S/O Girls Can do Anything; Male Teachers

[Paige]

I went to DDs awards ceremony at school today and was struck that there were no male teachers and only 1 male in the office/admin area. Why do we focus so much on getting girls interested in STEM careers but we don't equally encourage boys to consider teaching or other female dominated fields? Is it only about the wage differences in those careers?

 

I can't help but think that the lack of male role models and the male perspective in the classroom, and especially elementary schools, contributes significantly to the problems young boys have in school. I think more men in the classroom could really have a positive impact on society, and would also increase wages for everyone. 

[maize]

Salaries and prestige.

[Guest]

Well and in all honesty why put up with what is typically a crappy job with no advancement potential filled with bureaucracy when you can go somewhere else and make twice the money and not have to deal with so much external bull. An awful lot of teachers I've known chose it out of an unrealistic ideology and then stayed for the flexibility with family, even after becoming quite disenchanted with the classroom. Men don't have the same concerns (in most cases) and so they don't put up with as much.

[J-rap]

What grade level are you talking about?  

 

This has been my observation through high school though.  Sadly lacking in male role models.

 

[EMS83]

I agree that we need more good men in the classrooms.  And a lot less bureaucracy.  ;)

[Arcadia]

My husband was offered a job as a community college lecturer. The pay at the time of offer was similar to what he was paid as an engineer. For him, the reason was classroom management for tutorials, as well as the education bureaucracy. He was in the military non-combat which also has lots of bureaucracy. The corporate world has less bureaucracy depending on which company you work for.

His ex-classmate (mutual friend) however doesn't mind teaching at a community college because bureaucracy is his security blanket. He loves having detailed lesson plans and rules/policies to follow.

 

I have two nephews who are teachers. They love classroom management and they like the same job for life so it suits them fine. Their mom (my cousin) was a child care teacher and now a group tutor.

 

When my kids were in K-8 public school, the only male staff (other than the security and janitors) was a science teacher. In 2010, that school retrenched 1/3 of the teachers in K-3 and some teachers in 4th to 8th. It sent a strong message to the kids in that school that teaching is not a recession proof job. One of the K female teacher who is a sole breadwinner was layoff. Another K female teacher who didn't need the income resigned so that the sole breadwinner lady teacher could keep her job.

 

I know lady teachers who quit because it was too stressful and become full time tutors instead. I know male math teachers who become math curriculum specialists so that they get a better pay and don't need to teach.

[lewelma]

Only tangentially related, but my ds's preschool teacher was male and 7 foot 4!!! 

[Paige]

What grade level are you talking about?  

 

This has been my observation through high school though.  Sadly lacking in male role models.

 

All grades, but especially the lower ones. I was at the elementary school. I see a trend where the older the students get the more male teachers. My college professors were close to a 50/50 split in gender, but below that it was almost all female.

 

I get that it can be a stressful job, but I also think if more men were teachers the conditions would improve for everyone. The solution should be to pay all teachers more to attract more men and more qualified people. 

[lovinmyboys]

There is literally one male who works at our local elementary school-the gym teacher. I do think it would be nice to have more.

[Guest]

Only tangentially related, but my ds's preschool teacher was male and 7 foot 4!!! 

 

That had to make for an epic class picture! 

[Crimson Wife]

Even back in the day when high school was more evenly split, the elementary school teaching staff was overwhelmingly female. I think a lot of it has to do with how elementary teaching is more arts & crafts and teaching "soft" skills while high school is more academic.

 

If my son were interested in teaching elementary, I would encourage him to go for one of the support positions like psychologist, occupational therapist, or speech therapist because the pay is quite a bit better. And these days it's not more years in school since my state requires getting a master's within so many years of the initial credential (5?)

[Crimson Wife]

It has also been my observation that male teachers move into administrative positions fairly quickly while most female teachers are content to stay classroom teachers. DH had a high school friend who taught for a few years, then did a joint MBA/M.Ed. and founded a charter school.

[school17777]

My ds's freshman year in high school was all male teachers. I think he had at least half of his teachers male the other years. In 8th grade, his first year in b&m school, 2/3s of his teachers were male.

 

My girls have had probably had at least half of their teachers male in middle and high school.

 

I don't think in a student in our school district could go through middle and high school without having a couple of male teachers. Some of the specials (or whatever they are called at that age), are taught by males, so all middle school students would have had a male teacher for sure just from those required classes, if they didn't happen to have a male teacher in their other classes. In high school, there's male teachers in all of the subjects, so I think it would hard to have a schedule where you didn't have a male teacher. I am wondering if our school district actually has more male teachers at the high school level than females.

 

There's only two male teachers in our elementary school and only one male admin.

Edited June 15, 2017 by school17777

[momacacia]

Wage differences to be sure. Why encourage my kids to go into a field where they'll get paid so little for the same amount of time on the job? Yes, they may need 2 more years of school for something else, but it seems it would be worth it for decades.of better pay.

[J-rap]

All grades, but especially the lower ones. I was at the elementary school. I see a trend where the older the students get the more male teachers. My college professors were close to a 50/50 split in gender, but below that it was almost all female.

 

I get that it can be a stressful job, but I also think if more men were teachers the conditions would improve for everyone. The solution should be to pay all teachers more to attract more men and more qualified people. 

 

Yes, I've seen the same in elementary schools.  I'd say that in our local elementary school, 90% are women and 10% are men.  It improves just a bit in middle school, and then more so in high school.

[Junie]

When I was in college, there were about 45 of us elem ed majors.  Of those 45, only 3 were guys.  One of the guys was also working towards a kindergarten endorsement.

 

We all received a lecture over one class period covering "improper" (not quite the word I am looking for, but close enough) student/teacher interactions.  But the guys got a "special" lecture from the standpoint of parents being more concerned about male teachers with kids, vs female teachers.  The guy working towards the kindy endorsement was actually actively discouraged, in class, from trying for that Kindy endorsement, with professors telling him that getting hired for that would be extremely difficult.

 

People tend to get freaked out over male teachers in the younger grades.  The truth is that so many of the improper relations between students and teachers happens in the upper grades, as the older gets mature.  But, people are still freaked out about elementary teachers as pedophiles. 

 

Really though also, a lot of guys have more difficulties interacting with kids, the younger they are.  I have heard of many guys who, when their kids are babies, they have absolutely NO idea what to do.  Then once the kids get to be like 2 or 3, more talkative and such, then the dads can interact a little more, but then they still don't REALLY dive in until their kids are like 8, 10 etc.  I am certainly not saying all guys are like that, just that I have heard dads say that in the past.  And I think that is something that can impact how many guys choose to teach in the younger grades. 

 

I have often said that if I go back to a classroom, it will be at the secondary level.  I am one who actually preferred teaching in the upper grades, even middle school level, over teaching the little kids.  I can understand how guys could prefer working with the older kids. 

 

Ds16 is really good with young kids (look at my signature: he's had a lot of practice  :lol: ).  I think he would do well in a kindergarten or early elementary classroom, but I don't know that he would be given a fair chance.  

 

Our church is not allowed to let men/boys work in the church nurseries because the insurance will not permit it.  They say it is too much of a liability.  I understand the need to protect the children, but automatically disqualifying someone because he is male is sexist and wrong.

 

 

ETA:  He's not interested in an education degree, but if he were I would certainly encourage him to major in elementary ed.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Junie

[Paige]

With all these reports lately about female teachers and inappropriate relationships with students, I don't think the men could be any worse. 

[SKL]

Come to think of it, my experience of having a male teacher for 2nd grade must be really unusual.  (He was a wonderful teacher.)

 

In my school and my kids' school, both K-8, they have more male teachers in grades 5-8.  At that level it's about 50/50.  I don't recall any in grades K-4 except for my 2nd grade teacher, and my brother's 4th grade teacher.  Though in the public schools, it may be common to have male gym teachers in K-6.  When I did student teaching for gym (3 schools, grades 2-4), all the gym teachers were male.  And all the band teachers I recall were male too.

[meena]

I have a male relative who was an elementary school teacher. It was a fallback career for him. He had a Master's in another field that he couldn't get hired in, so he started teaching to be able to pay back his student loans. He is now teaching overseas--much better pay/benefits and work schedule, less pressure over testing and performance. It was ridiculous how little he made teaching in a public school. He also worked a couple side jobs and tutored to try to get ahead. This was as a single man; I can't imagine how tough it would have been if he'd had a family to support as well.

[TheReader]

Both the low salary, and the false belief that men are less trustworthy with young children. I've heard over and over how people won't even let male teens/young adults babysit, just for the fact of being male. Also the low/poor benefits. 

 

It's nearly impossible to support a family on a teacher's salary, and the insurance is horrid. A male friend of ours is a teacher, his wife did not work, but they could barely make ends meet. Paycheck-to-paycheck, for sure, and the kids had to be on CHiP (and his wife remained uninsured) because the health care provided by the school district assumed that many of the teachers (the majority) were covered on their spouse's insurance plans, thus it was very bare-bones and VERY expensive to cover additional family members. 

 

 

[nixpix5]

It has to be a passion for males to go into these fields. There is just no point with such terrible pay and advancement potential. I think many women could easily choose more lucrative careers but often women are pulled by their passion towards these fields. Yes women can do anything and yes men can do anything but our limbic systems still tend to function under a bell curve a bit differently.

 

With that said I would love to see more male teachers and role models. When you get a good male teacher they can be some of the most powerful and memorable teachers. Everyone I talk to tends to remember that favorite male teacher who inspired them. Mine was in 5th grade and he has always been someone who inspired me.

[lewelma]

False belief that males are less trustworthy with young children

Our 7'4" male teacher asked us to cut a window into the bathroom so he could be observed while changing the kids nappies. This preschool had been in operation for 30 years in this facility with no need for a window. And let me be clear, *he* asked for it, not the parents. He wanted there to be no question.

Edited June 15, 2017 by lewelma

[school17777]

Wage differences to be sure. Why encourage my kids to go into a field where they'll get paid so little for the same amount of time on the job? Yes, they may need 2 more years of school for something else, but it seems it would be worth it for decades.of better pay.

Maybe that's why we have some male teachers because wages in our school district are not little pay. Average teacher salary in our school district is $81K. First year teachers start in the $50s. By contrast, the average household income in our school district is $60k (in 2009 - can't find a more recent number).

[Mergath]

Even here on this forum, people regularly say they would NEVER let a man be alone with their young children, even in a group setting like Sunday school. It's really not that surprising that men don't go into a profession where they're constantly going to be treated like a criminal despite having done nothing wrong.

[TrixieB]

My kid said there are more male teachers than female teachers at his high school.  He has only one female teacher this year.

 

ETA:  Thinking back to my high school days, 2/3 of my teachers were male my senior year.  Junior year was 2/3 male or 1/2 male, depending on the semester.  Freshman and sophomore years, my memory fails me.  It's too long ago.

Edited June 15, 2017 by TrixieB

[gardenmom5]

in my kids schools there have been lots of male teachers and/or staff.

1dd's 4/5 teacher was trained as a hs math teacher, and really pushed her as he saw her potential.

 

I was in high school in the 70s- but there were a lot of male teachers and staff.  even in the elementary and jr. high school there were lots of men.

Edited June 15, 2017 by gardenmom5

[Elfknitter.#]

Historically, careers like teaching, librarianship, and nursing have been seen as "Female Dominated" careers. In some decades this equated to lesser than men. When I became a Children's Librarian in the late 90s, this was discussed. It's funny to me now, 20 years later, for others to comment on it.

 

Whether the viewing of these careers as "roles for women" is right or wrong would probably lead to a banned discussion here.

 

To speak in only good ways, I like science and math are more available to girls and young women. I do not feel that boys and young men are slighted or disadvantaged by this in the least. But humankind still have much to learn about itself (unfortunately).

[lewelma]

That had to make for an epic class picture! 

 

You should have seen him sit it those tiny chairs!

[Carrie12345]

My own elementary school was definitely lacking male teachers, but my middle and high schools had a lot.  My son had at least 1 male teacher in elementary, that I can remember. (They didn't have the same teacher all day like I did.)

 

There are probably as many male teachers as female in my extended family.  

[FaithManor]

#1 being treated like a perv so my for being male.

#2 Low chance of being hired for the lower grades, see reason #1. I know the local school board would instantly toss a man's resume/application in the garbage for a k-6 position.

 

#3 Low, low pay. Entry level teacher pay is an average of $51,000 here except that is "average" meaning a lot of districts offer way less. Specialists in certain areas are the ones that make that number higher. Your go to non-well-to-do school district offers $33,000-35,000 that isn't much, student loans and required to begin pursuing a master's immediately! No thanks.

 

#4 No prestige. Male culture in our society is not pro men teaching young children, and only barely pro teaching middle or high school.

 

#5 Pay raises and advancement are slow.

 

#6 I see a lot of parents encouraging girls to pursue their dreams but telling boys they need to think about supporting families.

 

#7 Regional culture. Some areas willingly have a lot more men involved than here. This area is uber, traditional...stereotypical gender roles, skeptical and a bit judgmental of those who don't do "the usual". DH is the ONLY male 4H leader in a three county radius. The few male teachers we have in these schools are PE/sports coaches, physics, chemistry, skill center - automotive, woodworking, electrical - and mathematics. A male history, fine arts, foreign language, or English major would be am rare sighting. Band directors were often male back in my day, but not any more. Again that "man needs a job that can support a family" concept. Music teaching jobs are few and far between these days, so no encouragement.

[vonfirmath]

When I was in college, there were about 45 of us elem ed majors.  Of those 45, only 3 were guys.  One of the guys was also working towards a kindergarten endorsement.

 

My daughter's K teacher was male.  He was -fabulous- and she was so lucky to have him.

 

My son has also had a male teacher (There are two at the 3rd grade level).  It was good for him but went back to being female this past year. We'll see what time gives us since both of his teachers are not coming back next year. (Normally he'd have the same two primary teachers in 4th grade and 5th)

[TheReader]

Our 7'4" male teacher asked us to cut a window into the bathroom so he could be observed while changing the kids nappies. This preschool had been in operation for 30 years in this facility with no need for a window. And let me be clear, *he* asked for it, not the parents. He wanted there to be no question.

 

Our church, way back when, DH & I worked in the 3-yr old classroom. Some of those kids still needed help in the bathroom, etc. Men were not allowed to take kids to the bathroom or change diapers, period. Women could take boys or girls to the bathroom, or change either gender's diapers. Men, nope. Not even with someone else watching. And we had to have a 3rd person in the room so that if I had to take someone to the bathroom, my DH wasn't alone with the kids (even though the bathroom was attached to the room). 

 

Boys/men get a really raw, unfair deal when it comes to stuff like this. It makes perfect sense to me that they'd avoid subjecting themselves to that level of scrutiny for a low-paying job like this. 

[SKL]

Oh, and I have a friend who is a male elementary school teacher.  I think he teaches upper elementary.

 

His wife has a professional career that is very demanding year-round and pays better than teaching.  So he was a stay-at-home dad for some time, and he continues to do most of the kid things.  It works for them.  :)

[Dmmetler]

In my experience, administrators want male teachers in schools, but tend to hire them for older grades, regardless of their certifications and interests.My advisees were those majoring in ELED with an ECED emphasis, but the handful of males I had go through all were hired for grades 4+, and many for 6-8, despite having focused their coursework on K-3. It was also typical for them to be assigned to student teach in 4+, but only observe in K-3.

[HeWillSoar]

Some of the best teachers my son had in middle and high school were male teachers.  There were some good female teachers too but almost all the male teachers he had were stand outs.  My son and his friends used to spend their lunch period in the classroom of one of his male teachers--they liked him that much.  Two of his math teachers were male and I think they were instrumental in inspiring my son to go as far as he did.  I'm really thankful that he could have those role models in his life, and I think it would be great to have more men teaching.