Bringing concerns to other parents

[Carrie12345]

Thanks for the relevant feedback!

Edited September 7, 2016 by Carrie12345

[Guest]

I'm sorry for your friend/whoever it is, and I know you're in a tough spot right now.

 

I have only this: IME, in most circumstances, taking care of mother==taking care of her kids.

[Bluegoat]

I think with things like this is can be helpful to thing about what the possible and desirable outcomes are.  So - ideally, and then realistically, what could this mom do to take appropriate action?  In a lot of cases there will only be so many options and what they are may suggest a way forward.

[sassenach]

Is this the family who is living with you?

 

EI is only as good as the follow through. If you are willing to do the work of pursuing EI and bringing kids to appointments, then I would pursue it now. If you aren't, then I would continue to observe mom and wait for her to be in a better place to take on something new. Putting it on her won't do anyone any good if she can't keep up with the follow through.

 

If these kids are over 3, I would hardcore pursue getting them enrolled with services through the public school.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

If mom is not in a good place right now then dumping more stuff on her won't work.  She may run and hide, she may crumple with the overload, she may get mad and reject you altogether, or a whole host of other non-productive reactions.  This is a very tricky position to be in.  Until someone is ready to listen it may not matter how reasonable you sound or how logical your concerns, they won't hear you.

 

Perhaps you could offer to help her do some research to find some ways to help her kids the next time she expresses any sort of worry.  Do it in a casual, non-stressful manner.  Say that you have had to do this type of research before and you may be able to help her find some really useful resources.  Keep it positive.  Smile.  If she agrees, then do that "research" and gently print out and share some of the less scary things you think may be happening as if you had just found these things out while helping with research she agreed to.  AND present her with a first step that is doable (such as you driving her and the kids to an examination with a pediatrician with a typed out list of concerns so she doesn't have to remember everything).  Try to stay as upbeat and positive as possible on early intervention, not gloom and doom and this must be done now or horrible things will happen (not that you would but vocal tone, body language, word choice might accidentally convey your deeper concerns).  Don't panic her.  Come at this from the perspective of you are offering her hope and help, not confirmation of horrible possibilities for her kids.  Hopefully the outcome really will be lots of help for her kids.

 

Best wishes and good luck...

[Anne in CA]

I hate to say this, but given what you already said, you probably know more than others on the board about sensitivity with these issues already. This sounds scary. I know the mom is not okay, but she may surprise you and step up if she knows that there are ways to address the problems. It's not impossible that she's so fragile because she is worried and doesn't know if she can do anything. That is when I'm at my worst for sure. But when I know that I can take steps, I buck up a lot.

[myfunnybunch]

I agree with Sassenach that follow-through is crucial with early intervention. I would add, however, that a good EI agency will be family-supportive and connected to community resources. For an individual overwhelmed momma, sifting through service programs and figuring out how to access them can seem an insurmountable task. It may....should...be that connecting mom with EI will also be the foot in the door to more readily access a variety of community services with the assistance of professionals. 

 

As for sensitivity, anything that starts with "I love you. I love your children. Let's see what we can do to make things easier for all of you," is always a good place to start. :grouphug:

 

 

[heartlikealion]

Remember that if there's a spouse in the picture it is not just the mom you have to think about. My dh is probably still upset at me for taking ds for an eval and just looked at a bill today for it (I think the paper bill is wrong, now I have to call and double check). Anyway, it may affect others, not just the mom. And it sounds like she's not in the best place to do anything with the info so I don't know when you would/should bring it up.

[Guest]

Help the mom first, if at all possible, so she is more equipped to handle the kid issues. Adding more to her plate without helping her cope with what she is already managin is too much, and no matter how crucial early intervention is it won't matter if mom shuts down completely. Better to work with her and these things gradually and have help delayed a few months or even a year than to pile it on her, even lovingly, and end up getting nowhere at all.

[MistyMountain]

I remember a while ago on a message board a mom posted about a very concerning developmental situation and the majority of people told her to not say anything or really sugar coat it if she did. The mom was brushing off signs to not be that bad. She had concerns but did not know the full extent of the problem. It was obvious there were serious delays to this person. She ended up talking about that situation a few years later and she wished she was more direct and blunt because the child was older when he finally got help and so much time was missed and it was something that therapy would have helped. She followed the advice but wish she did not. These things are not easy but it sounds like you will try to do it as sensitively as possible. I would tell her the truth of what you are observing but offer to help get things set up or in whatever way the mom needs if you can.

Edited September 6, 2016 by MistyMountain

[lllll]

nm

Edited November 6, 2016 by cathey

[Ravin]

I would probably turn some motivational interviewing techniques on her, to motivate her to act on her own suspicions and get the ball rolling.

[Carrie12345]

What kinds of "developmental issues" are you talking about, if I may ask?  

 

 

 

.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Carrie12345

[Guest]

I don't really want to go into detail, but I know that leaves a lot up to the imagination. In one instance, it's mostly verbal. Not entirely non-verbal, but "behind" by a good 10 months or so. I've tried to promote some parroting with zero results beyond the words he already has. He does enjoy pointing to things to hear me name them, though!

Well is this a two year old or four year old? Verbal development has huge spans of normal and abnormal, depending on what symptoms go with it.

 

I have a twenty month old with maybe two or three words, inconsistently. He doesn't do much parroting either. But he is developmentally on track otherwise and makes eye contact, builds with toys, smiles and interacts, etc etc. He is a year behind where his sister was at the same age - she had almost 300 words at that point, and was using simple sentences. Both are on the spectrum of normal.

 

I know you have some personal experience with this too, but if mom isn't in a place to assist with this and a doctor hasn't caught it, what's your plan of action? There really isn't much to be done even if it is an emergency developmentally, if the pros aren't seeing it and mom can't or won't fix it.

 

Are we missing something here in terms of pertinent details that makes this a bigger deal than just kids who are delayed while mom is in crisis?

[Janeway]

You have done risk assessment evals on other people's children without their permission?

 

To be honest, that would really bother me. If you approached me and told me you had done any sort of assessment on my children, I would be floored. Even in the public school, for a simple assessment of any sort, the parents have to sign to allow it. 

 

I think you should keep any opinions to yourself unless asked. 

[Carrie12345]

Aaaand here's where I shut back down on the whole detail thing.

 

I have never done anything with or to this child without Mom being present.  I've never once been alone with this child.  I have eyes, a brain, and readily available (non-diagnostic) information that "parents and caregivers" are encouraged to know.  I'm also well-versed in many things, including my limitations.

[Murphy101]

But you aren't THAT child's parent or caregiver.

 

And unless she is hinting that she is open to you taking those roles, it's out of bounds IMO to tell her what you think she should or should not be doing about her kid.

 

I am not sure what your point is beyond trying to convince another mother that you know better for her kid than she does. And true or not - I don't see that ending up helpful to anyone.

 

If the mother needs help, I think that would be a great starting point of action.

[Carrie12345]

But you aren't THAT child's parent or caregiver.

 

And unless she is hinting that she is open to you taking those roles, it's out of bounds IMO to tell her what you think she should or should not be doing about her kid.

 

I am not sure what your point is beyond trying to convince another mother that you know better for her kid than she does. And true or not - I don't see that ending up helpful to anyone.

 

If the mother needs help, I think that would be a great starting point of action.

 

I'm sorry I've given the impression that I'm somehow self-righteous and pushy.  I'm pretty sure I could find MUCH easier ways to stroke my own ego than by turning my life inside out to keep a family safe.

[LucyStoner]

Sometimes the best help you can give a mom is helping her get her children the help they need. Sometimes when one is in the thick of it, they just can't see the big picture. At least where I live there are a myriad of services that could make life, for a family in some degree of crisis, easier. for example, home based services could provide mom with a welcome quasi respite. It sounds as though you are quite close to the situation.

 

My niece and nephew have experienced a large degree of chaos in their FOO. I can't help the adults all that much for reasons I won't enumerate here. But I can make sure that needed SLP and extensive dental work doesn't go neglected. That just makes the chaos that much worse.

Edited September 7, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Murphy101]

I'm sorry I've given the impression that I'm somehow self-righteous and pushy. I'm pretty sure I could find MUCH easier ways to stroke my own ego than by turning my life inside out to keep a family safe.

Keeping them safe usually doesn't have much to do with lecturing them on their child's development. (Lecturing comes across wrong. But I'm tired and word choice isn't great. Call it whatever sounds much nicer.🙂)

 

If you want to help the mom, then I would do so. But if their life is turned inside out right now, then they have way way bigger things to deal with than, for example, possible speech delays.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Murphy101

[Shellydon]

Well is this a two year old or four year old? Verbal development has huge spans of normal and abnormal, depending on what symptoms go with it.

 

I have a twenty month old with maybe two or three words, inconsistently. He doesn't do much parroting either. But he is developmentally on track otherwise and makes eye contact, builds with toys, smiles and interacts, etc etc. He is a year behind where his sister was at the same age - she had almost 300 words at that point, and was using simple sentences. Both are on the spectrum of normal.

 

I know you have some personal experience with this too, but if mom isn't in a place to assist with this and a doctor hasn't caught it, what's your plan of action? There really isn't much to be done even if it is an emergency developmentally, if the pros aren't seeing it and mom can't or won't fix it.

 

Are we missing something here in terms of pertinent details that makes this a bigger deal than just kids who are delayed while mom is in crisis?

 

2-3 words at 20 months isn't normal.  A minimum of 50 words at the 2nd birthday is normal.  Most kids have much more, but the minimum is 50.    I am a rehab specialist for children if I saw you child for a screening, I'd recommend a full speech-language evaluation.

 

[LucyStoner]

Keeping them safe usually doesn't have much to do with lecturing them on their child's development. (Lecturing comes across wrong. But I'm tired and word choice isn't great. Call it whatever sounds much nicer.🙂)

 

If you want to help the mom, then I would do so. But if their life is turned inside out right now, then they have way way bigger things to deal with than, for example, possible speech delays.

I started speech therapy when we were homeless. I was 4. As an adult, I took my nephew in for a large amount of dental work over many visits which was needed due to poverty and consistently ignored dental hygiene when there was much turmoil in his home.

 

Dysfunction and disorder is not made easier by neglecting child needs. In fact, it can worsen the dysfunction/family crisis due to escalating stress levels and hindering the child's ability to catch up later on.

 

Based on what Carrie seems to be hinting at, I am assuming there's a lot more at play than a singular speech delay.

 

ETA- So, my speech impairment was quite significant. Besides me needing SLP, my brother has cerebral palsy. He was in PT and OT when we were homeless. If my parents had waited until *they* weren't in some sort of crisis, I don't know if we would have received the type of help we each needed in time to really help us all that much. Besides the obvious benefits (language for me, mobility for him), such help contributed in different ways to us each leaving the chaos and poverty of our childhoods behind.

Edited September 7, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Caroline]

I started speech therapy when we were homeless. I was 4. As an adult, I took my nephew in for a large amount of dental work over many visits which was needed due to poverty and consistently ignored dental hygiene when there was much turmoil in his home.

 

Dysfunction and disorder is not made easier by neglecting child needs. In fact, it can worsen the issues due to escalating stress levels and hindering the child's ability to catch up later on.

 

Based on what Carrie seems to be hinting at, I am assuming there's a lot more at play than a singular speech delay.

I totally agree with you.

[Murphy101]

I started speech therapy when we were homeless. I was 4. As an adult, I took my nephew in for a large amount of dental work over many visits which was needed due to poverty and consistently ignored dental hygiene when there was much turmoil in his home.

 

Dysfunction and disorder is not made easier by neglecting child needs. In fact, it can worsen the issues due to escalating stress levels and hindering the child's ability to catch up later on.

 

Based on what Carrie seems to be hinting at, I am assuming there's a lot more at play than a singular speech delay.

I don't doubt it. If for no over reason than long term distress crisis mode tends to cause delays in many ways.

 

My point was the over arching goal of helping the mother will be the best short and long term help for the children and also reduce possible causes of delay.

 

A mom that is drowning is unlikely to be able to handle 1-3 times a week or more therapy sessions and dr appts. Heck. There's plenty of parents not in crisis who can't handle all or any of the course of actions their child's eval might call for. It's not fair and it sucks, but it's also a common problem.

[Guest]

2-3 words at 20 months isn't normal. A minimum of 50 words at the 2nd birthday is normal. Most kids have much more, but the minimum is 50. I am a rehab specialist for children if I saw you child for a screening, I'd recommend a full speech-language evaluation.

 

Why are you assuming we didn't look into it?

 

As an initial flag it raised concerns, but upon deeper eval he was deemed as within the normal range in understanding and just not particularly motivated for speech - he tended to use other communication, including verbal noises and gestures, first. He babbles, he points, plays games with family, relates and emotes normally. He is typical in tone and response. No other concerns of any kind, except that he was slow to say intelligible words. I didn't bother clarifying in the OP because it wasn't very relevant, but in the last month he has begun much more parroting and is probably near 20 words, excluding family names - this is a new thing since he was seen. We aren't concerned in a kid who shows no other markers for autism, cognitive delays, birth injuries, or any other speech delay except being very slow to talk.

 

I'm just glad I've been at this game long enough that I don't get alarmed when overly concerned strangers try to helpfully intervene without all the facts. And that is my concern with the OP, too. But only she knows what is going on and may have a relationship with the mother that gives her an opening to help if it is actually needed.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Janeway]

I'm sorry I've given the impression that I'm somehow self-righteous and pushy.  I'm pretty sure I could find MUCH easier ways to stroke my own ego than by turning my life inside out to keep a family safe.

 

I am sure my aunt never thought that of herself. But there we were, at a family reunion. My child was playing in with bubbles. She is a special education teacher. She walks up to me and tells me my child has ASD. Well, I teared up. Not because of him having ASD, but because it was none of her business. Her only business should have been to socialize with us. I already knew he had ASD. But that was my private business. I did not tell her I already knew.

 

What is more is, it is obvious her youngest has ASD. But she has not come to tell me all about her youngest having ASD. Nor has she even mentioned a diagnosis. What should my response be? Yeah, yours does too? No, because I wouldn't do that to someone.

 

If the mom wants some sort of DX and wants your opinion, let her ask. If you are curious if she has thought about it or has considered getting an eval, bring up things about your own children. But that won't necessarily get her to speak up. And it does not matter. It is her private business. 

[Murphy101]

Why are you assuming we didn't look into it?

 

As an initial flag it raised concerns, but upon deeper eval he was deemed as within the normal range in understanding and just not particularly motivated for speech - he tended to use other communication, including verbal noises and gestures, first. He babbles, he points, plays games with family, relates and emotes normally. He is typical in tone and response. No other concerns of any kind, except that he was slow to say intelligible words. In the last month he has begun much more parroting and is probably near 20 words, excluding family names, but this is a new thing since he was seen. We aren't concerned in a kid who shows no other markers for autism, cognitive delays, birth injuries, or any other speech delay except being very slow to talk.

 

I'm just glad I've been at this game long enough that I don't get alarmed when overly concerned strangers try to helpfully intervene without all the facts. And that is my concern with the OP, too. But only she knows what is going on and may have a relationship with the mother that gives her an opening to help if it is actually needed.

I've had that kid too. People confuse average with normal. Average is a very narrow span within a much larger span of normal. A child can be well outside of the average and still fall within normal.

[Guest]

I've had that kid too. People confuse average with normal. Average is a very narrow span within a much larger span of normal. A child can be well outside of the average and still fall within normal.

That's exactly what I was getting at, thank you.

 

And in the same way a kid can be average in many things and overall function but have issues outside of the norm that need addressing. It isn't cut and dry and not something easy to diagnose on the outside, or even a cursory overview. That may not be at all what the OP is trying to do, but I wanted to caution nonetheless.

[Murphy101]

I am sure my aunt never thought that of herself. But there we were, at a family reunion. My child was playing in with bubbles. She is a special education teacher. She walks up to me and tells me my child has ASD. Well, I teared up. Not because of him having ASD, but because it was none of her business. Her only business should have been to socialize with us. I already knew he had ASD. But that was my private business. I did not tell her I already knew.

 

What is more is, it is obvious her youngest has ASD. But she has not come to tell me all about her youngest having ASD. Nor has she even mentioned a diagnosis. What should my response be? Yeah, yours does too? No, because I wouldn't do that to someone.

 

If the mom wants some sort of DX and wants your opinion, let her ask. If you are curious if she has thought about it or has considered getting an eval, bring up things about your own children. But that won't necessarily get her to speak up. And it does not matter. It is her private business.

Ouch. Btdt. I'm sorry that happened. And family is the worse. He is family. You didn't bring him to a family event for an eval or to gather opinions from the parental peanut gallery. Just give the kid a cookie and enjoy them having fun should have been the only goal of the day. (((Hugs)))

 

And yep, I don't share diddly with most people. None of their business and I'm not interested in their usually not actually "helpful" comments either.

[myfunnybunch]

If the mom wants some sort of DX and wants your opinion, let her ask. If you are curious if she has thought about it or has considered getting an eval, bring up things about your own children. But that won't necessarily get her to speak up. And it does not matter. It is her private business. 

 

I completely agree with you about family gathering busybodies, having had similar experiences when my dd was very young.

 

However, I believe this family is living with the OP and the OP is spending a significant amount of time, effort, and energy with this struggling family. That's a bit different than being a hit-and-run busybody at a family reunion.

 

If the kids need help, they need help. That help can, in the long run, lower the amount of stress the family is under. Even just calling to find out what services might be available to the family/child could be useful. Information is valuable. In our area, a child with more than minor delays is typically enrolled free preschool with free transportation, and any necessary additional services (speech/OT/PT) are offered at school while the child is there, for the express purpose of minimizing strain on family's time and resources.

 

Carrie, you're the one right there with this family. If you feel like you need to speak up, then do so. I firmly believe that lovingly saying, "Hey, I've noticed xyz. How can I help?" and offer some specific suggestions (gather information, see what it takes to pursue evaluation, help mom make phone calls, leave it alone) in case she does want help but doesn't know what kind, is an appropriate thing to offer. You'll get a sense right away whether this is something the mom is ready to pursue, whether it's something to tuck in the back pocket for now, or whether she's just not able to process it at all. 

[Shellydon]

Why are you assuming we didn't look into it?

 

As an initial flag it raised concerns, but upon deeper eval he was deemed as within the normal range in understanding and just not particularly motivated for speech - he tended to use other communication, including verbal noises and gestures, first. He babbles, he points, plays games with family, relates and emotes normally. He is typical in tone and response. No other concerns of any kind, except that he was slow to say intelligible words. I didn't bother clarifying in the OP because it wasn't very relevant, but in the last month he has begun much more parroting and is probably near 20 words, excluding family names - this is a new thing since he was seen. We aren't concerned in a kid who shows no other markers for autism, cognitive delays, birth injuries, or any other speech delay except being very slow to talk.

 

I'm just glad I've been at this game long enough that I don't get alarmed when overly concerned strangers try to helpfully intervene without all the facts. And that is my concern with the OP, too. But only she knows what is going on and may have a relationship with the mother that gives her an opening to help if it is actually needed.

 

It really is okay if you are not personally concerned about your speech delayed child, however, my point was to refute your statement that 2-3 inconsistent words at 20 month is within the range of normal.  It isn't.   A wide range of 20 to 100 (or more) words is developmentally normal, but 2 or 3 is not.   2-3 words at 20 months would not flag for Autism at all, just a speech delay.    Being slow to talk is a problem in and of itself for which there is (free!)  help in the U.S. 

[LucyStoner]

I don't doubt it. If for no over reason than long term distress crisis mode tends to cause delays in many ways.

 

My point was the over arching goal of helping the mother will be the best short and long term help for the children and also reduce possible causes of delay.

 

A mom that is drowning is unlikely to be able to handle 1-3 times a week or more therapy sessions and dr appts. Heck. There's plenty of parents not in crisis who can't handle all or any of the course of actions their child's eval might call for. It's not fair and it sucks, but it's also a common problem.

IME, helping parents in flat out crisis mode is often nigh near impossible as the things that put them there may be wholly out of the range of another individual to truly help. Also, sometimes crisis is the long term normal mode for a family. There may well never be a time that things have settled down enough to allow the parents to take point on needed stuff for their child. I am of the mind that the child need not fall years behind or have every adult tooth rot in their mouth because the mom and/or day can't make the child a main priority. I get poverty and family crisis/dysfunction on a pretty visceral level. These are not hypotheticals for me. Parental crisis =/= free pass to long term ignore or allow to worsen significant issues with their children.

 

I'm not saying that the OP needs to demand that the mother seek services. But I know that many parents are shocked when they learn the extent of the services they may be able to get for their child. Also, therapeutic times for their child/ren may help make things less of a crisis mode in the overall family due to the reduced stress or the quasi free time parents may be able to access while their child is getting services in home or on a drop off basis. For example, a child might qualify for a half or more time developmental preschool program which gives mom free time to solve the other issues in her life. Or just not have the stress of being the only caregiver for a couple of hours. Also, if the issues are as severe as hinted, there may be a big benefit to getting on certain waitlists now, before whatever is going on with the children boils over to the point the current level of crisis pales by comparison.

 

Obviously this is not a casual conversation or something one blurts out at a family party. But offering up a list of solid resources and offering assistance in setting things up may be the most help the OP can offer.

Edited September 7, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Guest]

It really is okay if you are not personally concerned about your speech delayed child, however, my point was to refute your statement that 2-3 inconsistent words at 20 month is within the range of normal. It isn't. A wide range of 20 to 100 (or more) words is developmentally normal, but 2 or 3 is not. 2-3 words at 20 months would not flag for Autism at all, just a speech delay. Being slow to talk is a problem in and of itself for which there is (free!) help in the U.S.

I'll bite since I'm curious and our providers were unconcerned - why is being slow to talk, with no deeper global issues, a problem for a toddler who isn't frustrated with communication or acting out in any way? Why is getting targeted therapy from a provider a better choice than the same actions and exercises being utilized by mom?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

((((Carrie)))) I believe 100% that you have not overstepped with this child or with his mother, and that you are sincerely doing everything you can (and lots of things you technically can't) to help them during this moment of crisis. Please just take what's useful from the thread and let the rest go. Hang in there.

[LMD]

Thank you for giving of yourself to help this family. We need more people like you.

 

I would probably look for an opening to gently mention it. If she is lamenting over an outburst/behaviour, then I might kindly ask her if she had thought about exploring causes and if I could help. I would be ready with a list of free services, babysitting and lift offers.

[heartlikealion]

2-3 words at 20 months isn't normal.  A minimum of 50 words at the 2nd birthday is normal.  Most kids have much more, but the minimum is 50.    I am a rehab specialist for children if I saw you child for a screening, I'd recommend a full speech-language evaluation.

 

 

Please be careful with your words. That sounds so black and white. My child is also only saying a handful of words right now and about the same age as Arctic Mama's. The ped. told me that it's not uncommon but it could potentially be a problem. It could also potentially happen within 6 months. So she put in a form with early intervention and they will be in touch to help assess the situation.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by heartlikealion

[MistyMountain]

I disagree with the sentiment to butt out and keep your opinions to yourself. You are trying to help not shove your opinions at people like some suggest. You can see what is in front of you. When a kid could use help it is a good thing for them to get it even with a family in a crisis. I heard many people say that early intervention or preschool services made all the difference to a child and without it they would not be where they are.

Edited September 7, 2016 by MistyMountain

[heartlikealion]

I'll bite since I'm curious and our providers were unconcerned - why is being slow to talk, with no deeper global issues, a problem for a toddler who isn't frustrated with communication or acting out in any way? Why is getting targeted therapy from a provider a better choice than the same actions and exercises being utilized by mom?

 

Our ped listed a speech problem as a possible reason for toddlers not talking much. Dd has had two frenectomies to try to correct her tongue tie and although she was eventually able to breastfeed, the surgeries were not particularly successful (despite all our efforts the healing did not go as hoped). Dh did wonder if her tongue is affecting her ability to talk or not. But in our case, our child is frustrated. She screams and points and only says a few words and babbles.

 

This example is one where perhaps a speech therapist could offer input that the average mom may not know.

Edited September 7, 2016 by heartlikealion

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by cathey

[maize]

It really is okay if you are not personally concerned about your speech delayed child, however, my point was to refute your statement that 2-3 inconsistent words at 20 month is within the range of normal. It isn't. A wide range of 20 to 100 (or more) words is developmentally normal, but 2 or 3 is not. 2-3 words at 20 months would not flag for Autism at all, just a speech delay. Being slow to talk is a problem in and of itself for which there is (free!) help in the U.S.

Except when I had a child at that point early intervention wouldn't even schedule him for an evaluation, they insisted on waiting until he was older.

 

What is actually available in terms of services, and the ease of accessing those services, is unfortunately extremely variable from place to place.

[Tress]

Except when I had a child at that point early intervention wouldn't even schedule him for an evaluation, they insisted on waiting until he was older.

 

What is actually available in terms of services, and the ease of accessing those services, is unfortunately extremely variable from place to place.

Ha!

 

In the Netherlands, the rule is 'a minimum of *5* words at the second birthday'.

I guess Dutch children are just slow, compared to American children ;).

[Guest]

Except when I had a child at that point early intervention wouldn't even schedule him for an evaluation, they insisted on waiting until he was older.

 

What is actually available in terms of services, and the ease of accessing those services, is unfortunately extremely variable from place to place.

That's what we were essentially told - he appears normal, no other issues we can see, but if he is still having speech issues in two years we will do some therapy. Otherwise keep doing exactly what you're doing and watch for these particular things which might indicate other problems.

[Shellydon]

Ha!

 

In the Netherlands, the rule is 'a minimum of *5* words at the second birthday'.

I guess Dutch children are just slow, compared to American children ;).

 

Developmental norms are different for different countries.   In some countries children walk much later because they are carried so much etc.

[Guest]

Ha!

 

In the Netherlands, the rule is 'a minimum of *5* words at the second birthday'.

I guess Dutch children are just slow, compared to American children ;).

That seems much more sensible to me, but maybe I just know a lot of healthy late talkers and am biased. The 'slow' Dutch children are performing just fine by college so I'd say it's gravy ;)

[Shellydon]

I'll bite since I'm curious and our providers were unconcerned - why is being slow to talk, with no deeper global issues, a problem for a toddler who isn't frustrated with communication or acting out in any way? Why is getting targeted therapy from a provider a better choice than the same actions and exercises being utilized by mom?

 

Children that are slow to talk are slow to develop all the other necessary skills that relate to developing strong language and therefore cognition.  Language development is an very complicated process and isn't just as simple as learning vocabulary.  Before a child can use two words together as a phrase, they must have about 50 spoken words.  Before they can begin learning morphemes, they need a vocabulary of 100 ish words and must be putting phrases together.  The same is true for semantic relationships between words.  A child needs a the vocabulary to begin putting words together (agent + action, action + location, action +object etc. ). Delaying these by 6 month or more means that a child that should have been using phrases and developing grammatically correct sentences by 3 is now 4 or even 5.  If basic language development is delayed, then academics are delayed (phonics).   Additionally, there is a strong correlation between delayed language development and later difficulties in logic and reasoning abilities.   In the U.S., ECI services are free to any child that qualifies.  It is quick and easy to get a screening and/or an evaluation done to see if there is an issue.  For kids receiving Medicaid, the services are even easier as the therapist will come to your home.  

Unfortunately, pediatricians receive roughly 2 hours of training on speech and language development and usually are not that great and determining problem/no problem when is comes to language development.  A quick screening by a SLP is all it takes to determine if help is needed.

http://www.home-speech-home.com/language-development-in-toddlers.html

[Jaybee]

I have come to realize that many parents are not as knowledgeable (or as voraciously curious) about what are normal behaviors and normal benchmarks for children to reach as the Hive parents are generally. They are not bad parents, but they take things as they come and do not read and study and analyze these things the same way most of us do. Basically, while they care for their children, they may have other interests. I believe there are ways to kindly and gently point out concerns without being a busybody like some of the examples above. If the parent is already aware or seeking help, great. But if they either sense something is wrong and don't know what to do about it, or they don't know what NT looks like, then helping the parent can possibly make a huge difference in that child's life (and as a result, the parent's as well). Sure, it is a risk (of offending the parent), but perhaps it is worth it.

[Guest]

I admit that sounds extremely reactionary to me - especially when you, yourself, are admitting there are differences by country and yet when we look at fourth, eighth, and twelfth grade achievement those with stronger early intervention programs and therapies are not necessarily performing better academically.

 

So if my kid is a year or two late on phonics, then what? I had an early talker who still didn't read until well after seven. Plenty of words, two years of phonics, developmentally not there. The toddler in question is 'young' developmentally, no doubt, but I just pointed to a fan, split the word into sounds as I repeated it, and he imitated both the f and 'an' sounds while pointing. This kid isn't one who doesn't get logical connections or even show a particular weakness for recognizing parts of spoken language, even though he has been reluctant to imitate them (no structural mouth problems we can find either, thankfully he was never tongue tied or had palate issues).

 

I guess my point is that this is why the fly by diagnostics tend to freak parents out without much fruit. I have no doubt evaluation can be a huge blessing but in our case it yielded squat but some parental stress and lost sleep over a healthy, happy, developing kid.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[lanalouwho]

My oldest son has a language delay. When he was 2, I had no idea what the normal range should have been. If the lady who ran story time at the library hadn't said something to me, I don't think we would have gotten him the help he needed. I did not consider her input as being nosy or obtrusive. She saw him once a week for about 45 minutes, but she knew more about what was developmentally appropriate than I. She just suggested that we get a screening done, gave me ECI's info, and I am very grateful that she did.

The OP is already helping this family. I think this puts her in a position where her input would not be unwelcome, and would likely be appreciated. I would simply suggest an evaluation, and take it one step at a time.

 

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[Shellydon]

I admit that sounds extremely reactionary to me - especially when you, yourself, are admitting there are differences by country and yet when we look at fourth, eighth, and twelfth grade achievement those with stronger early intervention programs and therapies are not necessarily performing better academically.

 

So if my kid is a year or two late on phonics, then what? I had an early talker who still didn't read until well after seven. Plenty of words, two years of phonics, developmentally not there. The toddler in question is 'young' developmentally, no doubt, but I just pointed to a fan, split the word into sounds as I repeated it, and he imitated both the f and 'an' sounds while pointing. This kid isn't one who doesn't get logical connections or even show a particular weakness for recognizing parts of spoken language, even though he has been reluctant to imitate them (no structural mouth problems we can find either, thankfully he was never tongue tied or had palate issues).

 

I guess my point is that this is why the fly by diagnostics tend to freak parents out without much fruit. I have no doubt evaluation can be a huge blessing but in our case it yielded squat but some parental stress and lost sleep over a healthy, happy, developing kid.

 

your child, your choice

 

As I have said previously, I wanted to point that what IS considered normal and what is not.

 

[ktgrok]

I think given that they are living with you, and you are helping them in many ways already, it wouldn't be out of bounds to also say, "hey, about child's speech/behavior/whatever, I don't know all the particulars but was wondering if you were interested in getting any kind of evaluation? They do them free here, through EI, and I'd be happy to get the information for you. I know you've got a ton on your plate, just let me know."

 

Honestly, some of the behavior, speech, etc may be disrupted by the crises they've been in, the new situation, etc. I think it's probably perfectly reasonable to give it a few months and see what happens in a more stable situation. An evaluation right now may not be very accurate anyway, right? But I also think it's reasonable to at least point out your concerns, and let her know help is available, for free.