"Women and men cannot ever be friends." Agree or disagree

[DawnM]

I have plenty of male friends, even close ones I would go to dinner with or who I talk to on the phone on occasion, without DH.

 

However, all of the ones I am really close to were friends with me before I met DH.  I haven't made new close male friends I would make a dinner date (not date, date, just friend date) since being married, although we have friends who I have texted the husband for various things, usually about our kids getting together or something.....

 

And I have work friends, but again, I don't do more than a lunch thing with them while on a work deal.  I don't phone them up to have dinner with me or meet me for lunch alone outside of work.

 

 

 

 

[heartlikealion]

I guess I don't see it as the end of the world if I have to tell someone no because they are crossing a line that I don't want to cross.  Or if my husband has to do so.  It may mean that the friendship is ended.  Oh well.  I mean, I want to be friends with people who share my values, right?  Including ones who want to support me in my relationship with my husband.  Anyone who doesn't want to do that, whether male or female, isn't someone who I want to be friends with. 

 

Maybe I've watched too much TV lol but on the shows it often comes on suddenly where the people have to jerk away to stop the physical touch from happening. Yeah you can say, "stop" or "no" and move, but at that point I'd feel like I could have been proactive instead. Crossing the line might not be physical, but it might be too subtle to say, "you're crossing the line." I know a lot of us have watched Parenthood. I don't think all of us expected one of the indiscretions.

 

 

Come on, Adam Braverman. You could have waited in the car or had someone else drive that girl home

 

 

This is a "to each their own" topic, but I just don't think it's so strange for some people to do what they feel is just being proactive.

[IfIOnly]

I guess I don't see it as the end of the world if I have to tell someone no because they are crossing a line that I don't want to cross. Or if my husband has to do so. It may mean that the friendship is ended. Oh well. I mean, I want to be friends with people who share my values, right? Including ones who want to support me in my relationship with my husband. Anyone who doesn't want to do that, whether male or female, isn't someone who I want to be friends with.

It's not the end of the world for me, I just don't want to deal with drama. I got tired it. After marriage, the side eye from women just because you are friendly and act like their hubby exists sucks. Not always, but often enough that I'm just guarded in this area. I mean I feel like these women obviously have different opinions about the issue or there's back story or hurt.

 

That's great some of you have so littl drama, but ime, woman can be threatened by plain old friendliness and guys (married or not) can take plain old friendliness wrong too.

Edited April 2, 2017 by ifIonlyhadabrain

[Farrar]

It's interesting to me that the poll does not reflect the conversation that well. As in, nearly everyone allowed for the possibility that men and women could be friends, but nearly half the people in discussion seemed to think it didn't really happen/didn't apply to their lives/wasn't anything they'd really seen... As if the male-female friendship is some rare and fragile thing, only occasionally spotted in the wild.

 

Sigh.

[pinkmint]

I am of the view that women and men can be friends but that we should be wise and realistic. Spending alone time should pretty much be avoided. I know this view is unpopular but that's ok.

 

For what it's worth, every single male (what I thought was) platonic friendship, they ended up making a move. Many many times this happened in my life.

 

Personally I think people are often naive about these things.

[Katy]

Or a third thing that can happen is you continue a true friendship, not act on any sexual urges, and the attraction goes away . Why would you have to fake a friendship because you are sexually attracted to someone? It is possible to be sexually attracted to someone and make the decision to never act or attempt to act on those feelings.

 

My best friend, for example, who I knew was attracted to my dh even before we started dated immediately chose my friendship over any attraction she had for him. She didn't have to fake her friendship for him. Eventually those feelings went away. Now she's happily married and we've all remained friends the whole time.

 

See I don't see this as an exception, but more of a nuance:  Your friend chose to not be attracted to your DH anymore because she valued you over the attraction.  You can choose who you're attracted to, to at least some degree.  You can choose your feelings about anything.

[HTRMom]

Has nobody else watched When Harry Met Sally? "Men and women can't be friends. The sex always gets in the way."

 

I have friends who are men. It's a real friendship, but less intimate than with friends who are women. I don't make one-on-one plans with them usually but don't go out of my way to avoid being alone with them either. My male friends all happen to be single. My husband doesn't have any female friends, except my friends.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[heartlikealion]

See I don't see this as an exception, but more of a nuance:  Your friend chose to not be attracted to your DH anymore because she valued you over the attraction.  You can choose who you're attracted to, to at least some degree.  You can choose your feelings about anything.

 

I don't think you can completely choose things. You can try to block the thoughts or feelings and maybe successfully move past them, but I don't know if it's totally fair to say this as a blanket statement. Besides, what woman is going to admit, "yes, I am still attracted to your spouse?" I wouldn't ask.

 

[Laura Corin]

In this case I would guess that the suggestion would be that a bisexual woman spend more time with her straight friends rather than gay female friends? If that's applicable. I really think the answer is going to depend on the individuals involved. Obviously not every partner is going to feel uncomfortable with outside relationships or specific friends. YMMV

 

But one of those 'straight' friends might be one of those sneaky bi people.  One just never knows.  There's a lot of the world that passes for straight because they happen to have ended up with an opposite sex partner.

 

Much, much better for spouses to just trust each other not to cheat.

[LucyStoner]

If the only thing that is keeping my husband or I faithful is a mere lack of opportunity to cheat (in the form of never being alone with members of the sex we are attracted to), I say we have a problem even if no one cheats.

Edited April 2, 2017 by LucyStoner

[IfIOnly]

Has nobody else watched When Harry Met Sally? "Men and women can't be friends. The sex always gets in the way."

 

I have friends who are men. It's a real friendship, but less intimate than with friends who are women. I don't make one-on-one plans with them usually but don't go out of my way to avoid being alone with them either. My male friends all happen to be single. My husband doesn't have any female friends, except my friends.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those fundi, patriarchy producers, you know? Or maybe, it's relatable to a decent number of people and is just the way life has played out for some to some degree.

[Guest]

See I don't see this as an exception, but more of a nuance: Your friend chose to not be attracted to your DH anymore because she valued you over the attraction. You can choose who you're attracted to, to at least some degree. You can choose your feelings about anything.

You can certainly choose to keep your mouth shut.

 

If people remembered that not every feeling has to be voiced, then I'd unabashedly without reserve declare women and men can obviously and of course be friends.

 

Alas.

[heartlikealion]

But one of those 'straight' friends might be one of those sneaky bi people.  One just never knows.  There's a lot of the world that passes for straight because they happen to have ended up with an opposite sex partner.

 

Much, much better for spouses to just trust each other not to cheat.

 

Lol I get what you're saying but again, this doesn't always mean someone doesn't trust their spouse. It can merely be that they are protecting an image or protecting their spouse from someone that will make a move which the spouse then has to address. Something that could have been avoided all together had they not set up the one on one interactions outside of work in the first place.

 

[heartlikealion]

I feel like this thread is going like this

 

person A: Lifevests are a good idea

person B: why? You don't trust the life guard?

person A: it's not that... it's just, I don't want to see this person I care about possibly in a bad situation

person B: I can't believe you don't just trust the lifeguard

 

Not everyone that is in favor of "life vests" distrusts the lifeguard (spouse)

 

[unsinkable]

It's interesting to me that the poll does not reflect the conversation that well. As in, nearly everyone allowed for the possibility that men and women could be friends, but nearly half the people in discussion seemed to think it didn't really happen/didn't apply to their lives/wasn't anything they'd really seen... As if the male-female friendship is some rare and fragile thing, only occasionally spotted in the wild.

 

Sigh.

You mean the poll doesn't show the complexity of personal relationships and all the nuance that is involved?

 

That wasn't my intention.

 

I wanted to know how commonly held the belief that "men and women cannot ever be friends" is on these boards.

[Farrar]

You mean the poll doesn't show the complexity of personal relationships and all the nuance that is involved?

 

That wasn't my intention.

 

I wanted to know how commonly held the belief that "men and women cannot ever be friends" is on these boards.

 

It's more than that though. The poll implies that most members are completely fine with men and women being friends or think it's normal. The reality is that a large portion of the members are not accepting of male-female friendships in their own lives or believe they're rare or unusual. I think that's not merely nuance.

 

I suppose if the question is have any men and women been friends ever... then you have your answer. But if the question is more can men and women generally be friends or commonly be friends, then I don't think the poll shows what people discussed here. Many people think yes, but a significant number think no.

[Guest]

It's interesting to me that the poll does not reflect the conversation that well. As in, nearly everyone allowed for the possibility that men and women could be friends, but nearly half the people in discussion seemed to think it didn't really happen/didn't apply to their lives/wasn't anything they'd really seen... As if the male-female friendship is some rare and fragile thing, only occasionally spotted in the wild.

 

Sigh.

Well I think men and women can be friends, but I don't actually see a lot of non couple friendships in real life. Heck, I only have ONE and the friend in question is from years ago and long distance, casual (he may even be hypothetical ;) ) . My husband and I literally only have couples friends now when it comes to the opposite sex. If I'm friends with the wife I'm friends with the husband, but nobody who I'd say I'm only friends with one of them. I have some male acquaintances through my work, but they're not really friends in the 'hang out or talk outside of meetings about unrelated topics' kind. When you're married I'd say my experience is that those friendships end up much more limited, maybe by necessity but I'd guess it's more just practical. We hand out as couples and families now, almost exclusively, in the small slice of time we have to do so.

 

That's just my experience though. My husband has no female friends he hangs out with or talks to except a few older ladies (like, his mother's age) who we deal with through politics and such. And they're family friends of both of us, he just does more interfacing because of organizational and event coordination stuff. So I'd say that probably doesn't count.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Farrar]

Well I think men and women can be friends, but I don't actually see a lot of non couple friendships in real life. Heck, I only have ONE and the friend in question is from years ago and long distance, casual. My husband and I literally only have couples friends now when it comes to the opposite sex. If I'm friends with the wife I'm friends with the husband, but nobody who I'd say I'm only friends with one of them. I have some male acquaintances through my work, but they're not really friends in the 'hang out or talk outside of meetings about unrelated topics' kind. When you're married I'd say my experience is that those friendships end up much more limited, maybe by necessity but I'd guess it's more just practical. We hand out as couples and families now, almost exclusively, in the small slice of time we have to do so.

 

That's just my experience though. My husband has no female friends he hangs out with or talks to except a few older ladies (like, his mother's age) who we deal with through politics and such. And they're family friends of both of us, he just does more interfacing because of organizational and event coordination stuff. So I'd say that probably doesn't count.

 

I can see that. That's not what my experience is like though. I've been friends with homeschool dads. I'm friends with some guys from various things in my life. Dh has a lot of theater friends he sees - many of them are women of varied ages.

 

I wonder if the bigger issue too is that many people in general don't have friends. That's perhaps a bigger question, but I feel like I've seen a lot of threads here over the years where people say they don't have a good friend to talk to at all - only casual friendships. When you're already limited, well...

[Guest]

Hm, maybe for some people - I've heard the same around here.

 

Me though? I can name at least a dozen couples we count on our very good friends list though, and those are just the ones we live near right now. We send out almost 125 Christmas cards each year. I have another handful of close mom friends and that is after I pruned my friendships in the years after college (growing apart and choosing not to stay in contact with some people due to drama or differences that made friendship challenging).

 

I'd say my friendships reflect my life choices in church, education, and politics. All of those involve lots of couples and nuclear families in general, so I suppose it isn't surprising that I wouldn't even have much chance to socialize with just s male even if I wanted to (which I don't, that sounds weird to me when I say it). But it's rare I even come across an unmarried man, outside of the guy who does my nails :D

Edited April 3, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[LucyStoner]

I feel like this thread is going like this

 

person A: Lifevests are a good idea

person B: why? You don't trust the life guard?

person A: it's not that... it's just, I don't want to see this person I care about possibly in a bad situation

person B: I can't believe you don't just trust the lifeguard

 

Not everyone that is in favor of "life vests" distrusts the lifeguard (spouse)

 

Or perhaps some people can swim without floaties.  

[unsinkable]

It's more than that though. The poll implies that most members are completely fine with men and women being friends or think it's normal. The reality is that a large portion of the members are not accepting of male-female friendships in their own lives or believe they're rare or unusual. I think that's not merely nuance.

 

I suppose if the question is have any men and women been friends ever... then you have your answer. But if the question is more can men and women generally be friends or commonly be friends, then I don't think the poll shows what people discussed here. Many people think yes, but a significant number think no.

Well, I tallied the posts:

 

friends: 32

not friends: 2

other: 7

 

If someone wrote yes, they can be friends, I counted that as "friends." If someone wasnt sure or said other, I counted that as other.

 

The rest of the posts...over 70...were discussing the details, nuances and friendship situations they've experienced.

 

I'm left with the impression that the vast majority of people here are and can be and have been and will be friends with men.

 

(I don't recall a man posting, maybe some voted. )

Edited April 3, 2017 by unsinkable

[heartlikealion]

Or perhaps some people can swim without floaties.  

 

Yes but that doesn't deserve mocking others for their choices. "My swimmer is perfect. I can't believe you'd need floaties."

 

Some people's environment may feel more like a kiddie pool, some more like a regular size pool and some maybe more like roaring rapids. Waves can catch even the best swimmers off guard.

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by heartlikealion

[Farrar]

I feel like this thread is going like this

 

person A: Lifevests are a good idea

person B: why? You don't trust the life guard?

person A: it's not that... it's just, I don't want to see this person I care about possibly in a bad situation

person B: I can't believe you don't just trust the lifeguard

 

Not everyone that is in favor of "life vests" distrusts the lifeguard (spouse)

 

But it does imply you don't trust something... the water? The danger? Surely it's less comfortable for many to swim with life vests. You can't swim laps in a life vest. I suppose you can argue that for people who can't swim, life vests are appropriate, but honestly, I feel like as adults, unless there's some specific reason, we should learn to swim. You don't get anywhere near the benefits of swimming if you wear a vest and float there. It makes me a bit sad to think that so many people would rather wear a vest than swim and get some exercise and really enjoy the water.

 

And this is like the third time today I've taken a metaphor too far.

[heartlikealion]

But it does imply you don't trust something... the water? The danger? Surely it's less comfortable for many to swim with life vests. You can't swim laps in a life vest. I suppose you can argue that for people who can't swim, life vests are appropriate, but honestly, I feel like as adults, unless there's some specific reason, we should learn to swim. You don't get anywhere near the benefits of swimming if you wear a vest and float there. It makes me a bit sad to think that so many people would rather wear a vest than swim and get some exercise and really enjoy the water.

 

And this is like the third time today I've taken a metaphor too far.

 

:laugh:

 

Yeah I don't trust the water or something else in the water. It's not about the swimmer. That's what's so annoying is that people that don't live in shark infested waters are saying, "what's wrong with your swimmer?"

[Guest]

Oh no, please continue with the metaphor. This sunbather is highly amused at the life vested and floaty eschewing population.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[unsinkable]

I feel like this thread is going like this

 

person A: Lifevests are a good idea

person B: why? You don't trust the life guard?

person A: it's not that... it's just, I don't want to see this person I care about possibly in a bad situation

person B: I can't believe you don't just trust the lifeguard

 

Not everyone that is in favor of "life vests" distrusts the lifeguard (spouse)

Lifeguard: NO RUNNING ON THE DECK!!!

[JustEm]

See I don't see this as an exception, but more of a nuance: Your friend chose to not be attracted to your DH anymore because she valued you over the attraction. You can choose who you're attracted to, to at least some degree. You can choose your feelings about anything.

No she very clearly chose to ignore her feelings because we were friends. The attraction didn't magically go away because I started dating him. I know how long it took her to no longer be attracted to dh because she was honest about it. And it wasn't merely a few days or weeks. In her mind their friendship was progressing to more than a friendship, and it easily could have had I not been in the picture. She couldn't just get rid of those feelings once it was revealed dh liked me over her. Eventually she did but in the meantime​ she still remained friends with dh.

 

For me, I've never been able to choose who I'm attracted to. I've had inner struggles because i couldn't figure out why I was attracted to someone because the attraction made no sense. The concept of having control over who you are attracted to is foreign to me. But the way you act or don't act upon that attraction is where choice comes into play.

[Scarlett]

Hm, maybe for some people - I've heard the same around here.

 

Me though? I can name at least a dozen couples we count on our very good friends list though, and those are just the ones we live near right now. We send out almost 125 Christmas cards each year. I have another handful of close mom friends and that is after I pruned my friendships in the years after college (growing apart and choosing not to stay in contact with some people due to drama or differences that made friendship challenging).

 

I'd say my friendships reflect my life choices in church, education, and politics. All of those involve lots of couples and nuclear families in general, so I suppose it isn't surprising that I wouldn't even have much chance to socialize with just s male even if I wanted to (which I don't, that sounds weird to me when I say it). But it's rare I even come across an unmarried man, outside of the guy who does my nails :D

That is how our life looks too. We have a lot of friends. But we hang our with couples almost exclusively. That is just the way our life is set up.

[SporkUK]

But one of those 'straight' friends might be one of sneaky bi people.  One just never knows.  There's a lot of the world that passes for straight because they happen to have ended up with an opposite sex partner.

 

Much, much better for spouses to just trust each other not to cheat.

 

Yeah, some friends and I discussed once a not uncommon situation particularly when we were much younger where after one person came out, others in a social circle would follow within a year like we were all penguins huddling together for safety before we even knew it.  :lol:

 

Personally, thinking about it now, pretty much all my women friends in person are bisexual or lesbians. The guys are a bit more evenly split between straight, gay, and bi. My spouse actively encourages me to go out more with them and to go to and arrange LB events and groups because, in his word, I come home so much happier. After spending an evening with women who get all of it when most of my days are kids and guys and such, it's just uplifting even if we just sit in a pub talking for hours. I think it would hurt me a lot if he tried to discourage that from his own fears rather than what he thought was best for me and us. 

 

A thought I've had on this as I started writing this - I started getting crushes fairly young and very easily and learned early how to sit with those feelings for a while to see what they would become and still be social. Most of the time it's gone within a few weeks if that. I think a lot of our society and social messaging treats those feelings as all important and must be expressed and it must mean something important if I'm having strong feelings...when really they're much like other emotions, out of our control, but they change and are influenced by our actions. I've had super strong talk about all the time crushes that within a month turned into 'meh, they're okay to go to events to, I guess' reactions. I'm a bisexual woman who was actively polyamorous before I moved in with my now spouse and in the 14 years since I've only been with him. I sometimes joke it's because I've gotten a lot picker with people as I've gotten older as my spouse would be very tough act to follow, but I think some of it is that I don't chase my feelings, I know they're unreliable and I can openly talk them out with my spouse and with my friends who are similar. Some of the cheaters I've known, mostly within my own family, seem now to me to have been chasing a feeling or at least an ideal of a feeling and then gotten angry that it wasn't sustainable regardless of their actions. 

 

I think emotional and personal understanding and responsibility and maybe accountability has far more to do with being able to maintain friendships and relationships than simply access but how people want or maybe need to put those things into their lives is likely different. Personally, the more caring people and connections I have the better my life is and I would rather just talk out all the feelings and issues along the way and I know I get strong feelings very easily and how to act with them. I also know others who specifically choose 'easy', in their words, friendships that are the most likely to be mutually supportive without hidden surprises or things to worry about because that works for them and for some that will be along gender lines. I don't think it can be applied as a general rule as people are too complicated and different for that, and I've unfortunately known cheaters and abusers who've used this line as a way to explain their actions which never made sense to me,  but I can see why some people apply it to themselves if it fits their lived experience and it works for them. 

 

EDIT: In short, to use the swimming metaphor, I get why others may want a life vest; I do not get why anyone thinks I should be wearing one when they don't know my abilities or what if any waters I'm intending to be near when I can decide for myself. I cannot find one to use with strangers who in my life are more likely to break the no roughhousing rules than the people I invited with me. Better swimming instruction and responsibility would help. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by SporkUK

[regentrude]

I'd say my friendships reflect my life choices in church, education, and politics. All of those involve lots of couples and nuclear families in general, so I suppose it isn't surprising that I wouldn't even have much chance to socialize with just s male even if I wanted to (which I don't, that sounds weird to me when I say it). But it's rare I even come across an unmarried man, outside of the guy who does my nails 

 

Experiences obviously vary a great deal; I encounter unmarried men every day.

Teaching at an engineering school, I am surrounded by hundreds of unmarried younger men, LOL.

But even among colleagues, there are quite a number of unmarried men. Of my 14 male colleagues in my department, 5 are single (i.e, not just unmarried, but not even in a relationship), and I happen to be good friends (= dinners at our house) with three of them and friendly (=stop by office and chat) with the other two. Another one was single for a long time while we were friends (= dinners and float trips together) and is now married. Our best friend who moved away was single for a long time after his divorce. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by regentrude

[LucyStoner]

Yes but that doesn't deserve mocking others for their choices. "My swimmer is perfect. I can't believe you'd need floaties."

 

Some people's environment may feel more like a kiddie pool, some more like a regular size pool and some maybe more like roaring rapids. Waves can catch even the best swimmers off guard.

 

 

I'm not mocking anyone.  If someone needs floaties, a life vest and a pool noodle and will only swim when there are two lifeguards in a man-made swimming pool that is not deeper than their waist, I do not give a damn. 

 

On the other hand, perhaps the people who don't choose to have cross-gender friendships could understand and accept that other people live differently and do so without any naivety or foolishness.  Reading here, I am to believe that I am being naive and taking a big risk whenever I see a man without my husband there to chaperone me.  Frankly, that's ridiculous in my life and makes zero sense.  My best male friend is not a wave waiting to knock me down.  How do I know? I know the same way I know that I am not on the market for sexual contact with anyone besides my husband.  

[SKL]

It's more than that though. The poll implies that most members are completely fine with men and women being friends or think it's normal. The reality is that a large portion of the members are not accepting of male-female friendships in their own lives or believe they're rare or unusual. I think that's not merely nuance.

 

I suppose if the question is have any men and women been friends ever... then you have your answer. But if the question is more can men and women generally be friends or commonly be friends, then I don't think the poll shows what people discussed here. Many people think yes, but a significant number think no.

 

Well the poll said "ever" and the responses are discussing why it's complex in reality.

 

A person is allowed to say "it's possible" and then qualify that, right?

 

How about "a child cannot ever begin to read at age 2."  The answer would say "disagree" and the comments would say "it happens, but ...."

 

I think the message in the comments is that, in the experience / observation of many people, the survival rate of platonic male-female friendships is unfortunately low (compared to same-sex friendships).  We may wish it were higher, but we observe what we observe in our lives.

 

FTR I answered "other," because I felt the topic was not black and white.  Others, however, apparently answered the direct question as it was stated, then qualified it in the comments.  That is rather common on this board.

[creekland]

Me though? I can name at least a dozen couples we count on our very good friends list though, and those are just the ones we live near right now. 

 

If I recall correctly, you're still pretty young (comparatively).  What happens when you've lived another decade or two and your couple friends start losing their partners via either divorce or death.  Do you just drop the males and let them fend for themselves or do they get to remain friends?

 

We were just in FL meeting several older folks - seniors - and it was pretty darn common that one spouse or another had passed away.  In the social group males and females were friends - doing things together from sailing to meals to activities both inside and outside the home.  It gave a true community feel to it even though few were married.  Hubby and I absolutely loved how it felt and were glad we got a taste of it.  It's the type of community we want both now and when we grow up.

 

If one doesn't have a sense of community, I could easily see a bit of isolation if/when a partner passes away - esp if groups start not inviting you over anymore.

[heartlikealion]

I'm not mocking anyone.  If someone needs floaties, a life vest and a pool noodle and will only swim when there are two lifeguards in a man-made swimming pool that is not deeper than their waist, I do not give a damn. 

 

On the other hand, perhaps the people who don't choose to have cross-gender friendships could understand and accept that other people live differently and do so without any naivety or foolishness.  Reading here, I am to believe that I am being naive and taking a big risk whenever I see a man without my husband there to chaperone me.  Frankly, that's ridiculous in my life and makes zero sense.  My best male friend is not a wave waiting to knock me down.  How do I know? I know the same way I know that I am not on the market for sexual contact with anyone besides my husband.  

 

I do think a lot of it has to do with individuals so no, I don't automatically assume there's a big risk involved in every case. I also believe that developing feelings or being uncomfortable can happen without any ounce of physical contact so sticking to "I am not on the market for sexual contact" doesn't address other issues like emotional affairs or lust of the heart.

 

[creekland]

I'm not mocking anyone.  If someone needs floaties, a life vest and a pool noodle and will only swim when there are two lifeguards in a man-made swimming pool that is not deeper than their waist, I do not give a damn. 

 

On the other hand, perhaps the people who don't choose to have cross-gender friendships could understand and accept that other people live differently and do so without any naivety or foolishness.  Reading here, I am to believe that I am being naive and taking a big risk whenever I see a man without my husband there to chaperone me.  Frankly, that's ridiculous in my life and makes zero sense.  My best male friend is not a wave waiting to knock me down.  How do I know? I know the same way I know that I am not on the market for sexual contact with anyone besides my husband.  

 

Heck... we scuba dive.  I very rarely swim in pools.  They're incredibly boring - like being a goldfish in a bowl.  I'd rather go where the fish are in the BIG nature-made tanks.   :coolgleamA:

[SKL]

For me, I've never been able to choose who I'm attracted to. I've had inner struggles because i couldn't figure out why I was attracted to someone because the attraction made no sense. The concept of having control over who you are attracted to is foreign to me. But the way you act or don't act upon that attraction is where choice comes into play.

 

Yes, I've had good chemistry with people who were illogical mates for me.  I had to fight it pretty hard to return to / stay on the right path.  I've made a fool out of myself a couple times.  Not proud of it.  Just honest.

 

[Roadrunner]

Absolutely yes. My best friend is a guy. We have been friends since we were five years old. Yes, it's long distance now, but we are very close and talk all the time.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have made friends who are guys both before and after my marriage.

I've always worked in male professions, except when I was a SAHM.

My husband trusts me, and he is right to do so.

 

But, it would be pretty unusual to have dinner with one of them, unless we were both out of town or something.  Lunch yes; that's part of the business day.  But not dinner, really.

 

And I make it a point to be quite friendly to their wives if I meet them, and hope that they don't ever worry about me getting too close to their husbands.  

[SporkUK]

Yes, I've had good chemistry with people who were illogical mates for me.  I had to fight it pretty hard to return to / stay on the right path.  I've made a fool out of myself a couple times.  Not proud of it.  Just honest.

 

 

I have as well.

 

I think a big problem is there is so little in society that tells us what to do when that happens so it does feel like a fight. Like I'm currently struggling to think of a book or movie or show that represents how to handle that well - it's either ignored as not happening one true love style or it's treated as drama/comedy/shameful that we get emotions. The lack of representation and ways to handle it without guilt or blaming causes a lot of people problems, I think. 

[LucyStoner]

I do think a lot of it has to do with individuals so no, I don't automatically assume there's a big risk involved in every case. I also believe that developing feelings or being uncomfortable can happen without any ounce of physical contact so sticking to "I am not on the market for sexual contact" doesn't address other issues like emotional affairs or lust of the heart.

 

 

I'm not in the market for that either.  

 

In 15 years, it has happened once that I felt very attracted to someone besides my husband.  I mean, I'm not dead, I see attractive men all the time but I wouldn't say I was attracted to any of them.  In this case, I was very drawn to a person who I lacked any real sense of physical attraction for.  It was apparent that had I been interested in starting a relationship, he was interested and he, unlike my husband and I, was not a monogamous person so he would have had no compunction about us having an affair.  I shut that down. Fast.  Because I am a grown ass woman, who doesn't passively let things get carried away.  And there was no way, no how that I was going to sacrifice my marriage.  

 

If I excluded men from my social and professional life, including a man who is like a brother to me and who literally will raise our children if we drop dead, to prevent that one time I was attracted to someone else, I would be paying a very high price.  And my life would be far worse for it.  

Edited April 3, 2017 by LucyStoner

[Guest]

If I recall correctly, you're still pretty young (comparatively). What happens when you've lived another decade or two and your couple friends start losing their partners via either divorce or death. Do you just drop the males and let them fend for themselves or do they get to remain friends?

 

We were just in FL meeting several older folks - seniors - and it was pretty darn common that one spouse or another had passed away. In the social group males and females were friends - doing things together from sailing to meals to activities both inside and outside the home. It gave a true community feel to it even though few were married. Hubby and I absolutely loved how it felt and were glad we got a taste of it. It's the type of community we want both now and when we grow up.

 

If one doesn't have a sense of community, I could easily see a bit of isolation if/when a partner passes away - esp if groups start not inviting you over anymore.

You reminded me that we actually do have a single guy friend and he is pretty amazing. He is a widower and has some grown sons in another state. This man is a precious friend to us and we definitely socialize with him, why wouldn't we? I'd say he is closer to my husband than me but he is a friend to each of us.

 

I'm not one who thinks men and women can't be friends, just that I don't have a whole lot of unattached friends. The single women friends I have and the men like the one mentioned above are fantastic. It just so happens that we are in groups filled with married folks. Even the older members of our church and activities tend to be married and a few are widowed or remarries. Just not that much opportunity for single person friendships or either sex. But I don't personally have a problem with them.

 

Our community group (at church) has a big range of ages and experiences, which is one of the reasons we love it. That's where we met this individual and also several older widowed ladies who we love dearly too.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Catwoman]

It's more than that though. The poll implies that most members are completely fine with men and women being friends or think it's normal. The reality is that a large portion of the members are not accepting of male-female friendships in their own lives or believe they're rare or unusual. I think that's not merely nuance.

 

I suppose if the question is have any men and women been friends ever... then you have your answer. But if the question is more can men and women generally be friends or commonly be friends, then I don't think the poll shows what people discussed here. Many people think yes, but a significant number think no.

As of now, 181 people have answered that yes, men and women can be friends, 7 have said no they can't, and 20 chose the "other" option.

 

Nowhere near 208 people have actually posted comments on this thread, so I'm still going to assume that most members of this forum (at least those who participated in the poll) are of the opinion that men and women can be friends because the poll results are so overwhelmingly in the "yes" column.

 

The OP in this thread seemed pretty clear to me, so I doubt many people misunderstood it.

[gaillardia]

I was just talking to a guy I used to work with, on the phone. We live hundreds of miles from each other, we were good friends, hung out together sometimes when we were both married and no kids yet. Did anything happen? No. I knew my stand. Would I go places or do things with him now? No, most likely not because I am a different person, but we are still friends. Would our spouses like it if we hung out together without them? No, they would not. So, as families or as couples, yes. 

Okay to be friends at work and work together? I think so. You can't not work in some situations. I am friends with lots of guys, from school, work, more work, other friends, friends' brothers, ex-in-laws. But for the most part, I would not be alone with other guys who are friends on a social level unless it was uncommon and highly necessary circumstances. It really depends on the circumstances.

[Rosie_0801]

I have as well.

 

I think a big problem is there is so little in society that tells us what to do when that happens so it does feel like a fight. Like I'm currently struggling to think of a book or movie or show that represents how to handle that well - it's either ignored as not happening one true love style or it's treated as drama/comedy/shameful that we get emotions. The lack of representation and ways to handle it without guilt or blaming causes a lot of people problems, I think. 

 

You've reminded me of this: http://www.thebookoflife.org/on-the-madness-and-charm-of-crushes/

[FaithManor]

If I recall correctly, you're still pretty young (comparatively). What happens when you've lived another decade or two and your couple friends start losing their partners via either divorce or death. Do you just drop the males and let them fend for themselves or do they get to remain friends?

 

We were just in FL meeting several older folks - seniors - and it was pretty darn common that one spouse or another had passed away. In the social group males and females were friends - doing things together from sailing to meals to activities both inside and outside the home. It gave a true community feel to it even though few were married. Hubby and I absolutely loved how it felt and were glad we got a taste of it. It's the type of community we want both now and when we grow up.

 

If one doesn't have a sense of community, I could easily see a bit of isolation if/when a partner passes away - esp if groups start not inviting you over anymore.

Yes this. We have a dear friend who lost his wife and is single parenting two young girls. I spend a lot of time helping him navigate girl world including time spent without my dh around or his girls when he wants to talk about difficult topics. ..most recently that his eldest is going to need to get her first bra. And he feels lost, and misses his wife so badly. And I hugged him when he cried.

 

No problems. No guilt. No affair. I cannot imagine abandoning him. What a terrible thing to do to a friend. Oh my word just no.

 

I am not his only female friend walking this path with him. He needs to know we have his back, and will do everything we can to help he and his girls survive this.

 

I would hope if something happened to dh, my male friends would not abandon the boys and me. The very thought is just gut wrenching.

 

Right now with the insanity my mom is enduring with my father figure one of her long term male friends who lost his wife many moons ago has been coming to help her. No romance. No affair, just people caring for people.

[Guest]

Who mentioned abandoning anyone? I'm totally confused as to where that implication came from? The only friends I've cut off over the years are the drama llamas and the ones who I grew apart from naturally, usually because our values and lifestyles no longer meshed (like when they're going for their third degree in one state and I'm having my third baby in another, and there's just not much time to talk or commonality to do it with).

 

Creekland *asked* what would happen if I lived another few decades and had friends losing their spouses, if I would still be their friends because we were originally couple friends. I answered in the affirmative and remembered some people in our lives I hadn't thought of the first time around who that had actually happened to. When I think of single friends, or friends of only one of us, my brain thinks he younger set. But we have plenty of friends in their fifth, sixth, and seventh decade and some are alone. We are still close with them and the lack of spouse hasn't made a difference.

 

Interestingly there is a bigger gap between younger never marrieds and myself than the older divorced or widowed ones. Maybe something about having walked through partnership and families, regardless of whether they're still around, changes a person. Who knows?

 

But anyway, I resent the implication we would ditch a friend because they weren't married or whatever. That's flat out not true, and never will be. I'll end friendships for all sorts of valid reasons and marital status or age aren't on that list. Sheesh,

Edited April 3, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Jean in Newcastle]

Who mentioned abandoning anyone? I'm totally confused as to where that implication came from? The only friends I've cut off over the years are the drama llamas and the ones who I grew apart from naturally, usually because our values and lifestyles no longer meshed (like when they're going for their third degree in one state and I'm having my third baby in another, and there's just not much time to talk or commonality to do it with).

 

Creekland *asked* what would happen if I lived another few decades and had friends losing their spouses, if I would still be their friends because we were originally couple friends. I answered in the affirmative and remembered some people in our lives I hadn't thought of the first time around who that had actually happened to. When I think of single friends, or friends of only one of us, my brain thinks he younger set. But we have plenty of friends in their fifth, sixth, and seventh decade and some are alone. We are still close with them and the lack of spouse hasn't made a difference.

 

Interestingly there is a bigger gap between younger never marrieds and myself than the older divorced or widowed ones. Maybe something about having walked through partnership and families, regardless of whether they're still around, changes a person. Who knows?

 

But anyway, I resent the implication we would ditch a friend because they weren't married or whatever. That's flat out not true, and never will be. I'll end friendships for all sorts of valid reasons and marital status or age aren't on that list. Sheesh,

.

 

Why in the world would you think that all references in this thread would be directed towards you? I can't keep all these similar threads straight but more than one person said that when they married, their spouse asked them to give up male friends and/or they asked their spouse to give up female friends.

[Guest]

.

 

Why in the world would you think that all references in this thread would be directed towards you? I can't keep all these similar threads straight but more than one person said that when they married, their spouse asked them to give up male friends and/or they asked their spouse to give up female friends.

I was trying to follow the threads too - the only one along those lines I've seen on the last page was off a quoted post of mine so it was a reasonable assumption on my part it and those following the same subject and post were directed at me.

 

My foot stomp wasn't entirely out of left field ;)

[Laura Corin]

Lol I get what you're saying but again, this doesn't always mean someone doesn't trust their spouse. It can merely be that they are protecting an image or protecting their spouse from someone that will make a move which the spouse then has to address. Something that could have been avoided all together had they not set up the one on one interactions outside of work in the first place.

 

I suppose I can't imagine the conversation. 'I don't think you should travel to London and have dinner alone with your colleague. It might look bad, or she might come on to you, and that could be unpleasant to deal with.'

[lovinmyboys]

If I recall correctly, you're still pretty young (comparatively). What happens when you've lived another decade or two and your couple friends start losing their partners via either divorce or death. Do you just drop the males and let them fend for themselves or do they get to remain friends?

 

We were just in FL meeting several older folks - seniors - and it was pretty darn common that one spouse or another had passed away. In the social group males and females were friends - doing things together from sailing to meals to activities both inside and outside the home. It gave a true community feel to it even though few were married. Hubby and I absolutely loved how it felt and were glad we got a taste of it. It's the type of community we want both now and when we grow up.

 

If one doesn't have a sense of community, I could easily see a bit of isolation if/when a partner passes away - esp if groups start not inviting you over anymore.

As the OP in the original thread, I wonder if some of my "unease" is because of the stage of life we are in. I said I was a little annoyed that Dh went out for drinks with a female colleague. Right now we have four youngish children and Dh and I never go out for drinks. I sorta think if he is going to to go get drinks with a female it should be me 😀. When we are older and our kids are raised I don't think I would care at all. In fact I would probably be glad he had other friends. Dh is an extreme extravert and I am not, so as long as I am getting my time with him I don't care who else he spends time with.

 

Dh has been deployed (reservist) for 4 years of our 14 year marriage. None of our couple or male friends have "dropped" me while he was gone. They invited me to do things, helped me get heavy things out of the attic, took my kids places, texted to check on me, etc. But none of my male friends invited me for drinks at a hotel bar while he was gone. I think people can be friends while still not doing everything that friends sometimes do together. I was very glad to still have that community and had friends dropped me it would have been very hard. But, I didn't need a dinner with a male friend to show me I was still included.