Kids 8+ sitting in on adult conversations....

[Ottakee]

I have found the kids listening in to be more common among homeschoolers. The kids are with adults all day and interact with them. Many parents also seem to want it/allow it.

 

I will gladly sit and talk with my kids and their friends or my friend's kids but there are certainly times when we want to talk ALONE without younger ears listening in. I admit, it bugs me when kids want to hang right there with the moms and listen to every word. They could easily go to another room of the house, outside, etc. If they don't want to play with other kids or socialize with other teens.

 

We are foster/adoptive parents and sometimes we just need to talk about things that are private and not for little ears. Other times it might be lighter chit chat but the tone certainly changes when the kids are around.

 

I loved walking with my friend as we would get 30-50 minutes of 1:1 time several days a week to just talk and vent and share and encourage without the risk of others overhearing.

[TeenagerMom]

When you get together with other families, do the adults never share difficulties they're having with a child? Disappointing school experiences? Cramps? Financial strains? Boyfriend/girlfriend relationships of their teens?

 

These are the things that my friends and I talk about when we're together, and I can't for the life of me imagine that any of those topics are appropriate for kids 8 and above. They're just not, imo. If I'm having a hard time with one of my dc, I'm going to discuss this with my friends in front of one of their kids? No way Jose!

 

Adults in my world need time to talk about adult matters, and that means some privacy is expected. Many of us homeschool, so there is PLENTY of moms-with-kids-talking-time. But not every conversation is meant to be had in front of kids. Not even in front of teens, because I don't think my friend's 17 year old son needs to know if I'm having bad cramps, kwim?

 

I talk about some of these things with my friends.  Over Facebook, over the telephone, or over lunches, at MNO, etc without our children around. We hired sitters or traded sitting for "adult" time before our's were old enough to just stay home alone. But no, I rarely vent or anything about my teenagers to anyone other than my mother or my husband.  We also don't discuss our finances with anyone as those are private issues in our household.  But I also have no issues talking about my cramps in front of my children, even when they were younger.  They are normal biological functions and none of those things are taboo in our household.

 

I think the thing everyone can take from the thread is that the family culture can vary widely in different households and you should probably try to find like-minded friends or risk offending someone because your kids are included or aren't.

[fairfarmhand]

No, not often especially at the pool or at the park in a public place like the person described.  To be honest, when we have people over we discuss weighty things but not personal things and everyone is in the thick of it.  I don't discuss what you talk about above except with one or two people if that.  I ask to meet them alone not with a big homeschool gathering or at the park.   

 

For me, a homeschool gathering at the park could be four families or fourteen. Of course with 14, I'm not sharing personal stuff, but with four of my close mom friends? Sure.

 

If I don't get a chance to ever discuss those things (and as a busy mom among other busy moms) I don't form close relationships. I hold people at arms length.

 

I thought of a for instance that happens in my family from time to time.

 

My dh is in a church leadership position that meams that he's often privy to information that doesn't end up in tge general church pool of info. His friend is in the same position.

 

There are times when we're hanging out with that friends family that somthing comes up that needs a little more privacy. It's not that my dh doesn't ever tell me information, but when its a discussion, since I'm not in an official position, I have not business being in on the discussion.

 

So my dh says something like "Hey, could you take the kids to the playground?" If we're at church.

 

Or, could you go do xyz in the kitchen?

 

Which is code for this conversation has become a little more private. Can you give us some space?

 

It is not dismissive. He's not being rude. Its always perfectly polite and kind so I honor his request. I feel its the same when I tell my kids to find something to do, especially if I know one of my friends is having an ongoing struggle that she probably wants to talk about.

[Joker]

When you get together with other families, do the adults never share difficulties they're having with a child? Disappointing school experiences? Cramps? Financial strains? Boyfriend/girlfriend relationships of their teens?

 

These are the things that my friends and I talk about when we're together, and I can't for the life of me imagine that any of those topics are appropriate for kids 8 and above. They're just not, imo. If I'm having a hard time with one of my dc, I'm going to discuss this with my friends in front of one of their kids? No way Jose!

 

Adults in my world need time to talk about adult matters, and that means some privacy is expected. Many of us homeschool, so there is PLENTY of moms-with-kids-talking-time. But not every conversation is meant to be had in front of kids. Not even in front of teens, because I don't think my friend's 17 year old son needs to know if I'm having bad cramps, kwim?

 

I don't talk about any of these things with anyone other than dh. I have one super close friend (since elementary school) that I sometimes talk with regarding dc but it's nothing I wouldn't say in front of them or her dc. 

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with those who want the privacy and I don't think it means they like their kids less than I do. It's just not something I need or do. So, I won't be one to send my dc away so probably wouldn't be spending much time with those who do want that privacy. 

[Liz CA]

There's a time and a place for children/young people to sit in on adult conversations - and there's a time and a place for adults to converse without children!! I certainly did not grow up listening in on adult conversations unless invited - and I had no interest in doing so, either!

 

Anne

 

Oh I had plenty of interest and big ears to boot but I was usually told to occupy myself otherwise.  ;)

 

[Mergath]

It's pretty normal for mine and my friends' kids to drift in and out during adult conversations. And these are both home and public schooled kids, for the record, so this isn't just some weird homeschool thing. My dd is nine, but there isn't much I'm uncomfortable discussing in front of her. We're very open, and she knows she can come to me with any questions she has, so it would be extremely hypocritical of me to send her off because I'm talking about something related to my vag or whatever. I have a friend whose teenage son has sat and listened to conversations on menopause or sex or a million other things. If he finds it awkward, he knows he's welcome to leave and find something else to do, and sometimes he does. I'm not worried about him gossiping because 1) he knows better and 2) I can't imagine any of his thirteen year old friends would particularly care about a conversation his mom and her middle-aged friends had about their periods. :lol:

 

I don't know. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. I suppose if I felt like there were umpteen number of things I couldn't discuss in front of dd I might be annoyed if she was sitting here, but around here you listen in on or participate in conversations at your own risk. :P And I don't tend to talk about dd (at least, not in a way I wouldn't want her hearing) to other people, but if I did feel the need to talk about her with a friend I suppose we would just go out alone for lunch or something. Otherwise, the only person I talk to about any issues dd might be having is dh.

 

[AFwife Claire]

I'm in a co-op that meets at our house for high school and junior high.  There are only about 5-6 families in it, so we moms are very close, as are all our kids.  We do a lot of interacting with all the kids and everyone together, but there are plenty of times that we tell the kids to run off and find something else to do because we're just wanting to talk with the moms.  Like others have said, I don't always want to explain every detail of situations that are factoring in on big decisions (like where their child is going to choose for college or whatever, not marriage issues or anything), and we just want to talk through things like that without kids listening in.  

 

In a real life example, one mom ended up making the decision to put one of her junior high kids in a different co-op next year.  She wanted a place to process all the issues she was considering, but without my nosy 11 year old daughter or anyone else hearing and forming opinions on the situation (and sharing them)!  

 

Other things we've discussed would include curriculum decisions (not always, but sometimes you just want to throw things out without a kid saying, "Oh, I HATE that one!  Suzy said it was the worst thing EVER!"), dealing with sibling rivalries, recognizing ADHD in one child (the mom of the child had read something which struck her because she hadn't considered that possibility, but she wanted to see if her impressions made sense), dealing with teenage boy anger that seems to be related to puberty and hormones, and stuff like that.  

 

There are lots of things I love having my kids' input on, and I definitely enjoy being around all my kids, and my friends' kids, especially the teenagers.  But they definitely don't need to just hang around all the time, soaking up random bits of knowledge about their peers or peers' parents, especially when there is no way they need to be inputting anything to the discussion.

[Farrar]

I generally let my kids stay and would think that's normal. But occasionally, one of them comes and interjects tangents or generally is there not because they want to engage with the adults but rather because they're bored and feel like poking everyone and seeing what happens. In which case, I do tell them to go find something else to do. Basically, they're welcome to come be in the conversation if they want to be in the conversation but not if they want to be annoying.

 

The other situation that I might send them away is if I am meeting up with a mom friend and we've agreed to talk over something specific. Like, oh, we'll plan that class or I'll explain how such and such works at the park day because that will be convenient. Not convenient if the kids feel like they need to come over and chat about Pokemon Go or ballet class or whatever.

[TeenagerMom]

So my husband and I are baffled about this seemingly new thing among our group of homeschooling families. When adults are at the park, pool, etc...and conversing...the kids plop down and listen to every word spoken. I definitely did not grow up with this. I was to leave the adults alone unless I needed to interrupt, in which case it had better be important and I had better do it politely.

 

But there are 2-3 families that seem to not mind when their kids sit/stand next to them when the adults are talking and soak it all in. It drives me nuts because 1) this happens during playdates and there are tons of other kids around for them to play with and 2) it really limits what the conversation can be about. My husband feels the same way. There are also a few girls ages 9 and 13 who feel like they can just interrupt their mom anytime they want and chime in on the adult topic. The moms respectfully listen to them and even encourage their feedback. I personally would say "go play, the adults are talking" if my kids did that consistently. 

 

But I have to wonder, are we the weird ones or is this a common thing? Just not how I grew up.

 

The more I read the OP, the more it kind of bothers me.  Like it's kind of dissing the other parents that they respectfully listen to their children, even if it's during the course of the adult topic, instead of dismissing what their child has to say and sending them off to play.  My children really never even played beyond the age of 11.  They hung out with their friends.  Not played unless it was video games.  I can't imagine just dismissing my child, regardless of their age, if they had something they wanted to say to me. 

 

Even when I AM in the middle of a conversation, if my child runs up needing to address me, they have been taught to stand and patiently wait until there is a natural pause in the conversation, where they can ask for my attention to address whatever they may need.  It doesn't have to be deemed important by me or the other person in the conversation because it was apparently important to my child.  My first obligation is to my children no matter where we are.

 

[Bootsie]

I would not consider a conversation at a park or a pool to be an "adults only" conversation.  Whenever I have wanted to have an adults only conversation, I have tried to have it in a more private situation.   An adults only conversation would be the exception, not the rule.  

[Shellydon]

This is a great list.  I do not want my kids overhearing this type of stuff, and if a friend is trying to say these things, they sure as heck don't want my 10 yo hearing about female issues.  It is totally appropriate for the kid to be sent away from the conversation.

Topics that might come up at our lunch gatherings that aren't bad but not necessarily something I want someone's 8 yo listening to:

 

We had a hard day because one of my kids was in a mood.

 

Struggles with female issues.

 

Why I can't find bras that fit correctly.

 

Who in the world design clothing nowadays? Is it that hard to fit them so the bum is covered? (this isn't gossip, this is my own personal struggle)

 

Worries about the future

 

Struggles with my children

 

The results of my mammogram

 

These topics are not top secret, but nor do I want to talk about them in front of a 10 yo boy or girl. In the case of talking about my kids, I frame them in ways that my kids wouldn't be embarrassed that I was sharing, but more in the same way that a teen would be "I can't believe my mom...Did you know what she won't let me do?"

 

These are topics that come up in a group of 3-5 moms whose kids play (hang out in the case of teens) while we chat. As incredibly busy ladies, if we didn't talk about them then, they wouldn't get discussed. In thinking about it, none of us have family members who are close to us with whom we can bounce ideas off of. So it's like wer'e sisters!

 

I want to talk to my friends about this stuff. Evenings for all of us are packed. We mostly have 3-4 kids each with lots of activities.

 

[Shellydon]

It's pretty normal for mine and my friends' kids to drift in and out during adult conversations. And these are both home and public schooled kids, for the record, so this isn't just some weird homeschool thing. My dd is nine, but there isn't much I'm uncomfortable discussing in front of her. We're very open, and she knows she can come to me with any questions she has, so it would be extremely hypocritical of me to send her off because I'm talking about something related to my vag or whatever. I have a friend whose teenage son has sat and listened to conversations on menopause or sex or a million other things. If he finds it awkward, he knows he's welcome to leave and find something else to do, and sometimes he does. I'm not worried about him gossiping because 1) he knows better and 2) I can't imagine any of his thirteen year old friends would particularly care about a conversation his mom and her middle-aged friends had about their periods. :lol:

 

I don't know. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. I suppose if I felt like there were umpteen number of things I couldn't discuss in front of dd I might be annoyed if she was sitting here, but around here you listen in on or participate in conversations at your own risk. :p And I don't tend to talk about dd (at least, not in a way I wouldn't want her hearing) to other people, but if I did feel the need to talk about her with a friend I suppose we would just go out alone for lunch or something. Otherwise, the only person I talk to about any issues dd might be having is dh.

 

See, this would make me not be friends with people who allow their teen son to listen to female stuff.  I DO NOT want someone's 13 yo son to have any knowledge about MY personal info.  If a friend would not send her kids away so that we could have deeper conversations about life, personal issues, relationships, then the friendship would be come very superficial.   

[TeenagerMom]

See, this would make me not be friends with people who allow their teen son to listen to female stuff.  I DO NOT want someone's 13 yo son to have any knowledge about MY personal info.  If a friend would not send her kids away so that we could have deeper conversations about life, personal issues, relationships, then the friendship would be come very superficial.   

 

Whereas, I would probably distance myself from someone who thought discussing their private needs should mean sending my child off to be by themselves (if they have no one else they want to hang out with, etc) in a public situation like a group gathering. I would rather discuss issues like those in a more intimate setting like coffee, etc instead of a group situation where multiple people may need to halt the conversation to attend to their multiple children.  I've never been to a park day, etc. where there weren't multiple boo boos, toddlers running off, babies needing diapers changed, nursed, etc. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

See, this would make me not be friends with people who allow their teen son to listen to female stuff.  I DO NOT want someone's 13 yo son to have any knowledge about MY personal info.  If a friend would not send her kids away so that we could have deeper conversations about life, personal issues, relationships, then the friendship would be come very superficial.   

 

 

Whereas, I would probably distance myself from someone who thought discussing their private needs should mean sending my child off to be by themselves (if they have no one else they want to hang out with, etc) in a public situation like a group gathering. I would rather discuss issues like those in a more intimate setting like coffee, etc instead of a group situation where multiple people may need to halt the conversation to attend to their multiple children.  I've never been to a park day, etc. where there weren't multiple boo boos, toddlers running off, babies needing diapers changed, nursed, etc. 

This is why I think of it as a subculture thing.  As in people who think similarly tend to become friends.  And of course whichever way you tend to interact in such settings will determine how you train your kids to interact in those settings.  There is nothing inherently wrong with teaching your child to run off with their age mates.  And there is nothing inherently wrong with teaching your child to come and join in with adults.  There are some pros and cons to each.  And people are going to choose the way that appears to have more pros for their situation.  And occasionally there will be a cultural clash when you get people from these two different subcultures together.  I just don't think that thinking unkindly of someone in the other subculture is the way to go.  Peaceful coexistence and all that. 

[caedmyn]

My parents didn't socialize much, and when they did I wasn't particularly interested in their conversations. For myself, I'd be ok with kids listening in on some adult conversations *if* they could either be quiet or participate intelligently. Generally, though, with my kids or the others I've been around, they just interrupt so I'd prefer they just go and do their own thing.

[Callie]

I definitely send my kids to go play so that I can talk to my friends!

 

 

One likes hang out for a while and chat with the adults, but after a certain point I send his off to be with the other kids.

 

There's a lot of reasons. First of all,HELLO I don't get to chat with my friends irl all the time and since circumstances dictated that when I do, it's often when all out kids are there, tough nuts, I get to have some time to myself and my friends too!! DH sees his friends, kid free, all. The. Time, and I don't bother my kids when they are with THEIR friends.

There's a balance because it is important I think that kids sit in on adults sometimes, to get a feel for it. But it 100% doesn't need to be every single time I sit down with my friends. Balance.

 

Also, my kids NEED to go play free play type play with other kids besides the two of them. There's a "social muscle" there that needs to be developed and maintained.

 

It's not about kids being seen and not heard. It's about all of us being human, with social needs. I absolutely reserve the right to carve out teeny tiny slivers of time (geesh) where a friend can talk in Confidence about her pending divorce or whatever. Or just... Day to day stuff without everything being sanitized for kids.

 

If m talking with someone else and they don't choose to scoot their kids off to play, then so be it. But it's HIGHLY impractical to say any given individual who is with her kids 24 freaking 7 should never tell them to go play so she can have a private conversation.

 

Shoot. For that matter, I've had friends over before and I've asked my husband to let us chat. He (who, again, gets to spend time with adults who are his friends just for the joy of it whenever his work schedule allows) understands completely why that's important.

[TX Native]

I am fine sending 8+ yo kids off to either play or occupy themselves in some situations so adults can visit with other adults, but not every situation. And usually this is in my home or a home in which the kids are comfortable and not for long lengths of time, maybe I could expect a couple 30 min slots of time without polite interruption of any of the kids involved (unless the kids are watching a movie). Just think, kids don't go long lengths of time at school without needing to ask teachers questions or needing the teacher to give direction for what to do next every 30 min or less. 2-5 kids of that age playing together may not find something to interrupt grown ups for as often as a large group of kids expected to all play together while the grown ups visit, IME.

 

As far as having kids sit and listen in on "planned" personal conversation between adults, I send mine on their way after addressing the reason for the polite interruption (they get corrected if they butt in rudely or more frequently than every few minutes). If they weren't forewarned that I am going to have a visit with the other parent(s) while they do their own thing, I would not expect them to know I didn't want them hanging around while the adults talked, nor would I expect another parent to know I wanted some chat time without much kid interruption without saying so when the play date was planned. For most adult visitors in our home, the kids do often sit in with the adults in conversation and contribute if they have something to contribute. Most adults we have had over engage the kids in conversation. Often, we have adults over for dinner and visiting is with our kids involved through the dinner and a bit after dinner conversation. Then we send the kids upstairs to either go to bed early, watch a show, or read while the adults visit. We don't allow the kids down in our conversation after that transition. As they are growing older, I am also trying to butt in less when they are having conversations with their peers and respect their space to just want to hang out with their friends without me helicoptering over them all the time. It's a balance both ways, I hope they always feel free to be in conversation with adults around me, while respecting when I plan a visit intended just for talking with the grown ups involved. Likewise, I hope to always feel free to engage in conversations they are having with their friends, while respecting their desire to just go ride bikes or hang in their rooms with just their friends without me always looking over their shoulder.

 

A park or pool with a group of people we have few bonds with other than we all happen to homeschool is not one of the situations where I would send my kid off to play if my child felt more comfortable hanging by me. I expect the conversation in those situations to be light and filled with many interruptions due to little ones needing bathroom runs or extra supervision, a scraped knee or bee sting here and there, a riff among a few of the kids that needs gentle (or blunt) redirection from a parent, an introverted child needing a time out from group play, a tween just not mixing well with the other kids yet not having a place to be alone, etc.... I gave up expectations on finishing a conversation with another mom at a park long ago! Even if the kids play well together and are old enough for minimal supervision, some interruption always comes up (and not always a rude interruption). Eg: an asthmatic needs an inhaler puff from mom's purse and then needs to sit out a few minutes, another group of kids shows up with foul language and our kids need redirected to a different area, little sister scraped a knee, and so on. Also, to revisit the public school comparison, homeschool play date at the park could be a bit compared to recess at the public school...the 4th and 5th grade recess does not run on auto-pilot. Lots of kids coming to the teacher for this and that during recess time-some for legit reasons, some unnecessary, and some kids just like to hang with the teacher during recess time (I remember hanging near my 5th grade teacher quite a bit during recess even if she was in light conversation with other teachers.) I was teacher's pet though! However, I can sympathize with your feeling the need for that parent alone chat time while the kids play, especially if park gatherings is your main place to get that. I just think your desire for having that adult chat time at a park can only happen if you are with like-minded families that want the same thing out of the park day and the kids are close enough friends to be content visiting with each other long lengths of time-which is not usually the case if people are just getting together because they all homeschool or all in the same class or whatever. It sounds like in your mind homeschool park play date = time for the kids to play while the adults have peer-peer conversation (which is a legit desire, just not a practical desire in a park environment with random people IMO) and some others in the group are showing up just to hang out in a family intergrated way.

[foxbridgeacademy]

It's to some extent how I grew up. We could sit and listen but not join in.  My mom often said "if you sit quietly and listen you'll be amazed at what you learn".  

 

I actively encourage my children to not only listen but to join in to adult conversation, after all I'm raising future adults.  This type of parenting has led to, in my home anyway, very mature kids.  My 16 y.o. and 14 y.o. act years older than they are.  They still played with their friends when they were young but they also sat and just listened and sometimes joined in.  From conversations with adults they have learned how to act and talk like adults, they're not awkward in a room of old people  ;) .  They also understand more about the real world, which is a good thing IMO.

 

Also we discuss pretty much everything with our kids, less when they were young but more than most probably do.  If someone wants to talk to me about a more private matter I have no problem with them saying so and me sending the kids off.  But for general conversation?  Nope my kids have probably heard it all before- 

 

Including: female issues, home life issues, money/income, state of he World, etc... My parents never discussed this with us, we could listen to them talk but they never explained anything, same for DH.  We were determined to do it differently.  I want my children prepared for the World and all the good and really sucky things that happen.

 

And like a PP said my children's needs always come first, definitely before a conversation.

Edited July 8, 2017 by foxbridgeacademy

[SKL]

In my experience, adults don't attempt kid-free conversations in kid-oriented settings.  It's just impractical.  Doesn't mean they never have private adult-only conversations, but they arrange to do that at times when kids are nowhere around.

 

My kids hear everything, whether I intend it or not.  If I'm talking with them in the vicinity, I don't say things I don't want them to hear.

 

As for interrupting, my kids do it, it's annoying, I tell them not to, but they are still not perfect on that point.  Probably because it's pretty unusual for me to be talking to another adult outside of our close circle.

[SKL]

As far as "when I was a kid," I'm not sure parents always shared as much as they do nowadays.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Something else to consider: I've often heard homeschoolers say school kids aren't able to hold a conversation with adults the way homeschooled kids do, so this may be intentional on the part of some homeschool parents. 

This not necessarily true. My kid was homeschooled for part of kindergarden,1st, 2nd, and 4th grade only. The rest of the time he has been in school. He takes part in many adult conversations with us and family and has a lot of very informed opinions.

 

I think what matters is whether the parents engage the child in conversations which we have done consistently over the years. I don't think this is a matter of how one schools your child.

[Butter]

As far as "when I was a kid," I'm not sure parents always shared as much as they do nowadays.

 

Trust me, some most definitely did :)

[Bluegoat]

In my experience, adults don't attempt kid-free conversations in kid-oriented settings.  It's just impractical.  Doesn't mean they never have private adult-only conversations, but they arrange to do that at times when kids are nowhere around.

 

My kids hear everything, whether I intend it or not.  If I'm talking with them in the vicinity, I don't say things I don't want them to hear.

 

As for interrupting, my kids do it, it's annoying, I tell them not to, but they are still not perfect on that point.  Probably because it's pretty unusual for me to be talking to another adult outside of our close circle.

 

Yes, I just can't imagine trying to do that sort of thing much at a hoomeschool park day.  IfI was meeting with some closer friends and we wanted to discuss something more personal, we'd tell the kids to go off and play, if that was going to be the only chance to talk.

 

But something fairly public like a park day or library homeschool games - I am just not going to be talking about anything very personal in that setting anyway.

[Word Nerd]

See, this would make me not be friends with people who allow their teen son to listen to female stuff. I DO NOT want someone's 13 yo son to have any knowledge about MY personal info. If a friend would not send her kids away so that we could have deeper conversations about life, personal issues, relationships, then the friendship would be come very superficial.

If the only time you ever see them is at a mixed group gathering of kids and parents like a park day, it's probably going to be pretty superficial anyway. I don't think anyone is arguing that kids should be able to join every adult conversation in every context. I don't think anyone should expect private adults-only conversations at a park or other play area, as that isn't the right venue.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Word Nerd

[Word Nerd]

This not necessarily true. My kid was homeschooled for part of kindergarden,1st, 2nd, and 4th grade only. The rest of the time he has been in school. He takes part in many adult conversations with us and family and has a lot of very informed opinions.

 

I think what matters is whether the parents engage the child in conversations which we have done consistently over the years. I don't think this is a matter of how one schools your child.

Note that I never said it was true, just that I've heard homeschoolers make the claim and that some may see this as a teaching opportunity for that skill.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Word Nerd

[unsinkable]

It's pretty normal for mine and my friends' kids to drift in and out during adult conversations. And these are both home and public schooled kids, for the record, so this isn't just some weird homeschool thing. My dd is nine, but there isn't much I'm uncomfortable discussing in front of her. We're very open, and she knows she can come to me with any questions she has, so it would be extremely hypocritical of me to send her off because I'm talking about something related to my vag or whatever. I have a friend whose teenage son has sat and listened to conversations on menopause or sex or a million other things. If he finds it awkward, he knows he's welcome to leave and find something else to do, and sometimes he does. I'm not worried about him gossiping because 1) he knows better and 2) I can't imagine any of his thirteen year old friends would particularly care about a conversation his mom and her middle-aged friends had about their periods. :lol:

 

I don't know. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. I suppose if I felt like there were umpteen number of things I couldn't discuss in front of dd I might be annoyed if she was sitting here, but around here you listen in on or participate in conversations at your own risk. :P And I don't tend to talk about dd (at least, not in a way I wouldn't want her hearing) to other people, but if I did feel the need to talk about her with a friend I suppose we would just go out alone for lunch or something. Otherwise, the only person I talk to about any issues dd might be having is dh.

See, this would make me not be friends with people who allow their teen son to listen to female stuff. I DO NOT want someone's 13 yo son to have any knowledge about MY personal info. If a friend would not send her kids away so that we could have deeper conversations about life, personal issues, relationships, then the friendship would be come very superficial.

I don't know exactly what Mergath means when she says she talks about sex in front of a 13 yo but in many situations, that would be something that could or would be a big red flag.

 

Talking about sex, sexuality, comments about bodies...that can all be grooming behavior. And it doesn't have to be in private. Making inappropriate comments like that, in front kids, in front of parents...is sometimes a test to see what will happen. Will the commenter be immediately shut down? Or will parents be fine or uncomfortable or clueless?

 

Before anyone says I'm saying Mergath is grooming the 13 yo kid...I'm not.

[TechWife]

If adults need to discuss something that they don't want kids to overhear, they need to do it when kids aren't around. Kids are welcome in conversations with adults when they are present. It's part of being a family and a larger community.

[Ottakee]

If adults need to discuss something that they don't want kids to overhear, they need to do it when kids aren't around. Kids are welcome in conversations with adults when they are present. It's part of being a family and a larger community.

But how do homeschool moms make this happen of they can't ever tell the kids to "go play"? I think there is a time and place for both.

[Jean in Newcastle]

But how do homeschool moms make this happen of they can't ever tell the kids to "go play"? I think there is a time and place for both.

I don't think that the issue is whether your can tell your own kids to "go play ". The issue is whether you should get mad if someone else doesn't do the same with their kid. I just don't have the same expectation of a totally kid free environment at those kind of events.

[Mergath]

I don't know exactly what Mergath means when she says she talks about sex in front of a 13 yo but in many situations, that would be something that could or would be a big red flag.

 

Talking about sex, sexuality, comments about bodies...that can all be grooming behavior. And it doesn't have to be in private. Making inappropriate comments like that, in front kids, in front of parents...is sometimes a test to see what will happen. Will the commenter be immediately shut down? Or will parents be fine or uncomfortable or clueless?

 

Before anyone says I'm saying Mergath is grooming the 13 yo kid...I'm not.

 

Seriously? Cracking jokes about sex with my friends where a teenager might hear is NOT grooming behavior. Talking to kids and being open about subjects like sex is NOT grooming behavior. Good grief.

 

I realize you said that you excluded me from this, but just no. That's ridiculous. The idea that when I talk to my dd about things like human sexuality and the body it will be seen by some as the grooming behavior of a pedophile is... I don't even know what it is. But I think it says more about the person thinking it than it does about me. :glare:

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Mergath

[winterbaby]

It's one thing for kids to be informed on sex and bodies in general. It's another for them to be privy to information about the specific sex lives and bodily processes of the adults in their lives. The latter is extremely unhealthy. Not necessarily in the sense of grooming for molestation, but there are subtle psychological forms of abuse where the child's privacy and growing sense of boundaries are subverted by excessive "openness."

 

Sometimes people drift onto adult topics opportunistically, when the kids happen to be out of earshot. If the kids come along, you either drop it or brush the kids off, depending on the situation. I would have a lot of trouble with someone who expected a discussion of adult female body issues to continue in the presence of her 13 year old son. I almost can't imagine that. I would certainly steer well clear of a circle where it was the norm.

[Mergath]

See, this would make me not be friends with people who allow their teen son to listen to female stuff.  I DO NOT want someone's 13 yo son to have any knowledge about MY personal info.  If a friend would not send her kids away so that we could have deeper conversations about life, personal issues, relationships, then the friendship would be come very superficial.   

 

That's your call. It really doesn't bother me, though. I think kids learn a lot from listening to and talking with adults.

[Mergath]

It's one thing for kids to be informed on sex and bodies in general. It's another for them to be privy to information about the specific sex lives and bodily processes of the adults in their lives. The latter is extremely unhealthy. Not necessarily in the sense of grooming for molestation, but there are subtle psychological forms of abuse where the child's privacy and growing sense of boundaries are subverted by excessive "openness."

 

Sometimes people drift onto adult topics opportunistically, when the kids happen to be out of earshot. If the kids come along, you either drop it or brush the kids off, depending on the situation. I would have a lot of trouble with someone who expected a discussion of adult female body issues to continue in the presence of her 13 year old son. I almost can't imagine that. I would certainly steer well clear of a circle where it was the norm.

 

:001_rolleyes: You act like women who chat about this stuff are sitting around giving graphic accounts of sex acts or something. And I would find it odd to be part of a group of friends where, if one of us is talking about, say, having horrific PMS cramps and a teenage boy walked in the room, everyone instantly stopped talking and waited until his mom frantically shooed him out of the room. People really do that? You act like those of us who discuss "adult female body issues" are sitting around watching porn or something.

 

No wonder we live in a culture that shames anything to do with women or the female body if continuing to talk about things like menopause when a teenage boy walks into the room is tantamount to psychological abuse to some people. No wonder so many women feel like they can't talk about their reproductive health issues with their husbands, or why men act like it's an act of cruelty if they have to pick up a box of tampons for their wives.

[Mergath]

And since some people apparently have to assume the worst about everything, just to give you an example of what I mean by "talking about sex," when a kid might wander in and hear something, I'm referring to conversations like this:

 

"I've been struggling with low libido lately. It sucks."

"I heard about this supplement that's supposed to help. Maybe you could try that."

"I'll look into it, thanks."

 

No one is like, "Hey, let me give you a detailed account of what my dh and I did in bed last night!" :001_rolleyes: Good grief, people.

 

ETA: FFS. Obviously, I also need to clarify that this conversation was between adult friends. Not with a child. This is getting ridiculous, and I'm done with this thread, because if I roll my eyes any harder I'm going to damage something.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Mergath

[winterbaby]

My boundaries about whom I want to know about what's going on with my body are not up for negotiation. It does not need to be "pornographic" to justify not telling someone else's teenage son all about it. In fact I don't need any justification - and I'm raising my child that she doesn't need to justify her privacy either.

 

The image of "frantically shooing" etc is a deprecatory stereotype of women who desire discretion. Such silly ninnies, right? That's not fair. Just because I don't want to discuss my body with your teenage son doesn't make me a prude. I discuss health issues with my husband just fine. Amazingly, I have different boundaries for him than for my friends' teenage sons.

 

And if boundaries are silly and contemptible, what happens when a kid has something *they* don't want to share? If they've been taught all their lives that modesty is for stupid ninnies, where's their line of defense against people who want to have that conversation for nefarious reasons?

[winterbaby]

Yeah, that doesn't help. Sorry, but I won't be discussing my libido with your kids, either.

[Mergath]

Yeah, that doesn't help. Sorry, but I won't be discussing my libido with your kids, either.

 

Wtf? Where did I say I was discussing my libido with my friends' kids? My adult friends and I were discussing it while one of my friend's sons was in the house. Big difference.

 

If you're going to intentionally misrepresent what I said, there's probably no point in further discussing this with you.

[winterbaby]

You have moved the goalposts from joining in the conversation to might wander by to happens to be in the house. So my response to the first version is being used to paint me as a ninny for being overly concerned about the later versions. That's unfair.

 

And actually there have been times in my life where I have discussed the mechanics of sex with a sister or trusted female friend. I think that's fairly normal. I don't know why it's being painted as an absurdity.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 If they've been taught all their lives that modesty is for stupid ninnies, where's their line of defense against people who want to have that conversation for nefarious reasons?

 

A teen walking into a room where adults are having a normal adult conversation is not grooming ffs.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't discuss my sex life (even in general terms) with adult friends. I don't discuss cramps either. And none of my friends have either. I would assume that all of us discuss those with our spouse and doctors if there is a problem. (I don't think that we're prudes. We just don't discuss it. No need. )

 

We discuss books and movies and hobbies and family and faith and (to a lesser generalized degree) health. None of these would worry me if a child or teen or an adult male came over to join in.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 8, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[Mergath]

You have moved the goalposts from joining in the conversation to might wander by to happens to be in the house. So my response to the first version is being used to paint me as a ninny for being overly concerned about the later versions. That's unfair.

 

And actually there have been times in my life where I have discussed the mechanics of sex with a sister or trusted female friend. I think that's fairly normal. I don't know why it's being painted as an absurdity.

 

Because he's in the house, and he occasionally wanders in to see what we're talking about. If it's something he's curious about, he might ask a question. I don't know why that's hard to understand. I'm trying to make the point that we haven't tied him to a chair in the living room, forcing him to listen or something. Shockingly, he's free to wander around his own house even when my friend has us over. If he comes and sits in the living room for a few minutes during a conversation about heavy periods or whatever, no one tells him to gtfo.

 

Honestly, this is like the fourth time I've explained this. I don't know why you're so desperate to prove that he's being somehow being abused. Omg, he might have heard about supplements for low libido or menopausal night sweats! The horror!

 

Seriously, I'm done now.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Mergath

[wendyroo]

And since some people apparently have to assume the worst about everything, just to give you an example of what I mean by "talking about sex," when a kid might wander in and hear something, I'm referring to conversations like this:

 

"I've been struggling with low libido lately. It sucks."

"I heard about this supplement that's supposed to help. Maybe you could try that."

"I'll look into it, thanks."

 

No one is like, "Hey, let me give you a detailed account of what my dh and I did in bed last night!" :001_rolleyes: Good grief, people.

 

ETA: FFS. Obviously, I also need to clarify that this conversation was between adult friends. Not with a child. This is getting ridiculous, and I'm done with this thread, because if I roll my eyes any harder I'm going to damage something.

 

Yeah, no.  I would feel very uncomfortable discussing that in front of children, and I would step in and end the conversation if an adult was trying to discuss their libido in front of my children.

 

At a recent park date, I was part of a group of moms (more acquaintances than friends) who got onto the subject of how our periods had changed after childbirth.  All 7 of us seemed very comfortable discussing that with each other, even though we were virtual strangers, but each of us automatically paused the conversation whenever one of our children (boys, girls, preschoolers, pre-teens) wandered over...with the obvious exceptions of the young baby who was the catalyst for the conversation and the handful of very young toddlers who were eating wood chips playing nearby.

 

Wendy

[fairfarmhand]

Yeah, no.  I would feel very uncomfortable discussing that in front of children, and I would step in and end the conversation if an adult was trying to discuss their libido in front of my children.

 

At a recent park date, I was part of a group of moms (more acquaintances than friends) who got onto the subject of how our periods had changed after childbirth.  All 7 of us seemed very comfortable discussing that with each other, even though we were virtual strangers, but each of us automatically paused the conversation whenever one of our children (boys, girls, preschoolers, pre-teens) wandered over...with the obvious exceptions of the young baby who was the catalyst for the conversation and the handful of very young toddlers who were eating wood chips playing nearby.

 

Wendy

 

For the record, I don't believe that it is grooming behavior to discuss stuff with friends and have a kid wander in.

 

The above dynamic is what I'm most familiar with.

 

My group does it.

 

And if we've been talking about something and a kid wanders over and we pause, and then the kid just sits down to hang out, the mom tends to gently direct the child elsewhere, if the speaker or conversation needs to conclude. With some topics, the conclusion doesn't matter much so the conversation may move on to more child-friendly (for lack of a better term) topics.

 

I may be prudish, but I'd prefer to present female issues and s*x to my kids in the privacy of their own home without others around. It's not that it's never discussed here. But that's between my kids and I and they prefer it that way too.

 

As far as health concerns, that's something that I probably would share with adult friends before my kids heard about it. Like I had a lump several years back. I talked with other moms who've been through it. I don't like to worry my kids unnecessarily since we've had several family members die of cancer.

[TechWife]

But how do homeschool moms make this happen of they can't ever tell the kids to "go play"? I think there is a time and place for both.

 

You set up a time to talk when the kids aren't around. Yes, it is hard for some people to do that. Sometimes it's impossible. However, if you have kids around, I think you should expect to talk to them. How often do adults really need absolute privacy from children? I have seen few occasions, honestly. 

 

I grew up in a home where open communication was actively discouraged. As a result, we are now a set of siblings that often has a hard time with communication in general. It has been very difficult in a lot of areas that I am not free to go into. Most damaging was the belief that our own personal thoughts, concerns, knowledge, feelings, etc. were not valid and that we should have no reasonable expectation of having something to contribute to a conversation or community in general. Some of us have worked hard to overcome our deficiencies, some of us don't realize there are deficiencies. 

 

But, in reality, should we put our own expectations of privacy on others? I can't expect other people to allow their children to participate in discussions, then they can't expect me to not allow mine to participate. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by TechWife

[Guest]

Yeah, no. I would feel very uncomfortable discussing that in front of children, and I would step in and end the conversation if an adult was trying to discuss their libido in front of my children.

 

At a recent park date, I was part of a group of moms (more acquaintances than friends) who got onto the subject of how our periods had changed after childbirth. All 7 of us seemed very comfortable discussing that with each other, even though we were virtual strangers, but each of us automatically paused the conversation whenever one of our children (boys, girls, preschoolers, pre-teens) wandered over...with the obvious exceptions of the young baby who was the catalyst for the conversation and the handful of very young toddlers who were eating wood chips playing nearby.

 

Wendy

That's how it goes in my groups too. We are all pretty open with one another but wouldn't discuss that if a kid had wandered over. A lot of us cannot arrange other times to get together without children so it gets tricky.

[38carrots]

I remember the days when the moms would all sit at on the grass at a park day, and really just wanting to talk to other moms "about nothing"--no big issues, no secrets, but yeah, as someone said, the big excitement of finding a good cheap bra. I love my kids, I spend so much time with them (and I enjoy it), but I remember wanting to just not to need to talk to them for an hour? lol

 

Other moms would have no problem with their 9-14 year olds sitting with us. I actually admired that. I wish I could do that too--to include my kids so easily. For my kids to feel a part of this big group. And  yet I did tell mine to go and play. I needed a break and I did feel a little uncomfortable because didn't want to talk about those silly little things like good fitting bras or worries about their behaviours, their education, and so on.

 

I realized that if I wasn't the one lacking adult interraction so severely at that time, I'd love for my kids (and other kids) to be part of the group. LIke right now, mine are older, and I don't mind. I like when younger kids come over and chat.

[unsinkable]

Seriously? Cracking jokes about sex with my friends where a teenager might hear is NOT grooming behavior. Talking to kids and being open about subjects like sex is NOT grooming behavior. Good grief.

 

I realize you said that you excluded me from this, but just no. That's ridiculous. The idea that when I talk to my dd about things like human sexuality and the body it will be seen by some as the grooming behavior of a pedophile is... I don't even know what it is. But I think it says more about the person thinking it than it does about me. :glare:

 

I'm not talking about speaking with one's own children.

 

YOU mentioned talking about sex in front of your friend's unrelated (to you ) 13 yo son.

 

In some situations, talking about sex, innuendo, jokes, comments about bodies with unrelated (not your own kids) children and adolescents can be grooming behavior.

 

You can glare and deny and make me out to be the one with the problem, but those are facts.

Edited July 8, 2017 by unsinkable

[unsinkable]

You have moved the goalposts from joining in the conversation to might wander by to happens to be in the house. So my response to the first version is being used to paint me as a ninny for being overly concerned about the later versions. That's unfair.

 

And actually there have been times in my life where I have discussed the mechanics of sex with a sister or trusted female friend. I think that's fairly normal. I don't know why it's being painted as an absurdity.

Yeah, the goalposts have definitely changed from Mergath originally saying the 13 yo boy sits and listens to conversations about sex and menopause and periods...and that he could leave if he didn't want to hear it... Edited July 8, 2017 by unsinkable

[Meadowlark]

The more I read the OP, the more it kind of bothers me.  Like it's kind of dissing the other parents that they respectfully listen to their children, even if it's during the course of the adult topic, instead of dismissing what their child has to say and sending them off to play.  My children really never even played beyond the age of 11.  They hung out with their friends.  Not played unless it was video games.  I can't imagine just dismissing my child, regardless of their age, if they had something they wanted to say to me. 

 

Even when I AM in the middle of a conversation, if my child runs up needing to address me, they have been taught to stand and patiently wait until there is a natural pause in the conversation, where they can ask for my attention to address whatever they may need.  It doesn't have to be deemed important by me or the other person in the conversation because it was apparently important to my child.  My first obligation is to my children no matter where we are.

 

 Well, lots to address here. I'll be as succinct as possible.

 

I'm not talking about respectfully listening to their children-of course it is ideal for parents to be respectful towards their children. I'm talking about the younger children (8-10, not teens) who lurk around purposely wanting to overhear the conversation. OR the children that interrupt..."Mom, remember that crawdad I caught at the creek yesterday? Wasn't it awesome?" while the adults are in the midst of a different conversation. At  the very least the parent could say "yes, honey, I do,  but mom is talking right now so maybe we can talk about the crawdad later". Or, if the conversation turned a bit personal and I thought the OTHER PERSON would be uncomfortable, I would send my kids off to play.  If that's "dissing" the other moms, than so be it. It seems incredibly child-centered to me.

 

Your children don't play over the age of 11 unless it's video games? How sad. Your last sentence also suggests that you are very child-centered. Taking the adults opinions and feelings into account is every bit important as your child's. 

[TechWife]

The more I read the OP, the more it kind of bothers me.  Like it's kind of dissing the other parents that they respectfully listen to their children, even if it's during the course of the adult topic, instead of dismissing what their child has to say and sending them off to play.  My children really never even played beyond the age of 11.  They hung out with their friends.  Not played unless it was video games.  I can't imagine just dismissing my child, regardless of their age, if they had something they wanted to say to me. 

 

Even when I AM in the middle of a conversation, if my child runs up needing to address me, they have been taught to stand and patiently wait until there is a natural pause in the conversation, where they can ask for my attention to address whatever they may need.  It doesn't have to be deemed important by me or the other person in the conversation because it was apparently important to my child.  My first obligation is to my children no matter where we are.

 

 

Thank you - very eloquently stated!