jumped around and were unclear. She ended up hating math. In homeschool from 3-5 we did Beast Academy with a lot of handholding, and are wrapping up sixth grade with Singapore. I would have done Singapore the whole time if I could go back, as it has done the most for my concrete thinker, but she really enjoys math now and did love the beasts a lot. 

 

Math is one of reasons I homeschool. 

[boscopup]

My local school uses Go Math. The virtual school one of my kids did (vía Connections) used Envision Math.

[Farrar]

This is just awful to hear. There is an endless amount of curriculum switching that happens in schools. It's one of the reasons I quit teaching after 10 years. During those 10 years, I used 3 different math curriculums, not by my choice. It was incredibly difficult to teach with so many changes (each curriculum was written from a different philosophical perspective), and it was so frustrating!

 

There are many teachers in my family, and we have a running joke about which teaching method is now the "new" method being used in their schools. These "new" methods are just old methods that cycle through and are repackaged as the shiny, new breakthrough in teaching.

 

Part of the thinking behind this no-text approach (aside from the monetary aspect) is that teachers should teach from the standards and not the text. They should find the resources that fit the standards and apply them the best they can.

 

I personally think that if you give a teacher time to hone their curriculum over a few years and don't do more than tweak the standards, that it's not a terrible approach. I used to teach high school history - the textbook was cruddy and I mostly developed my own materials. If I'd stayed longer and been given more freedom to do that with just the standards, I think it could have been good. But... I don't see this working well for math. I just think it's labor intensive for no reason. When I was teaching history, I might need to write half a dozen questions or find one reading. With math, finding, vetting, and creating the number of sequentially challenging problem sets seems prohibitive. And by pulling resources from different places, you're ensuring that you don't get the same level of interconnectedness in the math.

 

I'm sure some wonderful teachers are making this work or hoarding old texts they like. But oy. What a mess overall.

 

It's also a rich district vs. poor district thing. The tests and the textbooks are often written by the same companies now. To do well on the tests, you need the current edition of the textbook by the same publisher - it's pretty much the only way to game a test like the PARCC. So rich districts ante up. Poor districts can't. So they try to teach to the standards. And even if they do manage to do a good job, they're still at a disadvantage without the benefit of the special phrasing clues and so forth that are placed in the expensive textbooks. It's all part of a piece, I think.

[Soror]

I think it varies here. I think some use MiF. I'm using MiF with dd2, I used it through 1st with dd1, I like it well enough although it is certainly different than the way I was taught it generally makes sense to me.

 

My SIL is in a poor district and teaches 1st, she makes her own curriculum but mostly just works with the kids with manipulatives, she doesn't do many worksheets. From what I've seen she is an awesome teacher. 

[greenbeanmama]

Math Trailblazers

 

I was just scrolling through this thread, and thought you said "Math Tranquilizers"...

[Lecka]

Wow, this is disappointing.

 

My parenting experience: so far with kids in 3rd and 7th, no calculator usage. I bought a recommended calculator for my 7th grader from the supply list, but he brought it home and says they aren't using it until later in the year.

 

But a problem I see is math facts.

 

With my 7th grader, when he was younger he had so much trouble with math facts. He was supposed to know them by the end of 4th grade. He ended up meeting this but at the time he seemed very behind with them, he seemed to take a really long time. In 2nd grade he did poorly enough with timed sheets that his teacher agreed they were counter-productive for him and he didn't have to do them timed.

 

Then fast forward to 6th grade. All of a sudden in the beginning of 6th grade there is a big push for math facts to be ready for middle school. There are prizes involved, actually good prizes. There is time set aside in school to work on them (which whatever they had in younger grades wasn't enough for my son and he had to do a lot at home). And then my son was the 2nd boy in his grade to get the grand prize for knowing all four operations! Which was shocking after him being so behind and struggling with it when he was younger.

 

And then now we have moved, and from what my son says a lot of kids in his class don't know their math facts, and are lost a lot of the time.

 

My daughter learned her addition/subtraction facts much easier than my older son, she knew them entering 3rd grade (we use Reflex Math at home). Now she is beginning mult/div.

 

They seem to do more for her at school for math facts here than at the old school. But it's hard for me to tell when she is naturally better at learning them and my older son is naturally worse at learning them.

 

Anyway though I think all the kids I went to school with in the 1980s learned all the math facts, we took weekly tests all through 5th grade if I remember. I think that is a difference I see and I don't know if kids forget the math facts or never learned them?

[EmilyGF]

I'm going to add - 

 

My husband teaches at a university that admits 7.9% of applicants. It is consistently in the top 10 or so ranked universities.

 

And hubby was looking at math my 7th grader was doing last night and said, "My students couldn't do this. They've been so indoctrinated into the idea that math is hard they wouldn't even try."

 

Now, he's got good students who are amazing. But the level of math incompetence among the elite is flooring.

 

Don't follow the public school route!

 

Emily

Edited November 4, 2017 by EmilyGF

[mom2scouts]

Our public school just dumped Investigations for Bridges in Mathematics. I've only seen samples, but some looks good and some looks more complicated than necessary.

[Crimson Wife]

 

Now, he's got good students who are amazing. But the level of math incompetence among the elite is flooring.

 

I went to a top 5 university and took through Calc 3 with nothing less than a B. I scored a 700 on the math portion of the SAT (pre-recentering) and a 720 on the math portion of the GRE my senior year of college.

 

I learned a completely embarrassing amount of math from Right Start B & C and Singapore PM. :blushing: I could calculate the right answer from "plug-n-chug" but had no clue why the algorithms worked.

 

[arliemaria]

I'm going to add - 

 

My husband teaches at a university that admits 7.9% of applicants. It is consistently in the top 10 or so ranked universities.

 

And hubby was looking at math my 7th grader was doing last night and said, "My students couldn't do this. They've been so indoctrinated into the idea that math is hard they wouldn't even try."

 

Now, he's got good students who are amazing. But the level of math incompetence among the elite is flooring.

 

Don't follow the public school route!

 

Emily

 

Would you share what maths you are using at home?

[EmilyGF]

I'm going to add - 

 

My husband teaches at a university that admits 7.9% of applicants. It is consistently in the top 10 or so ranked universities.

 

And hubby was looking at math my 7th grader was doing last night and said, "My students couldn't do this. They've been so indoctrinated into the idea that math is hard they wouldn't even try."

 

Now, he's got good students who are amazing. But the level of math incompetence among the elite is flooring.

 

Don't follow the public school route!

 

Emily

This isn't to say most homeschoolers are doing well - they aren't. 

 

Just choose a solid program, do it every day, have a good attitude, and you'll be fine. Most don't do this.

[mytwomonkeys]

My daughter has been in PS since 6th grade. She’s currently in 10th. I think 6th grade was the only time she had a textbook (it was the year before Common Core began).

 

My son went to PS from 5th through 7th grade & is back home. He never had a text book (he started PS the first year of common core here).

 

All homework is worksheets and online assignments. The schools here heavily depend on Khan Academy for homework. My son also frequently was assigned tenmarks (online and common core aligned).

 

I’m thankful they didn’t have a math book. Their backpacks were SO heavy without it - I can’t imagine one more thing to carry.

[Earthmerlin]

Ours uses Go Math

Our MD district uses Go Math too.

[....]

Not only are they getting rid of textbooks in my dd's charter school, they are not providing the technology for children to bring home to access them.  So, imagine a household with one computer and four children who need it to access their textbooks after school.  It's a mess around here.  And yes, we are trying to figure out other options. 

 

That's ridiculous!  Our family of 7 only has one computer.  And our internet doesn't work well half the time!  Our neighbors were constantly getting their internet turned off, because they couldn't afford it.  We live in a new area where no one has built houses before, so there are no choices when it comes to internet/cable services and they are ridiculously expensive.  A lot of people here live in very remote areas and I'm not even sure how they get internet - satellite internet, maybe??  *shrug*  

 

I don't like this reliance on technology and the internet for school.  It seems very wrong.   

[meganrussell]

Go Math-- also in the truly horrible category. They try to push concepts on students that if they would only sequence it better, it would make more sense. Don't even bother. Horrible horrible horrible. My dd is using this in public school now. For concepts, in fourth grade, they "taught" up to multiplication two numbers by two numbers and are "trying" to teach long division. So far, they have students skip counting until they get to large three digit numbers and making multiple large circles containing up to 15-20 smaller circles to teach division two numbers by one number.

This is exactly what my 4th grade daughter is doing in public school. It's ridiculous. I was teaching her the "traditional" way - the NORMAL way, of knowing your facts - and her teacher told her not to do that, to draw the dang circles and skip count the multiples. It takes so long to do one problem. She forgets the steps she's on because she's spent five minutes skip counting to God knows what. I hate it.

[EKS]

Ours uses My Math in K-5, Connected Math in 6-8, and Holt Common Core aligned (Berger) for Algebra I, Geometry, and Algebra II.  Precalculus is Larson, regular calculus is Stewart, AB Calculus is Larson/Edwards, and BC Calculus is Finney.

Edited November 5, 2017 by EKS

[bethben]

This is exactly what my 4th grade daughter is doing in public school. It's ridiculous. I was teaching her the "traditional" way - the NORMAL way, of knowing your facts - and her teacher told her not to do that, to draw the dang circles and skip count the multiples. It takes so long to do one problem. She forgets the steps she's on because she's spent five minutes skip counting to God knows what. I hate it.

I have a dd who is easily distracted. So imagine she’s counting her little circles inside her big circle, gets distracted, and doesn’t remember where she is...then drawing all those little circles and finding she doesn’t have enough room in the big circle. Or, yes! Let’s skip count by threes until you get to 126. That makes sense! And then you have that kid who makes a mistake around #63 and the whole problem is wrong. And to find where they make the mistake is laborious. I am teaching her the correct way and really could care less what the teacher says. She wanted to know why I was teaching her differently so I had her do a problem my way and then their way. She was done much much faster and I was still counting my baby circles. She understood. She tries their weird ways at school and gets very one of them wrong and then comes home thinking she’s stupid at math. I teach her the correct way on homework and we practice every night. I refuse to have her handicapped in math thinking she’s stupid because the publisher doesn’t know how to teach math well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 5, 2017 by bethben

[AmandaVT]

Our public school just dumped Investigations for Bridges in Mathematics. I've only seen samples, but some looks good and some looks more complicated than necessary.

 

Our local school uses Terc Investigations and it looks horrible. 

[bethben]

There are the conspiracy theory people who believe the elite are dumbing down education so that only the elite at fancy private schools control every aspect of America. Honestly, I’m having a harder and harder time not believing it. Here we have a whole generation of kids that either don’t know how to do math due to confusing teaching or if they are decent at it think they are “bad†at math. I don’t want to believe the conspiracy theory people. I really don’t— but what I am seeing at a school that is considered great really makes me question my reluctance.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 5, 2017 by bethben

[Tanaqui]

Here we have a whole generation of kids that either don’t know how to do math due to confusing teaching or if they are decent at it think they are “bad†at math.

 

This has been ongoing since at least the 1950s, probably earlier. There was never a time in American history when the average American was "good at math". At most, they were good at manipulating symbols for arithmetic - but they didn't understand why those algorithms worked or what the manipulations really meant beyond the most basic. And their teachers, at least in elementary, didn't really understand either and couldn't do more than drill the algorithms they knew. Rote memorization of algorithms for common arithmetic problems is not the same as being "good at math".

 

All this circle counting isn't the "incorrect" way. It's a training wheels method. The idea is to teach the kids WHY the algorithm works and what it all means, so that when they move past arithmetic they still understand what they're doing. If all you're doing is teaching algorithms, then eventually they hit a point where they can't memorize more algorithms - or they can, but they can't pick which one is the right one to use in any given situation. Understanding takes longer to teach, but it also lasts longer.

 

It's like with reading. It's faster and easier to just memorize every word individually, until you are trying to read complex works with unfamiliar words. Then your memory gives out. It takes longer to learn phonics, and many parents are dismayed when their child who could "read" a book perfectly is now stuttering and slowly sounding out each and every word, but phonics lasts longer. You don't need to memorize the spelling of each of the 40,000 odd words in an adult vocabulary, you just have to memorize a few rules and letters.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Tanaqui

[bethben]

This has been ongoing since at least the 1950s, probably earlier. There was never a time in American history when the average American was "good at math". At most, they were good at manipulating symbols for arithmetic - but they didn't understand why those algorithms worked or what the manipulations really meant beyond the most basic. And their teachers, at least in elementary, didn't really understand either and couldn't do more than drill the algorithms they knew. Rote memorization of algorithms for common arithmetic problems is not the same as being "good at math".

 

All this circle counting isn't the "incorrect" way. It's a training wheels method. The idea is to teach the kids WHY the algorithm works and what it all means, so that when they move past arithmetic they still understand what they're doing. If all you're doing is teaching algorithms, then eventually they hit a point where they can't memorize more algorithms - or they can, but they can't pick which one is the right one to use in any given situation. Understanding takes longer to teach, but it also lasts longer.

 

It's like with reading. It's faster and easier to just memorize every word individually, until you are trying to read complex works with unfamiliar words. Then your memory gives out. It takes longer to learn phonics, and many parents are dismayed when their child who could "read" a book perfectly is now stuttering and slowly sounding out each and every word, but phonics lasts longer. You don't need to memorize the spelling of each of the 40,000 odd words in an adult vocabulary, you just have to memorize a few rules and letters.

I do understand why they try to teach all the crazy things they do. I just think a lot of it is completely out of sequence. There are some concepts that if they waited to teach them would make a ton more sense. Also, if they want them to understand conceptually, they need to spend more time on it. For example, when they were teaching two digit by two digit multiplication, they had the students break the numbers into tens and ones and multiply each section. That was great teaching for understanding. They spent one day on it and that was it. No review problems -nothing. So, IMO, if they’re going to try to teach the “whyâ€, they need to actually try to solidify that teaching instead of zipping onto the next thing.

 

 

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[Tanaqui]

Not being familiar with the curriculum they're using, I'm sure you're absolutely right when you say they screwed up the execution. But I wouldn't reach for conspiracy theories just yet.

[Southern Ivy]

I have taught Saxon, Everyday Math, and Envision. 

[MistyMountain]

They use Go Math in my district. That is pure craziness that they use that crazy way to do long division. Drawing a bunch of circles and skip counting that high is crazy and so arduous. Skip counting is not the best way to show the concept especially for long division. I do like doing long division conceptually so they understand what is happening but that is craziness.

Edited November 6, 2017 by MistyMountain

[SparklyUnicorn]

They use something called Eureka Math or EngageNY.  It doesn't seem to be a book exactly, but you can find their materials on-line to look at it. 

 

Few years ago they were using Math in Focus.  Before that they were using Everyday Math. 

[Sneezyone]

DDs school uses EngageNY for middle school. It seems to be almost exclusively applied math problems. It works well for kids who are good with conceptual math and have computational fluency. The kids who lack those things are really struggling.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Targhee]

This is exactly what my 4th grade daughter is doing in public school. It's ridiculous. I was teaching her the "traditional" way - the NORMAL way, of knowing your facts - and her teacher told her not to do that, to draw the dang circles and skip count the multiples. It takes so long to do one problem. She forgets the steps she's on because she's spent five minutes skip counting to God knows what. I hate it.

FWIW my DD entered public in 4th and started Go Math after doing RS B, mixed with Miquon and Education Unbixed, Singapore PM 1-2, and the BA 3A-D. She rocked it. And I NEVER had her memorize her facts - she built a times table and we laminated it and she could use it whenever. There's more than one way to skin a cat, or teach math. Teaching the algorithm is fine, but the process of circling and skip counting is an attempt to cement the idea of what the algorithm is a short cut to. The fact dd was (and is) successful in Go Math tells me that she had a good foundation to understand the concepts in Go Math, even if the materials were poorly laid out or the teacher's in the lurch for understanding it all. While I would prefer to have her home to get more BA Math, I'd much rather see Go Math than Everyday Math or some others. I would not, however, choose it for home.

[ReadingMama1214]

I’m thankful that our public charter school uses Singapore

[fralala]

Algorithms can be very useful, but I can understand why some programs approach them as potentially problematic. It is problematic for me that for much of my adult life, I would have had to use the algorithm for 126/3 vs. looking at it and instantly understanding, hey, 30 x 4 is 120, so the answer is going to be 42. I think all the skip counting is supposed to prod such discoveries, but this discovery method of teaching is very dependent on the facilitator. A great teacher can do wonderful things with a bad curriculum, and unfortunately it also works the other way around. If a curriculum is really recommending that kids count past 40 or 50 by threes without noticing a pattern and figuring out strategies to make it go faster (I have never seen the circles, but is this the goal?), I can't see what that's teaching except that math is illogical and frustrating.

Edited November 6, 2017 by fralala

[Meriwether]

I'm going to add - 

 

My husband teaches at a university that admits 7.9% of applicants. It is consistently in the top 10 or so ranked universities.

 

And hubby was looking at math my 7th grader was doing last night and said, "My students couldn't do this. They've been so indoctrinated into the idea that math is hard they wouldn't even try."

 

Now, he's got good students who are amazing. But the level of math incompetence among the elite is flooring.

 

Don't follow the public school route!

 

Emily

 

This is scary to me. I hope your 7th grader is fabulous at math.

[mountains27]

My son who was home schooled from 1-3 grade just re entered the local PS and they just started using Bridges in Mathematics this year https://www.mathlearningcenter.org/bridges

 

It looks tricky from what I have seen so far and my son is struggling with it. Although he struggles with math in general so I can't say for sure it is the program. I will say a lot of parents (some of them teachers) I have talked with say they are not thrilled with this math program. It's still new to us so I'm giving it a chance.

[EmilyGF]

This is scary to me. I hope your 7th grader is fabulous at math.

He's in AOPS Intro to Counting and Probability. You only need an algebra background to do it. It isn't hard - you just need to be patient, able to problem solve, and willing to try a few different approaches. So it is advanced, but not crazily advanced. 

 

Emily

[Farrar]

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all... but I do think there are a lot of forces that make it next to impossible to make it work. Some of it is the left hand not talking to the right - the layers of bureaucracy from the top to the bottom are pretty big, so the textbook and approach decisions are often really separated from the core teaching staff. Some of it is politicians being the one making the decisions instead of educators. This is not the case in most countries, where educators make the decisions and politicians, yeah, approve them, discuss them, etc. But in the US, often the politicians are the ones who drive the changes based on political reasons. Some of it is the incredible diversity of school systems - there's no "American school system" after all. Some of it is the money. Some of it is the market forces. I think the market is slowly making better and better homeschool curricula because we are the real time consumers of the products - we make changes quickly, we see the products as implemented, we rec and review... but for schools, the end users (ahem, victims) of the products have no say in their purchase. So to sell things, companies have to appeal to politicians. And they get more money if they turn out new editions more often instead of just revising. So even when the textbook authors they hire have great intentions, they're often not given enough time to turn out a good product. And now there's a lot of money in education. The technology piece is also key - they have to convince the districts to buy the online versions.

 

I could go on. Basically, I don't think it's clear cut enough for there to be a conspiracy. Even something like Common Core... has great intentions. It's just such a morass that it's almost impossible to reform it all.

[bethben]

Aaaccckkk!!! Dd just brought home another confusing worksheet...The whole class was confused so she didn’t have homework. I explained it backwards and she understood right away. I get what they are trying to do, but again—confusing...I simplified the whole thing and taught her what they were trying to teach but didn’t because it was so confusing with their method. I may as well homeschool her—I am essentially her math teacher. Sometimes I wish I could go in her classroom and just teach them all math. She’s not the only one who thinks she’s stupid in math.

 

 

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Edited November 7, 2017 by bethben

[City Mouse]

Any math textbook or program is only as good as the person teaching it, and that is 75% (made up number) of the problem with public school math.

 

On the other hand, I talk to a parent last week who told me that she was so happy the I was teaching the kids the partial product and partial quotient methods. She has learning disabilities, and has never been able to understand how to do multi digit multiplication and division. She is working alongside her son on math and she now says she is now starting to learn how to do multiplication and division. I teach 4th grade math!

Edited November 7, 2017 by City Mouse

[mamamoose]

I went to a top 5 university and took through Calc 3 with nothing less than a B. I scored a 700 on the math portion of the SAT (pre-recentering) and a 720 on the math portion of the GRE my senior year of college.

 

I learned a completely embarrassing amount of math from Right Start B & C and Singapore PM. :blushing: I could calculate the right answer from "plug-n-chug" but had no clue why the algorithms worked.

 

I didn’t attend a top 5 but went to an engineering state university on a full ride academic scholarship, scored a 1400 on my SATs (25 years ago), got As in Calculus and Physics, and feel the same way! I love how Right Start doesn’t skip over the method behind the algorithm and my mental math has improved greatly!

[mamamoose]

That's ridiculous! Our family of 7 only has one computer. And our internet doesn't work well half the time! Our neighbors were constantly getting their internet turned off, because they couldn't afford it. We live in a new area where no one has built houses before, so there are no choices when it comes to internet/cable services and they are ridiculously expensive. A lot of people here live in very remote areas and I'm not even sure how they get internet - satellite internet, maybe?? *shrug*

 

I don't like this reliance on technology and the internet for school. It seems very wrong.

I feel the same way. When my kids were in public school, in a low income rural school district, with large families, a lot was done on the computer. It’s next to impossible—thankful this school doesn’t rely on homework much at all. It wouldn’t get done anyway.

[Bluegoat]

I will say that I didn't think much of the program my dd used last year for grade 6.  In the first term they did something they called inputs and outputs, which was a series of operations where they had to figure out what number to plug in at the beginning to get the right output.

 

The thing is, that had no skills to do this - they were just guessing numbers, and finding it very frustrating.  When we had parent teacher interviews, she said all the teachers hated that unit and all the kids did badly.  In general, the whole program seemed very scattered.  Dd did pretty well, mainly because she knew her math facts and how to do mental math, and despite the fact that she was behind a bit and hadn't learned division yet. 

 

This year, their math seems largely based on these very tiny tests that they do, like a 4th of a page.  Which worries me a little.  I think that this may be in part because they are learning it i French, and are learning a lot of the vocabulary as they go along, but I do wonder if they'll be able to put it together and really are understanding the algorithms. Since it's in French I don't find it easy to help out much at home.

 

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

Any math textbook or program is only as good as the person teaching it, and that is 75% (made up number) of the problem with public school math.

 

Teachers who lack the conceptual understanding IS a big problem, but for a fair number of these Common Core programs, even a teacher with a solid conceptual understanding is going to find it confusing because it's poorly written (here's looking at you, EngageNY :glare: )

 

If my daughter's district were using Math in Focus or Singapore, I'd be able to help her no sweat after having taken my older two through Singapore PM.

[Guest]

Ours schools use EngageNY.  It is horrible.

[bethben]

So, I am starting to figure out what is happening with the math program.  Basically what happens is that they try to teach the "why" behind the math.  Usually, it's a mess and my dd comes home saying the whole class was confused.  One day on the crazy high number skip counting - one day on big circles with tons of little circles, one day of weird long division - none of those concepts to be seen again - not one of them to be reviewed.  THEN, they teach the way we all know and have been taught.  DD came home and said, "They're teaching math the way you taught me now.  Everyone in the class is really confused, but I wasn't".  So, if I just teach dd the simple way, eventually all the confusion of them trying to teach the "why" goes away and they come around to the way I taught her in the first place.  The same thing happened with multiplication two digit by two digit.  The weird math never sticks and is never reviewed so I'm not going to bother trying to teach her better.  Dumb.

Edited November 9, 2017 by bethben

[Tanaqui]

Sounds like they needed to put more effort into the execution, and also that the teachers aren't invested in this program (and possibly don't understand the conceptual basis themselves very well).

[Zinnia]

Ours uses McGraw Hill. Last year, it came home unused (4th grade). This year, it is being used. But it's November, and he has learned absolutely nothing so far this year